The Australian ETS vote: a political litmus test for cap and trade

Many here in the USA got their first inkling of the extraordinary events going on in Australia with the vote that was supposed to happen in parliament on Friday over “ETS” or Emissions Trading Scheme, with this WUWT post:

Ripples of Climategate? Liberal MP’s desert Turnbull in Australia over emissions trading scheme

On Friday, 12 Liberal members of parliament resigned their frontbench positions rather than be forced into a party line vote for ETS. That is quite a statement. The MP’s are hearing from their constituents in large numbers. From ABC news in Australia, this snippet:

“The phone lines have been in meltdown with people saying that the Liberal Party would not be doing its job as an Opposition simply to pass this thing without the scrutiny that people calling my office think it demands,” he [MP Tony Abbott] said.

Here’s a YouTube video being circulated in Australia:

When I ran my story Ripples of Climategate? on Thursday, I suggested that Climategate was being heard by the people of Australia, but I got a number of comments from people in Australia who posted on WUWT saying that they aren’t hearing about it in the mainstream media there.

Andrew Bolt, columnist and blogger for the Herald Sun, answered my query today on what is happening with ETS as it relates to “Climategate”:

From: Bolt, Andrew
Sent:
Friday, November 27, 2009 5:07 PM
To:
Anthony Watts – mobile
Subject:
RE: Climategate in Australia

Several MPs have indeed mentioned the emails in their party room speeches, and your correspondents miss the way MPs actually pick up things.

Yes, it’s true that the emails have not yet had quite the coverage they deserve. That said, my column appears in the biggest selling paper. My blog is the biggest political one in the country, and I suspect is read or at least occasionally checked by most Liberal MPs.

I’ve talked about Climategate on radio stations in four states, including the highest-rating AM shows in Sydney and Melbourne. Some talkback shows have flogged the issue, particularly in Brisbane and Sydney. Readers of the blog and other sources, or listeners to Sydney talkback in particular, have bombarded their MPs with emails mentioning it. I’ve debated it on the ABC (your BBC) on its flagship late-night political show, watched by many politicians.   And still that doesn’t cover it all.

Many MPs have been scared to challenge a “consensus”, fearing they may not just be outgunned but simply wrong. The emails give some extra confidence. I doubt more than a handful at best would not know of them, and no sceptic would not be emboldened by them.

In all this, however, many other factors are at play, including an assessment of the merits of the emissions trading bill, the wisdom of passing it now, the terrible leadership of Malcolm Turnbull and more.  

Andrew Bolt

heraldsun.com.au/andrewbolt

It would seem, the people and their representatives are bypassing the MSM in favor of  the Internet and Talk Radio.

The ETS vote has been delayed until Monday, and there may well be a leadership “spill” before the vote. If ETS fails in Australia, it will the first eco-political casualty affected in part by Climategate.

131 thoughts on “The Australian ETS vote: a political litmus test for cap and trade

  1. That video shows how an effective ad can be created with no fancy effects whatsoever (except a soundtrack). However, the fast-flash text-review towards the end goes by too fast.

  2. The political groundswell in opposition to the political travesty of AGW-related measures is still mostly hidden and silent. Just look at how many days it was before Drudge picked up on it and starting running links to the stories. For many folks that only occasionally catch the news, usually from the main broadcast media, they still don’t know there’s such a thing as climategate and haven’t a clue as to the meaning of, “hide the decline.” The issue still needs to be pressed on all venues till no one dares ignore it.

  3. I believe that Labor only needs 7 votes for this to pass on Monday and be enacted in the middle of 2011 ! so there is need to hurry with this legislation at all, except to enhance the prestige of Kevin Rudd prior to Copenhagen and perhaps capture public opinion before the mood changes. But it is already changing and very rapidly.

    This is proving to be a very interesting weekend.

  4. Using that much bandwidth for a bit of text does diminish the credibility somewhat. However, I agree that we are in a serious recession – the escalating recession that’s been going on for the last 200 years. I will never be able to afford even a fraction of what my grandparents took for granted. That probably won’t change as long as we keep talking about the weather.

  5. It’s a little dramatic, but no way as bad at the “black baloons” popping out of electical appliances and floating up in to the sky ads (Which doesn’t seem to be screened anymore).

    It is also important to note that the Aussie ETS has origins, which started about 10 years ago, in the Liberal party. So I don’t value any of this.

    All the same, Turnbull is an childish idiot in on the carbon scam (It’s actually called a “carbon” problem here in Australia in the MSM) as he and his chums stand to make lots of money out of a CPRS (ETS).

    Interesting that the New Zealand gummint rushed their ETS into law, just before NIWAGate.

    An ETS has been in place in Europe since 2004. It’s done nothing but raise shedloads of cash and CO2 still rises.

    New was the second country to introduce a scheme and Australia will soon follow I am affraid, followed by the US.

  6. In the Australian Senate, 39 votes are needed for the ETS to pass. Labor, which has proposed it, has 32. The Greens have 5, and although they are threatening to oppose because it does not go far enough, they will likely vote for it when the crunch comes. The Liberals have 32, and under Turnbull’s leadership would nominally support it, so even with defections it would have pass easily. To block it, in the present torrid circumstances, they have to act with remarkable unanimity.

    But voting to block the ETS for a lot of them is suicidal. For then Rudd could call for a double dissolution election, with all seats in both Houses being vacated. Reuters:

    The latest opinion polls show Rudd would easily win an election with an increased majority. The Reuters Poll Trend on Tuesday found Rudd had a 10.9 percent lead, with 55.4 percent support compared to 44.6 percent for the opposition.

    And that’s before the chaos of a leadership change. So it’s hard to hold the line. And if it is blocked, after the election there follows a double dissolution sitting, at which the ETS would pass easily, even if Labor does not gain control of the Senate.

  7. Turnbull claims he’s had 850 emails with 750 supporting the ETS. (Front page SMH today) … and surprise, surprise not even a mention of ClimateGate !

  8. Dr Kevin Trenberth,
    1, “The fact is we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t.”
    2, “How come you do not agree with a statement that says we are no where close to knowing where energy is going or whether clouds are changing to make the planet brighter. We are not close to balancing the energy budget. The fact that we can not account for what is happening in the climate system makes any consideration of geoengineering quite hopeless as we will never be able to tell if it is successful or not! It is a travesty!

    ‘Experts’ have enthusiastically promoted a message of impending climate disaster. But when Kevin Trenberth admits that he can’t explain what is going on, we should thank him for his candor, put aside the message, defer planned legislation, cancel international meetings and look more closely at the causes of climate change.

  9. Its full on here this weekend – the media coverage is simply what suits vested interests and not the people – the good thing is people are now talking and asking questions with many saying what is going on! We have the Nationals and a large part of the liberals now standing up. There are many in Labor who support the cause but to speak out could mean they resign from their party. If we could get a bipartisan approach to this and knock it well and truly on the head it would be brilliant.

    As well as Andrew some great sites for people to go to;

    Joanne Nova – great comment

    http://joannenova.com.au/

    Barnaby Joyce – petition against ETS

    http://www.barnabyjoyce.com.au/

    2GB – great radio interviews by Alan Jones

    http://www.2gb.com/index.php?option=com_homepage&id=1&Itemid=44

    Online petition to Senators against ETS

    http://listentous.org.au/

  10. Should be an interesting weekend for you folks down under. Hopefully the time will works in your favor as more pressure can be put on the fence sitters.

  11. This is so extraordinary – this time last week the news about CRU was just breaking on the internet. Today there are over 10 million websites carrying your word (climategate) and the story of malpractice at CRU (an almost unknown institution one week ago) is changing the political landscape across the world and beginning to show signs of overshadowing Copenhagen. This alone is amazing.

    What is also amazing is that this has happened against a backdrop of years of shrill opposition to the story being given oxygen by the MSM and the main science publications, who are mostly ignoring the scandal or putting out inaccurate accounts that downplay the significance of the publication of the analysis of the released files published daily of WUWT and CA, in fact here in the UK the no 1 item on the news last night was that Copenhagen is going to be a big success because the politicians are pledging themselves in ever greater numbers to the cause of saving the world from the scourge of rising world temperatures and sea levels. The search engines such as Google are also doing their best to smother the story on their news pages.

    They say one person cannot change history, but Steve and you have seemingly done that. I, on the other side of the world, a nobody in science, have watched this change being played out in real time on my computer and I can even add my messages to your personal forums where the threads remain relatively manageable lengths of 1- 300 messages per day. A lot of things that have happened on the internet are bad, but what you have done is good for humanity and you both deserve thanks from millions of people who are benefitting from what you are achieving from your homes. Congratulations.

  12. It is the speed of change that is surprising and it has caught the Politicians by surprise. There has been a really strong grass roots movement since last friday by the public to let their local member know that they are ill-informed about this Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme and want it delayed. Turnbull (Liberal) has nailed his colors to the mast in promoting passage of the CPRS, he sees it as modern, progressive and preparing Australia for the future. There is a lot of rapid learning going on out there.
    Reminds me of Dylan,
    “There’s somethin’ goin’ on but you don’t know what it is, do you, mister Jones”

  13. My reading of it is that passing or defeat of the Australian Emissions Trading Scheme is on a knife edge right now and all will be decided on Monday or Tuesday next week.
    They left it very late and it has been much ado about simple politics until the last hours. With political fears about the public swallowing of the usual alarmist views (‘science is settled’ and so on) it was me-tooism rather than suffer some political defeat at the polls until the last minute. Not only has a rural based small party been totally opposed all along (and Greens opposed because it didnt go far enough) the true climate realists have revolted and given up everything rather that go along with it. They have been allied to those who simply cannot face tearing into the largest export industry (and provider of 84% of all Australia’s energy) – coal. It has been aided by an unprecedented uprising of public protest to every single party representative demanding a vote against the measure.

    There are true believers and only seven votes from the opposition are needed to have it passed next week. Seven true believers to vote on Monday before the Believer-in-Chief, the opposition leader, faces a pary room move to oust him on Tuesday morning.

  14. Consensus never means anything in Science, people had Consensus when the earth was flat, but the skeptic turned it around.

    Ian Plimer is worth having a listen too, he’s the only sane one left in Australia with Andrew Bolt!!

