by Mike Hulme
This is the third in a series of 12 articles challenging climate change orthodoxy commissioned by Professor Gwythian Prins. We will be publishing the articles at a rate of one a week over the next 12 weeks (read the first article here and the second article here). The hope is that they can be collected into a book for Sixth Formers and university students.
In October 2023, the new Vice-Chancellor of the University of Cambridge, the American psychology professor Deborah Prentice, delivered her first Annual Address to Senate House. Her address highlighted the imperative for university students to learn to “disagree well” about difficult subjects and for universities to facilitate this learning. Prentice announced her intention to moderate a series of open ‘dialogues’ at Cambridge, in which experts challenge each other on pressing issues of the day.
Prentice’s initiative was no doubt prompted by the lively public debate in the UK around free speech, cancel culture and academic freedom. It is a pressing issue within university life at the present time. In some instances, students and academics are being bullied into tacitly accepting viewpoint orthodoxies, fearful for their reputations and of being castigated for expressing contrarian views. A slew of books have recently appeared challenging the chilling climate of self-righteous orthodoxy that has emerged in recent years, among them Charlan Nemeth’s In Defense of Troublemakers: The Power of Dissent in Life and Business; Andrew Doyle’s The New Puritans: How the Religion of Social Justice Captured the Western World; and Umut Ozkirimli’s Cancelled: The Left Way Back from Woke.
I have been arguing that we need to ‘disagree well’ for longer than the Vice-Chancellor of Cambridge. In 2009, I published my first climate book, Why We Disagree About Climate Change, which argued that unless we isolate and clarify the specific reasons why our attitudes and responses to climate change differ so markedly, we cannot truly claim to be taking the issue seriously. In the book’s dedication, I noted that disagreement is always – or at least should always be – a form of learning. Without hearing from those with whom we disagree, and without engaging them in debate and argument, we exist merely inside a partisan echo chamber rather than as part of a functioning democracy.
I believe this to be truer still of the politics of climate change than it was 16 years ago. There is no single correct way of interpreting and dealing with the risks and challenges of climate. Those who claim otherwise, and seek to suppress public and political debate because in their view stopping climate change matters more than respecting democracy, are dangerous ideologues with tunnel vision. This is the thrust of my more recent book, Climate Change Isn’t Everything: Liberating Climate Politics from Alarmism.
On Disagreement and Democracy
Disagreeing with others – whether on matters great or small, public or private – is part of the essence of what it is to be human. We each see the world differently, weigh evidence differently and hold different attitudes to risk, danger, justice and injustice. Giving space for such disagreements to be voiced and heard – and tolerating the dissenters – is a foundational principle of democracy. Provoked by US Vice-President J D Vance’s recent public criticism of Europe’s fragile commitment to free speech, the Economist conceded that Europe really does have a problem and asked: “What, practically, should Europeans do? They should start by returning to the old liberal ideas that noisy disagreement is better than enforced silence and that people should tolerate one another’s views.” A free and open society needs heterodox thinkers to be heard without fear of censorship or marginalisation. As the late Jerome Kagan, professor of developmental psychology at Harvard, noted:
Every democracy needs an opposition party to prevent the one temporarily in power from becoming despotic. And every society needs a cohort of intellectuals to check the dominance of a single perspective when its ideological hand becomes too heavy.
Not just in politics, but in science too. The lifeblood of science is to question, to doubt and to challenge. Criticism fulfils a necessary and positive function in science, but unlike a literary critic a scientific critic has no independent status. As Jacob Bronowski once noted, whereas literary critics carry status in their own right, to be a scientific critic is to be a scientist. Scientific dissidents may not be popular with those who think they know the truth, but they are necessary if science is to command respect from the wider public. It is not that every heterodox thinker is correct; it is rather that, just as with a free and open society, science needs heterodox thinkers. Their arguments should be heard without suppression; groupthink, censorship and a thought police have no place in science.
Reducing Arguments to Labels
The easiest way to avoid hard thinking on any complex problem is to silence those who disagree with you. There are different ways this might be done, but all three adopt an ad hominem approach to winning an argument. You might call into question the integrity or sincerity of your critic; you might damn their views by associating them with discredited fellow-travellers; or you might dismiss their views as unworthy of consideration by attaching derogatory labels to their position.
Of these, the last is the most subtle, and this divide-and-rule tactic has been widely deployed in the climate change debate. Using a pejorative label such as ‘climate change denier’ to characterise the views of those with whom you disagree serves to isolate, exclude and dismiss their claims as unworthy of discussion. Once a pejorative label is attached to them, arguments can be waved away without further engagement. An emphasis on labels accentuates division and diverts attention from getting to the root of the disagreement – which is essential for public debate and understanding of a complex issue.
