By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
I am very grateful for the many thoughtful postings in response to my outline of the fundamental theoretical upper bound of little more than 1.2 K on climate sensitivity imposed by the process-engineering theory of maintaining the stability of an object on which feedbacks operate. Here are some answers to points raised by correspondents.
Iskandar says, “None of these feedbacks or forcings are ever given in the form of a formula.” In fact, there are functions for the forcings arising from each of the principal species of greenhouse gas: they are tabulated in Myhre et al., 1998, and cited with approval in IPCC (2001. 2007). However, Iskandar is right about temperature feedbacks. Here, the nearest thing to a formula for a feedback is the Clausius-Clapeyron relation, which states that the space occupied by the atmosphere is capable of carrying near-exponentially more water vapor as it warms. However, as Paltridge et al. (2009) have indicated, merely because the atmosphere can carry more water vapor there is no certainty that it does. The IPCC’s values for this and other feedbacks are questionable. For instance, Spencer and Braswell (2010, 2011, pace Dessler, 2010, 2011) have challenged the IPCC’s estimate of the cloud feedback. They find it as strongly negative (attenuating the warming that triggers it) as the IPCC finds it strongly positive (amplifying the original warming), implying a climate sensitivity of less than 1 K. Since feedbacks account for almost two-thirds of all warming in the IPCC’s method, and since it is extremely difficult to measure – still less to provide a formula for – the values of individual temperature feedbacks, an effort such as mine to identify a constraint on the magnitude of all feedbacks taken together is at least worth trying.
Doug says we cannot be sure when the dolomitic rocks were formed. What is certain, however, according to Professor Ian Plimer, who gave me the information, is that they cannot form unless the partial pressure of CO2 above the ocean in which they form is 30%, compared with today’s 0.04%. Yet, during the long era when CO2 concentrations were that high, glaciers came and went, twice, at sea level, and at the equator. Even allowing for the fact that the Sun was a little fainter then, and that the Earth’s albedo was higher, the presence of those glaciers where there are none today does raise some questions about the forcing effect of very high CO2 concentrations, and, a fortiori, about the forcing effect of today’s mere trace concentration. However, in general Doug’s point is right: it is unwise to put too much weight on results from the paleoclimate, particularly when there is so much scientific dispute about the results from today’s climate that we can measure directly.
Dirk H and the inimitable Willis Eschenbach, whose fascinating contributions to this column should surely be collected and published as a best-seller, point out that I am treating feedbacks as linear when some of them are non-linear. For the math underlying non-linear feedbacks, which would have been too lengthy to include in my posting, see e.g. Roe (2009). Roe’s teacher was Dick Lindzen, who is justifiably proud of him. However, for the purpose of the present argument, it matters not whether feedbacks are linear or non-linear: what matters is the sum total of feedbacks as they are in our own time, which is multiplied by the Planck parameter (of which more later) to yield the closed-loop gain whose upper bound was the focus of my posting. Of course I agree with Willis that the non-linearity of many feedbacks, not to mention that all or nearly all of them cannot be measured directly, makes solving the climate-sensitivity equation difficult. But, again, that is why I have tried the approach of examining a powerful theoretical constraint on the absolute magnitude of the feedback-sum. Since the loop gain in the climate object cannot exceed 0.1 (at maximum) without rendering the climate so prone to instability that runaway feedbacks that have not occurred in the past would be very likely to have occurred, the maximum feedback sum before mutual amplification cannot exceed 0.32: yet the IPCC’s implicit central estimate of the feedback sum is 2.81.
Roger Knights rightly takes me to task for a yob’s comma that should not have been present in my posting. I apologize. He also challenges my use of the word “species” for the various types of greenhouse gas: but the word “species” is regularly used by the eminent professors of climatology at whose feet I have sat.
