Friday Funny: Fracking protestors and their petro-sourced belongings

We really shouldn’t be surprised–as a society we enjoy plastic Christmas trees, plastic fruit baskets, and plastic foilage through office buildings and many municipal settings.
With so much plastic foilage and the undeniable evidence they produce fruit, it wouldn’t be surprising to expect nylon trees that bear nylon fruit, and metal trees that bear metal fruit.
Just pick a lot of the appropriate fruit off the tree (plastic, nylon, aluminum, steel, etc.), get some factory to form it into a useful item, and voila`!–we get all the useful “environmental” items seen in the picture above!
Sad thing is, that’s the current state of our educational system–and trying to convince these people otherwise is probably a lost cause. Just show them where a carton of milk actually comes from, and they practically swear off the beverage. Can you imagine how they’d react if they found out how highly carcinogenic crude oil can be? Any bets they’d swear off plastics and nylon forever?
Hmmmm…. I sense a Josh cartoon in the making…

Lets posterize these people for all to see. Nicely done.

As an anonymous coward hiding behind a pseudonyn, I really liked the quotation from Oscar Wilde.

You might almost think that this protest is a form of satire, but the humor would be lost on them.

Nothing is as it used to be, not even plastic people.
In the good old days The Plastic People of the Universe were an anti-totalitarian dissident Czech rock band.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_People_of_the_Universe
http://havel.columbia.edu/glossary/plastic_people_of_the_universe.html
These newfangled anti-something-or-other protesters seem to be just a bunch of cheap plastic collectivists.

….not to mention, that there is always more protest when hypcrisy is pinned on the protest donkey. “we had no CHOICE! I mean, like, where can you even GET a bell tent these days?”

Odds are some or all of their clothes include fabric derived from petroleum.

Lovely!
At a science fiction convention many years ago I happened upon one of these hypocrites spouting off about the evils of plastic. This was just after the anti-polystyrene campaign had shut down five factories in my state and I had been ‘let-go’ the week before. Needless to say I was not in a good mood. So here stands this overweight hypocrite dressed in polyester and nylon with her expensive running shoes made of various co-polymers. I asked her for her house and car keys stopping her in mid tirade. She sputtered HUH? I said put your money where your mouth is, your car and your house are made of plastics and so for that matter are your clothes, Take them off. While she stood there sputtering her rapt audience sniggered as they slunk off.
Nothing like pointing out their hypocrisy to take the air out of the wind bags. Too bad it has never worked as well on the Goricle. You would thing his large carbon foot print and his beach side home would penetrate the thick skulls of his worshipers, and even some of his detractors.

“one word: PLASTICS”
(famous scene from “The Graduate”)

So, is it hypocrisy, or ignorance? (or stupidity?)

Is she wearing shades?

Eric Worrall writes “Do these hypocrites actually think about what sort of world they would have to endure, without the cheap hydrocarbons, and cheap plastic synthetics, the petroleum source of which they oppose?”
If they were protesting about drilling for oil your comments might make sense.
Since they are protesting about injecting chemicals into the ground to extract gas ( not commonly used for making plastics) your whole article is pretty STUPID and you allegations of “hypocracy” totally unfounded.
Looks like fracking debate is going to be a mindless left/right polarised issue devoid of facts just like climate.
In fact, deliberately confounding oil extraction with gas extraction in order to make a false criticism of hypocracy is pretty hypocritical in itself.
This is called projection. Nice work Eric.

Greg says:
If they were protesting about drilling for oil your comments might make sense.
Greg. you do know that is exactly what Quadrilla are doing, don’t yoou? Drilling for oil, not gas?

And can please , PLEASE ask them how they can afford to show up all over, England Holland, Germany, the rest of the EU, now Canada, the USA and for that matter all over the place in their tents waving their pla(stic)cards?? all of you have said this as well but I wonder ?? WHAT do they use to brush their teeth!

What’s amazing that there is almost nothing in that picture that is *not* a petro-product.

I apologise, Anthony. It was humour, and that very spoil-sport over me over something so trivial.
And Janice, while I’m not going to search archives at this hour, I’m certain Anthony has said he believes in conservation for conservation’s sake, not just to save money. That’s to his credit, of course.

Hey all! I visit WUWT multiple times a day and I enjoy this site very much. I am very much concerned with the state of affairs in our “Once Great Country” and for the life of me I can’t figure out how we let the Nuts take control of the Asylum! On a serious note though; I have decided to make it my goal to become more environmentally friendly and do my part to curb emissions. Can some one point me to a site where I can purchase a small cheap carbon capture unit? I have decided that I will pull as much of the poisonous gas out of the atmosphere as I possibly can and put it in my Beer Kegs!
Thanks in Advance!
Butch

Reminded me of a years ago protest of Greenpeace with one of their ships against a local PVC plant in Italy (PVC is made by chlorine, the “element of the devil” according them). Someone of the factory visited the ship and did take pictures of all items made of PVC at their ship: from water hoses to a self-made chair from PVC pipe to the lifeboats, all PVC…
One word indeed: hypocrites.

Steve B says:
August 23, 2013 at 7:34 pm
short answer – NO
Mate, when you have a second: look up the word rhetorical.

It’s ignorance.
Sometimes I want to weep at how spectacularly ignorant many people I meet are. These are people that have been through higher education, but are so ignorant of the basics of science and engineering that the equivalent would be me not knowing who Shakespeare was.
P.S. I now have a blog of my own. Thanks to WUWT for inspiring me to get on with it.

