Essay by Eric Worrall
Consumer uptake of voluntary “Demand Response” is insufficient to stabilise the grid.
Australia has more rooftop solar than coal power. What’s going wrong?
Ben Potter Senior writer
Oct 2, 2023 – 8.04pmEnergy regulators and retailers are failing to manage the explosion of rooftop solar power and co-ordinate demand by users to stabilise the power grid – measures they admit are the “linchpin” of the energy transition.
Heading into a hot summer, barely 5 per cent of Australia’s record uptake of rooftop solar is being managed in a way that could help stabilise the grid, and only 3 per cent of peak summer demand could be met by so-called “demand response”, according to the Australian Energy Market Operator.
…
Flow Power sells to commercial and industrial customers, and is trialling a retail offer aimed at households which it expects to launch next year. Mr van der Linden blames large retailers for the dashed hopes for demand response.
They “aren’t partaking in it in a serious way,” he says, and consumers need incentives to set their dishwashers and other appliances to run when it makes most sense for the grid and their hip pockets.
“Why would you participate if there’s no outcome in participating? And while you’ve got retailers offering dumb, flat rates, it just simply won’t work.”
…
Read more: https://www.afr.com/policy/energy-and-climate/australia-has-more-rooftop-solar-than-coal-power-what-s-going-wrong-20231002-p5e90z
Do we need more evidence that renewables are not fit for purpose?
Nobody talked about “demand response”, or energy rationing, in the days of dispatchable energy, except in extreme circumstances such as major outages or failures.
Only fickle, unreliable renewables require people be regularly coerced or enticed into accepting sometimes their air conditioner will stay switched off on hot days, or they might have to wait to switch the dishwasher or washing machine on, or the continuous risk of lost wages or profits, because plant and equipment must remain idle, because nobody can afford to switch it on.
Of course, these problems only apply to people and businesses which can’t afford higher charges on demand intensive days. Wealthy people and less energy intensive businesses will be able to ignore the restrictions, and push the problems with coping with unreliable energy onto the less well off.
Evidently, there are not enough sincere Greens.
Altruism dies when it costs.
I always thought most Aussies are far too sensible to fall for this nonsense!
Let Canberra lead us into the Net Zero future: Make Canberra the first “voluntary “Demand Response” Australian city – except make it mandatory. No exception for Parliament or other government offices either and ban all automobiles within the city/territory limits while we’re at it.
Story tip
https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2023/10/01/uk-govt-rejects-request-to-share-whale-stranding-data-fuelling-suspicions-over-offshore-wind-farms/
off shore wind farm operations may well be killing whales, dolphins and all manner of marine life
When data is denied, it usually indicates a cover up
Where’s Attenborough on this?
He’ll only get excited when it’s walruses.
See how they fly like pigs in the sky see how they run.
Only if it involves first class plane tickets to far away places.
and remember, he is the egg man.
The doddering old fraud can’t do anything without someone elses script in front of him. He’s not a naturalist, not a scientist – he’s just a tv presenter that, frankly, is a bit past it. Time for retirement.
You can bet that Attenborough will continue to look after the interests of himself, as he has always done. Walruses anyone?
I’d rather ask David Bellamy, who was far more genuine than Attenborough, before Attenborough ensured that Bellamy was never given any more tv work! Just ask the walruses!
One was qualified and Attenbollox just did Geography….
Then F*S….build a grid that isn’t so fragile, !!
A new large coal and or gas fired power station in each eastern state would be a really good start.
NSW is being particularly parasitic at the moment, and desperately needs that extra dispatchable electricity
hint: ask your ISO what happens if supply exceeds demand
When supply exceeds demand in an electrical grid, several potential outcomes and effects can occur, depending on the specific circumstances and the capacity of the grid. Here are some of the possible scenarios:
Balancing supply and demand in an electrical grid is crucial for maintaining a stable, reliable, and efficient power system. Grid operators continuously monitor and manage the system to ensure that supply matches demand and to mitigate any potential negative impacts of an imbalance.