R. de Haan cites an author whose opinion is that warming back-radiation returned from the atmosphere back to the surface and the idea that a cooler system can warm a warmer system are “unphysical concepts”. I know that the manufacturers of some infra-red detectors say the detectors do not measure back-radiation but something else: however, both Mr. de Haan’s points are based on a common misconception about what the admittedly badly-named “greenhouse effect” is. The brilliant Chris Essex explains it thus: when outgoing radiation in the right wavelengths of the near-infrared meets a molecule of a greenhouse gas such as CO2, it sets up a quantum resonance in the gas molecule, turning it into a miniature radiator. This beautifully clear analogy, when I recently used it in a presentation in New Zealand, won the support of two professors of climatology in the audience. The little radiators that the outgoing radiation turns on are not, of course, restricted only to radiating outwards to space. They radiate in all directions, including downwards – and that is before we take into account non-radiative transports such as subsidence and precipitation that bring some of that radiation down to Earth. So even the IPCC, for all its faults, is not (in this respect, at any rate) repealing the laws of thermodynamics by allowing a cooler system to warm a warmer system, which indeed would be an unphysical concept.
Gary Smith politely raised the question whether the apparently sharp ups and downs in the paleoclimate temperature indicated strongly-positive feedbacks. With respect, the answer is No, for two reasons. First, the graph I used was inevitably compressed: in fact, most of the temperature changes in that graph took place over hundreds of thousands or even millions of years. Secondly, it is the maximum variance either side of the long-run mean, not the superficially-apparent wildness of the variances within the mean, that establishes whether or not there is a constraint on the maximum net-positivity of temperature feedbacks.
Nick Stokes asked where the limiting value 0.1 for the closed-loop gain in the climate object came from. It is about an order of magnitude above the usual design limit for net-positive feedbacks in electronic circuits that are not intended to experience runaway feedbacks or to oscillate either side of the singularity in the feedback-amplification equation, which occurs where the loop gain is unity.
David Hoffer wondered what evidence the IPCC had for assuming a linear rise in global temperature over the 21st century given that the radiative forcing from CO2 increases only at a logarithmic (i.e. sub-linear) rate. The IPCC pretends that all six of its “emissions scenarios” are to be given equal weight, but its own preference for the A2 scenario is clear, particularly in the relevant chapter of its 2007 report (ch. 10). See, in particular, fig. 10.26, which shows an exponential rise in both CO2 and temperature, when one might have expected the logarithmicity of the CO2 increase to cancel the exponentiality of the temperature increase. However, on the A2 scenario it is only the anthropogenic fraction of the CO2 concentration that is increased exponentially, and this has the paradoxical effect of making temperature rise near-exponentially too – but only if one assumes the very high climate sensitivity that is impossible given the fundamental constraint on the net-positivity of temperature feedbacks.
DR asks whether anyone has ever actually replicated experimentally the greenhouse effect mentioned by Arrhenius, who in 1895/6 first calculated how much warming a doubling of CO2 concentration would cause. Yes, the greenhouse effect was first demonstrated empirically by John Tyndale at the Royal Institution, London (just round the corner from my club) as far back as 1859. His apparatus can still be seen there. The experiment is quite easily replicated, so we know (even if the SB equation and the existence of a readily-measurable temperature lapse-rate with altitude did not tell us) that the greenhouse effect is real. The real debate is not on whether there is a greenhouse effect (there is), but on how much warming our rather small perturbation of the atmosphere with additional concentrations of greenhouse gases will cause (not a lot).
Werner Brozek asks whether the quite small variations in global surface temperature either side of the billion-year mean indicate that “tipping-points” do not exist. In mathematics and physics the term “tipping-point” is really only used by those wanting to make a political point, usually from a climate-extremist position. The old mathematical term of art, still used by many, was “phase-transition”: now we should usually talk of a “bifurcation” in the evolution of the object under consideration. Since the climate object is mathematically-chaotic (IPCC, 2001, para. 14.2.2.2; Giorgi, 2005; Lorenz, 1963), bifurcations will of course occur: indeed any sufficiently rare extreme-weather event may be a bifurcation. We know that very extreme things can suddenly happen in the climate. For instance, at the end of the Younger Dryas cooling period that brought the last Ice Age to an end, temperatures in Antarctica as inferred from variations in the ratios of different isotopes of oxygen in air trapped in layers under the ice, rose by 5 K (9 F) in just three years. “Now, that,” as Ian Plimer likes to say in his lectures, “is climate change!”