    [audio src="http://files.me.com/donaldc/f6egi9.mp3" /]

  15. I am Australian and yes ClimateGate has not been focused on here. Our ABC is pumping the warmist line. In recent times we have been told sea level will rise 1.1 metres. Antartica is melting and that we must get down to 1 ton of emissions each per year by the experts that know! Totally barking mad we generate about 1.2% of emissions or so we guess. Probably if we closed the country down and all left the rest of the world would not notice a change. A disturbing problem is we have electricity generate with brown coal in Victoria. These four stations are the only ones privately owned and as is typical they run on debt. When the ETS passes there is reason to believe they will go into administration rapidly and then be asset stripped. This is because the value will greatly diminished and so no longer cover the debt. I am in Canberra and expect to affected with increased charges and blackouts. Our eastern seaboard and South Australia are in one grid which has about 30 Gw feeding into it, the stations in question are about 8Gw. Our ruling party knows this but have dismissed as nonsense with the statement well they knew it was coming!!! In case someone asks according to our Labor party Nuclear is sort of like raping your Mother so replacement has to be wind or solar!

  16. Dr A Burns, I think Turbull is Labour (he’s so left at the moment), so of course he’s receiving all the Labour supporting emails, he probably is filtering out the hate mail lol :)

  17. One bit of cheering news from Australia is that Kevin Rudd (PM) has said he would not be seeking a double dissolution if the Enormous Tax Scam is not passed by the senate. I suspect our glorious leader has detected the stink coming from the CRU leak. If an early election is not threatening, the Liberals can feel safe in voting the tax down in senate. Kevin Rudd may have wanted to take enacted ETS legislation to Copenhagen but he can recover with the excuse that the US is bringing nothing. With the climategate scandal continuing to unfold I believe that Mr. Rudd knows his dreams of a quango retirement job in a UN global government funded by “climate debt” are fast fading.

    Hard working moderators – if this is a double post please delete (not the emails :)

  18. “History affords us many instances of the ruin of states, by the prosecution of measures ill suited to the temper and genius of their people.”

    ~~Benjamin Franklin

  19. Could we Northern Hemisphere fans have a little background on the parties, Rudd, and Turnbull, please?
    Conservative, liberal, pro/anti AGW, etc?
    Thanks.

  20. OT, but my impression is that most of the MSM coverage of late is part of a well-orchestrated campaign to build momentum for some kind of Copenhagen deal.

    I am reminded of novice attorneys who prepare a closing statement in advance of trial and stick to that statement even though the evidence came out different than they had anticipated.

    In the same way, most of the MSM is not mentioning Climategate because (I suspect) it’s just not part of their game plan.

    A week or two ago, I would have tried to avoid sounding like I think there is a conspiracy going on, but now I really think there is an informal conspiracy in the same way that there was an informal conspiracy to refrain from publicizing JFK’s dalliances.

    JMHO

  21. Just thinking about the timing.

    Top Gear is on this weekend, and I’m sure Jeremy Clarkson will be bouyed about the news. Wonder if he will mention it, or how he could (he’s not going to go in depth), and when will it air in Australia.

    It’s just a car show, but it has more viewers than any other show. That could get some movement in Aus, if it airs in time.

    C’mon Jezza, do it.

  22. I’m not an Aussie, but from what i understand the basics are:

    Minority Government
    Labor Party = Kevin Rudd (PM) = pro AGW
    Liberal Party = Turnbull (leader of oposition) = he is pro AGW but most of the party is anti AGW

    ….i think.

  23. quote Keith Minto (23:20:17) “It is the speed of change that is surprising and it has caught the Politicians by surprise. ”

    I believe the Australian government has always been suspect about the science of global warming. Rudd got into government on the GW issue, but has opperated very slowly toward his stated goal and with very small steps.

    Secondly, most people I talk to either don’t know/care about the issue, or don’t believe it. Very few believe it. Generaly, I think people have not had confidence or a voice to put forth opinion on the science, but felt railroaded into an inevitable corner.

    ET has always been a bad idea from a business and home owner point of view. Now they are emboldened to speek out and voice opposition to it.

  24. ….isn’t Top Gear filmed several months in advance? He got a brief dig in with the ‘eco-mentalists are stupid’ comment last Sunday though….good for a laff.

  25. Sorry O.T but some news in out papers today.
    Mr Sarkozy’s presence at the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting gives it an unprecedented level of international interest and indicates concern that a hard and fast deal on cutting greenhouse gases will not be reached at a crunch United Nations summit in Copenhagen next month.
    Prime Minister John Key has said he will go to Copenhagen only if there is an agreement on the table, which he believes is unlikely before next year.
    Some of the heavy-hitters are in town to put the case when it comes to climate change. They’re using this as a staging post, if you like, going into Copenhagen.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/politics/3105015/Climate-talk-on-the-boil-as-Sarkozy-gatecrashes-Chogm

  26. C’mon Anthony, do you just post anything skeptical?
    ‘Average income’ ? You know statistics lie. Sure the ETS is stupid but youtube clips accompanied by indie-tunes are so pre-pubescent.
    Emission taxes will just widen the divide between rich and poor. Most people would will just pay up rather than stepping down a lower socio-economic rung. Poor people are simply poor; it’s a lifestyle, but some are willing to work harder for a lifestyle.

    This clip is so Michael Moore but pointed in the other direction.

    If people respond to three minute videos, there is something wrong with them.

  27. >>Top Gear
    >>It’s just a car show, but it has more viewers than
    >>any other show. That could get some movement in
    >>Aus, if it airs in time.

    Pfffff !!!!!

    A car show? No, no, no. Top Gear is political, social, pacifist and environmental satire at its very best. The BBC have been mystified for years as to why it is their top program in the ratings, and they still don’t understand (or don’t want to understand) that Top Gear is successful precisely because it is everything that the BBC is not.

    There are not many subversive activities in the UK any more. Margaret Thatcher had to endure Spitting Image each week, but Labour have banned criticism and satire of anything and everything. Top Gear is as good as it gets nowadays, and that is why people watch it. (And that’s why the army have devoted 192 days of army training to Top Gear programs.)

    .

  28. >>>….isn’t Top Gear filmed several months in advance?

    The major films are, but the show in the hangar is only filmed about a week before, to keep it topical. Climategate may be a bit too recent for this episode.

    .

  29. I just send an message to every member of the dutch “tweede kamer”, asking there attention for the problems sinds there is almost no media who have attention overhere. I hope i dont get flocked over this by the keft wing party’s :)

    Keep you posted.

  30. BTW “Tweede kamer” is our senate so to speak.

    If there are more ducht people who want the email adresses. I have them at hand.

  31. “Greg Cavanagh (00:08:33) :

    Secondly, most people I talk to either don’t know/care about the issue, or don’t believe it. Very few believe it.”

    Greg, I’d tend to agree with you. When you look at the laws and policies that have been passed here in Aus and in New Zealand you can see most appear to trust the pollies to do their job. Trouble is, they *ARE* doing a great job of shafting us.

    Still, as long as the cricket of footy is on the telly…and there’s a cold one in the fridge…she’ll be right mate!

  32. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8383713.stm

    Page last updated at 19:22 GMT, Friday, 27 November 2009
    E-mail this to a friend Printable version
    Inquiry into stolen climate e-mails
    By Roger Harrabin
    Environment analyst, BBC News

    Keyboard (EyeWire)
    The supposed e-mails have been widely circulated on the web

    Details of a university inquiry into e-mails stolen from scientists at one of the UK’s leading climate research units are likely to be made public next week.

    Announcement of a chair of the inquiry and terms of reference will probably be made on Monday, a source says.

    The University of East Anglia’s (UEA) press office did not confirm the date.

    But a spokesperson said information about the investigation into the hack at UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) would be made public very soon.

    Scientists will be scrutinising the choice of chair and the terms of reference.

    One senior climate scientist told me that the chair would have to be a person accepted by both mainstream climate scientists and sceptics as a highly respected figure without strong connections to either group.

    BBC News understands that senior individuals at UEA have acknowledged the potential damage to the university’s reputation from the CRU affair and are anxious to clear the institution’s name.

    But there is a risk that some people will not accept the findings of any inquiry unless it is fully independent, as demanded by the former UK Chancellor Lord Lawson earlier in the week.

    A petition is running on the 10 Downing Street website calling for CRU to be suspended from preparation of any government climate statistics until the allegations have been fully investigated.

    Some researchers would not comment until they had seen UEA’s nominated chairman and terms of reference.

    But Professor Sir John Houghton, chair of the IPCC’s first science panel, said he would not support an inquiry as many of those demanding one were biased.

    Phil Willis MP said the House of Commons Science and Technology Select Committee – of which he is chair – had written to UEA asking for copies of the e-mails and an explanation. Depending on the response, the committee will decide whether to proceed further.

    Professor Sir David King, the former government chief scientist, told BBC News there are three key issues:

    * how did the leakage occur – was there any payment in the process?
    * the alleged behaviour of the scientists indicated by the e-mails
    * does this have any impact on the scientific conclusion?

    If an independent inquiry encompassed all three aspects, Professor Sir David said he would support it.

  33. Mike Mc

    Labor is traditionally the working class party associated with blue collar, catholics (irish roots) unionism big government bureaucracy etc

    In recent years associated with the greens

    There are Labor skeptics but they cant speak out.

    Nationals are the country party that most farmers vote for

    Liberals are meant to be small government, small business party but Turnbull who is currently their leader is very Labor orientated and some commentators say he tried to enter the Labor party previously.

    Liberal and National Parties normally form a coalition

  34. Anthony, yes it will be a litmus test but please do not think that the US has a parallel situation. There are many political differences that you should be aware of. There are also some similarities.

    The Liberals (Republicans?) lost the last election after 11 years in power. The main reason they lost is that their leader John Howard tried to push though some industrial legislation that the unions convinced the voters was too much too soon.

    There was also a disagreement over who would take-over his party. Howard hung on too long and his worthy successor, the brilliant Peter Costello, became disillusioned and refused the poisoned chalice when his party lost the election.

    There has been no real leader since so Turnbull (a small L – left leaning) egotist grabbed leadership and ever since has been trying to enforce his views.

