Reader Julius Shanks writes:
Hydrogen Subsidies are Stupid
On Friday, 13 October, the White House triumphantly announced it is awarding $7 billion to seven “hydrogen hubs,” making the following statement:
Collectively, the hubs aim to produce more than three million metric tons of clean hydrogen per year, thereby achieving nearly one third of the 2030 U.S. clean hydrogen production goal. Together, the seven Hydrogen Hubs will eliminate 25 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions from end uses each year—an amount roughly equivalent to combined annual emissions of over 5.5 million gasoline-powered cars. The nearly $50 billion investment is one of the largest investments in clean manufacturing and jobs in history.
This is so stupid I have a hard time believing anyone thinks it is a good idea. For these reasons:
- Hydrogen does not exist in free form. It must be manufactured. That requires a LOT of electricity. Where does the electricity come from? Hold onto your seats: fossil fuel plants! No way wind or solar can provide this much juice.
- It is impossible to manufacture as much hydrogen energy as was used to manufacture it. Those pesky laws of thermodynamics. So the hydrogen energy cost will exceed the energy cost that could have otherwise been used directly.
- It is very difficult to store, because the molecules are so small. Hydrogen embrittlement is a problem in materials. And those tiny molecules can find the tiniest flaws in materials containing the. That results in leaks, which leads to reason number 4.
- Safety. “We regret to inform you your wife, children, and car disappeared in a puff of pale blue flame and water vapor.” Alternative: “An entire block was destroyed today as a hydrogen fuel station exploded in a giant pale blue flame and huge water vapor cloud.”
At least electric vehicle charging stations will not explode. Well, I don’t think they will.
[End Julius Shanks’s note, since so few actually know what ### means]
###
Here are excerpts of the announcement.
Investing in American Infrastructure and Manufacturing is a key part of Bidenomics and the President’s Investing in America agenda
Today, President Biden and Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm are announcing seven regional clean hydrogen hubs that were selected to receive $7 billion in Bipartisan Infrastructure Law funding to accelerate the domestic market for low-cost, clean hydrogen.
Regional Clean Hydrogen Hubs
Today, the President is in Philadelphia to announce seven regional clean hydrogen hubs nationwide.The hubs selected for negotiation include:
- Mid-Atlantic Hydrogen Hub (Mid-Atlantic Clean Hydrogen Hub (MACH2); Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey) — The Mid-Atlantic Hydrogen Hub will help unlock hydrogen-driven decarbonization in the Mid-Atlantic while repurposing historic oil infrastructure and using existing rights-of-way. It plans to develop renewable hydrogen production facilities from renewable and nuclear electricity using both established and innovative electrolyzer technologies, where it can help reduce costs and drive further technology adoption. As part of its labor and workforce commitments to the community, the Mid-Atlantic Hydrogen Hub plans to negotiate Project Labor Agreements for all projects and provide close to $14 million for regional Workforce Development Boards that will serve as partners for community college training and pre-apprenticeships. This Hydrogen Hub anticipates creating 20,800 direct jobs—14,400 in construction jobs and 6,400 permanent jobs. (Amount: up to $750 million)
- Appalachian Hydrogen Hub (Appalachian Regional Clean Hydrogen Hub (ARCH2); West Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania) — The Appalachian Hydrogen Hub will leverage the region’s ample access to low-cost natural gas to produce low-cost clean hydrogen and permanently and safely store the associated carbon emissions. The strategic location of this Hydrogen Hub and the development of hydrogen pipelines, multiple hydrogen fueling stations, and permanent CO2 storage also have the potential to drive down the cost of hydrogen distribution and storage. The Appalachian Hydrogen Hub is anticipated to bring quality job opportunities to workers in coal communities and create more than 21,000 direct jobs—including more than 18,000 in construction and more than 3,000 permanent jobs, helping ensure the Appalachian community benefits from the development and operation of the Hub. (Amount: up to $925 million)