But the idea that our very small perturbation in temperature will somehow cause more bifurcations is not warranted by the underlying mathematics of chaos theory. In my own lectures I often illustrate this with a spectacular picture drawn on the Argand plane by a very simple chaotic function, the Mandelbrot fractal function. The starting and ending values for the pixels at top right and bottom left respectively are identical to 12 digits of precision; yet the digits beyond 12 are enough to produce multiple highly-visible bifurcations.
And we know that some forms of extreme weather are likely to become rarer if the world warms. Much – though not all – extreme weather depends not upon absolute temperature but upon differentials in temperature between one altitude or latitude and another. These differentials tend to get smaller as the world warms, so that outside the tropics (and arguably in the tropics too) there will probably be fewer storms.
Roy Clark says there is no such thing as equilibrium in the climate. No, but that does not stop us from trying to do the sums on the assumption of the absence of any perturbation (the equilibrium assumption). Like the square root of -1, it doesn’t really exist, but it is useful to pretend ad argumentum that it might.
Legatus raised a fascinating point about the measurements of ambient radiation that observatories around the world make so that they can calibrate their delicate, heat-sensitive telescopes. He says those measurements show no increase in radiation at the surface (or, rather, on the mountain-tops where most of the telescopes are). However, it is not the surface radiation but the radiation at the top of the atmosphere (or, rather, at the characteristic-emission altitude about 5 km above sea level) that is relevant: and that is 239.4 Watts (no relation) per square meter, by definition, because the characteristic-emission altitude (the outstanding Dick Lindzen’s name for it) is that altitude at which outgoing and incoming fluxes of radiation balance. It is also at that altitude, one optical depth down into the atmosphere, that satellites “see” the radiation coming up into space from the Earth/atmosphere system. Now, as we add greenhouse gases to the atmosphere and cause warming, that altitude will rise a little; and, because the atmosphere contains greenhouse gases and, therefore, its temperature is not uniform, consequent maintenance of the temperature lapse-rate of about 6.5 K/km of altitude will ensure that the surface warms as a result. Since the altitude of the characteristic-emission level varies by day and by night, by latitude, etc., it is impossible to measure directly how it has changed or even where it is.
Of course, it is at the characteristic-emission altitude, and not – repeat not – at the Earth’s surface that the Planck parameter should be derived. So let me do just that. Incoming radiation is, say, 1368 Watts per square meter. However, the Earth presents itself to that radiation as a disk but is actually a sphere, so we divide the radiation by 4 to allow for the ratio of the surface areas of disk and sphere. That gives 342 Watts per square meter. However, 30% of the Sun’s radiation is reflected harmlessly back to space by clouds, snow, sparkling sea surfaces, my lovely wife’s smile, etc., so the flux of relevant radiation at the characteristic-emission altitude is 342(1 – 0.3) = 239.4 Watts per square meter.
From this value, we can calculate the Earth’s characteristic-emission temperature directly without even having to measure it (which is just as well, because measuring even surface temperature is problematic). We use the fundamental equation of radiative transfer, the only equation to be named after a Slovene. Stefan found the equation by empirical methods and, a decade or so later, his Austrian pupil Ludwig Boltzmann proved it theoretically by reference to Planck’s blackbody law (hence the name “Planck parameter”, engagingly mis-spelled “plank” by one blogger.
The equation says that radiative flux is equal to the emissivity of the characteristic-emission surface (which we can take as unity without much error when thinking about long-wave radiation), times the Stefan-Boltzmann constant 5.67 x 10^–8 Watts per square meter per Kelvin to the fourth power, times temperature in Kelvin to the fourth power. So characteristic-emission temperature is equal to the flux divided by the emissivity and by the Stefan-Boltzmann constant, all to the power 1/4.: thus, [239.4 / (1 x 5.67 x 10^–8)]^¼ = 254.9 K or thereby.
