Extraordinary Costs Of Green Energy Creeping Slowly Into Public Awareness

From the MANHATTAN CONTRARIAN

Francis Menton

A key claim of the green energy movement has long been that the intermittent “renewables” — wind and solar — provide the cheapest form of energy. Therefore, the advocates say, just build enough wind turbines and solar panels, convert all use of energy to electricity, and sit back and enjoy a future of affordable energy without adverse environmental consequences.

Meanwhile a key theme at this blog has been exposing the incompetence and chicanery of the claims of low cost for electricity from wind and sun. Although it may often seem as if nobody is listening, I reassure myself that when the full costs of wind and solar electricity eventually get exposed, the people will catch on and not allow themselves to be impoverished.

Over in Europe, it looks like enough of the costs have now gotten exposed to cause the beginning of a public awakening. In August I had a post on how the costs of “green” energy were starting to change the “net zero” debate in the UK. Now, add to that report the results of the elections this past weekend in Germany and Luxembourg. In both countries, parties now standing at least somewhat against the green transition scored gains, while Greens lost ground. The process of ultimate political transformation looks to be long and slow; but I have faith that reality will eventually win out.

First, a short refresher on the claims of green energy advocates that the wind and sun provide the cheapest power. If you only read this blog, or other climate skeptic sources, you may find it incredible that anyone could believe such assertions. But you must remember that the self-designated climate advocates repeat these claims to themselves endlessly in an echo chamber where no one ever pushes back. Eventually, it appears, they come to believe that the claims are true.

And thus, here is my blog post from August 16, 2022, reporting on a Soho Forum debate on the energy future, between Steven Koonin and Andrew Dessler. Dessler, arguing for a future of wind and solar power, had as his main contention that those are cheaper than the fossil fuel alternatives, and therefore they will inevitably sweep the fossil fuel infrastructure away. Although he is some kind of leader in the climate alarm movement, Dessler appeared to have no clue that there was any counter-information to his contentions about the costs of wind and solar power. In support of his position, Dessler used as his main metric the “Levelized Cost of Energy” (LCOE) as published by investment bank Lazard. The LCOE metric is ridiculously flawed, and should not fool anybody, but seems to have fooled not just Dessler but also the entire green energy movement (and for that matter the entire Democratic Party and the President of the United States).

And nothing about LCOE and fraudulent advocacy based on it is going away. Long after the Soho Forum debate last August, Lazard went right ahead and came out with a new and updated Report in April titled “2023 Levelized Cost of Energy+.” Here is the key chart from that Report:

You can see right there that the cost (measured by LCOE) of solar PV is $24-96/MWh, onshore wind is even less at $24-75/MWh, and the cheapest fossil fuel alternative is combined cycle natural gas at $39-101/MWh. So wind and solar are cheaper — QED! But, as I wrote in my August 16, 2022 post:

[A]n LCOE calculation completely omits the dominant costs of generating reliable electricity using mostly or entirely wind and solar generators. These dominant costs are the costs of energy storage and/or backup, the costs of overbuilding, and the costs of additional transmission.

Meanwhile over in Europe, I doubt that many people are abandoning the green movement based on complex spreadsheet calculations of the costs involved. Rather, most of them are starting to face up to reality because of some combination of skyrocketing electricity bills and plans to ban gas heat and internal combustion cars.

The BBC reports here on the results of yesterday’s regional elections in the German states of Bavaria and Hesse. The swings in voter preferences were not huge, but still enough to be meaningful on the climate issue. For example, in Bavaria the BBC reports that the long-dominant CSU got 36.7% of the vote, and a second conservative party, the Free Voters (Freie Währen) expanded to 15%, while the Greens “slipped slightly” to 15% and the SPD (party of Chancellor Olaf Scholz) got only a “catastrophic” 8%. The BBC has this to say about the issues in the Bavarian election:

In an unusually ferocious campaign in Bavaria, conservatives and right-wingers railed against Berlin’s plans to phase out fossil fuel boilers and high levels of migration.

While this was not a one-issue referendum on green energy, still it is clear from the results that opposing green energy in at least some respects was definitely a positive rather than a negative among the electorate.