- California Hydrogen Hub (Alliance for Renewable Clean Hydrogen Energy Systems (ARCHES); California) — The California Hydrogen Hub will leverage the Golden State’s leadership in clean energy technology to produce hydrogen exclusively from renewable energy and biomass. It will provide a blueprint for decarbonizing public transportation, heavy duty trucking, and port operations—key emissions drivers in the state and sources of air pollution that are among the hardest to decarbonize. This Hydrogen Hub has committed to requiring Project Labor Agreements for all projects connected to the hub, which will expand opportunities for disadvantaged communities and create an expected 220,000 direct jobs—130,000 in construction jobs and 90,000 permanent jobs. (Amount: up to $1.2 billion)
- Gulf Coast Hydrogen Hub (HyVelocity Hydrogen Hub; Texas) — The Gulf Coast Hydrogen Hub will be centered in the Houston region, the traditional energy capital of the United States. It will help kickstart the clean hydrogen economy with its plans for large-scale hydrogen production through both natural gas with carbon capture and renewables-powered electrolysis, leveraging the Gulf Coast region’s abundant renewable energy and natural gas supply to drive down the cost of hydrogen—a crucial step to achieving market liftoff. This Hydrogen Hub is expected to create approximately 45,000 direct jobs—35,000 in construction jobs and 10,000 permanent jobs. (Amount: up to $1.2 billion)
- Heartland Hydrogen Hub (Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota) — The Heartland Hydrogen Hub will leverage the region’s abundant energy resources to help decarbonize the agricultural sector’s production of fertilizer, decrease the regional cost of clean hydrogen, and advance the use of clean hydrogen in electric generation and for cold climate space heating. It also plans to offer unique opportunities of equity ownership to tribal communities through an equity partnership and to local farmers and farmer co-ops through a private sector partnership that will allow local farmers to receive more competitive pricing for clean fertilizer. The Heartland Hydrogen Hub anticipates creating upwards of 3,880 direct jobs–3,067 in construction jobs and 703 permanent jobs. (Amount: up to $925 million)
- Midwest Hydrogen Hub (Midwest Alliance for Clean Hydrogen (MachH2); Illinois, Indiana, Michigan) — Located in a key U.S. industrial and transportation corridor, the Midwest Hydrogen Hub will enable decarbonization through strategic hydrogen uses including steel and glass production, power generation, refining, heavy-duty transportation, and sustainable aviation fuel. This Hydrogen Hub plans to produce hydrogen by leveraging diverse and abundant energy sources, including renewable energy, natural gas, and low-cost nuclear energy. The Midwest Hydrogen Hub anticipates creating 13,600 direct jobs—12,100 in construction jobs and 1,500 permanent jobs. (Amount: up to $1 billion)
- Pacific Northwest Hydrogen Hub (PNW H2; Washington, Oregon, Montana) — The Pacific Northwest Hydrogen Hub plans to leverage the region’s abundant renewable resources to produce clean hydrogen exclusively from renewable sources. It’s anticipated widescale use of electrolyzers will play a key role in driving down electrolyzer costs, making the technology more accessible to other producers, and reducing the cost of hydrogen production. The Pacific Northwest Hydrogen Hub has committed to negotiating Project Labor Agreements for all projects over $1 million and investing in joint labor-management/state-registered apprenticeship programs. This Hydrogen HUb is expected to create more than 10,000 direct jobs—8,050 in construction jobs and 350 permanent jobs. (Amount: up to $1 billion)
Investing in America, Investing in Clean Hydrogen
Up to $1 billion of the remaining funding will be used for demand-side support for the hubs to drive innovative end-uses of clean hydrogen.
The hubs are covered under the Justice40 Initiative, which aims to ensure that 40 percent of the overall benefits of certain federal investments flow to disadvantaged communities that are marginalized by underinvestment and overburdened by pollution. Hubs have also submitted detailed Community Benefits Plans, including how the project performers will transparently communicate, eliminate, mitigate, and minimize risks.
To further support DOE’s Hydrogen Shot to reduce the cost of clean hydrogen by 80% to $1 per one kilogram in one decade, DOE has announced other resources to support clean hydrogen research and development.
I could spend days parsing out the issues with each of these politically selected hubs or the hubris of the DOE simply assuming they can get production costs down by 80%. The idea that they would even consider diverting existing nuclear power, from an increasingly unstable electrical grid, for this science fiction fantasy is borderline criminal.
Even if we assume the problems of embrittlement, storage, and transportation can be resolved, which is extremely unlikely, most of these hubs simply create inefficiencies for the sake of ideology, especially the West Virginia one.