Any mathematician taking a glance at this equation will at once notice that one needs quite a large change in radiative flux to achieve a very small change in temperature. To find out how small, one takes the first differential of the equation, which (assuming emissivity to be constant) is simply the temperature divided by four times the flux: so, 254.9 / (4 x 239.4) = 0.2662 Kelvin per Watt per square meter. However, the IPCC (2007, p. 631, footnote) takes 0.3125 and, in its usual exasperating way, without explaining why. So a couple of weeks ago I asked Roy Spencer and John Christy for 30 years of latitudinally-distributed surface temperature data and spent a weekend calculating the Planck parameter at the characteristic-emission altitude for each of 67 zones of latitude, allowing for latitudinal variations in insolation and adjusting for variations in the surface areas of the zones. My answer, based on the equinoxes and admittedly ignoring seasonal variations in the zenith angles of the Sun at each latitude, was 0.316. So I’ve checked, and the IPCC has the Planck parameter right. Therefore, it is of course the IPCC’s value that I used in my calculations in my commentary for Remote Sensing, except in one place.
Kiehl & Trenberth (1997) publish a celebrated Earth/atmosphere energy-budget diagram in which they show 390 Watts per square meter of outgoing radiative flux from the surface, and state that this is the “blackbody” value. From this, we know that – contrary to the intriguing suggestion made by Legatus that one should simply measure it – they did not attempt to find this value by measurement. Instead, they were taking surface emissivity as unity (for that is what defines a blackbody), and calculating the outgoing flux using the Stefan-Boltzmann equation. The surface temperature, which we can measure (albeit with some uncertainty) is 288 K. So, in effect, Kiehl and Trenberth are saying that they used the SB equation at the Earth’s surface to determine the outgoing surface flux, thus: 1 x 5.67 x 10^–8 x 288^4 = 390.1 Watts per square meter.
Two problems with this. First, the equation holds good only at the characteristic-emission altitude, and not at the surface. That is why, once I had satisfied myself that the IPCC’s value at that altitude was correct, I said in my commentary for Remote Sensing that the IPCC’s value was correct, and I am surprised to find that a blogger had tried to leave her readers with a quite different impression even after I had clarified this specific point to her.
Secondly, since Kiehl and Trenberth are using the Stefan-Boltzmann equation at the surface in order to obtain their imagined (and perhaps imaginary) outgoing flux of 390 Watts per square meter, it is of course legitimate to take the surface differential of the equation that they themselves imply that they had used, for in that we we can determine the implicit Planck parameter in their diagram. This is simply done: 288 / (4 x 390) = 0.1846 Kelvin per Watt per square meter. Strictly speaking, one should also add the non-radiative transports of 78 Watts per square meter for evapo-transpiration and 24 for thermal convection (see Kimoto, 2009, for a discussion) to the 390 Watts per square meter of radiative flux, reducing Kiehl and Trenberth’s implicit Planck parameter from 0.18 to 0.15. Either 0.15 or 0.18 gives a climate sensitivity ~1 K. So the Planck parameter I derived at this point in my commentary, of course, not the correct one: nor is it “Monckton’s” Planck parameter, and the blogger who said it was had been plainly told all that I have told you, though in a rather more compressed form because she had indicated she was familiar with differential calculus. It is not Monckton’s Planck parameter, nor even Planck’s Planck parameter, and it is certainly not a plank parameter – but it is Kiehl & Trenberth’s Planck parameter. If they were right (and, of course, I was explicit in using the conditional in my commentary to indicate, in the politest possible way, that they were not), then, like it or not, they were implying a climate sensitivity a great deal lower than they had perhaps realized – in fact a sensitivity of around 1 K. I do regret that a quite unnecessary mountain has been made out of this surely simple little molehill – just one of more than a dozen points in a wide-ranging commentary.
And just to confirm that it should really have been obvious to everyone that the IPCC’s value of the Planck parameter is my value, I gave that value as the correct one both in my commentary and in my recent blog posting on the fundamental constraint on feedback loop gain. You will find it, with its derivation, right at the beginning of that posting, and encapsulated in Eq. (3).
