An Inconvenient Tree: Uncovered In Alps… Europe Much Warmer Than Today 6000 Years Ago

From the NoTricksZone

By P Gosselin

Growing climate skepticism in Europe… An inconvenient tree found in the Alps shows climate was warmer 6000 years ago. 

A recent video from the German language channel Report24news features Dr. Johannes Steiner, who discusses the discovery of ancient biological material (a large tree log) under retreating glaciers and its implications for the current climate narrative.

Image cropped from Report 24

In 2014, a massive Swiss stone pine (Zirbe) log weighing 1.7 tons was found in the retreat area of the Pasterze glacier at an altitude of 2,060 meters [03:16]. The tree from which the log originates is dated to be 6,000 years old.

Dr. Steiner points out that no trees of this size can grow at that altitude today because it is currently just too cold [03:27], suggesting that 6,000 years ago, temperatures in the Alps were significantly warmer than now [07:07]. That’s evidence that climate alarmists would prefer to censor.

Natural climate cycles

The presence of such biological material is undeniable evidence that glaciers have historically expanded and retreated in natural cycles long before industrial CO2 emissions [04:10].

Dr. Steiner argues against the “climate catastrophe” label for warming, asserting that historically, “cold periods” were the true catastrophes marked by famine, while “warm periods” (like the Medieval Warm Period) facilitated cultural and biological growth where scoieties flourished [05:40].

While acknowledging CO2 is a greenhouse gas, Dr. Steiner claims its contribution to global warming is minimal compared to water vapor, which is accepted by scienitsts as the dominant and necessary greenhouse gas for a habitable planet [10:41].

The video argues that the current focus on CO2 is mostly a “political-medial” construct used by the state to justify higher taxes and to “squeeze” citizens [22:08].

Over 50% believe climate change driven naturally

Moreover, Dr. Steiner references a February 2025 Special Eurobarometer (557), noting a shift in public perception. He claims that in several EU countries (e.g., Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland), over 50% of people now believe climate change is driven by natural causes rather than human activity [16:26].

In Austria, the percentage of people attributing climate change to natural causes has reportedly risen by 13% since 2021, reaching 43% [16:44].

The discussion concludes with a critique of rising energy costs and taxes. They argue that climate-related taxes disproportionately hurt the financially weak, while politicians remain unaffected by high fuel prices [23:03].

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Tom Halla
April 6, 2026 6:06 am

Liking the Little Ice Age is perverse.

Reply to  Tom Halla
April 6, 2026 7:24 am

Also, liking the economic hardships of the pre-industrial age in preference to the present success is insane.

Editor
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 6, 2026 7:42 am

Brian Fagan’s The Little Ice Age puts that at years 1300-1850, considerably more recent than the Holocene Warm Period 7,000-5,000 years ago. I don’t see any reference to it here or at Gosselin’s post. Are you referring something in particular?

Tom Halla
Reply to  Ric Werme
April 6, 2026 11:13 am

A generalized fear of warming. The earlier warm periods were rather pleasant compared to cold periods.

Reply to  Ric Werme
April 7, 2026 6:11 am

An excellent reference, despite his obligatory nod to the alarmist CO₂ paradigm.

April 6, 2026 6:09 am

Clearly, prehistoric Europeans hauled logs to mountain tops to placate the priests of Boreas.

DonK31
Reply to  R Taylor
April 6, 2026 6:26 am

Sisyphus was doomed to push the log up the mountain, only to see it roll down the other side.

claysanborn
Reply to  R Taylor
April 6, 2026 10:00 am

And here I was thinking that the Biblical Noah’s flood surely floated the tree to the top. <– Alarmists would probably go for this idea over allowing that the thrust of the article is correct, EXCEPT that the alarmists would also in effect be admitting the Bible is correct – alarmists’ version of blasphemy.

April 6, 2026 6:14 am

Otzi’s mummified body at 5500 tears old says the same thing. Even hiking in the Rockies one can suspect glacial expansion and retreat seeing tree trunks hundreds of feet above the current tree line.

Bryan A
Reply to  Steve Keohane
April 6, 2026 6:43 am

Perhaps Otzi was being punished and made to tow the log uphill from a lower altitude. ???

