Essay by Eric Worrall
h/t MGUY; “We got a bunch of dead robots out here”: Drivers are complaining Tesla is not responding to complaints, despite being stuck for days in the Chicago Supercharger “Tesla Graveyard”.
The problem appears to be the Teslas are not charging, even when they are connected to a working charger.
Fox claims an automobile expert advised drivers to hit the “battery precondition” button on the vehicle before attempting to charge in extreme cold, but surely even if the driver forgets, the battery manager would sense the cold, and optimise the battery temperature without human intervention when plugged in?
Here is WGN’s take on the Chicago Tesla disaster;
There could be more pain to come for the Chicago Tesla drivers. Prolonged exposure to severe frost conditions can permanently wreck the battery, and some of those bricked Tesla drivers have been stuck in the cold for days.
Will Tesla customer service start responding to distressed Chicago drivers? I hope so – but in 2021, a Finnish Tesla owner became so fed up with Tesla customer service, after his battery was permanently wrecked by severe cold, he strapped 30Kg of Dynamite to the Tesla, and filmed a rather spectacular negative product review.
Note we at WUWT do not recommend blowing up your Tesla, regardless of the quality of Tesla customer service you receive. Explosives should only be handled by trained professionals, and Teslas contain large quantities of toxic chemicals. The Finnish Tesla owner in the video above responsibly removed the most toxic component, the battery, before detonating his Tesla.
“The problem appears to be the Teslas are not charging, even when they are connected to a working charger.”
Nelson – ha ha – YouTube
Regards,
Bob
It’s a preview of net zero.
Definitely a preview of their main design flaw.
They say…it’s getting warmer…especially in Winter
They say…snow will become a thing of the past
They say…we need to drive EVs exclusively to reduce warming
They say…all transportation needs to become fossil fuel free
If FF usage leads to warmer temps and warmer winters then
Stopping FF usage will lead to colder winters
Their proposed solution to transportation will lead to conditions where the solution itself no longer works in winter
I hope all this green stuff is just a passing fad, and all the kooks learn that it just does not work except in very limited applications and special situations. Not ready for prime time!
BEV’s are excellent 3rd cars in a Mediterranean climate, if you have deep pockets and don’t care about the devastation from excessive mineral mining. We are inundated with them here at Central Coast California.
“Renewable” sources have problems with the cold.
“Receivers” have problems recharging with the cold
Maybe the push to force us all into EVs is to prevent rolling blackouts for the rest of us?
Government is just trying to “help us”.
Like the German gov ?
NEWS TIP THIS IS LOOKING LIKE A MAJOR EVENT .
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2024/01/16/german-farm-protests-continue-new-shift-to-add-blockades-of-warehouse-and-distribution-centers/
Yep! Been going on for days. Farmers refuse to negotiate. Nothing but total capitulation by government on the issue will do.
How do you compromise with someone who wants you dead.
“Been going on for days.”
American news organizations are not covering this protest. Even Fox News has had minimal coverage so far. Nothing from the Leftwing Media.
I wonder how RG and Duane will try to spin this?
By telling the truth without bias as usual
EVs are a bad choice for many reasons
One is reduced range in cold weather
Another is slow charging time in cold weather
But they can be driven at -40F. and they can be charged at -40F. without damaging the battery
If you do not have a 240 volt charger at home in a garage EVs are even more inconvenient.
If you want to take a long EV trip, even in good weather, recharging will be an inconvenient waste of time.
In spite of the many disadvantages, BEV sales in the US were up over +50% in 2023 versus 2022 while ICE sales were up only about 1%.
I have recommended hundreds of anti-EV articles on my climate and energy blog. But one mention of the surprisingly strong EV sales in 2023 and conservatives go berserk.
There will be more anti-EV articles today. and one that details 2023 sales by brand.
I am anti-EV
Pro global warming
Pro more CO2 emissions
and’
Anti Nut Zero
I think leftists should be sedated or deported
What concerns me most is that fascism will be required to force the leftist climate / EV agenda on us.
The Honest Climate Science and Energy Blog
Can you provide evidence—any evidence at all—that either comment is true?
The juxtaposition of those two comments of yours is actually more hilarious than the above article’s statement: “Drivers are complaining Tesla is not responding to complaints . . .”
It’s true because he wants it to be true.
they can be charged at -40F
That does not appear to be happening in the linked article.
They can be charged, provided they are warmed up first. RG is trying to take advantage of the confusion caused by him referencing the air temperature and not the battery temperature.
Now that thar is funny.