Thank you all again for your interest. This discussion has generally been on a far higher plane than is usual with climate discussions. I hope that these further points in answer to commentators will be helpful.
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
The cornerstone of the AGW cult is its belief that increasing cloud levels (caused by increasing levels of evaporation in response to the rising temperatures “caused” by rising levels of CO2) result in a strong positive feedback which magnifies (by a factor of ~3) the actual rise in temperature caused by rising CO2 levels.
If this is not true – and increasingly it looks like cloud feedback is negative – then there is no need for the IPCC, the Team, the great Bore and most ‘climate scientists’ to exist.
Forget the maths and the science, they are irrelevant here as cloud feedback has to be positive for one very simple reason: it cannot be negative or all those ‘decent, honest, climate scientists’ will lose their comfortable jobs and huge grant funding. Few people seem to realise how conflicted ‘climate scientists’ are: to maintain their very existence (just like leaders of weird religious cults), they have to scare the faithful (the chosen ones who believe) into funding their comfortable lifestyles. The facts are irrelevant, the only thing which matters is the ability to scare sufficiently.
In its next fantasy report, the IPCC will undoubtedly be very shrill in its confirmation that cloud feedback is very positive and “much worse than we thought”. No discussion to the contrary will be allowed, as “the science is settled.”
I think it is reasonable to assume the IPCC has not approached either Christopher Moncton or Anthony for contributions to their next report – “after all, we can’t have laymen making a mockery of our ‘science'”.
If Monckton ruled the world. it would cease to be the world – it would be a mathematical heaven. Surely what a creator might have desired, if we were to accept his existence! [Or not] !
Some papers on the Neoproterozoic glaciation:
http://www.atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca/~peltier/pubs_highestimpact/T.J.%20Crowley,%20W.T.%20Hyde%20and%20W.R.%20Peltier,%20CO2%20levels%20required%20for%20deglaciation%20of%20a%20near%20snowball%20Earth,Geophys.%20Res.%20Lettt.%2028,%20283-286,%202001.pdf
http://www.princeton.edu/geosciences/people/maloof/pdf/SwansonHysell2010a.pdf
http://www.brynmawr.edu/geology/snowball/Snowball_Readings/Snowball_Causes/*SchragEtAl2002GGG.pdf
One of these suggests a maximum CO2 elevation of ~13%. However, that difference aside, I think an interesting point is that a “snowball earth” would completely seize-up the carbon cycle, very effectively blocking the oceans’ ability to absorb CO2 or its ability to participate in weathering reactions. The general picture is that in such circumstances it would build up – primarily via occasional volcanic eruptions punching up through the ice – until after a very long time it could force deglaciation even with solar output ~7% less than that of the present day.
Prior to the “snowball”, there were no ice-ages for ~1.5 billion years – an abnormally long period. Land surfaces would be completely leached down to quite a depth in such a period of weathering. A “good scraping” by the ice-sheets would have provided lots of fresh material – including unstable Ca and Mg-bearing minerals – for weathering agents to start work on. As I said in the post on the other thread, the dolomites are interglacial sediments, which makes sense when the above is thought through.
Another point I’d like to question you about is within the original sentence that Doug picked up on: specifically it is that if you had “mile-high glaciers” all over the planet, how could the atmospheric partial pressure of CO2 have any effect whatsoever on sedimentary precipitation processes going on underwater in the sea? The ice would separate the two systems as effectively as any barrier I can conceive of.
Regards – John
Thank you Chistopher Monckton for this lucid explanation that a layman like myself can almost follow. By that I mean I feel there is a good chance that I will be able to understand much more when I read it a few more times.
Apologies Christopher.. (exit left with hanging head).
“The brilliant Chris Essex explains it thus: when outgoing radiation in the right wavelengths of the near-infrared meets a molecule of a greenhouse gas such as CO2, it sets up a quantum resonance in the gas molecule, turning it into a miniature radiator.[…] So even the IPCC, for all its faults, is not (in this respect, at any rate) repealing the laws of thermodynamics by allowing a cooler system to warm a warmer system, which indeed would be an unphysical concept.”