But this practice of ‘marking the card’ of those deemed to ‘deny’ climate science proved too narrowly drawn for those pursuing this tactic. So it is now possible to reach for an array of alliterative labels to call out those who, it is claimed, seek to undermine or slow efforts to address the risks of climate change. One can choose from the following lexicon of additional ‘d-words’: climate ‘delayers’, ‘dissemblers’, ‘deceivers’, ‘downplayers’, ‘dividers’, ‘deflectors’, ‘doomers’ and ‘distractors’.
This strategy has been taken to its next logical step on the HotAir website, commissioned and operated by Tortoise Media, the new owners of the Observer. HotAir ingests a large digital corpus of so-called ‘contrarian’ claims about climate change which have been pre-classified using a deep-learning AI model. This model imposes a fivefold scheme with further sub-categories: ‘global warming is not happening’, ‘human greenhouse gases are not causing global warming’, ‘climate impacts are not bad’, ‘climate solutions won’t work’ and ‘the climate movement/science is unreliable’. HotAir then classifies these textual fragments – speech acts emanating from individuals, organisations or websites – and ‘marks’ them as propagating either climate denial, climate delay or political coercion.
But this approach seriously misleads audiences by conflating very different reasons for disagreement over climate change. Criticising certain aspects of climate science is a quite different matter from criticising certain policies or climate solutions – a distinction those advocating the new lexicon of ‘d-words’ refuse to acknowledge. Claims that ‘mountain glaciers aren’t retreating’ or that ‘atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration is not rising’ are, for example, entirely different from claims that ‘green jobs don’t work’, ‘nuclear energy is good’ or ‘the media is alarmist’.
These latter claims cannot be determined to be scientifically correct or incorrect – either because the evidence is conflicting, the standards by which we judge them are values-based, or because they are partially true and partially false. Some media reporting of climate change is undoubtedly alarmist; nuclear energy is for many part of a desirable and necessary energy mix; and whether green jobs ‘work’ depends on what that criterion means, for whom and over what time period. Creating a catch-all definition of ‘climate delay’ blurs the distinction between very different types of argument and risks proscribing legitimate public debate about climate policies.
Legitimate Epistemic Uncertainty
The examples above reveal the problems of policing what can or cannot be contested in respect of climate policies. But the same divide-and-rule tactic is often applied to what is or is not known scientifically about the changing climate. In science, the boundaries between “truth” and “untruth” are not easily drawn. The distinctions between Johann Wolfgang von Goethe’s “conditioned certainty”, Bertrand Russell’s “moderate scepticism” and Robert Merton’s “organised scepticism” are often fuzzy. Where those boundaries lie should certainly not be determined by those external to the actual practices of science and scientific assessment; established scientific practice, processes and norms are their own policing mechanisms.
It is quite legitimate, for example, to read carefully the latest IPCC reports and identify what is known in climate science to varying levels of confidence. The Met Office’s ‘climate change questions’ website does a reasonable job of this. What is not legitimate is to extrapolate from a high-level claim such as ‘97% of scientists believe that human activities are changing the climate’ and attach a similar level of consensus to every claim made about human influence on climate. Still less should scientists succumb to the lure of the noble lie. There are many facets of a changing global climate where science does not speak with one voice, where we still ‘see through a glass darkly’. Scientists must be free to say so without the chilling effect of being labelled a climate ‘doubter’, ‘delayer’ or ‘distractor’. Recent examples from the peer-reviewed literature where scientific opinion remains widely divergent include: the impact of climate change on the south Asian monsoon; the effectiveness and risks of solar geoengineering technologies; the necessity of carbon capture; the future behaviour of hurricanes; and the scientific credibility of extreme weather attribution studies.
Conclusion
Climate change is real and serious, but it is not everything. Aiming to deliver largely arbitrary global temperature targets, or pursuing Net Zero emissions by a given date, foregrounds crude aggregated metrics that reduce the dimensionality of the climate change problem. They narrow the political field of vision and can too easily lead to policy missteps. Sloganeering around such metrics must not foreclose political debate over the effectiveness and desirability of specific policies which, while they may help reduce climate risks, may simultaneously undermine or foreclose other legitimate policy goals.
Writing in a different time and a different context, the late liberal-internationalist newspaper editor David Astor offered a trenchant defence of free speech that is worth rehearsing, whatever one’s position in the climate debate. Among his private papers was one titled ‘Memo on the Soul of a Paper’, which summarised the beliefs that permeated his long editorship of the Observer between 1948 and 1975. On Astor’s watch, the paper’s personality was shaped by people drawn together more by being ‘anti-fascist’ – that is, anti-Hitler – than by anything else. His beliefs are lucidly set out in the following passage, extracted from the Memo:
Treating opponents respectfully; trying to understand people and to explain them to each other; valuing differences; not exaggerating your own case; avoiding over-dramatisation or enjoyment of the sensational; practising moral courage, particularly daring to stand up to ridicule, and showing respect for that [courage] in others; discouraging herd thinking, particularly among those ‘on our side’; challenging taboos and legends, particularly those ‘our sort’ of reader usually accepts; deliberately cultivating doubt and scepticism, but not cynicism; practising self-criticism – as liberals, as internationalists, as journalists – as well as dishing it out to everyone else.
