Two Stories for you, one about the snow itself, and the other about climate law being debated and passed in the middle of the unusual snow.- Anthony
London has first October snow in over 70 years
From the Guardian
Cold snap causes flight cancellations while a motorway accident kills one driver and causes severe disruption
Parts of south-east England had more than an inch of snow last night while London experienced its first October snowfall in more than 70 years as winter conditions arrived early.
Snow settled on the ground in parts of the capital last night as temperatures dipped below zero. A Met Office spokeswoman said it was London’s first October snow since 1934.
For greater south-east of England it was the first October snow since 1974. High Wycombe in Buckinghamshire had 3cm (1.2 inches). One of the coldest temperatures recorded was -4.1C in Benson, Oxfordshire.
“It is unusual to have snow this early,” the Met spokeswoman said. “In October 2003 sleet and snow was recorded in Northern Ireland, Wales, south-west, north-west and north-east England and the Midlands, but it was mainly over higher ground.”
read the entire story here
How Parliament passed the Climate Bill (in spite of the weather)
Posted in Government, 29th October 2008 12:35 GMT
Excerpt: Snow fell as the House of Commons debated Global Warming yesterday – the first October fall in the metropolis since 1922. The Mother of Parliaments was discussing the Mother of All Bills for the last time, in a marathon six hour session.
In order to combat a projected two degree centigrade rise in global temperature, the Climate Change Bill pledges the UK to reduce its carbon dioxide emissions by 80 per cent by 2050. The bill was receiving a third reading, which means both the last chance for both democratic scrutiny and consent.
The bill creates an enormous bureaucratic apparatus for monitoring and reporting, which was expanded at the last minute. Amendments by the Government threw emissions from shipping and aviation into the monitoring program, and also included a revision of the Companies Act (c. 46) “requiring the directors’ report of a company to contain such information as may be specified in the regulations about emissions of greenhouse gases from activities for which the company is responsible” by 2012.
Recently the American media has begun to notice the odd incongruity of saturation media coverage here which insists that global warming is both man-made and urgent, and a British public which increasingly doubts either to be true. 60 per cent of the British population now doubt the influence of humans on climate change, and more people than not think Global Warming won’t be as bad “as people say”.
Read the rest of the story at the Register, here
Flanagan. You would do well to not just admit your error on mis-typing ‘Antarctic’ for ‘Arctic’, but also admitting that you got it spectacularly wrong on relative humidity too. With regard to the missing ‘hot spot’, realclimate isn’t a climate god, it’s just a bunch of people pushing one particular view. You cannot refer to their website as though it somehow trumps what anyone else might say. And I too am waiting, so when you’ve answered Niels, can you give me your explanation for cooling at 25,000 feet. Thanks so much.
Bilhaus 10:36:15
“Let’s remeber too that the first signs of GW will be COOLING OF THE BRITISH ISLES!”
Absolute rubbish. Do let us know where you got that twaddle from.
I have PhD (Depression of Philosophy)
I will detail the model:
T = ((T1 + T2 + T3 +…+ Tn) / n) * 0 + T
T = f (CO2) * 0 + H
H = g (horoscope)
Arkansas (08:16:08)
I’m one of them there rural folk and I ain’t never heard of a persimmon spoon. I live just a tad north of y’all and the persimmon trees are loaded this year. The coons have been havin themselves a field day. So this weekend I’m gonna take a look. We got our first frost so they be ready to pick now.
Does a persimmon spoon portend a harsh winter? I’m gonna cut me an extra cord o’ wood just in case.
Here’s all I found on that there Internet. At least I knows what to look for now.
http://igot2shoes.blogspot.com/2007/12/spoon.html
Flanagan,
In case you have not been completely brain washed, in addition to RealClimate, you should be reading Tamino’s blog at
http://tamino.wordpress.com
instead of this one. “Open Mind” is an oxymoronic name for that site and you will find your opinions (not facts) more welcomed there.
Sincererly,
Blog reading nobody, Dan McCune
Darn – just when I had THE answer for my GW friends ……
Opting for a political solution to what is a political problem …. I was ready to blame, Day-Light-Savings, all that extra sunlight must have been to blame for a good deal of the extra warming …….
WRT: Philip Stott’s Blog
Thanks for the link. He’s certainly one of the more eloquent spokesmen for skepticism. His blog from the 18th October carries a guest article by one Professor Cliff Ollier on Lysenkoism. I was curious.
Says Ollier:
I can see how such demonization of a movement (which was reappearing and current) in the U.S., could catalyze Soviet hatred. Genetics (as opposed to eugenics) could be linked to it and cast in the same unnatural light for those unable to distinguish between the two. An uneducated public is crucial.
Here in the U.S., what is the Evil with which the Global Warming deniers are linked to denigrate them?
Have to go… more later.