Which doesn’t stop IPCC scientists like Dessler from constantly repeating the words “heat-trapping gases”, and having the journalists constantly repeat that phrase without ever writing in to the newspapers requiring a more scientifically correct description – how about “IR-redistributing gases”. IPCC science always intentionally borders on deception. That’s the politest way I can express it.
Christopher, I understand reading Hermann Harde’s paper (in German via translation software) that the latest version of the HITRAN database suggests a much smaller level of CO2 forcing closer to 0.45C rather than the 1C from the previous (1998?) HITRAN database.
I understand the reason for this is that the latest database uses a finer resolution for its line by line comparison of the absorption/emission of trace gases like CO2.
Does this mean you are wrong? And that it should be 1 over 2K or not 2K.
And, well done on the feedback analysis. Did you put a figure on the delay time for loop gain (i.e. the time it should take for any feedbacks to themselves result in output which is then fed back).
Christopher Monckton of Brenchley says:
“The equation says that radiative flux is equal to the emissivity of the characteristic-emission surface (which we can take as unity without much error when thinking about long-wave radiation), times the Stefan-Boltzmann constant 5.67 x 10^–8 Watts per square meter per Kelvin to the fourth power, times temperature in Kelvin to the fourth power.”
Sir, this is one of the problems I have with the CO2 warming the surface arguement. I have never seen a radiative heat transfer equation that accounts for H2O and CO2 mixture per Hottel’s charts. If I have read the charts correctly the emissivity of the mixuture is far less than unity. Thus CO2 would have to have a high temperature to impart heat back to the earth.
Thanks for putting this into terms that people can start to understand. I really appreciate it.
In your reply to Legatus, you state that various entities reflect back the incoming sunlight and you imply that your wife’s smile increases this reflection. Does this imply then that IF all husbands would keep their wives happy that the amount of reflection would increase and hence help to combat global warming? If this is correct is the converse also true in that men who make their wives unhappy are contributing to global warming?
Dosen’t water vapour absorb and reradiate energy like CO2?
If it does then the effect of CO2 is insignificant comparedd to that of water vapour.
Satellite systems are susceptible to rain fading that depends on the size of raindrops.
Christopher Monckton of Brenchley, many thanks for illustrating so clearly that, in spite its extreme complexity, the chaotic climate system is nevertheless governed by fixed rules and what some of those are and, moreover, that the scientists who have become the servants of the governments who stand to gain the most with the least investment not only fail to understand those rules but even attempt to invent new rules by which the governments can effectively rule, exploit and even destroy us and our economies.
the way i see it, the resonance in the gas molecule is setup by the absorption of the IR, the molecule will emit IR in its own spectrum. the planck curve emitted by the molecule in this case will of course be lesser due to the temperature of the molecule being lesser than the surface temperature. IR (photons) travel at the speed of light, so time is not a factor between one body transmitting and the other receiving. the water vapour or co2 molecule transmitting to the black body surface already pouring out photons of exactly the same frequency, but fewer, will mean nothing to the surface. it will however make a difference to the atmosphere between the two (there will be more chance of collision), and above (there will be fewer).
The only reason for all the money and “prestige/status” attempt that has fallen in to the hands of climate science is one very simple reason only.
The politically etablished UN climate convention (UNFCCC/UNEP).
First the UNFCCC was push etablished by politicians(UNEP). The UNFCCC(UNEP) states that we have human made global warming and that it will go to hell in 100 years. And to prevent that from happening we all have to go back to a leftist plan society.
And the last 20 years they have used lots of billions of USD to scientifically prove the UNFCCC.
But so far no cigar.
DirkH says:
“IPCC science always intentionally borders on deception.”
That is what originally initiated my skepticism in (C)AGW way back in 1994, I haven’t observed any change in this behavior between then and now.
Thank you, Christopher Monckton of Brenchley, for taking the time to reply to these comments.
Ta.
A question for Peter Miller: Is there any indication that historically, there has been an increase in cloud cover? If there hasn’t been, doesn’t that pretty well put a nail in the agw coffin?
Well done again.
