The Brussels politics reminds me eerily to a short story in a Stari Diaries written by a Polish sci-fi writer Stanislav Lem. In this story, an astronaut lands on a planet named Pinta, all covered with water. However, Pintians aren’t able to live under water despite the all-planetary propaganda and education.
The astronaut then finds out, that Pinta was once a very dry planet, so that continents were subjected to a grandiose watering plan. And the water went higher and higher, because no-one was able to dissolve the Water Commision or say aloud, that enough is enough. And so the Pintians ended up pretending that an evolution into a higher underwater being was the aim all along…
I just wonder if we will continue to fight the global warming even in the moment when thousands of people will freeze to death in long winters due to the artificially constructed astronomical energy prices…
Of no statistical significance but amusing is that the Arctic Ice extent on the 11December 2008 was the “highest since records began” at 11,678,594 sq Km’s — well since 2002 anyway according to IJIS !!
John Finn
December 13, 2008 4:46 am
Slightly off topic, but does anyone have any comments on this GISS plot of Godthaab (Greenland) temperature data: http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=431042500000&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1
Apart from the fact that the late 1930s were warmer than to-day, there seems, to me, to be an issue with the actual data (see: monthly data as text link). For almost 40 years, between 1960 and ~1997, there is virtually a complete record (just one month missing data in Jan 1982). Since 1998, there are almost 20 missing months.
I don’t go in for conspiracy theories, but why is this? Remember that this is the station with just about the longest record in Greenland, and that Greenland, itself, is seen as a key region in the AGW argument. Yet, in this recent era of heightened debate, record-keeping here has become sloppier and more irregular than ever (since ~1900 at least).
There might be good reason for the missing data. Is it because the station data is considered unreliable? Does anybody know?
Adam Soereg
December 13, 2008 5:10 am
Motto in Hungarian: Klímaváltozás volt, klímaváltozás van, és mindig is lesz klímaváltozás. The climate has changed, the climate is changing, and the climate always will change.
We can’t stop it or prevent it. Say no to alarmism, whatever is the ‘consensus view’ at the moment (I mean Ice Age or AGW).
Alan the Brit
December 13, 2008 5:14 am
Deja Vu?
Didn’t one lump of iron called Titanic sink after striking a southbound icceberg in April 1912, with an unusually high number of icebergs being reported, suggesting warmer condidtions back even then. What’s this? Warmer waters in 1939 again, careful some body might wrongly conclude that there may be a pattern emerging, don’t want that happening do we! Better sqaush it quickly.
Rossa, don’t worry about not being able to change if Laws are passed to lock us in to a system. The governments have just changed all the rules of the PnDREU (Peoples non-Democratic Republic of the European Union) to try & turn back the tide of recessiion, so they are just as likley to change their minds & renage of any agreements if necessary, it’s just good old human nature!
And as for lead poisoning, yes it is trace in piped water in old lead pipe supplied houses, but as a trace element it is the build up over a long time that causes a problem. This we know. Just like rat poison to patients with heart problems, we don’t aim to kill them, just to alleviate their problem it’s in small doses! How many times did I as a child suck on my lead painted toy soldiers & cars, gnaw on the sides of our lead-based painted cots when teething, etc. Many of us at 45++ did so, & how many of us died or even suffered from lead poisoning, that was probably the beginning of the “Precautionary Principle” with all the other “Scary-Stories”! You never know though, that could go a long way to explaining Dr James Hansen & Al Gore, WWF, FoE, Greenwar&peace et al!!!!!!
I am still waiting for little green men from Mars to wipe us out from the 1930’s, the nuclear war to destroy us all in the 50’s & 60’s, the bio-chemical war or escaped bug to do ditto in the 60’s & 70’s, Global Cooling & the Iceage of the 70’s, the asteroid that blasts the Earth & kills everything – three movies on that one already done, (me thinks there’s still time for that one to do the rounds regardless of how real it is or isn’t – it’s started over here already in case the money dries up), the killer bug that eats us (Brits only) alive in the 90’s because they ran out of real news to print – around 20 people a year die from this bug in the UK but of course suddenly it could run riot, global cooling protagonists do an about face & unashamedly become global warming protagonists without so much as a by-your-leave. They finally seem to have found something to convince people is really happening to oppresss freedom & humanity! Only it isn’t happening on plan.
