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Guest essay by Viv Forbes
There is a massive problem with photo-voltaic solar power. Modern cities and industries require power 24/7 but solar panels can only deliver significant energy from 9am to 3pm on a clear day – a maximum of 25% of the time. Even within this time, energy production peaks at midday and falls off steeply on either side.
Science has yet to develop a solar storage battery suitable for grid power. It must be sufficiently large, cheap and efficient to hold the solar power generated during the short solar maximum so it can be used later, when peak demand usually occurs. This process requires that much of the solar energy produced in peak times would have to be devoted to recharging the massive battery.
A linked hydro plant would work in certain limited locations, but the same people advocating solar power are opposed to dam building for hydro power.
But Planet Earth has already solved this problem. For millions of years Earth has use photosynthesis to store solar energy via in wood and plant material then converted this to long-term storage in the form of coal.
Coal is nature’s answer to solar energy storage and in a wonderful bit of synergy, the process of recovering the energy releases back to the atmosphere the building blocks of life – water vapour and carbon dioxide. These are again converted back by solar energy into more plants/wood/coal. And the whole process does a bit towards postponing the next ice age and returning Earth to that warm, moist, verdant, life-filled environment that existed when the coals were formed.
Coal is a gift from Gaia – the 100% natural, clean, green and sustainable answer to Solar Energy Storage!
Viv Forbes,
Rosewood Qld Australia
http://carbon-sense.com
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So they mount the panels on the roof.
Cold snowy day no power.
Warm snowy day avalanche.
Do they fit these things with wipers?
Why not they are subsidised with our tax money!
same thing for the “éoliennes” (sorry)
concerning solar panels they are mostly manufactured in china – and the manufacturing process is polluting, as well as when it has to be destroy –
for coal, did [you] hear about Ivan Makhonine ?
Sorry : did you
“A linked hydro plant would work in certain limited locations, but the same people advocating solar power are opposed to dam building for hydro power.”
Dams store renewable energy more so than any other natural device. Narrow canyons work well as there is less evaporation to cause lake effect weather.
Tides and ocean currents could also be used. Especially nearer to the poles where tides are greater due to the gravity bulge.
ah, the Carboniferous Period…..during my Geology undergrad years studying sedimentology and the Yoredale Series (that dates me) we spent many local field trips in the open cast coal mines of North West England, understanding the heartbeat of the Earth through transgressive and regressive episodes, the “window” of hydrocarbon production framed in the pressure/temperature cooker of geologic time and how, in the mid 19th Century, Man’s ingenuity had broken through the agricultural period into the Industrial Age with the help of coal. On many occasions we marvelled at the discovery of small shale nodules that revealed, when split open, the perfectly preserved remains of a plant sealed over 300 million years previously.
Today my heart weeps when I read the Mission Statements of once previously highly regarded organisations like the Geological Society….espousing sheer propoganda.
Sunlight, plants, CO2 and time. Our fossil fuel friends.
Reforming essential plant food
It is indeed amazing how our Creator has provided abundant stored solar fuel for use to grow our economies and provide a bridge from firewood to developing sustainable fuels from solar and/or nuclear energy. “God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.” Genesis 1:31. Using this abundant store of solar energy provides renews our atmosphere with carbon dioxide, an essential “plant food” and plant nutrient. By replenishing our atmosphere, Carbon Dioxide Emissions Stimulating $15 Trillion in Crop Production.
Conversely see Isaiah 5:20:
Woe indeed to the EPA and UN who rename using this abundant provision of fuel to be “carbon pollution”.
When I teach my 101 Geology course I use this example. It is in a closed room with no windows so I can hold up a piece of bituminous coal, explain how it is a solar battery and point to the lights in the room as proof that it works a charm and is not just some philosophical construct: I refer to it as ‘stored sunlight’.
We need to outlaw paper recycling. Bury the stuff after one use.
It does two things: Carbon sequestration to make the Greens happy, and future coal deposits for some species in the far future.