Moosh can’t count passed 1.
And even his copy paste is atrocious because he has ZERO UNDERSTANDING of what he is copying.
Supply more than demand can be adjusted for, as moosh has shown…
… and always has been, up to now.
Were you totally ignorant of that fact, moosh ?
What happens when demand exceeds available reliable supply.
That is now the big problem. !!
You really are coming across as a mental imp !!
passed -> past…
What happens when demand exceeds available reliable supply.
simple. what happens in a market place when demand exceeds supply adam smith?
demand more than supply can be adjusted for AND is, all the time.
Were you totally ignorant of that fact, moosh ?
nope. simple fact is you can make money upregulating and down regulating the grid in frequency regulation markets
ONCE again, every impossible poblem you see is just a money making opportunity
https://www.fingrid.fi/en/electricity-market/market-integration/electricity-market-development-projects/demand-side-management/
market pays for up and down regulation.
that is time when supply> demand and when demand > supply.
https://www.energy.gov/oe/demand-response
Lets see it was around 2019 when i help customers deploy the first controllable load bitcoin mining facility in the Ercot Grid.
what would i know
Straight from the NGESO website – do you understand energy?
i understand that frequency regulation is required because my customers get paid to do it. eg to vary their demand according to the market. And because i know my energy suppilers get paid to curtail. power and increase power.
simple fact is this YOUR whole mindset will need to change in a world of excess supply in a too cheap to meter world consuming more becomes a benefit to the system.
Story tip
https://electroverse.info/23-experts-contradict-the-ipcc-the-science-is-not-settled/
We know the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Con is a joke
“Nobody talked about “demand response”, or energy rationing, in the days of dispatchable energy”
That’s nonsense. What you are hyping as “energy rationing” is just off-peak rates, and in Victoria we have had them as long as I can remember. In early days people got a separately metered circuit for off peak, and used it for hot water etc.
In the sixties I lived for a while in newly built student accommodation. It had, as was trendy at the time, floor slab heating. Embedded wires heated during off peak hours only, but kept a steady warmth. It worked very well.
Off peak rates are not rationing, and only someone totally disconnected from reality would believe so.
How can anyone with functioning neurons believe that bribing people to use more electricity is a form of rationing.
Off peak rates are exactly what is being talked about here:
“consumers need incentives to set their dishwashers and other appliances to run when it makes most sense for the grid and their hip pockets”
I don’t know why Flow Power thinks it is so special. AGL currently offers veru substantial off peak rductions, and has for as long as I have been with them (>20 yrs).
“How can anyone with functioning neurons believe that bribing people to use more electricity is a form of rationing.”
Ask Eric.
The reason for the reduced off-peak prices was because they had EXTRA ELECTRICITY that they wanted find a use for
The reason now is because THEY DON’T HAVE ENOUGH available electricity.
Even a narcissistic AGW stooge/zealot like you, must see the difference.
Nick needs to learn the first rule of holes.
Bribing people to use electricity at times when there is a surplus of electricity is not rationing. Only someone who has been paid to keep his pride and his manhood in a lock box would try to argue that it is.
nope this basic capitialist economics supply and demand pricing.
when theres too much wheat for the demand you have to lower the price or increase demand.
thats not rationing.
when theres too little wheat for the demand you raise the price. thats not rationing
DEMAND RESPONSE is simply letting the market work in energy pricing.
its like people magically forget economics when it comes to AGW.
Flat energy Pricing? try that with gasoline.
hey we have a gas glut, flat pricing or its rationing
hey we have a gas shortage. flat pricing! or its rationing.
What have you been drinking, moosh.
Or do you let your 10-year-old handler do the typing for you ?
It is yet another incoherent mess of jumbled nonsense.
When there isn’t the supply of reliable electricity to meet demand.
SOMEONE HAS TO DO WITHOUT.
Are you volunteering, moosh ?
Nick & Mosh are not power experts obvs, as with climate, they are just disrupters with agendas
When there isn’t the supply of reliable electricity to meet demand.
SOMEONE HAS TO DO WITHOUT.
