Concerns Mount Over Exploding Electric Vehicles

From the DAILY SCEPTIC

BY CHRIS MORRISON

Safety concerns around electric vehicles continue to mount with Australian fire and rescue services in New South Wales stating they might have to make a “tactical disengagement” of a trapped car accident victim if the battery is likely to explode. Australian journalist Jo Nova covered the story, which was first mentioned in the EV blog The Drivenand commented: “They say the first responders need more training as if this can be solved with a certificate, but the dark truth is they’re talking about training the firemen and the truck drivers to recognise when they have to abandon the rescue.”

The Driven, a widely-read blog that seems highly sympathetic to a rollout of EVs, was reporting on recent testimony given to the NSW Government’s Electric and Hybrid Vehicle Batteries Inquiry. The writer suggested that first responders did not have adequate training to deal with electric vehicle collisions, and in the most serious cases, crews could be forced to abandon rescues. One particular area of concern seemed to revolve around the need to extract a trapped casualty quickly after a crash by dragging the person out in a “very undesirable manner”. Fires are a grave risk in any vehicle accident, but they can be quickly brought under control in an internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle.

Worries about the potential dangers inherent in EVs is likely to grow as numbers on the roads continue to rise. EV battery explosions can occur very quickly, triggering the release of highly toxic gases. When they roar into thermal overdrive, they create very high temperatures and are very difficult to extinguish. The explosion can occur after almost any collision, or be due to a fault in the initial manufacture. The fire often takes hours to control and it can reignited days after it was thought to be out. With Net Zero fanatics desperate to drive ICE cars off the road in short order, EVs are the only mass private transport solution offered. Many of the issues, including safety, that make them an inferior product compared to petrol-powered combustion cars are often ignored.

Just what can be involved in putting out a fire in an EV was dramatically detailed in a recent press release from the Wakefield Fire Dept in Massachusetts. It was called out to deal with a burning Tesla on a snowy Interstate 95, and reported:

Wakefield Engine 1 and Ladder 1 initiated suppression operations, applying copious amounts of water onto the vehicle. Multiple surrounding mutual aid communities responded as well to support firefighting operations and to create a water shuttle to bring water continually to the scene. Engines from Melrose, Stoneham, Reading, Lynnfield as well as a Middleton water tanker assisted. Firefighters had three 1¾-inch hand lines as well as a ‘blitz gun’ in operation to cool the battery compartment… Lynnfield crews established a continuous 4-inch supply line from Vernon Street up to the highway. The fire was declared under control and fully extinguished after about two and a half hours… The vehicle was removed from the scene after consulting with the Hazmat Unit… The crews did a great job, especially in the middle of storm conditions – on a busy highway.

There is little doubt that EV fires are on the rise. In the U.K., CE Safety runs Freedom of Information checks on local fire brigades and its latest survey shows an alarming rise in conflagrations. In Greater London in the 2017-2022 period, there were a reported 507 battery fires from a number of EV types, but CE Safety found a “gigantic” 219 conflagrations in 2022-23 alone. Lancashire was said to rank second with 15 EV battery fires, but this was 10 more in a single year than recorded in the five years between 2017-2022. Overall “it was concerning” to discover that the number of electric battery fires during 2022-2023 was higher in most areas than the data showed over five years from 2017 to 2022. During that year, 14 buses suffered battery fires.

There was a substantial increase in the number of e-bikes catching fire, with CE Safety noting that lithium is highly flammable and reactive. “Over-charging presents a massive risk to households with lithium-powered vehicles,” the safety organisation observed.

Concern is also rising over the transportation of EVs on car ferries. Recently, Havila Kystruten, which operates a fleet of car ferries around the coast of Norway, has banned the transportation of electric, hybrid and hydrogen vehicles. According to a report in the Maritime Executive, it is the latest step by the shipping industry, “which has become acutely aware of the increasing danger of transporting EV and other alternate fuel vessels”.

Havila’s Managing Director Bent Martini said a risk analysis had shown a fire at sea in a fossil fuel vehicle could be handled by on-board systems. “A possible fire in electric, hybrid or hydrogen cars will require external rescue efforts and could put people on board and the ships at risk,” he said. That of course is the nightmare scenario. If fire breaks out on a ferry making a 20-mile crossing in good weather, the chances of all passengers and crew surviving are good. Less good, perhaps, if fire was to break out and fill the ship with toxic smoke in the middle of a stormy November night while crossing the Bay of Biscay. Chances of survival would be diminished if the high temperatures caused nearby EVs to explode.