I’ve never seen so many stupid comments, most claiming hypocracy. Fracking is frought with problems known and as it is a new technique, some no doubt unknown – unpleasant suprises in store? All those items identified in the picture were made without the fracking gas from balcombe.
Let me see the frackers turn up on the doorstep of those who cry ‘hypocrite’ to do some fracking under their houses – see who the term hypocrite really applies to. There are ways to do things and ways not to do things – why are you a hypocrite if you protest against the ways not to do something? All those crying HYPOCRACY here are the ones needing to inform themselves and stop their nonsense comments, they are like sheep who think they know…
Caroline Lucas MP is seen in the centre wearing a red scarf surrounded by police
MP among 29 arrested at anti-fracking rally in Balcombe
Green MP Caroline Lucas was among those arrested at a sit-in aimed at halting plans to drill for shale gas in a West Sussex village

While it is true that it’s very hypocrite of these protestors, at the same time you are doing yourself a thin favor, because the first accusation globalwarmingologists always use against their critics such as you is precisely that skeptics are paid by the oil companies.
And in this post you are indirectly defending the oil companies.
I say it because each time I try to refute something, using or referring to you or NOAA data or whatever questions their “truth”, they basically say anyone who questions the warm side of climate change is paid by or works for the oil companies.
Cheap accusation denoting they don’t give a damn about investigating and bothering to collate information, but still, it’s a block.

Greg: your
Since they are protesting about injecting chemicals into the ground to extract gas ( not commonly used for making plastics) your whole article is pretty STUPID and you (sic) allegations of “hypocracy”(sic) totally unfounded.
Natural gas is generally used to make polyethylene, which is the basis for the most common plastics.
That fact makes your comment incredibly stupid.
Speaking of related hypocrisy, Dow Chemical is against the export of LNG from the US. They say that it will increase prices for US consumers. What they are really saying is that it will increase the cost of its NG feedstock. They are against the export of LNG, so that they can continue to export cheap plastic feedstock. Sadly, they have Markey and anti-fracing liberals as allies. Strange bedfellows.

Neil: your
I’ve never seen so many stupid comments, most claiming hypocracy. Fracking is frought with problems known and as it is a new technique, some no doubt unknown – unpleasant suprises in store? All those items identified in the picture were made without the fracking gas from balcombe.
Fracing is not new. The first variation was patented in 1864. Hydraulic fracturing has been done since 1949. Since then, it’s been done in millions of treatments in North America alone.
It is almost certain that some of those plastics were sourced from fractured oil or gas wells.

Neil says:
August 24, 2013 at 2:00 am
Fracking is frought with problems known and as it is a new technique, some no doubt unknown – unpleasant suprises in store? All those items identified in the picture were made without the fracking gas from balcombe.
Neil, fracking is not a new technique, but recent developments in horizontal drilling allowed to expand the technique to near unlimited area’s.
Do you know how many fracking wells were drilled in the US and how many of them until now did give unpleasant surprises?
There are at least as many unpleasant surprises from so called “conventional” gas exploration: the northern part of The Netherlands is sinking, including (small) earthquakes, because of the huge removal of natural gas from the underground, despite lots of water pumped in the wells.
And as natural gas is currently the main feedstock for the production of ethylene in the US, the main raw material for near all plastics, it is highly probable that the plastics were made by fracked gas, if the plastics were made in the US…

Jonathan Castle got their before me!
Greg says:
August 23, 2013 at 10:30 pm
They are drilling for oil, not gas!!!! A small but highly relevant point!
As to the comments about selfish desire for cheap energy, one may not be alone. Apart from the neo-feudalists & eco-Stalinists, I have a sneaky feeling the rest of us desire cheap energy, it’s what got the world out of poverty. That tends to put me & others in the MAJORITY! That’s why we tend to want every body to have it, no more guilt trips, but of course, then there’d b nothing left to protests about, would there?
As to materials, it’s wasn’t so long ago that the vegetarians & vegans were still walking around in leather shoes, if they aren’t still? Ho hum.

Quote: Copyright, Texaco, 1990
Polyethylene is made from ethane, which is found in natural gas. Natural gas is found deep under the surface of the earth, usually in pockets of crud oil. Before the process of making polyethylene can begin, the oil must be pumped up to the surface, and the natural gas must be separated from the oil. Several difficult engineering problems arise when transporting natural gas to the surface.
Quote: After the oil has been transport up and out of the ground, the natural gas is separated from the liquid oil, into a gaseous component and a liquid component. This is done by flash distillation. …
Fracking is frought with problems – especially relevant when that fracking is done near natural resources and/or homes. You cannot tell me it is not a new technology just because someone did something like it in 1864. In 1864 they did not have the (new) technology to do what is being done today – would that be a fair comment? So to claim as you do is (engelbeen, les) not appropriate.
Fracking can be done well away from populated or even semipopulated areas, in remote areas, wastelands, etc, etc. They want to drill a mile from the village of Balcombe!. Can anyone here look me in the eye and say if they had a house in Balcombe, that they would not be concerned about fracking under their houses? If you think you can then I would advise you to go do some reading up on the subject…..
Quote: Hannah Martin, at the Reclaim the Power camp at Balcombe, said: “The camp has been a fantastic success in fuelling a national debate about energy futures and community rights, but the real heroes of this story have been the people of Balcombe who represent all those everywhere who are standing in the way of undemocratic, invasive and exploitative fracking plans.”
Hypocracy is the last term applicable to these protestors.

Of course you wonder how they got to the protest in the first place, by horse?

How about this………….
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100429102920.htm

The massive tax breaks given to the shale gas industry by George Osborne – whose father-in-law is an oil and gas lobbyist – are a slap in the face to the millions of Britons now struggling to make ends met under his austerity drive.
solar, wind, anyone?
think about it…

les – that was said/written tongue in cheek. There is an irony there because of the solar wind opposition about tax breaks etc… you know the story…

For gods sake, at least learn to spell “hypocrisy” correctly….