Robertvd
Reply to  Steve Keohane
April 7, 2026 8:04 am

Those who follow the work of Prof. Gernot Patzelt knew all about this. He found many tree roots in situ where today now trees can grow.
Gletscher- und Waldentwicklung in alpinen Hochlagen
https://youtu.be/glplSyZM7uE?si=h5fp5sUQc_znnnNU

Ron Long
April 6, 2026 6:21 am

Facts and logic won’t help with hardcore CAGW and TDS believers, nice to see it, though.

Reply to  Ron Long
April 6, 2026 6:34 am

I’m just waiting for the usual Fearless Champions of Orthodoxy to post smears of No Tricks and Dr. Steiner.

Bryan A
Reply to  R Taylor
April 6, 2026 6:45 am

That’s always the way, if you can’t attack the message, attack the messenger.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  R Taylor
April 6, 2026 2:20 pm

Well, the dude does need a haircut.

Bryan A
April 6, 2026 6:41 am

Politicians should NOT be allowed to enact Laws that then Don’t apply to Them equally.

Reply to  Bryan A
April 6, 2026 8:07 am

Yep.

My generation studied the Magna Carta in high school, for just that reason.

The generation of my children, has instead watched Al Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth multiple times in high school.

Those two factoids mean that children today in the U.S. are uninformed on two important topics!

Bryan A
Reply to  pillageidiot
April 6, 2026 10:44 am

But well informed on Unimportant topics.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  pillageidiot
April 6, 2026 2:22 pm

Actually they are disinformed.

Phillip Chalmers
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
April 6, 2026 4:19 pm

I call it deceived and the process brain-washing.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Phillip Chalmers
April 6, 2026 6:54 pm

Same thing

Reply to  Bryan A
April 7, 2026 7:14 am

That would take all the fun out of it!

Henry Pool
April 6, 2026 6:59 am

I am sure I wrote something about it getting substantially warmer every 1000 years or so….just like now.
Wait.
Here it is….

KevinM
Reply to  Henry Pool
April 6, 2026 9:17 am

Broken record nitpick – you’re claiming to find a 1000-year cycle in 1000 years worth of mediocre-quality data. Show me three cycles that an ordinary human would see as three cycles when they look at a chart (without adding a curve fit to imply them).

D Sandberg
Reply to  KevinM
April 6, 2026 10:18 am

Bond Cycles and Climate: Are We in the Middle of the Modern Warm Phase?

Bond events are roughly 1,500-year cycles of North Atlantic cooling, identified from ice-rafted debris in ocean sediments. They often correspond with historical warm/cool phases that shaped civilizations. Here’s how they line up:

  • Minoan Warm (~1500–500 BCE) – Near a Bond warm phase (~3,500 years ago).
  • Greek Dark Age Cool (~500–250 BCE) – Aligns with a Bond cooling event.
  • Roman Warm (~250 BCE–400 CE) – Rebound toward warmth.
  • Dark Ages Cool (~400–800 CE) – Another Bond cooling signal.
  • Medieval Warm (~900–1300 CE) – Warm phase between Bond cool events.
  • Little Ice Age (~1300–1850 CE) – Coincides with a Bond cooling event.
  • Modern Warm (1850–?) – If the cycle holds, this warm phase could extend to ~2250, with a midpoint peak around 2050.

Why It Matters
Bond cycles are natural, regional (Most of northern hemisphere) signals, that influence hemispheric climate through ocean circulation. Today, anthropogenic CO₂ forcing overlays these natural rhythms, possibly amplifying the current warm phase.

If both drivers peak together, the next two centuries could be slightly warmer than during the Holocene Climate Optimum (HCO). And that’s a good thing IMHO.

KevinM
Reply to  D Sandberg
April 6, 2026 4:17 pm

Had to wikipedia what a Bond cycle is and was struck by confirmation bias:

“Gerard C. Bond of the Lamont–Doherty Earth Observatory, at Columbia University, was the lead author of the 1997 paper that postulated the theory of 1470-year climate cycles in the Late Pleistocene and the Holocene, mainly based on petrologic tracers of drift ice in the North Atlantic.[1][3] However, more recent work at a single site suggested that the tracers did not provide sufficient support for 1,500-year intervals of climate change and suggested that the reported c. 1,500 ± 500-year period was a statistical artifact.[2]

Furthermore, after the publication of the Greenland Ice Core Chronology 2005 (GICC05)[4] for the North Greenland Ice Core Project ice core, it became clear that Dansgaard–Oeschger events also show no such pattern”

No doubt you and Pool and Bond have spent infinitely more time on the subject than me, but if you want to convince me something (anything) is cyclical then you have to show me more than one or two noisy cycles of proxy data.