Mercifully, we are less and less likely to see such accidents. The list of disadvantages of EVs is lengthening by the day. Environmental concerns about the manufacture and mining of raw materials have been raised, while ‘range anxiety’ is common among drivers. EVs are more expensive than ICE cars, while knackered batteries mean that second-hand values are very poor. For those who would see the back of them, the graph below might provide some comfort.

This shows the recent decline in the share price of the American car hire giant Hertz. Back in 2021, the company pushed ahead with huge purchases of Teslas. In January it dumped 20,000 of them, and last month pushed another 10,000 onto a sagging second-hand market. Out in the real world – the world where people create wealth by providing what other people actually want – fewer drivers seemed willing to hire them. The share price tells its own sorry story. Meanwhile, EV sales across Europe tend to be driven by unsustainable tax breaks, while the cars are mainly popular with wealthy people as a second or third city runabout. An enforced political adoption of EVs is likely to destroy vast swathes of the European car industry, unable to compete with cheap Chinese imports.

If the aim is to take away personal transport for the masses, EVs are an excellent idea. Whether that will ultimately play well at the ballot box is another matter.

Chris Morrison is the Daily Sceptic’s Environment Editor.

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leefor
May 9, 2024 10:05 pm

Hazmat suits can be worn. That does not mitigate explosion, only toxic gases.

Stand at least 60 metres upwind.

Reply to  leefor
May 10, 2024 3:28 am

They may be required to be worn by everyone in an EV. I heard the EPA is working on this requirement. 🙂

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  leefor
May 10, 2024 6:40 am

Maybe extricate passengers with a fishing pole…

Reply to  leefor
May 10, 2024 8:25 am

Most fire departments don’t have hazmat suits – that would require calling in a hazmat team. Which probably should be done (even though it isn’t from what I’ve read)

leefor
Reply to  Tony_G
May 10, 2024 8:13 pm

Our rural fire brigade has BA gear.

Reply to  leefor
May 10, 2024 12:11 pm

Are hazmat suits fire resistant, I don’t think so. Nothing worse than your clothing melting onto you in a fire situation.

Reply to  Nansar07
May 10, 2024 1:04 pm

Are hazmat suits fire resistant

They are not. Normally, turnout gear is worn underneath them (along with SCBA fully contained in the suit) so you’re still protected from heat, but if they melt they’re not going to do much good.

mikeq
May 9, 2024 10:24 pm

Someone is going to point out that ICE vehicles have more fire. This is true, but those who make this objection are failing or refusing to see the critical issue; that is, each EV fire is far more intense, releases more toxic gases, is a far greater fire hazard to nearby vehicles and structures, and requires far more time and resources and specialist training to control.
.
And this is reported to be a serious problem by professional fire protection engineers now, even with relatively low proportion of EVs on the roads. So how serious will it be when/if EV’s become the dominant type of vehicle?

Reply to  mikeq
May 9, 2024 11:14 pm

I think total fires spit by EV:ICE is not the key metric

surely we should normalise the numbers. Fires per 100,000 vehicles or per 100,00 miles driven perhaps?

MarkW
Reply to  Hysteria
May 10, 2024 1:40 pm

You also have account for the average age of the vehicles.
ICEVs have been around for a lot longer and the average age of all cars on the road is much higher than the average age of EVs on the road.
This gets even more severe when you consider the average number of miles already driven for each type of vehicle, as EVs drive a lot fewer miles per year.

Reply to  Hysteria
May 10, 2024 1:40 pm

And subtract out the cars deliberately torched. I’ve read that about 40% of stolen cars are eventually burned when abandoned.

Ralph
Reply to  mikeq
May 10, 2024 2:36 am

How many times more ICE vehicles are on the roads compared to EV’s?
Little known fact??

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Ralph
May 10, 2024 8:44 am

According to the IEA almost 14m EVs were sold in 2023 but they were still only 18% of all cars sold.

60% of the sales were in China, 25% in Europe and 5% in the US. Thus only 5% were sold in ROW – eg India, Indonesia and Malaysia only 2% of sales, Brazil 3%

To give some perspective there are currently around 1.4 billion ICEVs worldwide. and c. 77m non electric cars were sold in 2023.

IEA ‘Global EV Outlook 2024’ (April 2024)

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Dave Andrews
May 11, 2024 6:21 am

Drat! re sales of EVs that should have read China 60%, Europe 25%, USA 10%.