It would probably be interesting to find out if the organizers and some of the leading anti-fracking activists at these so called anti fracking demonstrations are getting a considerable supplementary income via the notorious brown paper bag route to very considerably bolster their meagre [ ? ] dole bludger’s income.
Beats actually having to work for a living every time.
The brown paper bag, if the increasing number of reports are anywhere near correct, would probably be filled with currency denominated in roubles. And lots thereof if it wasn’t for the questions bound to be asked at the currency exchange over the sizes of the transactions.
So no doubt pounds or dollars or euro’s it is in those brown paper bags the anti fracking activists are so judiciously activitisting for in the hope of acquiring an even larger rouble / pound / dollar / euro filled brown paper bag.
A nice little very smelly anti-fracking activist’s fox hole to be chased down by some keen reporter with a potentially juicy reward and some very red faces along with a huge loss of credibility by the anti-fracking activists and Putin and his oil and gas oligarchs.
This below is only one example of a story that is getting ever harder for Putin and no doubt the anti- fracking activists to put to bed permanently
“Experts Believe Russia Is Bankrolling A Plan To End Shale” Gashttp://www.businessinsider.com.au/russia-and-shale-gas-2012-10

Neil says:
August 24, 2013 at 3:06 am
Hypocracy is the last term applicable to these protestors.
They were accused of hypocrisy not hypocracy, the hypocratic oath is something else.
Neil says:
August 24, 2013 at 3:19 am
solar, wind, anyone?
think about it…
Oh Yes, the residents there will be really happy to get some nice wind turbines around the village to get some intermittent electrical current mostly when they do not need it and have solar on the roof that is so efficient during the rainy days, both been backed with inefficient gas power stations. The gas power stations that would have consumed the same amount of gas generating the electricity in efficient process without the disturbances from your named “energy sources”.
think about it…

@ROM
“Experts Believe Russia Is Bankrolling A Plan To End Shale”
That doesn’t sound far fetched with the Saudis and Qataris trying to prevent the Keystone XL pipeline and financing anti-fracking movies.

quote scientific american
“In 10 to 100 years we are going to find out that most of our groundwater is polluted,” said Mario Salazar, an engineer who worked for 25 years as a technical expert with the EPA’s underground injection program in Washington. “A lot of people are going to get sick, and a lot of people may die.”
“There is no certainty at all in any of this, and whoever tells you the opposite is not telling you the truth,’ said Stefan Finsterle, a leading hydrogeologist at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory who specializes in understanding the properties of rock layers and modeling how fluid flows through them. “You have changed the system with pressure and temperature and fracturing, so you don’t know how it will behave.”
A ProPublica review of well records, case histories and government summaries of more than 220,000 well inspections found that structural failures inside injection wells are routine. From late 2007 to late 2010, one well integrity violation was issued for every six deep injection wells examined — more than 17,000 violations nationally. More than 7,000 wells showed signs that their walls were leaking. Records also show wells are frequently operated in violation of safety regulations and under conditions that greatly increase the risk of fluid leakage and the threat of water contamination.
les?

les – flying is not a fair comparison, in this case we’re talking about an industry that will get away with what it can, with big legal teams, bullyboy tactics, brown envelopes of cash and no conscience – profit is the only name of the game. deaths don’t (usually) occur in such an instance as with a plane crash. Long term, consequences, unknowns, real and logical concerns…. now there is a muddy water that all sorts of wickedness can thrive in – and does.
You supported fracking under your own home? really? I really am suprised.
Also, tax breaks to petro companies? you serious? They have money coming out of their ears, robbing us at every turn and the government is giving them a tax break (of whatever size)? Something really really wrong there.

Lets get this into perspective. Are they protesting against oil products or the fracking process that gets the oil. There are numerous ways of getting oil but fracking is controversial. Deep sea drilling is not at damaging (arguably) and provides significantly greater yields that go into making the products mentioned in the picture. So many of the arguments, including the picture are flawed in the claim that these people are hippocrites. Articles like this only serve to stir up trouble and add no value.

Neil says:
August 24, 2013 at 2:00 am

“I’ve never seen so many stupid comments, most claiming hypocracy. Fracking . . is a new technique, some no doubt unknown – unpleasant suprises in store? All those items identified in the picture were made without the fracking gas from balcombe…Let me see the frackers turn up on the doorstep of those who cry ‘hypocrite’ to do some fracking under their houses – see who the term hypocrite really applies to. “

Neil, they are not fracking at Balcombe. Cuadrilla have returned to a site that was originally drilled in the 1980s, as they want to look for anymore oil or gas reserves. There are plenty more wells in the county that don’t seem to have caused any bother, so why should this one?
From Cuadrilla’s we page at http://www.cuadrillaresources.com/our-sites/balcombe/

“In 1986, energy company Conoco drilled an exploration well on the same site that Cuadrilla will use, situated half a mile from Balcombe village. According to the Department for Energy and Climate Change’s (DECC) records, more than 50 oil and gas wells have already been drilled in the county.”

Fracking is not a new technique as you claim, it’s been going on in various parts of the world for decades without you or the hippie rent-a-mob noticing. It’s just become the latest thing for the greenies to have a rant about.
If Cuadrilla discover anymore reserves, then they may apply in future for a permit to begin fracking, which would be superb. I don’t see myself as a hypocrite. I’d quite happily have fracking take place under my house – the wells are dug so deep I’d never notice them. If it means my energy bills go down, then great!
BTW ‘hypocrisy’ is the correct spelling

Neil,
I’d give up now if I was you, as people on this thread have made you look like yet another knee-jerk reactionary.
When you’ve bought a computer that doesn’t contain any plastic parts, then please get back in touch……

They should be celebrating fracking if it serves local needs – it removes the energy (carbon footprint) that would otherwise be required to ship the gas or oil from distant locations. Judging by the plastics on show – there’s definitely a high local need.

les point acknowledged. But. they somehow seem hand in hand. you can be sure no fracking no pollution this way – I know that is a bit ‘wrong’ logically if you tease out the detail and seperate oil/gas/frack/well from toxic waste/well/dump, to lose the oil/gas, but …. the nature of man and his habits/greed/record – elsewhere there have been serious problems, the like of which is being experienced now and the ultimate consequence of which we have yet to deal.
Would you frack 1 mile from a village?
I would not, no matter how much I thought I knew, all due respect. We just don’t know enough, especially long term, to risk homes and families and communities

Dirk – anti fracker?you just wade in with a comment like that after checking what? how mcuh did you read above?
I clearly state I woudl not frack 1 mile from a village. I also state indirectly, earlier, that I would not see a problem fracking long ways away from humans/homes/communities.
So what am I dirkh, just to be clear?
voluntary transaction? If you get someone hooked into a technology and then hoik up the price beyond all reasonableness – yep I call that robbery, and especially when other, amazing technologies have been silenced so that bigoil can continue to rob us.
Leninist?
5,4,3,2,1, eyes open, wide awake feeling refreshed. Come back next week for another session;-)

