Hey – how much Thorium you got under the hood?

Much like “flying cars”, atomic powered cars were a campy futuristic meme of the 50’s, for example, there was the Ford Nucleon concept:

File:Ford Nucleon.jpg

From Wikipedia: The Ford Nucleon was a scale model concept car developed by Ford Motor Company in 1958 as a design on how a nuclear-powered car might look. The design did not include an internal-combustion engine, rather, the vehicle was to be powered by a small nuclear reactor in the rear of the vehicle, based on the assumption that this would one day be possible based on shrinking sizes. The car was to use a steam engine powered by uranium fission.

It looks a little bit like the Bat mobile from the rear:

Now it looks like we might actually see a real one, using Thorium rather than Uranium, which not only is safer to manage, you don’t have to worry about some terrorist car-jacking your ride for fissile materials.

Here’s the new concept. Thorium could be used in conjunction with a laser and mini turbines to easily produce enough electricity to power a vehicle. When thorium is heated, it generates further heat surges, allowing it to be coupled with mini turbines to produce steam that can then be used to generate electricity. It is said that 1 gram of thorium produces the equivalent energy of 7,500 gallons of gasoline.

Here’s the headline from Ward’s Auto:

U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium

By Keith Nuthall

A U.S. company says it is getting closer to putting prototype electric cars on the road that will be powered by the heavy-metal thorium.

Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive rare-earth element discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium.

Thorium is silvery, often with black tarnish - image: Wikipedia

The key to the system developed by inventor Charles Stevens, CEO and chairman of Connecticut-based Laser Power Systems, is that when silvery metal thorium is heated by an external source, it becomes so dense its molecules give off considerable heat.

Small blocks of thorium generate heat surges that are configured as a thorium-based laser, Stevens tells Ward’s. These create steam from water within mini-turbines, generating electricity to drive a car.

A 250 MW (I think this is a typo, they probably mean KW – Anthony) unit weighing about 500 lbs. (227 kg) would be small and light enough to drop under the hood of a car, he says.

Jim Hedrick, a specialist on industrial minerals – and until last year the U.S. Geological Survey’s senior advisor on rare earths – tells Ward’s the idea is “both plausible and sensible.”

Stevens says his company should be able to place a prototype on the road within two years. The firm has 40 employees and operates out of an in-house research workshop.

View Chart Larger

Hedrick, the industrial minerals expert, says 7,500 gallons is “way more gasoline than an average person uses in a year. Switching to thorium-driven cars would make the U.S. energy self-sufficient, and carbon emissions would plummet.

“It would eliminate the major need for oil,” he says. “The main (remaining) demand would be for asphalt for roadways, natural gas, plastics and lubricants.”

Full story here.

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I want one. 8 grams of Thorium in a  V shaped reactor block. The new atomic V-8. The only downside is that I won’t be able to overhaul the engine myself as I would imagine the Thorium would be in a sealed power module. I might add, that this endeavor sounds a little bit like a Tucker, long on promise, short on delivery.

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ADDENDUM:

I published this story late Friday night at 1AM and then went on a trip the next day, I was surprised to learn that people missed my cues and thought I took the Ward’s article seriously. I thought the headline and first sentence set the tone with “flying cars” and “campy”.

Few seemed to understand the Tucker comment at the end either:

“I might add, that this endeavor sounds a little bit like a Tucker, long on promise, short on delivery.”

The Tucker was a car sold on futuristic promises in the mind of a man that hadn’t actually designed or built the car. Preston Tucker floated the concept in Science Illustrated magazine in December 1946  followed by a full page advertisement in March 1947 in many national newspapers claiming “How 15 years of testing produced the car of the year”. He was immediately overwhelmed with pre-orders for a car that didn’t even exist on paper. Hence my comment: “I want one”.

Tucker then got a bunch of investors together to try to fill orders, and got some government help with loan of a WWII supply factory that had been idled after the war. The factory eventually produced 50 cars, but it was too late, as many had lost confidence and he was embroiled in an SEC investigation and court trial over investor funds.

The 1948 Tucker Torpedo- click for article

The cars finally produced didn’t have many of the futuristic features that had been promised early on. Some were there, and Tucker was credited with inspiring improved auto safety as a result.

I thought my reference to a Tucker automobile was about as strong a label as anyone could make as the promises of this thorium car being hyped. The parallel seemed obvious.

I guess next time I’ll have to be more explicit. with a /sarc tag – Anthony

 

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August 13, 2011 1:09 am

“Because thorium is so dense, similar to uranium, it stores considerable potential energy: 1 gm of thorium equals the energy of 7,500 gallons (28,391 L) of gasoline Stevens says. So, using just 8 gm of thorium in a car should mean it would never need refueling.”
————————–
What’s the life time of those T grams though?

August 13, 2011 1:17 am

Will the car have headlights, or will it glow in the dark? Sorry. Couldn’t resist.

LazyTeenager
August 13, 2011 1:22 am

I’d say no. Atomic fission occurs in the nucleus and as such it’s immune to any influences, like heat or electronic exitation, that can affect the thorium atom.
It all boils down to a mismatch between the amount of energy transferred by thermal process and the energy needed to affect the nucleus.
It’s a bit like kicking an armoured tank. The tank does not notice.