    His party who have considered themselves to be in the wilderness has gone along with just about anything that Turnbull, who keeps going down in the polls, decides until now. Now is when the Liberal core have stood up for their values and created an internet flood of protest against the ETS and everything Turnbull is doing. But he does have a number of henchmen who support him and this has split the party.

    One of his supporters Joe Hockey is a popular figure who could heal wounds within the party and would probably win the vote on a leadership spill. He also has a very large and young family that could influence his decision to stand. The other contender Tony Abbott opposes any ETS but in the past has expressed some very radically conservative views that his party believe could influence his election prospects.

    So, in conclusion if Turnbull wins next week the sceptics have had a major loss. If Abbott wins they have had a major victory and if Hockey contends and wins it is still a draw. In any event if the sceptics can reduce the political spin and encourage more debate it will be still be invaluable progress for the sceptic’s cause.

  35. I’d think you’d have to be awfully closed-minded not to realise there hasn’t been a consensus for years.
    Thanks to Mr Bolt for his work in informing the public.

  36. ETS and Copenhagen will turn Australia into a province of China.
    There is one advantage, Rudd already speaks Chinese.

  37. Andy (00:05:07)
    Pretty much. Labor (left) is a majority government, because it has a clear majority in the House. It doesn’t control the Senate – governments here rarely do.

    But remember, governments here have a big stick to wave at the Senate. If House legislation is blocked they can call an election for both houses. If they stand well in the polls, that’s very persuasive, because otherwise the Senate rotates over six years as in the US. I think Turnbull supports ETS on principle, but it’s also tactically the safer course for his party.

  38. The issue of how to get the message out isnt a particularly hard one.

    Flyers cost nothing to print out and trawl the local car parks pinning one to the windshield.

    In the UK Billboards can be hired.
    Messages such as ” Glimategate. Google it now! Read the story the main stream media isnt reporting!”

    Dosent cost anything to put a flyer in the back window of your car.

    You can leaflet houses. If these methods only encourage a few people to make the effort to look deeper then its worth it.

    Fwd to everyone in your address book and so on.

    Just because the MSM are “deniers” ( the irony huh?) dosent mean they will win the war.

    Slowly slowly, catchy monkey.

  39. These are probably the most important days in Australian politics since Federation in 1901. Amongst the many astonishing aspects to this current drama convulsing the Liberals is that their outraged constituency is showing that they are far better informed than many of the politicians. The lesson in this, utterly shocking to the ABC and primary media, is that people in vast numbers are by-passing the regular ‘news’ services for their vital information. A decade of relentless advocacy journalism and political spin doctoring has utterly infuriated a population starved for honest dialogue. The internet, like an electronic samizdat, has been a vital resource in this process of energizing a hitherto muted nation. Thanks Anthony, thanks Andrew, for your priceless effort. But a dark age is threatening to dawn and we still have work to do!

  40. >>Nick (23:30:36) : “Dr A Burns, I think Turbull is Labour”

    Nick, You can be forgiven for thinking so but he’s actually the head of the Opposition, a supposed Liberal … not that the Opposition does much opposing these days. I doubt that most of either party have heard of ClimateGate or would do anything about it if they did.

    >>Greg : “Ian Plimer is worth having a listen too, he’s the only sane one left in Australia with Andrew Bolt!! ”

    Greg, There are actually quite a few good men here in Oz. Bob Carter is quite sane has given many excellent presentations. There’s even a Climate Skeptics Party. I do lots of letter writing to the local rags and even scored the first and only mention of ClimateGate.

  41. In the interests of balance I think as a fellow Australian I should put another point of view and present some facts as they stand currently, in contrast to Andrew Bolt’s view of Liberal Party MPs being “bombarded by emails”. This weekend the Australian newspaper published their Newspoll results. Newspoll is one of the most accurate polling services in Australia. Newspoll results indicate that 67% of all voters want an ETS – further, 61% of country people want an ETS. Of the Liberal/National Party Coalition supporters, 57% are in favour of an ETS, while only 34% are against. In view of these facts, it puts the current Liberal Party boilover on leadership, at the very least, somewhat interesting considering there is a common belief that Liberal Party MP’s are reluctant to support the ETS for fear of being voted out by their electorate. Adding to the intrigure further, more detailed polling by Newspoll indicates that by voting against the ETS is likely to result in no less than 20 members losing their seat in comparison to a pro ETS stance.

  42. Mark.R
    And at that Commonwealth meeting Gordon Brown fatuously promised $10bn to be transferred to third world nations to assist in their efforts to contain CO2. This from the man who over 10 years systematically emptied the Treasury and borrowed recklessly when those coffers were bare. With Quantative Easing his ongoing demonstration of fiscal rectitude, he still has the gall to swan around the restricted world stage of the Commonwealth Conference with a rictus smile handing out largesse which we no longer possess.
    Then at the end he involves HM Qeen Elizabeth 2nd in the political statements of the final speeches.
    Her Majesty did however appear disgruntled by the bilge she was almost certainly obliged to read and perhaps was thinking as she read what an Anus Horribilis she had been lumbered with as Prime Minister.

  43. President Sarkozy – There must be a new world governance in Copenhagen

    French President Nicolas Sarkozy is calling for a World Environmental Organisation to deal with climate change and environmental topics. “We must develop a world environmental organisation…There must be a new world governance in Copenhagen,” he said. Sarkozy, who is the first French President to attend a British Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM), made the call at a news conference yesterday at the International Financial Centre, Port-of-Spain.

    http://guardian.co.tt/news/general/2009/11/28/sarkozy-set-world-body-deal-climate-change

  44. “ralph (00:24:33) :

    There are not many subversive activities in the UK any more. Margaret Thatcher had to endure Spitting Image each week, but Labour have banned criticism and satire of anything and everything. Top Gear is as good as it gets nowadays, and that is why people watch it. (And that’s why the army have devoted 192 days of army training to Top Gear programs.)”

    OMG! Yes, this is true. Thatchers’ “don’t care bears”. Norman Tebbit was “Bastard Bear”. Although seems any YouTube video about it appears pulled.

    And what is KRudd747 doing? Ignoring reality and “palling” up with Brown and The Queen. Bad move Rudd, bad move.

    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/commonwealth-seeks-to-shape-copenhagen-talks-20091128-jxe9.html

  45. American Thinker states “This is our Berlin Wall moment! They can’t stop us now!”

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/11/tear_down_the_warmist_wall.html

    Vaclav Klaus has a totally different view:

    “I have already been at a UN Summit in Copenhagen before. It was in 1995 at the so-called Social Summit. At that time, the Summit was attended by then U.S. Vice President Al Gore who — so it seems — will be there again this year. I did also attend, as Prime Minister of the Czech Republic, but I don’t plan to go there now.
    I don’t see any chance to influence the results or to be listened to”.

    Copenhagen will be a political isolated event and when it’s over, the free world will have ceased to exist.

    Conclusion, stop Copenhagen!!!!!

    http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2009/11/05/v-225-clav-klaus-largest-tax-increase-in-world-history.aspx

  46. @Greg (23:23:54) :

    “Consensus never means anything in Science, people had Consensus when the earth was flat, but the skeptic turned it around.

    “Ian Plimer is worth having a listen too, he’s the only sane one left in Australia with Andrew Bolt!!

    http://files.me.com/donaldc/f6egi9.mp3

    Greg is absolutely right – and Ian Plimer’s podcast is very well worth a listen. IMHO it is well worthy of being promoted to a full posting on WUWT.

    His book “Heaven and Earth – Global warming: the missing science” is also an essential read. A relative sent me a cutting from The Times:- August 22 Book Review, to which I then responded:-

    “I think it is a very impressive book. I thought I knew a fair amount about the subject but some of the detailed information especially on geology was new to me. Fascinating.

    “This kind of stuff from the Times was one of the reasons I discontinued my subscription. I don’t mind the odd silly climate scare story or article. I guess it is to be expected from the media – they want to flog newspapers after all. But the absolute censorship of the debate that is going on in scientific circles about each and every aspect of the “Anthropogenic Global Warming” theory (or should it be religion?) is worrying – particularly when you consider the huge sums of money that are being spent and massive distortions being set up in the economy on the basis of the AGW theory. In a period of over three months reading The Times and The Sunday Times, this sad apology for a review is about the only acknowledgement that there even IS a debate. The media (and the BBC may be the worst of the lot) push the notion that the science is “settled” and there is “consensus”. (As if consensus was how science develops! Consensus is what politicians seek!) The only major newspaper who even attempts to present some balance is the Daily Telegraph, which whilst full of AGW news stories, at least publishes Christopher Booker’s column which does promote a different perspective.

    “In the mean time, I guess the average UK household is already spending perhaps £1000 per year in taxes and higher energy prices based on ‘combating climate change’ (and this will increase exponentially as we move towards ‘emissions reduction targets’ to which we have signed up.

    “I note that The Times’ “reviewer” Bob Ward (whilst attempting to rubbish Plimer, (who is Professor of Mining Geology at the University of Adelaide and Emeritus Professor of Earth Sciences at the University of Melbourne and who has published over 120 scientific papers) – is the “Policy & Communications Director at the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment”. In other words he is the PR guy for an outfit that has been set up at the taxpayer’s expense specifically to promote the Global Warming religion and whose continued existence (and no doubt Mr. Ward’s continued ability to pay his mortgage) depends absolutely on promoting this stuff.

    “Unfortunately, carefully reading the review doesn’t convince me that he has even necessarily held a copy of the book in his hands, much less read it. You get the flavour from paragraphs such as:-

    “”The first chapter contains a number of blunders and some highly contentious statements. In the second paragraph (sic), he claims that “depopulation, social disruption, extinctions, disease and catastrophic droughts take place in cold times and life blossoms and economies boom in warm times”. On this extraordinary logic we should, presumably, be doing all we can to promote global warming.”