The new inheritors of Astor’s legacy at the Observer – Tortoise Media, with their HotAir website – would do well to read his Memo in full and apply it wholeheartedly to their reporting of climate change.
Mike Hulme is Professor of Human Geography in the Department of Geography, University of Cambridge, and a Fellow of Pembroke College, Cambridge. He was formerly Professor of Climate and Culture at King’s College London (2013–2017) and of Climate Change in the School of Environmental Sciences at the University of East Anglia.
Can’t. The problem is a government which rewards parasites and cronies, does not make losers pay winners’ expenses, and does not allow the citizenry to hold government accountable.
You nailed it 👍
concur. Even worse when the government is (are?) the parasites and cronies…
Actually they already believe there are two sides to the argument, unfortunately they have also been led to believe that the two sides to the are argument are Life on their preferred side or Death on the opposing side.
That’s a tendency for those on the left. They have been indoctrinated into believing that their solutions are perfect and that anyone who disagrees with them is evil and must be destroyed.
This is one way of putting it. But the real problem is an educational system that creates a populace that is willing to constantly reelect that type of government.
Mao and Lenin taught them well.
That educational system is a government educational system. Government came first and is the real problem. The educational system is just another symptom.
Independent news on Youtube isn’t governed – thus far – by Ofcom.
One breakfast programme – The Mike Graham Show – had Paul Burgess on; and Jim Dale sneaked in.
It was a real hoot. Dale claimed there are 5 countries that have gone net zero, but didn’t know which ones.
He relied on AI as an authority – consensus etc etc etc
Claimed Nasa will come up with an emissions neutral rocket fuel.
Excellent stuff, most amusing. If you need cheering up…
The onscreen clock – 08:38:16
YT 1:41:00
Hydrogen and oxygen are emissions neutral as they exit the rocket. Maybe he’s on to something!
You can peroxide your hair – if you want to…
Ignoring how the hydrogen is made and oxygen separated from air, the GHG water product is not even a drop in a swimming pool compared to its natural abundance.
H2O is a “greenhouse” gas.
It depends on the exact definition of emissions neutral.
“Every democracy needs an opposition party to prevent the one temporarily in power from becoming despotic.”
Right on!
Do please tell Trump that …. and US voters.
Unless of course that is what you want to happen !
You disapprove of the voters’ choice.
Was that the case when Joseph Biden was elected? Did you not feel the need to castigate voters on that occasion?
Democracy is the will of the majority, not the minority.
Being left means never having to say you’re wrong.
About anything . . .
It also means any vote that doesn’t go ‘their way’ is somehow void. The Brexit referendum, for example.
Not void, stolen. They just can’t comprehend that there is anybody out there who disagrees with them. c.f. AB’s idiotic comment.
After Brexit, I read quite a few surveys results where lots of 18 – 30 age entitled “progressive” voters were sorely disappointed in the outcome, but didn’t turn up to cast a vote themselves.
So, not only running out of “other peoples’ money”, also ran out of “other peoples’ votes”.
If it’s not right, it is what’s left.
Thankfully the US is a democratic republic, so a “tyranny of the majority” does not rule in and of itself.
Of course, the Democrats are working hard to upend this so the US can devolve into exactly that. If they succeed, the country will descend into the toilet quickly, just as individual states ruled by their large, leftist urban areas have (see California, Oregon, Washington, Illinois, Virginia, New York…).
tyranny of the majority
As a rule of thumb, unjust or oppressive government – ie a tyranny – does not usually subject itself to a democratic vote.
What tyranny puts itself up for election after a mere 5 years? Democracy is not a tyranny, demands by a minority on the majority are.
Step one: Eliminate the Electoral College and use popular vote only to select a President.
We already have all or nothing States. Going to popular vote institutionalizes that meaning 45+% of the voters are disenfranchised and large population centers control the government.
They are trying: Check out the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NPVIC). This compact aims to ensure that the presidential candidate who receives the most votes nationwide is elected president.
I know.
This in spite of the fact that “Interstate Compacts” are specifically prohibited in the Constitution!
“You disapprove of the voters’ choice.”
My view is irrelevant – It seems the polls show that the voters regret their choice
Yep.
My view is irrelevant
In a democracy it is the reverse. What on Earth are they ‘teaching’ you?
Polls.
LMAO
Especially in New York !!
And there have been polls , shown on CNN no less, that show that Trump base is 100% behind him, while the Democrats are disappearing around the “S” bend.
You are correct! You are irrelevant.
77 million voters voted for Trump. In case the point is lost on you, they WERE the opposition.
Severe TDS…Trump can’t turn despotic. He is in his Last Term. A brilliant design if you ask me to limit terms to 4 years and 2 terms max. Should be instituted for Congress as well. Governors too… 2-4 year terms maximum.