Are you volunteering, moosh ?
volunteering? dont have to my partner companies get Paid to do without.
last qtr one got paid to not use 11,000 kwH.
Its simple.
on any given day the grid operator comes to me and says
“hey, i can sell 50% of your energy use for 12 cents on the spot market
wanna sell?
lets see. i bought it at 4 cents. what do i have to do.
a stop my operation.
get paid.
easy peasy.
will i do without? yup because i get paid to.
how?
https://www.enelx.com/kr/en/demand-response-calculator
“magically forget economics when it comes to AGW.”
Yes, we had all notice that most AGW climate stooges have zero comprehension of basic economics.
Is that what you were trying to say in your garbled incoherent non-thought gibberish.?
when electricity supply is greater than demand Adam smith says what?
“basic capitialist economics supply “
NO, it is NOT.
It has been corrupted by anti-science socialist whims destroying RELIABILITY of supply.
Political and idiot-illogical subsides, mandates, taxes etc.
The “demand response” in this case is because the supply system has broken down because of political idiotology.
It is not about price.
It is about people GOING WITHOUT when they need it.
Are you volunteering, ?
volunteering
https://www.enelx.com/kr/en/demand-response-calculator
no im getting paid
Demand response is consumer control, nothing more, nothing less – with a stable, reliable, affordable fossil fuel / nuclear grid, you wouldn’t have to control the demand side, consumers could use what they want because supply woukd always be there for them
Demand response is consumer control,
no its market pricing based on supply and demand
just let the market operate.
I’ve been paying the electric bill for more than half a century, and have never seen pricing based on time of use.
When visiting my wife’s family in England, there was discussion of time-of-use rates, but not here in the states, nor in the BRD (in the mid 80’s).
Maybe it is because, at least in the past, we had ample power and a well supervised distribution network. Can’t speak to the future. Maybe we’ll end up like England and Oz.
ToU and DSR etc are simply consumer controls to enable renewables in the grid market – without these and the subsidies, there is no business case for them
I’ve been paying the electric bill for more than half a century, and have never seen pricing based on time of use.
thats because your variable demand pattern has been subsidized
Wrong – you either sell the excess cheap and make some money, or you pay grossly erratic renewables to switch off – economics, you either lose money, or make some
True.
I retired from a large water plant. Used LOTS of electricity. But the annual rate we were charged was based on the time of day of our peak usage. The power was there 24/7 but it was cheaper if our peak was during the off peak hours, usually at night.
I remember back in the early ’90s some people came out during the day to check the interface between our High Service Pumps with downtown via our SCADA. (The HS pumps were what pumped the finished water to the water tanks and the rest of the distribution system. Downtown controlled them.)
Someone screwed up and all 12 came on at once. Our rates for the next year were based on that that 10-15 minute spike. Cost the city $1,000s extra a month. (Maybe $10,000s? I used to have the numbers.)
But the power was there.
There is a big difference between ToU pricing and electricity demand quotas. With ToU pricing, you can decide what to consume given the price. With demand control, the decision is made for you on grounds of grid operational problems.
Most ToU pricing historically has been to try to promote additional demand in low demand hours (e.g. Economy 7 in the UK, or your off peak supply in your student days), and has been commonly found where there are large scale baseload generators such as nuclear, or to maintain the efficiency of coal use. It has not been used commonly for household rates at peak hours although a few experimental tariffs have been floated. There is no restriction beyond the capacity of your company fuse on your network connection on how much or how little you draw.
Industry has been subjected to various schemes of peak hour pricing: mostly these have revealed an inadequate investment in grid capacity and grid connected generation, and have resulted in behind the meter generation at industrial sites. In several countries aluminium smelters have offered typically a couple of hours of reduced offtake to help accommodate peak hour consumer demand in exchange for cheaper rates.
No consumers here are being threatened with electricity demand quotas. The article Eric cites is about ToU pricing. Here that has existed for many years with no controversy.
“No consumers here are being threatened with electricity demand quota”
Well they are actually..