Apparently, those that don’t want any of this stuff to happen, can’t even take a joke about it.
I use paper bags because trees come back faster than oil. I prefer cotton clothing over that synthetic crap that comes from oil and gas. I would very much like to be able to afford proper footwear that isn’t made from some form of synthesized oil and gas products but, when available, are outrageously priced due to the fact that they’re incredibly expensive to make. (I prefer pig and goat leather.) I have quizzed the meat managers of stores I shop at where their meat comes from and even though their stores are not aesthetically pleasing, I shop there anyway. (I don’t shop at Wallyworld.)
Energy does need to be less expensive. I enjoy the fact that I have the ability to refrigerate the food I do have to keep it from spoiling before I can eat it. Yes, I wish for others to also have this ability but, this does not mean I like all the demonized big oil companies. ( I do like Marathon.)
The free marketplace rules. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. If you do, your a hypocrite. Either that or, your too poor to do anything but that.
I have a better word. Dumbasses.

Sadly I note in some quarters these people being associated with benefits.
Where in fact I think a number of poor can ill afford to see their energy bills rise
again and this fracking will help keep bills down. As would not being signed up
to the EU rules and fines for not getting a percentage of your fuel from so called green energy.
Of course while these people want to keep fossil fuels in the ground they forget that
if they got their way then they’d send us all back to the caves, well those that survived.
And of course they would have to kiss their plastic life style in bushes.
I think the woman has plastic sun glasses.

geeze les, I feel ‘we don’t know enough to do it near homes/families/communities/villages’ (whose water comes from underground locally)
To equate that with not wanting to use the technology at all? ! ?
I even indirectly state earlier that fracking well away from populated areas would be acceptable, in my opinion.
I am amazed that city and town areas are fracked below, if that is the right way to say it. But they don’t use local ground water (water under their city/town) for drinking.
I would be suprised if there were no long term problems arising from this. I am sure I could find some actual cases if I dug around on the internet a bit.
I would seriously challenge the claim that ‘we know more about geology than any other single area of human knowledge’ – that just cannot be true. Trillions of dollars notwithstanding.
Geological time scales is a phrase use to identify the geological changes over long times, eons and millions and billions of years even.
What can you tell me of the effects of fracking in 30 years time and longer timescales (people can live in a community area for hundreds of years) on subsidence, ground water pollution, radioactive gas seepage (radon), toxic substance migration along multiple fault lines, soil effects…
there really is a lot we don’t know here – not worth the risk any where near a populated area, or area where we get a natural resource dependent on cleanliness of the ground below.

Neil says:
August 24, 2013 at 4:06 am
You wrote:
quote scientific american
“In 10 to 100 years we are going to find out that most of our groundwater is polluted,” said Mario Salazar, an engineer who worked for 25 years as a technical expert with the EPA’s underground injection program in Washington. “A lot of people are going to get sick, and a lot of people may die.”
[Self snip]
“A ProPublica review of well records, case histories and government summaries of more than 220,000 well inspections found that structural failures inside injection wells are routine. From late 2007 to late 2010, one well integrity violation was issued for every six deep injection wells examined — more than 17,000 violations nationally. More than 7,000 wells showed signs that their walls were leaking. Records also show wells are frequently operated in violation of safety regulations and under conditions that greatly increase the risk of fluid leakage and the threat of water contamination.”
Rotator cuff surgery has a success rate of about 85%. Should we stop this practice?

patrick, radon gas seeps thru the rock and soil as you know. I asked what effect fracking would have on that now, 30yrs time 100yrs time? Fracking releases gas, yes? so what would it do to the radon gas ‘issue’? I don’t know. I’ve seen no study, I don’t claim anything. But I will say that I think it will have an effect, on older places anyhow. New homes have radon barriers in areas affected by radon. What is possible is that radon is permitted through fractures to places it has not previously been found.
Alex, isn’t it just the benign flip side to the reality of the other side where big money buys everyone and profit rules. People should have a say, voice their concerns. Just because you foiund one or two habitual protestors….. its a bit like people on this forum – armchair nitpicking around an otherwise serious and sensible debate

Every year Corfe Castle receives several hundred thousand visitors. None of those visitors, at least none of those that I know of, were aware of the fracking that has been taking place only a couple of miles away for more than twenty years. I doubt if many living near some of the several other fracking sites in Britain were aware of the fracking taking place near them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/10233955/The-town-where-fracking-is-already-happening.html

Greg says: @ August 23, 2013 at 10:30 pm
…If they were protesting about drilling for oil your comments might make sense.
Since they are protesting about injecting chemicals into the ground to extract gas ( not commonly used for making plastics) your whole article is pretty STUPID and you allegations of “hypocracy” totally unfounded.
……In fact, deliberately confounding oil extraction with gas extraction in order to make a false criticism of hypocracy is pretty hypocritical in itself.
This is called projection. Nice work Eric.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Greg your IGNORANCE is showing.
The first patent for FRACKING was U.S. Patent No. 59,936 awarded in November 1866 to Civil War veteran Col. Edward A.L. Roberts. It was used to make OIL WELLS as well as natural gas wells more productive. The technology of ‘FRACKING’ has been used ever since with modifications along the way.
The Roberts Torpedo was a an iron cylinder containing between fifteen to twenty pounds of black powder. It was exploded by means of a detonation cap connected to the top of the well by a wire. The borehole was filled with water, Roberts “fluid tamping,” to concentrate the concussion. By 1868 nitroglycerin was preferred to black powder, despite the fact nitro is very very touchy and frequently detonated accidentally with fatal consequences.
On March 17, 1949, the first commercial application of modern hydraulic fracturing was made.
There is nothing NEW about this technique except the hysterics.
Which are these chemical ‘poisons’ in the fracking fluid?
Ian H answered that question back on June 24, 2013 at 3:59 am