With term limits, the bureaucracy rules. The worst of all possible worlds.
The bureaucracy already runs the government. The only solution to that is to reduce the size of government, and that isn’t going to happen so long as politicians view politics as a life long career.
The only solution to that is to reduce the size of government,
Not term limits.
Every executive department except War, State and Interior should be shuttered. No bureaucratic regulations.
“…. He is in his Last Term. “
We shall see. I am sure he will try to negate that.
For someone who thinks he’s so smart you sure say some stupid sh…, er, stuff.
On November 8th, 2028, readers here at WUWT will look for your Mea culpa.
Not holding my breath, but I get your point.
I’ll hold my breath (breathhhhh)
But Trump is certainly going to wind-up the far left with the suggestion.
Its really funny to watch them losing their marbles… again.
Here’s another good wind-up 🙂
A little thing called the US Constitution 22nd amendment prevents that and He is very aware. It would take a Continental Congress meeting to reassess the Constitution and eliminate the 22nd amendment.
Socialists are absolutely convinced that anyone they disagree with must be evil.
Especially when they have no data to support their beliefs.
You really do drink the Koolaid. Are you Simon?
As usual, the left defines not doing what they demand as being despotic, meanwhile the actual tyrannical nature of the left is always ignored.
It was Obamas and Biden who weaponized the FBI and DOJ to go after their opponents.
Remember when the FBI declared that parents who disagred with school boards to be one of our biggest terrorist threats, or when Biden tried to create a ministry of Truth?
You forgot Christians, especially Catholics being designated as domestic terrorists.
Thank you for the reminded. I had forgotten the Ministry of Truty.
The US voters voted..
Trump has FREED THEM from the degeneracy and despotic totalitarianism of the far-left.
Men are now men, and females are now females.
Illegal immigrants are being removed.
So many GOOD THINGS happening.
Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat uni-party is at the head of the line. DJT will just have to wait his turn, which comes after Biden, Clinton, Obama, etc.
By the way, USA is not a democracy. Prior to JFK, every President correctly identified the country as the Republic. JFK did not like the coupling of Republic to the republican party so he started using democracy.
Not a democracy. Do you vote for anything your Town Council or mayor enact? County? State? When was the last time you voted on a bill on the floor of Congress. If you are not directly voting on all of these things, then you prove this is a representative form of governance, not a democracy.
Thank you
How can we persuade alarmists that the jig is up?
Casualties of the withdrawal of RCP8.5 #1094
“Implausible” UK Health Security Agency Report Promoting Endemic Dengue Fever in London Must Be Withdrawn
In December 2023, the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) captured mainstream headlines with claims that massive increases in temperatures could lead to tropical mosquito-borne diseases sweeping the nation, endemic dengue fever in London by 2060, and a 12-fold increase in heat mortality within 50 years. All nonsense, of course – and the UKHSA report relied heavily on the notorious 2018 Met Office Climate Projections report (UKCP18). This Net Zero-promoting exercise ran only one set of assumptions through its supercomputer model and highlighted the findings in bold type. Those assumptions, always far-fetched, have now been declared “implausible” by the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). – DS
My money is on the establishment ignoring that completely…
Maybe crocodiles and hippos will return and borders might get some protection.
Ask Trump how his debate with Iranian clerics has been going?
It is a pointless task to argue with religious zealots. They will be corrected by reality as they die off. All will take their beliefs to the grave.
Trump makes deals
islam dominates and will never make a deal – it will use copious amounts of taqiyya and deceit to create the illusion of an agreement.
Trump started it, and now like it or not he has to finish the job. They’ve been a pain in the butt for over 1400 years and they are not going to change.
Iran started it 47 years ago and we have been at war since then.
The sooner they confab with Jimmy Carter the better.
Your comment proofs that you are the zealot.
And the level of zealotry and lack of reflection is absolutely terrifying.
It was Trump who, while pretending to negotiate, has attacked Iran , not once but twice.
He assassinated their leaders.
This is so lowlife as a thing could be.
When Iran went to the 2nd negotiations in Oman, they agreed to pretty much everything Trump asked for.
The Omani foreign minister and mediator said – Iran gave Trump a golden bowl.
What did Trump? – he started the war in return.
How the hell will you debate with such a dishonorable POS.
When Iran went to the 3rd debate, they sent more than 5 dozen experts, covering all domains from nuclear to economics.
Trump sent? 2 of his real estate criminals, Wittkoff and Kushner.
Than, when Iran rejected talks, Trump simply made shit up that he is negotiating with them, right after he claimed that he blew up all Iranian leadership.
Lies after, lies.
Nonsense after Nonsense.
Yet they have your full support – because you are a worse zealot than those you criticize.
“Lies after, lies.
Nonsense after Nonsense.”
Mirror , mirror on the wall ….
Remind us of the number of Americans killed at the hands of the Iranian regime. It runs into thousands. Iran has been waging war on the West since 1979.