Richard, you might have also mentioned high discharge rates in cold weather. A lot of leftists are already often sedated (stoned).
Negative votes for one statement? “one mention of the surprisingly strong EV sales in 2023 and conservatives go berserk”.: I hate seeing the proliferation, but I welcome being informed. My + vote got you down to 2.
Wow, it does not get much better than this.
The Washington, DC, perpetrators of these EV follies want to be re-elected to have power over you, to use more of your money, to do more of the same follies, “for as long as it takes”
All that is even more true, because the EV charging stations are unreliable, often are out of service, and to top it of, EVs are unreliable, have high repair bills, and have poor range in cold weather, especially when having more than one passenger, and some cargo, and going uphill, on cold, snowy days, as in New England, etc.
..
Currently, the vast majority of charging infrastructure is concentrated in more densely populated coastal areas, as opposed to more rural areas of the country, according to the Department of Energy (DOE).
Almost all people in rural areas, often with dirt roads, and snow and ice and cold, and longer distances, are definitely not giving up their pick-ups and SUVs to “switch to EVs”, especially in impoverished states, such as Maine and Vermont.
Their Socialist governments lost all sense of reality, and think money grows on trees.
Insurance Costs Very High: Because EVs are much more costly to repair, EV insurance rates are about 3 times the rate of gasoline vehicles, completely wiping out any energy savings.
Monthly Payments Very High: Because EVs are more expensive and interest rates are high, monthly payments are much higher than for gasoline cars, completely wiping out any benefits of tax credit subsidies.
Useful Service Life Very Short: EV useful service lives are very short, usually at most 8 years.
No one in his/her right mind, would spend at least $15,000 to $20,000 to replace a battery in an 8-y-old EV, which by then. would have lost almost all of its value, unlike a gasoline vehicle.
Charging Cost Very High: EV charging cost is very high on the road, usually at least 30 c/kWh, at home at least 20 c/kWh in New England
As a result, annual fuel cost savings are minimal, because EVs are driven fewer miles per year than gasoline cars, and the price of gasoline is about $3.20/gallon
Minimal CO2 Reduction: EVs driven, on average, about 72,000 miles for 8 years, according to various studies, do not reduce CO2 emissions compared to efficient gasoline vehicles driven the same miles, if CO2 evaluations are made on a mine to hazardous-waste landfill basis, and same-mile basis.
The useful service lives of gasoline cars is much longer than of EVs.
Range Usually Much Less Than Advertised: EV owners experience much less range than advertised by EPA, especially with one or more passengers, with some luggage or a heavy load, cold weather, up and down hills, on wet/snowy dirt roads, hot weather, etc.
Teslas EVs, driven 75,000 to 80,000 miles, will have lost about 15 to 20% of battery capacity at end of year 8.
If traveling with one or more passengers, with some luggage, was a challenge on a longer trip, and even more of a challenge on a cold/snowy day, then an older EV has all that, and more, which is a good reason not to buy one.
Battery Aging a Serious Issue: If a new EV, it takes about 1.15 kWh to add a 1.0 kWh charge in the battery, plus, there is a loss of about 5% to get 1.0 kWh out of the battery to the drive train of the EV, etc.
If a 5-y-old EV, it takes about 1.25 kWh to add 1.0 kWh charge in the battery, plus there is a loss of about 5.5% to get 1.0 kWh out of the battery
The older the EV, the greater the losses, plus the battery has lost capacity, the ability to do work and go the distance; all that is worse on a cold day, or hot day, heavy loads, and other adverse conditions.
Charging Batteries at Less than 32 F: If an EV owner parks at an airport, goes away for a few days or a week, upon return he/she may find the EV with an empty battery (if the battery had a somewhat low charge to begin with), if during that week the weather were below freezing, because the battery thermal management system, BTMS, will maintain battery temperature, until the battery is empty, then the battery freezes to 32F, or less.
Charging would not be allowed, until the battery is warmed up in a garage.
In the future, with thousands of EVs at the airport, a percentage would have empty batteries. You would have to wait your turn to get a tow to the warm garage, get charged, pay up to $500, and be on your way, after 8 hours or so!!
Losing Value After 3 Years: Used EVs retain about 60% of their high original value, whereas gasoline vehicles retain at least 70% of their not so high original value, by the end of year 3.
Losing 40% of a $45,000 EV = $18,000
Losing 30% of an equivalent size, $35,000 gasoline vehicle = $10,500
The loss difference wipes out any tax credit subsidies.