Changed? sure
Last thousand years looks a little like a sine wave? okay
“Cyclical” to me means to me that we can guess what the curve will look like on the next cycle with reasonable confidence.

MarkW
Reply to  KevinM
April 7, 2026 7:44 am

Speaking of confirmation bias, Wikipedia, really?

KevinM
Reply to  MarkW
April 7, 2026 10:56 am

Yeah. ‘Easy’ has value. This should be a corporate slogan for AI companies – “Wouldn’t it be easy if…”. As long as anyone that cares knows I quoted the easy answer, then that’s okay.
I’d never try to pass off Wikipedia as my own, but in this case Wikipedia confirmed my bias.

Reply to  D Sandberg
April 6, 2026 6:19 pm

Modern warming started much earlier than 1850 which is clearly warmer than it was in 1700.

Henry Pool
Reply to  KevinM
April 6, 2026 10:24 am

I did quote the Korean investigation in my report?

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  KevinM
April 6, 2026 2:23 pm

He’s also always fishing for traffic to his site.

Phillip Chalmers
Reply to  KevinM
April 6, 2026 4:23 pm

this demand is coming from a person so ignorant that referring to Fourier series analysis would be throwing pearls for a swine to eat.

Richard M
Reply to  Henry Pool
April 7, 2026 4:59 pm

I often refer to the long term cycle as the millennial cycle. However, I believe it has been getting faster since the Holocene Optimum. IOW, it doesn’t follow a fixed cycle time. If so that puts us at or near the top of the current warm phase. Probably driven by ocean currents.

April 6, 2026 7:32 am

One (1) single tree log?

Really?

Also Austrians don’t seem like the smartest guys, a lot of them vote for their traitorous right wing party.

The Eurobarometer from June 2025

https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/3472

Over three quarters (77%) agree that the cost of damage caused by climate change outweighs the cost of transitioning to a climate-neutral economy, while 88% support greater investment in renewables and energy efficiency.

….

While 84% agree that climate change is caused by human activity, 52% say traditional media fail to provide clear information, and 49% report difficulty identifying reliable content on social media.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 7:50 am

Remains of the retreat and advance of glaciers in the Alps show the same story: 55% of the Holocene epoch was warmer than today, 45% cooler:
https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2004AGUFM.U43A0743J/abstract
The same for the Svartisen glacier in Norway…

And a survey of people that is “educated” by newspapers and TV has little scientific value… Especially when the “wishes” hit their money pocket…

starzmom
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 6, 2026 10:20 am

Don’t forget the large cohort that get their “news” from social media.

Michael Ketterer
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
April 7, 2026 1:53 pm

When Christian Schlüchter metions ‘today’ in 2004, he compairs to temperatures at the end of the 20th centucry. These temperatures in the glacier region of the Alps are more than 2°C lower than today’s (2020ies) temperatures.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 8:02 am

Albert Einstein, why 100 scientists to disprove me, one (1) is enough.
🤭 🤗 👍

Allen Pettee
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 8:08 am

One Swiss stone pine trumps millions of bristlecone pines….

Reply to  Allen Pettee
April 6, 2026 8:40 am

Millions?

Mr.
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 6, 2026 9:19 am

Mann’s statistical algorithm for his hokey schtick rejected millions of bristlecone pines in favor THE ONE that supported his conjecture.

(Yamal Peninsula?)

Reply to  Mr.
April 6, 2026 11:20 am

Oh, didn’t know that.

Erik Magnuson
Reply to  Mr.
April 6, 2026 12:52 pm

Bristlecone pines are found on the White Mountains in California. This is the mountain range that roughly separates the Owens Valley from Death Valley.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Mr.
April 6, 2026 2:26 pm

No, the Bristlecones were in the US Southwest. Briffa’s Larch (The One Tree) was in Yamal.

MarkW
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 8:20 am

Wow, you actually believe this evidence is meaningless because it is one single log?
Is that really the best you can do?

