About the BBC article “Pioneering wind-powered cargo ship sets sail” by Tom Singleton.
The annals of history are dotted with examples of humanity looking to the past for inspiration. Yet, one has to chuckle when seeing modern behemoths of the sea considering the bygone era of sails as their next technological leap. The BBC’s recent article on this topic introduces a cargo ship attempting to cruise through modern logistics, not simply with roaring engines but with… sails?
Historic Enthusiasm or Mere Marketing Ploy?
Shipping firm Cargill seems to be floating the idea that British-designed WindWings might help reduce the industry’s carbon emissions, given shipping’s estimated 2.1% contribution to global CO2. But seriously, is this a genuine stride forward or just a quirky nod to yesteryears and or green fanatasies?
Claims in the Wind
For its flagship journey from China to Brazil, the Pyxis Ocean is set to test these majestic WindWings. Touting a height of 123ft and borrowing materials from wind turbines, there’s a claim in the air: a potential 30% reduction in a ship’s lifetime emissions. Sounds like someone may want to do a lifecycle analysis.
Savings or Just Hot Air?
BAR Technologies from the UK is behind this wind-inspired innovation, boldly claiming fuel savings of one-and-a-half tonnes per day. Magnify that with four wings and it seems we’re in for a six-tonne daily fuel reduction. But, with manufacturing outsourced to China, perhaps there’s probably more to these calculations than meets the eye.
A Windy Resolution?
While some experts see potential in harnessing the winds, the intent to cut down the 837 million tonnes of annual CO2 from shipping with kites, rotors, and sails might end up being a bit disappointing.
Reality Check with Numbers
Stephen Gordon, from Clarksons Research, offers a reality bite, highlighting the minuscule uptake of this wind-driven technology. Amidst the vast ocean of over 110,000 vessels, a mere 100 utilize such wind assistance. It’s akin to finding a needle in a… well, ocean.
A Step Forward or Two Steps Back?
The endearing image of ships going back to their wind-blown origins might evoke romantic tales of adventures on the high seas. But as a solution for modern-day shipping? The sails of the Pyxis Ocean might stand tall with hope, but the practicality of such a venture remains questionable at best. For now, the industry’s “back to the future” aspirations might need to stay anchored in fiction.
H/T Willie Soon
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Waterworld and Mad Max, a couple of Bill Gates’ favorite movies .
“It’s akin to finding a needle in a… well, ocean.”
How about: Finding a fish in the ocean.
An attempt is likely to lead to a find. Brilliant, right?
There is wind over the ocean. Who knew?
Color me unimpressed. 🙂
I’ll mix my metaphors until the Sun is high as a kite.
You go, Charles!
To quote the great Southern philosopher; Lynyrd Skynyrd: “You got that right!”
Mixed metaphors can be thought of as linguistic diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Word Salad!
Did you mean Son (as in First Son, offspring of The Big Guy)?
“A Return to the Age of Sailing Ships: Nostalgia or Nonsense?”
Both.
“claiming fuel savings”
So not really a bona fide sailing ship then, more of an hybrid; like the Toyota Pious.
“If the ancient ships had no wind, they could not move forward unless they rowed or got towed somehow. “
https://abusonadustyroad.com/how-old-ships-sail-without-wind-in-the-ancient-times/
It’s kind of taking the Pyxis
They seem to ignore currents.
Interesting.
I wonder if those wingthings break if hit broadside by a strong gust of wind. Or maybe they just roll the ship.
In the age of sail one could furl the sails not required or too dangerous in current wind conditios.
These can also be “furled”
“Time is money.” And since the winds at any given time and place on an ocean surface can be variable in speed and direction, even non-existent, (with a nod to overall averages such as “trade winds”, “prevailing westerlies”, etc.) to make maximum advantage of wind-powered propulsion, ocean-going ships would simply have to travel too slowly in equivalent straight line path on average to be economically viable.
Not quite true. A wind from the side is always going to hit the side of the ship at the same speed, regardless of the forward speed of the vessel.
Capturing that sideways force and converting to forward thrust will still work.
Sailing 101
You should get your money back for your sailing 101 course. A beam wind when the ship is not moving moves forward of the beam once the ship is moving. That is vector maths.
If there is a true beam wind of 15kts and the ship is powering into it at 20kts The apparent wind will be just 36 degrees off the direction of travel blowing at 25 kts..
Exactly! Aboard a surface vessel in motion, wind is always relative (i.e., needs vector math for proper calculation).