Because there is not enough reliable electricity, if some people don’t bow down to the wishes, everybody suffers with brown-outs, black-outs, constrained supply.
ToU pricing has been because there was spare reliable electricity, just trying to smooth out demand a bit.
Exactly the opposite of the current situation, where there is NO spare reliable electricity, and they are trying to avoid blackouts and rationing.
I suspect you are well aware of that fact… and are just carrying on your normal deceitful and petty Nick-picking routine.
Wrong.
Better control of household and business energy demand – or “loads” – can support the grid during supply squeezes instead of flooding it with solar power, help to avert blackouts and smooth volatile prices.
This is known as “demand response” and households and small firms can participate in it via “virtual power plants” organised by retailers managing the supply and usage of large numbers of customers to act like a large power station.
You didn’t read the article. It’s about centralised control of consumer demand and solar panels.
No, that part is about distributed control where people generating power can collaborate. Still nothing about rationing.
“help to avert blackouts and smooth volatile prices.”
And that is the reason.
What do you think “avert blackouts” means if it is not to do with unavailability of supply. ??
Never needed before, when there was plenty of solid reliable electricity available.
Needed now because the grid often teeters on the edge because of the infection by erratic, unreliable pseudo-supplies.
You’ll be getting all the rationing you want in a few years time as renewables on grids increases
Well here’s one controversy – smart meters being remotely switched to expensive ToU tariffs, without consumer permission – it’s a control of your behaviour Nick, if you’re happy to be controlled, crack on
It needs permission. Geoff S and I are both supplied by AGL. Geoff refused a smart meter and pays top price. I accepted, and get off peak price benefits.
Again Nick tries petty distraction… and is immediately caught out.
Bribing people to NOT use electricity and damage their businesses as a result.
Next come the mandates.
Reminds me a cliche’ scene from old military movies.
Sarge: “I need two volunteers to find out where the machine gun nest is. Private Smith. Private Jones. You just volunteered.”
Actually it was “Two paces forward” And if you weren’t quick enough to do two paces back, you were it.;)
damage their businesses as a result????
actually it improves their business.
https://www.voltus.co/
https://www.voltus.co/case-studies
Unlike Australia and California, First World countries with robust energy infrastructure don’t ration. They build. Unless they elect Third World leaders, which many of them have.
California isn’t rationing yet, for residential power.
It’s coming, popcorn ready
ya none of them understand the importance of requency regulation.
working on this now in Finland.
https://www.fingrid.fi/en/electricity-market/reserves_and_balancing/fast-frequency-reserve/
there are incentives for consuming more (negative pricing ) and incentives for using less
in usa there are already aggregators
https://www.voltus.co/voltus-demand-response
companies like Voltus,
also in korea
https://www.enelx.com/kr/en/demand-response
its like the guys here at WUWT stopped believing in the power of the free market.
Yet another load of copy/paste that moosh shows he has zero comprehension of.
Free markets only work when there is enough reliable supply.
Otherwise some people have to go without.
I’m betting you would NEVER volunteer. !
Most people here are well aware of the need for frequency regulation and stability.
.That is why wind and solar are such CRAPPY supply sources…
… they DESTABILISE the system.. making frequency stability expensive and erratic.
That is why SA had to be disconnected from the NEM at one stage.
Nothing worse than amateurs and incompetents proving themselves so, publically
I’m betting you would NEVER volunteer. !
wrong.
first you get paid to regulate your demand so there is no “volunteering”
second: when i first learned about this is 2019 i had engineering change our
machines so we could tune power consumption to the cost of electricity.
real time!
smat businesses will tune their process to the price of electricity.
Not sure what requency is , must be part of a renewable grid?