Scissor
Reply to  MarkW
April 6, 2026 8:32 am

Your Honor, it was only one body.

George Thompson
Reply to  Scissor
April 7, 2026 10:12 am

Not a bad crack, not at all. I do so love remarks that cut to the chase and simplify things.

Reply to  MarkW
April 6, 2026 8:42 am

Many logs and stumps are found well north in Canada- far beyond the tree line.

Mr.
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 6, 2026 9:20 am

and they all voted for Trudeau / Carney

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Mr.
April 6, 2026 2:28 pm

It’s more likely that the stumps well below the treeline voted for Justin Castreau, and Carnival Clown Carney.

Reply to  MarkW
April 6, 2026 3:09 pm

The logic of his position is reversed. The discover of that single log disproves (falsifies) the hypothesis that it is currently warmer than any time in the last X years (e.g. 100k years). His argument that a single observation is insufficient would only be valid for proving the hypothesis (given the that hypothesis is defined in the positive), i.e. if he observed an area above the current tree line and found no evidence of prehistoric trees, that would not be conclusive proof of the hypothesis, only evidence that would not contradict it. It only takes one falsifying observation to disprove the hypothesis though. If it was not warmer in the past, it would not be possible for trees to grow at that altitude. The observation of one tree also does not preclude the (highly likely) possibility that further trees at or above that elevation either did exist at the time or may still exist. Logic does not appear to be his strong suit.

Reply to  MarkH
April 7, 2026 4:47 am

Logic is antithetical to “climate crisis” true believers.

The first sign is that they actually believe that a climate warmer than The LITTLE ICE AGE is “bad news” when it is, in fact, an IMPROVEMENT.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 8:29 am

The evidence of the HCO is widespread. Organic detritus flowing out in glacial melt from under Alaskan glaciers has been carbon dated to ~7,000 years old. This indicates those ice filled valleys were ice-free and forested back then.

Neoglaciation has been occurring for the last 6,000+ years, ever since temperatures started to decline from the HCO, entirely consistent with the decline in solar insolation due to Milankovitch cycles, which peaked ~10,000 years ago.

The Earth has been cooling for 6,000+ years as we head toward another Ice Age, a pattern that has been repeated ~18 times over the last 1.8 million years.

Warmer Is Better. Fight the Ice.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  OR For
April 6, 2026 2:29 pm

The Earth has been cooling for 6,000+ years as we head toward another Ice Age,”

Toward another glacial period. We’re still in an Ice Age.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 8:36 am

“three quarters (77%) agree that the cost of damage caused by climate change outweighs the cost of transitioning to a climate-neutral economy”

Good thing real science isn’t based on polls.

MarkW
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 6, 2026 1:19 pm

I surveyed the people who agree with me and 90% of them agree with me.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 7, 2026 4:50 am

Mainly those polled are the gullible who believe every WEATHER disaster was “caused by climate change.”

Conditioned by nearly 40 years of propaganda. Goebbels would smile and nod approvingly.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 8:37 am

“One (1) single tree log?
Really?”

One that is the latest of many.
https://www.livescience.com/4702-melting-glacier-reveals-ancient-tree-stumps.html
https://www.nps.gov/places/interstadial-stumps-glacier-bay.htm

And here’s a few things besides tree stumps from various places around the globe.
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/503309/8-amazing-things-uncovered-melting-glaciers-and-ice

(I saw other links but more than 3 goes into automatic moderation.)

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 8:38 am

“Also Austrians don’t seem like the smartest guys, a lot of them vote for their traitorous right wing party.”

So, in a democracy, those who vote for the person you don’t like, they’re traitorous dummies. Got it.

MarkW
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 6, 2026 1:21 pm

Socialists have a long history of criminalizing dissent as soon as they have sufficient power.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 8:59 am

MUR, Here’s one more tree remnant in a totally different part of the world that supports Dr. Steiner’s case. There are tens of thousands more just like this one all over the Arctic Tundra and in alpine regions throughout the world.

1000000149
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 9:17 am
J Boles
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 9:34 am

So therefore you need to stop using fossil fuels right now! the sky is falling!

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 9:47 am

One (1) single tree log?

Really?