Also, flexible sails or airfoils can be designed/trimmed to provide forward thrust with the vessel pointing somewhat into the wind (known as being “close hauled” when using flexible sails) by dint of thrust vector reaction with the sailboat’s keel . . . the flat, vertical side of a vessel such as a massive cargo ship does not perform this function if the wind is hitting directly abeam or from a < 90° angle off the bow.
you all having this off-topic conversation; so tacky
The topic of the above article, as defined by its title, is “Pioneering wind-powered cargo ship sets sail”.
Yet you assert the discussions of relative wind as experienced by ships-with-sails and the inability of modern cargo ships “to sail” when pointing into the wind is off topic???
Speaking of tacky . . . yes, the subject of tacking into a wind is itself an appropriate discussion point for the subject article, so thank you for that.
Good pun!
And do tell… What is the velocity of the wind in the two vectors, (one pointing in the direction of travel the other, 90 degrees off, from the side). The one from the front, I’m not interested in, so tell me the velocity vector from the side.
I’ll give you a clue the answer is in my post above. And remember, velocity is a vector, not a scalor and I did say “from the side”. If you don’t know vectors then stop replying.
Decomposing a given wind vector into two orthogonal components really serves no practical purpose other than mathematical analysis . . . the only things that matter to a sailor is wind relative to the sails and to the instantaneous heading of the sailboat.
Exactly. An engine gives the ship consistent speed, wind does not – it’s the same argument with wind turbines; barely adequate when the wind co-operates, useless when it’s too strong or too calm. It’s goldilocks engineering again and I don’t think that there will be enough times when the wind is ‘just right’ to justify this concept – just one more expensive boondoggle.
What do you bet that the “potential 30% reduction in emissions” is vastly overstated, and may not even compensate for those created in the construction and installation of said sails!
If Greentards were really interested in reducing oceanic vessel emissions they would be strenuously advocating for the development of more modern nuclear propulsion systems; preferably a sealed system that is nearly indestructible, like some SMRs are reputed to be. The fact that they remain completely opposed to modern nuclear shows that they are not actually concerned about CO2, but are only trying to destroy the remnants of the free market system and impose an international command economy, controlled by the very politicians and bureaucrats who have brought us to this state! I fear for future generations of children; they may never know the freedoms we enjoy, speech or otherwise!
I think 5% would be optimistic. The sails are tiny, the ship enormous and the wind unlikely to be from a useful direction if blowing at all.
I have seen other articles hyping this nonsense. The claim in the other articles is that fuel savings could be up to 30%. Of course, the phrase “up to” contains the value zero. I suspect that any fuel savings will be on the order of 1% if they are lucky.
This article does not say anything about how the wind is used but I would not be surprised if it has nothing to do with propulsion but is only to aid auxiliary systems such as lighting, heating, cooling, sanitation, cooking, and such — when the wind is blowing.
A detailed technical article says they tested them, and achieved a maximum speed of 5.5 knots, but were still accelerating at the end of the test.
After developing this technology, I see them using it for one or two demonstration voyages then never using it again – the savings will be negligible if at all. This is just another widely publicised virtue signalling enterprise, nothing more.
Remember the Savannah? First commercial ocean going nuclear powered ship. Launched when I was a child. Later, my employer was offered the reactor and my task was to see where we could use it.
The Savannah was only a demonstration. It was never intended to be economically viable.
I often wonder on comments like this if people even hear themselves. “I hate everything that has to do with the wind and won’t hear anything else you have to say about it”. lol . “Remnants of the free market” also lol
Sounds like you’ve never read your own books! Incidentally, I love sailing; I just don’t see it as a solution for the non-existent Climate Catastrophe! Please stop trying to read minds, and bring some facts and data to the discussion!
Two quotes from abolition man
” …… and bring some facts and data to the discussion!”
“What do you bet that the “potential 30% reduction in emissions” is vastly overstated, and may not even compensate for those created in the construction and installation of said sails!”
I didn’t realise that ‘bets” are facts or data
For the hard-of-hearing I’ll rephrase that!
“I don’t believe that they will achieve the “potential 30% reduction in emissions!”
The clipper ships were the fastest ships of the Era of Sail, yet their speed records are matched by the cruising speed of modern container ships; about 24 knots (18-20 knots when conserving fuel.)
