IPCC Brand Science™ – extrapolating 10 himalayan glaciers to speak for 54,000 – meanwhile Himalayagate 2 is evolving over the Stern Report

10/54,000 = .0185 % That’s an impressively small sample size. Apparently Pachauri’s zeal to get back the Himalayagate claim of melting by 2035 outweighs any rational attempts at science. In any other discipline, a sample size this small would be laughed off as ridiculous, but this is climate science, where ridiculous has become the norm, especially when trotted out for the Durban Climate Conference.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Himalayas_landsat_7.png/320px-Himalayas_landsat_7.png
Himalayas from NASA Landsat 7 Satellite. Click for a larger image

Excerpts from the UK telegraph:

Himalayan glaciers are melting, says IPCC research

The Himalayan glaciers are melting after all, according to new research released by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

The research was released in an effort to draw a line under the embarrassing mistakes made about the effects of global warming on the region in the past.

The IPCC were forced to apologise for claiming that the Himalayan glaciers would melt by 2035.

The 2009 scandal, known as ‘Himalayagate’ led to criticism of the IPCC, a group of scientists convened by the United Nations to warn governments around the world about the effects of climate change.

In an effort to move on from the embarrassing episode, Dr Rajendra Pachauri, Chairman of the IPCC, has now announced that the latest statistics show the glaciers are melting, according to the limited amount of science available.

The reports, presented at the UN climate change talks in Durban were brought together by the the Kathmandu-based International Centre for Integrated Mountain Development (ICIMOD).

One three year study, funded by Sweden, found that of 10 glaciers measured in the region all are shrinking, with a marked acceleration in loss of ice between 2002 and 2005.

==============================================================

“…funded by Sweden” Does anyone care to place any bets on WWF and/or Greenpeace involvement in this? I’m sure Donna Leframboise will take a good look into this one.

Meanwhile, here’s all the reason you need not to trust anything the IPCC says. This comment left on our open thread today from Roger Knights is about as growing into  Himalayagate 2 as you can get:

Three Strikes Against the IPCC’s Asia Group (By Roger Knights)

(Summary: This post points out the cherry picking of quotations by the IPCC’s Asia group to spice up its widely publicized claim that 3/4 of a billion Asians were at risk of water shortages from glacier-melt.)

Here’s a bone for the gang to gnaw on and flesh out (to mangle a metaphor). I haven’t fully researched the matter, but what I’ve noticed is intriguing.

During a dispute with one of the one-star Amazon-reviewers (T. Bruner) of Donna Laframboise’s Delinquent Teenager book about the IPCC, I wrote:

“She [DL] wrote, at Location 763 in Chapter 14: ‘When the IPCC declared that three-quarters of a billion people in India and China depend on glaciers for their water supply, is it not strange that its only source for this claim was the Stern review?’ The link she supplied there takes one to that section of the IPCC report, 10.4.2, where one can see the single citation for oneself, as I have done.”

(My exchange with T. Bruner starts on the 5th comments page of his review, linked to below, but the most relevant material is on the 6th page. http://www.amazon.com/review/R3D6YKUGYE4WA0/ref=cm_cd_pg_pg5?ie=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2983WIRKIRW6A&cdPage=5&asin=B005UEVB8Q&store=digital-text&cdThread=TxO5HUAZSS2GUT#wasThisHelpful )

Bruner pointed out that the Stern Review in turn had cited, as its authority for that statement, Barnett et al., which, unlike Stern, was a peer-reviewed and before-the-deadline publication. He added that the Fresh Water Group had cited Barnett alone, in Section 3.4.3 (of AR4).

This made me wonder: Why had the Asia group taken the risk of violating the IPCC’s rules by citing Stern alone? Wouldn’t citing Barnett in addition, or instead, have been prudent?