In Luxembourg, the swings were also mostly small, but included a gain for the conservatives matched with a dramatic loss for the Greens. Bloomberg reports on October 8 that the long-time ruling coalition of Democrats, Socialists and Greens got “toppled.” In a parliament of 60, the Conservatives upped their total to 21 seats, while the Greens went from 9 seats to just 4. The result is likely to be a governing coalition of the conservatives with other parties, but excluding the Greens, which could mean a significant shift in green energy policies.

Back here in the U.S., the Biden administration continues with its wrecking ball approach to destroying our energy economy. But as Europe is showing us, small changes voter preferences can change that quickly after the next election.

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Reply to  mkelly
October 13, 2023 8:14 am

A better line would be quadrillions once all externalities are counted and the reality that wind and solar installations will need replacing periodically.

MarkW
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 13, 2023 8:45 am

Everything needs to be replaced eventually. The key here is that wind and solar need to be replaced between 2 and 3 times as often as do fossil fuel and nuclear plants.

mleskovarsocalrrcom
Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2023 10:13 am

And because of the short life span (comparatively) of wind and solar renewables the replacement will be required geometrically and there will never be a stasis.

Drake
Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2023 8:34 pm

Nuclear reactors can last HUNDREDS of years.
Try 10 to 20 times as long.

MarkW
Reply to  Drake
October 13, 2023 10:23 pm

HUndreds of years? Really? Where did you get that number from?
In this world, most nuclear plants are being retired after 50 or 60 years.

Reply to  MarkW
October 14, 2023 5:21 am

Forty years was the norm for older plants, because that was the age coal plants were designed for in the 60s.
I designed both types in the 60s and 70s

Sixty years is the norm for NEW plants, such as the Russian nuclear plants in Turkey, Egypt, Bangladesh, etc.

Those plants can have life extension features to fully function to 80 years

In California, four standard nuclear plants, each with two or three 1200 MW units, costing about $6,000/installed kW, would produce enough steady, base-load power, to avoid the need for ALL onshore and offshore wind turbines.

https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/offshore-wind-is-an-economic-and-environmental-catastrophe

Each plant would need about 1000 acres.

Production would be 4 x 2.5 x 1200 x 8766 x 0.9 = 94.67 TWh/y, for each of at least 70 years

Required floating, 10 MW wind turbines = 94672800/(10 x 8766 x 0.4, lifetime average CF) = 2700

California in-state generation 203.2 TWh; imports 84 TWh; total loaded onto grids 287.2 TWh, in 2022, of which wind was 31 TWh

The nuclear plants would provide THREE TIMES as much electricity (base-loaded, or load-following, as in France) and last at least THREE TIMES as long
 
https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2022-total-system-electric-generation

Reply to  wilpost
October 14, 2023 5:29 am

Any LCOE numbers for wind and solar, are totally bogus, without adding the:

– Cost of onshore grid expansion/augmentation, about 2 c/kWh

– Cost of curtailments, and a fleet of plants for counteracting/balancing, 24/7/365, about 2 c/kWh, at 28% wind/solar loaded onto the grid, as in the UK in 2020

– Cost of decommissioning, i.e., disassembly at sea, reprocessing and storing at hazardous waste sites

US/UK 66,000 MW OF OFFSHORE WIND BY 2030; AN EXPENSIVE FANTASY   
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/biden-30-000-mw-of-offshore-wind-systems-by-2030-a-total-fantasy

Reply to  Drake
October 14, 2023 3:26 am

Most Nuclear reactors have been designed with a lifespan of about 30-40 years due, mainly, to the lifespan of other components, degradation from the radiation, extensive wear and tear. Some have been extended, with a complete overhaul and extensive rebuilding, to 60 years or a bit more but by that time the reactor is obsolete with out of date security and safety features.

Tom Halla
October 13, 2023 6:13 am

Someone is ignoring the effect of not being dispatchable, and using unreal figures for storage.

Reply to  Tom Halla
October 13, 2023 7:39 am

“Someone”. Remember the silent majority?
Most people are conforming, compliant, and ignorant… because they’re busy.
One day they will feel the increasing pain of zero carbon, and understand that it is having zero effect on the increasing levels of CO2. Then things will change.

Reply to  David Pentland
October 13, 2023 8:26 am

I think the silent majority already get it but the ruling new climate church is powerful.

