h/t MGUY; Children’s fingers, toes and noses are so overrated…
Parents raise concerns over heat issues in electric school buses in Lake Shore Central School District
Rob Petree
Fri, December 19, 2025 at 8:10 AM GMT+10ERIE COUNTY, N.Y. (WIVB) — On the heels of a statewide mandate requiring all school bus purchases in New York State be electric by 2027, parents in the Lake Shore Central School District are speaking out, claiming some bus drivers are turning the heat down, or off completely, in an attempt to conserve battery life on their electric school buses.
WIVB News 4 has received several calls from concerned parents in the school district, which covers parts of Angola, Brant, and Derby, regarding their child’s bus trips to and from school, claiming they’re coming in freezing when they get home after getting off the bus.
The kids are coming home saying their bus is freezing cold and the parents are giving them hand warmers.
…
“The bus broke down on route,” explained Chris Lampman, another concerned parent whose son allegedly had to stand outside in the freezing cold as a result. “They deployed a substitute bus, and the bus was more than 30 minutes late. My son stood outside for over 35 minutes waiting for a bus that wasn’t coming. Some of those kids are on there for upwards of a half hour or more while the bus makes its route. There’s no reason that the kids should freeze for all that time.”
…
“My grandson came home from school last week when it was 23 degrees,” Urbino stated. “He said they didn’t have heat. He came in cold, and I told him, I said, ‘isn’t the bus warm?’ And he said ‘no, they can’t put the heat on because it drains the battery.’”
…
Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/parents-raise-concerns-over-heat-221015103.html
The school district claims elsewhere in the quoted article that policy is to keep the buses warm, and that the buses have enough battery capacity to complete all required routes.
If this claim heating is being switched off is true, the risk to the health of kids is unconscionable. Not everyone is wealthy enough to afford all the warm weather clothes their kids might need. Young kids especially can lose gloves and hats, or forget to put them on. A kid who boards the bus with a cold might have pneumonia by the time they get off.
There is also a risk to the health of the drivers. Sitting still in hard frost temperatures while driving a bus is a potential DVT, frostbite, stroke and heart attack risk.
I don’t blame the drivers – they are likely just doing what they have to, to ensure the kids aren’t exposed to cold for an even longer time while waiting for a replacement bus. But if anything bad happens, I’m sure the driver will be blamed for violating policy by switching off the heating.
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Ah! But asceticism is a virtue!!
Only if it is voluntary.
Perhaps they should power than like electric trolleys from OH wires. No Battery Degradation to be concerned with.
Running power lines and tracks for all those miles costs even more than the battery powered busses.
But it allows for both energizing the motors and generation heat in winter without the inherent problems with battery flambe. You just need to run OH power lines along the bus route. Tracks aren’t necessary as the trolleys still function on Rubber Tires.
Weren’t these buses ‘trialed’ for purpose – a trial run performed, by the manufacturer or distributor, during or before any bid process?
No.
EV buses, like electric anythings, are not immune to “aging” degradations.
There is also the problem of battery capacity loss due to cold temperature. The reduction is about 45% at 0C. You can use some of the battery capacity to keep the battery warm, but either way you lose. It takes a lot of heat to keep a school bus warm – something that’s no problem for a liquid cooled ICE engine, but a serious range issue for an EV.
If they had a trail, it was likely held in the summer.
Hope someone sues the crap out of them . And wins big .
They have been abusing, transitioning, vaccinating, oversexualising and abotrting the hell out of children with 0 consequences – how can a bit of freezing change this?Especially when it is caused by global warming.
They’ll give just every child a hockeystick to counter the freeze.
Either through bond default or federal bailout, you are hoping to pay.
But that money will come out of your taxes and or your school budget
Which ultimately comes out of your taxes anyway
Not if the idiots get sued personally!
Which is what I hope happens !
“Local governing bodies that have both legislative and administrative functions generally have qualified immunity except when exercising exclusive legislative powers. In most cases qualified immunity must be pleaded and proved by the defendant. Liability exists for intentional acts as well as for negligence, but not in cases involving simple negligence or mere lack of due care.”
Keep the heat on, if the bus runs out of charge at lest the bus will be warm when the driver pulls over to wait for a replacement. One more thing fire every government official who voted to force the purchase of electric busses, sell the electric busses to Canada and buy busses that actually work, gas or diesel. These people need to quit being stupid.