If that’s your best counter-argument, you must be really STUMPed…

George Thompson
Reply to  PariahDog
April 7, 2026 10:16 am

Ouch! Today seems to be a day for humor and bad puns. Good deal.

paul courtney
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 11:06 am

Mr. lametroll: You can ask about the single log all you want, but Prof. Mann has shown he doesn’t respond to skeptics like you and Watts. Mann hates you non-climate scientists always doubting his tree-ring circus.
Hah!

George Thompson
Reply to  paul courtney
April 7, 2026 10:17 am

Like I said above.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 11:48 am

The conditions necessary for preservation or fossilization are quite demanding. Only a small percentage of biota survives. Similarly, the conditions under which existing evidence is uncovered is rare. However, one can be sure that if there is even one piece of evidence pointing to the nature of a past ecosystem, there is more. It is usually unevenly distributed.

Surveys are worthless without the exact question put to those surveyed, how the group surveyed was selected, and what the margin of error was. Even so, polls tend to be little more than a sharing of ignorance. No wonder you put stock in them.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 2:00 pm

There is a HUGE amount of evidence from all around the world that the whole planet was considerably warmer 6000 years ago.

There is no evidence that humans have caused much “climate change” at all..

… except by increasing urban temperatures.

All your link shows is just how incredibly GULLIBLE most people are to a constant bombardment of garbage propaganda…

.. it is totally meaningless in terms of any reality.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 2:02 pm

“One (1) single tree log? Really?”

LOL.. the whole of Mann’s fake hockey stick was based on one tree !!

Reply to  bnice2000
April 6, 2026 5:47 pm

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Except for climate change, weapons of mass destruction and illegal deportations, of course.

Reply to  bnice2000
April 8, 2026 8:30 am

On that note, I think I’ll recycle this old thing …

Stopping by Yamal One Snowy Evening

What tree this is, I think I know.
It grew in Yamal some time ago.
Yamal 06 I’m placing here
In hopes a hockey stick will grow.

But McIntyre did think it queer
No tree, the stick did disappear!
Desparate measures I did take
To make that stick reappear.

There were some corings from a lake.
And other data I could bake.
I’ll tweek my model more until
Another hockey stick I’ll make!

I changed a line into a hill!
I can’t say how I was thrilled!
Then Climategate. I’m feeling ill.
Then Climategate. I’m feeling ill.

Phillip Chalmers
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 4:26 pm

Just to remind ourselves, Einstein declared correctly that his findings did not need to be accepted by majority, or even many, he invited just one datum which went contrary to his publishings. Just one factual contradiction could be fatal to any theory.
Yes, little sparrow, one log is enough!

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 6:25 pm

Yawn it is clear you didn’t know about other discoveries that make clear it was warmer such as Hannibal crossing the Alps in the fall time of the year in mild conditions with elephants who couldn’t possibly cross them today.

Climatic conditions in the Alps in the years about the year of Hannibal’s crossing (218 BC)
LINK

George Thompson
Reply to  Sunsettommy
April 7, 2026 10:20 am

I believe his route was found just recently. Weathered and buried but with good ground proofing.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 6:30 pm

In 1990, the overwhelming majority of doctors believed stress and lifestyle were the primary causes of ulcers. When researchers Barry Marshall and Robin Warren proposed the bacterial theory in the early 1980s, they were largely dismissed. Even in the late 1980s and early 1990s, the scientific community widely considered H. pylori a harmless bystander.

Reality doesn’t care what the consensus of scientists is.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 6:40 pm

How many trees on another planet would be required to prove there’s extraterrestrial life?

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 7:22 pm

MUR:
Let me fix your first bolded statement:
“Over three quartes (77%) agree of citizens have been duped into thinking that the cost…”

Watch a Bjorn Lomborg 19 min youtube video discussing the economics of climate change to show how people have been duped by the climate alarmist knaves:
https://youtu.be/HWqv6RH-3WE
[GDP graphics at ~8:45 into the presentation]

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 6, 2026 9:06 pm

It’s undeniable. Climate denialists have probably invented a time machine to place a tree trunk taken from elsewhere at this exact spot. In any case, it’s the simplest explanation that comes to mind if one absolutely has to preserve the integrity of the catastrophist dogma.

Unless… yes. The principle of Occam’s razor leads me to think that the alarmists are very, very poorly shaved.

Editor
April 6, 2026 7:36 am

Nice. I added this to my https://wermenh.com/climate/6000.html , a page I started after seeing a two or three similar reports one weekend.

