Paging Lord Deben
I had debated with myself a couple of days as to whether or not to cover this particular bit of ugliness, after it first being brought to my attention by Bishop Hill. But then, Lord Deben of the UK made this observation:
I challenge Lord Deben to find examples of climate skeptics doing anything remotely close to this sort of ugliness that is much like of the tactics of the Klu Klux Klan – showing up at somebody’s house with mask covered faces, torches, and a threat:
Source:
‘The People’ Confront Enbridge Executive In Solidarity With MI CATS 3
http://www.tarsandsblockade.org/enbridge-home-demo/
(update: their website is no longer serving that page, so here it is as a PDF Tar Sands Blockade – Enbridge )
One of these days, they’ll show up at the wrong house, like their comrades did with the wrong petrol station, and the person inside won’t be as tolerant as Mr. Maki was, and that won’t be pretty:
In case Lord Deben doesn’t know, this “tar sands blockade” is an organization that is part of Bill McKibben’s 350.org and their mission to stop Keystone XL due to their concerns about the supposed effect on the climate.
(Update: Amazingly, McKibben supported this action, see screencap below)
And, perhaps Lord Deben doesn’t recall this example of ugliness from like minded people in the UK on climate, who decided that blowing up school children would be a great way to get the message of climate obedience and compliance across:
It was so bad, 10:10 tried to disappear it, but they were unsuccessful.
And, maybe Lord Deben hasn’t seen this:
Lefty Feud Over Keystone Worsens, Ed Schultz Telling Enviros to ‘Go to Hell’
It seems even the left leaning media is realizing the KXL people are going off the rails.
I challenge Lord Deben to find similar examples from climate skeptics. I’ll even given you a guest essay here to highlight it if you like.
Reference:
‘your journey towards the dark side will be complete’ with apologies to “Emperor Palpatine”
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I admit I might have been a little personally unpleasant with Gene Karpinsky of the League of Conservation Voters on cspan this morning. But how could you not be?
Can’t really fully comment until I understand what a “climate naysayer” is. Probably another figment of imagination for warmers to push over, strawman-style.
I’ve found ‘sceptics’ to be reasonably open minded if vigorous in expressing their viewpoints whereas ‘believers’ become threatening and abusive at the presentation of any level of disagreement.
In politics it’s best to ask what Churchill would do rather than what Jesus or Buddha would do based on the advice of passivists.
To be honest as a fairly prolific blogger on all shades of the climate debate, I find aggressive and rude people on all sides of the issue. I suspect a persons attitude on a given subject owes more to their own personality than the subject in hand, and such people tend to express unresolved anger through the medium of the debate. It could be a discussion regarding the colour of cats, the end result would be the same people being rude, aggressive and intimidating.
Enbridge is not behind the KXL, its TransCanada.
Your link is not working:
http://www.tarsandsblockade.org/enbridge-home-demo/
REPLY: Hmmm, either their website is on the fritz, or they disappeared it, fortunately I have a copy and will update the post with a link to it. – Anthony
Gareth Phillips:
At February 9, 2014 at 11:23 am you write
I can easily accept that is your experience given the nature and purpose of your posts.
Indeed, I think it likely that the response you say you obtain is universal when people discover you are a shill employed to spread disinformation and propaganda on behalf of the Carbon Trading industry. People may want to see this link which – by the way – has a nice photo of you
http://www.sindicatum.com/author/gareth-phillips/
Richard
Stephen Wilde, it’s their inner despot coming out into the open. We’re too stupid or bullheaded to see the truth so they have to take control by any means and force it down our throats for the sake of all of us.
Remember:
“If it takes force to impose your ideas on your fellow man, there is something wrong with your ideas. If you are willing to use force to impose your ideas on your fellow man, there is something wrong with you.” – Mark Fournier
There may be more “naysayers” on the skeptic side but at least there aren’t as many idiots.
