By P Gosselin on 16. June 2024
Back to fossil fuels!
The figures for the registration of new electric cars in Germany are looking increasingly awful. In May 2024, the Federal Motor Transport Authority (KBA) reported that it had registered only 29,708 vehicles with electric motors.
May e-car sales in Germany plummet more than 30% compared to a year earlier. AI image Chat GPT.
That is 30.6% down on the result for the same month last year.
CO2 emissions of new German cars also rose 3.3%…indicating the green transition has stalled and is reversing.
Hat-tip: Blackout News
The KBA also adds that 89,498 passenger cars were equipped with a gasoline engine – an increase of 2.1 percent compared to the same month last year.
44,893 new cars were diesel-powered, an increase of 3.2 percent compared to the same month last year.
71,451 new cars had a hybrid drive in May 2024, accounting for a share of 30.2% (-0.3%), including 14,038 plug-in hybrids (+1.7%/5.9%).
According to the KBA, the average CO2 emissions of new passenger car registrations rose by +3.3% and amounted to 124.0 g/km.
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BEVs are not quite all that practical.
Not even to the Green agenda at this point.
So why the Big Rush to replace something that works well with something that doesn’t work as good or better and doesn’t perform to the same standard or better?
BEVs don’t have the range of ICVs
BEVs don’t refuel as fast as ICVs
BEVs can’t tow as much or as far as ICVs between refueling stops
BEVs don’t maintain their range capacity over time like ICVs do
BEVs don’t have the same range regardless of temperature like ICVs do
BEVs can’t refuel below certain temperatures without pre-warming the fuel tank
ICVs don’t care about temperature except for antifreeze requirements
BEV fuel tank weighs the same full or empty.
Then there’s this story. “Arctic Canada now has a total 34 public charging stations for seven electric vehicles…”
https://www.blacklocks.ca/one-region-hits-ev-targets/
And Alpine Tx, population 6000, has a new 8 bay charging station in the parking lot of the local drive through liquor store. In my 2 weeks spend in Alpine over the last year, I’ve seen exactly ZERO EVs being charged, or driving through the liquor store or on the streets for that matter.
Arctic Canada makes up 21 – 40% of Canada’s land mass depending on how you define it and is home to 100,000 Canadians.
“Are those 34 public charging stations evenly distributed?” enquiring EV drivers ask.
More good news.
“….the green transition has stalled and is reversing.”
That’s good news from my perspective!
It is great to have Pierre in Germany, Paul in the UK, Eric in Australia, and the US crowd..
contributing from around the world. 🙂
The “plunge” was due to the withdrawal of EV subsidies. They were withdrawn early because they proved so popular. Enjoy your pollution spewing, overly complex, hard to maintain, quick to require replacement, CO2 producing, monsters while you can.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/germany-end-e-vehicle-subsidy-programme-2023-12-16/
Thing is, they are not “quick to require replacement”. A modern ICE car can easily last 20 years now. In its later years its going to cost more in maintenance, but just look on the used car sites on the net and you will find lots of offers of perfectly serviceable cars in the 15-20 year old category.
The Achilles heel of EVs is still the batteries. Its due to the batteries that they cost so much more in the first place, then that is why they cost more to insure, and that’s why they are not a simple substitute in use for ICE. Refuel times, minor accidents leading to writeoff, range, especially in cold weather. There’s also, as they get to be more of the installed base, the troubling issue of network capacity to refuel them, and the price of that fuel. In the UK smart meters are to be used in residential context to manage when they can be charged. And as the UK example also shows, refuelling them in public charge points is going to be very expensive. When its available.
There is a reason why EV used prices are falling. They are very risky bets. You have no idea how the battery has been treated, and you are probably going to have to make major compromises on how you use your car, to fit them into your life.
And with all that, the EV program is not even going to lead to lower CO2 emissions, because the other part of the program, the part that tries to convert power generation to wind and solar, isn’t going to work either. So the proposition is not that you convert and run everything on green power. Its that you convert and use the fossil fuel to generate electricity which you then pipe into the batteries. By the time you get through its not clear that there is any CO2 savings compared with just burning the oil or gas directly in the vehicle. And real pollution, particle pollution from tires and brake pads, rises, because of heavier weights.
