Essay by Eric Worrall
Two secondary school Greta minions have demanded the vote, so they can push aside all the older climate action blockers. But there is a reason we don’t allow kids to vote.
If we have to fight this war, give us a say in the battle plans
ByArlo Foyn Hill and Qing Ng
February 6, 2023 — 5.00amOn Wednesday, Ross Gittins wrote an apology to his grandkids for not fighting the war of our times. He questioned whether the politicians pushing the government’s flawed climate policy were quietly banking on not being around long enough to have to explain their actions to their grandkids.
Young people will bear the brunt of climate change impacts but have also driven a global movement calling for action from world leaders – our elders. We are the ones who will face worsening extreme weather, and should have a say in what our leaders are doing to keep us safe.
…
It is clear that if we are to make real progress towards a sustainable future the time has come for us to pass the microphone to the younger generation.
From the age of 16, young people can drive, work, pay taxes and even enlist in the military. A whole demographic of working, contributing citizens given civic duties but withheld from one of the most important civic rights: the right to vote.
Younger people are politically engaged and contribute an essential voice. In a world where the climate emergency is such a defining issue, it is vital that the voice of the future is invited to the table to work towards solutions, rather than handing over everything to those who think they may not be around to see extreme consequences.
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Read more: https://www.smh.com.au/national/if-we-have-to-fight-this-war-give-us-a-say-in-the-battle-plans-20230203-p5cht4.html
One important life event most 16 year olds have not experienced is paying their own utility bills.
In my opinion, the main reason most people don’t support radical climate action to the extent many 16 year olds do, is adults with real responsibilities prefer to have enough money left to buy food, after paying all the bills.
When you’re young you haven’t lived though a series of scares, many involving weather/climate many not and none being as bad as feared if they actually happened at all. You haven’t been conned or had the wool pulled over your eyes by dishonest vendors, conmen and politicians.
Adults of all ages fall for these scams but there’s enough sceptics who say “prove it and show me” to make life difficult for these people.
18 for voting was a bad idea far less 16
I don’t approve of having to own property to vote, but property was not the point, it was only a proxy for having become an adult.
I’d say paying rent is a good proxy now. Couples can put both names on the contract. Some parents might gin up bedroom contracts for children living at home. But it would be better than nothing. And no, dorm rooms don’t count.
ETA that part of being an adult is independence, and that’s why dorms and living with parents do not qualify. Lost your job, moved back in with your folks? Too bad. You are not independent enough to vote.
And along those lines, anyone on any welfare program should not be able to vote themselves other people’s money.
The logical conclusion of this kind thinking is that the more taxes you pay the more votes you get. On that basis Elon Musk, Bezos , Soros and Gates would run the country. I don’t think that is the basis for constitutional republic.
It isn’t how MUCH taxes you pay, just that you PAY them! Many adults don’t even qualify under THAT rule!
I’ve long argued that voting should be on the basis of paying taxes. Roughly half the population does not. Many even get refundable credits. They should be disqualified.
Totally agree. Without paying taxes the citizen has no “skin in the game”, so spending someone else’s money is an easy-peasy decision. Living off of those who do pay taxes, parents and others, is a no-brainer for the average mush headed teen or young person. Just sayin’.
Romney got reamed by the media for pointing out that people who don’t pay taxes have no interest in plans to cut tax rates.
They should. It would likely increase tax revenues at least in high tax jurisdictions. Consult Laffer.
That’s because the media is part and parcel with the Marxism now being taught to our kids in schools, all across America!
It gets complicated with Social security. If that is your only income, you need to collect over $50k a year before you pay taxes. If you have other income like I do, it’s half your social security plus other income. In my case, unless the tax laws are changed, I am going to be paying taxes for the remainder of my life. In my case, the limit is a personal deduction of $14,700 +half my social security. Anything over that is taxable. There is a work sheet in the 1040 instructions Page 32 that lead you through all the ugly calculations.
Still I agree with the possible exception of Social Security, no taxes, no vote. On the other hand, you could have the requirement that they do their own taxes. Dealing with tax law really makes you understand how messed up the government really is. Also don’t get me started on capital gains. That is really messed up.
Back in the day, the BBC had a comedy “The New Statesman” featuring Rik Mayall as a super-Thatcherite Conservative MP called Alan B’Stard.
One of his clarion calls was “No representation without taxation!”
I think the historical significance of the joke was lost on most of the audience.