It’s unlikely that the group hadn’t been aware of the Barnett paper, given that it was cited by Stern, and given its relevance, recency, and prominent & prestigious source, which could be found in Stern’s bibliography:

Barnett, T.P., J.C, Adam, and D.P. Lettenmaier (2005): ‘Potential impacts of a warming climate on water availability in snow-dominated regions’, Nature 438: 303-309

So this relevant, recent, and prestigiously published primary source, Nature, which all contributors had access to in their libraries, was omitted in favor of citing a gray, secondary, after-the-deadline (2007, hence unpublished per the IPCC’s rules) source. (It’s not cited anywhere in the Asia Group’s chapter, per its References section.)

Why? Let’s get started by looking at what the two sources and the Asia Group said. I’ve emphasized the most pertinent passages. (h/t to T. Bruner for the quotes.):

1. Barnett et al., as summarized by the Fresh Water Group, in AR4 WGII Section 3.4.3:

“Hence, water supply in areas fed by glacial melt water from the Hindu Kush and Himalayas, on which hundreds of millions of people in China and India depend, will be negatively affected (Barnett et al., 2005).”

Go to 5th paragraph, last sentence, here:

http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg2/en/ch3s3-4-3.html

2. Stern Review, 2007, Section 3.2, page 63:

“Climate change will have serious consequences for people who depend heavily on glacier meltwater to maintain supplies during the dry season, including large parts of the Indian sub-continent, over quarter of a billion people in China, and tens of millions in the Andes. (Barnett et al., 2005)”

Go to p. 8 at this link: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/Chapter_3_How_climate_change_will_affect_people_around_the_world_.pdf

4. Asia Group, in AR4 WGII Section 10.4.2.1:

“Climate change-related melting of glaciers could seriously affect half a billion people in the Himalaya-Hindu-Kush region and a quarter of a billion people in China who depend [unqualified] on glacial melt for their water supplies (Stern, 2007).”

Go to the second paragraph, second sentence, here: http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg2/en/ch10s10-4-2.html

Strike one: If the Asia group had cited Barnett at all it would have exposed its claims about three-quarters of a billion and “seriously affected” as being hyperbole. (Barnett et al. had used the less-exaggerated, less-alarmist words, “hundreds of millions” and “negatively affected.”) It’s not a big leap to infer that that was the motive for its omission. What other motive could there have been?

(“Hundreds of millions” suggests the lower end of the one-hundred-million-to-one-billion range. If Barnett et al. had had three-quarters of a billion in mind when they wrote “hundreds of millions,” they’d likely have indicated that they were thinking of the upper part of the range by saying something like “over a half-billion” or “many hundreds of millions.”)

Strike two: The Asia Group lied by omission by omitting Stern’s key qualification, “during the dry season.” Including it would have muted the alarmist impact of their sentence. It’s not a big leap to infer that that was the motive for its omission. What other motive could there have been?

Strike three: The Asia Group’s gray-lit-backed claim of a 2035 melt-by date now looks likely to be a similarly culpable instance of cherry-picking in the service of alarmist hyperbole, rather than clueless unfamiliarity with the dynamics of glaciers. They were likely knaves, not fools, in other words.

One reason it’s “likely” is the context provided by the two “strikes” above. Another reason is the context provided by their refusal to correct the error in their 2035 melt-by date when reviewers pointed it out to them, and their turning a deaf ear to Dr. Georg Kaser’s subsequent attempts to have it corrected.

(I’m skeptical of the IPCC’s excuse that Kaser sent his first complaint to the wrong department—wouldn’t they have forwarded it?—and that his second letter wasn’t received—a “likely story.” It seems more likely to me that the group couldn’t possibly admit to ignoring his letters—so it didn’t.)

Strike four: The three strikes above suggest that the IPCC has been infected by gang-of-green alarmism. The IPCC’s apologists have spun a deceptive damage-control message about the 2035 error by attributing it to ignorance, not malice—to cluelessness, not culpability. In the context of the deceptive pattern described above, that’s hard to believe.

