From NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT
By Paul Homewood
h/t Ian Magness
Oh dear!!
Heat pumps are too loud to be installed in millions of homes under the Government’s noise guidelines, ministers have been told.
The Government wants to install 600,000 heat pumps a year by 2028 to hit net zero targets, but a report by sound specialists warns uptake could be limited.
The study reveals that most heat pumps are too loud for many homes in built-up areas, such as terraced houses and flats, because they would break noise limits set for homeowners who want to install one without planning permission and with a government grant.
Local authorities are also braced for a rise in noise complaints as more of the green appliances are installed in urban areas, the report seen by The Telegraph reveals.
The findings, which were produced by a group of noise experts, have been sent to the Government to contribute to a review into heat pump noise being run by the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Desnz).
Air source heat pumps, which are positioned outside a home, can produce a low constant hum of between 40 and 60 decibels which is similar to the level of noise made by a fridge or dishwasher. They will typically run continuously throughout winter…..
In order to qualify for the government grant, heat pump installations must comply with regulations set out by the Microgeneration Certification Scheme (MCS) – including a minimum level of noise disturbance to neighbours. It means a heat pump must not generate a noise louder than 42 decibels within one metre of a neighbour’s door or window.
Yet the report, which was presented to the Institute of Acoustics at a conference, found that of the top heat pumps from the five main manufacturers, not one device would meet MCS standards on noise unless the unit was at least 4m away.
Peter Rogers, of Sustainable Acoustics, said all terraces, flats and tenement buildings – equivalent to 47pc of Britain’s housing stock – would struggle to install a heat pump under MCS guidelines. He also said some installations in semi-detached homes, which account for 31pc of homes in Britain, could breach guidelines.
To meet noise regulations and receive grant funding, some homeowners would have to build a sound barrier – potentially at a cost of up to £5,000 – said Jack Harvie-Clark, of Apex Acoustics. But even if sound-proofing was installed, it may not be enough to reduce the noise to an acceptable level.
Alternatively, they could opt for a costly split system, where part of the heat pump is built inside the house.
What’s the betting that the government won’t just relax the MCS standards?
It wouldn’t surprise me now if the Tories finished third (Irish pronunciation is best) in the next general election.
Ah Yes, nothing worse than the Finnish Turd
Particularly to a hard core left momentum antisemitic Labour party
I think you meant:
“Particularly to a hard core left antisemitic Labour party movement“
The hard core left movement is called Momentum. Moderate Labour Party MPs were deselected by them and we got the likes of Angela Whatshername as deputy to Kier Starmer and he can’t get rid of her
What’s brown, and frozen?
My favourite in that line is “What is brown and sticky?” [Answer: a stick.]
What’s brown and is found on a piano bench?
The Tories are more resilient than y0u think. What we do not want is a revamped anti semitic extreme left wing Labour Party ruling us.
Sustainable acoustics?
How long can they hold the note?
“”a low hum
Holy cow; If they’re air-source pumps they’ll ciomprise a huge great big fan. maybe 18″ dia or maybe a pair of smaller ones at about 12″.
Sucking immense amounts of air air through a copper coil/radiator- all whistling and wooshing.
THAT is what makes most of the noise that modern cars do now.
By time a load of dead leaves get sucked in there, on top all the insect critters they’ll collect, they’ll be making make all the noise those high-power garden blowers make.
and any more than 5 minutes using one of those without ear-defenders/muffs and you’ve gone deaf
“a low hum”
sigh
For actual experience, sneak round the back of any supermarket or large foodstore.
There you’ll find the refrigeration kit that keeps things cold inside the shop and its storeroom
Just listen to that – because those are = air sources heat pumps and they make a hideous din.
That’s why they hide them round the back of the shop.
And as deterrent to light-fingered Irish Travelling Gentlemen. Determined to do their bit towards ‘saving the world’ by ‘recycling’ all that “Valuable Copper Metal”
Because that is what they’re doing already to heat pumps sitting in people’s gardens & driveways and because the pumps are not ‘part the fabric of the house‘ – they are uninsurable.
