I found this article well researched and clearly written, so I thought I’d repost it here for all to enjoy. Warren Meyers was one of the first volunteers for the surfacestations.org project and we share blog content semi-regularly. This is a rebuttal to Joe Romm’s (of Climate Progress) claim of a 15°F AGW induced temperature rise by 2100. – Anthony
For several years, there was an absolute spate of lawsuits charging sudden acceleration of a motor vehicle — you probably saw such a story: Some person claims they hardly touched the accelerator and the car leaped ahead at enormous speed and crashed into the house or the dog or telephone pole or whatever. Many folks have been skeptical that cars were really subject to such positive feedback effects where small taps on the accelerator led to enormous speeds, particularly when almost all the plaintiffs in these cases turned out to be over 70 years old. It seemed that a rational society might consider other causes than unexplained positive feedback, but there was too much money on the line to do so.
Many of you know that I consider questions around positive feedback in the climate system to be the key issue in global warming, the one that separates a nuisance from a catastrophe. Is the Earth’s climate similar to most other complex, long-term stable natural systems in that it is dominated by negative feedback effects that tend to damp perturbations? Or is the Earth’s climate an exception to most other physical processes, is it in fact dominated by positive feedback effects that, like the sudden acceleration in grandma’s car, apparently rockets the car forward into the house with only the lightest tap of the accelerator?
I don’t really have any new data today on feedback, but I do have a new climate forecast from a leading alarmist that highlights the importance of the feedback question.
Dr. Joseph Romm of Climate Progress wrote the other day that he believes the mean temperature increase in the “consensus view” is around 15F from pre-industrial times to the year 2100. Mr. Romm is mainly writing, if I read him right, to say that critics are misreading what the consensus forecast is. Far be it for me to referee among the alarmists (though 15F is substantially higher than the IPCC report “consensus”). So I will take him at his word that 15F increase with a CO2 concentration of 860ppm is a good mean alarmist forecast for 2100.
I want to deconstruct the implications of this forecast a bit.
For simplicity, we often talk about temperature changes that result from a doubling in Co2 concentrations. The reason we do it this way is because the relationship between CO2 concentrations and temperature increases is not linear but logarithmic. Put simply, the temperature change from a CO2 concentration increase from 200 to 300ppm is different (in fact, larger) than the temperature change we might expect from a concentration increase of 600 to 700 ppm. But the temperature change from 200 to 400 ppm is about the same as the temperature change from 400 to 800 ppm, because each represents a doubling. This is utterly uncontroversial.
If we take the pre-industrial Co2 level as about 270ppm, the current CO2 level as 385ppm, and the 2100 Co2 level as 860 ppm, this means that we are about 43% through a first doubling of Co2 since pre-industrial times, and by 2100 we will have seen a full doubling (to 540ppm) plus about 60% of the way to a second doubling. For simplicity, then, we can say Romm expects 1.6 doublings of Co2 by 2100 as compared to pre-industrial times.
So, how much temperature increase should we see with a doubling of CO2? One might think this to be an incredibly controversial figure at the heart of the whole matter. But not totally. We can break the problem of temperature sensitivity to Co2 levels into two pieces – the expected first order impact, ahead of feedbacks, and then the result after second order effects and feedbacks.
What do we mean by first and second order effects? Well, imagine a golf ball in the bottom of a bowl. If we tap the ball, the first order effect is that it will head off at a constant velocity in the direction we tapped it. The second order effects are the gravity and friction and the shape of the bowl, which will cause the ball to reverse directions, roll back through the middle, etc., causing it to oscillate around until it eventually loses speed to friction and settles to rest approximately back in the middle of the bowl where it started.
It turns out the the first order effects of CO2 on world temperatures are relatively uncontroversial. The IPCC estimated that, before feedbacks, a doubling of CO2 would increase global temperatures by about 1.2C (2.2F).
Alarmists and skeptics alike generally (but not universally) accept this number or one relatively close to it.