Which chemicals in particular? About 97% of fracking fluid consists of water and quartz sand. Those are in fact the active ingredients – water to fracture the rock – and sand to prop open the cracks which have been opened. The rest typically consists of additives to keep the sand in suspension, make it easily pumpable etc. Typical additives include
1. A bactericide to prevent bacterial action underground causing corrosion of the well casing.
2. A gel (often guar gum) to thicken the fracking fluid and keep the sand in suspension.
3. A cross-linker (borate) to maintain the viscosity of the gel
4. A clay stabiliser to prevent clay minerals from clogging the well.
5. A gel breaker to prevent the gel from coagulating.
6. pH buffers to keep everything at the required pH.
7. A surfactant (detergent) to increase the slipperiness of the fracking fluid for ease of pumping.
A variety of different additives could be used to do these jobs. The exact composition is a commercial secret. But there is no real need to resort to toxic chemicals as all these things can be done with non-toxic additives. Indeed you can do it all with a combination of food additives and common household cleaning materials….
Remember that all this happens very deep down in the rocks where the petrochemicals come from – far away from the surface and the green living stuff – and well below ground water level. That deep down things generally tend to stay put. There is oil down there which hasn’t moved for millions of years (ergo fracking). The only way the fracking fluid has of getting out of that trap is generally by coming back up the well with the oil and gas – which is usually what happens.
As to the toxic chemicals leaching into water supplies – got an example? I have yet to see a real one…..

Since fracking has been used for over a hundred years WITH fracking fluid I would expect to have seen plenty of data showing ground water contamination by now.
As I said HYSTERICS without a shred of intelligence or curiosity showing. Just Sheeple following their pied piper. I am sitting in an area where the protesters are saying fracking will contaminate my well and the city water supply so I got off my duff and researched it before opening my mouth.

babsy: – ?????????????????
patrick – you need to look into the Chnbyl issue to get some facts – the whole world got dosed! Literally. I’ve seen documentaries on the deformities, post accident effects, etc and they are not pretty. It is interesting how the way you p;ut it seemed to make it sound almost ok with only a few deaths and that not too bad compare to other deaths from energy stuff. I’m sure you should not do that. and I’m sure it was sooooo much worse than you imagine.

If a Neil did not exist it would be necessary to invent one. This is beyond hilarious.

old’un – this vital revenue stream is diminishing? really? really? where are you?
gail, tell me what did you want to believe before you got off your duff and researched it? The truth is hard to discover – I would have so little confidence in the stuff you read that said go ahead.
doug thorium, radon? what point you trying to make doug? Show me.

Ferdinand Engelbeen says:
Surely Northern Holland is sinking for the same reason southern England is, namely up lift in northern Europe after the last lot of ice sheets retreated?
http://planetearth.nerc.ac.uk/news/story.aspx?id=555&cookieConsent=A

David, UK says: @ August 24, 2013 at 1:03 am
…..That includes eating meat and objecting to the way animals are reared. The point is: it’s HYPOCRISY.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bad example. You can object to certain practices in an intelligent manner. Such as inbreeding in commercial livestock and the resulting loss of the genetic diversity that makes a breed ‘Robust’ (I really hate that word)

….Purdue University animal sciences professor Bill Muir was part of an international research team that analyzed the genetic lines of commercial chickens used to produce meat and eggs around the world. Researchers found that commercial birds are missing more than half of the genetic diversity native to the species, possibly leaving them vulnerable to new diseases and raising questions about their long-term sustainability.
“Just what is missing is hard to determine,” Muir said. “But recent concerns over avian flu point to the need to ensure that even rare traits, such as those associated with disease resistance, are not totally missing in commercial flocks.”
He said it’s also important to preserve non-commercial breeds and wild birds for the purpose of safeguarding genetic diversity and that interbreeding additional species with commercial lines might help protect the industry…..
https://news.uns.purdue.edu/x/2008b/081103Muirdiversity.html

I also have a problem with the indiscriminate feeding of antibiotics again because of disease resistance problems.

Neil says: @ August 24, 2013 at 2:00 am
I’ve never seen so many stupid comments, most claiming hypocracy. Fracking is frought with problems known and as it is a new technique, some no doubt unknown – unpleasant suprises in store? ….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Your ignorance is showing the technique is over 100 years old. See my comment above

rishi says:
August 24, 2013 at 2:32 am
so, basically, i cannot protest against anything, because i have been made into a hypocrite….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It is known as putting your money where your mouth is.
If I chose to show up at one of these protests I would make D@^N sure I took public transpo or car pooled, I would wear COTTON, LINEN and WOOL. My shoes would be made of natural fibers too like a Soft Star Shoe. I would use a cotton canvas tent and an eco-friendly sleeping bag.
The fact that they do not bother makes them hypocrites. Heck back in the 1980s the Boston Globe had ads $10/hour paid for Nuclear protesters. I wonder how many of these people are PAID for their protest time. SEE: CalPIRG Astroturfing
To put it bluntly I am less of a hypocrite then these guys are because my ‘Carbon foot print’ is small and I recycle, reuse, haunt thrift shops and flea markets and buy whatever food I do not grow locally as much as possible.

gail: – the claim of hypocrisy is/was wrong. see my 1st couple of comments above

ROM says: @ August 24, 2013 at 3:42 am
It would probably be interesting to find out if the organizers and some of the leading anti-fracking activists at these so called anti fracking demonstrations are getting a considerable supplementary income via the notorious brown paper bag route…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Not at all surprising. The Wall Street Journal had a back page article about Kremlin papers showing that the Activists in the USA were not only funded by but actually LEAD by KGB agents. (April 2004) Funny how that never made the front pages….
My husband, a Bostonian, knew a fellow who ‘ran’ an extreme left newspaper. When the USSR went belly-up he had to close his newspaper and was moaning over his loss of funding.