Have you forgotten the crowds in Tehran chanting “Death to America”?
And the Islamic crowds in America….. chanting “Death to America”
Lies 😉
Like most leftists, your ability to ignore any history that doesn’t fit what the party wants you to believe.
Iran has been at war with the world since the Islamic revolution almost 50 years ago.
Trump is going the diplomatic route that American leftists have been screeching he has to. And now they are screeching because he is going the diplomatic route they have been screeching he HAS to follow. Starting to see a pattern yet?
Here’s where this goes off the rails.
“Climate change is real” is meaningless pablum. And deliberately deceptive, because of the propaganda-induced association of “climate change” with the notion it is “human induced,” for which there is no empirical evidence.
“Climate change is serious” is nonsense. No demonstrable harm has occurred due to “climate change” in its current state, irrespective of its origin. The reverse is true – the warming of the climate has been 100% beneficial. A WARMER CLIMATE IS BETTER.
In short, THERE IS NO “climate change problem.” The “problem” is imaginary, and was created to push a political agenda.
Perspective and context are desperately needed. THE EARTH IS IN AN INTERGLACIAL PERIOD DURING AN ICE AGE. “Warming” during an ice age IS GOOD NEWS. When the climate starts COOLING, THAT is when you should worry.
“When the climate starts COOLING, THAT is when you should worry.”
Exactly. When sea levels start dropping, ice accretion at the poles accelerates, and early frosts start to threaten the harvests – then “climate change” would indeed be a serious problem.
________________________________________________________________
Follow that link and you get this:
“The changing climate poses serious dangers to human and non-human life alike”
What serious dangers are those? Warmer weather? Longer growing seasons? More arable land? More precipitation? CO₂ caused Greening of the Earth?
It’s all about the increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide and nothing else. This guy spins a good story about the need to have an opposition blah . . . blah . . . blah . . . and then buys into a statement that asserts that warming from CO₂ is a danger to all life on the planet. Jesus said, “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s and unto God that which in God’s.” In one statement he gives it all to Caesar and pisses on God.
What serious dangers are those?
People having fun and enjoying themselves.
Ooohhh, what about all those emissions from barbecues, red meat being consumed, sunscreen lotion in the oceans & lakes, and other such environmental desecration?
I shall write to The Times.
I think Mike Hulme needs to say those things so that he will not be dismissed entirely by most other climate scientists, environmentalists, politicians and the media.
What has happened to MIT?
Comrade Sisters: Lessons from Radical African American and Latina Feminist Struggles, 1960s-1970s $420.00
What You Will Learn
By the end of this micro-course, students will be able to:
MIT
We have the passenger compliment for the ‘B’ Ark….
Flat-out socialist indoctrination. “Educating” the next generation of BLM and Antifa radicals.
Should say, “What You Will Lear…” in solidarity with their illegal and corrupt brothers and sisters in Minneapolis.
I think it was Jordan Peterson who pointed out that ~80% of Feminist publications never garner a single citation.
“Jordan Peterson has been facing significant health challenges, including a diagnosis of chronic inflammatory response syndrome (CIRS) . . .”
I can only wish him well. He’s been an enormous force for good.
This is the Gramscian Long March through the Institutions in action.
When 90% of the people who determine your future and economic wellbeing tenaciously hold on to views that are opposite yours there will be no discussion. The West has reached that point. We have an educational system and a media that stifles dissent. As an example, the age of consent here in the US is between 14 and 16. It is rightfully felt that children younger than that cannot make valid sexual decisions. Yet if one opposes “Gender Affirming” procedures on the young you are labeled homophobic by the establishment. If you favor the enforcement of some rational laws it is because you are a raciest. The last thing that the establishment wants is open discussion.
homophobictransphobic, but otherwise I get your point.There’s a lot of that on our side as well, for an example, look at the sky dragons.
Yea, and make sure to look at the anti-Sky Dragons…
“our side” Whatever do you mean? Unless a person has been reading posts on WUWT prior to about 15 years, the Sky Dragon reference (Principia Scientific International) will be meaningless.
I have been canceled for aligning w sky dragons. PSI let me publish my experiments unmolested.
Because of the significant (60% per TFK_bams09) non-radiative, i.e. kinetic, heat transfer processes of the contiguous participating atmospheric molecules the surface cannot upwell “extra” energy as a near Black Body.
As demonstrated by experiment, the gold standard of classical science.
For the experimental write up see:
https://principia-scientific.org/debunking-the-greenhouse-gas-theory-with-a-boiling-water-pot/
Search: Bruges group “boiling water pot” Schroeder
All of this presumes that the leftists are rational. You can have civil debates and arguments with rational people. The leftists aren’t rational, and in so many words have indicated that the point of the climate scare is to upend the capitalist economy in the West.
“The leftists have indicated that the point of the climate scare is to upend
the capitalist economy in the West.”