    “In fact this selective quotation from the third paragraph of Plimer’s introduction sets the agenda for a considerable section of Plimer’s book. It isn’t ‘extraordinary logic’, it is a bald statement of facts, facts which are developed at length, explained and comprehensively referenced in the book (there are 2311 footnotes in all, the vast majority of which reference published scientific papers). The “doing all we can to promote global warming” is Ward’s straw man. In fact one of the central planks in Plimer’s book is that it is absolute hubris to imagine that mankind, using its very best endeavours, is capable of greatly affecting the climate one way or another.

    “And is it ‘extraordinary’, or even slightly contentious that the Roman Warm Period and the Mediaeval Warm Period (or even the long period of recovery from the Little Ice Age which ended in the middle of the C.19th) WERE periods when economies boomed and life for most people got better? The only point at contention here is the fact that both warm periods and the little ice age were airbrushed from the historical record in order to produce the notorious ‘hockey stick’ graph which was the poster child of the 2001 IPCC report and retained in the 2007 IPCC report (and is still trotted out today to justify ‘urgent action’) despite having been comprehensively demolished in the scientific literature.

    “Another good example is Ward’s “Plimer makes the curious statement that ‘the year of 2008 was an exceptionally cold year’, with a footnote reference to an online US newspaper that doesn’t appear to exist”.

    “Well, the newspaper article which doesn’t exist is:-

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/10/global-warming-freeze/

    (Plimer’s footnote on page 26 has a typo – it gives ……warming/freeze/ ) It took me about 30 seconds to find the article in question. This piece, (by David Deming () a geophysicist, an adjunct scholar with the National Center for Policy Analysis and an associate professor of arts and sciences at the University of Oklahoma) is worth reading itself but Ward unaccountably omits any reference to Plimer’s page of references confirming his initial “curious statement”.

    “Anyway, I could go on much longer but I’d better get to work and help get some more coal out of the ground or we’ll all be sitting around with the lights out.

    “I suspect Ward’s review has most likely been culled from blog comments posted on one of the alarmist websites, probably http://www.realclimate.org. I very much doubt he even attempted to read the book.

    Events have now moved on, of course.

    The science (as exemplified by many of the postings here, on CA and other sites – as well as books by Plimer, Michaels and many others) is important to me and readers here. But I doubt if either Turnbull or Little Kevin Rudd, Genius of the Antipodes (or Obama. or Blair. or Brown), care two hoots about the science, even if they have made any attempt whatever to investigate it.

    What they are all interested in is Power. All have had (Turnbull, Blair) or are enjoying their brief spell at the “top”. All are ambitious and realise that when the voters tire of them, a member of the political elite in World Government is the job to have. No tiresome elections, little hassle from the media, a sybaritic lifestyle and a huge index linked pension for life. Worth going after! No wonder AGW is “too big to fail!”

    For slightly lesser mortals here in the UK, there is of course our beloved EU, to which successive governments have surrendered almost all their powers.
    An interesting piece (one of many) is:-

    http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2009/11/beaucoup-des-euros.html

    which points out that the unelected (and probably unelectable) Baroness Ashton is now on £241,000 pa basic salary. A week ago, no one in the UK had heard of her. Now, no one around the world has heard of her. That’s a long week in politics for you.

  47. Australia follows the two house Westminster Parliamentary system. There is a federal government as well as state governments.
    The electoral voting system is a not a first past the post system – rather a proportional voting / preference system. The winner of a seat in one of the houses combines primary votes and receives a number of booster votes of preference from other candidates in the seat.
    The Senate is a highly suspect system. e.g. There are Green Senators that can receive only 5 – 6 % of primary vote however preferences will get them elected to a seat – (Crazy).

    The Lower House (House of Representatives) majority forms the government of the day.
    The current governement os the Labor Party (more or less equivalent to the Democrats). They rely on the Green party for preferences – this gets them elected to power. (The Greens are your normal run of the mill watermelons).
    The Current opposition is the conservatives – The Liberal party and a coalition of the National party .
    The Labor party has a clear majority on the lower house however there is a balance of power in the Senate with a few Independents. The government requires the vote of the Independents and the greens to get a bill passed through the Senate.
    Bills of law are not usually voted on if there is an agreement or bi-partisan approach.

    The Labor government was not voted in on Green issues. Rather, the last conservative Prime Minister (John Howard) made an electoral blunder on domestic Union affiliated issues. (Work Choices).

    The Labor party – and government is not a party of the people. Policy is decided by a Caucus ( an inner party committee – not necessarily elected officials). Elected members must vote on bills along party lines – as decided by Caucus – except in the rare occasions of a free member vote – e.g. abortion issues (Vote of Conscious).

    The current Prime Minister (The Parliamentary leader) is Mr Kevin Rudd (KRudd). He was a career diplomat. He is also known as a bit of a megalomaniac and has Visions of Grandeur. His ultimate aim is to have some high ranking position at the U.N.
    He has made some diplomatic gaffes in the last couple of months and some of the near neighbours are not overly happy with his performance. Hence he wants to big note himself in CopenHoaxen with a carbon trading scheme in hand.

    Mt KRudd’s Labor government has introduced an Emission Trading Scheme bill into Parliament. The conservative opposition rather then rejecting the bill outright suggested a whole raft of amendments. TRhe conservatives thought that KTuddy would reject those amendments and the bill would not pass throgh until after CopenHoaxen.
    The KRuddy made an outflanking maneuver and agreed to all of the Conservatives amendments therefore trapping them onto agreeing to pass the bill. – Just in tome for CopenHoaxen.
    The amendments were made up by the Conservative leader – Mr. Malcolm Turnbull over the objections of the majority of his colleagues. Mr Turnbull is a Merchant Banker and has allegedly been formerly associated with Goldman Sachs. He is also a bot of a warminista.

    So. The ETS bill has reached the Senate for debate and passing. In the last week a revolution occurred within the opposition ranks. It seems the majority of the conservative members are not in favor of ant ETS. They see it for what is reealyy is – a crippling Tax.
    The mutineers have twice called for the leader to resign – he has survived once. A leadership spill will take place on Tuesday.
    The Bill will be in the house on Monday. It is up to the mutineers to have the vote on passage delayed until after the leadership spill. The government may try and ram the vote through on Monday while Mr Turnbull is still the leader.

    FWIW the Greens are against the Bill in its present form. They also can see that the ETS is just another crippling Tax and will have no effect on reducing alleged Green House gas emissions. However, they are likely to vote with the bill on Monday. If the bill makes it through Monday without a vote they will probably side with the new conservative leader and strike it down hoping to opt for stronger legislation later.

  48. Anthony
    I emailed Phil Willis MP chair of the House of Commons Science and Technology Select Committee and asked him to talk to you about your surface stations survey. I also suggested he look into the role of skepticism and science.

    Whether he does either is doubtful, but as one of the UK supermarket chain says “every little helps”

  49. >>Doesn’t cost anything to put a flyer in the back window of your car.

    Yes, but we have no flier to print.

    Anyone good with Photoshop, and can put together a nice A4 and A5 flier for us to print out?

    .

  50. In Australia the prime minister is pushing extremely hard for a carbon pollution reduction scheme. The term carbon pollution is in itself somewhat of a misnomer for a major element, in mammalian species at least, is carbon. However in addition to spruiking carbon pollution this prime minister wants to see the population of Australia grow from 22 million to 35 million. The dichotomy of these views is totally lost on the MSM

  51. “Richard (02:22:34) :

    In the interests of balance I think as a fellow Australian I should put another point of view and present some facts as they stand currently, in contrast to Andrew Bolt’s view of Liberal Party MPs being “bombarded by emails”. This weekend the Australian newspaper published their Newspoll results. Newspoll is one of the most accurate polling services in Australia. Newspoll results indicate that 67% of all voters want an ETS – further, 61% of country people want an ETS. Of the Liberal/National Party Coalition supporters, 57% are in favour of an ETS, while only 34% are against. In view of these facts, it puts the current Liberal Party boilover on leadership, at the very least, somewhat interesting considering there is a common belief that Liberal Party MP’s are reluctant to support the ETS for fear of being voted out by their electorate. Adding to the intrigure further, more detailed polling by Newspoll indicates that by voting against the ETS is likely to result in no less than 20 members losing their seat in comparison to a pro ETS stance.”

    Want an ETS, but why? Because of climate change popaganda? The Australia public, and the world, has been lied to. The Australian public, the majority of the Australian public, have no idea about anything unless it’s on TV or in the MSM.

  52. There has been coverage of ClimateGate (was I the first to call it thus on WUWT?) in Australia but it has been hard to pick out, and would have been lost on the viewers not familiar with the issue.

    The last question from Kerry O’Brien to Penny Wong (Minister for Climate Change) in the 7:30 Report covered the CRU emails -which she completely evaded like the rest of the questions:

    “KERRY O’BRIEN: Speaking of the science, very quickly, what’s your reaction to the emails from the East Anglia climate change research unit in Britain obtained by hackers, which sceptics are now using to claim that leading scientists are manipulating climate change data to get the outcomes they want to promote climate change. Did those revelations give you any pause for thought, any concern?

    PENNY WONG: I looked to where the weight of the science is, where the consensus science is, and I look to the fact that our own scientific institutions in Australia, the CSIRO, the Bureau of Meteorology, the international scientific community. I look to …

    KERRY O’BRIEN: But these are part of the international science community.

    PENNY WONG: I look to these people. And it’s very clear that the weight of scientific opinion, the consensus science is that climate change is real, that human beings are contributing to it and we have to start to do something about it. The time for action is now.”

    Source: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2009/s2752437.htm

    Australia’s ACA (A Current Affair) also ran a decent balanced anti-AGW story last week:

    http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-au&brand=ninemsn&tab=m164

    I haven’t watched much TV lately TBH… The Turnbull story seems to override the ETS interest, even though the two are tied. He disingenuously pushed the party room meeting back to Tuesday 1 December so that there could be another full day of senate wrangling on the ETS bill before he gets turfed out as leader.

    as for Howard campaigning before his fall last election including an ETS in the party’s policy, everyone knows this was merely to buy votes. No one seriously thought he would introduce the legislation … and certainly not before the rest of the world opted in at the IPCC junkets.

    He was playing it for political gain… obviously.

  53. Konrad (23:41:26) :
    One bit of cheering news from Australia is that Kevin Rudd (PM) has said he would not be seeking a double dissolution if the Enormous Tax Scam is not passed by the senate.