Jesting aside, I hope the ensuing power outages, rationing and price hikes hits the green mob first, hardest and longest – self flagellation is a religious sacrifice
Inner city self-styled virtue-seeking elites. Easy to target ! 🙂
got any more brilliant savage ad homs? or maybe explain
how frequency is regulated?
see the link
ya none of them understand the importance of requency regulation.
working on this now in Finland.
https://www.fingrid.fi/en/electricity-market/reserves_and_balancing/fast-frequency-reserve/
It’s not a free market when the government intervenes with requirements on where the supply must come from, or incentivizes different and less efficient supplies.
you guys think just because you can demand anytime power at a fixed price, the market has to supply it otherwise tyranny.
Nick,
What are you going on about? I’ve lived almost my entire life in the US, with the exception of 2 – 1/2 years in The Federal Republic of Germany. I’ve never encountered such a scheme in either country, and not now in The People’s Republic of California. We haven’t, so far, had “demand response” anywhere that I have lived – anyone who wanted electricity could have it, absent a local maintenance shutdown or a major calamity. Then, no one got any electricity in the affected area.
You are wrong Nick old bean – DSR is a recent methodology dreamt up by grid operators to ensure the replacement of stable, reliable, affordable fossil fuel & nuclear power by useless, weather dependent renewables, can proceed with some type of operational success
The trouble being, the more renewable integration they force, the less stability and reliability the grid has, hence less control
Forced demand reduction to ensure supply can cope, is a third world, regressive grid that will at some point simply fall over
The rolling power outages and rationing in places like South Africa and India etc, are a glimpse of future western scenarios
How is DSR different from off peak (ToU) pricing? We have had that forever. Here is my current pricing from AGL, the main Vic retailer:
Nick… there is a big difference between power over supply, which is what off peak is all about, and power undersupply, which is what this article is about with rationing power with the real threat of blackouts with intermittent, unreliable renewables.
Imagine that, people are reluctant to sweat (or freeze) in the dark.
In other news….Oshkosh Trucks is selling E vehicles for Fire Dept.s….for Emergency Services….for the Post Office….none of those “dirty” FF vehicles to pollute your air…what a biz!….duh gubment forces people to buy your expensive vehicles….but it’s good for you, no?
Boy, I can’t wait for the fire truck to arrive only to run out of battery power… and my house is still engulfed in flames.
Yeah. I saw that. Nothing like driving a fire hazard to a fire. I hope they have plenty of F-500 on board.
Not only that, but what happens when the battery runs out in the middle of fighting a fire? Pumping 500gpm at 80-100 psi requires just a little bit of power…
Tony, that’s when half the fire fighting crew pulls out the pedal-powered generators and pedals until the batteries recharge for the pumps.
This was not a surprise, except to leftists who struggle with understanding that there’s a big difference between their power generation fairy tales and reality. Increasing reliance on intermittent wind and solar requires building MORE dispatchable power plants fueled by coal or natural gas to make up the difference when they don’t generate electricity. Otherwise, rationing and rolling blackouts.
That reality is closing in on them, the pain will be worth the rivers of tears from left wing greenerati types
“Mr van der Linden blames large retailers for the dashed hopes for demand response.”
Large retailers… I do not want to be on the answering questions side of the freezers shutting off at noon on a hot day in a supermarket.
Or the freezers shutting off all night on a still summer night??
Our family certainly did. Most Queenslanders certainly knew about demand management although they may not have called it that.
I grew up in Queensland in the 1950/60s and demand response was a feature of the supply system in Brisbane for as long as I can remember. There was always a fight for the early bath before the sisters used up all the hot water. The Zellweger on the water heater did not kick in until late night or early morning. Ripple demand control has been a feature of demand management in Queensland and Northern NSW for some 70 years. During thunder storms, the ability to dump some load using ripple control devices was a key tool in the arsenal of system controllers responsible for keeping the lights on.
I believe South Australia still use time clocks on hot water that kick in early morning (how stupid is that now). They are currently looking at changing that system to ripple control to heat water when the sun is shining.
“Our family certainly did.”
Sounds like this was long before renewables.
Sounds like the ‘demand response’ was about one tank of hot water.
Nothing to do with an overall grid-wide lack of reliable electricity…. was it Nick…
… you know.. like NOW…
They should be named regressables
Zellweger? cool
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zellweger_off-peak
If only we had a way to provide electricity when people wanted it.