Battery technology could improve sufficiently to make EVs competitive, but it hasn’t happened yet, despite huge amounts of work on it. Until it does, there is going to be consumer resistance to EVs, and governments are going to be faced with the problem that they just won’t sell. As long as this is true, the main effect of the EV drive is going to be people keeping their old ICE cars far longer. As they can, with modern cars.
Battery tech is already competitive:
https://electrek.co/2024/04/03/catl-launches-new-ev-battery-last-1-million-miles-15-yrs/
In Oz, where there are no subsidies or tariffs, electric cars are already competitive with ICEs. You can get a quite smart, small car, 5 Star safety rating for around $23k USD, inc AC, driver assist etc. Of course it is automatic, as EVs don’t need gears.
https://zecar.com/reviews/gwm-ora-australias-best-value-electric-car-for-single-couple-buyers
A bit like carbon free sugar.. Fakery abounds.
And gullible idiots go for it.
Tonyx might want to research the meaning of “gear” and count the number of cells in a typical EV battery (usually in the thousands).
More importantly, it turns out that many used ICE vehicles are exported to third world nations extending the lifetime of vehicles to decades. Any EVs sales just accelerate this process. Now it seems that about 50% of EV purchasers choose to go back to ICE vehicles.
Fundamentally, while the purported catl battery is an improvement, it still is of high mass, physics and chemistry rule no matter what one says.
The more energy stored, the bigger the boom !
There IS carbon free sugar…it’s called Water.
The world will eventually run out of gormless virtue-seeking twits.!
But gullible morons seem to just multiply !!
Them’s the New Democrats.
the ora looks like the sort of thing one would buy as a golf-cart.
Totally impractical for basically any Australian situation.
You should read your own links, so you don’t make a fool of yourself… again…
Why does the advertisement say $40,990? (not 23K) for that tiny car?
Looks a lot like the Fiat 500E
Egg mobiles ahoy
massively overpriced. !!
LFP batteries. Safer, but half the energy density. We shall see. Doubt if that will change the equation much. You may get lower car prices, but the problem of weight for a given range is not going away – its getting worse. And you have the cold weather problem still. Very doubtful that will turn the market around.
The IEA note that “energy density is of utmost importance for EV batteries and is less critical for battery storage which is increasingly moving to LFP” but also note “Lithium ion batteries dominate both EV and storage applications”
IEA ‘A global review of Battery Storage’ May 2024
In past reviews of EVs they have often noted that the majority of EVs produced are SUVs for which LFP batteries are not suitable.
squeeze 4 people into that bubble-gum car… 10km range !!
Are these the Chinese vehicles with airbags that do not deploy, etc.? Based on your comment, I assume you have no education in science or engineering. You should get some before making stupid statements.
If they just launched this new battery then by definition there are exactly zero that have lasted 15 years or gone a million miles. They almost certainly will not enter the market until they have been rigorously tested for reliability and durability – a process that might take 15 years. There is also a need for cost-benefit analysis. A million mile battery that costs a million dollars is essentially useless.
They almost certainly will not enter the market until they have been rigorously tested for reliability and durability
I wouldn’t bet on that.
“Lasts up to 1,000,000 miles!” in the advertising (note “up to”), 50,000 mile warrantee in the legal copy.
Too much opportunity for a quick buck at the taxpayer’s expense.
That’s only true if your EV is much smaller and much lower in quality than the ICEV.
hmmm… a mini nuke the size of one of those batteries that will work for the life of the vehicle and never need recharging? /s
Cuba has certainly proven that ICVs can last for more than 70 years with regular maintenance.
The Cubans also kept those cars going without any spare parts either, amazing innovators.
I daily drive a 20 year old truck with 400,000 Kms on it that doesn’t use oil and is very reliable and my weekend car is 70 years old and drives very nicely but the old flathead does use a little oil between oil changes, which is funny as I never have to add any because the amount used is very small and the oil is changed every 1600 Kms. Flathead 8’s only have a bypass oil filter so oil changes are often. Both the car and truck will be used for many more years. I will go to my grave without ever buying a new vehicle.
My daily driver is a 41-Ford coupe. All original, restored. Cost $18,500
There is a reason why EV used prices are falling.