    Rudd didn’t say that. He said his intention was to serve the full term (till next spring). Even there, he has plenty of wiggle room. But he could do it and still look to a double dissolution at the end of term That’s a very good option for him. He cleans out a hostile senate in one go, and still gets a joint sitting after the election, at which the ETS will probably pass even if Labor doesn’t get control of the Senate. But his prospect of getting control would be much better than at a regular election.

  54. Peredux is right in that many of the general community are better informed than the politicians. For at least 10 years there have been many people and organisations in Australia trying to get correct information to the politicians on both sides – Liberal and Labor. You think they understand, then they start talking about emissions trading. Hey, we do not need emissions trading, CO2 is not the culprit – and they give you a glazed look and wander off.

  55. Richard says (inter alia):

    Newspoll is one of the most accurate polling services in Australia. Newspoll results indicate that 67% of all voters want an ETS [… and there would be] no [fewer] than 20 members losing their seat in comparison to a pro ETS stance.

    The article in The Australian also includes:

    The Newspoll survey, taken in mid-September […]
    (Emphasis mine.)

    Umm, wasn’t mid-September a little before the e-mails were leaked? I’d wager that a fair poll—one that would allow people to vote against an ETS completely rather than just asking whether people support Rudd’s or Turnbull’s ETS—would, if conducted now, yield far different results. By the time of the next poll, there is a slight possibility that more people might have more doubts over the “settled science” and “consensus”.

  56. Andrew Bolt has done an outstanding job down here in Australia as one of the few prominent journalists to challenge greenhouse alarmism. He has shown an impressive grasp of the scientific issues involved and has communicated them clearly to the voters. Most journalists and politicians have simply parroted the ‘consensus’ that ‘climate change is a reality’ (natural or anthropogenic? – they don’t ask!), and that sceptics are ‘denialists’ – an insult with holocaust-denial overtones. They omit to mention that global temperatures have not risen since 1998. Blind faith in the IPCC and computer models, plus junk science about melting polar icecaps, are their forte.

    Politics: The Labor party, a centre-left party representing blue-collar laborers through to intellectual social liberals, is led by Kevin Rudd. He wants to pass an ETS before Copenhagen, supposedly setting an example to the world. Since Australia produces only 1.4% of global CO2 emissions, many doubt that this ‘leadership’ will achieve anything except damaging Australia’s economy. Mr Rudd’s party will sell emission-reducing uranium from our huge supplies to China but not India (she has not signed a non-proliferation treaty, yet only wants our uranium for civilian purposes). The Labor party also will not allow Australia to use nuclear power, instead tirelessly recommending ‘renewable energy sources’ which somehow never actually come to much.

    Australia’s Liberals equate to US conservatives – they are Liberals in economic terms but tend to conservatism in social matters. They are in coalition with the Nationals – a rural lobby. Turnbull the coalition’s rather liberal (US sense) leader shares Rudd’s view that Australia should pass an ETS before Copenhagen. This has produced a sharp backlash from grassroots and party, with many totally sceptical. Others simply want to see what happens at Copenhagen with the big emitters – China, the US, the EU – before Australia commits herself. They would also like to see what becomes of Climategate – how much of that endlessly promoted ‘consensus’ would survive a critical scrutiny of these revelations?

    Australia also has a small but vocal and media-adored Green movement which can produce endless policy absurdities with impunity. It was Australia’s Green movement who gave you Peter Singer, the animal liberationist who won’t eat meat but will kill babies after birth if they are not ‘normal’ (would my extreme myopia have qualified me for such infanticide, I wonder?)

  57. Richard (02:22:34) :

    Thats the trouble Richard, when only one side of an argument is forever put to a gullible population, distracted by mind numbing tv programmes, cheap alcohol to keep them sedated and all the rest.

    If youre only ever told theres nothing outside the box then youll likely not be inclined to bother looking.

  58. If you really want the perfect summation of what is happening, read Mark Steyn’s brilliant piece here:

    http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/peer-221438-reviewed-climate.html

    ”And that’s what Andrew Revkin did, week in, week out: He took the words out of Michael Mann’s mouth and served them up to impressionable readers of the New York Times and opportunist politicians around the world champing at the bit to inaugurate a vast global regulatory body to confiscate trillions of dollars of your hard-earned wealth in the cause of “saving the planet” from an imaginary crisis concocted by a few dozen thuggish ideologues. If you fall for this after the revelations of the past week, you’re as big a dupe as Begley or Revkin.”

  59. “Keith Minto (23:20:17) :

    It is the speed of change that is surprising and it has caught the Politicians by surprise. ”

    I think this will become more and more surprising. Up till now most people I think haven’t known really that much about it. They just think that reducing pollution can’t be bad what ever.

    However, as this tax heist becomes more and more clear people will start looking at the actual evidence, and realise there isn’t any. There’s an interesting article on Pajamas Media about a “civilian” sticking his nose into the data and finding what everyone else has found, that it doesn’t stack up. http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/climategate-the-travails-of-a-global-warming-hobbyist/ and that when you ask them for explications of what they are doing you don’t get any.

    I started becoming suspicious when I noticed that although I had seen plenty of reasoned refutations of AGW, I had actually seen [i]no[/i] reasoned defence of it. I have still seen no reasoned defence of it.

    An interesting factoid about the recent ban of light bulbs in the EU. I personally had no idea that it actually meant nothing but fluo or halogen light, two lighting systems I have avoided all my life (halogen because it’s ridiculously non-green because of the wattage it takes!). The shop keepers were telling me that people were stocking up.

    I think that when people actually start boning up on this, they will all come to the same conclusion the rest of us have.

  60. Thank god for the internet.The mainstream media just can’t be trusted to report openly on issues like this. In fact they’re part of the problem and have to report or suppress at the dictate of their paymasters. In Britain democracy is all but dead and the power of the internet is our only remaining hope as individuals of having any influence on matters that affect our daily lives.

  61. I liked the add… Touch long perhaps… But certainly much better than Polar bears tumbling from the sky and splattering on pavements….

    It also gives facts, which is always missing from the AGW proponents.

    As to our about to be spilled, Coalition leader?….

    Malcolm Turnbull had his chance to lead the Liberal party on Conservative principles. To stand up and fight this violent ETS tax on the Australian people.

    He could have stood as a pillar of support for the sceptical viewpoint also and championed scrutiny and transparency.

    As an opposition leader he could have asked for the HadCRUT and GISS data bases and methodology to be released in the most public of forums. The Australian Parliament….

    …. But he failed in all respects to be a leader, let alone be a conservative leader of a conservative party.

    Thus Turnbull must be spilled from it’s leadership.

    Andrew Bolt is indeed a shining light in this ever darkening country. It is good to know that some Journalists do seek the truth, for truth’s sake.

  62. http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2009/s2755430.htm

    SIMON SANTOW: He says the most recent poll on the topic, in September this year, showed that two thirds of those asked were still in favour of the Government’s proposed carbon reduction scheme. That was before the amendments, including excluding agriculture, were agreed on earlier this week.
    MARTIN O’SHANNESSY: The idea of going it alone had sort of softened up. We find that at the moment about 45 per cent of voters in total feel we should wait till after Copenhagen, 41 per cent saying we should go it alone, the rest are undecided.

    So, there’s a bit of a split in the population there and I think if you look at Coalition supporters about six in 10, 58 per cent say we should wait whereas almost the opposite, 51 per cent of Labor supporters say we should go for it now.
    End
    Why is this poll dragged out now?My bet is the date of the poll is not mentioned in most news articles.

  63. I was thinking that this is moving beyond a simple scandle, it’s an “inconvenient revolution” that has started.

  64. Anthony, you and your readers may not be aware that Andrew Bolt would generally be ignored by most say left of centre right. He does not agree with climate change, he does not agree that anything bad was done to Aboriginal people of Australia (paraphrase but you get my drift)… etc etc… so he is a bit like an extreme Fox News commentator… appeals to his audience but his audience are already converted. So while Mr Bolt is spreading your news it is a bit like having the boy who cried wolf warning you that a pack is on the way down form the mountains. I’m trying not to give you the warmist lefty perspective here, but bolt coverage does not carry the weight it may have once done, as politically he country is trying to move on from the John Howard era and associated policies, greenhouse scepticism being one of them.

  65. But Bulldust you have to admit howard made the bed the Libs are now lying in… he led his troops and ardent followers to the last election backing an ETS.

  66. P Stanbrook (01:59:57)

    Thanks for the link to the Cameron article – I got his email last night and sent a salvo back.

    It’s wonderful to see so many other like minds are angry/appalled enough to respond like that – there must be hundresds of responses nevermind those who emailed back.

    I really do hope he grows a pair and takes this head on. I know he’s been successfully confusing soft LibDem voters with all his husky-hugging, but things have changed during this last week thanks to our FOI2009 friend and great blogs like WUWT and ClimateAudit.

    This makes our MPs expense fiddling and MMR scares seem like a storm in a tea cup.

  67. You also have to take in to account that Rudd’s ETS/CPRS is just about the most lenient sell-out of a policy you could imagine (if you are a warmist). Massive handouts to intensive emitters, agriculture excluded… it is a Claytons ETS (see end for explanation). The coal lobby over here is so powerful, combined with the fact that unions representing workers from our coal areas that could be decimated essentially own the Labor party (Government), that I guess it could never be any other way. Promised investment in the fool’s gold that is carbon capture and storage etc.

    Furthermore I feel (and I’m not a Labor voter) that the rush to get it in place PRE Copenhagen is so that we don’t get pressured in to doing something more meaningful POST Copenhagen…. as “pioneers” it will be accepted that as a reward for setting the scene Australia gets a good deal (just like we wrangled in Kyoto).

    So then the real “skeptic” would then wonder if this surge of skepticism in the Liberal Party is not in fact some sort of orchestrated ploy to even water down our ETS further, and have Rudd say to the world in private (I did my best, but look at these lunatics I’ve had to deal with). It is so absurd the politics right now that it makes more sense to see it as one big charade as Australian politics, unions and business collude to make sure that we get to set the agenda on how much we reduce our CO2, not some UN Committee (as we dont trust them to be honest).