And now it’s all our fault the ice caps are melting
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Antarctica-Ice-Caps-Being-Melted-By-Human-Impact-Not-Natural-Sources-A-Scientific-Experiment-Reveals/Article/200810415136263?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_3&lid=ARTICLE_15136263_Antarctica_Ice_Caps_Being_Melted_By_Human_Impact_Not_Natural_Sources_A_Scientific_Experiment_Reveals
Dan McCune (10:58:29) :
“Does a persimmon spoon portend a harsh winter? I’m gonna cut me an extra cord o’ wood just in case.”
Dan, I ain’t heerd of noin persimmon spoon either. We used to check the thickness of the fur on the coons, opossums and muskrats to determine the severity of the coming winter. Somehow, those rascally varmints get proprietary weather information not available to us humans.
Hey ar-KANSAS (that’s how we pronounce it where I’m from)
I found something about the Persimmon Spoon
Winter Weather Lore and the Persimmon
Check the seed of a persimmon after a fall frost. Cut into the seed from the narrow side, and look at the kernel. See if you can recognize the shape of a spoon, fork, or knife. (See Photo at the link below)
If the kernel is shaped like a . . .
spoon, look for a harsh winter with heavy, wet snow.
fork, look for a mild winter with light, powdery snow.
knife, look for a cold, icy winter with cutting winds
http://www.wgnsradio.com/index.php?s=folklore
(there is a lot more interesting winter folklore at this link)
Today’s press release from Hadley Centre/CRU:
“Evidence has emerged that human activity, not natural phenomena, is directly responsible for heating up the polar ice caps…all continents of the world are being warmed through human activity…The Antarctic was the only one where there was any doubt, but not any more..”
http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn15085-humans-to-blame-for-polar-warming.html
Mike Bryant (08:17:49) :
You think you are “smarter than a whole bunch of PhDs working for years on climate modeling.”
-Flanagan
Mike you obviously do not understand the difficulties the computer modelers have in getting Nature to conform to their models. The public has been acclimatized to the infallibility of the computer since its inception…inception…inception…
and from the BBC website
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7700387.stm
Perry Debell (04:18:33) :
Phillip Bratby (00:32:45) :
Have either or both of you seen the video of Global Warming Is Not A Crisis, available on Michael Crichton’s website http://www.crichton-official.com/videos.html ?
Speaking for the motion: Michael Crichton, Richard S. Lindzen, Philip Stott Speaking against the motion: Brenda Ekwurzel, Gavin Schmidt, Richard C.J. Somerville Moderator: Brian Lehrer
March 14, 2007
Snow in October sounds like “climate change” to me.
Leif,
Well said. Yet, it is a difficult matter too. The EEC, the previous incarnation of the EU was presented to the peoples of Europe much like NAFTA was to the United States. But now look where they are. London can’t even pass its own legislation on any important matter anymore. The majority of British people no longer subscribe to AGW, yet their MPs are a lock for the idea. But even if their MPs were not, they are a part of the EU, and that matter is no longer in their jurisdiction. All this to illustrate the difficulty of being an ‘educated’ individual in a dumbed-down society. It’s much like you battling popular superstitions about the activity of the Sun versus the real science you deal with daily. At least nobody can vote to remove you.
All this talk of PhDs is very confusing. I understand the Priest Hood bit, Flanagan, but does the D stand for Disciple or Devotee?
“Leif Svalgaard (08:31:59) :
Brian Johnson (04:38:00) :
We have absolute idiots in our Houses of Parliament. […]
We are being led by morons.
And who are the morons that voted the other morons into office?
A people have the government they deserve…
”
Leif,
Woa be it for me to disagree…I hold your science, but more importantly your logic in high regard. The above, however, I do take issue with, at least on a general level. Voting one of the “idiots” out of office here in the States only results in the next idiot (from a line perhaps 20 long) who is next in line to step into the vacant slot. Quite simply, our system of government in the U.S. has disintegrated to the point where the people who really are smart enough and skilled enough to solve some of the problems we face wouldn’t go near public office with a 10′ pole.
Jim
Okay folks, Please stop feeding the troll.
Move along…nothing to see here.
Jim
Nice link to the current (30th October 2008) BBC mindset by JaneHM above(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7700387.stm
).
According to this august and creditable organisation the Fingerprint of Man (my capitalisations) is clearly visible on polar temperature changes and, by implication, may be culpable, if culpability is, indeed, relevant.
I would have liked the opportunity to find out out the views of those who read this article. Indeed, I may have felt moved enough to add an opinion of my own!
Alas, this option does not seem to exist. Comment from readers (and in the UK- public subscribers) is either, not on offer or very cleverly camouflaged!)
This is, given the professionalism of those who define editorial policy within the corridors of the BBC, not an unconscious decision!
This appears to break the very charter which underpins the existence of the BBC. The charter I refer to is ‘Building public value PDF (266KB)’ on the BBC link http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/policies/charter/
The following quote comes from the above reference:
‘Value for money must remain a key objective for the BBC throughout the next
Charter, and it needs to develop better, clearer structures of accountability and engagement with licence fee payers.’
Engagement with licence fee payers- Mmm- Nope Guys- Not really!