Applied to our increase from 270ppm pre-industrial to 860 ppm in 2100, which we said was about 1.6 doublings, this would imply a first order temperature increase of 3.5F from pre-industrial times to 2100 (actually, it would be a tad more than this, as I am interpolating a logarithmic function linearly, but it has no significant impact on our conclusions, and might increase the 3.5F estimate by a few tenths.) Again, recognize that this math and this outcome are fairly uncontroversial.
So the question is, how do we get from 3.5F to 15F? The answer, of course, is the second order effects or feedbacks. And this, just so we are all clear, IS controversial.
A quick primer on feedback. We talk of it being a secondary effect, but in fact it is a recursive process, such that there is a secondary, and a tertiary, etc. effects.
Lets imagine that there is a positive feedback that in the secondary effect increases an initial disturbance by 50%. This means that a force F now becomes F + 50%F. But the feedback also operates on the additional 50%F, such that the force is F+50%F+50%*50%F…. Etc, etc. in an infinite series. Fortunately, this series can be reduced such that the toal Gain =1/(1-f), where f is the feedback percentage in the first iteration. Note that f can and often is negative, such that the gain is actually less than 1. This means that the net feedbacks at work damp or reduce the initial input, like the bowl in our example that kept returning our ball to the center.
Well, we don’t actually know the feedback fraction Romm is assuming, but we can derive it. We know his gain must be 4.3 — in other words, he is saying that an initial impact of CO2 of 3.5F is multiplied 4.3x to a final net impact of 15. So if the gain is 4.3, the feedback fraction f must be about 77%.
Does this make any sense? My contention is that it does not. A 77% first order feedback for a complex system is extraordinarily high — not unprecedented, because nuclear fission is higher — but high enough that it defies nearly every intuition I have about dynamic systems. On this assumption rests literally the whole debate. It is simply amazing to me how little good work has been done on this question. The government is paying people millions of dollars to find out if global warming increases acne or hurts the sex life of toads, while this key question goes unanswered. (Here is Roy Spencer discussing why he thinks feedbacks have been overestimated to date, and a bit on feedback from Richard Lindzen).
But for those of you looking to get some sense of whether a 15F forecast makes sense, here are a couple of reality checks.
First, we have already experienced about .43 if a doubling of CO2 from pre-industrial times to today. The same relationships and feedbacks and sensitivities that are forecast forward have to exist backwards as well. A 15F forecast implies that we should have seen at least 4F of this increase by today. In fact, we have seen, at most, just 1F (and to attribute all of that to CO2, rather than, say, partially to the strong late 20th century solar cycle, is dangerous indeed). But even assuming all of the last century’s 1F temperature increase is due to CO2, we are way, way short of the 4F we might expect. Sure, there are issues with time delays and the possibility of some aerosol cooling to offset some of the warming, but none of these can even come close to closing a gap between 1F and 4F. So, for a 15F temperature increase to be a correct forecast, we have to believe that nature and climate will operate fundamentally different than they have over the last 100 years.
Second, alarmists have been peddling a second analysis, called the Mann hockey stick, which is so contradictory to these assumptions of strong positive feedback that it is amazing to me no one has called them on the carpet for it. In brief, Mann, in an effort to show that 20th century temperature increases are unprecedented and therefore more likely to be due to mankind, created an analysis quoted all over the place (particularly by Al Gore) that says that from the year 1000 to about 1850, the Earth’s temperature was incredibly, unbelievably stable. He shows that the Earth’s temperature trend in this 800 year period never moves more than a few tenths of a degree C. Even during the Maunder minimum, where we know the sun was unusually quiet, global temperatures were dead stable.
This is simply IMPOSSIBLE in a high-feedback environment. There is no way a system dominated by the very high levels of positive feedback assumed in Romm’s and other forecasts could possibly be so rock-stable in the face of large changes in external forcings (such as the output of the sun during the Maunder minimum). Every time Mann and others try to sell the hockey stick, they are putting a dagger in the heart of high-positive-feedback driven forecasts (which is a category of forecasts that includes probably every single forecast you have seen in the media).
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The hockey stick is a fiction. The feedbacks assumed by the IPCC and other warmists are likewise fictions, created in order to get the predicted catestrophic warming. These feedbacks are not supported by observational evidence, but only through various computer models.