    Lastly, we could then essentially make the switch to nuclear power and end up having to make no reductions elsewhere in our economy.

    Your readers should realise that while Rudd and Wong are playing the heart strings of our children’s children’s children etc etc, their ETS delivers anything other than the CO2 reductions suggested by your nemesis the consensus science.

    (Claytons – Australian reference to a non-alcoholic wine advert from the 80s I think…. Claytons, the drink you have when you’re not having a drink, so Claytons ETS is the ETS you have when…. get it?).

  68. http://www.climatescience.org.nz/images/PDFs/global_warming_nz2.pdf

    IMO the New Zealand climategate situation is the easiest to tackle.FORGET station adjustment – why is the data CRANKED DOWN at least 0.5C in 6/7 cases from the start of the dataset.It’s the smoking gun.Instead of showing the NIWA and raw data charts,show the 7 New Zealand MS charts on the blog.Which New Zealand television stations/newspapers can I email,please?

  69. Bulldust (02:52:47) :

    Anthony gives you the credit for the first use of the term Climategate on this blog here.

    Here is a direct link to Bulldust’s historic Climategate comment.

  70. M White (05:01:34) :

    The reports that the UEA have been told to get their story straight by our Foreign Office mandarins/broadcast media non-coverage except in very specialist political programmes [such as Daily Politics/This Week/Newsnight] says a lot.

    Since 98% of our politicians have no science background and have been greenwashed into believing AWG, it’s no wonder that they’re hiding behind the sofa.

    Upthread someone made a very good observation about environment journalists being humanity/arts grads rather than scientists was spot on.

    They don’t know what to say or how to interpret this – I’d be like asking me to comment on meritsof opera productions.

    I imagine that the blow back the UK Conservative party got to their email last night shocked them.

  71. ‘The Consensus’ is that Global Warming is a SCAM.

    There is major change rumbling in Australia with the public.

    The Scandal is Malcolm ‘turcoat Goldman Sachs’ Turnbull, Australian Leader of the opposition LIBERAL PARTY (eg: Republican party, role same as McCain) is actually a Fabian Socialist), he once tried to Join Labour Party ie: like Democrats, he use to head up GOLDMAN SACHS Operations in Australia (on a $$Million salary, leaving that for a poor $100,000 politicians salary!!! WHY?! What Motive!?!). He is a trained paid Goldman Sachs Change Agent within the LIBERAL PARTY, and still has major investments in Goldman Sachs.

    TURNBULL is Pushing the Goldman Sachs, Globalist Agenda to vote ‘For’ the ETS (Emissions Trading Scheme ‘aka’ Carbon Trading Scheme)

    This all started 2 weeks ago when Lord Monckton’s Minnesota speech was released on Youtube. Australia’s leading radio station network 2GB played the speech (on David Oldfield, Brian Wiltshire and Alan Jones segments), and finally Alan Jones of 2GB interviewed Lord Monckton about this Copenhagen Treaty, and what it was all about.

    1.
    Lord Monckton interview, Alan Jones, 2GB Sydney

    [audio src="http://podcasts.2gb.com/alanjones/alanjonesmonckton261009b.mp3" /]

    Then Monkcton suggest Jones interview MIT Prof Lindzen

    2.
    Prof Richard Lindzen interview, Alan Jones, 2GB Sydney

    [audio src="http://podcasts.2gb.com/alanjones/alanjoneslindzen301009.mp3" /]

  72. If the goverments of the UK, USA and Australia pass the climage change laws they now do so at great risk of inciting revolt within their citizenry.
    Are they that stupid?
    I.E. – if you passed laws that imposed intentional savagery on your economy and the people knew what the outcome was going to be, plus they knew the reasoning was bogus, would not that put the legitimacy of governement in widespead contempt?
    At this point, there has to be serious talk within govenment leadership circles of going down a road that has “coup” written all over it. And that has to put them on pins & needles.

    The path for govenment to back out with face-saving grace is wide open. They merely have to cite “ClimateGate” concerns, and they can opt out. You know how politicians like to look good.
    Here it is. Your golden parachute, and you keep your smiling face & base intact.

  73. There is major change rumbling in Australia with the public.

    The Scandal is Malcolm ‘turcoat Goldman Sachs’ Turnbull, Australian Leader of the opposition LIBERAL PARTY (eg: Republican party, role same as McCain) is actually a Fabian Socialist), he once tried to Join Labour Party ie: like Democrats, he use to head up GOLDMAN SACHS Operations in Australia (on a $$Million salary, leaving that for a poor $100,000 politicians salary!!! WHY?! What Motive!?!). He is a trained paid Goldman Sachs Change Agent within the LIBERAL PARTY, and still has major investments in Goldman Sachs.

    TURNBULL is Pushing the Goldman Sachs, Globalist Agenda to vote ‘For’ the ETS (Emissions Trading Scheme ‘aka’ Carbon Trading Scheme)

    This all started 2 weeks ago when Lord Monckton’s Minnesota speech was released on Youtube. Australia’s leading radio station network 2GB played the speech (on David Oldfield, Brian Wiltshire and Alan Jones segments), and finally Alan Jones of 2GB interviewed Lord Monckton about this Copenhagen Treaty, and what it was all about.

  74. Hmmm… Looks like Climategate has made a massive difference in just a week…

    [quote]
    Richard (02:22:34) – “In the interests of balance”:

    This weekend the Australian newspaper published their Newspoll results. Newspoll is one of the most accurate polling services in Australia. Newspoll results indicate that 67% of all voters want an ETS – further, 61% of country people want an ETS. Of the Liberal/National Party Coalition supporters, 57% are in favour of an ETS, while only 34% are against. [/quote]

    Please note that the poll was taken between Nov 13 & 156.

    So, also “in the interests of balance”, this weekend the Galaxy poll (done just this Friday night) suggests a different story:

    [quote]
    … a huge 80 per cent of voters do not believe the Government has provided sufficient details about an ETS with only 26 per cent now supporting the Turnbull-Rudd push for the Senate to pass it into law immediately. … Nine out of 10 Coalition supporters – and three out of four Labor voters – say they don’t understand the ETS and want the Government to explain it better. [/quote]

    See:

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sunday-telegraph/malcolm-turnbull-stance-cops-a-poll-axing/story-e6frewt0-1225804931828

    cheers

    Arnost

  75. After the Lord Monckton interview, Alan Jones, 2GB Radio Station in Sydney
    Monkcton suggest Jones interview MIT Prof Richard Lindzen, wich he did on 30h October 2009.
    Then Australian Nationals Politician BARNABY JOYCE started his online Petition to STOP the ETS, The Barnaby Joyce interview on the Global Carbon Tax SCAM with Alan Jones really got things started, as this led to finally the OUTRAGEOUS Alan Jones 2GB interview with Opposition Leader of LIBERAL Party Malcolm ‘turncoat Goldman Sachs’ Turnbull about the ETS and the Copenhagen Treaty. Turnbull was torn apart by Alan Jones, showing his true colours. After all Turnbull is a Fabian Socialist and Rhodes Scholar.
    Then all hell broke loose …….
    The people awoke…

  76. What makes this worse is Australia’s Prime Minister (same as Obama) Kevin ‘rude communist tyrant fascist’ RUDD, has complete Extreme Left Communist Propaganda support of the Australian media who;
    1. Refuse to Interview and probe Rudd about ‘The Treaty of Copenhagen’
    2. Report the truth of the issues, in an unbiased manner
    3. Report the facts that the Australian People are in REVOLT, thousands have called and emailed all the LIBERAL Politicians for 2 weeks, to force their conscience to stand down.

  77. I don’t know who these respected newspolls are asking, or how they’re couching the questions but they look as crook as the rest of the guff that’s being shoved down Australian’s throats at the moment.

    MAttB states above he’s “trying not to give you the warmist lefty perspective here, …” but he’s doing a damned good job just the same.

  78. “The major films are, but the show in the hangar is only filmed about a week before, to keep it topical. Climategate may be a bit too recent for this episode.”

    It”s the Thursday before it airs, you’ll recall discusion about upcoming F1 races that take place between the taping on Thursday, and the airing on Sunday.

  79. Mick – don’t you think Bolt would freely admit that he is seen as a right wing pundit who the left and centre dismiss with arrogance?

  80. Look at Watson’s sly glance at the camera at 5:10 approxiamately. The mask slipped then. At least it talks about the models (while showing pictures of huge computers) but Singer debunks it.BBC Newsnight.

  81. Mr Bolt is full of energy as ever.

    “…Frank J. Tipler, professor of mathematical physics at Tulane University, on the true significance of Climategate:

    The now non-secret data prove what many of us had only strongly suspected — that most of the evidence of global warming was simply made up. That is, not only are the global warming computer models unreliable, the experimental data upon which these models are built are also unreliable…”

    There does seem to be a growing trickle of nay-sayers coming forward/being listened to for the first time this week.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/

  82. Plato Says (05:16:05) :

    “Upthread someone made a very good observation about environment journalists being humanity/arts grads rather than scientists was spot on.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/biographies/biogs/news/susan_watts.shtml

    A degree in science seems irrelevant even for an environment journalists.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00p6bn0/Newsnight_23_11_2009/

    The one thing I would say is that in the years to come dispite increasing CO2 and a lack of catastrophic thermageddon our politicians and journalists will not be able to hide. When we get but the scientists said this, the scientists said that, there was a consensus, it just won’t wash. The e-mails have changed everything.

  83. I haven’t read them all yet but here is the count from Googling a minute ago

    Results 1 – 10 of about 11,400,000 for climategate. (0.21 seconds)

  84. MattB (06:55:20) :
    “Mick – don’t you think Bolt would freely admit that he is seen as a right wing pundit who the left and centre dismiss with arrogance?”

    I’d certainly say he’s a conservative but I also think that’s got little to do in essence with where you see yourself on the political scale… & after all it was yourself saying you were trying not to present a warmy leftist perspective.

    You say:
    “Anthony, you and your readers may not be aware that Andrew Bolt would generally be ignored by most say left of centre right. … so he is a bit like an extreme Fox News commentator…”

    That’s a little bit mixed up on several levels. Not to mention the fact that if I’m reading your own political affiliations correctly, unless what you’ve written counts as ‘generally ignoring’ him, you’ve got a fundamental problem with your basic storyline. I don’t see him gilding the lily in his email, it seems a true state of affairs down here.