“Coal is a gift from Gaia – the 100% natural, clean, green and sustainable answer to Solar Energy Storage!”
…and a higher concentration of CO2 equates to higher yields in crops and forestation.
Not sure if this was advocating the creation of more coal – slight problem with the delay – how many millions of years are required? We tend not to let too many trees just fall over these days, do we, preferring rather more immediate use of wood.
What was the point of this essay?
Feeling very Grumpy today having discovered my council has a Biomass Supply Officer on its books.
The warmists claim that global warming causes more forest fires. Solution, cut down the trees and use them for fuel before Gia just recycles them. Their CO2 will be released back to the atmosphere either way .. and WE will do a better job of reducing smoke, soot, and other pollutants than Gia ever has!
Another problem is unused solar electricity that disappears to ground yet the solar panel’s owner’s electricity meter is still running backwards. Society is literally paying for nothing but apparently that’s how it’s supposed to be.
Interesting to note that about 10,000 years of Soft Wood (pine) growth, during a WARMER period, has provided the source of the Canadian Tar Sands.
Now can we burn it cleanly? Yes we can (back atcha barry)! So given that coal is the most plentiful fuel in the world and a lot of poor countries have lots of it why don’t we help them burn it as clean as possible?
I’d love to see more deployment of oxyfuel plants for third world countries. Burning coal in pure oxygen and CO2 rather than normal air produces mostly water vapor and nearly pure carbon dioxide.
Now when I explain that to most people they say “carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas”. Sometimes I tell them about water vapor, sometimes I ask if they know what it is. Sigh. We have a long long way to go. Sad thing is we know the road and could do it in a decade or two.
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/06/06/why-mining-and-burning-coal-could-slowly-be-killing-us/
–coal-fired plants cost the U.S. $62 billion per year in environmental and health costs.
–coal plants regularly dump thousands of tons of highly toxic waste into public drinking water sources.
–as many as 10,000 deaths associated with coal-fired plants in the U.S. These deaths are due to respiratory and cardiovascular diseases caused by coal pollution.
–coal is the number one source of greenhouse gas emissions in the US and contains over 50 identified toxins that pollute the environment and can cause grave health disorders.
–people who live in coal mining communities have a 70 percent risk of developing kidney disease, a 64 percent increased risk of developing chronic pulmonary obstructive disease, and are 30 percent more likely to develop high blood pressure than those who do not live in coal-mining communities.
–communities near mountaintop coal mines have inordinately high rates of birth defects.
Ok, ok, but let’s just remember that a piece of coal is more of a high density solar energy ‘collection’ as a result of many centuries/millennia of solar input, rather than a battery (which is usually thought of as being able to be remanufactured or recharged relatively easily/quickly). I’m not averse to the odd analogy, but perhaps ‘battery’ is not really sensible in this case for the average layperson IMHO.
The energy being ‘used’ from coal is a multimillenial collection of tiny photons of energy gradually collected into wood, then fossilised into coal (again, over many millennia), It cannot be remanufactured by man (at least not via the same natural processes!) and is a precious (although abundant) resource – as are all fossil fuels!
just sayin…
(and no, I’m not being a tree-hugging eco-nut – just want folk to appreciate what TIME and ENERGY has gone into that piece of coal!)
Grumpy says:
February 11, 2014 at 10:35 am
“Not sure if this was advocating the creation of more coal – slight problem with the delay – how many millions of years are required? We tend not to let too many trees just fall over these days, do we, preferring rather more immediate use of wood.”
Grumpy; coal deposits formed during a time where fungi (white mould) had not yet developed the ability to break down lignin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligninase
Letting trees fall over these days just leads to rotting trees and flourishing fungi colonies, not to the formation of coal deposits.
Barf. I like the subversive “coal is solar” message. While technically accurate, you fail to mention that coal reserves are being used up in a minute fraction of the tens of millions of years it took for Gaia to produce them. And then what?