Reply to  David Pentland
October 13, 2023 12:57 pm

One thing I’ve always been surprised about is that no-one seems to have cross-referenced areas of high energy bills with areas of food bank usage. I did some years ago and they do match up here in the UK. Certainly, in other areas, such as Germany, there wasn’t much food bank use until their price of energy went up and now they have about the same amount as the UK. Across the rest of the EU food bank use is about a third of either Germany or the UK.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Tom Halla
October 13, 2023 8:11 am

“Using unreal figures for storage”

The UK Royal Society produced a briefing in September entitled ‘Large scale electricity storage policy briefing’

“A study modelling solar and wind generation using 37 years of weather data found variations in wind supply on a multi decadal timescale as well as sporadic periods of days and weeks of very low generation potential. For this reason, some tens of TWhs of very long duration storage will be needed. For comparison the TWHs needed are 1000 times more than is currently provided by pumped hydro, and far more than could be provided cost effectively by batteries.

They conclude that batteries would only realistically supply grid balancing services.

Reply to  Dave Andrews
October 13, 2023 3:53 pm

And a Nuclear power plant could provide the same power “Stored” at less cost.

Reply to  Tom Halla
October 13, 2023 3:51 pm

They are also ignoring the decommissioning cost of these white elephants when the pass away. Very easy to find that most states do not require the owner of these GND Money Making Machines [most of which comes from subsidies] to remove these when decommissioned. It is left to the property owners leasing the space. Look up how long the abandoned Wind Turbines sat in Hawaii before the state had to pay the cost.

October 13, 2023 6:15 am

Lets hope the political class in the UK is watching and learning the lessons unfolding in Europe. I shan’t be holding my breath, however.

October 13, 2023 6:27 am

Story? According to this source, bit coin “mining” consumes 348 terrawatts of electricity annually. Is that what gives the whatever it is its value? It’s hard to be sure of what that actually means. It might be closely related to Walter Huston’s “labor theory of value” from “The Treasure of the Sierra Madre”.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk4GDuzZAM8

Bryan A
Reply to  general custer
October 13, 2023 6:41 am

Placing extreme and increasing value on anything intangible other than knowledge is pure folly.

Reply to  Bryan A
October 13, 2023 8:47 am

. . . but as most people know, knowledge is invaluable.

Curious George
Reply to  general custer
October 13, 2023 11:02 am

Please read what a terawatt is.

Reply to  Curious George
October 13, 2023 5:35 pm

Yes . . . one doesn’t “consume” terawatts, but instead terawatt-hours. Difference between instantaneous power level and cumulative energy . . . Physics 101.

MarkW
Reply to  ToldYouSo
October 13, 2023 10:30 pm

While that’s true, I believe CG’s comment had more to do with the size of the number.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us-generation-capacity-and-sales.php

In 2022, net generation of electricity from utility-scale generators in the United States was about 4,243 billion kilowatthours (kWh) (or about 4.24 trillion kWh).

If we assume the general meant 384TWh, than that would be almost 100 times as much electricity as the US generated in 2022. I haven’t looked up the electricity generation for the entire world, but if it’s more than 384TWh for a year, I would be surprised.

Reply to  general custer
October 13, 2023 1:03 pm

No, bitcoin has no value other than what it can be traded for. As an intangible, backed by absolutely nothing and being of no value itself, the whole bitcoin market is a bubble, in the financial markets sense of the word.

Reply to  Richard Page
October 13, 2023 2:06 pm

At least with a tulip bulb, you still have a flower.

Reply to  Gunga Din
October 14, 2023 12:02 pm

Excellent!

Bitcoins, and indeed all cryptocurrencies, are exactly equivalent to NFTs (non-fungible tokens). That is, subject to the “greater fool” theory of economics.

Reply to  general custer
October 13, 2023 2:04 pm

My impression of the value of “bit coins” has always been along the lines of the value of tulip bulbs back in the 1600’s.

Carnot
October 13, 2023 6:33 am

One only has to look at the bottom of the graph. Lazard and Roland Berger. I wish banks and management consultants would learn how to do the arithmetic properly. No wonder politicians loose the plot with clowns like this writing absolute drivel.