    The mainstream media are basically trying to studiously ignore Climategate. They know they’ve been caught peddling alarmism, just the same as in every western country. They’re now trying to palm it out through tech or opinion slots & defuse it. Andrew Bolt isn’t ignoring it. Neither is Tim Blair & a few others. Pretty simple. We’re hearing about it down here, alright. And we’re talking amongst ourselves. The mainstream knows we know about it, & we know they know about it too. They just can’t bring themselves to admit it.

  85. I think it is ill advised to promote such an politicised video on this site. Here is why:

    Most of the reporting on climategate so far has reflex predictable political positions of the various mainstream media. And some of the positive coverage is easily disparaged by alarmists. I am thinking Fox News.

    The question for me is: How can we persuade the other media to cover this issue with all its impact and urgency?

    In the Australian mainstream political debate the only vocal recognistion of the legitimacy of scepticism has come from the political right (Family First, Nationals, Liberal right). These guys can keep hammering away and make some impact on their followers by making cheap and dubious political points – which this video does. They need not remind the voters that the push for the ETS legislation originated with the previous right-wing government of John Howard.

    The question for me is: How do we change the minds of those folks not on the political right and not easily impacted by such dubious politicising?

    My view is that the best way for this site to do this is to keep doing what it is doing so well, that is, keep pushing the issues of the science itself, and of scientific practice. But avoid visible attachment to other political agendas.

    Cracks are appearing that we can get our fingers into and push open. Even in the Australian ABC — which has given it some airplay on Lateline, PM, and the World Today. And among the alarmists themselves.

    This is not just Monbiot and Revkin
    (see latest NYT article http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/28/science/earth/28hack.html?_r=1)

    But to my mind Tim Flannery admitting, just before he heads to Compenhagen, that the world has not been warming recently and the models are not showing it is HUGE.

    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2692526.htm

  86. If the goverments of the UK, USA and Australia pass the climage change laws they now do so at great risk of inciting revolt within their citizenry.
    Are they that stupid?
    I.E. – if you passed laws that imposed intentional savagery on your economy and the people knew what the outcome was going to be, plus they knew the reasoning was bogus, would not that put the legitimacy of governement in widespead contempt?
    At this point, there has to be serious talk within govenment leadership circles of going down a road that has “coup” written all over it. And that has to put them on pins & needles.

    The path for govenment to back out with face-saving grace is wide open. They merely have to cite “ClimateGate” concerns, and they can opt out. You know how politicians like to look good.
    Here it is. Your hot potato to drop, pre-cooked.

  87. OT
    I happen to be a long term friend and confidant of a BBC new presenter. She phoned me tonight to tell me that there is ”all hell breaking loose” among news producers and presenters at the BBC over the coporation’s censoring of the Climagate story. NB At one meeting Paul Hudson has been told to ‘shut up’ by his senior colleague, Roger Harrabin.

  88. @rbateman (10:46:04)
    My suspicion is that today’s politicians and governments are just too arrogant and full of contempt for the people who elected them that they think they can get away with anything and the people will just accept it. Life in developed countries is still quite comfortable for most of the citizenry whose complacency prevents any meaningful challenge to governments’ decisions. Above all, most people don’t even know/understand/care about what’s unfolding here and also don’t know/understand/care about the ramifications of staying the course with the current AGW farce.

  89. Terry (10:49:29), Now that it is known that Harrabin is covering up the story, that should be mentioned in every blog. Call out the conspirators whereever possible. It should also be implied that this is being done at the ABC, and it is most likely the truth.

  90. Philip Mulholland (04:40:47) :

    ahhh crap – I have created a monster. I was being sarcastic because of the tired overuse of “XXXXX-Gate” in the media. Had I known it would catch on I would have kept my mouth shut LOL

  91. MattB (04:05:05) :

    “But Bulldust you have to admit Howard made the bed the Libs are now lying in… he led his troops and ardent followers to the last election backing an ETS.”

    Couldn’t agree more … it was unfortunate, populist electioneering. Howard was extremely desperate at the time. Ironic that much of the talk of CO2 taxation actually originated under England’s most Tory of Tory… the grand dame of cruel herself (I lived in Leeds during the early 80s – first degree at the University).

    I think this goes to show one thing… it really doesn’t matter which side of politics you are from. All politicians that are self-serving will promote a policy that centralizes power under them. In Australia at the moment they are tossing around a working paper on tax reform in which one of the issues is wresting control of mineral royalties from the States. Constitutionally minerals belong to the States

    The latter is almost redundant because the Federal Government does this in a lagged fashion through the Commonwealth Grants Scheme (CGS). Western Australia (WA – in which I live) has been the powerhouse of the economy for many years now (along with our banana-bending friends in Queensland). In the future we may see as little as half of the GST collected in this State returned to us because of normalisation through the CGS. I don’t know if there are similar mechanisms in the US, but in effect WA is being punished for being successful and is subsidizing underperforming economies like Tasmania and NSW.

    WA collects less royalties than Queensland even though we produce more than half the nation’s resources on a revenue basis. There is no incentive for us to increase royalties on the resources sector, because we will lose the vast majority of the raised funds to the other states, while simultaneously providing a disincentive for the resource companies to operate here. The resource industry defines WA – without it there would be a few hundred thousand people living here instead of 2.25 million (still very small given it is one third the size of the lower 48 US states).

    Then every time a major resource project arrives which requires substantial state support, do you think we can get much kicked in from the Feds? Good luck with that.

    Ironic is it not, that one of the few referenda WA actually managed to vote “YES” on was one to secede from the Federation, only to have it knocked back by the Crown on constitutional grounds.

    The WA Wiki entry:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Australia

    PS> WA is the only Australian State or Territory with a Liberal Government in power.

  92. MattB (04:05:05) :

    “But Bulldust you have to admit Howard made the bed the Libs are now lying in… he led his troops and ardent followers to the last election backing an ETS.”

    Of course Malcolm Turnbull is quite correct to remind people that the John Howard government supported an ETS. But what he does not say is that since that time there has been so much more information available that any sensible interest group would have to consider that original position. The press are not doing this, neither are most politicians. In fact some politicians are quite proud to admit they are voting on somehing they know nothing about, as they have been too lazy to find out.

  93. Thanks Arnost for the Galaxy poll update.

    Yes, I stand corrected! But in my defence, the Galaxy poll wasn’t published when I posted, being only published today (Sunday Australia). I’m not sure of the track record of the Galaxy poll over time, but if those results are correct, they signal a significant turnaround in public opinion. The Newspoll simply confirmed what the polls have been saying for a long time; not just the Newspoll. Note, Deadman was incorrect – the Newspoll results I quoted were taken in mid November.

    But what would have triggered this turnaround if it is correct? Climategate hasn’t really registered at all in the mainstream media as far as I can see. There were gushing reports of climate doom and gloom as a result of the release of the IPCC Copenhagen diagnosis report this week.

    Unless the blogosphere has had a bigger impact on this news than most would give credit for. I doubt it. Most voters would be listening/watching/reading mainstream media still IMHO.

  94. Once a woman actually finds out that her husband has been “fooling around” with a sweet young thang . . . that is when the fireworks begin. The public of a great many western culture countries had faith that the climate “scientists” (Anthony, I do not include you in those quotation marks) were practicing real science. Now, the public of those same countries are finding out en masse that these climate “scientists” have been “fooling around” with something political and not science at all.

    What more can I say, other than, “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”, or for that matter, a public which has been outright lied to over many years. And at a huge cost also.

  95. MattB (04:05:05) :

    “But Bulldust you have to admit howard made the bed the Libs are now lying in… he led his troops and ardent followers to the last election backing an ETS.”

    After 12 years of being harangued by the MSM and Greens as to why he didn’t
    have one.
    The good thing about Howard is that he used to make promises and not carry them out.
    I’m sure the ETS would have been a “non-core” promise particularly after the CRU revelations. Howard was cunning enough and smart enough to have seen the “get out of jail free card” and take it. A call for “time out” while there was a full investigation of the state of climate science, which with any luck would take years with strategically released damaging revelations about the crooks running the scam at carefully timed intervals to keep up the public interest. Maybe the odd Senate grilling of BoM personnel complicit with the CRU crooks. Jail for them would be too much to hope for.

  96. “Lucy Skywalker (02:15:11) :
    I believe that all laws passed on the basis of fraudulent evidence can be nullified. Any comments?”

    You are correct. They are either null or “unenforceable.”

    As treaties signed (at least per the USA Constitution) have the force of law, it is up to the Opposition to stand shoulder to shoulder and cry foul about the fraud…and then, at the same time, FIGHT.

    This all has the scent…of a major worldwide revolution in the making.

    But a necessary one, IF our species is going to evolve, and stop destroying ourselves with our own stupidity.

    Down with the ICAGW! (International Church of the AGW).

    Chris
    Norfolk, VA, USA

  97. rbateman: “If the goverments of the UK, USA and Australia pass the climage change laws they now do so at great risk of inciting revolt within their citizenry.
    Are they that stupid?”

    I hear ya on the reaction of revolt, Rob, and yes, [I’m afraid we have been giving them WAY too much credit]…they ARE that stupid….and worse.

    Chris
    Norfolk, VA, USA

  98. rbateman: “At this point, there has to be serious talk within govenment leadership circles of going down a road that has “coup” written all over it. And that has to put them on pins & needles.”

    And they should be shakin in their boots no doubt….

    ….Except for narcissists like Kevin Rudd…and James Hansen (sorry…he is the man behind the curtains in the USA).

    They, in their NPD insanity, think they are invincible.

    Because no one has scored a coup d’etat against these bozos….YET.

    Chris
    Norfolk, VA, USA

  99. LarryOldtimer (20:42:02) :

    “Once a woman actually finds out that her husband has been “fooling around” with a sweet young thang . . . that is when the fireworks begin. The public of a great many western culture countries had faith that the climate “scientists” (Anthony, I do not include you in those quotation marks) were practicing real science. Now, the public of those same countries are finding out en masse that these climate “scientists” have been “fooling around” with something political and not science at all.