The below yellow line is mostly for Teslas, because they are more ubiquitous
.
https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/12342957670?profile=RESIZE_710x
I believe that statement is BS
So … you don’t believe the chargers were working?
Why weren’t they?
Another reason that EVs are proving to be unreliable. Wouldn’t these battery problems also surface during prolonged A/C operation during extended periods of above-normal heat? Yet there’s a certain segment of the population that is/was willing to pay a premium price to be virtue signallers at the cost of potential inconvenience, while actually believing these vehicles will have any effect on climate change.
It looks like EV’s are best suited for a climate that doesn’t stray too far from 70 degrees F.
At reasonable summer heat conditions, the main A/C effect is reduced range from the extra load on the battery. Death Valley in August would be a different story.
Oh dear.
What a shame.
Never mind.
and…
orrr.. diddums !!
How about, “Go woke, go brick?”
As a retired mech engineer I wondered how they could go down this road of battery powered cars, I suspected it would turn in to a train wreck…it has!
There is no train wreck
Although Jumpin’ Joe Bribe’em is close.
That is something to look forward to when too many EVs overload the windmill and solar panel electric grids.
Watching the last video l would get the same urge if l was a AWS owner. 😉
But staying on topic, if electic cars really were such a good idea then government would have no need to try and pressure us into buying them’
Ah, but the next pivot will be worse – hydrogen and ammonia powered vehicles will compete to kill us.
When I bought my current vehicle, the automobile salesman said “I’m looking forward to having EVs parked next to hydrogen vehicles”. I replied “That would be a signal, time to retire”.
If a new technology requires Govrnment subsidies, then by definition it is defective.
Great point, Graem…
I think about transistors, early airplanes, “personal computers”, televisions, microwave ovens and the biggest horror – an internal combustion motor for my transportation vehicle.
Gums sends…
Anytime a government tries to control private production, then by definition, it is fascist.
Markets control production. End of story.
This should do it. EVs sitting on dealer lots will get much worse across the midwest, where this weather is not uncommon.
I don’t know for sure that one weekend will wreck them permanently, the Finnish driver got a thousand miles of use before his battery warning lights started flashing. But I doubt being exposed to extreme cold while discharged is doing the batteries any good.
EV’s sit on dealer lots basically charged. A new battery has a low leakage current so will stay charged for months over winter. Problems only arise when need to charge them when cold. I suspect dealers would bring them inside for a wash and inspection, warming them before topping off charge before delivery.
A few years ago, I was working on a project that included lots of small Li-ion batteries. I think they were a few 100mWhs. Enough to keep our electronics charged overnight.
I spent some time reading a book on Li-ion battery chargers. One of the things I found out about these batteries from that book, is that the two things that are the worst for them, is storing them hot, and storing them fully charged. Hot and fully charged is twice as damaging.
Should be stored at something like 40% right?
In use, it’s ok to run the range between 20-80% charge but weirdly not if it’s going to sit idle for a long time.
Ok for electronics and garden lamps, to fussy and expensive for a vehicle you depend on.
If only life were that simple. Here are the guidelines from the various manufacturers. https://www.autovolt-magazine.com/how-to-park-your-ev-for-long-periods-manufacturer-guidance/
Every manufacturer has different guidelines. Here is one that struck my as onerous. For the Nissan Leaf: “Avoid exposing a vehicle to extreme ambient temperatures for extended periods to maximuse [sic] battery life. Owners should avoid storing a vehicle in temperatures below 23ºC for more than seven days.”
23 C degrees? I guess you can forget about parking one at the airport for a week or more in the winter for most of the US. I really hope that was suppose to be -23.
My sympathies go out to anyone trying to run a used EV car lot.
They should, but car dealers vary widely in competence.
If this is a problem with electric cars and their batteries, is it not also a problem with batteries in larger vehicles and also stationary battery storage facilities? If so, does any battery storage facility require heating and cooling in adverse weather conditions? How will that be provided efficiently especially in a battery farm?
It is a problem – I’ve had ICE automobile batteries permanently fail in the cold. But ICE automobile batteries are mostly based on lead acid technology, which seems a bit more robust than EV battery technology, and fixing a dead battery in an ICE vehicle is a lot easier. Breakdown services typically carry new ICE batteries and fit them for a reasonable fee.
And an automobile with a gas/diesel engine doesn’t lose any energy from the fuel tank by running a heating system to keep batteries warm.
As you intuit, it is and cannot be. Details, details.
“If so, does any battery storage facility require heating and cooling in adverse weather conditions?”
Yes, it’s called ‘parasitic load’.