Reply to  mikeq
May 10, 2024 4:32 am

Everyone is missing a key metric regards EV vs ICE fires, detailed in the above article. That is how difficult it is to extinguish an EV fire compared with an ICE fire. The article above states it took 3 1.75″ hoses plus a “blitz gun” nozzle running for 2.5 hours to extinguish the EV fire. I don’t know about down under, but here, having direct experience fighting fires, a 1.5″ fire hose run off a pumper truck pressure delivers 120 gallons per minute. The blitz gun at least that much. So 4 x 120 gpm x 150 minutes is 72,000 gallons of water.

Now contrast that to being able to extinguish a fully involved ICE car fire with less than 1,000 gallons carried in typical pumper truck tanks, and you have a sense of why there exists a serious problem with EV fires!

Reply to  D Boss
May 10, 2024 5:37 am

One car required the resources of at least 4 different fire departments.

Reply to  karlomonte
May 10, 2024 8:27 am

Every car fire I’ve responded to required the resources of one truck and 4-5 firefighters (one on the truck, one on the hose, two for traffic control)

Red
Reply to  mikeq
May 10, 2024 4:51 am

You also need to account for a lot of ICE fires being due to arson after a joy ride. Unless the fire causes are separated out the fire numbers are meaningless.

Reply to  Red
May 10, 2024 5:26 am

Exactly… how many times does an ICE car catch fire while simply sitting parked or driving normally down the road? Or even while being refueled??

Ex-KaliforniaKook
Reply to  mikeq
May 10, 2024 7:55 am

Car & Driver debunked the claim on ICE fires being more prevalent (per 100,000 vehicles) a few months ago. The original claim was based on “NTSB data” – but the NTSB said they don’t gather that information. There is no legitimate source for automobile fires – EVs or ICE powered.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  mikeq
May 10, 2024 11:14 am

EV fires are less common than ICEV fires because of the proportion of vehicles in the fleet. Another confounding factor is that vehicle fires occur 75% of the time in older vehicles. The average US vehicle is as old as the first modern EVs sold in quantity. That said, EVs burn about 6 times as often as ICEVs.

Reply to  mikeq
May 10, 2024 11:34 am

Lithium Batteries have the oxidizer present in the same housing (the battery)….whereas gasoline can only burn as fast as air can get to it, resulting in gasoline fires being much easier to fight, and Li fires being much easier to watch burn…

Reply to  mikeq
May 10, 2024 3:53 pm

I suspect it is very much the opposite if counted as vehicle fires by % of types on the road.

Bob
May 9, 2024 10:24 pm

EVs are a bad thing, governments are criminal for mandating them. Tobacco was never mandated.

Rod Evans
May 9, 2024 11:18 pm

If the only option mandated for personal transport is one you can’t use and certainly don’t want, then that will certainly prevent personal transport ownership.
As the article says, EVs are the perfect option to stop personal transport usage.
Sadly we don’t have any busses running around the roads where I live and the trains were closed down back in the 1960s.
Providing the EU rules that our government here in the UK still follow religiously do not ban the repair of ICE powered cars I am reasonably confident my diesel cars will take me through to the days when a mobility scooter is required.
Unfortunately I am hearing stories about older vehicles being banned from the roads irrespective of their condition or use-ability. The bureaucrats never know when to stop helping us out of our happy contented lives.

Reply to  Rod Evans
May 9, 2024 11:58 pm

“I am reasonably confident my diesel cars will take me through to the days when a mobility scooter is required.”
__________________________________________________________________

So where do you plan to get the diesel fuel?
“They” want to ban that too you know.

paul courtney
Reply to  Steve Case
May 10, 2024 6:34 am

Mr. Case: Good point, the same thought applies to the great gas appliance cancellation. Biden’s army of bureaucrats are using this to kick up a fracas over here, while over there they are planning to shut off the gas! Then they will not stop you from owning a gas waterheater, after they shut down supplies.

Reply to  Steve Case
May 10, 2024 1:45 pm

They don’t have to be guilty of authoritarianism to get rid of fossil fuels. No ban is necessary. A $200/gallon tax on it should be sufficient. They fan even run for office swearing they will never ban the fuels.

Rod Evans
Reply to  Steve Case
May 11, 2024 12:06 am

Steve,
I am thinking about making my own biodiesel. This option only works while they maintain their position that bio fuel is green. That may or may not be acceptable in the upcoming totalitarian world of ‘Greta’ good for all.
The rate of destruction of society and the loss of our basic freedoms, suggests the mad control freaks determined to destroy humanity, will ban all forms of combustion powered road vehicles. We must wait and see what our future (if we have one ) brings us.