I think the basis of the idea was that voters would be those who are emancipated. Maybe age is a too-simplistic assumption. Paying taxes would probably be a good measure, being in prison wouldn’t, living in your parent’s basement wouldn’t, etc. Heck we can start a whole bureau of voter assessment at taxpayer expense…./s
I’ve long thought that the ticket to the voting booth should be the signature line from a Form-1040. They no playa the game, they no make the rules. (Stolen from a former Sec of Agriculture.)
https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=understanding-the-teen-brain-1-3051
At that time, most taxes were land based, so a requirement to own land was a proxy for paying taxes.
Poor people didn’t own land, therefore they couldn’t vote.
They also didn’t pay taxes.
Regardless, about 90% of the population were farmers, and most farmers owned land.
I think that the voting age should be raised to 35. Under that age, nobody knows anything.
I’d lower that to age 30. At least from what I’ve seen no one is really accepted in business until they’ve reached age 30 or so. Until then they haven’t been independent long enough to have learned from their own mistakes. They can only parrot other people’s theories and suggestions; which, makes them more easily trainable. Of course that’s why some would lower the voting age to 16.
When I was a know-it-all 16 year old, I was appalled by how dumb my father was. When I was 36, I was amazed by how much he had learned during the intervening 20 years. Now that I’m 76, I think I have forgotten most of what I was sure that I knew.
Gettin’ old is a bitch but it can lead to wisdom, unfortunately, not as frequently as preferred or as common.
When you can’t find the answer to an important question, ask a 16 year old – they know everything.
I wouldn’t pick a number. i would have a point system You could get points by things like having a full time job, graduating from high school, serving in the military or as a first responder, getting married, having children, and lose points for commititing a crime, non support of your children, abandoning your spouse, not paying your taxes,living on welfare, tattoos.
A 25 year old who has graduated from high school, done a tour in the army, gotten married, had a child, has a full time job ought to be ahble to vote. A 30 year old unemployed drop out drug addict shouldn’t.
The whole debate must be forever (or until all of today Twitter liberals are dead(*)) be shaped by Kenosha.
Age is a fiction for liberals.
The 17 years old Rittenhouse was too young to have a long gun. (Leaving aside the time of day.)
So he was guilty of a felony.
Which made the shoots felony crimes.
So they wanted him guilty of felony murder.
So it was murderous for Kyle to be a minor. That’s the whole thing. They don’t have another legal basis for their legal demonstration: he was underage ergo he is a criminal.
So they judged hum as an adult.
I won’t ever get over that.
May be one of the more facially insane prosecution of the entire US history. Not the only unjust prosecution, or the most abhorrent, just the one that screams CRAZY.
(Donald Trump is still not prosecuted for failing to (ab)use campaign fund to pay horse face, so not counting that one. We’ll see.)
(*) when they are dead and they lose their voting rights and they stop voting
When has being dead ever stopped a liberal from voting?
They don’t even have to be a liberal! Just dead!
Meanwhile far far away in the adult world designed to “promote a culture of debate, respect and a hunger for knowledge” it’s welcome aboard Tony-
Abbott joins contrarian climate think tank (msn.com)
Good news
Great, just what we don’t need, more uneducated voters…
Clima-Change™ may cause increasing numbers of teenage registered voters not to go out and actually vote.
NYT laments: “Why Don’t Young People Vote, and What Can Be Done About It?“
Have they demanded to pay any taxes?
Thought not
Most 16 year olds works part time at minimum wage level which is small amounts of money while living in their parent’s home.
They are doing very little at that age to be qualified to vote on important matters that is faced by adults.
Meanwhile if they are not smart enough to realize there is no evidence for a climate crisis, they are clearly not ready to vote rationally on the subject.
16 today will doubtless become 14 tomorrow
Until they get enough votes
Eventually they’ll run into voters without the hand-eye coordination to fill in the circles on the ballot without coloring outside the lines.
And who managed to brainwash these children?
The ADULTS.
Make that SOME of the adults! Not all of them!
In every country, the Bolsheviks demand voting rights for children. This is not madness, it is biology-based strategy. Why do they want children to vote?