Yeah that’s because you’re not buying a used car you’re buying a used battery-
(42) BEWARE! Used EVs are CHEAP for a reason | MGUY Australia – YouTube
Then you listen to the fickle energy/EV fan club banging on about how V2G will fix their all their self made problems. Yeah riiiiight!
Tony, I have a ford C Max diesel run about with a tow hitch that I have driven around for 166,000 miles. It is 15 years old and returns an average of 40 miles/gallon (imp) of fuel. It is the most practical vehicle I have owned. It is simple to maintain very reliable and has never let me down, or induced range anxiety on long journeys. Why would I or anyone else want to change to an expensive high tech, high insurance cost, impractical heavy BEV, that can’t be repaired if it suffers an underfloor dent from road humps etc?
To put things into perspective. I also own a more prestigious SUV which only goes out on high days and special outings. The C Max is the favoured jump into vehicle of choice because it is not precious, has no image to maintain and does the job of shifting things around very well.
No one with a practical life style will choose a BEV, if they have to spend their own money buying it.
The latest batteries from CATL, should last at least one million kilometers. In an electric car there is no- oil pump, petrol pump, water pump, transmission, cylinders, valves etc etc- which is why the service interval is around 30,000 miles, at least. Because of the number of moving parts, many of them subject to high temps and thermal expansion contraction, the ICE is far less reliable than an electric car. They’re better than they used to be, but they are still always going to be more troublesome than electric cars.
Your previous post claimed a million miles, now you’re saying a million kilometres so your range has already dropped by over a third in a matter of minutes. Not unlike the lived experience of EV owners.
Apologies, it is 1 million miles, here is the link https://electrek.co/2024/04/03/catl-launches-new-ev-battery-last-1-million-miles-15-yrs/
Tony, just to ensure we are comparing apples with apples.
I checked with the Ford dealership on what mileage allowance they would guarantee for my diesel tank which is the equivalent of your battery or electricity tank.
They tell me it is not specified because they have never had to replace one. They even said if it wears out after a million miles they will replace it for free!
What do the battery makers expect to charge when their tanks fail after 1 million miles?
How many have they driven a million miles to prove it?
Don’t worry, they have computer models that prove it’s real.
There’s a vast difference between a “million miles” and 15 years…unless you drive 66,667 miles a year
LMAO, yeah I noted that 15 year cap – maybe they should have said 2 million miles! With a 15-year cap, what difference does it make?!
Even with an ICE car, it would be tough to rack up a million miles in 15 years. Considering an EV will probably spend a third of its time standing still (read: charging or waiting to charge), damn well impossible for an EV to do so.
The “average” miles driven per year that car insurers use as a “baseline” is 15,000 miles. That 15-year million mile cap would require almost 4.5 times as much driving, in a car that wastes an hour for every “refuel.”
Every couple of years, some scam artist claims a new miracle battery. They all fail because wishful thinking does not beat reality, no matter how hard you clap your hands.
probably a good way to get more funding
“Because of the number of moving parts, many of them subject to high temps and thermal expansion contraction, the ICE is far less reliable than an electric car. They’re better than they used to be, but they are still always going to be more troublesome than electric cars.”
That’s the same argument but forward in the 1900s; so why didn’t people go for electric cars then ??
The same reason as now … BATTERIES.
According to Consumer Reports, as of late 2023:
The survey reveals that, on average, EVs from the past three model years had 79 percent more problems than conventional cars. Based on owner responses on more than 330,000 vehicles, the survey covers 20 potential problem areas, including engine, transmission, electric motors, leaks, and infotainment systems.
Another strike on the list of EV disadvantages. There are at least ten more strikes.
The spontaneous combustion factor and self immolation perk too
I have a bridge and a Nigerian inheritance lined up, too. !!
Interested ??
I have some magic beans you might be interested in.
Hi Tony,
“Should?” How is that lifetime determined? Actual experience? Or a model? From what I can tell, it is PR about an emergent technology.
so why are sales going backwards?
Sales are limited by the availability of people who are both “green” and have disposable income to experiment with, and who haven’t already bought EV’s.