Life is a risky business and modern life might be more so if it weren’t for a host of safety methods used during the many production, manufacturing and labor saving processes carried out to make our life better and more healthy.
The odd thing about this discussion of the dangers of minute quantities of fracking additives, no one discusses the large quantities of extremely toxic and dangerous fluids that come back out of the well in the form of hydrogen sulfide, oil, petroleum products and gas. Most of us safely handle extremely energy rich gasoline on a weekly basis (could I say explosive? the same can be said of NG).
Is anyone advocating dropping these safety methods or (really?) getting rid of the benefits of these labor saving and enjoyable outcomes?
Yes we should continue to try to eliminate the risk but we should look at the data and determine where the risk can really be found and focus on it. Mindlessly attacking proven low risk behavior is really ignorant. Politicizing your favorite demons is normal but we all need to pick our battles very carefully.
Bernie

Of course these protesters are far worse than foolishly funny, trespassing hypocrites.
They are also scurrilous liars.
Many of them know full well there is no legitimacy to their claims about fracking.
My Texas oil man brother produced a very good summary.
“When we are drilling a well, we are required to protect ALL useable groundwater to a depth specified by the Texas Commission of Environmental Quality. This depth is specified during the permitting process. The depth typically is around 1200′. Protection is by way of cementing pipe in the shallow section of the well bore. This is called surface casing. We first drill a 12 3/4″ diameter hole to 1200 feet. Then we run 8 5/8″ heavy wall seamless steel pipe to that depth with centralizers to keep it in the center of the well bore. Now we pump a calculated volume of cement down the pipe displacing it with salt water back up the outside of the pipe (annular space) until it reaches the surface. Excess cement volume is calculated to ensure we reach surface while a small amount of cement remains inside the bottom of the pipe (usually 20 – 50 feet). If less washout has occurred during drilling of the surface hole than calculated we sometimes circulate as much as 35 barrels of excess cement to surface as we displace the cement down the pipe. After all we don’t want to leave too much cement inside the pipe. Once cementing is done we must wait a minimum of 8 hours for the fast setting cement slurry to harden. During the running and cementing of the surface casing a representative of the Oil & Gas Division of the Texas Railroad Commission usually comes by to witness the process….we are required to notice them when it will be done. The composition of the cement slurry including all all additives, strengtheners and drying agents as well as the number and placing of centralizers is submitted for approval during the permitting process.
Now, and only now, that the surface hole has been properly cased can drilling continue to total depth. We go back into the cased hole with a 7 7/8″ bit and tag cement near the bottom of the surface casing and spend several hours drilling out cement until we get out of the pipe and start making open hole. The hole is then drilled to the permitted total depth, logged and cored. If it looks like it is going to be a producer the surface casing process is repeated with a string of production pipe. By this I mean we run 4 1/2″, 11.6 lb/ft steel pipe from total depth to surface, centralize and cement. Now we have 2 concentric strings of pipe protecting the groundwater and no hydrocarbon productive zone open into the well bore….that comes later during well completion operations.
By the time we move into the completion phase the drilling rig and all other equipment has been moved off. A work-over-well servicing rig is moved on location and a perforating truck is rigged up. A gun is lowered into the hole by wire line and the pipe is perforated with say 4 shots a foot through several feet of the productive zone. Our completion depths (where we perforate) are fairly shallow and are typically 4000 – 5500 feet. The perforating truck is released and the “frac” company starts mobilizing and placing equipment for the hydraulic fracturing of the well. This usually entails about 18 – 20 eighteen wheelers that include pumps, hoppers, blenders, tanks and what not. The sand laden frac fluid is pumped down the 4 1/2″ production pipe and pressured up until the rock behind the pipe and cement at the perforations breaks down or “fractures”. That pressure point is referred to as the “breakdown pressure point”. Pumping continues until the allotted sand has been delivered into the fracturing rock through the perforations via the frac fluid. Keep in mind the “fracking” occurs at an isolated zone 4000 feet below the protected ground water. After the frac job the well is shut in, all equipment except the “frac tanks” is released and the flow back of the fluid commences. Flow back is controlled to recover the fluid into surface tanks for disposal and done at a rate to ensure the sand stays in the formation as a proppant to hold the artificially created fractures open. Frac designs and computer modeling of the rock lithology show fracturing reaches out from the well bore horizontally 250 – 700 feet depending on the size of the frac. Vertical growth during the frac job is usually limited to under 200 feet and can be controlled during the frac job by adjusting the injection rate.
There you have it. Everything from depth of surface water to be protected, chemical composition of cement, number and placement of centralizers to the disposal of the recovered frac fluid is regulated. Gas in water wells from what we do? I don’t think so. Not if rules are followed. Sure there are accidents and certainly an occasional operator that gets away with not complying but all the regulations in the world won’t cure that. Nor will a ban on fracturing.”

SandyInLimousin says:
August 24, 2013 at 6:42 am
Surely Northern Holland is sinking for the same reason southern England is, namely up lift in northern Europe after the last lot of ice sheets retreated?
Yes that is right, but the “conventional” gas extraction adds to that, so that part of The Netherlands (Slochteren / Groningen) is sinking faster than the rest… Not spectacular, but measurable: maximum 35 cm over the past 50 years over an area with a diameter of 60 km around the main wells.

Neil says: @ August 24, 2013 at 4:51 am
Would you frack 1 mile from a village?
Heck I would frack under my own house and I have a well for water. Know of any companies looking for a farm for fracking NG???

Neil, more to the point is WWF, Geenpeace, Sierra Club willing to PAY ME NOT TO FRACK on MY LAND? If they are not they have STOLEN from me the value of the minerals they are not allowing me to develop.
This is what this whole mess is about. Do people have the right to own property or not. The Communists say not but they are not about to show their hand so we get the soft sell under the guise of environmentalism. It is a sheepskin hiding the wolf and that is shown by the fact people will be worse off and their wealth will be moved to the elite and their rights removed.
Heck the 2012 IMF report even shows that is what is happening.

….New convergence and strengthened interdependence coincide with a third trend, relating to income distribution. In many countries the distribution of income has become more unequal, and the top earners’ share of income in particular has risen dramatically. In the United States the share of the top 1 percent has close to tripled over the past three decades, now accounting for about 20 percent of total U.S. income (Alvaredo and others, 2012)….
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2012/09/dervis.htm

And another paper shows who is controlling the show.