This period, the Holocene Warm Period (nee Holocene Climate Optimum), is one of the main reasons I’m not very concerned about current warming. Earth and humans survived it quite well.

MarkW
Reply to  Ric Werme
April 6, 2026 8:22 am

This is the time period during which agriculture was developed and the first large cities were built.
Mankind didn’t just survive, we thrived.

Reply to  Ric Werme
April 6, 2026 8:43 am

Here in Wokeachusetts- we had one day it got up to 70F, the one and only time since last October. So, I’m not losing sleep over warming. I’m praying there will be a lot more of it.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Ric Werme
April 6, 2026 4:42 pm

If we had been cooling for the last 150 years, the caterwauling would be about that, and how it’s the fault of humans and out day to day lives. Just like the cooling scare of the 70s. They were prepared to blame it on us.

Reply to  Ric Werme
April 6, 2026 6:30 pm

Ohh, I like this will post that in my Earth section of my forum.

Cheers

April 6, 2026 8:29 am

No surprise, Suriname had an ocean high stand 6000 years ago (Wanica Phase)

April 6, 2026 8:30 am

“where scoieties flourished”

spelling! tsk tsk!

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 6, 2026 4:44 pm

How do you know scoieties didn’t flourish? Eh smarty pants?

April 6, 2026 8:48 am

“log weighing 1.7 tons was found in the retreat area of the Pasterze glacier at an altitude of 2,060 meters”

Since it was under a glacier, it may have originated far above that elevation, and pushed down by the glacier. If there was one, there most likely were many.

Rud Istvan
April 6, 2026 9:08 am

There is much other physical evidence in the northern hemisphere for this significantly warmer period about 6000 years ago. Similar tree stump evidence exists in the Norwegian and Canadian north, uncovered by melting ice. So the news isn’t the evidence, it is that more and more people in Europe are become aware of it and questioning the warmunist agenda.

D Sandberg
April 6, 2026 10:10 am

Climate alarmists have long ago explained the warm/cool cycles of the past 8000 years as being only regional. They ignore the ever increasing evidence that the “region” is now at least the north half of the globe.

Reply to  D Sandberg
April 6, 2026 11:59 am

Besides, glaciers don’t grow in the middle of the South Atlantic Ocean.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  D Sandberg
April 6, 2026 12:42 pm

Actually, with respect to the MWP there is even good evidence on the Antarctic Peninsula. The ‘only regional’ argument has been debunked for quite a while. Don’t know offhand of southern hemisphere evidence for the Holocene warm period.

Anthony Banton
April 6, 2026 11:34 am

Like a goldfish circling a bowl and forgetting that it was here a few seconds ago we have “it was warmer x thousand years ago” once more.

Yes we know.
Nothing new.

Twas caused by Mr Milankovitch’s cycles, whereby 6000ya the Earth’s tilt was coming back from it’s maximum of 24.5deg and it occurred during the NH summer. This gave ~25 W/m2 of extra solar insolation at lat 65 N in the summer. That latitude is very important as it contains the most land-mass of any latitude. Hence landlocked northen ice-sheets experienced max melt and once gone the land was free to heat, much more than the present Earth-orbit tilt allows.

The correspond SH response to the tilt was a max insolation during the winter and so a warming effect was minimal.
Overall the Earth received the same insolation as now – just that it was distributed such that a max effect was acheived in the high latidues with the ice sheets and ocean respone lagging the maximum tilt by a few thousand years.

MarkW
Reply to  Anthony Banton
April 6, 2026 1:25 pm

Way to fast to be Milankovitch. You can repeat a lie as many times as you like, it still won’t make it true.

Reply to  Anthony Banton
April 6, 2026 2:13 pm

Admitting it was much warmer in the NH during the Holocene optimum… Well done 🙂

But there is considerable bio evidence that it was also warmer in the SH.

Antarctic is cooler now than for any time in the last 8000 years

Holocene-Cooling-Antarctica-West-Fudge-16
Anthony Banton
Reply to  bnice2000
April 6, 2026 11:22 pm

In case you have not grokked … the clue in the acronym “AGW”, is the letter “G” !