“Coal is nature’s answer to solar energy storage and in a wonderful bit of synergy, the process of recovering the energy releases back to the atmosphere the building blocks of life – water vapour and carbon dioxide. These are again converted back by solar energy into more plants/wood/coal. ——> And the whole process does a bit towards postponing the next ice age and returning Earth to that warm, moist, verdant, life-filled environment that existed when the coals were formed.”
So burning coal that is releasing carbon dioxide and water vapor makes earth warmer. So the carbon dioxide emissions by the humanity make earth warmer. Who could have thought that? Not the scientists I’m sure.
Grumpy says:
February 11, 2014 at 10:35 am
Not sure if this was advocating the creation of more coal – slight problem with the delay – how many millions of years are required? We tend not to let too many trees just fall over these days, do we, preferring rather more immediate use of wood.
What was the point of this essay?
=============================================================================
1) Wood is not the only source of biomass that can form coal. I imagine peat would turn into coal if left long enough.
2) Considering that diamonds can be artificially created much faster than they are supposed to form in nature I would be willing to bet the same would be true for a process to create synthetic coal from biomass. I would be concerned more about scalability, specifically the ratio of input biomass to output coal.
So why aren’t we actively persuing LFTR commercialisation, is Thorium not also “a gift from Gaia”? Seems like a darned sight better option than coal.
Don’t forget the social element. The “war against coal” is really a war against coal miners and by extension the industrial working class. The old “class struggle” rears its head again.
Why is coal the only industry where this “class warfare” argument seems to crop up? Is Wal-Mart choosing to buy t-shirts from Bangladeshi factories a “war on American textiles”? Is the iPhone a “war on American land lines”? No. These are industries that have changed dramatically in the last few decades and the markets have responded. Why aren’t libertarians hailing coal’s weaning competitiveness as a triumph of the free market? Coal is a 19th century technology that is experiencing its death gasp and this is NOT a class war.
Energy storage is possible for solar and wind, just look up Compressed Air Energy Storage. There is a plant in Alabama that has been operating since 1991 that can produce 110 MW of electrical power. It requires a large cavern to store the air, but we have been doing this with natural gas for years. Much more immediate than turning plants into coal.
jai mitchell says:
February 11, 2014 at 10:44 am
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/06/06/why-mining-and-burning-coal-could-slowly-be-killing-us/
–coal-fired plants cost the U.S. $62 billion per year in environmental and health costs.
–coal plants regularly dump thousands of tons of highly toxic waste into public drinking water sources.
–as many as 10,000 deaths associated with coal-fired plants in the U.S. These deaths are due to respiratory and cardiovascular diseases caused by coal pollution.
–coal is the number one source of greenhouse gas emissions in the US and contains over 50 identified toxins that pollute the environment and can cause grave health disorders.
–people who live in coal mining communities have a 70 percent risk of developing kidney disease, a 64 percent increased risk of developing chronic pulmonary obstructive disease, and are 30 percent more likely to develop high blood pressure than those who do not live in coal-mining communities.
–communities near mountaintop coal mines have inordinately high rates of birth defects,
***************************
Who opened the door and let Jim Hansen in?
Any way, of all the reported deaths, do you have the names of those who have died and the date they died on?
Thanks,
There are a few issues with this post, but thanks for starting the conversation.
1) The efficient solution does not require one energy technology to handle all production all the time. The market still places a value on peak consumption periods of the day even if a residential user does not see it behind a utility flat fee structure.
2) Solar energy costs are still falling and short-term financial disclose documents show more improvements coming. The solar handicap comes in from subsidy programs for rooftop solar, CSP, and various other offshoots of solar that are not competitive but which benefit from hiding behind a sector cost average that is flawed with startups and fake business plans mining tax credits.
3) Zinc air grid scale-able batteries are starting production in 2014 for delivery to grid customers after pilot testing by lead utility customers.
4) Coal will be shipped and burned somewhere just as heavy crude oil types go somewhere. Radical policy-driven costs increases in developed markets will just reshuffle the coal market flow pattern along with comparative advantages in trade.