At sixteen, you are totally driven by new hormones. These hormones drive you, at base existential level, to the following:
a) Finding a mate. This is high-competition stuff, exacerbated by Hollywood entraining young women to be prostitutes vying for the richest John. The average young man can only stand at the edge of Glamourtown, lusting after those beautiful, perfectly made-up sex kittens. By the time he meets the third bitch to tell him “I’m out of your league, boy!” the hatred towards the apparently rich “playas” takes root, possibly forever. Communism promises to eradicate that unfair difference, which surely means Charlise Theron will want to fellate me, too. After all, uncle Karl Marx says women are communal property…
b) Finding your place in society. This means having the money, sex kittens and sparkly vehicles of the rich and famous. In Communism, we are all equal (so they say) which means another differential is erased, I will also have a shiny car, because we will all have the same things. Or at lest we will both have bugger-all, and Charlise will have only our muscles to judge her lust by. Which is why we ban testosterone, so your muscles don’t grow bigger than mine, and both our peni shrink into raisins.
c) You suddenly have to earn your own living, pay your own bills, make your own destiny. Communism will give me a “proper job”, the State supplies everything I need, and in the Hive, where there is only fate (predetermined track of experiences) I have no fear of effing up, because, without the need to work to my own destiny, my life is preplanned and structured by experts who know more than me about everything.
But, once again, the “based thinkers” will bring up every argument and invective taught them by the same Bolshevik teachers, instead of approaching the issue scientifically.
I.O.W: Who will guide the youth through those scary hormonal years, when the parents are too busy and the teachers all work for Zog? I know, let’s leave it to the experts!
Why not? It’s not like they’re being indoctrinated by the left, is it?
Not many, Benny.
In the USA the left wants to augment it’s pool of potential voters, leading to both uncontrolled immigration and attempts to lower the voting age. As a child’s brain develops the neurons (also sometimes called morons) become more adept at transmitting various brain waves, like alpha, beta, theta, delta, and the biggie: Gamma Waves. Allowing voting could be controlled by a simple EEG, leaving children, very old, totally insane, and low IQ out of the process. These are all categories that the left gets disproportionate voting levels from, so, never mind.
To sum it up. They need more dupes!
Nobody has mentioned the progressive basket cases known as Scotland and Wales…
“In the UK, the “standard” voting age is 18. This is the age you are able to vote in a UK Parliamentary election. In England and Northern Ireland, this applies to all elections within their jurisdiction.
However, in Scotland and Wales, the voting age is 16 for local and devolved government (Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly) elections. “
https://www.thenational.scot/politics/20073049.can-16-year-olds-vote-scottish-local-council-elections/
They’re in a real mess, Scotland now has three de-facto genders: Male, female, and rapist. Pass the popcorn.
As one of the first few groups to be able to vote at 18, I think I followed the voting habits of my parents. Aged 16 most of my contemporaries were likely to have voted for the liberal party rather than Labour (Harold Wilson) or Tory(Edward Heath).
This is in the U.K.:
16 year olds have to be in education or in an apprenticeship until they’re 18. They can only join the armed forces with parental consent and cannot be deployed to the front line of any conflict. They can get married at 16 with parental consent. There are limitations on what they can drive, not cars. A person needs to be 21 before they can drive an HGV.
A person of 16 is considered to have mental capacity to make their own decisions.
My mother left school at 13. I left school at 16 Now it’s 18
In 1940 18 year olds were doing a lot more than worrying about their online profile, their pronouns and ideas they didn’t like.
I am a WW2 history buff. In that conflict, teenagers served as commissioned officers in the USAAF as pilots, navigators and bombardiers. They sometimes commanded a 10-man bomber crew and were responsible for what would be multi-million dollar aircraft today.
My, how times have changed. Could it be that maturity grows to match expectations?
Perhaps, but our expectations for 16 year olds today are very, very low.
Well, yeah.
Indoctrination fodder.
So these kids should get to decide to dismantle the whole modern technological society but it was abusive so suggest that a minor (Saint Greta) should have some fun?
Also:
If they can vote, they should have the same access to guns as adults. Guns are quite simple beasts – not counting tactical situations.
Also, if they can vote, old adults should have the same right to have sex with former “children” (American gun control activists count 17 years old killed in gangs fights as “children killed by gun violence”).
Your country has a Red District?
Want “children” to vote? Then discuss them being subject to the same prostitution laws.
“Former children who can now vote” in the Red District.
To me that isn’t even negotiable.
I want to see a refutation of that.
niceguy, there’s a movement even for that sort of stuff.
They can’t even get the basics right. At 16 you are allowed to get a learner’s permit, which enables you to drive when accompanied by a licensed adult driver. Are they proposing a learner’s permit for voting with an adult next to them while they vote? To get a provisional P1 license (restricted license) they need to be 17. To get a P2 (restricted) they need to hold a P1 for 12 months , so minimum age is 18. Provisional drivers have passenger restrictions and restrictions on the type of vehicle they are allowed to drive, in particular being restricted from driving any performance vehicle.