About equilibrium. Each day the sun rises (so to speak) over each slice of longitude, warms it for a time, and then lets it cool again at night (excepting for now the long nights of the poles.) If temperature rises from 65F to 95F, as in the American Midwest in the summer time, that is only a 6% swing, compared to the spatio-temporal average of 288K frequently cited. It is approximately a 13% swing in T^4. These are not large deviations from equilibrium, compared to huge differences among Venus, Earth and Mars, but they are very large compared to the slight (~1%) change from baseline proposed by IPCC as the effect of doubling CO2 concentration. I expect that real precision in estimating the “climate sensitivity” will require serious consideration of the non-equilibrated nature of Earth climate, and will require serious consideration of the non-linearities in the feedbacks.
Thank you again, Christopher Monckton of Brenchley. You are definitely on the right track, and I admire you even more for addressing the critiques raised here. Note, mine is not a critique: it’s the common refrain “More research is needed”!
Now, why the dig at the square root of -1? Naming aside, it is as real as the square root of 2. Only the positive integers are “real” — all the rest were invented by mathematicians: negatives, rationals, irrationals, complex, 0.
Christopher, thanks as always for your responses and your ideas. Inter a lot of interesting alia, you say:
I fear I have not been clear. I am not saying that the issue is whether the feedback is non-linear.
The issue is that the climate sensitivity, the very thing that you are looking to measure, is not just non-linear. It is also inversely proportional to temperature. By this I mean that the warmer the system gets, the harder it is to drive the surface temperature one degree warmer.
This is the result of a number of factors acting in concert in various combination as the surface warms. In no particular order, some of the major factors are:
1. Radiation goes up by the fourth power of temperature.
2. Evaporation goes up geometrically by the Clausius-Clapeyron relationship.
3. The surface circulation changes from random and stratified to cumulus-based circulation.
4. The increased wind from the new circulation pattern raises the evaporation linearly.
5. The surface circulation changes to a thunderstorm based pattern, increasing the wind.
6. The again-increased wind from the thunderstorms raises the evaporation linearly.
7. Thunderstorms bring cool water and air down from the lower troposphere and mix them violently with the surface air and water.
8. Clouds turn down the incoming solar radiation by hundreds of watts per square metre.
As a result of these and other phenomena, all of which increase as the surface temperature increases, it is almost impossible to drive the system to a level that is a whole lot higher than the current temperature. We are constantly running as hot as the system is capable of running, hard up against the stops.
In other words, the feedback is neither positive nor is it negative. Instead, the feedback varies inversely with the temperature in a threshold-based pattern. This is a characteristic of a system with a governor, a homeostatic system. When it is cold the governor warms the system up, and when it is warm the governor cools the system down.
To recap:
1. Your analysis is certainly valid, and is a fascinating way to look at the system. I agree that, given meteors and Deccan Traps and the like, IF the climate worked like the IPCC says and IF the average feedback were generally positive, it could not be more than about + 0.1. The IPCC claims it is much larger.
2. However, the idea of “average feedback” conceals the fact that the climate sensitivity is a non-linear function of temperature which we can represent as nf(T). So let’s go back through your math. You start with:
ΔT = ΔF λ
where ∆T is change in temperature, ∆F is change in forcing, and λ (lambda) is climate sensitivity.
However, lambda is a non-linear function of T, so the equation should be.
ΔT = ΔF nf(T)
Since nf(T) varies inversely with T, the hotter it gets, the less each additional watt of forcing changes the temperature.
This is a great system, because it is inherently stable. When temperatures are low, climate sensitivity is high, and the system warms rapidly. When temperatures are high, climate sensitivity is low, so it hardly warms at all.
However, because of this inherent stability, the climate system is not amenable to the type of analysis you are using. You are doing a “how much would it take to drive the system to instablility” analysis … but you are not taking into account that this is an inherently stable system.
In other words, you are correct that IF feedback is constant, and IF it is positive, it can’t be more than about +0.1 or the system would be unstable.
But we’re not looking at an electronic amplifier here, with constant feedback. In a system where sensitivity is inversely proportional to temperature, it is almost impossible to make the the system unstable.