The largest clippers had a capacity of about 4,000 metric tons; most were in the 800-1,000 ton range. Modern container ships carry about 24,000 TEU, which works out to almost 600,000 metric tons. That’s more than TWO orders of magnitude larger than the largest clippers, about 600x the capacity of your most popular clippers like Cutty Sark and Flying Cloud!
I don’t believe that the technology for added sails is mature or has been proven in any but smaller ship applications! The Maltese Falcon sailing yacht that is pictured farther down in the comments is a fantastically beautiful boat! If I had an extra half million laying around with nothing to do I would jump at the chance to charter her for a week for ten or so friends and family! But I wouldn’t want to try and sail through a typhoon or a hurricane with sails that cannot be furled or reefed without a fully functioning push button control system!
I call! Show me what you got!
Quite right. Too many of these ‘schemes ‘ are no more than mere grifting a temporary windfall to the grifters. Then as the inevitable is realised they walk away as though nothing happened … nothing did happen other than the reappropriation of funds from the taxpayer pocket to the grifter pocket.
Why stop there when cold fusion is still available?
Don’t give up. Andrea Rossi has a big demonstration later this year, just needs some more investment.
Yes, hmm. Why is it that Andrea Rossi’s schemes require vast amounts of investment? On his past performance, I’d not be investing in anything with his name on it. Cold Fusion might be possible (although the odds are against it) but not just yet.
So there are 110,000 ships and they are going to be replaced by these vessels of which there are currently 100 exactly when? It’s like EVs; circa 30m worldwide today compared to 1.4 billion ICEVs but the EV revolution is coming!
I see great advances coming in aviation.
The solution is to mandate that whenever a ship carrying EVs is lost due to a battery fire, it must be replaced by one of these.
About forty years ago there was another attempt at reviving sailing ships involving, if I recall, Guinness shipments to the West Indies. Seems to have gone quiet…
There was also a drilling outfit which hoisted a sail between the legs of a jack-up rig to help shifting about the Gulf of Mexico.
The Guinness vessel is the Atlantic Clipper now doing overnight backpacker tours in the Whitsundays, Great Barrier Reef, Australia. Not sure I’ve ever seen the sails up but it has solid diesel power (our boat is in the same marina so we see it a lot).
We have supply line problems now, just wait until we have to depend on the wind for shipments.
Its consistent with their energy policy: they want to make shipping as weather dependent as the new energy grid. They just hate the rest of humanity (of course they themselves are innocent).
Story tip – 14 US cities initiate new globalist climate plan in partnership with Soros and the Clintons – American Thinker
They should begin rebuilding their stables.
They can just use all first floors in office buildings and underground garages; far safer than allowing EVs to charge, or even park! And it might freshen the air a bit in San Fransicko!
Ship weight goes up by the cube, sail area goes up by the square.
So, no.
Need to ban ice from said vessels.
It would take far more expertise and knowledge to do an analysis of this technology.
But, you should know that there has been a technological revolution in sailing, which is hard to believe seeing that the technology of sailing is more than 5000 years old.
The fastest yachts in sailing competitions such as the Americas Cup no longer depend on sails like those illustrated in the painting of a clipper ship. They now use sails shaped as airfoils like airplane wings. This technology enables them to sail faster than the wind.
I am guessing from the illustration above that the test ship isusing airfoil technology. Whether that makes engineering or economic sense is beyond my ability to say.
Yes, the technology may have improved but it is still the wind and the wind is a fickle friend. Ask any sailor who has been becalmed for an extended time. You can easily calculate the wind contribution knowing the wind speed, direction and the sail area. The problem is that the wind speed and direction are extremely variable. Data on the trade winds in the Atlantic are available. And so are the flow of the water currents. They were called easterlies and westerlies in historic times.
I am in the middle of an interesting book on sailing by a professional captain “Reading the Glass” by Elliott Rappaport 2023 [“glass” refers to the now ancient term for the barometer].
Lots anecdotes and sailing terms (kept duckduckgo busy) but he really likes to discuss weather and how it affects ocean travel, And so far, he has not made it a screed about climate change.
Very enjoyable.read. [and I am not a sailor]
I suspect Rappaport would laugh at the concept of using wind for container ships.as much as he complains about the ever changing weather..
It would take far more expertise and knowledge, than I have, to do an analysis of this technology.