    “What more can I say, other than, “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”, or for that matter, a public which has been outright lied to over many years. And at a huge cost also.”

    My fingers are crossed! (I hope someone — perhaps in the field of opposition research — collects fatuous video and audio snippets of warmist politicians endorsing CAWG to display on TV during their future election campaigns.)

  100. Some strange smoke screens with the media, as they have really been trying to push it is Joe Hockey who wants to challenge Turnbull, when we all know it is and should only be Tony Abbott (Rhodes Scholar, next in line to leader LIBERAL anyway).
    LIBERAL rift is over Goldman Sachs Turnbull and his complete defiant fascist stance on supporting Kevin Tyrant Rudd on Copenhagen.
    All this in complete defiance of the fact that NO ONE believes in the Global Warming Scam, and the Hacking of the UK East Anglia University Email data proving the fraud and conspiracy to fudge the science at the highest level, and the tactics taken. Though problem still is this could just all be SMOKE SCREENS to bring the ETS to more front an issue exposing that even Liberals endorse it, as it is no secret that LIBERAL wanted to bring in their version of the ETS under Costello & Howard (yes, Goldman Sachs, IMF, etc all have their fingers in Aussie politicians pockets for some time).
    Alan Watt says ‘they’ have real issue with the tough ‘no bullshit’ psyche of the Aussie people, here we have an issue, so ‘they’ must do everything in their power to keep it out of the media, so no one knows or understands until we wake up in socialist hell, like New Zealand will on 1st January 2010 when they start getting taxed for breathing!

  101. Mike McMillan, “Rudd, and Turnbull, please? Conservative, liberal, pro/anti AGW, etc?”.
    Rudd, Labour leader & PM,
    Turnbull, Liberal (but perhaps not much longer).

    Neither are true believers in The (signicifcant human-made global climate change) Hypothesis (AKA AGW). Both are true believers in their own status, power and well-being (like most politicians).

    May I suggest that all of you who reject The Hypothesis comment on the UN’s COP15 threads, available from http://en.cop15.dk/news. Make your feelings known – but expect to be removed after a while. The best time to post is early weekend as it will probably be replaced on the Monday by

    “Moderator Date Time – Deleted due to terms of use violation”. I just keep re-posting mine.

    We’re winning.

    Best regards, Pete Ridley, hum,an-made global climate change agnos(scep)tic

  102. Just responding to criticism (good/bad) in regards to my youtube clip. It was largely conceptual but I was especially careful not to over-state or misrepresent facts and to put it into simple language. The clip was done in a hurry using a program that is very inefficient and limited – Windows Movie Maker…

    In fact you may think I am BSing but I drive a forklift for a living, this means it was personal. I will struggle to afford a house.

    This does not mean I am dumb; I take an interest in politics amongst other things. Housing affordability is a massive issue in Australia. This is not about the ‘poor becoming poorer’, it is a battle over the middle man, the one who owns his own small business or is trying to buy a house. If you think an average young person can now afford a house on one income you are living on the same planet Malcolm Turnball found himself on over the past week.

    This clip is designed for a younger demographic and is conceptual as well as factual. It is nothing special but it was created with conviction – as we saw this issue was a battle of conviction.

    The secular media became obscelete over the weekend, as they tried to pressure the Australian Liberal party by arguing a pro-ETS stance. I really believe that it was conviction that made me, a young male, do something (a youtube clip)… This was a 100% genuine grass-roots campaign!

  103. There are many of us in Australia who have been trying for several years, on just the handful of blogs that will touch it, to publicise the challenges to the ‘Hockey Team by Climate Audit, WUWT, and Roger Pielke Sr etc—because apart from the few principled blogs, and radio hosts, there has been a complete shutdown of information and debate on this issue in our MSM here.

    Instead, up until now, the Labor government, aided by the MSM, has fed to Australians a steady diet of the IPCC consensus Hockey Stick alarmist version of this issue—exclusively—and with bogus wildly alarmist new pronouncements regularly thrown in.

    This cabal has intimidated the Opposition politicians to the extent that , for a politician with aspirations of higher office—– to admit or even come close to admitting he has questions about the official consensus view and science on this, is akin to political suicide.

    They are regularly ridiculed by government [ in parliament]and tacitly dared by MSM journalists to show a shred of scepticism at their peril.

    Consequently, polls show that a majority [ but now decreasing thankfully ] of Australians have been indoctrinated to believe the alarmist consensus version, and want an ETS as soon as possible , but haven’t a clue what it entails.

    This is the situation that Liberal [ Liberal here is similar to Republicans there and Conservatives in the UK] party supporters have finally had enough of, and we are calling on our representatives , by email and phone calls and blogs, to reject the ETS and work to inform themselves and subsequently to inform all Australians , of the real status of this science—all the developments—the challenges and the fraud allegations as yet unresolved— the content of the hacked emails, and the views of the scientists on the sceptic side.

    The MSM here, to its eternal shame, has almost completely ignored the hacked emails, but Andrew Bolt published the sites and so we’re all into them, while the MSM holds its nose and pretends they’re non-existent.

    This revolt was already under way when the emails emerged, but the Liberal politicians hadn’t yet moved, although their Coalition partners, [ the Nationals] had signalled that they would reject the legislation.

    There are many of us who will simply not vote for the present leader, as he insists the ETS be passed with Australians knowing almost zero about it—and he swallows the IPCC line without question, no matter what developments occur, and what mistakes are revealed. His mind is closed on this issue.

    Our Liberal politicians , especially the more conservative ones, are now very forthrightly standing up for democracy, often sacrificing their high office, and we’re hoping that the leader will be replaced on Tuesday [ our time] , and the scrutiny will begin, followed by real information and debate.

  104. @antzemail1 (04:41:27)…re your Youtube clip:

    Give ‘em hell, mate!

    I plan to circulate it with everyone I know in the USA.

    Very simple and VERY effective with the blank screen, the words, and the music.

    What you are saying really has global implications, because no matter what sovereignty in which we reside, there is a common enemy:

    It is this “science”-turned-religion anomaly called the Church of the AGW that is trying to steer world policy and world economics and that will ultimately try to break the backs and control working bright lads like yourself.

    They may try, but they will NOT succeed….as there are too many of us.

    Just like they have fraudulently doctored the data and used the climate models to OVERESTIMATE the alarm…

    …they WILL have grossly UNDERESTIMATED the backlash…a backlash of smart, reasonable, and feisty blokes like you are saying: Hell NO!

    It is almost comical how much they have underestimated this.

    And while these not-so-bright figures continue to smugly galavant around the world yelling “chicken little”…

    …and their policywankers (er um “policymakers”) are flitting about in their wake and in their CO2-producing private jets trying to sign draconian treaties and laws with their milk-toast, limp, smooth hands…

    All the bird dogs around the world (young and old, male and female) are perking up…

    …ears lifted…eyes squinted…ALL completely still with alertness…

    …watching these dumb, lumbering 800-pound-gorilla-AGW-machines smash through the forest…

    …until it is time to move in for the…

    ————-

    Hey BOZOS!! Over here!!

    Yeah…you know who you are.

    You may have tried to scare the World into submission, thanks to some “garbage in-garbage out” climate models and below-the-belt “science”…into believing that it is coming to an end.

    But your biggest mistake was:

    You failed to model….us!

    Chris
    Norfolk, VA, USA

  105. Truth, there appears to be a significant shifting in public opinion on The (significant human-made global climate change) Hypothesis. The Galaxy poll on 27th – http://resources.news.com.au/files/2009/11/28/1225804/945513-galaxy-poll.pdf
    shows interesting results. A massive 80% of people want more information about the ETS, with 60% of people wanting it deferred until after Copenhagen. UNQUOTE.

    I’m surprised it hasn’t been mentioned here

    Best regards, Pete R

  106. One last thing, this dumb thing that Howard had an ETS so Malcolm has to as well, or Howard did so it’s ok for Malcolm, is a tu quoque argument isn’t it?

  107. news today on the Commonwealth leader meeting .
    Commonwealth leaders welcome proposed fund to address climate change.
    Port of Spain, Nov 29, GNA – President John Evans Atta Mills together with other leaders of countries of the Commonwealth, have hailed the initiative to establish a $10 billion Copenhagen Launch Fund next year, to provide immediate funding for adaptation to climate change.
    The Heads of Government called for immediate action, by using all available avenues to avoid dangerous climate change and its attendant catastrophic effects.

  108. Don’t you just love political Spin… Julie Bishop, debuty leader of the opposition:

    ”Today our colleagues showed a great sense of unity … they have drawn a line and we will now move forward under our new leader Tony Abbott.”

    Vote outcome – 42 to 41!!!! 1 measly vote… split the party, cross the floor, pass the ETS. Abbott was going to, so none of Turnbull’s supporters should have any moral dilemma there.

    When you are cheering the election of an arch-conservative close ally of the Catholic Church, well it is a strange day for science. Next creationism will be on the curriculum.

  109. “FWIW the Greens are against the Bill in its present form. They also can see that the ETS is just another crippling Tax and will have no effect on reducing alleged Green House gas emissions. However, they are likely to vote with the bill on Monday. If the bill makes it through Monday without a vote they will probably side with the new conservative leader and strike it down hoping to opt for stronger legislation later.”
    All true, except The Greens approach it from the other side. That is, the proposed ETS or CPRS (Carbon Production Reduction Scheme) doesn’t go nearly far enough! They believe that a Prius is a filthy, carbon belching abomination, all roads should be given over to bicycles and trams. Anything that needs a truck to deliver it should be banned, along with the person who bought it.
    Interestingly, none of the above stops their Parliamentary Leader, Senator Bob Brown, from jetting about the place selling his hair shirts.

  110. My goodness that is a bit rich – how long have the libs been in power compared to labour? The frightneing thing is that by oposing the ETS ( rightly or wrongly) you will include all the other right wing ideas as well. The liverals will oppose the ETS and then bring in the other right wing ideas to lim it your rights at work, at home and abroad. The figures in the you tube video are not only sensationalist they are wrong, and have no basis in truth. Who caused most of the rise. I have three letters for you GST

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