I repeat from above, the total solar insolation the Earth received was the same, only it was distributed differently … you know the lack reduced albedo due the ice-sheet melt and the fact that the SH is mostly water.
But then you are incapable of considering the complexity of the meteorology of the Earth.
So what’s new here?

Anthony Banton
Reply to  Anthony Banton
April 7, 2026 1:27 am

comment image?w=970&ssl=1

From Andy May’s website.
NB: the differential between the NH and the south.

This is a non-story, climate science knows that the northern parts of Europe was warm 6000 years ago and the entirety of the globe barely. They know why (disparity in aborbed TSI due to Earth’s tilt) and indeed the world’s regional lemperatures can be affected by the Sun when the Earth is transiting out of a Glaciation.
None of this has any bearing on the present.

paul courtney
Reply to  Anthony Banton
April 7, 2026 4:52 am

Mr. Banton: Yeah, complex. You delude yourself into thinking YOU have solved the complexity in your brief comment, which merely serves to demonstrate profound ignorance. Desperate to avoid the utter debunking of your pet theory, you say “climate science knows” something that Prof. Mann says never happened. How about this, Mr. Banton, show us where Mann has said it was warmer 6k yrs ago. I’ll come back tomorrow.

Reply to  bnice2000
April 7, 2026 5:01 am

SH, NH, , and I have dozens and dozens of other graphs and proxy reports that show the whole of the planet was warmer during the Holocene Optimum.

Very much GLOBAL.

What isn’t real is any anthropogenic “global” warming over the last 200 years…

… just a NATURAL recovery from the coldest period in 10,000 years.. THANK GOODNESS. !!

Reply to  Anthony Banton
April 6, 2026 2:14 pm

And another piece of evidence

Holocene-cooling-Antarctica-5C-warmer-Myers-2021
Reply to  bnice2000
April 6, 2026 11:03 pm

Plenty of proxies from the SH show it was warmer there too. As MarkW points out, this warming cannot be caused by Milankovitch Cycles (shortest cycle 41000 years).

Anthony Bunter invents facts to support his narrative. Some would call that lying.

Anthony Banton
Reply to  Graemethecat
April 7, 2026 1:08 am

“Anthony Bunter invents facts to support his narrative. Some would call that lying.”

No, just well known facts of the mechanics of Earth’s orbital eccentricities, tied to the well known facts of the Milankovitch cycles’ effect Earth’s absorbed energy as a result.

And some would say that most on here either cling onto oulier evidence or present none at all.
Vis your post:
And of course a single tree if it supported the AGW narative would be condemed out of hand, whereas this, well ……

Reply to  Anthony Banton
April 7, 2026 3:27 am

In that case, kindly present treeline evidence that the Holocene was not warmer than today.

I notice you have not attempted to rebut MarkW’s point that the Holocene warming cannot be attributed to Milankovitch cycles.

At least you concede that the NH was warmer.

Anthony Banton
Reply to  bnice2000
April 7, 2026 1:06 am

The top (blue) blue line =NH
Bottom (dashed) line =SH.
Middle (red) line =global ave

comment image?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=e06c5d&_nc_ohc=SQWCJfrAkdQQ7kNvwH8SvXC&_nc_oc=AdrSNtg0QllUeAELMBsQljDXNzglJ3lD3wWxay6erND28Lw7suYpPQA8DoexR4njoys&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.flba2-2.fna&_nc_gid=aUughYw18FwJChS2aSMuqg&_nc_ss=7a3a8&oh=00_Af0SPZvVKlfdgtTXrtvCKg0OaThk_5Sn3sA7hEupKISy-Q&oe=69D9A4FD

Anthony Banton
Reply to  bnice2000
April 7, 2026 1:31 am

Another Andy May graph …..

comment image

Reply to  Anthony Banton
April 7, 2026 4:50 am

More Antarctic cooling.

Holocene-Cooling-Antarctica-Rella-Uchida-14
Anthony Banton
Reply to  bnice2000
April 8, 2026 4:08 am

Bless, that graph proves my post!

The NW pacific mid-waters were “warm” at 6000 ya and the opposite (cool) in Antarctic waters.

From the Rella and Uchida 2014 paper ….