All sails are essentially airfoils, except if a sailing ship is traveling directly downwind. For a ship traveling crosswind (beam reach), the sails are let out at about a 30 to 45 degree angle to the ship’s motion, and the air flowing around the convex side of the sail travels a longer distance (and faster) than the air on the inside of the sail, creating a pressure difference. This force can be resolved into two vectors, one along the direction of motion (propelling the ship forward), and the other sideways, tending to capsize the ship (this force is counteracted by keel weight in a well-designed sailing ship).
The “fastest yachts in sailing competitions” now are essentially catamarans, with two narrow hulls with a flat trampoline in between, which have very little drag in the water. In strong winds, the upwind hull lifts out of the water, and the crew move to the upwind hull to balance the tipping force with their weight. Sometimes, crew members are tethered to the mast in harnesses, with only their feet on the upwind hull, and their bodies leaning out over the water on the upwind side, for greater leverage.
While this design allows these yachts to sometimes exceed the wind speed, it would be too dangerous for a ship carrying thousands of tons of containers, due to the danger of losing containers overboard during excessive listing (tipping sideways) of the ship due to the sideways component of the wind force on a sail.
A large container ship displaces its weight (plus the cargo weight) of water, meaning that it floats relatively low, and all that displaced water needs to be pushed out of the way for the ship to move forward. Unless the ship is traveling directly downwind, in order for a sail to develop enough force to propel the ship forward, the sideways listing force would cause the ship to lean at too sharp of an angle to the waterline, with the risk of losing containers overboard. Also, even in a tailwind, a sudden shift in wind direction can cause a jibe (the sail suddenly changes sides) which can cause the ship to roll, which can risk a capsize in large waves.
For a large container ship, in order for a sail system to contribute an appreciable amount of power, it would have to be so large that it would increase the risk of capsize.
And then you have shifting ballast…. Like a large airplane, you can drain fuel from different tanks to promote balance. Same on a ship and especially on a large crane barge. You pump fuel and water to maintain an upright position relative to the horizon, in response to the lateral loads.
It’s all been done before and is still happening today.
BTW, Cargill is not essentially a shipping company. The following from its Wikipedia entry:
Could these muppets even organise the proverbial piss up?
as attached is a synoptic view of where this tub will be going, roughly along my red dashed line.
No matter where you go across the Pacific to get from China to Brazil, the wind is against you all the way
BTW: That’s very kind of China..
Cargill is a feed/food company and the ship in the picture is patently a ‘bulk carrier’ of some sort.
So if it’s got a Cargill flag, it’s carrying grain.
From China to Brazil??????
BTW #2 If there was/is an El Nino in full swing as generally cracked up to be, shouldn’t what wind there is be blowing from west to east?
edit while I still remember..
They’re gonna be doubly stuffed when they get to Panama – the canal has run out of water and there is/was a 2 week queue to get through
If the goal is to greatly reduce the carbon emissions of the world’s fleet of cargo ships, nuclear propulsion is the only practical means of achieving it. This interview from the Atomic Insights blog goes into some bit of depth concerning the opportunities and the issues of converting the world’s cargo ships from diesel to nuclear:
Atomic Show #294 – Mikal Boe, Core Power Founder and CEO
“Mikal Boe has spent 30 years in and around the commercial shipping industry. Several years ago, he began wondering how his industry was going to meet the increasingly stringent rules for air pollution and CO2 production that were being implemented by governing regulators, especially the International Maritime Organization (IMO).
His extensive technical research led him to recognize that nuclear energy was the only available technology that could supply the power and energy requirements for competitive ships and also meet ever tightening regulations on their emissions.”
Low emission zone funny
“”SNP-led Glasgow City Council have spaffed almost £100,000 on rented vehicles across their fleet just to avoid their own air pollution policies introduced over the summer. According to The Times, in the two months since the Council introduced the Low-Emission Zone in the city centre, they’ve hired two eight-tonne vehicles from DAF Trucks, a cherry picker, a Mercedes refrigerated van, 52 Ford transit vans, and 22 Vauxhall Corsas. All to avoid being stung by fines of up to £1,260 if, god forbid, they turned on the engine of a diesel built before 2015…
Even so, the Council have also admitted that 9 of the 21 fines its own vehicle fleet received were subsequently cancelled, supposedly because the fume-belching vehicle in question was actually LEZ-compliant after all. If even the Council’s own cars are already being fined in error, you’d think they’d take a deeper look their IT systems before accidentally fining hundreds of innocent motorists…””
https://order-order.com/2023/08/22/glasgow-council-splashes-100000-on-rented-vehicles-to-dodge-lez-fines/
It’s a shame that there seems too be such a stunningly negative attitude towards this on WUWT. The idea is to use wind assistance to add to the main propulsion system output and not to run exclusively under wind power. The vertical sails are, of course, aerofoils and can be adjusted to take maximum advantage of the instantaneous wind pressure available and can also be feathered in the case of a potential overpressure. It seems extremely unlikely that the design team adding an aerofoil to a ship would not consider a possible failure mode likely to overturn a ship or cause structural damage to the sails. As an aside, modern container ships can weigh anything between 50k and 200k tonnes deadweight and the size of an impulsive wind force capable of providing any rotational moment about the ship’s centre of gravity seems more likely to sink the ship rather than roll it.