Reply to  Steve Case
May 11, 2024 12:15 pm

Diesel fuel will be available for a long time. An efficient battery powered bulldozer or combine harvester is a figment of the imagination; apart from everything else they will be too heavy to work where needed.

Reply to  Rod Evans
May 10, 2024 8:42 am

… EVs are the perfect option to stop personal transport usage.

That’s the point, innit? The well-to-do will be able to afford EVs and home charging stations. They won’t be affected.

We proles, on the other hand, will be dependent upon public transit and won’t be able to travel when we want or where we want.

May 9, 2024 11:51 pm

…the cars are mainly popular with wealthy people as a…city runabout.

_____________________________________________________________

City runabout, that’s the niche for a plug-in hybrid. I’d like to have a small two door plug-in hybrid, but nobody makes one. And if they did it would be loaded with unwanted useless computerized bullshit. We have a ’22 hybrid and it has 17 buttons on the steering wheel, several of which nobody knows what they do. My little 15 year old car has one button on the steering wheel, the horn!

Ed Zuiderwijk
May 10, 2024 2:44 am

Is that a hockey stick I see before me?

(An inverted on that is)

May 10, 2024 3:26 am

EVs will have to come with an ejection system. If you have an accident or the EV starts burning, you’ll be ejected several hundred feet in the air with your chair which will have a parachute automatically open up. I’ll start designing the system. My big chance at riches. 🙂

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
May 10, 2024 5:30 am

I think this will dovetail nicely with the ejection system that ferries will need to install, so that if an onboard car catches fire, it is ejected wholesale into the ocean, post haste. 🙂

(Although this idea is more technically complex than my other idea of towing all the EVs on their own barge behind the main ICE-carrying ferry, the barge being equipped with a simple remote scuttle charge, the ejection system would nevertheless be a lot more enjoyable to watch!)

MarkW
Reply to  stevekj
May 10, 2024 1:47 pm

Need to add a requirement that people can’t stay in their cars during the journey.

Rod Evans
Reply to  stevekj
May 10, 2024 11:59 pm

The ejection system would be very fun to watch particularly in a tunnel….! 🙁

MarkW
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
May 10, 2024 1:46 pm

Hopefully you aren’t in one of the lower floors of a parking garage when the fire starts.

vboring
May 10, 2024 4:39 am

The industry is rapidly transitioning to LFP batteries which are far less flammable.

They’re also cheaper, use no cobalt, don’t degrade as quickly, are less sensitive to cold, and the Shenxing version from CATL can charge in about 12 minutes.

Idle Eric
Reply to  vboring
May 10, 2024 5:20 am

I have some magic beans you might be interested in.

paul courtney
Reply to  Idle Eric
May 10, 2024 6:41 am

Mr. Eric: I like your reply better than my own!

paul courtney
Reply to  vboring
May 10, 2024 6:40 am

Mr. boring: An apt name, you are certainly boring. A second opinion? You are quite wrong about LFP. What dreamers you EV acolytes are!!

Tom Halla
Reply to  vboring
May 10, 2024 6:50 am

I will trade your vaporware batteries for voodoo acupuncture.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  vboring
May 10, 2024 9:37 am

Rapidly? No. Some transitions, yes.

A lot has been invested in LiPO batteries and the conversion to other chemistries is not straight forward.

LFP batteries have less energy density leading to heavier installed batteries.
Trade off for charging time, temperature range, etc. exist for all secondary battery chemistries.

Someone
Reply to  vboring
May 10, 2024 9:44 am

LFPs are more sensitive to cold than NMC Li-ion batteries.
They also have lower energy density, reducing the driving range.

But they are better suited to stationary energy storage, if any batteries are suited for this at all.

Reply to  vboring
May 10, 2024 9:59 am

My ebike uses LFMP, similar to LFP with a bit of manganese substituted for some of the iron. From my research, vboring is about half right, maybe 3/5ths. These batteries do have a lower energy density than Li-Co, but are significantly less likely to spontaneously combust, are cheaper, and are supposed to last longer. I don’t believe they’re actually supposed to be better in the cold, though. They’re also heavier for the same power. (I think that’s a separate effect from the energy density) They definitely don’t use cobalt.

Most of the industry (Tesla, Rivian, Ford) does seem to be using LFP rather than Li-Co, at least some of the time if not always.