What a difficult choice for some of these “believers” – excessive noise or excessive heat! Glad I left those unfortunate islands 60 years ago!
Yet again, this is getting concerning, Proof of God
BBC headline”Omagh hum: Council could call in noise specialists
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-67410171
In a lot of if not all probability, it is A Cold Store’ as operated by farmers of all sorts these days.
Cold stores are also why ‘synchronous capacitors’ are required – to try fill in the craters that those things (and heat-pumps) make in the voltage waveform of any/all electrical grids when they first start-up
>What is Ireland famous for if not potatoes and all farmers now are required to ‘cold store’ their produce because wholesalers and retailers don’t want to any more and cold stores are = Immense Heat Pumps ##
(Gotta keep prices down you know)
Those cold stores also knock immense holes in the temperature graphs of any nearby weatherstations.
“nearby” meaning within 3 miles radius depending wind direction – the Urban Heat Island is not restricted to urban places any more
## In ‘serious farming country’ as I am now and on a roundabout on a busy main road, a handwritten advertising board appeared.
It was advertising portable refrigeration systems, presumably a heat pump on truck that a farmer might use to rapidly get his cold store down to working temperature once he’d filled it with stuff and then, his own modest system would maintain that temperature
You had a choice of sizes/powers, the smallest being 30kW going up to 650kW (of cooling power)
650kW equates to over 850horsepower – how much noise would a machine of that rating make.
While they complain of a ‘hum’……
Of course they will relax the standards. When you’re on the Highway to Hell you can’t worry about a few speed bumps.
Or, just introduce two-tier policing (setting a staggering precedent, of course!).
You’re not referring to the two-tier policing policy of our current staggering president are you?
“you can’t worry about a few speed bumps.”
Are you referring to Extinction stinkies and just stop oil slugs ??
What have I ‘stepped in’ this morning, it lurches from bad to worse
Grauniad headline:Millions of UK households forced to unplug fridge to cope with rising bills
here
>A typical fridge will/should use less than 0.4kWh per day.
(During my house move and because they were ‘on sale’ I got a portable RV fridge.
Runs off 12 or 24Volts, works an absolute treat and uses 0.2kWh per day when set to 5°C)
While the grotesque ‘clowns in charge’ around here imagine everybody will install a nymphaeum (##) which will, at bare minimum, use 8kWh per day
and that 8kW figure will supply one kW of heat over 24 hours = enough to keep A Single Room just about liveable here in the UK
Lord help you if you’ve got kids and need to heat an entire house
## FatFingersz spelled heatpump wrong and spellchecker suggested that – what a lovely looking word.
(No, I’m not gonna burst my own bubble by looking it up)
“Millions of UK households forced to unplug fridge”
That’s complete bollox and everybody knows it.
Yes, but it is the Gaurdian.
Oh go on, look it up. It will make you giggle as an alternative word to heatpump.
As an engineer what irks me the most is that air-sourced heat pumps are marketed like they defy the 1st Law of Thermodynamics, maintaining some magic level efficiency / performance, despite how cold it is outside. When in reality, during really cold weather, the majority of your ‘heat’ comes from the electricity the heat pump is drawing during operation.
This comes in two flavors:
In either case, you get the situation experienced in Texas a few years ago: A massive spike in electric load during cold snaps that the grid is not capable of handling.
When someone says to me “my heat-pump is 270% efficient” instead of discussing the Coefficient of Performance (at various indoor / outdoor conditions) I know I am dealing with some poor soul that drank the green coolaid.
Not disagreeing with you but wanted to add my own 2 cents.
I am in northern Florida (Lower Alabama) and it does get rather cold, at times, during the brief winter months. My 1,600 sqft house was originally built in 1939 and added to in 1970. When I bought the house in 2015, there was an ancient heat pump that ran almost constantly struggling whether it was hot or cold outside.
In 2020, I upgraded many things in the house like the electrical, plumbing, roof and insulation, especially the spray foam insulation on the underside of the roof. Replaced that ancient heat pump with a top of the line 20 SEER heat pump.