Elphon peedupon,
Harold denny was the moscow correspondent for the NYT starting in 1934. He also was pro Soviet in his writings which would mirror this particular article. I do not know whether the article is bona fide or not but but Denny was a correspondent stationed for the Times in Moscow. Later, he became a war correspondent.
What happens ? Sea-ice lose 500 000 km2 today on arctic-roos.org !!! 2008 line was touching average line few hours ago.
(bad level in english, sorry, I did my best)
Brett Smith
December 13, 2008 5:47 am
Harold Denny was a prolific writer of WWII for the New York Times.
DB2
December 13, 2008 5:59 am
Speaking of Arctic ice, there seems to be a discrepancy between….
There has been a change at the Norwegian site http://arctic-roos.org/observations/satellite-data/sea-ice/ice-area-and-extent-in-arctic
on Friday the 12th. I look at the ice area graph almost every day and on Thursday the black line for 2008 was right up against the 29-year average, well inside the grey one-standard-deviation area.
Today the 2008 line is suddenly outside the grey band and now has never been in it at all this year. Somebody changed something.
Bill Illis
December 13, 2008 6:09 am
The Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation explains the NH sea ice changes very well. (I looked at a daily sea ice numbers back to 1972 and the peak sea ice was in 1977 around the time the AMO cycle hit the bottom and started back up again.)
I note there is a large spike in the AMO in 1937 which probably influenced this story. http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3383/amoanomalynp6.png
. . . I rather think that this ‘article’ has been invented. It’s by Harold Denny. Harold DENY? It features Professor Berg. IceBerg?
Perhaps having a the Berg surname got him interested is icebergs when he was a kid. How far did you look for related stories? I spent a couple minutes but only found for-pay articles about the Syedoff from the NYT:
January 17, 1940: SYEDOFF TO BE RETURNED; Icebreaker Reported Little Hurt by Pressure of Polar Pack http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20617FD3A54107A93C5A8178AD85F448485F9
January 31, 1940: SYEDOFF IS HOME AT LAST; Russian Icebreaker at Murmansk After 27-Month Odyssey http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40D1EF93855117A93C3AA178AD85F448485F9
How has the surname Peedupon influenced your life? You seem to look over your shoulder than taking the time to answer your own questions.
Mike Lewis
December 13, 2008 6:34 am
Can’t verify other sources yet but Harold Denny was a reporter for the New York Times during World War II and died in 1945, so it is possible he submitted this story in ’38.
The Graphs at Artic Roos changed last night. The most notable is the Ice Area with the standard deviation(lower left). Yesterday with a date of 12/10 the 2008 line was in contact with the 79-07 line. Today with a date of 12/11 its been moved completely outside the standard deviation(gray) area. I wonder why. Maybe it should be Spelled Hansen instead on Nansen.
borat
December 13, 2008 6:45 am
great cheering sovietland lighthouse for make benefit all advanced mankind!
One source of data I have not heard anyone talking about on this site or anyplace else I can find is the ocean data from the ARGO project, the worldwide array of robot floats that was completed about a year or so ago. This is a project with international support and I would think by now some of this data would be starting to tell us something about ocean temperature trends, currents and salinity. The home site is http://www.argo.net/ The site and the system itself is not meant to do analysis of the data collected, but rather to provide an international data base for anyone it who does. It was originally initiated to study global warming. Could it be that the lack of media coverage is due to the fact that it hasn’t shown any GW so far? Would be interested to know if any of the readers of this site have seen any referances to ARGO data.
Below is an excerpt from a post on my blog from Oct. 2. Although it’s a very short article it was printed over 50 years earlier than the one in Anthony’s post, and also this one explicitly says that this gentleman believes glacier retreat is due to the “prolonged action of man on the earth”:
I may have unearthed the very first documented evidence of an anthropogenic global warming alarmist. A “Patient Zero”? Perhaps.
In the May 18, 1884 edition of The New York Times, there is tucked deeply away in a column titled, ironically, “Scientific Gossip” the following passage:
“Roberto Paolo considers that the glaciers of the Alps were developed during a period of a lower mean Summer temperature than that of the present, and that they are retreating not so much, however, by cosmic or telluric causes as through meteorological changes depending partly on the prolonged action of man on the earth.”