Again, on the unlikely assumption that the problems of embrittlement, transport, and storage can be resolved, there may be a place in an overbuilt grid for energy to be diverted to hydrogen production in a demand response fashion.
This is the fantasy behind this initiative, an overbuilt grid and too much electricity.
California, with its daytime abundance of solar would be the most likely candidate and perhaps Texas or the Midwest with their heavy onshore wind resources.
But these overbuilt grids do not exist and will not exist in a time frame to satisfy the need of this insane command and control pronouncement, so strain on weakening grids will increase.
Blackouts to come, in addition to the massive energy waste of West Virginia energy sources.
Here is the Philadelphia announcement in its entirety.
If someone wishes write a PhD thesis on a proposed command and control economy, I can think of no better example than the U.S. National Clean Hydrogen Strategy and Roadmap
Update (EW): A Californian hydrogen fuelling station exploded July this year. By some miracle nobody was hurt. Hydrogen is far more flammable and explosive than natural gas and gasoline. The small size of hydrogen molecules makes hydrogen the escape artist of dangerous gasses.
Once again government subsidies for energy sources with no proven track records and not only a lack of reliability but also a considerable potential for dangerous results.
It only makes sense when you accept it is part of a plan to squander Western wealth.
The late, great Robert Welch explained this in 1974 – https://jbs.org/video/featured/robert-welch-predicts-insiders-plans-to-destroy-america-1974-speech/
Explosions are a sign that it’s working.
Look at the bright side
The eternal flame at Arlington Cemetery will be lit by HYDROGEN, the ultimate of political wokeness to honor the dead, who died to prevent others from controlling fossil natural resources
Just one problem, hydrogen burns clear. We used to walk around carrying a wooden stick in front of us to test for leaks and flames. Oh, and it tends to self ignite.
Lacking a stick, you could just wait till your hand starts to look like a pork rind.
Not to worry Ed, when that potential danger explodes the media has already prepared the narrative and as you might guess, it’s was all Trump’s fault.
Centrally planned economies have SUCH a good record, we just need to try harder.
“the 2030 U.S. clean hydrogen production goal.”
I don’t think someone under 30 has a basis to understand the quoted phrase (yet).
China did great after the US moved most of its big manufacturing there.
All this green energy insanity, I agree it will take more FF to build it than will ever be saved by it.
“Oh, the humanity!”
fireball ensues.
What a waste of $7 billion. But hey, the national debt is only $24 trillion. So it’s only 0.03% of the national debt. A billion here and a billion there. Who’s counting?
U S National debt is over 33.5 trillion dollars…..and counting.
Hey, it’s only money. Who needs that when you have love to keep you warm…..?
Here is what is catastrophic. The newly formed U.S. Government reported, in the first debt report in 1783, a national debt of $43 Million, which if adjusted for inflation amounts to $899 Million.
On December 11, 2007 Fred Thompson, during a presidential candidate debate to determine who would run against Barack Obama, pointed out, problematically, that our country was $9 Trillion Dollars in debt. A debt accumulated over 234 years under 43 president, by a mostly corrupt 2 Party political process that enriches the wealthy, and bribes the poor, with a middle class taxpayer credit card system.
Then Obama (2 terms), Trump (1 term) and Biden (3/4 term) added $25 Trillion in 15 years. And nary a squeak out of the press, as if this spending on a credit card was not a problem despite the crippling obligation we are passing on to many future generations. Now that is Catastrophic because it is unsustainable as discretionary spending and it does NOT account for medicare, medicaid and social security with are unfunded liabilities.
Is it any wonder that the Davos Dandies (WEF) created a virus in a chinese lab to target the Baby Boomers, that in retirement have become a massive drain on the system.
Good-deal, the inter-mountain west escapes the reach of the dictator…
And speaking of hydrogen, this idea might not be brand-new but is getting some recent press (story tip): Iron Fuel.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/iron-fuel
Yes, instead of burning hydrocarbons, you burn pure iron power instead. And how do you get metallic iron without using coke?
Green hydrogen, of course!
Note that the overall efficiency of the process isn’t given, but my guess is it can’t be more than 20%.
Nothing in New England either! Guess they know that they own our electoral votes, no need to pretend to create jobs to win votes.