Marcus Kesseler
August 13, 2011 1:26 am

Wow, with 335.120 hp I sure do want one too! And no one here in Germany would be pestering me about the CO2 emissions…
Must surely be 250 KW, right? Which would still be cool.
Best regards,
Marcus

Marcus Kesseler
August 13, 2011 1:28 am

Damn these culturally variant number formats! Of the course in my post above I mean 335,120 hp!
Marcus

Roger Knights
August 13, 2011 1:32 am

What about using it in larger vehicles first, where its weight and bulk would be less problematic? E.g., trucks, buses, trains, and ships.

a jones
August 13, 2011 1:34 am

Oh dear.
First we get magical cold nuclear fusion, nickel to copper. etc etc.
Now we have a thorium process offering 250 MW. Do you have any idea how much power that is? and all in a 500 lb package. Unless they mean 250 MWHr for the life of the unit. Even so pretty amazing.
And of course laser stimulated, well it may be a surprise but we were doing that kind of thing nearly forty years ago. With a conspicuous lack of success.
Seems what goes around comes around and what did not work then won’t work now.
Sorry about that. Nice pipedream and all that.
But I suppose the charlatans are ever with us.
So sorry.
Kindest Regards

Jan
August 13, 2011 1:36 am

250 MW? that’s about 300,000 hp. Makes me doubt the seriousness of the whole article.

Roger Knights
August 13, 2011 1:37 am

If this (or Rossi’s E-Cat) works, it will vindicate those who claim that technological breakthroughs will save the day, as they have in the past.

Jim
August 13, 2011 1:39 am

“The key to the system developed by inventor Charles Stevens, CEO and chairman of Connecticut-based Laser Power Systems, is that when silvery metal thorium is heated by an external source, it becomes so dense its molecules give off considerable heat.”
How does heating it make it more dense? Aren’t heat and density inversely related?

Bomber_the_Cat
August 13, 2011 1:40 am

Surely this is nonsense!. Can’t people see that?
Where is this miraculous power supposed to come from? “When thorium is heated, it generates further heat surges” – this would seem to violate the 1st Law – the Conservation of Energy. – Youu don’t get ‘owt for nowt. “It stores considerable potential energy….1 gram of thorium produces the equivalent energy of 7,500 gallons of gasoline”. obviously ridiculous unless some nuclear reaction is occurring However, we are told this is not a nuclear reaction ” Stevens agrees, emphasizing his system is ‘subcritical.’ This means no nuclear reaction occurs within the thorium. It remains in the same state and is not turned into uranium 233″ – in which case you won’t get any power out of it!
Nuclear Thorium reactors of course work by first transmuting Thorium into Uranium233, which is fissile isotope just like U235, and then subsequently produce heat via ‘conventional’ fission. Without that process occurring in the Thorium there is no possible mechanism that I can envisage that could produce the power claimed.
I’m afraid you’ll have to wait a bit longer for your atomic V-8 Anthony.

Dodgy Geezer
August 13, 2011 1:45 am

Myself, I’m waiting for the cold fusion model….

T.Haugland
August 13, 2011 1:48 am

I want one too….

Cold Englishman
August 13, 2011 1:50 am

Love it, I want one two or three.

August 13, 2011 1:50 am

“when silvery metal thorium is heated by an external source, it becomes so dense its molecules give off considerable heat.”
this does not make sense … what will power the laser ?

James Reid
August 13, 2011 1:52 am

Seems a bit extreme to cart the reactor around with you. Why not use the thorium power in the home to electrolyse water to hydrogen, store the hyrogen in metal tanks (see http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/ – hydrofil) and then you can use it in portable tools, cars, bikes etc etc)?
You could charge your existing electric car Anthony!
I am still convinced that hydrogen is the ulitmate portable power source – it’ll just take a bit of time :-).

Seamus Dubh
August 13, 2011 2:02 am

Screw putting it in my car.
I’ll take one for my house.
Keep my lights on for about the next decade.

August 13, 2011 2:05 am

We won’t see a real one. The Chinese will see a real one.
The good part: Western countries enslaved to the primitive ooga-booga Earth Goddess will pull out all the stops to blockade the Chinese thorium cars. This will be the first time in several decades they can imagine blocking an import from China, and that’s good. But they’ll be blocking the first Chinese import that we really need, so it will still be pointless and suicidal.

Editor
August 13, 2011 2:09 am

250MW – now that leaves the puny 125Kw from my V8 gas-guzzler seem somewhat trifling !!!!

August 13, 2011 2:09 am

“A 250 MW unit weighing about 500 lbs.”
A 250 MW unit would power a battleship.

August 13, 2011 2:11 am

Correction, a 250 MW unit would power an aircraft carrier.

Stargazer
August 13, 2011 2:13 am

Fantastic.. I want one.
but this will be the last we see of this then ! as the ‘greens’ don’t really want anything to do with anything that is actually green.

steveta_uk
August 13, 2011 2:13 am

At the end of the main report, it says this:
“Reza Hashemi-Nezhad, director of the Institute of Nuclear Science at the University of Sydney, Australia, says nuclear power plants already run submarines and could operate oil tankers, “but they are not small enough to fit in the boot (trunk) of a car.”
Which clearly means the quote is from an expert who doesn’t actually know what he’s being asked about.
Are all “experts” this arrogant and complaisant with their comments?

John Marshall
August 13, 2011 2:17 am

Still radioactive though. Petrol (gasoline) and diesel are the best and future reserves will be supplemented by the production of methane, which can be polymerised to petrol or diesel, from rubbish now burried in landfill.
The UK buries millions of tons of rubbish every year all of which could be used for methane production. A wasted resource.

Thor
August 13, 2011 2:29 am

I’ve just registered interest in a 2015 MY Capri Laser

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