In the UK there are big tax breaks for fleet vehicles, which is why the majority of sales of BEV’s here have been to companies rather than private individuals.
so why are sales going backwards?
Apparently “because they proved so popular” 😕
But you do pay, up front, for what would be 20 years worth of Oil, Filter, Air Filter and Spark Plug changes (regular maintenance) as well as enough fuel to propel the ICV over 240,000 miles (12,000 year for 20 years) so the break even point is beyond 20 years. Cars like the Tesla X, when introduced, cost $86,000 more than a comparable 7 Seat SUV. $86,000 provides many decades of fuel and maintenance fees.
Then there’s that little issue of BEVs burning through Tires 4 times faster than ICVs
“Then there’s that little issue of BEVs burning through Tires 4 times faster than ICVs”
Baloney Alert
Yes.
They only wear out 40% faster than ICE tires.
According to Michelin.
Talk with Tesla owners much? The 3 I know need to have their tires replaced every 20,000 miles. My Durango tires lasted 80,000 miles before treadware demanded replacement
https://www.michelinman.com/auto/auto-tips-and-advice/electric-mobility-guide/understanding-ev-tires
There is a snowflakes chance in hell, that I will plug an EV into a charging point in my garage.
Even without charging, they still have a tendency to self ignite.
There are data to support the claim that undamaged batteries are good for at least 200,000 miles, with up to a 20% loss of capacity (assuming average loss of 1% a year over 20 years)
There are no data to support longer battery lifespans
Such as 300,000 to 500,000 miles claimed by conman Elon Musk
A BEV is not worthless if after 20 years it has lost 20% of battery capacity.
Only 1% to 2% of US cars are used for over 200,000 miles.
With BEVs you pay more and get less, except for acceleration.
Preliminary data show that fast charging (480 volt DC charging to 80% charged) has a minor effect on battery life — much less than expected.
A lot of ifs and assumptions in there.
Critically, battery decline is expected to be non-linear, with a significant increase in the rate of decline later in life, so you can’t take the rates of 1% – 2% that are being seen in the early years of life, and expect that to mean that the battery is still useable at all after 20 years.
They warranties are 8 years for a reason.
But let’s not overlook recent data supports EV batteries may actually be overdesigned . . . that is, they can work fine for about 4 times the average life expectancy of an EV operating in “autopilot” mode.
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 That doesn’t need to be very long at all. One the other day ran itself into an innocent telephone pole. Thankfully without any passengers.
The telephone pole didn’t have any passengers?
HaHa No the self driving taxi. 😉
Over 40 years, I have my doubts.
This is no EV on the road that has accumulated 10—let alone 40— years of operation in “autopilot mode”.
And the simple act of driving over a small bit of road debris is all it takes to damage the battery…
I don’t know how you define “small bit” but road hazards are one of the major BEV problems.
How about a Semi tractor/trailer shedding a small portion of a retread tire on the driver side at just the time you’re committed to passing
Or perhaps a fallen tire lug pocket up by your front tires and kicked into the undercarriage
Not even the dealers want to take old EVs as trade. !
RG types a lot of garbage, but I doubt even he would be STUPID enough to buy a 4 or 5 year old 2nd hand EV.
I could of course, have somehow underestimated his stupidity.
He has plenty to spare.
Just wondering about all those EVs in the mid-West and along the East coast that have been subjected to water flooding (while parked or while being driven though flooded streets) with the waterline ABOVE the driver/passenger door thresholds.
Liquid water has a tendency to “wick” everywhere due to capillary action. An EV’s battery pack itself may be “hermetically sealed” as is often claimed, but the connecting electrical cables are not so.
ICEs are less reliable than EVs. That’s great news. With competition from EVs, makers of ICEs are going to have to lift their game. That will be good for all drivers. But somehow that doesn’t seem to be happening yet. No matter, it will be great if it does happen. In the meantime …..
Less reliable perhaps, but you can usually repair an ICE, when BEVs fail it’s almost always catastrophic.
Say what you like Tonyx but here’s the rub with ICE warranties in Oz. While some like KIA will give the new car buyer a 7 year unlimited km warranty only Mitsubishi give you 10yrs/200000 km warranty provided they can guarantee the annual/15k servicing (ie via the dealer network)
So what’s the best you got with battery cars in Oz or anywhere else for that matter?