A revolutionary idea. It’ll never catch on!
Indeed, that would require dispatchable electricity like zero carbon nuclear power, which everyone knows is evil and wrong.
We have, but not via intermittent, weather dependent tat
and at whatever voltage they want!
freedom!!!
The only ones who should be made to turn down their power is the government. If there is danger of a brownout or blackout the government should be shut down.
And all greenerati shills
Other news about Australia comes from the hard work of Dr Spencer and Dr Christy at University of Alabama.
Here is the monthly update of the “pause”, continuing despite a couple of hot months in the lower troposphere over Australia.
One wonders why there is so much fuss about global warming. Geoff S
Thanks Greg.. I hadn’t got around to that yet 🙂
ELEVEN YEARS of no warming.
Add that to the other earlier period of no-warming.
Absolutely no sign of any CO2 warming effect !
Geoff.
yep, realised that a few seconds after I posted.
Been outside in the lovely Sun !
ps Sept UAH Australia is down just a touch to 1.17C
bnice2000,
Sharp eyes, thank you. The most recent month dropped out in processing. The trens remains negative. Thank you for noticing this. Geoff S
June and July were MAGNIFICENT winter months..
Blue skies, not too cold (except in the mornings)
No-one I know was complaining at all. 🙂
September was odd, swinging back and forth between rather warm and rather cold.
First 4 days of October.. quite warm.. forecast is for back-to-winter temperatures for a few days…
All over the shop !!! 🙂
Darn it, this climate change just doesn’t seem to have any consistency does it?
If I didn’t know any better I would say it was something to do with weather….
Here in the sunny, showery, windy, still climate conditions of the UK which that evil CO2 has delivered to us next week is threatening to be lovely autumn weather, or is that lovely autumn climate? I am sure the BBC will be advancing we are experiencing the obvious tell tale signs of climate change.
Obviously even empty political promises can control the climate.
My electric supplier sets a single price for the year, usually in November. It doesn’t change, unless at the next November meeting.
I am happy to not have to roast a Christmas turkey during the night of the 22nd so I can afford to have lights during the meal on the 25th.
I should mention I don’t live in Australia.
Nobody talked about “demand response”, or energy rationing, in the days of dispatchable energy, except in extreme circumstances such as major outages or failures.
demand response is not energy rationing.
look energy generation never matches demand. consequently there is frequency instability.
grid operators have a few options for handling frequency fluctuations.
you could of course turn sources off if generation exceeds demand,
you could turn a flywheel
or you can let the market handle it. that’s how its done in Finland and in some parts of the USA
are you running a 30MW bitcoin operation?
ok, we will pay you to stop running it when electricity generation is not meeting demand
in fact i worked on designing bitcoin machines that were sensitive to the price of electricity.
run faster when the price is cheap, turn off when price of electricity goes down
Nobody talked about “demand response”, or energy rationing, in the days of dispatchable energy,
The history of demand response can be traced back to the need for improved power system performance, enhanced reliability, and increased grid flexibility. As customers started consuming more electricity and paying higher utility bills, the energy industry sought ways to conserve energy and manage electricity demand. Energy conservation, known as energy efficiency, initially focused on improving energy devices to use less energy while achieving the same outcomes. Energy efficiency programs were aimed at reducing total energy consumption.
Eventually, energy markets evolved, and utilities began exploring energy conservation from a new perspective, emphasizing the timing of energy consumption to match energy supply. This approach, known as demand management or demand response, aimed to achieve different outcomes by engineering different energy consumption patterns rather than simply reducing overall energy consumption. Demand response programs sought to balance energy demand and supply by reducing or shifting electricity consumption in response to economic or reliability signals.
TLDR: demand response is SIMPLY applying market philosphy to the problem of frequency management.
no need to build flywheels
https://www.fingrid.fi/en/electricity-market-information/reserve-market-information/automatic-frequency-restoration-reserve-afrr-realised-hourly-transactions/
And make your appliances more intelligent
namely hot water heaters, refrigerators and heat pumps
https://www.otago.ac.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0023/330656/estimating-the-technical-potential-for-residential-demand-response-in-new-zealand-701270.pdf
You are, yet again typing, GARBAGE. !