Obviously, it would be awkward for the IPCC if the second interpretation gained traction, because that would raise the questions, “Where did the gangrene start?”, “How far has it spread?”, “Is amputation needed?”, and “Or maybe a mercy killing?”.

Paging Dr. Kevorkian!

========

For a brief history of Himalaya-gate, see my comment here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/17/the-wit-and-wisdom-of-real-climate-scientist-dr-ray-pierrehumbert/#comment-683880

=============================================================

It gets even better, commenter DirkH adds in the same thread:

The funniest part is that the IPCC report contains a table of glaciers and the speed with which they retreat or grow. ON THE SAME PAGE AS THE 2035 DATE!

http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg2/en/ch10s10-6-2.html

The only part they left out is the length of the glaciers; in the case of the Gangotri, for instance, 30km. So obviously nobody of them ever did this mental exercise called “computing” where you divide a length by a yearly distance to get an estimate of the number of years that have to pass until the thing is gone. This is, as the media repeatedly told us, the Gold Standard of climate science, and serves as the blueprint for all future international scientific collaborations under the UN.

Here’s the IPCC errata and table 10.9:

(Errata)

Glaciers in the Himalaya are receding faster than in any other part of the world (see Table 10.9) and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 and perhaps sooner is very high if the Earth keeps warming at the current rate. Its total area will likely shrink from the present 500,000 to 100,000 km2 by the year 2035 (WWF, 2005).

So let’s do the math for Gangotri glacier, which according to Wikipedia: The glacier is about 30 kilometres long (19 miles) and 2 to 4 km (1 to 2 mi) wide.

30 kilometers (30,000 meters) divided by 28 meters/year = 1071.4 years for Gangotri glacier to disappear at the current retreat rate.

That’s a bit further out than 2035.

UPDATE: I’ve updated IPCC table 10.9 and it is shown below with two column additions. I was unable to find a reference for length of the the Ponting Glacier but if someone can locate it I’ll update the table to include it.

Note that the Pindari Glacier does have a chance of disappearing by 2035 if the rate of retreat keeps up. Perhaps that one was the source of confirmation bias. Looking at this photo from Wikipedia though…

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/Pindari_glacier%2C_Uttarakhand%2C_India.jpg/640px-Pindari_glacier%2C_Uttarakhand%2C_India.jpg

…it looks rather “dirty” with a lot of albedo reducing components in it. That might explain why it is melting at a much faster rate than all the others.

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December 4, 2011 7:21 pm

Who is really funding the WWF and Green Peace?
We need FOIA to “liberate” the books.
REPLY: Unfortunately, NGO’s are not subject to FOIA – Anthony

John F. Hultquist
December 4, 2011 7:26 pm

“not” subject ??

crosspatch
December 4, 2011 7:36 pm

0458.txt is interesting. It appears to have started with discussion of some program concerning how changes in the Indian monsoon may have impacts on the glaciers.
Clare Goodess at UEA says:

Sushma rang me about this on Friday and Gregor later emailed me. It is possible that Cubasch may be leading things from the German side. Sushma may also talk to Goswami at IITM, Pune. And I have a potentially useful contact with WWF India in Delhi. Have not heard about any other potential consortia (e.g., from UKIERI community). Thinking back to last year’s meeting in Pune, Geoff Boulton could well be interested/involved in this.
Clare

That was in December 2007
So apparently there are “useful” connections between WWF and UEA (again).