Clearly, the “drivers” are non compus mentus; confused and incompetent.
OT, got the following news from RIGZONE, an oilpatch daily newsletter.
At my company, we worry a LOT about hurricanes (and cyclonic storms generally, worldwide). e.g. during Ike, the cantilver beams along with the derrick and drillfloor just BROKE OFF one of our jackups; strangely, the hull was OK. Cantilver beams are massive welded fabriications on the order of 20 feet deep. They are supposed to carry over 1 million pounds of load at a 25 meter cantilever. Yikes.
So this is really good news:
The team of Professors Philip Klotzbach and William Gray of the Department of Atmospheric Science at Colorado State University (CSU) released their first revision to their initial forecast for the 2009 hurricane season. They now see this year as an average season, down from their prior assessment of it being an active season. The new forecast calls for 12 named storms, down from 14 in their December 10, 2008, initial forecast. These storms will produce six hurricanes and two intense ones, each category lower by one. While the number of named storms is above the 50-year average spanning 1950-2000, the number of hurricanes and intense hurricanes is in line with the historical averages for that period.
Isn’t CO2 still going UP? How could this be?
This reminded of a Three Stooges routine (of course nearly EVERYTHING reminds me of a Three Stooges routine nowadays): Slowly I turn, step-by-step, bit-by-bit, inch-by-inch, until…..
Perhaps the March CO2 number from Mauna Loa has been adjusted to match the new paradigm of “sudden acceleration”.
What this post is telling us, through consciuos or unconsciuos smuggling is:
CO2 greenhouse effect is real, and IT IS NOT.
CO2 as any gas in the atmosphere, when hot, just goes up to release its heat.
Air cannot be heated if you not keep an increased “positive feedback” from something up there called SUN.
Is somebody looking a most convenient way out to change sides?, that would be a surprising “rogue” wave!!
if it’s got a dagger to the heart, why won’t it die?
As an electronics engineer and physicist, I really dig what you’re saying. Thanks for the explanation.
PS No spots for 40 days. Solar flux STUCK at 69. Spotless days looking like SC 6-7 [Dalton] and 14-15 [which included the very cold 1913].
See http://solarcycle24.com/ for a neat chart of 100 day rolling average spotlessness.
Sure looks suspicious to THIS cowboy.
Leif, you out there?? What say you?
One of the clearest and most concise summary expositions I have read on this topic. I happen to agree with the thought process.
An excellent article by Warren Meyers. It should be compulsory reading.
A very good piece. Completely comprehensible and the best bit is that Romm
and Mann contradict each other. That’s science for you: introduce a ‘fiddle
factor’ and you can guarantee it will interfere with someone else’s fiddle factor.
The video is great. Most of the analysis I’ve done is very consistent with this.
I would put the feedback factor at Zero to just slightly negative.
I think the CO2 growth to 860 ppm by 2100 is too high. I’ve got CO2 reaching 635 ppm by 2100 based on the annual growth rate currently of 1.97 ppm per year and a slight acceleration in the trend of 0.002 ppm per year. The IPPC A1B scenario has CO2 at 712 ppm by 2100.
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/796/co2forecastx.png
After many years of reading this kind of thing, I’m still rump-smackingly incredulous that so called Scientists aren’t aware of problems like this. No really, I’m starting to think there’s some kind of conspiracy going on, because so many people can’t be so unbelievably stupid for so long, in the face of evidence to the contrary, can they? Can someone explain to me exactly why people like us, to whom the evidence against AGW is overwhelming, cannot seem to get through to the true believers?
This is very good work – but overall, this is very much similar to using scientific tests to show that the host is not truly transubstantiated.
It will mean nothing to the faithful.
Why is it that carbon dioxide has this logarithmic relationship? If anyone knows.
“Leif, you out there?? What say you?”
I’d bet Leif is busy on the GOES project, set to launch 4/28.
Although the choice of cycle transitions is not explained, looks to this amateur that 23/24 transition is not like 13/14 but very like 4/5–if one may conclude that the sun goes through ‘regimes of activity’ a few cycles in length.
Tipping Points! For God’s sake, man, you forgot the tipping points!