Tony they may have less moving parts but EV’s have hundreds of millions of solid state parts, transistors, capacitors, electronic sensors that are also quite capable of failing. I had a great job for 40 years fixing these supposedly failproof parts.This is all before we even get to the battery and it’s safety systems. The last water pump I replaced on a Ford 4.6L mod motor cost $45 only used 4 bolts and took less than 15 minutes to replace.
And up to 7100 batteries, each a separate potential spontaneous combustion source that destroys the entire vehicle and any structure it happens to be parked in under or near… charging or not
You could always charge them outside, and hope it doesn’t rain. 🙂
Like the Mercedes AA Class
should last at least one million kilometers
’nuff said
The ad says up to 1 million miles.
The advocate conveniently turns that into at least 1 million miles.
Even though the small print points out that the warranty is only good for 50,000 miles.
BTW, what do they consider to be the standard for “lasts”? Still manages to hold 1% of the original capacity?
If EVs are so reliable, why do they lose value so fast? Why are the warranties for them so much less than the warranties for ICEVs?
Why are you so desperate to lie?
By the way, maybe the drop is due to the withdrawal of subsidies. But that’s the point, isn’t it? Absent large subsidies, which are unaffordable long term, people are just not going to buy EVs. You don’t make the EV situation look any better by arguing that falls in purchases are due to withdrawal of subsidies. You make it worse.
Hmm, If you are a typical WUWT reader, I don’t suppose you’d have a problem with the 10’s of billions of subsidies for nuclear power plants. And guess how much subsidies fossil fuels get per anum? A very modest 1 trillion USD. https://www.iea.org/reports/fossil-fuels-consumption-subsidies-2022
Electric car subsidies are a drop in the buck by comparison.
Nuclear power plants actually PRODUCE something.. even make a good profit.
And will be needed to charge all the electric cars sitting in back-lots in China.
The buyer of an EV will end up with a huge LOSS, and a piece of junk that no-one wants.
Already happening. !!
Don’t tell EDF.
Investors are lining up for Hinkley Point. Oh, wait no, they jump ship despite state-guaranteed power remuneration and waste storage conveniently paid for with taxes.
By the way, how is waste storage doing? Guess not throwing it into the ocean counts as progress?
EDF had to be nationalized because they were nearly bankrupt – and all the had to do was operating reactors that were build and funded by the state. Now they have to get reactors offline because renewables are too cheap to compete. Or the water is too hot in summer. Or one of other million reasons their gerontopower goes offline unexpected.
Same with research – look up how CANDU came to be. Nuclear is a government project from beginning to end. And in a lot of countries a nice disguise for weapon development. Or why do you think “good states” panic when Iran and North Korea want to build nuclear powerplants?
Guess tripling nuclear will be easy, now that the free market wants to build those money-printing machines. But somehow, after all this talk and great announcements – nothing happens. As is to be expected in the industry after the 70s. The moment governments stop handing everything to them they are done for. We don’t even have to talk about the unexpected renaturation projects they can spawn.
SMRs are more of a scam than NFTs at this point. No need to write anything about them.
Only reason any wind turdines get built is because of subsidy miners and mandate scammers.
They are a parasite on any grid system.
They cannot power anything that produces anything.
Some SMRs are already operational, and once they are shown to be very effective and relatively cheap to build, that will be the end of wind and solar industries.
That is why the green wind scammer HATE them so much.
SMRs will be able to be built and make a profit, something wind and solar could only dream of
Wind and solar TAKE from society, and give nothing but high electricity costs and erratic unstable grid systems..
They are a DEAD-END technology..
China and Russia have successfully built operational SMRs.
Russia’s Akademik Lomonosov, a floating nuclear power plant, is producing energy from two 35 MW SMRs.
Other SMRs are under construction or in the licensing stage in Argentina, Canada, China, Russia, South Korea, and the United States.
You will always be a LUSER. !!
Oh and by the way.. did you know that everything in your poor pathetic life, is there because of fossil fuels.
Not so sure about wind turbines not powering anything that produces anything. In Fairfield the Budweiser facility is powered by wind turbines and They produced Dylan Mulvaney … A most useful tool for Meme generation
And how is the recycling going with Wind Turbines and Solar Panels???