While I don’t have the instrumentation to accurately gauge power consumption, I mainly rely on what I have to pay each month to Florida Power & Light. Before the upgrades, the power costs could be around $200 during the hottest and coldest months and the house was not all that comfortable. Now, after the upgrades, my bills are in the $90-120 range during those hottest & coldest months and the house is much more comfortable year round. The thermostat is set at 76°F during the winter and 78°F during the summer.
“during really cold weather, the majority of your ‘heat’ comes from the electricity the heat pump is drawing during operation”
interesting– funny how they don’t mention this in advertisements for heat pumps
Heat Pumps and Noise
I have 40 years of experience heating and cooling a US upper-Midwest home with heat pumps.
We’re all gas now – no more “shortage” — and we don’t want to go back.
“can produce a low constant hum of between 40 and 60 decibels which is similar to the level of noise made by a fridge or dishwasher. “
I sell appliances including dishwashers. They all have a decibel rating depending on how much material is used to keep them quiet.
As a comparison, the lowest we sell is 39 decibels and it is quiet. The highest we sell is 65 decibels and we call it “the freight train”.
When greenies ignore the laws of physics and of unintended consequences, they go away.
Oh wait, they don’t.
Nope, ALL laws (including the laws of physics) are for the little people, not for the anointed ones, the saviours of mankind! sarc
What a fiasco!
The best laid plans of mice and men . . .
I can see it now: The constant hum of millions of heat pumps, and extension cords running everywhere for the electric cars.
Our leadership is insane.
We are living in an era where millions of people are caught up in a false reality. There is no evidence CO2 is dangerous, yet they behave as if there is. It’s Delusional. Especially since it is not that hard to figure this out. Common sense is all it takes to figure out that there is no evidence that CO2 is doing what climate change alarmists claim it is doing. None whatsoever.
The problem is most people don’t look into the matter in depth, for one reason or another, and depend on unreliable sources for their information.
If it was me, and I was in fear for my life from CO2, I would delve into the subject until I knew it backwards and forwards. I would want to understand the danger facing me. What I would find if I looked would be that I’m not in danger from increasing CO2 because there is not one shred of evidence available showing CO2 is dangerous.
This is a great video, and the guy really explained the “ science” well and goes into all the unintended consequences (as well as unforeseen costs)of government intervention. If one wants to save on heating costs. Heat smaller spaces or just heat yourself as he says.
Bah, humbug! Noise emission by heat pumps is NOT the main issue. The main issue is they are not suitable for a cool, wet climate, and certainly not for real winter (days or months below freezing) heating of a domicile.
Here in South Florida, EVERY home, apartment and office has central air conditioning (which is a heat pump operating in one direction only, whereas a “heat pump” can operate in both directions). There is no “noise” issue from a millions upon millions of outdoor condenser units for the universal application of central air conditioners to every domicile and business space.
Does it make being outdoors in a residential neighborhood super quiet – no. If you want super quiet you need to get out into a rural area. Is it an issue, that slight din of all these air conditioners operating outside homes, apartments etc – NO. It is less of a din than road noise in urban areas.
Heat pumps are not cost or energy efficient for the whole gamut of climatic conditions encountered. And their cost/benefit ratio is not smart or favorable, when you still need supplemental heating via electric or gas. That is the primary issue, not noise!
When I first came across this term, ‘heat pump’, I wondered what it was. I searched the internet, and found it was basically another name for an ‘air conditioner’, but there was still some confusion. Some sites imply that heat pumps cannot cool, and air conditioners cannot warm.
However, all the air conditioners that I have used, over many decades, have all been ‘reverse cycle’, which means they can either warm the house interior, or cool it, according to your selection of the options.
I live in a semi-tropical area which can get uncomfortably hot in summer, and uncomfortably cold in winter, mostly because of my old age, which is currently 81.
Modern air conditioners have remote controls which allow you to set the precise temperature you want, ranging from a maximum heating to a maximum cooling, and also allow you to select the direction of the fan which is delivering the cool or the hot air.
When the room reaches the temperature you’ve selected, the air conditioner automatically switches off (or goes into sleep mode), and then comes back on again after the temperature changes.