To get a full unrestricted license you need to hold a P2 license for a minimum of 2 years, so the minimum age is 20 (assuming you did each of the above steps at the exact minimum date).
Using the SMH logic we should be raising the voting age to 20 to match the date you can get a full licence.
A learning permit to vote? Assisted voting?
Dual pedals voting machines?
What you’re describing is limited licensing in order for drivers to slowly learn by experience. While that doesn’t directly apply to voting, requiring that someone have at least several years of financial independence and, preferably, business experience before voting increases the probability that their vote is based on their own experiences rather than just parroting other people’s theories and suggestions. Setting the voting age to thirty at least increases the probability that the voter has had five or more years of financial experience and has some skin in the game.
But we don’t let them smoke or drink until they’re 21 because they’re not mature enough to make those decisions.
During his term, Obama argued that kids should be allowed to stay on their parents health insurance until they were 26, because obtaining insurance on their own was just too burdensome. I don’t think any person should be considered an “adult” until they’ve accepted all the responsibilities of being one.
So by Obama’s standard, I think the voting age should be 26.
I remember the film from 1968, “Wild In The Streets” that explored the idea of decreasing the voting ages.
“For mature audiences”. Ironic.
The main reason most people of voting age don’t support radical action for climate change is that they were not brainwashed as children to believe the world is going to overheat in less than ten years. That’s all changed in the last twenty years, now they all have it pounded into their heads
Ages 16-21 should need to complete an in-person test of their knowledge of the key policies and candidates of all nominated entrants for political office, and why these are favorable or unfavorable for the country.
Single-issue knowledge attracts an F every time.
No exceptions.
How about that test for all voters?
Good idea!
At one time I thought Ranger Rick was *the* authoritative source on what we used to call “ecology.” Thankfully I wasn’t capable of disposing with a nation’s lives and incomes just because I felt sorry for the victim animal of the week. The demand for a lower voting age is a confession by the agitators that their cause doesn’t appeal to grown-ups.
What does it say about the democrats that they think they will get the vast majority of votes if they can expand voting to the people who are demonstrably the world’s worst decision makers, minors, illegal aliens, and felons?
I’m guessing you are trying for a rhetorical question. You may be statistically correct but, there are nuances.
Not all minors are irresponsible drones.
Illegal aliens are exploiting the situation to try to improve their lot in life. Not really showing a lack of intelligence – desperation makes for risk taking. I think a lot of Cuban illegals would vote to get rid of socialist governmental policies.
Felons have failed the intelligence test – they were caught. That is the perfect democrat voter – unintelligent.
“Not all minors are irresponsible drones.”
Name both of them.
Look at all the youngsters that join Campus Reform and the Leadership Institute. That’s thousands.
Hope is not lost.
I merely said they were terrible decision makers Brad. Illegals choose to run away from the social ills that they chose to do nothing about. Then they come here and choose whichever politician promises the most free stuff, and they end up just as powerless and impoverished as before. They make terrible decisions and have children who will never be taught good decision making skills because their parents have none. Given a proper education they would probably do well, but that is increasingly unlikely here in America.
I would raise the voting age to 25 and require proof of financial independence.
IE, if you are still living in your parents basement, forget about voting.
No representation without taxation. Raise the voting age to 22 or 24, that way most young people will be out of full time education and earning. If they are not paying tax they don’t earn the right to say how it should be spent.
Lower the age of viability to conception to drive humanity.
That said, 16, maybe. There are boy and girls who reach a conservative (i.e. moderate, stable) state of life early.
Ross Gittens was once an intelligent individual, and a great reporter. Now he is apologizing for the natural change in climate.
I wonder what happened to him?
Schoolkids, don’t you just love them in their teenage years. Testosterone and hormones surging through the body. Just the sort of voters we need. More irrational than the dysfunctional voters within the current voting age.
Have a wonderful day.
All I can think of when I read or see these kinds of notions of giving children more power is that episode of the original Star Trek where the crew of the Enterprise beams down to a planet ruled by children. Kirk and the crew discover that a disease has killed off all the adults (once the children hit puberty they also contract it and die) and the children have been left to do as they please. They run wild, get into mischief and gang up on the crew and attack them. All they want to do is run around and play (despite their food supply running low) and get rid of adults who might try and tell them what to do (and not do).
In other words, the “moral” of the show (back when tv shows and movies often had morals) was that kids are simply too immature to run anything! It was true then and it’s true now.