One expects at least something semi-coherent even from a failed Eng-Lit student.
Supply availability greater than demand. yes they can offer lower prices to level out the demand curve
Demand greater than available reliable supply…
… which is now becoming the major problem….
The elite, can pay the higher prices…
But SOMEONE HAS TO GO WITHOUT.
And I bet you would never be one to volunteer.
Make yourself more intelligent, moosh..
Get an education to a level higher than junior high English.
“the timing of energy consumption to match energy supply.“
They used to regulate the RELIABLE suppliers to have supply match demand.
And then they started using wind and solar…
.. and stuffed everything up, completely !
Now they want you to stop using electricity because they can’t supply it as needed.
Sad state of affairs, isn’t it. !
Moosh is, of course, offering to turn his electricity off every night when there is no wind and on cloudy windless days.
Aren’t you, moosh. !!
Or this idea just for everyone else?
DSR is rationing, as are ToU tariffs etc – when you cannot receive what you want, when you want, at a reasonable price, it’s being rationed
If you price energy such that only rich elites can afford it, you are rationing it to the poorer masses – if you cannot supply energy even to the rich elites, because the wind or sun aren’t there, you are rationing it
ToU tariffs etc are sociopaths divisive because only the rich can afford to use what they want, when they want – if you have a lack of supply, where you cannot even serve those who can pay any amount, you are rationing
imagine having a grid that was smart enough to supply electricity at a true market price,
higher price when demand was high and supply low, lower price when demand was low and supply high.
rather than flat rates and PPAs
imagine a world where your hot water heater was smart enough to understand your daily needs, and optimize its power usage to market conditions.
ya’ll gunna stay in horse anf buggy forever. !!!
as a kid remember how the power went out and your dad said, dont open the freezer?
imagine a fridge as smart as your old man, that understood temperature and the price of electricity
and understood to warn you to keep the doors closed when the price of cooling was high.
nope: i runs my fridge on propane! its dumb.
while intelligent places like Finland figure out demand response. Australia screws it up.
the only lesson here isnt about demand response its about the silly approach aus took
I don’t want to have to respond to the needs of electricity companies, I want them to respond to my needs – like the old days.
Exactly Eric. It is a command versus demand issue, it is basic economic principles in play.
Are we advancing a free economy or are we allowing a controlled economy? The latter seems to be favoured by the alarmists as they force energy restrictions and impose ever more detailed controls upon us.
From what I can see, alarmists have a basic psycho-illogical NEED to have someone control their actions, everything they do and think.
Stems from their complete inability to think for themselves. !
Leftists in general, and you rightly point out thinking, not just actions.
We have a family friend who is very left-leaning. Whenever we discuss anything, I use solid, documentable examples (video, people’s own statements, etc) while she refers to “this professor says” or “that researcher says”. She doesn’t analyze, she has just chosen who to do her thinking for her.
How do you manage such a load of incoherent nonsense and gibberish with every post you make ?
Never learnt basic capitalisation, either?
A three-toes sloth would be smarter than you, moosh !
So glad to see YOU volunteering to be one of those that are at the beck and call of the power companies.
Providing them a service… How altruistic and moronic of you.!
“hot water heater was smart enough to understand your daily needs”
You mean having hot water available whenever the USER needs it,
… rather than just when the when the wind is blowing?
“understood to warn you to keep the doors closed when the price of cooling was high.”
Moosh is saying he will go without a cool drink on a hot day.
Couldn’t get much more stupid than that !
But I’m sure he will try.
Perhaps you could explain that approach in some detail..
I think moosh must be referring to the idiotic approach of trying to downgrade their reliable coal-fired power supplier…
… and the stupidity of allowing wind and solar to disrupt the grid stability..
I guess we’ll never know. He’s over on another thread talking about not being able to stop EVs, now.