I’ve held off as long as I can with commenting on the presedential election, as it tends to suck all the oxygen right out of the room, but this issue needs to be aired. There’s more to Obama’s energy plan than bankrupting coal power plants. He also intends to make energy prices “skyrocket”:
This doesn’t sound sustainable to me. Hat tip to Jon Jewitt.
UPDATE: here is video from the San Francisco Chronicle of the actual interview:
Hat tip to Fred for this one.
If the US Economy Tanks over the next presidential term – will the foreign wealth funds from China, Saudi, etc keep putting money in by buying US Government Bonds, etc…
Even the democrats can’t spend money they don’t have.
I think that the average US citizen is smarter and tougher than some people give them credit for. However they have been in-attentive to the Democracy that they are living in. It is so easy to take the priveledge of liberty for granted and forget that it needs constant work to stop other people taking it away.
A short sharp jolt of economic pain is very likely to wake them up and get them concentrating – and then watch out!.
The next 4 years may provide a wonderful innoculation against pseudoscience and faith in Government.
Pop Quiz: Who said the following?
An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry. See End
I won’t add to the quarrel, but guess who I voted for after reading the following.
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned – this is the sum of good government.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
If the present Congress errs in too much talking, how can it be otherwise in a body to which the people send one hundred and fifty lawyers, whose trade it is to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour.
It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence.
Thomas Jefferson
Anthony,
No need for anyone to put words in the candidate’s mouth, or take his statements out of context. This man is a lawyer who understands the meaning of words, and chooses words carefully, and he describes himself perfectly in his own words. It was he who mentioned his muslim religion to George Stepahnopoulis, and who said there is nothing as rousing as the muslim call to prayer. Moamar Khadafi described him as a Brother; one of us, and the Islamic world is ecstatic about the possibility of him winning the White House.
And this is a perfect thread for people to get their thoughts out, so we can address the science issues elsewhere without distraction. A good decision on your part Anthony.
George
I think it was a mistake to make a political post in a science-based blog. The point was made that science has become political. I don’t understand how that makes it OK. Shouldn’t we be striving to separate science from politics and emotional bias?
Now I’m bummed-out because this blog slipped on notch on my respect-o-meter. Oh well, it still rates pretty well.
davidgmills (15:03:38)
‘Obama’s managed to make both sides unhappy with his energy policy so his policy will probably be straight down the middle.’
I would say neither side trust the man. It looks to me that he can be bought by the highest bidder.
Coal will need to be replaced at some point by someone. Natural Gas is the most likely alternative, but wind and solar will play a role as well. It’s a matter of reinventing and plain inventing new cleaner sources of energy. I understand that the G.O.P. thinks we can just do whatever to whoever, whenever we want, but that is not reality.
Let’s wake up America and figure out that there are some major problems ahead of not only our country, but globally. Fortunately we are electing a man that can remember what he said yesterday as opposed to McCain. Who’s best judgment has been to nominate a V.P. that I’m pretty sure dyes her hair brown so that she does come across as a complete air head.
Mary Hinge (12:00:23) Saddam bluffed that he had WMD in order to keep the Persians at bay. Everyone, including Joe Wilson, believed that Saddam had WMD. Joe Wilson, in a 2/6/03 op-ed in the LATimes said we shouldn’t invade Iraq for fear that Saddam would use his chemical and biological WMD on our troops. Yeah, that Joe Wilson, Valerie Plame’s husband.
Duelfer and Rossett have demonstrated that Saddam and the will and the means to get WMD. Had we not intervened, he would have them by now.
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Anyone who has worked at a National Lab in the last 40 years knows that since Proxmire, science and politics are completely inseparable. They are funded by Congress.
I put my protest bumper sticker on the car last night – “Palin 2012.” McCain will go down in history as having run the worst Republican campaign in modern history. Mondale would be proud.
I can’t wait until Obama starts telling my community what we have to do to make ourselves acceptable to Europeans The courtship phase is over.
[…] THE MESSIAH CONTRA COAL: Please connect the dots; Obama’s energy plan: bankrupt coal power plants, skyrocketing electricity rates, brownouts ahead …. […]
Vaughn (16:28:38) :
“I understand that the G.O.P. thinks we can just do whatever to whoever, whenever we want, but that is not reality. ”
I have no idea where this even comes from. But I don’t believe it comes from any form of research…sounds kind of like a MSM soundbite to me.
“Let’s wake up America and figure out that there are some major problems ahead of not only our country, but globally. ”
I think that’s what’s been said for several years now regarding AGW, or ACC, whatever the new initials are.
“Fortunately we are electing a man that can remember what he said yesterday …as opposed to McCain.”
Yes..the guy who was going to visit ALL 57 states to make sure they all got the message.
“Who’s best judgment has been to nominate a V.P. that I’m pretty sure dyes her hair brown so that she does come across as a complete air head.”