Wind turbines have similar problems … temperature control, oil filtration & pumping, Barring motor to reduce damage to bearings when the wind stops, Yaw motors to keep head to wind. lighting, lifts; all ‘parasitic loads’.
Chicago just discovered lithium ion battery basics 101. They don’t work and cannot accept charge when very cold—cold generally meaning below 0C when Chicago was -30F. Trying for hours will eventually warm them enough to accept charge simply via resistive heating, at a cost to battery life.
Just like Hertz is selling its frequently fast charged Tesla Model 3s near battery warranty expiration after discovering lithium ion battery basics 102—frequent rapid charging generates heat that shortens battery life. Hertz ‘wash, gas, go’ M3 warranties were likely already voided by Tesla fast charging warranty fine print.
Yep, as I noted in the Hertz article, Hertz thinks they are only going to take a loss of $12,250 per vehicle. I suspect the reality will be they’ll have to give away a free EV with each ICE hire.
As I wrote in my comment to the Hertz Tesla post, Hertz made a fundamental ‘dumb’ mistake here in Fort Lauderdale. They priced them comparable to the Tesla store used off lease prices. Used off 3 year lease is between 20-30k miles in ~3 years and ~$21k. The two used Model 3s on the Hertz used car lot were respectively 92k and 93k miles. Huge difference in actual value thanks to the battery condition.
Public will eventually wise up.
Best option might be to trade used EV for an old yellow dog – then shoot the dog.
In the Detroit area, which is not EV friendly, a two year old Tesla3 will sell for about 1/3 below the 2021 MSRP. And that is with normal mileage which is about 10,000 a year. the 2-21 price was at least $46,000 with no options
Hertz is dreaming about their 50,000 to 100,000 mile used EVs that are 2 or 3 years old.
“They (EV batteries) don’t work and cannot accept charge when very cold—cold generally meaning below 0C when Chicago was -30F.”
Total BS
EV batteries do work in cold weather. How do you think the EVs got to the chargers, genius?
And Chicago has NEVER reached -30 F. The lowest temperature ever was -27 F. on January 20, 1985. The current low temperatures there are about 0 degrees F.
Yet they died because they couldn’t recharge.
Once again RG hopes that nobody notices that he is trying to change the subject from the batteries to the temperature of the air.
Just do not buy one of these types of cars.
Aww come on it just needs a software update and integration with charger availability app times. So the car knows when to queue up in line at the charger again so there’s plenty of charge left to precondition the battery and keep the owner from freezing to death.
Hehe – new recommendation, keep the battery above 90% charge in cold conditions, charger stop every 10 minutes…
Global boiling will fix this.
This should not be a problem because cold and snow are a thing of the past.
It seems obvious that a “renewable” grid in northern climates needs backup from grid scale bricks.
(If it gets to cold for them to recharge, just light one off!)
Didn’t truckers used to light fires under their engine when it got cold.
Maybe that would help the batteries. Toast some marshmallows while waiting…………
No need to light a fire, they self ignite……
An automatic marshmallow toaster. That’s novel.
Maybe build a warm environment around the chargers like a hangar. I never understood why EV owners like to stand in the snow, rain, hot sun, etc when charging their car .
The Russians did during WW 2 to get their airplane engines running.
Rosebud. A big, flaming propane torch to coax recalcitrant oil in the oil pan to life. Been there, done that.
I cleaned a truck terminal on weekends as a teenager. The diesel trucks ran all weekend to avoid problems starting. The idle rpm is extremely low on those vehicles.
Have you ever seen the series “Ice Road Truckers”? There was one episode where the rookie left his cab outside, turned off, over the weekend.
When he came in on Monday morning, he had to get it towed into the garage, and then set up electric heaters around it to warm up the engine. He lost half a day of work before he could get it started.
It seems that Tesla and their customers could benefit from Artificial Intelligence.
Or any kind of intelligence for that matter!
If you all want to know a lot more stuff about how messed up EV’s are, look for this guy on YouTube. MGUY Australia
Note the first two “words” at the top of this post: “h/t MGUY;” (and MGUY links to YouTube).
Mama says: Stupid is as stupid does!
Or could it be that they’ve been so successful in their fight against “global warming” that all their cars are now frozen!
This is apparently one of the reasons why EVs are sitting on dealer lots waiting a long time for buyers. People are catching on. Wonder What are the warmunists going to tell us now to rationalize this stuff?
Hilarious article scheduled tomorrow, apparently claims green technology is not fit for purpose are all disinformation.
To the left, anything they disagree with is a lie. And probably racist to boot.