Of course, there is some degree of noise, both inside the house and outside, but that noise is no where near as bad as the noise of an ICE vehicle. (wink)
So you’ve basically decided to flagrantly ignore 90% of the article and comments because, in your opinion, you are right and they are all wrong?
Mr. Page: I have seen enough of this one’s comments to conclude that he is an EV enthusiast who wants to “upgrade” to gaslighting. He merely wanted to give us the wink at the end. In this effort, he shows his profound ignorance (“What’s a heat pump?” at 81 yrs of age living in semi tropics????), compounded by an inability to do even light research. His lack of research skill comes in very handy, because ignorance is required of the EV enthusiast. But I did learn so much about how modern AC units work. Not. He’s only worth mockery.
This article is about heat pump installations in the UK. Generally, these cannot cool a house because they are wet systems which work by heating water, either to use directly or for space heating. The UK is not even semi-tropical so we have little need of the cooling anyway. The control will be via a central thermostat, usually a smart internet connected one these days, perhaps also with individual thermostatic valves on the radiators or underfloor heating loops.
The issue around noise will arise where there are a many homes packed into a small space (a back to back terrace as we have in parts of England, for example) with the heat pumps all running simultaneously. Cars can be noisy, but generally neighbours do not leave them reving for hours a day simultaneously.
I ve been experimenting with the ( outrageously) expensive many split system that was installed over at my dads house just before he passed. Has 3 exteriors condenser compressor / units. Been planting bushes around them to try to cut down on noise and unattractive ness. As my Dad became more “ out there” in his last days he kept asking “ what is that noise, what is that noise.!
And at other times he kept asking to “ make it warmer, is that thing working! “
The LF noise and vibrations are just two health hazards from heat pumps – the cooler water is an ideal breeding ground for legionnaires disease and the cooler temps will allow black mould to flourish
I have a mini split (heat pump). The only way I can tell when it is is to look at the unit to see if the air vent is closed.
I have a mini split as well. In summer it works great for AC. In the winter, when the temps get well below freezing, it doesn’t work worth a damn, and when temps are are below about 5F it doesn’t work at all, plus the colder it gets, the noisier it is in the house, not outside. BTW, it’s a fairly new unit from a very good manufacturer.
Heat pumps may be no noisier than a fridge when new. After running several years the heat pumps produce much more noise due to wear on the fan blades from dust. Know this because we lived in a row house in Montreal where they were installed on each house for summer cooling. In winter they were bundled in plastic.
I have two outdoor split heat pumps with 5 remote indoor heads. The temperature here in Ottawa ranges +36C to -36C. I required only 1 or 2 days of auxiliary heat last winter below -30C. These heat pumps do not have built in auxiliary heat.
My total electricity bill averaged over the entire year is about $260 a month where the cost for electricity I pay is about 10 cents per kwh all in. That includes hot water/appliances etc also.
My 30 year old home is about 2300 sq feet. Its reasoably well insulated etc but nowhere near perfect.
My average monthly bills are actually slightly cheaper than my previous nat gas and electricity costs and the heat pumps are less noisy than my old house’s A\C.
As far as I can tell the only problem with heat pumps are the upfront costs. Which are 2-3x what I paid to replace my old gas furnace.
So they most certainly will work in most of where humans live. The costs however do need to come down though.
Mr. Smith: Did somebody say heat pumps “don’t work”?? I missed it. The article say the noise is an issue (maybe a result of over-regulation of ambient noise? Certainly the brits wouldn’t overdo regulating?), and commenters note they are not efficient, but nobody said they don’t work. Who are you talking to?
UK electric unit prices are 27p per kWh, which is getting on for 50 Canadian cents with a fixed charge on top. I guess the point you’re making is that heat pumps make more sense in a country with cheap electricity. No arguments about that.
The solution couldn’t be simpler, the government must stop mandating what appliances we buy. They do not know more than we do, they do not know what is better for us. The most useful thing we could do is cut government by one third. I would leave all emergency operations in place and force all others to cut their budgets and staff by one third. By the way you must cut staff from the top down, that will have a better effect.
I have a heat pump. I have to be standing close by to hear it.