The Network of Global Corporate Control
ABSTRACT
The structure of the control network of transnational corporations affects global market competition and financial stability. So far, only small national samples were studied and there was no appropriate methodology to assess control globally. We present the first investigation of the architecture of the international ownership network, along with the computation of the control held by each global player. We find that transnational corporations form a giant bow-tie structure and that a large portion of control flows to a small tightly-knit core of financial institutions. This core can be seen as an economic “super-entity” that raises new important issues both for researchers and policy makers.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0025995

These are the people actually running the show by providing the funding for the NGOs.

…”Very few of even the larger international NGOs are operationally democratic, in the sense that members elect officers or direct policy on particular issues,” notes Peter Spiro. “Arguably it is more often money than membership that determines influence, and money more often represents the support of centralized elites, such as major foundations, than of the grass roots.” (The CGG has benefited substantially from the largesse of the MacArthur, Carnegie, and Ford Foundations.) …

The Rockefeller foundations fund Greenpeace and the Sierra Club.

Wikipedia: A Pennsylvania family was forced to abandon because of fracking pollution of their 10-acre farm. The family was paid 750,000USD by Range Resources Corporation to depart from a more recently installed petroleum well plant, though the family was oddly required to sign an agreement which stated that they now nor ever will suffer any adverse medical effects from the toxic exposure.[94]
gail : you don’t own the mineral rights on your property (in Uk) anyway. You only own the top two spits of soil I believe. If someone discovered gold say 3 feet down on your property it would not be yours to sell or benefit from – the way I understand uk landlaw. You’d have to bid for it somehow for rights to extract…

“…do anti-fracking protestors think nylon tents, PVC groundsheets, and plastics grow on trees?”
Well, actually, they did grow on trees… then the trees died, got buried, got compressed and cooked underground for millions of years, when someone dug them out and processed them into whatever was needed. Plastics did grow on trees, just very old ones!
FD
PS: Sorry, I could not resist the obvious pun on a pun.

Neil says:
August 24, 2013 at 8:49 am
Dear Neil,
How it relates is very clear. There is risk and reward associated with life and it cannot be escaped. Whether it be surgery, fracking, or going to the grocery store.

Neil says:
August 24, 2013 at 7:24 am
gail: – the claim of hypocrisy is/was wrong. see my 1st couple of comments above
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No Neil YOU are wrong.
If you are not willing to live the lifestyle you wish to CONDEMN the rest of us to then you are a hypocrite. The biggest hypocrites are people like Al Gore and Maurice Strong who grow rich by scamming people like you.
If you do not understand exactly what the consequences are of removing oil, natural gas and coal from the world’s energy mix and substituting grossly polluting and environmentally unfriendly bat-chomping, bird-slicing eco crucifixes then you are criminally ignorant and should keep your mouth shut.
I did my homework. We looked at wind mills, solar panels and geothermal as options and the only one that showed promise once you scratched the surface was replacing our heat pump with geothermal. The other was Biogas from Manure but it is not economically feasible for a small operation due to regulations and cost.

mogamboguru says:
August 24, 2013 at 9:05 am

Personally, I think that poisoning potable water with hydrocarbons and natural gas by destroying the layers of rock which are separating oil and gas from water so much, that you can set the water pouring from your kitchen’s water-tab on fire, is not a viable long-term solution for our energy-needs.

Ah, you are a Gasland and Promised Land victim. Sorry to hear that. Qatar, UAE and other oil rich Arab countries though is pleased so many believed the lies.

Neil you need a BS detector big time. ,
If you were simply a wee bit more curious and clicked further you would see how unrelated to fracking that family’s circumstance was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_Resources
Here’s a pic of fracking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HydroFrac2.svg
They did not “abandon” their farm because of fracking.

cynical_scientist says:
August 23, 2013 at 8:33 pm
As an anonymous coward hiding behind a pseudonyn, I really liked the quotation from Oscar Wilde.
What’s your real name, cynical_scientist? 🙂

@ferdinand meeus Engelbeen
Seems like large portions of Holland are sinking with or without any sort of drilling.
“Large areas of the Netherlands are sinking, often to below sea level. “The Netherlands is a bathtub that could fill up completely in case of flooding,” according to one researcher. But the authorities say there is no cause for alarm. Sea and river water is kept out by natural sand dunes and man-made dykes.”
“In some parts of the Netherlands the ground level has sunk over the past millennium by as much as three metres, at a rate of 15mm a year. The subsidence is caused by the compression of ancient peat layers – weak soil consisting of dead vegetation. The weight of clay and sand on top is gradually compressing the peat layers.”
http://www.rnw.nl/africa/article/holland-sinking-no-cause-alarm
WUWT?
Bernie

Rishi says
‘so, basically, i cannot protest against anything, because i have been made into a hypocrite…i cannot protest against gmo food, because i eat it; i cannot protest against the bad air, because i am breathing it; i cannot protest against any chemicals, because i am using them and i cannot protest against bad land use, because i am part of the problem.’
looks like you can’t protest against bad grammar and punctuation either

“I’m always gobsmacked at the ignorance and complete cognitive dissonance of the green mentality.”
You shouldn’t be. If they were smart, they wouldn’t be Greens.
The Green movement may have been well-intentioned when it was formed, but today it’s just Communism by another name. Most of the ‘protestors’ are just typical Leninist ‘useful idiots’, and the only sad part is that anyone listens to them.

“You’re mistaking the leaking of injection wells, with leaking of fractures. The vast majority of well leaks are from casing failure, or failure of the cement sheath. The leaks are localized, but still must be repaired. ”
and are routinely accomplished unless the envio-nazis have forced them to drill more than a mile underwater.

I’d love to see what these anencephalics would do if you suddenly took away all the things pictured in the photo, and told them they could never have anything made from petroleum again.
I think they would be like a clam out of its shell.

@Gail Combs –
You make so many excellent points with which I heartily agree, but I would point out the following:
Geothermal also can have a dirty little secret. The installations at the Geysers in California are a case in point. The effluent that comes back up after injecting the steam into the wells is laden with toxic heavy metals, including arsenic, selenium, lead, mercury, thallium and hexavalent chromium, and it is very difficult and expensive to remove them. I learned this while working for a municipal electric utility here in California that gets some power [from] the Geysers plant.