October 13, 2023 6:41 am

Story tip
The New York Public Service Commission denied a request for increased payments for offshore wind development. Good! Decision issued yesterday.

https://dps.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2023/10/pr23105.pdf

Kevin Kilty
Reply to  David Dibbell
October 13, 2023 7:25 am

This is good news. The Public Service Commissions will be a focus of the battle over this “new energy network”. Utilities seem to have the attitude at present that ratepayers should pony-up whatever expense the utility incurs. But this violates both “just and reasonable” as well as “used and useful” — long standing principles of regulation. If PSCs aren’t willing to make shareholders carry the burden of bad management decisions, then there is no market discipline and nearly no limit to what ratepayers end up responsible for.

In the worst case this would lead to the “death spiral” where big customers begin supplying their own power leaving residential, farmers, commercial users to bear the burden of the expensive system. More leave the network, and so it goes.

Reply to  Kevin Kilty
October 13, 2023 8:26 am

Yesterday’s denial for the offshore wind program, fortunately, was in advance of the projects actually going forward. Also just yesterday, my local utility NYSEG was granted stiff increases over the next few years, although less than requested, as described here.
https://dps.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2023/10/pr23106.pdf

New York faces a train-wreck energy future in any case under its absurdly named “Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act” (CLCPA) program of conversion away from fossil fuels.

You are right about what big customers could choose to do.

Bryan A
October 13, 2023 6:47 am

The ONLY things Cheap about Wind and Solar are…
Their fuel source
Their chintzy components imported from China

Construction…not cheap
Maintenance…not cheap
Longevity…not cheap (relative to FF, Nuclear and Hydro)
Environmental friendliness…definitely not cheap (massive mining)
Stand alone…not cheap (battery back-up requirements)
Ability to provide energy on demand…CAN’T

J Boles
October 13, 2023 7:27 am

Great article, BUT let’s not say Democratic party, but Democrat party. Don’t use their deceptive language. They HATE democracy.

Rod Evans
Reply to  J Boles
October 13, 2023 8:00 am

The customary spelling for them, thus avoiding any confusion between the scheming rats in Biden’s party and democracy is, Demonrats.

Reply to  Rod Evans
October 13, 2023 8:06 am

It’s worth mentioning that the customary spelling also avoids the customay swear words associated with the name.

Reply to  Richard Page
October 13, 2023 8:08 am

Argh not again – customary. Edit function, where art thou edit function!

MarkW
Reply to  Richard Page
October 13, 2023 8:36 am

An edit function
An edit function
My kingdom for an edit function

Reply to  Richard Page
October 13, 2023 2:09 pm

I sounded a lot smarter than I really am with the edit function!
(Thankful spellcheck still works!)

Neil Lock
Reply to  Rod Evans
October 13, 2023 10:52 am

My name for them is Doomrats. The other lot I call Reptilians.

Reply to  Neil Lock
October 13, 2023 1:22 pm

It’s pick your poison.

Reply to  J Boles
October 13, 2023 8:35 pm

I prefer the Anti-American Party or the Evil Party (the Republicans, for obvious reasons, are the Stupid Party).

sherro01
October 13, 2023 7:53 am

Francis,
There is large learning potential from constructing a “Real Operation” LCOE to sit beside the Lazard one.
Why has nobody taken this simple step?
Of course, such a LCOE graph would attract debate about which costs are valid for inclusion. You mention backup, storage, overbuild and extra transmission. Why has no economist added these categories to an LCOE analysis for an economy like USA?
There have been some attempts, but they seem to disappear among profuse arguments about factors like subsidies.
Surely it is possible to cut through the fine detail and publish a credible, first cut, pertinent LCOE. My apologies if one exists but I have missed it. Geoff S

Reply to  sherro01
October 13, 2023 9:05 am

Rud Istvan published one on Judith Curry a couple of years back. Don’t have the link to hand right now, but maybe he or someone who has it bookmarked will post it again. He referenced it in a previous thread here.

Reply to  sherro01
October 13, 2023 9:06 am

The problem is that it is a variable feast, depending in the first instance on the degree of renewables penetration, but also on local parameters of winds and sunshine and patterns of demand (particularly seasonally).