December 4, 2011 7:39 pm

I would love to know who is funding those two. I know Greenpeace makes money off their organic food. Not sure if they grow it, sell it or what.
On a different note, I have been having a discusson with Andrew E. Derocher, Ph.D.
Professor
Department of Biological Sciences
University of Alberta
Edmonton, AB
T6G 2E9
[SNIP: If Dr. DeRocher did not give explicit permission to publish this we’re not going to. REP]
http://www.biology.ualberta.ca/faculty/andrew_derocher/
on his Coke funded polar bear high artic retreat. (I really want to be there when they herd those polar bears into it.) I sent him “Millennial-Scale Cycling of Climate in Disko Bugt, West Greenland”
explaining that since polar bears lived through the RWP and MWP which were warmer than now, I felt they were in no risk.
His response-Dear Eve,
It is an interesting paper but I have not read it in detail. The paper doesn’t mention anthropogenic global warming. I couldn’t find where this point is supported by the paper “And it can thus be appreciated that 20th-century global warming was only to be expected to occur when it did, and that it could reasonably be expected that the region may warm even more before cooling again, for it still has a ways to go to equal the warmth of the Roman Warm Period or even the Medieval Warm Period, which in many locations was also warmer than it is currently.” I gather this is the interpretation of some other than the authors? The whole problem with historic climate records is that they provide little insight on future conditions unless they relate to carbon dioxide levels. They can tell what sorts of biological communities exist in an area and clearly, as this paper shows, tell us about temperature patterns. The problem is simple, carbon dioxide levels are increasing, carbon dioxide is a greenhouse case, and unless we suspend the laws of physics, the climate will continue to warm and it will warm far beyond the current levels.
The paper shows (Figure 6f) that the current terrestrial temperatures are much warmer now than than anything in the past 2000 years. When it comes to the dynamics of water masses (which this paper is examining) the issue is much more complex and I have not examined such patterns.
Interesting paper nonetheless.
Sincerely yours,
Andrew
[SNIP: I’m presuming you did not intend to print the reply twice. -REP]

Gail Combs
December 4, 2011 7:40 pm

misterjohnqpublic says:
December 4, 2011 at 7:21 pm
Who is really funding the WWF and Green Peace?
We need FOIA to “liberate” the books.
REPLY: Unfortunately, NGO’s are not subject to FOIA – Anthony
_______________________
Someone did some digging
http://www.ogiek.org/indepth/whit-man-game-wwf.htm
http://www.undueinfluence.com/wwf.htm

Gail Combs
December 4, 2011 7:43 pm

For who is funding what also check the foundations at Activist Cash (Click on choice bar under header) http://activistcash.com/index_organizations.cfm

Lew Skannen
December 4, 2011 7:48 pm

OK. So if current trends accelerate at the current rate of acceleration then a glacier the size of Jupiter will disappear from the Himalayas every year for the next trillion years until 2050…

December 4, 2011 7:50 pm

thanks for all the hard work anthony and all
this may help wwf info
http://www.appinsys.com/globalwarming/globalgovernance.htm

crosspatch
December 4, 2011 7:55 pm

WWF’s international headquarters are in Gland, Switzerland, and the organization has 28 national branches. The U.S. branch maintains its headquarters in Washington, D.C. William K. Reilly is the current Board Chair of WWF-US, and Kathryn Fuller is the current President. Fuller also chairs the Executive Committee of the Ford Foundation’s Board of Trustees.

WWF received over $30 million in foundation grants between 1994 and 2004. Leading contributors include the David and Lucile Packard Foundation, the Ford Foundation, the Pew Charitable Trusts, the Blue Moon Fund, the Geraldine R. Dodge Foundation, the Energy Foundation, the Joyce Foundation, the J.M. Kaplan Fund, the W.K. Kellogg Foundation, the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, the Minneapolis Foundation, the Summit Foundation, the Turner Foundation, and many others. WWF also realizes substantial income from private donations and its sale of periodicals. As of 2004, the organization’s net assets totaled $169,065,633.” Its revenues that year were $112,001,561.
WWF’s public relations are handled by David Fenton (of Fenton Communications).

The same Fenton Communications that provides us with such wonderful sites as “Real” Climate.