Let me inform you in 2 words
Not happening!
There’s nothing environmentally friendly about Nuclear Waste BUT there’s also nothing environmentally friendly about Wind Turbine Waste or Solar Panel Waste either.
Other chemicals that solar panels may contain include:
The most visible element of Wind Turbines, their massive blades cannot be recycled and are placed in landfills however they contain measurable levels of BPAs (30-40%) in the epoxy that binds them together
The manufacturing process for solar panels can also produce toxic byproducts, such as: Arsenic, Hydrofluoric acid, Phosphoryl chloride, Carbon dioxide, and Sulfur dioxide.
When solar panels reach the end of their life, they are considered hazardous waste and must be managed as such. However, current recycling infrastructure is inadequate and expensive, so many of these byproducts end up in landfills.
Er, the Canadian Defence Force doesn’t think so.
Their commitment to the NORAD Modernization Plan states this –
Small Modular Nuclear Reactors for the Canadian Arctic in
order to provide the clean energy necessary to support NORAD modernization and to stabilize local energy infrastructure needs
Small modular reactors supply clean, firm, dispatchable power and heat in extreme conditions, with years in between refuelling.
All of Europe’s 5 wind turbine manufacturers have been operating at a loss since at least 2020 and wind turbine manufacturers are now pulling out of many offshore projects because they are unviable even at the considerable original cost.
Senate set to send nuclear power boost to Biden’s desk
The Senate is poised to send a major energy bill to President Biden’s desk this week, which could allow for more nuclear power to be built throughout the U.S.
The bipartisan bill is seen as a win for the nuclear power industry — making it quicker and less expensive to build them.
The legislation seeks to reduce fees for companies that are proposing to build nuclear reactors and establishes a prize that aims to incentivize nuclear deployment.
It also seeks to speed up the process for approving new nuclear reactors, establishing and codifying a 25-month timeline for approval.
Don’t go into an apoplectic fit, little boy luser and its little friend tonyx.
Oh look, it is the old Fossil Fuel subsidies lies yet again.
How many times does that need to be debunked?
When EVs are on a level playing field with ICE with no subsidies and ICE paying no Carbon taxes or EVs paying the same in taxes we will see how popular they actually are.
The link was to the International Energy Association. You can take up their estimates with them.
The link was to the International Energy Agency which sums up the amount of knowledge you actually have about anything. The IEA is notorious for its capture by science denying climate alarmists and now has zero credibility on any subject, particularly energy.
I just did. See my earlier comment in reply to your “IEA” comment.
WRT Natural Gas prices they appear to be conflating Subsidies and Artificially increased pricing from Putin
Funny how politicians become infallible once they something a socialist wants to hear.
Says the typical WUWT reader…
Tell me Tony, do petrol and diesel car drivers in the UK enjoy “fossil fuel subsidies” on the price they pay for petrol and diesel?
If so, perhaps you would be so kind as to define the “subsidy” that we are all receiving on our purchases of petrol and diesel for our ICE cars?
Lifetime Cost Of Small Car $689,000; Society Subsidizes This Ownership With $275,000
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/02/04/lifetime-cost-of-small-car-689000-society-subsidises-this-ownership-with-275000/
HaHaHa!
So free parking is now a “fossil fuel subsidy”? Don’t EV drivers get free parking too?
Try answering my question, not deflecting.
Motorized individual traffic is problematic either way. Car drivers are spoiled and still feel like perpetual victims.
Only perpetual victim I can see here is YOU, Luser.
Why don’t you just learnt to drive, so you can escape from your little ghetto prison. !
Probably not old enough yet.
How dare those plebes enjoy the freedom to do what they want.
As all good socialists know, happiness only comes from doing what the commissar’s tell us to do.
They didn’t factor in fuel taxes, which are negative subsidies, and they did factor in things like free off-street parking which aren’t subsidies. Government pays for infrastructure, including off-street parking, from taxes, ie, the public has already paid for it. Making it free to the public isn’t a subsidy, it’s just the public being able to enjoy the facilities they have paid for.
Places like Walmart pay for their parking areas, so they can have customers. !!
It is all counted in the price of what you buy. !