However, to make that point is to highlight that the costs start escalating alarmingly once supply starts exceeding minimum levels of demand (typically above about 60% of average demand), resulting in rising curtailment as capacity is added with the alternative of costly storage being unattractive until it becomes the only way to increase penetration further.

Charts showing costs going through the roof as penetration is increased are needed to get the message across.

Reply to  sherro01
October 13, 2023 9:19 am

But I think the real problem is that the method is wrong. Rud did as good a job as you can of getting it to give a proper result, but its not a legitimate method in itself.

What’s needed is not a cost per MWh, but the NPV of a given total solution to a specific situation. Get enough of these done and you can make a generalization. Do it, even in the best way, in the abstract, and you are only getting illustrative numbers which you then have to verify when it comes to powering (eg) the UK, or California.

The method is not very hard. I keep recommending Brealey and Myers, Principles of Corporate Finance. Its in the early few chapters.

Reply to  sherro01
October 13, 2023 1:56 pm

If that is what the elite thinks the cost is, then regulatory agencies should not allow more than this to be passed to consumers plus a 10 – 15% for shareholders. The east coast can kiss off any offshore windmills at that price.

John XB
October 13, 2023 8:03 am

Focussing on amount of electricity, distracts from the most important factor – frequency. In Europe it must be generated and transmitted at 50Hz (US 60Hz) with a strict tolerance of less than +/- 1Hz.

Steam powered turbines in coal and gas plants, with mechanical batteries (flywheels) provides robust inertia to smooth out fluctuations caused by load variations, and generators joining/departing the grid, or variations in the turbines. (Even when these plants don’t supply the grid having made way for wind/solar, they must burn coal/gas to keep the batteries spinning to support the grid frequency if wind/solar fluctuates, and/or to reconnect at short notice. In fact no CO2 emissions are saved.)

Neither wind nor solar can provide this inertia, frequency compensation being done electronically relying on the very current it is trying to regulate.

As… or if… more wind/solar replace the fossil fuels, frequency regulation will become more and more fragile leading to grud sector shut downs, or if lucky a cascade effect shutting down the whole grid.

On a day that it was boasted 50% of UK demand was coming from wind, such a failure and grid sector shut down happened because a gas generator faulted and left the grid, the fluctuation caused a wind installation to shut down and this in turn collapsed the grid sector, then adjacent sectors. It took three days to get it back up running.

And anyway – no matter how many more turbines they build, decades of experience has shown that the best performance is only 30% of plated capacity, intermittently, and unreliable.

Green electricity from sustainable sources cannot provide sustainable supply, and is therefore unsustainable. Don’t you love irony?

October 13, 2023 8:12 am

[A]n LCOE calculation completely omits the dominant costs of generating reliable electricity using mostly or entirely wind and solar generators. These dominant costs are the costs of energy storage and/or backup, the costs of overbuilding, and the costs of additional transmission.

Not to mention the externality of immense ecological damage by converting fields and forests and arid landscapes to industrial scale solar and wind factories. And certainly some negative impacts to ocean ecosystems from wind factories at sea. And, some neighborhoods will see lower real estate values if near industrial scale wind and solar factories. By factories I don’t mean where wind and solar structures are created- but I like what somebody in a recent essay here calls factories what used to be called “farms”. No doubt there are many other externalities.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 13, 2023 1:07 pm

I’m starting to use the term ‘array’ to describe groups of wind turbines or solar panels, rather than ‘farm’.

MarkW
October 13, 2023 8:30 am

Even Nick has given up trying to claim that wind and solar are cheaper than fossil fuels.

Reply to  MarkW
October 13, 2023 9:40 am

He still claims, without ever giving even back of envelope numbers, that the fuel savings justify adding wind and solar to a conventional system. He may have given up claiming that total wind and solar are cost effective, not sure.

October 13, 2023 8:42 am

Story tip.

Hmmm . . . I’m estimating that the costs of replacing ALL government-owned ICE vehicles (excluding military-specific vehicles, such as armored tanks, of course) at Federal, State and local levels will certainly be in the tens of $billions.