Read it all on my blog… http://gorelied.blogspot.com/2008/10/new-york-times-may-18-1884-times-notes.html
DB2 (05:59:32) I concur. I also check that site frequently and just checked to confirm. I notice the very same change.
hunter
December 13, 2008 8:36 am
As AGW alarmists continue to be wrong, it is highly likely that they will (or have) cooked the books.
I urge those with resources to take screen shots of data as frequently as possible and to archive them. We have already seen the reaction of the GISS managers to being found out over their bad October data. We now know from NASA that the GISS product is influenced by bias. It is not unreasonable that other product managers would consider more ‘polishing’ to make sure their products are in compliance with Hansen and IPCC goals. I think many people, looking at GISS as it is today, would think it reasonable to believe it is already happening, in fact.
The AGW leadership is not going to gently give up in the face of the lack of facts. Like religious fanatics, they will find artifacts to bolster their claims, even if they do not exist.
We already see this to a certain extent when Gore makes crazy claims about the causes of storms, or AGW believers make silly statements like the UK Met office makes about weather. Once started on that path, outright fabrication of evidnce is only a short rationalization away.
The Brussels politics reminds me eerily to a short story in a Stari Diaries written by a Polish sci-fi writer Stanislav Lem. In this story, an astronaut lands on a planet named Pinta, all covered with water. However, Pintians aren’t able to live under water despite the all-planetary propaganda and education.
The astronaut then finds out, that Pinta was once a very dry planet, so that continents were subjected to a grandiose watering plan. And the water went higher and higher, because no-one was able to dissolve the Water Commision or say aloud, that enough is enough. And so the Pintians ended up pretending that an evolution into a higher underwater being was the aim all along…
I just wonder if we will continue to fight the global warming even in the moment when thousands of people will freeze to death in long winters due to the artificially constructed astronomical energy prices…
ElphonPeedupon, you wrote: “The ship the scientists are on is almost at the North Pole, but, bearing in mind that it’s 1938, they’re somehow providing detailed data to Berg and Zupoff (can’t say I get that one) with sufficient detail for these guys to predict global trends.”
Why wouldn’t they be able to do that??? The Russians were seriously exploring and studying the Arctic in the 1930’s by air and sea.
You also wrote: “Finally, there’s a reference to a guy being made Chief of Artic Aviation of the Northern Sea Route Administration (AKA: the NorthWest Passage). 1938? I don’t think so.”
Here is a link that describes that Soviet government organization, founded in 1932. Lots of information on Russia’s exploration of the Northwest Passage in this book.
http://books.google.com/books?id=TpfSpUVmemAC&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=Chief+of+Artic+Aviation+of+the+Northern+Sea+Route+Administration&source=bl&ots=wjktVqetWg&sig=7xgujL13HxQA-4kIDe_rP_VDoVs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result#PPA53,M1
And here is a pic of the guy:
http://www.visualrian.com/images/item/144548
Since you mentioned DENY, I’ll mention DENIAL.
Of no statistical significance but amusing is that the Arctic Ice extent on the 11December 2008 was the “highest since records began” at 11,678,594 sq Km’s — well since 2002 anyway according to IJIS !!
Slightly off topic, but does anyone have any comments on this GISS plot of Godthaab (Greenland) temperature data:
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=431042500000&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1
Apart from the fact that the late 1930s were warmer than to-day, there seems, to me, to be an issue with the actual data (see: monthly data as text link). For almost 40 years, between 1960 and ~1997, there is virtually a complete record (just one month missing data in Jan 1982). Since 1998, there are almost 20 missing months.
I don’t go in for conspiracy theories, but why is this? Remember that this is the station with just about the longest record in Greenland, and that Greenland, itself, is seen as a key region in the AGW argument. Yet, in this recent era of heightened debate, record-keeping here has become sloppier and more irregular than ever (since ~1900 at least).
There might be good reason for the missing data. Is it because the station data is considered unreliable? Does anybody know?
Motto in Hungarian: Klímaváltozás volt, klímaváltozás van, és mindig is lesz klímaváltozás.
The climate has changed, the climate is changing, and the climate always will change.
We can’t stop it or prevent it. Say no to alarmism, whatever is the ‘consensus view’ at the moment (I mean Ice Age or AGW).
Deja Vu?
Didn’t one lump of iron called Titanic sink after striking a southbound icceberg in April 1912, with an unusually high number of icebergs being reported, suggesting warmer condidtions back even then. What’s this? Warmer waters in 1939 again, careful some body might wrongly conclude that there may be a pattern emerging, don’t want that happening do we! Better sqaush it quickly.