I remember turning 18 and being able to vote for the first time. I pretty much voted the party (I chose the same party as my mom though she told me I had a choice and didn’t try to influence me) as I had no interest whatsoever in politics. But, I can also remember having some really stupid ideas when I was that age, like not understanding why the little mom and pop furniture store I worked at didn’t offer health insurance (once I was no longer covered under my parents’ plan). But, I was young and inexperienced in life and therefore I was unable to see things from the perspective of a small business just trying to make a small profit and get by.
I’d lean more in the opposite direction, given what passes for “education” these days. Maybe there should be a “life credits” score of being gainfully employed and paying taxes before you get a vote – forget about it being a “right” the moment some age is attained.
The whole “vote for the people who promise me more free stuff” cancer is destroying society, and that cancer spreads rapidly when more of the immature still living in their school and academia bubble and with the disgusting sense of “entitlement” to everything under the Sun are given “votes.”
I’m sure that giving the vote is just the start. Of course, they will also need to be able to drink, drive and carry semi-automatic weapons.
The real objective is to give 25 votes each to teachers. That’s a small group (especially when restricted to the teens) that is distinctly left leaning, and these days winnowed to be so by teacher training and employment.
Time and time again we’ve been told that teenagers’ brains are undeveloped and they can’t be held responsible when they are accused of crimes. Now we’re supposed to give them the right to vote.
Sorry, I don’t have any links as a reference and I’m not going to look for any, either. Dollars to donuts it’s the same people telling us both things.
Let’s change the voting age to 31.
The idiot Ross Gittins wrote:
This is patently untrue. I have no idea why people let journalists get away with claiming such rubbish.
“In my opinion, the main reason most people don’t support radical climate action to the extent many 16 year olds do, is adults with real responsibilities prefer to have enough money left to buy food, after paying all the bills.”
Several countries are reacting with horror at the extent that transport, food and energy bills are skyrocketing. They are installing pointless subsidies to support poor people. The trouble is, the skyrocketing of bills is not an accidental side-effect of green energy policies, they’re the main intent, so a few token subsidies won’t protect anyone.
Robert Heinlein once wrote a book in which you didn’t get a vote unless you’d served in the military. This must have been shortly after World War II. I always had a lot of sympathy for the idea.
That would be Starship Troopers (the book differs vastly from the movie if you’ve only seen the movie). Although it’s a theme that carried through a good bit of his other writing.
Dear Arlo Foyn Hill and Qing Ng,
I was once 16 for a year, and like you, I thought I knew it all, saw everything more clearly than adults. And, like you, I was also young and dumb. And too ignorant to realize it. Just like you and Greta.
Of course, in 1970 the “existential threat” facing us were small things like the Cold War, Nuclear Armageddon (We were old enough to remember the Cuban Missal Crisis. Ever hear of it?), Vietnam War, small stuff compared to the hypothetical threat of the magic molecule, Man’s CO2, which has the power to both heat and cool the climate at the same time! (Depending on the weather.)
No, a 16 year old is not ready to vote.
Sincerely,
Been There, Done That, Outgrew the Tee-Shirt
Let us look at some real world numbers on Youth and their voting.
Here in Oz the Greens have hovered around 10% of the vote for decades. They vary a bit each election cycle but have shown no real long term growth.
Yet it is openly accepted that the ‘Youth Vote’ is Green. First time voters love the Greens and the Greens even brag about this.
It is also a discussion point in some circles that ‘conservative’ voters are all old boring people and the sooner they all die from old age the better.
So, in theory the youth coming in a Green and the older going out are conservatives. So following this logic the conservative vote is declining and being replaced by the more properly educated green aware youth.
So the Green vote should clearly be increasing every year, right?
NOPE.
What instead is very clear is that Youth Voters stop caring about Youth Issues after a few birthdays and slowly drift to the right.
This, when you think about it honestly, makes perfect sense. Youth Issues are important to YOUTH. Not 20 somethings. You know who hates 17 year olds? 18 and 19 year olds. High School into uni is a big transition. Teenagers go from know all high school people at the top of their social group to annoying first year uni students who are yet to realise no one cares that they were once the cool kids at High School. Not just talking about environmental issues, but anything that favours teens over 20s somethings does not get much support by the 20 year olds.
Young people turn into older people within a single election cycle.
If anything we should be raising the voting age in Australia to 19. It would gut the Greens 😀
Young people are stupid, they should raise the age to 21.
YEAH! More ignorant voters, that’s what we need! The less they know, the better!
give the vote to all the aborted feotuses and let democrat ballot harvesters vote for them !!