Quebec school divisions tried electric school buses for awhile and they proved so unreliable in the colder weather that the province experiences that they pulled them off the road. Meanwhile their manufacturer either stopped producing them not only because they couldn’t provide consistent heat but also because they couldn’t be depended upon for consistent operation. In the end the provincial government either stopped subsidizing them or stopped buying them altogether. Yet this was just another example of Quebec jumping aboard a environmental bandwagon that had no proven track record in the first place and then confirmed it once it was tried in large-scale operation.
Perhaps, like the redundant electric generating system, they should maintain a duplicate fleet of Diesel powered School Busses to use in the winter and save the Electric Busses for Summer.
Apparently quite a lot of electric buses in northern climates like Canada are equipped with diesel powered heaters. (I am not sure if they use those to keep the batteries warm in addition to the cabin – they certainly could) This dual power system is described as a “stopgap” on the path to “fully electric”. Or so they fantasize…
Makes sense, however I doubt these outfits will be around in a few years. No spare parts or whatever parts are necessary to keep these buses operational and on the road. The entire EV craze is ridiculous and utterly useless.
Bryan:
A bus driver in Zion National Park [they have an electric bus system] told me they can’t always run the A/C during the summer since it drains the battery too quickly — especially on the really hot days.
The solution is to remove the batteries and power them from OH lines
Some of these parents and kids are such wimps it’s embarrassing. No doubt there were a few amputations related to frostbite, but all of this wouldn’t have occurred if the school districts had stuck to good old reliable gas or diesel buses, but I guess the climate gurus told the authorities that these wouldn’t be needed any longer since winters would soon be things of the past. The solution is simple: school authorities should replace the EV buses because they’re not going to save the planet and parents should dress their kids properly for winter conditions.
No, EK, they just need to learn to tough it out. What’s some discomfort and a little frostbite compared to saving the world?
Being familiar with the area in question having school buses which are not capable of maintaining interior temp during winter is a massive liability issue. A fast moving cold system can roll off the lake and drop temps by 30 or more degrees in very short time frames. This also effects EV operation, they do VERY poorly with rapid freezing temps will operating. What morons came up with this idea? Oh, yea, Democrat morons, thats who.
I suspect that the buses aren’t very well insulated, either.
The five I checked out last summer had zero insulation, side and roof panels were so thin I could have kicked my way through them. Guess that is a positive, when they catch on fire the chi’drens can get out easily.
But the thought that they are helping to “save the planet” should warm the cockles of their little hearts.
Ah, fond memories of waiting for school busses in Chicago winters — NOT!
But back in my day, kids were bundled off to school with warm clothes, mittens, caps and galoshes because, gosh, it was cold and there was snow on the ground. Our parents did not drive us to the bus stops and allow us to wait in the warm car until the bus arrived; we walked to the bus stop and waited out in the open for the bus. And God help you if you were late and missed the bus. It was either walk to school or walk home and face a very unhappy mom whose planned morning schedule just got blown.
Yes, the busses should have adequate heat. But even with no heat the kids are sheltered from the wind, which is by far the worst of it. A warm jacket, mittens and a cap should take care of any NY winter conditions that still allow the schools to stay open.
None of this excuses the stupidity of the NY electric bus mandate, but I’m far more concerned about a battery fire with a bunch of panicked kids on board than having them actually experience what winter is.
Never got to wait for a bus–walked the entire way both coming and going. Only 3 blocks to the elementary school, but more than 2 miles to the Jr.high/high school. Philly in the 50’s and early 60’s where the creeks would freeze over before thanksgiving and we could ice skate usually into March most years.
Uphill both ways? 🙂
From Chicago huh? Me too, and I remember standing in deep snow in blizzard conditions waiting for the bus before I and my buds and kid sister walked two miles also, no kidding, to high school.1965 time frame thereabouts, Western burbs area. Schools NEVER closed…snow days? Hah!
PS…blizzard of 67 was a doozie…Willowbrook?
I remember the blizzard of 67.
A battery fire could be good thing. Everyone can gather round the fire and keep themselves warm for hours until the fire burns itself out. The school district can then use the insurance money to replace the EV bus with a reliable, warm, ICE or diesel bus.
Bill:
Nice sarcasm.
Note how quickly this e-Bus in Paris is engulfed in flames — less than 10 sec.
Doubt very many could escape if it had passengers. Luckily, this bus was empty & the driver was on a coffee break.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA7SoM2DWuM
Heating an area like the inside of a bus with the door constantly opening and closing must take a lot of electricity. If that wasn’t taken into account then, God forbid, add a fossil fuel heater during the cold.