I have read a nice explanation about feedbacks, which translated the Miskolczi theory into more understandable form. Atmosphere, Earth or IR photons do not recognize between the type of the greenhouse gas, whether it is water vapor, methane or CO2. So increase of CO2 should have the same effect as increase of water vapor. During 1998 El Nino, global temps peaked 0,6°C above average, thus evaporation increased as well – so there was equally more greenhouse gases (water vapor) in the atmosphere. If positive feedbacks are correct, more GHG (water vapor) would increased temperature, this further increases evaporation which increases temperature which… but, instead temperatures just dropped back. Miskolczi says the overall GH effect is stable and controlled by water vapor amount. This is confirmed by decreasing humidity up high, which has GH effect. Increasing CO2 will cause proportional dropping of water vapor, thus keeping the GH effect stable. Since CO2 absorbs also in a bit different wavelength, expected effect from doubling is 0,3K.
Does Tsonis’s prediction of near term cooling,then warming,then cooling again take into account a Dalton or Maunder like Minimum and its possible effect on temperature? Or does it just deal with the oceanic oscillations of the last century, with no period of prolonged spotlessness included?
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Just wait until the AGW scientists get the large infusion of cash from the Stimulus bill. The incentive will be even greater to find things that aren’t there.
To repeat what has been said many times, the feedback that the alarmists are relying on is the achilles heal. The other one is the focus on only one factor in the whole global warming issue and that is that Carbon is the cause. Carbon man is becoming Green man. Well we need to turn green man to red in the face man.
Thanks Anthony and keep this going.
The Sun sent us an email, let´s read it!:
“This is an automatic response: Out for vacations. Didn´t take them since I lost a cycle, your comprehension is acknowledged”
Warren,
Romm’s 15 degF number assumes new positive feedback mechanisms become effective. Hence to use this number to question the stability of past climate is not correct. A saucepan can boil milk all over the hob once it reaches 212 degF, but there’s no question it would sit quite happily at 200F for as long as you wished.
For a value around 4 degF, which is consistent with the observed recent warming to date, there is no issue with the stability of the past climate.
REPLY: A saucepan has no feedbacks, only a linear heat source. Other than convection and evaporation, both of which remove heat from the saucepan, we have only radiative heat loss remaining in response to the linear forcing. I think your analogy fails because there is no amplification (positive feedback) in a saucepan system. – Anthony
Walt Meyers has clarified for me the position of Joe Romm. By definition, he is a second order idiot with a high positive feedback.
Present him with any non-alarmist information and your a “big oil shill” or a criminal denier. Present him with any alarmist information and you still may be the same. Only Joe’s vision of a rapidly crumbling world is the truth. If you don’t believe me, ask him.
However, if some geologist are correct there is no way we can get to a doubling of CO2. The ratio of CO2 in air to water is 1-50. If true there is not enough coal and oil in the world to double CO2.
To this old controls designer the hockey stick was the emperor has no clothes moment of AGW analysis. The right side of the hockey stick disproves the left side of the stick. This is understandable since different normalization was used after 1900.
What is not understandable is how (Short of a religious belief.) anyone could believe both sides of the Mann hockey stick.
I was told by an environmentalist that even if CO2 isn’t a problem, CO2 is still the best issue to go after because CO2 is tied to production, and so by reducing CO2 you reduce production and so you “reduce greed”.
There are also a number of other movements that use CO2 as a means to an end. The State of the World Forum is calling on Obama to use Global Warming as the primary reason necessitating a new global order.
There are also many individuals who were born in a generation that wanted to change the world, and who believe that humanity is in a terrible state and pines for some new grand bold transformation. Everyone from spiritual gurus to politicians can use this convenient lie to sell their own agenda.
Unfortunately many truly believe that people object to AGW for purely selfish reasons. They believe that people lack insight into their own materialistic selfish impulses. Unfortunately those that believe this tend to lack insight into their own rather mean spirited shadowy impulses which operate by labeling others as the evil ones. Wanting to change the world is as much an ego trip as being a fatcat CEO. At least the latter has real numbers to worry about. Greenies just have their lofty vague belief system.