That assumes that CO2 is a hug net negative.
The science disagrees, CO2 is a net positive for the planet and for society.
The IEA report you lonk really struggles to find any actual subsidies. For example:
Those aren’t subsidies. However, what they do tell you is that there are countries that still have exise and other taxes specifically on some fossil fuels that do not apply to anything else. When the IEA adds up subsidies, they should subtract the fossil-fuel specific taxes to get the correct figure. Given how governments right around the world, other than the big oil and gas producers, tax fossil fuels, the total amount of fossil fuel subsidy would I think be a very large number. Maybe the trillion USD you mention is actually correct (with a minus sign in front of it)
Looks like Tax Breaks to me too
Tax Break – money the government says you Don’t have to Pay
Subsidy – money the government Pays You for doing or producing nothing of value
Exactly. I been saying the same for years.
Thank you for a simple and clear definition of the difference between a tax break and a subsidy. Unfortunately, Green idiots are congenitally unable to grasp this and will continue to whine about fossil fuel “subsidies”.
Taxes: Money the government steals from you at gunpoint
Tax Break: When the government does not steal all of your money
Subsidy: The part of the money that the government stole from you and gives to someone else.
Exactly!
According to the socialists, if you have any money left over after paying your taxes, that’s a subsidy.
Its price-gap analysis, its not accounting. Color me skeptical. I don’t believe, for instance, that Exxon or Peabody, or the buyers of the oil and coal that they produce, are actually getting subsidized. In the only terms that make sense, that is, accounting.
And color me skeptical for another reason. The oil companies pay tax on their profits. The price of gasoline they deliver at a UK pump is close to 50% tax. Tell me who is getting subsidized in this supply chain, how much, where is it in their accounts?
EV owners are getting subsidized by ICE owners in MOST countries because the gas/diesel taxes per gallon mostly go to road maintenance and EVs do not pay for that, period.
And public transportation in the US, and probably most other countries, is subsidized from highway gas tax funds. People like User@sshat are subsidized for their bus transportation by ICE owners.
And you know this statistic, how exactly?
Psychic?
…chic or …cho
Debunked, debunked, debunked again and just more lies.
Electric vehicles are a “Drop in the bucket” compared to the numbers of ICVs (2.2 billion globally) on the roads too
Are you one of those people who also say Cats kill more birds than Wind Turbines? I would guess … Yes. 500,000 wind turbines vs 600,000,000 cats with a factor of 1000:1 the potential doesn’t yet exist for Turbines to take more but at greater than 1.2 birds and 2 bats per turbine per year turbines would decimate the avian population if they numbered 600,000,000
Oh and a Tax Break isn’t the same thing as a Subsidy
Please don’t repeat the wind industry lie that wind turbines kill only one bird a year. Multiple independent studies show that the average wind turbine kills 500 birds annually.
No actual subsidies there…. Just totally legit tax rebates.
Fossil fuel companies actually pay VERY LARGE amounts TO governments.
The total opposite of a subsidy.
No such subsidies exist. Those lies have been exposed for decades.
There’s also the point that many EVs were being sold to fleet customers like government departments, NGOs, and corporations as “company car” inclusion in employee remuneration packages.
The drivers of these vehicles didn’t choose them, they just got handed them.
And why not? Other People’s Money, right?
In June 2023 even China had to extend subsidies for EVs to 2027 because of flagging sales, at a cost of £56.9bn ($68.28bn)
“The “plunge” was due to the withdrawal of EV subsidies.”
EXACTLY.
Subsidies was the only thing supporting sale.
Glad you realise that, twit !!
And in the UK sales of battery cars is propped up by tax breaks for business users – private sales are tanking. The elephant in the room is that the business cars are on lease deals and are usually replaced once the vehicles are 3 years old – there is also a mileage limit but I would be shocked if a battery car driver had the time to rack up a large mileage – at which point the cars are sold on. The poor used values will hit these companies hard as a loss of asset value – ask Hertz how that worked out for them.
Tha amusing thing about this is that in the UK people take a plug in hybrid at work, because of the tax subsidy. But they then just ignore the battery and drive it like a regular car, never charge it. Not very good for the electric drive train and the battery, but that’s what they do.