Rossa, don’t worry about not being able to change if Laws are passed to lock us in to a system. The governments have just changed all the rules of the PnDREU (Peoples non-Democratic Republic of the European Union) to try & turn back the tide of recessiion, so they are just as likley to change their minds & renage of any agreements if necessary, it’s just good old human nature!
And as for lead poisoning, yes it is trace in piped water in old lead pipe supplied houses, but as a trace element it is the build up over a long time that causes a problem. This we know. Just like rat poison to patients with heart problems, we don’t aim to kill them, just to alleviate their problem it’s in small doses! How many times did I as a child suck on my lead painted toy soldiers & cars, gnaw on the sides of our lead-based painted cots when teething, etc. Many of us at 45++ did so, & how many of us died or even suffered from lead poisoning, that was probably the beginning of the “Precautionary Principle” with all the other “Scary-Stories”! You never know though, that could go a long way to explaining Dr James Hansen & Al Gore, WWF, FoE, Greenwar&peace et al!!!!!!
I am still waiting for little green men from Mars to wipe us out from the 1930’s, the nuclear war to destroy us all in the 50’s & 60’s, the bio-chemical war or escaped bug to do ditto in the 60’s & 70’s, Global Cooling & the Iceage of the 70’s, the asteroid that blasts the Earth & kills everything – three movies on that one already done, (me thinks there’s still time for that one to do the rounds regardless of how real it is or isn’t – it’s started over here already in case the money dries up), the killer bug that eats us (Brits only) alive in the 90’s because they ran out of real news to print – around 20 people a year die from this bug in the UK but of course suddenly it could run riot, global cooling protagonists do an about face & unashamedly become global warming protagonists without so much as a by-your-leave. They finally seem to have found something to convince people is really happening to oppresss freedom & humanity! Only it isn’t happening on plan.
Elphon peedupon,
Harold denny was the moscow correspondent for the NYT starting in 1934. He also was pro Soviet in his writings which would mirror this particular article. I do not know whether the article is bona fide or not but but Denny was a correspondent stationed for the Times in Moscow. Later, he became a war correspondent.
What happens ? Sea-ice lose 500 000 km2 today on arctic-roos.org !!! 2008 line was touching average line few hours ago.
(bad level in english, sorry, I did my best)
Harold Denny was a prolific writer of WWII for the New York Times.
Speaking of Arctic ice, there seems to be a discrepancy between….
There has been a change at the Norwegian site
http://arctic-roos.org/observations/satellite-data/sea-ice/ice-area-and-extent-in-arctic
on Friday the 12th. I look at the ice area graph almost every day and on Thursday the black line for 2008 was right up against the 29-year average, well inside the grey one-standard-deviation area.
Today the 2008 line is suddenly outside the grey band and now has never been in it at all this year. Somebody changed something.
The Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation explains the NH sea ice changes very well. (I looked at a daily sea ice numbers back to 1972 and the peak sea ice was in 1977 around the time the AMO cycle hit the bottom and started back up again.)
I note there is a large spike in the AMO in 1937 which probably influenced this story.
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3383/amoanomalynp6.png
Ahhh, vintage alarmism…
ElphonPeedupon (01:49:29) :
Perhaps having a the Berg surname got him interested is icebergs when he was a kid. How far did you look for related stories? I spent a couple minutes but only found for-pay articles about the Syedoff from the NYT:
January 17, 1940: SYEDOFF TO BE RETURNED; Icebreaker Reported Little Hurt by Pressure of Polar Pack
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20617FD3A54107A93C5A8178AD85F448485F9
January 31, 1940: SYEDOFF IS HOME AT LAST; Russian Icebreaker at Murmansk After 27-Month Odyssey
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40D1EF93855117A93C3AA178AD85F448485F9
How has the surname Peedupon influenced your life? You seem to look over your shoulder than taking the time to answer your own questions.
Can’t verify other sources yet but Harold Denny was a reporter for the New York Times during World War II and died in 1945, so it is possible he submitted this story in ’38.
Elphonpeedupon,
You must have not searched very hard at all. From the New York Times website – Harold Denny was a real reporter….amazing what our biases will make us see.