The remark that started ‘Lord’ Deben off is found at https://twitter.com/lorddeben/status/432571803425587201 in which he calls #Anthropogenic #GlobalWarming sceptics ‘deniers/dismissers’ the holocaust referencing Godwins’ law invoking term used by so many alarm spreading followers of #IPCC dogma. This was followed by the remark Antony responded to at https://twitter.com/lorddeben/status/432575875666968577 in which he now labels #CAGW sceptics dissenters.
The use of the epithet #Denier has been habitual and continual with Deben, and to me is not the kind of behavior that is fitting on part of someone who is supposed to be part of the nobility. There is nothing whatever noble about such speech, and when he is called out on this practice of his, his response is as detailed above, to blame sceptics for attacking, even though he is the first to hurl the slurs.
I also take exception to his classification of sceptics on the matter of anthropogenic global warming as dismissers, we do not dismiss the evidence but the interpretations and question the models which to date show limited skill at prediction beyond 5 to 10 days.
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/deben_tweet_capture.png?w=640
================================================================
He left out lawsuits.
Oh, wait a minute. That would be …..
Mr. Philips, could you please direct me to a list of the ‘skeptic’ bloggers and their specific posts that disturbed you? As a prolix reader of the debate, I have seen very little that would be outside the pale in any reasonably vigorous and well coached forensics class at the HS level, and find myself surprised by your statement. Much obliged.
I too wonder what a naysayer might be.
Those protesters are brave ; to the point of suicidal insanity.
If faced with ideological zombies, carrying burning torches and wearing masks, outside my home after dark…I would fear for the safety of my family and property, rightly so.
And they do this in Texas…
As for Lord Deben or whatever he calls himself, the projection from cult members has been 100% accurate so far.
What he accuses, is what he is.
I’ve see far more unpleasantness from the left wing greens that I’ve ever seen from conservative who oppose them, but it’s important to look at what is really happening. Those of us who work for a living and enjoy a nice quality of life have no wish to argue with anyone. The UN and their sycophants in the Democratic Party in the US want to take our money, restrict our ability to travel, and damage our economy. They’ll do this while pretending to possess the moral high ground, while their leadership lives in lavish homes a travels by private jet. I’m supposed to let Al Gore, Darryl Hannah, Alec Baldwin and George Soros tell me to use less fossil fuel?
They threaten my employment, my family and my country from their Ivory Towers. That, in itself, far exceeds any verbal unpleasantness I might direct their way, but it much worse than that. They label me “anti-science” because I insist on empirical evidence, a “denier” because I see confirmation bias in their post hoc analysis, and a “planet killer” because I am competent and productive. It would be impossible to find a way to transport 20,000 of my fellow skeptics to Denmark or the South Pacific because there is no funding for such a venture, but every year that number of climate activists, politicians, journalists and their pet scientists find a way to travel together to far flung corners of the globe. While there they conspire to transfer my wealth to my government and then have it sent to third-world countries that are openly hostile to my way of life. They accuse me of being a shill of oil companies, while the truth is that I’m not even a stockholder and certainly not paid to promote them. If I were, I’d be a lot more likely to visit some of the places that climate activists seem to enjoy.
Sorry for the rant, but when someone from the left asks why we aren’t especially polite when we engage them, I’m tempted to ask if they’ve ever been robbed. How is the victim of such a crime expected to behave?
Don’t forget to read the tweets of Michael E. Mann.
If being a ‘naysayer’ means not swallowing pseudo-science, anti-science, or evidence-free assertions, then I guess I’m a naysayer.
But being part of the 10-10 crowd, or 350.org is a long way from simply holding their feet to the fire, by asking them for actual evidence. Because so far, there is no scientific evidence that I can find to support the alarmist crowd’s belief in runaway global warming or climate catastrophe. There is really no such evidence at all.
If they post actual evidence, I will sit up straight and pay close attention. If they produce verifiable scientific evidence, I will change my mind. But so far, all I see are assertions of doom ‘n’ gloom.
That’s not good enough. So I guess I’m a naysayer.