Ok…I’d say that pretty much sums up the level of intelligence you’ve brought to the table :*)
Thanks for playing the home game.
Jim
To the Anti-Sceptics who sometimes visit this blog.
Doubt is a virtue as it helps you avoid the scams and schemes of conmen and charlatans and to honestly assess your own beliefs and behaviours.
Effective Scepticism is the systematic application of Doubt to (1) identify Assumptions. (2) Question and Test Assumptions, and (3) Weed out the Assumptions that don’t stand up in the face of rigourous multi-faceted testing.
We all carry around untested assumptions that form part of our world view and hence part of our indentity.
Testing our assumptions is hard work, and can be painful and frightening when dearly held beliefs are found to be wanting. Hence the general lack of popularity for actually doing scepticism.
The alternative is to leave yourself open to self-deception and the well spun schemes of conmen, charlatans and other intra-species predators…
We live in a culture that valorises belief and in which doubt is pretty much a four letter word. This plays into the hands of those who are happy to manipulate others for gain.
Watch out for belief and the quest for certainty as there is little that is truly certain in this world and certainty is often little more than a security blanket to mask fear.
I would suggest a balance of healthy doubt coupled with a strong sense of faith in yourself and the underlying values of personal liberty and independence that underpin your (US) community as providing an effective stance for dealing with lifes uncertainties.
Well, I am not holding out much hope. OTOH, none of the McCain must-win states have been called yet, so it ain’t over. We’ll see.
Evan Jones,
You are obviously a better historian than I. You are right, Cheney-Bush are not alone on the list of potential tyrrants!
Thanks for the insight.
John D.
This is a bit off topic, but I’m hoping that someone with more scientific credentials can help me answer this. One thing Obama said is that he would work to classify CO2 as a ‘dangerous pollutant’. Well, over on TTAC there is a story about some MIT research that shows the possibility of using magnesium rich rock formations to absorb airborne CO2. Here is the link. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/rocks-in-your-tailpipe/
Assuming the research proves true, is the follow equation correct (posted from the same discussion)?
————-
sean362880 :
November 4th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Um…no.
Mass balance:
(2400 grams C / gallon)* (10 gal/tank )* (84 g/mol MgC03 / 12 g/mol C) = 168,000 g.
So you’re going to remove 168 kg of MgCO3 from your tailpipe after every 10-gallon tank? That’s neglecting the weight of all the other crap that was part of the raw mineral.
I think this is why they’re going for industrial application only.
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Patrick Henry (06:39:33) :
No, I wouldn’t hire James Hansen.
Hair dye??? My, my how the conversation has deteriorated. On both sides. I happen to like Sarah Palin. I don’t agree with her at all. But she is one helluva gal. Her biggest problem is that she has a blind spot and doesn’t realize it (I can be nasty to whomever I want and it won’t bite me in the butt kind of blind spot). Bill Clinton had a similar blind spot (I can play around with any toy I want and it won’t bite me in the butt kind of blind spot). They both suffer from “the rules are made for others, not for me” mentality. But as with Clinton who once had potential and then blew it, I think Sarah has potential, as long as she doesn’t blow it. Once she discovers her blind spot she will become a better world class leader. Alas, I think her ego will get in the way and somewhere down the line, she will blow it. But if she manages not to do that I will still not agree with her on many, many issues. However, she has guts and leadership qualities I admire.
this thread is a peculiar diversion for WUWT – but i applaud Sir Anthony’s statemenship in countering below-the-belt attacks – and my hat is off to Pamela Gray!
a Canadian not-born-there
For some needed relief, here’s McCain getting savaged by Obama, who leads off the debate [and note that the moderator clearly favors Obama]: clicky
It is 2.30pm 5th November here in Australia and I see that the American Empire has just gone down the plug -hole. The new world empire is to the north of us:China! Thanks for your help in WWII. We will not forget, so give us a call soon for us to return the favour (Taiwan shoulds be taken over very soon).
I can’t help but wonder if the cheering audience in the background of this clip is insane, completely daft, or just doesn’t understand what he is saying. Same goes for the press corps who covered Obama.
But at least we got thousands of critically important news stories about Tina Fey, Palin’s wardrobe, her daughter’s dating habits and non-Troopergate. Obama’s KGB proposal really isn’t important by comparison.
“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”
OK, people who live in the US. It is an Obama term.
As far as the global warming issue goes if I were a US citizen
I would be looking to find people in his administration who would listen to correct science.
I would try to expand the spread of information to the scientific community: many scientists trust the scientific integrity of scientists outside their field. If they become aware of how things are in IPCC climatology they will join the skeptics in droves.
And for those of you on the losing side, cheer up. What you call socialism in the US is barely liberal for Europe, the US is a great country and it was necessary that the pendulum should shift towards taking care of the hoi polloi instead of just the corporations, which was the Bush administration’s aim.
Lets get back to science.
And on that note, I’ll close this thread. Back to Science.