New England- the Saudi Arabia of woke. Not counting the fragile elderly who have the $$$ to escape to Florida, which DeSantis calls “where woke goes to die”.
What, no cutsie acronym for Gulf Coast Hydrogen Hub (HyVelocity Hydrogen Hub; Texas???
How about H3?
Or HyHyHuT
How did they predict the future so accurate?
If the locals are smart, they will insist that these H2 generating plants set up shop in the areas which have the most strained power grids. Then, also insist that since the plants will overload the system, the plant must also build its own electricity source… a fossil fuel powered generating plant. Preferably with a LOT of extra capacity to plan for the possible future growth of green energy…. and perhaps to also provide some local electricity if the need arises.
Coal is just concentrated trees.
To deal with the safety aspect there’s a proven approach. Switch to helium!
Helium walks into a bar. Bartender says “get outta here, we don’t serve noble gases!”
Helium didn’t react.
Aw c’mon, it’ll work just as well as green hydrogen.
Let me guess. Helium’s personal pronoun is He.
Was He. now it’s tHey
Hee hee! 😛
Can’t burn helium.
I think it was meant to be taken lightly.
Of course, after all Helium is quite light!
Thanks MC, made me laugh!
You can in a nuclear furnace, but you need a star that’s begun helium fusion. Such stars are red giants. Our Sun has a few billion years to go.
Now there’s a practical application I hadn’t considered—portable helium fusion reactors. We’re making great strides, just a few billion years plus 40 to commercialization.
You mean it “doesn’t react”? Who knew?
That’s your truth.
1. NOT “government subsidies, rather,
CONFISCATED TAXPAYER INCOME.
2. NOT green energy, rather,
“GREEN” energy.
******************
This crooked scheme in one word:
EVIL.
How do you get 20GW of energy from this scheme? Easy, start out with 60GW!
Well as all things Biden/ Dem you can rest assured they all ( the whole corrupt swampish slimey lot of them) already have the deals set up to channel 10% to themselves. Hunter is probably already composing text messages ( or just use a stock generic threat. …. “ just remember my ability to hold a grudge between crack binges etc etc) . I just listened to Miranda Devine interview on her new book Lap top from hell.
Send it to all your lib friends for Xmas. If they still vote leftist and support the US Democratic Party after reading that; they are absolutely morally bankrupt an willing to flush the US ( and the world) down the drain because they can’t admit they made a mistake.
I thought it was more like those $19 per month donation things where $1.90 goes to the fund and $17.10 goes to Administration and Processing. Biden and the Dems are pocketing 90% and 10% gets distributed to their preferred recipients (aka donors).
Hydrogen hubs? Aren’t they a lot like lithium hubs?
Up to 1,500 vehicles in Luton Airport car park fire ‘unlikely to be salvageable’ (msn.com)
If that’s the brain trust’s idea of cooling the globe I’ll stick with global boiling thanks.
They’re doing their best to buy votes for Manchin via the corrupt bargain he voted for. I don’t think it will work. FJB
Manchin is trailing his Republican opponent in West Virginia by a large margin. He won’t be re-elected to the U.S. Senate.
That’s probably why he is considering running for president as an independent candidate. He won’t have a chance of winning, but he may pull some votes away from the Democrat presidential candidate. He won’t get many conservative votes because conservatives know Manchin is an enabler of the radical leftist agenda, voting in lock-step with the radical Democrats in the U.S. Senate. That’s the reason why his conservative constituents are not going to vote for him this time around.
If we end government mandates, subsidies and tax preferences all of our CAGW worries magically disappear. This nonsense has to stop.
Vote Trump!
If removed from your state ballot, write in Trump!
If railroaded on Trumped up charges, write in Trump anyway!
If you want to save this once great nation, Vote Trump!!!
And they play games with the write-ins. If there’s a circle next to the write-in, you must fill that in too, or they will claim you didn’t really mean to vote for the write-in.
There was one state that had a requirement that you had to write in the names of all of the write-in candidates, then select the one you supported.
The hub in central Washington State will use hydro power, or so it seems.