Anthony Scalzi
December 4, 2011 8:06 pm

Triloknath Glacier ~5km 5km/15.4m=325years
http://www.portal.gsi.gov.in/pls/gsipub/pkg_ptl_search_pages.pViewOldReportDtl?inpReportId=1994002&inpFSPId=4458
Pindari Glacier 3.2km 3.2km/135.2m=24years
http://margholidays.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=107&Itemid=98
Milam Glacier 16km 16km/13.2m=1212years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milam_Glacier
Ponting Glacier ?(couldn’t find length)
Ch(h)ota Shigri Glacier 9km 9km/6.7m=1343years
http://etienne.berthier.free.fr/download/Wagnon_et_al_JOG_2007.pdf
Bara Shigri 11km 11km/36.1m=305years
http://www.peakadventuretour.com/bara-shigri.html
Gangotri Glacier 30.2km/23m=1313years
Zemu Glacier ~26km 26km/27.7m=939years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zemu_glacier
It’s worse than we thought. (TM)
Just like mutant tree rings form Yamal,the 2035 date comes from just ONE glacier, the Pindari Glacier.
Also, it’s interesting to note the the IPCC’s OWN DATA shows that the Gangotri Glacier is SLOWING its retreat, not speeding up.
REPLY: Thanks I just did the same calcs for all and added a table, I see you also had trouble with Ponting – Anthony Watts

Werner Brozek
December 4, 2011 8:06 pm

“One three year study, funded by Sweden, found that of 10 glaciers measured in the region all are shrinking, with a marked acceleration in loss of ice between 2002 and 2005.
However the studies also say more research needs to be done as only 10 of the 54,000 glaciers in the region have been studied regularly.”
Exactly what caused the “marked acceleration” between 2002 and 2005. It could not have been global warming according to the Hadcrut3 data. The anomalies for 2002 to 2005 are 0.465, 0.475, 0.447 and 0.482. So the maximum difference is 0.035 C during these 4 years. Average thermometers cannot even measure a difference of 0.035 degrees.
The average of these 4 years is 0.467. The average of the years 2006 to 2011 is 0.405. So why are we not told in this “new research” what has happened over the last 6 years? Did the melting drastically slow down?

Anthony Scalzi
December 4, 2011 8:29 pm

I also meant to add that I find it odd that Pindari and Ponting Glaciers were included when they don’t have any recent data, certainly not from after AGW is supposed to have kicked in significantly.

Timo Soren
December 4, 2011 8:34 pm

Please be careful when leading with an implication of a poor sample when citing a .0185% number. It is not any standard requirement to hit any specific % of the sample. It is the sample type: SRS, convenience, stratified etc.. and the sample size that make an inpact.

crosspatch
December 4, 2011 8:37 pm

Werner Brozek says:
December 4, 2011 at 8:06 pm

A lot depends on the precipitation patterns. The last few years they have had significant rains in that part of the world as weather fronts have become stalled and rains have persisted in one location resulting in severe floods. Great amounts of rainfall on the glaciers also cause them to retreat quickly. We are seeing much larger amounts of rain in the mountains of Pakistan. This might be one possible source of data for academics:
http://www.icimod.org/?q=254

joshua Corning
December 4, 2011 9:01 pm

“In any other discipline, a sample size this small would be laughed off as ridiculous”
Opinion and political polls question about 1000 people.
With 300 million people in the US that comes out to be about .00033%.
Just saying.
REPLY: I see your point but Politics isn’t what I would think of as a discipline – Anthony

John
December 4, 2011 9:11 pm

Unfortunatley glaciers don’t retreat (or flow) at uniform speeds. Additionally they are not a uniform thickness…the upper portions are generally thicker and likely to retreat slower than the lower portions. Moreover, glaciers tend to surge rather than flow at a uniform speed (the lower parts of the glacier could be moving faster than the upper parts of the glacier (think of the way a caterpillar moves).
To me, those rates, which seem to be based on only a few years data are rather dubious. The rate likely doesn’t take into account accumulation of snow (and ice) in the upper portions…only the retreat at the thinner and faster flowing lower end of the glaciers, so I would view these rates as an upper end and not an average.