_______________________________________________________________________________
No shortage of quotes to demonstrate that point:
“The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.” George Soros
“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony… climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.” – Christine Stewart, former Canadian Minister of the Environment
“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.” – Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation
“Frankly, we may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be for industrial civilization to collapse.” – Maurice Strong
“We’ve got to go straight to the heart of capitalism and overthrow it. – George Monbiot
“[W]e are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, change the economic development model that has been reigning since the industrial revolution.” – Christiana Figueres,
These guys are bunch of sour grapers who can stand people getting rich.
>> Climate change is real and serious
Do you mean the anthropogenic part of global warming?
Why should skepticals take the alarmist serious?
There is little scientific base to their claims as most statements lack a rigorous uncertainty assessment.
For example we know without doubt that the low resolution of CMIP5 and older models led to artifacts and those are kept uncorrected in literature and still used to “proof” something.
There are countless examples of unscientific behavior.
You say there are two sides to this debate, but I only seem to see one side making wild claims and skeptics rightfully pointing out errors.
“Climate change is real and serious,” meaning emissions-driven climate change™ “is real and dangerous.”
Rather, climate change is presently indistinguishable from non-existent and paltry.
“real and serious” is right up there with the more recently birthed, “safe and effective.” An institutional double lie; meant only to cause panic, induce compliance, and, ultimately, to dissolve personal freedom.
Gonna be a hard sell since facts + math clearly support just one. Are we going to allow two sides to flat earth, chem-trail and moon landing hoax?
The GHE debate is not just about hocus pocus thermodynamic handwavium, but simple bookkeeping, i.e. 63 + 63 = 63.
TFK_bams09 and all of its clones don’t just violate LoT (160 in & 396 out LoT1 & 333 “back” from cold to warm wo work LoT 2) but basic GAAP.
The same 63 W/m^2 LWIR appears twice, once from the real solar balance: 160 – 80 – 17 = 1st 63 & again w a second from the calc’d/“measured”/imaginary BB 396 – 333 “back” = 2nd 63.
The second appears in the calcs, the first does not. What happened? Is its absence error or deceit??
Only one of these is needed to balance OLR at ToA so that means the other is free floating, unaccounted for, looking for a home and apparently dropped down someone’s boot top.
Only one of these balance loops belongs on the graphic, I suggest keeping the real one.
It’s not up to you (or anyone) to “allow” anything. A fundamental tenet of freedom is that people are free to think or believe (and discuss) anything, no matter how wacky or outlandish. If you don’t agree, either engage and make counterarguments or choose to ignore. But if you believe that it’s your duty to only “allow” approved opinions you’re starting down a very slippery slope.
I am unallowed quite widely even on WUWT for awhile.
Whom do I see about that?
Those who disagree with you have arguments, some good, many bad. Deal with those arguments. When you reach the point of declaring that those you disagree with aren’t worth debating then you have reached the point of academic totalitarianism.
One of the preeminent alarmists refused to engage anybody (me) who denied the GHE.
Like that?
I suggest using a globe for the model, not a flat piece of paper.
Other people’s models are using a globe & not a flat piece of paper.
1,368 discular from sun/4 = 342 globular sphere.
-5 w 0 counterarguments.
The ignorance of the “energy ILLITERATE” leaders is shocking, as they NEVER explain how the “energy” from wind turbines and solar panels can provide TRANSPORTATION FUELS:
· Jet fuel for military and commercial aircraft.
· Diesel fuel for trucks and construction equipment.
· Gasoline fuel for cars.
· Bunker fuel for merchant ships and cruise ships.
· Exotic fuels for the Space programs to explore outer space and conduct scientific research.
Energy “REALITY” is that wind turbines and solar panels ONLY generate electricity but CANNOT make any products or transportation fuels for life as we know it.
Add: Diesel fuel for heavy machinery used in agriculture, and feedstock for the chemical process industries
“Why doesn’t anyone trust the media?”
Harpers magazine
The lying, fact free, race baiting, science illiterate, fake news MSM and their pretentious talking heads were so humiliated by Trump’s democratic 2016 win they poisoned the 2020 electorate with fake climate crisis, fake scam-demic and fake racism deposing Trump in an anti-democratic media coup de tat.
Fool us once, shame on you.
Fool us twice, shame on us.
Democracy is mob rule by a majority of the clueless manipulated by the lying, fact free, science illiterate, race baiting, fake news MSM and pretentious talking heads.
Suppose a ballot includes shipping all blacks of African descent back to Africa & 51% of the electorate that shows up says “Yes.” then the government is authorized to make it so.
A ballot says anyone caught drunk driving will be dragged to the shoulder, shot in the head and left for scavengers & 51% of the electorate that shows up says “Yes.” (I would.) then the government is authorized to make it so.
A ballot says round up all Jews, seize their property and send them to camps in Utah & 51% of the electorate that shows up says “Yes.” the government is authorized to make it so. Oh, wait we already did that to Japanese-Americans.