Regional Group Involving Douglas PUD Selected As Hydrogen Hub (kpq.com)
I am 25 or more miles from any such facility but when the blue flame goes up, I may be able to see it. 🙂
That hydro should be used directly for electricity or used as pumped storage for wind and solar, not wasted making H2. At least any sane enviro would do that. But it seems most enviros are crazy ideologues who don’t care about reality or other human beings.
Only if it is at night.
Producing hydrogen for transportation for fuel is a bad idea but this would be a good place to do it because of wind resource and the ability to balance it: https://transmission.bpa.gov/business/operations/wind/baltwg.aspx
Stay tuned for $70 billion for more Wind and solar as a down payment to help kick start this new technology (that could easily morph into much more). Anyone in favor of government guaranteed loans that like student loans will never be repaid?
“clean hydrogen”
Is there dirty hydrogen? I am getting very tired of this use of the word “clean”.
“Together, the seven Hydrogen Hubs will eliminate 25 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions from end uses each year—an amount roughly equivalent to combined annual emissions of over 5.5 million gasoline-powered cars. The nearly $50 billion investment is one of the largest investments in clean manufacturing and jobs in history.”
Crazy, crazy, crazy. Fifty billion to avoid the “carbon pollution” from five million cars. Crazy, crazy, crazy!
Crazy is right. Especially considering that there is no evidence that CO2 needs to be regulated or reduced. Every bit of this is based on a false premise: That CO2 can overheat the Earth and make the weather more extreme. There is absolutely no evidence that this is the case. But these politicians carry on like there is, based on nothing but speculation and assumptions.
This will go down in the history books as the biggest mass delusion/mass hysteria in human history.
And it appears that the only way this rush to the cliff edge will stop is when the economies crash as a result of this alarmist climate change stupidity. Let’s hope one example of a crashing economy will be enough to make the politicians change direction. But that’s not guaranteed.
“Is there dirty hydrogen?”
Yes. But that gets into the funding (dirty money), not the hydrogen itself.
It seems that all government schemes are designed to transfer money from the man in the street to rich people. In the UK HS2 is a prime example of that. It should be renamed H2S . It stinks the same.
It gets better: apparently ammonia counts as hydrogen..
but hey you get SEVEN dudhubs for 7bil
reading the older headers I see aus spends 53bil for? who knows
“Hydrogen Hubs will eliminate 25 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions…”
Hydrogen combusted in air = water vapour, the most significant ‘greenhouse’ gas without which temperatures on Earth would be too low to support life.
So… replace a gas whose warming effect, such as it is, is so insignificant it cannot be measured or demonstrated, for one whose warming effect is so significant it is critical to life.
That is entirely consistent with the mental illness that drives ‘climate change’ and Net Zero.
one report I saw noted that the subsidies provided by the government for hydrogen production exceed the actual production costs so producers can give the hydrogen away and still make a profit – your government hard at work
Idiots. Glad I’m getting old. I’ll enjoy these next 25yrs then get the hell outta here.
The news video shows Leftist government socialist-planning at its finest: The fueling company spokes-model said they won’t be able to meet government-projected demand so there will be delays in the bus service schedules.
Glad to have this challenged:
For fun I entered the above parameters, 3 mega tonnes of hydrogen per year at an investment cost of 7 billion dollars into ChatGPT and asked for a ten-year pay-off calculation for the energy that could possibly be generated.Question was at what consumer electricity price would the investment generate 7 billion dollar in ten years.
Annual production costs were left out intentionally because they’re free, right.
Anyway, ChatGPT suggested $7/kWh for break-even in ten years. Good luck with that.
Be sure and place the facility next to the EV bus parking lot and in between the abandoned biodiesel school buses.
Eliminate mandates, subsidies and tax preferences and we won’t have this problem.
I think the Califonia person in the video of the hydrogen explosion is confusing ZEV with EEV, elsewhere emission vehicle.
Hydrogen will detonate at certain concentration which would have leveled the facility..
That would be a EDHR, elsewhere distribution of human remains.
Talk about boondoggles, hydrogen is near the worst. It’s worth repeating — it takes more energy to make hydrogen than you get from it.
Hmmm…looks a bit smoky for a hydrogen fire. There must be something else burning. Was the truck fully laden with fuel?
Also, even without a fire the hydrogen should evaporate pretty quickly. With fire, it should rapidly end.