John
December 4, 2011 9:16 pm

Another thing…the rate for the Pindari glacier (135.2 m/yr) doesn’t seem right. According to the table, between the years 1845 and 1966 (i.e. over 121 years) the glacier retreated 2840 m, which equates to a rate of approx 23.5 m/yr. Am I missing something here…I might be oversimplifying this?

WillieB
December 4, 2011 9:23 pm

There appears to be an error with the IPCC’s math regarding the Pindari Glacier.
1966-1845=121 years
2840m/121yrs=23.47m/yr not 135.2m/yr
3.000m/23.47m/yr=127.8 years
The IPCC table is wrongly based on mistakenly using 1945 instead of 1845.
1966-1945=21yrs
2840m/21years=135.2m/yr

Clive
December 4, 2011 9:36 pm

I am confused!
The “glaciers melting” warnings all sound the same. “When they are gone, water supplies will dwindle. Woe is us.” . Now all of this is predicated on bad AGW, right?
But if the glaciers were growing, and it was getting colder (not a good thing) then what happens to annual water supplies? My aging logic tells me there would be less water going down the rivers because more is being tied up in glaciers. I do not know, it just seems as if that would be so.
They can argue, “Well there is more ice in winter and some can melt in summer. All is good.” But the warmers want glaciers to grow (and we all know what happens to societies and economies in ice ages) and the record is clear that cold periods are dry periods.
Methinks that when the glaciers start growing again (as Gore et al apparently want), then there will be less water. I suppose it way more complex than that.
Mind you, parts of Canuckistan will so damn cold we won’t care about watering crops and gardens. ☺

John
December 4, 2011 9:38 pm

Regarding the rate of the Pindari glacier…if you divide 2840 m of retreat by 21 (i.e. 1945 to 1966 and NOT 1845 to 1966!!) you get 135.2 m/yr. Either the date is wrong or the rate is wrong.

johanna
December 4, 2011 9:45 pm

Timo Soren says:
December 4, 2011 at 8:34 pm
Please be careful when leading with an implication of a poor sample when citing a .0185% number. It is not any standard requirement to hit any specific % of the sample. It is the sample type: SRS, convenience, stratified etc.. and the sample size that make an inpact.
————————————————————-
Agree, Timo, this could be better expressed. For example, if one is studying plankton, you would be doing well to get anything like .0185% of a population as a sample. And a much lower percentage would be perfectly fine to work with, if your study design was appropriate.
OTOH, when dealing with rivers, or mountains, (or glaciers), in a large area like the Himalayas, the percentage is almost irrelevant, as each has unique features. It would be like making a blanket statement about all the rivers in North America, based on measuring one variable in less than a dozen of them – just nonsense. As this latest effort is.

December 4, 2011 9:57 pm

It is a great and sad irony that most of the big foundations in America were originally funded by large, successful capitalistic ventures but are now run by socialists who do all they can to undermine capitalism.

AntonyIndia
December 4, 2011 10:03 pm

1) Some Himalayan glaciers are melting due to black carbon from diesel and wood fires in India and China.
2) South Asia does NOT depend on melt water but on the massive summer monsoon rains.

P.G. Sharrow
December 4, 2011 10:08 pm

The life blood of a glacier is lots of snow! not cold. Warm wet air up drafting on cold mountains yields heavy snows. I once lived in an area that got up to 100 feet of snow a year and a lot of spring rain and barely below freezing all winter. The local canyons were filled with very deep wind deposited wet snow and real glaciers. The Pindari Glacier looks to be a old snow field and not a real glacier. Real glaciers are made up of ice and are sapphire blue in the sun with a white top coating of snow and crushed ice. pg

AntonyIndia
December 4, 2011 10:10 pm

The IPCC’s favorite – the Pindari glacier- is one of the most favorite tourist attractions of all Indian Himalayan glaciers the last few decades: http://www.uttaranchaltourism.in/pindari-glacier.html
Not exactly a text book case of an undisturbed observation, but par for The CAGW Cause.

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