If a ballot referendum says only police can have guns and 51% of the electorate showing up says “Yes.” the BATF is authorized to confiscate all privately owned guns.
That’s why the US is a constitutional republic of laws not mindless democratic bigots & tools.
Even the Greeks knew better. (See what Plato had to say.)
Thank you.
I like advocates. With advocates you can have a meaningful discussion. Both sides talk. Both sides listen. You are not forced to come to agreement. Both sides benefit from a better understanding of the nuances of the issue.
I hate activists. If you do not agree 100% with their agenda and if you do not recite their rhetoric verbatim, you are the enemy, with all sorts of objectionable labels applied to silence you.
That’s an interesting an relevant distinction. I do environmental consulting and when the conversation tends in that direction I always tell people I’m an environmental scientist, not an environmentalist (which is synonymous with activist).
Most of these “environmentalists” spend most of their time in the coffee house before hitting the streets for local protest.
I am a conservationist which I learned while achieving my Eagle Scout rank.
An environmentalist (activist) does not want humans to use any of the bounty gifted to us by this lovely planet.
Conservationist want us to use them wisely and take care of the planet as we do.
An environmental scientist is a noble person. What you learn, we conservationist use.
Dang, I never made it past Tenderfoot. But I did enjoy the camping trips.
Agree with your thoughts on conservation.
You can’t. It’s genetic mutation of the DRD4 Dopamine Receptor that makes them crazy.
I see them as obligate collectivists, psychologically unable to feel safe in a society organized around individual freedom.
Your DRD4 locus is a new idea for me. Perhaps the genetic locus for the trait. But I’d see it as typifying the parent species.
The Enlightenment strikes me as a speciation event, in the true Evolutionary Biology sense. The emergence of H. sapiens var. individuus, from the parent H.s v. collectivista. The split stemming from gene-culture co-evolution.
Our new reason-oriented culture changed the evolutionary landscape, which now favors the creative nexus, namely the individual.
At the very base, what’s occurring now is a mortal fight between two competing species for one ecology. The politics is just a surface wash on the deeper evolutionary reality.
“I see them as obligate collectivists, psychologically unable to feel safe in a society organized around individual freedom.”
100%! The security of the herd is more important to them than being a self actualized independent expression of creation. Empowering them to have self confidence in self identifying as an individual might be the only way to open up the closed loops of perception tribal conformity to ideologies that can’t survive critical examination created.
LOL. If the bogus Covid “crisis” had happened a few years earlier, I would blame it on forced vaccinations.
Excellent. We need the same approach regarding forest management in the U.S. The wild fire threat is growing rapidly due to the increasing fuel load, yet any effort to harvest and thin our forests is stymied by legal action. New evidence is being presented that conclusively demonstrates that for millenia the indigenous people, using fire, maintained fuel loads at a fraction of today’s levels.
Environmentalists has seriously impact our conservation of forests.
It was quite interesting until this: “Climate change is real and serious”.
What on earth does that mean?
We all picked up on that nonsensical sentence.
About 80% of the earth’s climate is water, ice and snow. I haven’t read any recent reports about climate change in vast Pacific or Atlantic oceans.
Did you see the email I sent you? You don’t have to like me to respond to Ned. It’s a fun opportunity for you.
It means the author did not want to declare full scale war.
A bit of appeasement.
Good grief! Don’t you know that many civilizations in the past have collapsed, primarily due to climate change?
Here’s a list you can get from the internet.
Famous Historical Collapses Driven by Climate Change
The Akkadian Empire (Mesopotamia): A abrupt, 300-year drought around 2200 BCE devastated agriculture in the Tigris and Euphrates valleys, causing widespread famine, city desertion, and ultimate imperial collapse.
The Late Bronze Age Societies (Eastern Mediterranean): Around 1200 BCE, a severe “megadrought” lasting decades, triggered a regional domino effect of crop failures, famine, and mass migrations, destroying major empires like the Hittites and Mycenaean Greece.
The Maya Civilization (Mesoamerica): A series of intense, multi-year megadroughts between 800 and 1000 CE crippled the reservoir-dependent water systems of Classical Maya city-states, leading to starvation, warfare, and abandonment of cities.
The Indus Valley Civilization (South Asia): Around 1800 BCE, the weakening of the Indian summer monsoon altered river flows, drying up crucial agricultural streams and forcing the population to abandon large urban centers like Harappa.
The Tiwanaku Empire (Andean South America): A catastrophic, prolonged drought starting around 1000 CE caused the water levels of Lake Titicaca to drop, drying out the empire’s advanced raised-field agricultural systems and dismantling its political structure.
The Norse Settlements in Greenland: Settled during the Medieval Warm Period, these communities collapsed in the 14th and 15th centuries as the “Little Ice Age” set in, shortening growing seasons and blocking vital trade routes with sea ice.