” ‘Currently the Department of Defense has about 170,000 non-tactical vehicles — the cars and trucks we use on our bases,’ Hicks noted.
“ ‘That’s the largest fleet in the federal government, next to the U.S. Postal Service’ “.
https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2022/2/4/military-wants-its–vehicles-to-go-electricwith-detroits-help

“The Postal Service has more than 235,000 vehicles, one of the largest civilian fleets in the world.”
https://facts.usps.com/postal-service-has-more-than-200000-vehicles/

So, just for starters, we’re looking at replacing something in excess of 400,000 cars and light trucks for just DoD and USPS. At an assumed conservative bulk-purchase, out-the-door price of $30,000 each (remember the replacements will be EVs, which currently have a premium price compared to ICE vehicles), these figures result in an estimated cost of more than $12 billion. Considering the additional number of current government-owned ICE vehicles at the Federal, State and local levels, I SWAG-estimate EV replacements of such will cost an additional $40 billion or more.

AFAIK, this is currently an unplanned, off-budget pending expense for these governmental entities. Where will the money for doing such come from? . . . that, of course, is a purely rhetorical question.

Anyone consider that this might have an impact on the rate of inflation/decline of the value of the $USD in the international markets?

And such replacements are scheduled to “be required” by 2030, 2035 or 2050, depending on source.

Of course, one should certainly scale-up this estimate to account for the average citizen’s burden of replacing their current ICE vehicles:
“Less than 1% of the 250 million cars, SUVs and light-duty trucks on the road in the United States are electric.”
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/evs-will-be-more-affordable-than-ice-cars-by-2032-in-the-us-study-claims-210384.html

That would equate to another $7.4 trillion USD (yes, trillions!), again assuming a conservative out-the-door average price of $30,000 per consumer EV. Even factoring in the fact that cars and trucks would be replaced anyway over time, if the EV-vs-ICE premium remained at around its current average of about $10,000, then the incremental cost to consumers from forcing an all-EV fleet would be around (250×10^6)*0.99*$10,000 = $2.5 trillion USD.

Need I even attempt to estimate the additional costs of the electric power plants and grid infrastructure that will be needed to support an all-EV fleet of passenger cars and light duty trucks across the US???

BOHIC.

MarkW
Reply to  ToldYouSo
October 13, 2023 8:53 am

If the enviro-wackos were willing to allow the government to replace ICEVs with EVs as the ICEVs are retired, you could cut that cost about in half. Then again, when have enviro-wackos ever been reasonable about anything.

On the other hand, you are going to need charging stations for all of those vehicles. Pretty much one station for each vehicle, since they will all be charging over night.

Going forward, the vehicle cost is going to increase, since the EVs don’t last as long as ICEVs. Also the resale value for EVs is lower.

And that’s before getting to the cost of insuring all those EVs.

ResourceGuy
October 13, 2023 8:48 am

By the time they realize it, it’s much too late. That also happens to be part of the design plan.

Curious George
Reply to  ResourceGuy
October 13, 2023 11:05 am

What a neat definition of “government”.

ResourceGuy
October 13, 2023 8:49 am

Where is the transmission upgrade cost, often to nowhere in the case of wind?

Mr.
October 13, 2023 9:42 am

The process of ultimate political transformation looks to be long and slow; but I have faith that reality will eventually win out.

A veteran (and venerated) Australian Labor Party senator (Graham Richardson) warned all political operatives many years ago that –

“in time, the mob will always work you out”

Phil R
October 13, 2023 9:58 am

I had a thought. Don’t know if it’s relevant or has been suggested before by anyone else, but I was thinking about the management or quality triangle. for those not familiar, think of a triangle with the following labels at each corner: “Good’, “Fast” and “Cheap.” You can only select two. If you want it good and fast, it won’t be cheap. If you want it good and cheap it won’t be fast. And if you want it cheap and fast it won’t be good.

Then the thought of a green, renewable energy triangle popped into my head. Imagine a triangle with corners labelled: “Green”, “Cheap” and “Reliable” then if you select any two, you can’t have the third.

I suspect there could be other appropriate labels for the corners. Would welcome any thoughts, comments or revisions.

Reply to  Phil R
October 13, 2023 1:13 pm

I don’t think ‘reliable’ should be on the same triangle as ‘green’. The green blob has taken great pains to make sure that no reliable sources of power can be seen to be green.