From my own experience I’m disappointed in the lifespan of these batteries, and not too keen on the cost of course, but otherwise quite happy with them. They haven’t exploded or caught fire yet! So I call that a win.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  vboring
May 10, 2024 11:19 am

They also are less energy dense so there goes your range. There’s no such thing as a free lunch.

May 10, 2024 6:00 am

It was reported this morning on local news a house fire caused by an electric bike parked in a hallway.

As to ICE vs EV fires I am not aware of ICE spontaneously igniting.

MarkW
Reply to  mkelly
May 10, 2024 1:54 pm

It’s rare, but it happens. Most of the time it’s the result of an incorrectly performed after market modification to the electrical system.
These same changes can, and eventually will be performed to EVs as well. (That is assuming they last long enough for the owners to decide they want to add new features to them.)

Vance Barnhill
May 10, 2024 6:38 am

This is what happens when lunatic environmentalist are allowed to get into the automobile business.

MarkW
Reply to  Vance Barnhill
May 10, 2024 1:53 pm

It’s a self correcting issue when they get into the automobile business. That is, the company in question quickly goes out of business.
What is bad is when lunatic environmentalists are allowed to get into government.
When that happens, they can use the force of government to make us all behave as they want.

iflyjetzzz
May 10, 2024 6:59 am

We need some nicknames for EVs.
Rolling inferno
Barbeque on wheels
Fahrenheit 5000 (that’s how hot EVs burn)

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  iflyjetzzz
May 10, 2024 9:32 am

Cash for less?

Reply to  iflyjetzzz
May 10, 2024 1:51 pm

Rolling Molotov Cocktails?

Green grenades?

May 10, 2024 8:38 am

Just wait until China starts dumping their cheap bEVs on the US markets.

David A
Reply to  More Soylent Green!
May 10, 2024 10:45 am

Biden is about to triple the import tariffs.

ferdberple
Reply to  David A
May 10, 2024 11:32 am

I’m about to win the $100 billion lottery.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  More Soylent Green!
May 10, 2024 11:22 am

Chinese vehicles aren’t big in the US because the safety standards raise their costs too high.

Someone
May 10, 2024 9:28 am

The cars burning in the picture have grills of ICE cars…

Reply to  Someone
May 10, 2024 1:47 pm

It’s an image, not an actual picture.
I don’t know if was CGI or AI.

ferdberple
May 10, 2024 10:21 am

Imagine if your vehicle gas tank heated up dramatically every time you filled it up or stepped on the gas.

May 10, 2024 1:37 pm

I looked at my 2020 Emergency Response Guidebook for first responders during the initial phase of a transportation incident. (Part of my Hazmat training before I retired. I was not a first responder but we dealt with some chemicals/containers it covers.)
Ever notice those diamond shaped placards on trucks with symbols and maybe numbers representing the potential hazards?
I just noticed today that lithium metal and lithium-ion batteries have their own unique symbol.
(This would apply to a quantity of all such batteries, not just EV batteries.)

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/sites/phmsa.dot.gov/files/2020-08/ERG2020-WEB.pdf

The 2024 (which I don’t have or have looked at)
https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/training/hazmat/erg/emergency-response-guidebook-erg

Reply to  Gunga Din
May 11, 2024 8:27 am

I took a quick look at the 2024 version.
EVs and hybrids have now been added.

May 10, 2024 3:22 pm

I was driving in Austin today with my brother and sister-in-law and was informed my sister-in-law has sh*t-canned her Tesla after 6 years and bought a gasoline-powered Accura.

Aside from paying $200 more in vehicle registration fees in Travis County because she didn’t pay gasoline taxes on the Tesla, the straw that broke the camel’s back was her retracted door handles staying in the retracted positions on all doors, making it impossible for her to get into her car.

She had to have the vehicle towed and I would strongly advise Tesla to never request a satisfaction survey from her respective of Tesla’s service department. Ever.

May 10, 2024 4:13 pm

This article mentions hybrid vehicles. Is there any reason to believe that non-plugin hybrids share any of the fire /explosion problems?

May 10, 2024 4:24 pm

I think I read that ICE cars have fires or explosions at about 15X the rate of EVs. Could this be true?

Mr.
Reply to  Warren Beeton
May 10, 2024 6:14 pm

Spontaneous self-combustion is almost unknown in ICE vehicles.

Collisions yes, but just parked – no.

MarkW
Reply to  Warren Beeton
May 11, 2024 8:39 am

Like everything else you believe, this is also wrong.

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