Just one page of many on his reports:
http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?query=harold+denny&srchst=p&d=&o=&v=&c=&sort=closest&n=10&dp=0&daterange=period&year1=1851&mon1=09&day1=18&year2=1980&mon2=12&day2=31&frow=40
As I’m a cheap son of a gun, and will not pay for all these articles, there are more on this very issue.
This one has to do with the Soviets and the Northwest passage:
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0D17FC3958177A93C5A8178DD85F408385F9&scp=117&sq=harold+denny&st=p
Failed to post the link properly:
http://www.54warcorrespondents-kia-30-ww2.com/government_file.html
The Graphs at Artic Roos changed last night. The most notable is the Ice Area with the standard deviation(lower left). Yesterday with a date of 12/10 the 2008 line was in contact with the 79-07 line. Today with a date of 12/11 its been moved completely outside the standard deviation(gray) area. I wonder why. Maybe it should be Spelled Hansen instead on Nansen.
great cheering sovietland lighthouse for make benefit all advanced mankind!
PaulHClark (02:15:55) :
And it’s the coldest start to winetr for 30 years here in the UK. But, of course, the good old met office has to remind us it’s the 10th warmest year on record!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1094190/Flood-warnings-issued-Britain-shivers-coldest-start-winter-30-years.html
I can’t help but feel that if it wasn’t for the warmer air coming off the Atlantic, this would have been one hell of a snowfall…
One source of data I have not heard anyone talking about on this site or anyplace else I can find is the ocean data from the ARGO project, the worldwide array of robot floats that was completed about a year or so ago. This is a project with international support and I would think by now some of this data would be starting to tell us something about ocean temperature trends, currents and salinity. The home site is http://www.argo.net/ The site and the system itself is not meant to do analysis of the data collected, but rather to provide an international data base for anyone it who does. It was originally initiated to study global warming. Could it be that the lack of media coverage is due to the fact that it hasn’t shown any GW so far? Would be interested to know if any of the readers of this site have seen any referances to ARGO data.
Below is an excerpt from a post on my blog from Oct. 2. Although it’s a very short article it was printed over 50 years earlier than the one in Anthony’s post, and also this one explicitly says that this gentleman believes glacier retreat is due to the “prolonged action of man on the earth”:
I may have unearthed the very first documented evidence of an anthropogenic global warming alarmist. A “Patient Zero”? Perhaps.
In the May 18, 1884 edition of The New York Times, there is tucked deeply away in a column titled, ironically, “Scientific Gossip” the following passage:
“Roberto Paolo considers that the glaciers of the Alps were developed during a period of a lower mean Summer temperature than that of the present, and that they are retreating not so much, however, by cosmic or telluric causes as through meteorological changes depending partly on the prolonged action of man on the earth.”
Read it all on my blog…
http://gorelied.blogspot.com/2008/10/new-york-times-may-18-1884-times-notes.html
Well, Harold Denny is certainly real, and was in Russia at that time:
http://books.google.com/books?id=BUg-lWpZcsIC&pg=PA475&lpg=PA475&dq=harold+denny+new+york+times+1938&source=bl&ots=bb_fvZUnNv&sig=XqKivjm8_jBHpxSGCKLJmTD5Di0&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,759286,00.html
and Vodopyanoff/ov was also quite real.
http://www.vor.ru/Events/program45.html
So it this is a fake, it’s a well researched fake….
Is this the article on the NYT pages?
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40D14F63C5F1B7A93C0A81789D95F4C8385F9&scp=1&sq=1938%20arctic%20syedoff&st=cse
DaveE.
DB2 (05:59:32) I concur. I also check that site frequently and just checked to confirm. I notice the very same change.
As AGW alarmists continue to be wrong, it is highly likely that they will (or have) cooked the books.
I urge those with resources to take screen shots of data as frequently as possible and to archive them. We have already seen the reaction of the GISS managers to being found out over their bad October data. We now know from NASA that the GISS product is influenced by bias. It is not unreasonable that other product managers would consider more ‘polishing’ to make sure their products are in compliance with Hansen and IPCC goals. I think many people, looking at GISS as it is today, would think it reasonable to believe it is already happening, in fact.
The AGW leadership is not going to gently give up in the face of the lack of facts. Like religious fanatics, they will find artifacts to bolster their claims, even if they do not exist.
We already see this to a certain extent when Gore makes crazy claims about the causes of storms, or AGW believers make silly statements like the UK Met office makes about weather. Once started on that path, outright fabrication of evidnce is only a short rationalization away.