“AbstractHolocene ocean circulation is poorly understood due to sparsity of dateable marine archives with submillennial-scale resolution. Here we present a record of mid-depth water radiocarbon contents in the Northwest (NW) Pacific Ocean over the last 12.000 years, which shows remarkable millennial-scale variations relative to changes in atmospheric radiocarbon inventory. Apparent decoupling of these variations from regional ventilation and mixing processes leads us to the suggestion that the mid-depth NW Pacific may have responded to changes in Southern Ocean overturning forced by latitudinal displacements of the southern westerly winds. By inference, a tendency of in-phase related North Atlantic and Southern Ocean overturning would argue against the development of a steady bipolar seesaw regime during the Holocene.”

Reply to  Anthony Banton
April 7, 2026 4:51 am

And some more.. Even the MWP stands out.

Holocene-Cooling-West-Antarctica-Shevenell-2011
Anthony Banton
Reply to  bnice2000
April 8, 2026 4:01 am

SST’s and not the continent.

Also the Rella & Uchida graph shows Antactic waters colder.

Reply to  Anthony Banton
April 7, 2026 4:55 am

And another showing COOLING since 400AD.

Antarcticacooling
Anthony Banton
Reply to  bnice2000
April 8, 2026 3:48 am

Take it up with Mr May – he has the graph on his website.

Anthony Banton
Reply to  bnice2000
April 8, 2026 3:59 am

But warming from ~1850
(what’s significant about 1850?)
Start of modern warming

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Anthony Banton
April 6, 2026 4:49 pm

Well then, please tell your fellow travelers that there is no climate catastrophe, that the oceans aren’t boiling. Please tell them that if we’re lucky, we’ll get back to that optimum for a few thousand years, before the glaciers begin their inevitable long advance once again.

sherro01
April 6, 2026 1:33 pm

From the last 150 years of recorded history, the region now called Germany has made numerous socio-political decisions that have been disasters. World Wars I and II are noted. More recently, much of the alleged global catastrophe from use of hydrocarbons that produce CO2 originates in or near Germany. Witness numerous fearful articles from Potsdam Institute, a world leader in stirring up anti-hydrocarbon frenzy.
Those who accept such Germano-centric history might ask “Why Germany?” and “Why time after time?” Few analysts have asked these obvious questions in public.
In recent years, with the furore following widespread global excess deaths after the forceful use of Covid-19 “vaccines”, there have been more articles and opinions about human body chemistry being altered significantly. If this can happen so clearly and validly from man-made efforts, surely it is possible that there can be similar natural effects that have altered human body chemistry and consequently, the ways that groups of people think.
There have been many past expressions like “It must be something in the drinking water”. However, this line has mainly been used with cynicism. Some might say it is designed to halt deep research into the possibilities because people are afraid of what might be found from proper, quality research.
We have learned to expect opposition to research involving intelligence differences between groups. Past deflections have often led to accusations of racism, trying to denigrate black or white or yellow or brown skins. Deflections can harm.
Surely, there is a need to research what has caused Germany to be different. A more harmonious global society is a possible outcome, one which should be sought, not resisted as at present. It is past time for skilled studies into why groups think differently, to address for example the Mackay observation that people go mad in groups, but recover slowly one by one.
Geoff S

JTraynor
April 6, 2026 1:39 pm

I think Michael Mann should use that tree’s rings to create a model demonstrating that this tree wasn’t really there.

heme212
April 6, 2026 2:48 pm

WAIT!!! So otzi WASN”T tunneling thru the ice to escape? wow, you just knocked my whole world view out of joint.

Bob
April 6, 2026 3:46 pm

Hats off to Dr Steiner, maybe there is hope for Europe after all.

Edward Katz
April 6, 2026 5:54 pm

So what else is new except the mainstream media always makes certain to downplay such findings and facts. Instead, they always assert that unless we turn away from fossil fuels, the whole planet is doomed—again!

GiraffeOnKhat
April 7, 2026 6:05 am

It’s the same in Scotland. There are adjacent visitor centre signs at the Flow Country exhibition – one warning just how important the peat bogs are as a store of carbon in the fight to keep climate change to 1.5C, and while the other explains how the bogs were formed from vast decomposing forests 5000 years ago when the climate was over 5 degrees warmer.

Jack
April 8, 2026 2:25 am

The usual narrative of the carbonwarmists is that, like during the Middle Age warm period, the Holocene Optimum was strictly limited to western Europe ! Elsewhere in the world this warm period was noy warmer than today !