John Walker / Walker Windsail was a small enterprise which designed and built a really delightful vertical axis aerofoil powered Trimaran and several smaller similarly powered vessels. I had the joy of trying one at the time (1980’s) and might have gnawed off my own foot to own one as it could be steered with its own steering wheel and reverse into a marina berth under wind power. Unfortunately the miseries in the yacht clubs and boating press said it would never work, the sail would break, melt, be eaten by seagulls, not be efficient and certainly cost more than the equivalent suit of canvas curtain things hanging on poles. And anyway, it’s obviously far more fun going out on deck in sea state 6 and armour piercing rain to reef up the mizzen topgallant staysail rather than turn a knob on the aerofoil control panel. As the final damning reason, what was good enough for Nelson is good enough for us.
Reading the comments here, I see nothing has changed in nearly 50 years.
I’m sorry that it’s just the climate fanatics that have annexed the idea and are trying to resurrect it. If it was sold as a fuel saving idea then perhaps it would be more acceptable here. Personally I think that anything that means we can burn less of a wonderful chemical feedstock like oil is worth a bit of experimentation. An 8000 TEU ship may burn up to 220 tons of fuel oil every day and at $600 – $700 per ton, this is a substantial proportion of the cost of running a transport. Reduce this and our import costs go down. And here’s an unexpected delight, we could turn all our UK expertise (ho, ho) in making aerofoils for wind turbines into making aerofoils for ships. What an investment opportunity for the government of Scotland.
Scotland? Hmm
We shall see
So right! How ridiculous, what nonsense!
And I love Sailing. I came to the US to be Sailing Instructor back in 1976 at a summer camp in Deer Isle Maine. A beautiful Summer that was, and I never left.
I have taken a bicycle to work, who ever heard of people ditching their cars in favor of their Sailboat to make it to work on time, just to help saving the Planet? It is just nuts!
And what will happen when one of those Sailboat Freighters gets caught in a serious storm or a Hurricane, those tall masts will become a serious Liability fast.. They will go quickly to join the likes of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
Great Article!
Thanks.
Frits
Leftists spend the same amount of time doing quantitative analysis as they do cost benefit ratios, none, zero, nada.
If the pic is the actual ship, I don’t see how it could possible contribute much at all. The “sails” are far to small in relation the to size and drag of the ship, they don’t appear to be airfoil shaped. If not airfoil, they can only contribute when the wind is directly astern or nearly so.. And, can they be shipped quickly in adverse high winds?
Sailing ships should be used 100% of the time that wind is blowing, at great enough intensity, to get cargo where it is going, more cheaply than any other source of energy. The difference between the frequency where those conditions all occur at the sme time and zero is almost indiscenible.
Anyone who truly believes that the cost of the carbon burned and used to rig and sail a ship is zero is a fool.
The cost of operating a ship is far more than just the cost of fuel! Tying up capital waiting for the wind to blow has it’s cost too!
Ever look at anything so dumb it gave you Forest Whitaker eye?
When the sails are blazing from the electric vehicle fires on board, it will be easier to see from shore.
Who was the idea man for this? Bill Blazejowski from Night Shift?
Bill: Wait a minute! Why don’t they just mix the mayonnaise with the tuna in the can… HOLD THE PHONE! Why don’t they just FEED the tuna fish mayonnaise!
Call Starkist
OK. First question. How much are the subsidies projected to be????
I wondered about that myself.
But wind assisted power is cost effective without subsidies, go for it.
It might catch on.
MIght! Just like EVs!
Might catch,(fire), just like EVs!
Looks to me like this is the latest version of the Flettner ship, built by Anton Flettner in the 1920s. Per Wikipedia, several ships were subsequently built and operated profitably, but disappeared due to the depression and competing diesel fuel at rock bottom prices.