The Anasazi / Ancestral Puebloans (North America): The “Great Drought” of the late 13th century (roughly 1276–1299 CE) completely disrupted corn farming in the American Southwest, forcing the total abandonment of complex cliff dwellings like Mesa Verde.
The Khmer Empire (Angkor): In the 14th century, the region transitioned abruptly from the Medieval Warm Period to the Little Ice Age. This shifted the Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ) and made the East Asian summer monsoon highly erratic.
The “Double Whammy” of Volatility, rather than just a steady drought, resulted in Angkor being hit by alternating extremes. Decades of severe, crippling megadroughts were punctuated by sudden, high-magnitude monsoon years that brought catastrophic flooding.
The water system had grown so large and complex over centuries that it lost its flexibility. Once key choke points broke, the entire agricultural and water supply network collapsed, triggering widespread food shortages and demographic flight.
“Primarily due to climate change.”
Says who?
Proof?
Tons of archeological programs on wide range of subjects suggest many other reasons, war, disease, drought…..
Man caused????
Say the scientists who study the proxy records. Isn’t that obvious?
For example, it used to be assumed that the ancient Khmer civilization collapsed due to a military invasion by the neighbouring Thais, but it was still a puzzle why all the cities were abandoned and became lost in the forest until the French colonialists discovered the ruins during the 19th century.
Later analysis of sediments and tree rings in the area revealed that, around the same time as the transition from the MWP to the LIA in Europe, a series of prolonged droughts, followed by a series of severe flooding, caused a significant portion of the population to leave their cities, including those in charge.
Their neighbouring enemy, the Thais, took advantage of the situation and successfully invaded the civilization, resulting in the remaining population fleeing, and not returning. Without the effects of climate change, the Thais would not have invaded, therefore, an extreme change in weather patterns, during several decades, was the primary cause of the collapse of the Khmer civilization. Got it?
What did their CO2 have to do with it?
No water infrastructure to combat drought??
“What did their CO2 have to do with it?”
Far too small to quantify.
“No water infrastructure to combat drought??”
They definitely had water infrastructure to sustain their civilization during the normal periods of dry and wet weather, but that infrastructure wasn’t sufficient to deal with the ‘change in climate’ that occurred during the 14th and early 15th centuries C.E.
From an internet search:
“Angkor was a “hydraulic city” heavily reliant on a complex 1,000-square-kilometre network of canals, dams, and reservoirs. During the exceptional mega droughts, these empty channels accumulated massive amounts of loose sediment and suffered from a lack of maintenance. When the unusually wet monsoons arrived, the rushing water tore through the clogged infrastructure, eroding canals by several metres, destroying vital bridges, and completely tearing apart the water management system.”
The point I’m making is that ‘climate change’ has frequently been a huge problem in the past, and it is reasonable to expect that similar changes will occur in the future, in some regions.
Of course, I’m not arguing that reducing CO2 levels will prevent those natural changes in climate occurring.
It seems clear that the aggregate population of “climate alarmists” is a heterogeneous bunch, who arrive at some common ground among themselves through diverse motives and pathways. In most cases, other than the crass commercial, political, and academic incentives, these pathways are based on pre-existing attitudes, with irrational bases but high ego involvement. This is the armor of the True Believer, and accounts for their immunity against hearing information discrepant from their own position. So the psychologist Prentice’s hope for “disagreeing well” has little chance outside of possibly the ivory tower. Even then, after at best a civil “exchange of views,” no mind will be changed.
The literature on attitude structure and change offers insights here. The key to change is a reduction in ego-involvement, not a convincing scientific case. Facts can matter but only after subject person finds a reason to process them. Perhaps future installments will speak to this.
From article:”Climate change is real and serious,…”.
Nah. What time frame? How much? Caused by? This conclusion is really dumb.
“Every democracy needs an opposition party to prevent the one temporarily in power from becoming despotic” No. This idiotic statement embodies all that is wrong with democracies today and why they are failing to deliver their promise.
Every democracy is inherently already divided into two parties. These are the pro and anti the proposition. The makeup of these parties waxes and wanes as the propositions change. The majority carries the decision and that is accepted by the minority. That is the essence of democracy.
Enter political parties into the equation and the support or otherwise for the proposition becomes centred on the benefit to the party rather than the benefit to the whole. In this way political parties become the despotic holders of power. Often at any price.
The solution is already in the hands of the voters. They need only eschew parties and their candidates and instead vote for independent individuals of high calibre who will, in turn, vote with their intellect and conscience.
It is a simple truth that only a person who is free to vote their conscience can truly represent another.
The 2 sides of the “climate change” argument are simple: the Climate Liars who claim that we are “destroying the climate” or some such nonsense are wrong, while the Climate Realists who know that there is nothing “wrong” with our climate and in any case we are not hurting it so can’t do anything about it, are right.
Climate alarmists earn money from their alarmism.
You are in effect asking people to undertake voluntary unemployment.
Much easier to have them fired.