Re: Chad Wozniak
> Geothermal also can have a dirty little secret.
Geothermal has to frack to create an underground reservoir for the pumped water to get the heat. The two projects in Cornwall I pointed to earlier intend to create this reservoir in granite formations and thus will release any radon in the granite.
NOTE: I have no issue with them fracking for geothermal, neither do I have an issue with any radon released as result. I do have an issue with people objecting to fracking for oil or gas and giving geothermal a free pass.

Neil,
So glad you’re smart enough to not put anyone down during a debate.
I wouldn’t use gobsmacked in reference to your appearance here.
Faceplant is more like it.

Neil says:
August 24, 2013 at 12:42 pm
Gail/Miller:-
I’m often gobsmacked at the ….
Stop going ad hominem Neil.
Gail explained above what US patents are used for fracking and what chemicals are involved:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/08/23/friday-funny-fracking-protestors-and-their-petro-sourced-belongings/#comment-1398935
I like reading her posts which are often well said, well documented and well argued.
Neil If you have arguments post them. If you fail to convince is maybe because your arguments are weak, and maybe you are not right.
Think about it.

IIRC anyone in Balcombe can drill down in to the aquifer, but they are restricted to pumping 80 tons a day.

Lol. “They don’t make hippies like they used to” Actually, they do. And we’re here, doing research, knowing exactly what we speak out against, and trying to raise children with values that are outdated(Like it’s your social responsibility to pay pennies on the dollar in the form of taxes to keep the roads, and schools, and poor folk fed, and that if you want money or something new and fun, you work hard for it, and we don’t get a new version of something when the old one works perfectly well). I was also raised to smoke a bowl in gratitude with my dealer, use my boobs when the guys I’m playing poker with have a better hand, and to know that spreading my legs and getting pregnant to every guy that smiles at you is wrong.

From Gail Combs on August 24, 2013 at 8:24 am:

This is what this whole mess is about. Do people have the right to own property or not.

No, we do not have the right to own land. When we are required to pay property taxes to the state or we shall be evicted by the state who will then assume control, we are clearly not owning. At best we are leasing from the state. The state can even kick us out with notice if they give us back the deposit with interest (eminent domain, fair market value) so someone else can have it.
And although technically we normally have the mineral rights in the US, remember the state is more than eager to ratchet up those property tax valuations whenever possible. “Improve” the property with some gas wells, there goes the property taxes upwards. And just about the only thing that makes the state lower the valuations is a National or State Park declaration, since the state avoids overcharging itself. You may “own” the property and the rights, but the state will find a dozen ways to get its share of any money you make off of their property.
Heck, we don’t even have the right to harvest the critters on our property, we have to beg the state for hunting and fishing licenses, while paying the state for the privilege although we are doing the work, and must follow their rules. I’m just grateful here in Pennsylvania we can still control our trees, cut them down and even sell them, usually. As long as the state doesn’t decree it to be farming, which they control.
Crops, fish and game, such truly naturally renewable resources are regulated by the state, like it was the state that owned them.
And others? Don’t even think about doing anything with hydro power without checking the regulations. Be prepared for nosy noisy “environmentalists” to demand “impact statements”, even if it’s just dipping a small open-bladed turbine into a fast-flowing stream. Wind and solar are protected darlings right now, but don’t expect carte blanche, they’ll get you there if they can. Check regulations, get permits and inspections, or else.
People do not have the right to own property. But they are allowed to pretend they do.
Isn’t involuntary serfdom fun?

Neil, others (me included) have read your comments, and more importantly we have read most of what the “other” side have had to say. Their arguments are weak, their science weaker, their conclusions weaker still.
For instance, 99% of what you write about fraking is wrong, period. How do I know? 2 years of actual boots on the ground experience. I currently work in the Eagle Ford oil field, and have also worked the Bakken as well as oil fields in Wyoming and Colorado. None of the environmental disasters you claim have happened anywhere I’ve been, just good modern technology working to help provide the nation with much needed hydrocarbons. I have talked to dozens of landowners, engineers and safety personnel, not to mention the fact my brother in law has lived in North Dakota for almost 40 years and not a single person I have talked to has seen nor heard of any environmental damage, less disaster.
My suggestion is get off your as…….couch and go to these places you hear or “know” are hell on earth. Until then, you believe what you want but don’t ascribe ill intent on those who disagree with your pablum.

_Jim says:
Anecdotal; we need cites. There are some reading here who won’t believe you…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Jim I have looked for that blasted article several times. Unfortunately we were in the middle of the move to NC and all the back issues of the WSJ got tossed. I haven’t steeled myself to go to a library and dig through several months of the WSJ to find that article again. (It is not on the net)

ralfellis says: @ August 24, 2013 at 10:22 am
…..One wonders if these Eco-Goons want to see the destruction of Europe as a wealthy technological region.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Unfortunately the answer is yes.
I have a friend who is a professor at one of the NC colloges. He is always pushing global warming has a booth he sets up at various places…. I asked him if he wasn’t worried that his daughter would have a reduced lifestyle because of what he was advocating. He said yes he was aware his child would not have the advantages and life style he did but she was OK with that. A few minutes later his 10 year old grabbed my hand to take me over to look at Daddy’s brand new SUV and talk about when she grew up and could have a horse of her own.

@terry S –
I agree it is hypocritical of the greens to give geothermal a pass for fracking, while opposing doing it for hydrocarbons.
I brought up the issue of geothermal as a “renewable” because it too can have environmental issues that the greens ignore. It is definitely not free energy, and could well be dirtier than hydrocarbon fracking.

kadaka (KD Knoebel) says: @ August 24, 2013 at 4:09 pm
….People do not have the right to own property. But they are allowed to pretend they do.
Isn’t involuntary serfdom fun?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
SIGHhh, you are correct. (I just try not to notice I am a free range slave.)
2009– Year of the Slave
You are a slave.
You probably do not realize it, but you are….

These protesters are rich kids who think that high energy prices and supply security cannot threaten them. This coming winter may educate them otherwise.

By the way, what I hear about what sort of sewage materials some organic gardeners use on their crops, I would be hard pressed to buy organic produce.