These misunderstandings are due to the use of averages. Yes, we can determine some kind of global average feedback. But the fact we can average it does not make it a constant. It is temperature dependent, and varies non-linearly.
Finally, none of this diminishes your argument. Your argument is that, if the climate works the way the current climate science paradigm of the IPCC says, then the IPCC results are internally inconsistent.
My response is that you are 100% correct … but the climate doesn’t work the way the current paradigm says.
Thanks for continuing the discussion,
w.
The last couple weeks have been an interesting time in the Great Climate Boxing Match of 2011. *In one corner we had Mr. Gore and Mr. Nye and and a vast assortment of ex beauty contest contestants and other semi-celebrities aided and abetted by various cookie jars, $2 thermometers, and video editing equipment doing their best Chicken Little impression to convince us that if we don’t all do as we’re told we will all die horrible deaths. In the other corner we had an ex TV weatherman, a cartoonist with a bear named Theo, and Monckton of Brenchley.
Despite being vastly outnumbered the result was entirely predictable. It was like Mike Tyson in his prime against PeeWee Herman. TKO at 10 seconds of the first round.
The noble lord. You would always prefer to have him in your tent pissing out, than outside pissing in.
As a matter of interest,I was born near Brenchley Gardens in SE London. Is there any connection?
Oso Politico, as you might imagine the fossil record on clouds is a bit thin.
However, I am sure you can find someone from the IPCC who can give you a firm opinion on this in support their ‘science’.
Thank you, Christopher Monckton. And thank you, Willis Eschenbach. Your are two of the best, if not the best, communicators on climate science on the Web. That is as much due to your skills with the English language as to your understanding of the science.
Peter Miller says: @ur momisugly September 29, 2011 at 11:14 am
Oso Politico, as you might imagine the fossil record on clouds is a bit thin.
However, I am sure you can find someone from the IPCC who can give you a firm opinion on this in support their ‘science’.
_____________________________________________________________________
Of Course they can all they have to do is consult Dr. Mann and his favorite tree.
Lord Monckton, Thank you for a clear explanation that those of us who are “math challenged” can at least attempt to follow. As you noted the caliber of commenter here at WUWT is quite high so the discussions are fascinating. A parent could do their children a great favor by pointing them in this direction to read articles such as yours especially given the dreck that now passes as science in the US school systems.
Willis Eschenbach says:
September 29, 2011 at 11:01 am
The issue is that the climate sensitivity, the very thing that you are looking to measure, is not just non-linear. It is also inversely proportional to temperature. By this I mean that the warmer the system gets, the harder it is to drive the surface temperature one degree warmer.
lambda is a non-linear function of T, so the equation should be.
ΔT = ΔF nf(T)
Since nf(T) varies inversely with T, the hotter it gets, the less each additional watt of forcing changes the temperature.
——————————————-
I agree fully with Willis here and note that this is a very important point that is never addressed and the IPCC actually ignores it.
Here is a good example of why it shouldn’t be ignored. The Sun’s surface varies by +/- 100,000 W/m2 over the solar cycle (just to repeat, now we are talking about a range of 200,000 W/m2 over just 5.5 years). Yet the Sun’s surface temperature only changes by +/- 0.5C over that cycle. And we cannot even find the solar cycle impact in our temperature records. Somehow, here on Earth, 3.7 W/m2 produces 1.0C but on the Sun 200,000 Watts is needed to produce 1.0C.
Technically, the Earth’s surface needs to add +16.5 W/m2 to increase its surface temperature by 3.0C. The IPCC says we only need 6 W/m2 to get there because they live in a linear world.
Michael Larkin says:
September 29, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Thank you, Christopher Monckton. And thank you, Willis Eschenbach. Your are two of the best, if not the best, communicators on climate science on the Web. That is as much due to your skills with the English language as to your understanding of the science.
That definitely bears repeating. I think you have more than adequately addressed the blogger’s points, thank you. These last few weeks, probably since the Dessler brouhaha, have been fascinating. I have never seen such an outpouring of mathematics as there has been lately.
/paul