Apparently a lot of electric buses actually do use diesel powered auxiliary heaters.
Maybe turning off the (electric) heat in an EV school bus is better than it catching fire from too much combined battery drain . . . that is, too many amperes being drawn continuously through undersized wiring or corroded electrical connections?
Just asking.
Add child abuse to the climate crusades inc. accomplishments.
Their great grand parents used to walk to one-room schools through blizzards in bare feet. Kids today, hey. Toughen up, snowflakes.
Mom said it was up-hill both ways and the snow was 2 feet deep.
4 feet deep in our version. 🙂
Up hill…in both directions!!!
They should walk to school. They’d be nice and warm if well dressed- they’d get their needed exercise and be sharper in school after such a brisk walk.
Yep.
It is indeed not the fault of the bus drivers. This is the fault of the childrens’ parents. Vote for stupid choices, get stupid results.
It’s hardly surprising that New York is barely second after California in leading the United States in out-migration to other, more sensible states.
I actually walked to school for the elementary grades- about 2 miles- from the first grade to 8th, here in frigid Wokeachusetts. In high school, we got the busses but I often drove my dad’s car to school to avoid the bullies on the bus.
First and Second grades for me were about 15 miles away (Rural VA, outside Front Royal in the Blue Ridge Mtns), so always buses.
Then we moved to Manassas, VA, and the elementary schools were walking distance, so was the middle school. High School was about 4-5 miles away so it was buses or car. So I did a lot of walking as a kid, but they were pretty easy, no more than a mile in residential areas.
I walked to school from K-11th then I got my Drivers License and still walked to school. One school, 10th to 11th was three miles away and I rode my bicycle. All others were no more than 10 blocks away. Even Kindergarten was 8 blocks away.
Come on. Kids outside in the cold for 35 minutes? What’s the problem? A good snowball fight will keep you warm. I used to stay out for hours. And walked to and from school no problem (not uphill both ways, though). Kids today are wimps.
Infantalisation is a thing. Children are being over coddled now more than ever.
The buses are just like reading and math curriculum. Bad for kids.
I wonder how big that risk is. There’s cold and then there’s frostbite-inducing cold. When I drive in the snow, as long as salt trucks haven’t messed up the roads, I keep my car’s interior temperature to just below freezing. That way snow doesn’t melt on the windshield so I don’t need wipers, but is warm enough to keep the windows from fogging up.
Then, of course, there’s waiting for the school bus in the morning. No heat while standing by the mail box. I dressed to prevent frostbite on those cold Ohio mornings. Was I supposed to dress to prevent DVT, stroke, and heart attack too? How about while skiing? Some of those chairlift rides can be rather chilly!
If the parents are right, on a least one occasion the heating was turned off on a 23F day.
The bus has a computer. The computer could show if the heat was turned off or not.
More important is if it was on what was it set at. I grew up in a milder climate, It would still get cold enough to frost at night but warm up into the higher 30’s low 40’s most days. With the heat on at full blast the back of the bus would still get quite cold with the door opening and closing constantly.
When I flew into San Diego in December in a year which is best forgotten, the Navy had an old gray Gillig(?) bus, the kind with the corrugated sides so many schools use, waiting for us. Alas, said the lifer who met us, the driver had kept the heater running while waiting for us slowpokes, and we would have to push start the bus.
I had my doubts about the story, but I had volunteered, and there I was, not interested in walking to boot camp. What’s a dumbass recruit gonna do?
Will someone please educate these whiney children and parents that unheated busses are a sacrifice they must make to save the planet? They’re lucky to have busses at all and aren’t made to walk uphill, both ways in a snowstorm.
That’s odd… where are all the EV shills?
Making the kids seat belt into a EV bus which are a bit like a molotov cocktail waiting for a place to happen … what could possibly go wrong.
The school district is likely ignoring the fact that when operating an EV scoolbus in 20° F weather, the battery efficiency drops substantially. The drivers realize that they can either heat the bus or complete their route, but not both.
Add a small diesel generator to maintain battery voltage and utilise the waste heat to warm the bus… simples.
A small Battery Fire works wonders too…break out the Marshmallows
— “Weird Al” Yankovic, When I was your age
Let’s just take a moment to reflect on how modern technology has improved our lives in the last decade… (/sarc)