Bladly trotting out a feature-a fiction- a fact; and disallowing DIRECT feedback by omitting a clear and transparent mechanism is clearly a craven practise.
True, I could probably add my twopence worth to OFCOM or OFFCOLOR, or whoever, as thousands have done in the last week with the Ross-Brand-Sachs Fiasco!!!
For those outside the UK who are unfamiliar with this sorry, sordid story- just Google it and find out how low the once mighty can fall (or is that stoop)
Coming back to the topic that I believe is based on sceptical discussion on the relevance, or otherwise, of human activities and climate; I claim that the relevance of this post is to show that poor judgement and paucity of editorial sense may be greater contributers to media-fuelled hysteria on ‘Death of a Planet’ than political mendacity!
Personally, I sincerely hope that editorial re-education rather than editorial decimation will be the path taken by those on the BBC who have the stern challenge of meeting the legalities of Charter!
No more falling on swords please, Auntie Beeb!
Dave Bilhaus (10:36:15) :…Let’s remeber too that the first signs of GW will be COOLING OF THE BRITISH ISLES! (Cutting out the rest of the nonsense there)
I’ve heard that AGW believes that GW will somehow shut down the Gulf Stream – which of course would cause UK cooling.
Care to give refs /debunks on this one anyone?
“” Flanagan (07:29:47) :
I did not hide beneath any consensus, where did I say this? I simply said that I’m amazed some blog-reading nobodys are convinced they are smarter than anyone else, smarter than a whole bunch of PhDs working for years on climate modelling. I try to remain modest, and do not qualify as “stupid” people who do not think like me – I just say some of them here are obviously so self-satisfied they do not admit others could be right. “”
Just noticed this little ditty. Does your classification of “blog reading nobody’s” happen to include someone writing under the handle of “Flanagan” ?
As for this “whole bunch of PhDs working for years on climate modelling” Why don’t they try their hand at modelling the climate of planet earth; that being the place for which we have the most scientific (as in real measured observations of climate) information ??
A climate model that has the sun directly overhead at the south pole during the mid winter night, bathing the frigid pole with a constant barage of 342 W/m^2 24/7, exactly the same as is happening on the equator at the same time, does not seem to me to represent anything like what happens on our planet, where it is traditional to have it be dark, with the sun nowhere in sight during the south polar winter midnight. And we are used to having our sunlit tropical places illuminated by something like 1368 W/m^2 instead of the 342 alleged by the official NOAA global energy budget (model) that they promote.
After all those years and all those PhDs, you would think they should have discovered that something is wrong with their models.
I once had to interview a bunch of candidates for an electronic technician’s job; and the mandate was that it had to be a candidate from inside the company unless we could find none qualified. Surprisingly some PhD employees including a Stanford, and an MIT PhD emplyee applied for the job, along with various and sundry EEs and others (some of whom were facing a possible employee cutback). There was a single outside non employee candidate, but he didn’t have any recognised University degree at all, but just some paper from some Nicaraguan school. He and his mother had got lucky, and managed to escape from the country just before the rest of their family were slaughtered.
After the full panel of interviews, of all the candidates, our reading was unanimous, this kid from Nicaragua no-name school knew more about electronics than any of those PhDs from Stanford and MIT; and I hasten to add; those particular candidates; not all from those schools. The Stanford guy couldn’t even correctly tell me what Ohm’s Law was; well that is a trick question, and nobody I ever asked in an interview, gave me anything like a correct answer. I didn’t ask the kid from the no name Nicaraguan school, since we presumed he wasn’t supposed to know the answer.
He only lasted 8 months in the technicians job, then his boss busted him to full engineer status, as it was apparent that his no-name Nicaraguan school, had certainly equipped him to do that sort of job; whatever the hell that piece of paper he had said.
Which is not to knock PhDs; but face it, a PhD generally knows a hell of a lot about not much; so if you need the special skills of his thesis subject, he’s your man, otherwise he may have learned less than someone who got out of school and went to work earlier in his career and actually learned something of the real world.
Now a DSc, and I would sit up and take notice; but a PhD might be another Dr Laura; or have done his thesis in Ice Cream Making. Not too useful in some fields; maybe could be useful in climate science.
[…] Snow blankets London for Global Warming debate – first October Snow in over 70 years Two Stories for you, one about the snow itself, and the other about climate law being debated and passed in the middle […] […]
[…] to winter this year, not only in the USA, but also in London, where it snowed in October for the first time in over 70 years. So far, no mention of this broadly distributed U.S. record event in the mainstream media. There […]
“Blog reading nobody” … hmmm. Yes, I admit it, I am a blog reading nobody. But that says nothing about whether my opinions are sound or unsound.
One interesting point about nobodies is that they know nonsense when they hear it even if they cannot always articulate why they believe it to be nonsense or understand the technical method lying behind the nonsense.
And if you are contributing to a blog you are, by definition, advertising your point of view to a vast potential readership of which more than 99% are nobodies, so you can hardly complain if the audience is exactly that.