Comment. How is it Finns have this innate capability with explosives? It’s like anyone there can and will competely blow something up if they want too.
Question. Doesn’t this Chicago debacle seem like a perfect springboard for a class action suit against Tesla?
I meant competently, though I suppose “completely works too.
They don’t have an ‘innate’ ability. Finland has 100% male conscription for national service of up to a year. That means that EVERY male Finn 19+ years old has military training.
I don’t think the mandatory conscription has much to do with the technical capability – I have active military service and training and I know enough about explosives to leave it to someone else. They just have this element of blowing stuff up. Now, their culture, that’s very influenced by their military legacy.
There is a simple solution, you can buy the cars you want but they all have to be either EV or ICE. You can’t have an ICE on standby to bale you out. EV sales would plummet and we wouldn’t have to hear about them anymore.
GIven how expensive EVs are, a lot of people don’t have the money to buy a second ICE vehicle once they have paid for the EV.
I wonder whether there’s a Finnish equivalent to the US EPA. The owner and the crew might be in for some prison time and a hefty fine.
All I can do is smile And work on my 350 Camaro ss
The Chicago liberal stations really hate Musk.
It appears only Teslas are having charging problems, since they could not bother to check any NON Tesla charging stations.
11th on the DDG search turns up NBC 5 actually at an Electrify America charging station speaking in general terms.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/electric-vehicle-owners-face-huge-challenges-amid-chicago-cold-snap/3328085/
Where is Richard Greene??
https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/01/16/chicago-ev-charging-fiasco-appears-to-pierce-proponents-claims-about-performance-in-bitter-cold/
In this article a person returns to the airport to find his vehicle dead. According to Richard, that could NEVER happen because of cold. His engineer friends at Ford say so. 2% a day max, IIRC was what he said.
I guess his chickensh!t personality is ruling the roost today, LOL.
Busy commenting on Bastardi’s Twitter/X
I read that article this morning and plan to have it on my blog recommended reading list today.
Nothing in the article refutes the claim of 2% to 4% loss of range for each full day parked outside in 0 degrees,
If you park an EV with little range left (unknown in this example) and stayed away for a long time (unknown in this example), then your battery could be dead when you returned. So could a lead acid battery of an ICE vehicle. Or there could have been a malfunction. Cars have been known to need repairs.
One fact you left out:
you are a nasty dimnit
To quote a true believer, YOU:
“I believe that statement is BS”
Your radical pro EV battery belief system is quite amazing.
Did you even listen to the news reports? I think not.
Actual people saying THEY RAN OUT OF JUICE WHILE WAITING FOR A CHARGER,
“you are a nasty dimnit”
LOLOLOL
RG seems to believe he should be the only person allowed to insult others.
The problem here is the notion that one particular, innovative technology, is suitable for all conditions and circumstances.
A heat pump is not much use in a hot, tropical environment; an airconditioner is not much use in a cold environment; a windmill is not much use in a relatively calm area; solar panels are not much use in relatively cloudy and snowy areas with little sunshine; hydro-power is not much use in a relatively dry area; BEVs are not much use during extremely cold winters; and so on, an so on.
One should always make a distinction between criticising the technology and criticising the inapproprite use of that technology.
A heat pump isn’t much use in a cold environment, either; they really start losing efficiency when the temperature goes below freezing.
In reading about this, some of the owners were complaining that EV’s work fine in Norway, why can’t they work fine in Chicago?
Ans: Oslo Norway in the Winter is on average about the same temperature as Chicago, but Chicago has more extreme temperatures in the Winter, and Summer, because it doesn’t have the moderation of a nearby ocean.
Just like Reykjavik, in Iceland, way to the North, has an average winter temperature of 31 degrees F or so, without temperature extremes.
Shame they don’t teach geography in school anymore. But, I bet they know their pronouns.
The greenies all think that Scandinavia is cold because it is far north. When Gov. WHitler of Michigan ordered that all new state vehicles be EVs I looked up the climate comparisons. Lansing, Michigan (43N) has a lower average temperature in winter than Hammerfest in northern Norway (70N).
My grandfather came from Hammerfest.
They should not call EV’s electric vehicles, just as they should not call ICE’s heat vehicles. ICE’s run on heat generated by burning fossil fuel. EV’s run on electricity produced by a chemical reaction. In cold weather, chemical reactions slow down, a lot.
The only way it would be legitimate to call an EV an electric vehicle would be if the EV’s ran directly off electricity supplied by the grid, but, nobody makes a cord that long.