Yes, I saw those reports from EV dealers taking trade-ins of leased government cars where the charging cables were still wrapped in the original packaging, never been used once.
Fossil fuel powered cars (petrol or diesel). with an electric drive. 🙂
But still powered by fossil fuels.
In other words, no one will buy BEV’s without a government hand out.
Amusingly, no one minds you driving an EV around, it’s your choice. But in your typical illiberal, liberal manner, you want to force everyone to conform to your standards not theirs.
Sales targets are being missed across the world. Not by a little, but by a lot. In the UK a tiny fraction of the governments 2025 BEV targets are being sold and the market is only kept afloat by generous government subsidies for fleet markets. The general public are staying away in droves.
Governments around the world know this and are contributing almost nothing to the infrastructure required to support BEV’s. Businesses aren’t investing either as they see the writing on the wall which exacerbates the poor uptake of BEV’s. Indeed, 45% of householders here don’t have off street parking and fast charging is already more expensive than petrol/diesel even without the taxes associated with fuel.
Across Europe the peasant’s are revolting, in no small part due to NetZero initiatives, voting for right wing political parties which resist ideological progressive political policies which are clearly failing.
As we speak, Germany has lifted restrictions on ICE’s burning bio fuels in the future, which we all know is a con job as every fuel burned in an ICE emits CO2 with the possible exception of CO2 free hydrogen (which is a lie as every ICE burns a small amount of lubricant) which is a costly option that makes no sense as the cheapest production method is to burn natural gas to produce it.
Make hay while the sun shines mate. Even if BEV’s don’t have a limited practical life, they most certainly have a limited political life.
In other words, no one will buy BEV’s without a government hand out. Demonstrably false. In Oz most state governments have phased out subsidies, yet EV sales continue to rise.
And in a few years all those EV will be piles of unsaleable JUNK. !
False.
“Sales of electric vehicles in Australia increased by more than 160% in 2023 compared to 2022, helped in no small part by government incentives for EV owners.” – https://www.novatedleaseaustralia.com.au/electric-cars/ev-incentives
No rebates there.
MOST Oz state governments give EV owners money off every year for registration/taxes.
Sneaky how they (leftist governments) put the subsidies where ICE owners would never see them.
Meanwhile, you ignored every other subject I addressed.
And whilst you brag about EV sales, market share in Aus. is dismal. 8.4% in May and the trend is undoubtedly down from a June 2023 high.
Poor tonyx.. perpetually WRONG. !
Brain-washed ignorance runs deep.
“In other words, no one will buy BEV’s without a government hand out.’
Welfare queens.
Earlier this year BP reduced its Europe wide EV charging station division by 10% because of disappointing EV sales
Big mad.
“The “plunge” was due to the withdrawal of EV subsidies.”
those not buying EVs without a subsidy probably whine about welfare queens
“The “plunge” was due to the withdrawal of EV subsidies. They were withdrawn early because they proved so popular.“. I hope you are right. It would be great if EVs competed on equal terms with ICEs, because that would put downward price pressure across the industry and would benefit the public. Unfortunately, the data suggests otherwise, but we don’t need to act on that, all we need to do is to keep the subsidies away and see what happens.
Propaganda you, much?
If BEV’s are so wonderful and so obviously superior to ICE vehicles, why do they need subsidies?
Try this article:
Based on owner responses for more than 330,000 vehicles, the survey found that EVs from the past three model years encountered 79% more problems than conventional vehicles. That finding shouldn’t come as a real surprise, says Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports.Jan 8, 2024
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/electric-vehicles-consumer-reports-reliability-report/
Still waiting untill the price drops in the 15k range and comes with a free house, solar panels, driveway and charging station.
“free house”
You mean fireproof garage? 🙂
German ‘climate prognosticators’ have stated they predict an increase in severe weather events across the country of 3.3% over the next 3 months.
Most BEV aficionados also love wind and solar. Are they planning to charge their vehicles at night to capture the low electricity rates, when the wind seldom blows, and the sun never shines?
‘The figures for the registration of new electric cars in Germany are looking increasingly awful.’
Hey, I was thinking the reverse.
Most Tesla’s here in Queens and Nassau counties have TLC plates.