I watched ‘The People’ video. The restraint and reasoned response of Mr.Maki was admirable. He didn’t seem concerned about being confronted by a masked mob turning up on his doorstep at night. Remarkable. In contrast, ‘The People’ (how ridiculous and presumptuous is that title btw) were full of emotion, easily refuted ‘facts’ and insults. Bullying and bloviating is such a poor substitute for rational arguments.
By the voices, it sounded like a bunch of students and one older male leader. I’m going to go out on a pretty sturdy limb and assume ‘The People’ are not physical science or business majors. Journalism or some sort of victim studies majors, perhaps. No offense to the sane holders of such degrees, of course. .
I’ve had quite a few face to face arguments with alarmists over the last couple of years and they’re certainly not above using weight of numbers or shouting to try to intimidate.
The worst instances though have been when one of them has made some ridiculous hysterical contention or other and I’ve laughed at them. That seems to be what really gets their back up and the implied violence comes shortly afterwards – I hate the poor, I hate the environment, I’m doing the bidding of big oil/ big tobacco etc. etc ad nauseum
Gareth Phillips gets paid for his opinions?
http://www.sindicatum.com/author/gareth-phillips/
Gareth can you confirm if this is you?
PS it won’t lower my assement of the quality of your observations.
If you live and work in the oil sands like I do, and I never fail to mention the fact, or even live in Alberta, Canada then there are not enough vile names in a thousand articles like I have been called, naked hatred so vile and ugly few, if any here, have any idea what hatred really means, visits from washed up Hollywood stars and washed up rock stars that boggle the mind with their stunning lack of knowledge, education, or common sense, newspaper articles bordering on hate and misinformation even a child would question, of course newspaper talk-back sections where vile names and threats are as common as breathing on a daily basis. My province is under constant attack, my city is under constant assault from all over the world, the entire oil based industry is under daily attack up to and including the US White House, 10 Downing street, the EU governing body – this then is life here in oil sands country. If you live and work here, or in Alberta itself, then this is very normal every single day of our lives. Funded most often by US so called liberal groups including up to the buying or renting of Indian chiefs along with their entire bands – this is the brutal world I cannot speak about using their own words, if I used their own words, this post would be refused by the mods on this site. Welcome to my real world.
I’m only unpleasant to green anti fracking eco loonies to the extent of trolling them. Most of the time I debate quite civilly with those whose minds and ears are not totally blocked by the green propaganda.
At 3:19 : “Everyday I have to wake up and do yoga and exercise, whether I want to or not, just to make sure those chemicals don’t stay in my body.”
Hey, it’s the volunteer stand up comedy brigade doin a free gig. What’s not to like?
glenndc says:
February 9, 2014 at 11:44 am
Mr. Philips, could you please direct me to a list of the ‘skeptic’ bloggers and their specific posts that disturbed you? As a prolix reader of the debate, I have seen very little that would be outside the pale in any reasonably vigorous and well coached forensics class at the HS level, and find myself surprised by your statement. Much obliged.
Hi Glenn, no problem. If you have a look through the posts with the Black Swan title, I’m sure you will find lots of examples. If you want heavy stuff on the other side of the debate I’d suggest Skeptical science. For an example of a site which manages to hold pretty civil discussions check out And then there’s Physics where Anders manages to keep things civil during pretty interesting debates.
Lord Deben is a long time believer in AGW. Unfortunately he has no scientific knowledge nor ability whatsoever.
He has tried to equate climate scepticism with the tobacco industry coverup in the past, e.g.:
“Of course these merchants of doubt peddle a philosophy underpinned by much darker forces – political and financial interests whose private wealth or cherished beliefs are threatened by action on climate change. Their use of money and campaigning techniques mirror those of the tobacco industry in fighting action on smoking and health. They use their resources to spread uncertainty in order to delay action and debilitate activists.”
http://www.globeinternational.org/index.php/news/blog/item/human-beings-are-not-ostriches-we-insure
He used Ad Hominem attacks whenever he wishes but condemns it when it is convenient.
From BishopHill commenter.
“KLU KLUX KLAN immediately springs to mind !”
Feb 8, 2014 at 3:43 AM | Unregistered CommenterStreetcred