Phil R
Reply to  Richard Page
October 14, 2023 4:13 am

Thanks for the comment. the idea of the triangle is that you can only select two connected corners, but you can’t have the third. e.g., if you want it green and reliable it won’t be cheap; if you want it cheap and green it won’t be reliable; and most importantly if you want it cheap and reliable it won’t be green.

thallstd
October 13, 2023 10:04 am

The faster the transition to Net Zero is attempted, the faster reality will slam on the brakes. Missing from your cost estimates are the inevitable increased costs of raw materials as we devour known supplies of essential resources. And if the costs don’t put on the brakes, the availability of resources, the rate of mining, and the need for new power plants will.

From a thoroughly researched report from Simon Michaux called “Assessment of the Extra Capacity Required of Alternative Energy Electrical Power Systems to Completely Replace Fossil Fuels “:

  • over 220k new power plants (wind, solar, geothermal, nuclear etc) will be needed (about 5 times the current number) 
  • there are not enough known reserves of required minerals to manufacture even 5% of a single generation of “renewable” plants
  • if enough reserves are somehow found, depending on the ore, it would take between 189 and 7000 years to mine them based on 2019 mining rates
  • Summary of shortages:
  • only 10% of the nickel needed for geothermal, EVs and backup battery storage
  • to replace ICE vehicles with EVs and provide battery backup for wind & solar we have
  • < 20% of the copper needed 
  • < 3% of the lithium and 
  • < 4% of the cobalt, graphite and vanadium needed

His 1000 pg report can be downloaded here:
https://tupa.gtk.fi/raportti/arkisto/42_2021.pdf 

but is nicely summarized in a 45 minute presentation that can be seen on YouTube and Rumble 

Without alternate materials, Net Zero is not just costly, it is impossible.

October 13, 2023 10:35 am

Bloomberg’s green-energy research team estimated it would cost $US 200 Trillion to stop Global Warming by 2050. 

There are about 2 billion households in the world, that is $US 100,000 per household. 

Ninety percent of the world’s households can’t afford anything additional. That means about $US 1 million per household in developed countries or about $US 33,000 per year for 30 years. The working people can’t afford anything near that. 

The millionaires and billionaires have about $US 208 billion. A 95% wealth would cover it, but I doubt that will happen. 4 million more people die from strokes and heart attacks brought on by the cold than from hot weather, anyway.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-07-05/-200-trillion-is-needed-to-stop-global-warming-that-s-a-bargain#xj4y7vzkg

Reply to  scvblwxq
October 13, 2023 2:09 pm

This recent study shows that the cold weather we have every year causes about 4.6 million deaths a year globally mainly through increased strokes and heart attacks, compared with about 500,000 deaths a year from hot weather. We can’t easily protect our lungs from the cold air in the winter and that causes our blood vessels to constrict causing blood pressure to increase leading to heart attacks and strokes.
‘Global, regional and national burden of mortality associated with nonoptimal ambient temperatures from 2000 to 2019: a three-stage modelling study’
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(21)00081-4/fulltext

Bob
October 13, 2023 2:47 pm

Very nice Francis. Those pushing net zero are liars and cheats. Inevitably the light of truth will triumph. As I have said before, enlighten the average guy to the lies and cheating and net zero will go away. Electing different politicians is one way but we need to lead an aggressive campaign against these monsters.

observa
October 13, 2023 4:20 pm

Giles Parkinson, committed swooner over largely rooftop solar meeting 100% South Australian electricity demand on a random Sunday, depending on optimal weather and temperature, goes- Nyar nyar cop this unbelievers and heretics-
Nuclear dependent France extends life of coal generators to avoid winter blackouts | RenewEconomy

observa
Reply to  observa
October 13, 2023 4:25 pm

err….for an hour or two at midday on a random Sunday….

October 14, 2023 8:35 am

[A]n LCOE calculation completely omits the dominant costs of generating reliable electricity using mostly or entirely wind and solar generators. These dominant costs are the costs of energy storage and/or backup, the costs of overbuilding, and the costs of additional transmission.

  1. energy storage costs are included
  2. cost of transmission is the same for all.

what more important is the cost after subsidy because that shows you your future.

Its been decided.

observa
October 15, 2023 6:35 am