What Does the Science Say? | Dr. Richard Lindzen | Jordan Peterson Podcast

The Dr Jordan B Peterson Podcast

Jordan B Peterson

Dr Jordan B Peterson and Dr. Richard Lindzen dive into the facts of climate change, the models used to predict it, the dismal state of academia, and the politicized world of “professional” science.

Richard Lindzen is a dynamical meteorologist. He has contributed to the development of theories for the Hadley Circulation, hydrodynamic instability theory, internal gravity waves, atmospheric tides, and the quasi-biennial oscillation of the stratosphere. His current research is focused on climate sensitivity, the role of cirrus clouds in climate, and the determination of the tropics-to-pole temperature difference. He has attained multiple degrees from Harvard University, and won multiple awards in his field of study such as the Jule Charney award for “highly significant research in the atmospheric sciences”. Between 1983 and 2013, he was the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Sciences at MIT where he earned emeritus status in July of 2013.

Dr. Peterson’s extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: https://utm.io/ueSXh

For Dr. Richard Lindzen:

MIT Page: https://eapsweb.mit.edu/people/rlindzen

  • Chapters –

(0:00) Coming Up
(1:19) Intro
(4:40) Why you should listen to Dr. Lindzen
(13:00) How Ivy league hirings work
(16:00) Harvard or MIT?
(18:00) Emphasis on racism in the sciences
(19:22) Administrators outnumber faculty and students
(20:00) Wasting time on a broken grant system
(22:00) There is no money for questioning mainstream science
(24:00) 1800’s science papers shock students
(25:30) Scientific journals are not endorsements of the science they publish
(27:40) 1970’s, they notice an increase in Co2
(30:10) Classism and religious warping
(33:40) Impoverishing ourselves for no reason
(38:00) Objections to the narrative
(40:00) Coriolis effect
(45:48) Jordan plays devils advocate
(50:05) Politicians base their policy on scientific summaries written by politicians
(53:20) Bjørn Lomborg: even if they’re right, it’s not a big deal
(54:22) Tipping points, how they actually work
(57:00) Averaging anomalies
(1:03:00) Climate threat still five thousand years away
(1:08:00) Computer models, limitations and benefits
(1:12:13) Fluid dynamics
(1:14:45) Models on top of models predicting nothing
(1:17:45) Where scientists actually agree
(1:21:10) Money corrupts, “Climate Scientist” did not exist in the 90’s
(1:25:10) Speaking for your values without asking you what they are
(1:28:00) Gatekeepers holding back the world of science
(1:32:20) Stoking terror, stifling science
(1:38:30) You’ll falsify your own psyche if you falsify your words
(1:43:00) Standing your ground, living toward truth

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Jeff Alberts
January 8, 2023 6:52 pm

I’m very surprised that there hasn’t been a story here about the persecution of Dr. Peterson at the hands of the Canadian Gov’t.

It’s scary big brother stuff.

Reply to  Jeff Alberts
January 8, 2023 6:58 pm

It seems he could talk his way out of it, brilliantly.

Elliot W
Reply to  Scissor
January 9, 2023 1:37 pm

The point of the harassment is, I think, to threaten everyone ELSE with the loss of their livelihoods should their thinking stray to the politically incorrect. Dr. Peterson can afford to be disbarred and he can afford to fight it. But your average professional psychologist, doctor, lawyer, X-ray tech, etc now knows full well that expressing an opinion not in line with Elite Consensus will be very very expensive and may be ruinous.
There has been an emboldening of professional harassment of non-conforming opinions in Canada since 2020.

Reply to  Elliot W
January 10, 2023 10:15 am

How many professors are being bullied behind the scenes for challenging their universities? How many are filing grievances?

Elliot W
Reply to  Sommer
January 11, 2023 11:44 am

I have relatives who escaped communism and the former East Germany. Both regimes used intimidation and harassment to threaten livelihoods to control people into complying with state diktats. This is the same.

May I add that Canada’s state broadcaster CBC, which is taxpayer funded, is refusing to cover this story? Speaks volumes.

Reply to  Jeff Alberts
January 8, 2023 7:44 pm

Its not the Cdn Govt its his professional association which can revoke his license.

I do not think it will come out well for them. If they they lose in court they will look like the left wing bullies they are, and fools to boot. If they prevail in court they will cast an entire profession whose reputation is already on shaky ground into further disrepute.

Either way, Dr Peterson’s audience and influence will grow.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  davidmhoffer
January 8, 2023 10:35 pm

My mistake, provincial government:

The Ontario College of Psychologists, the provincial government-mandated and supported professional body charged with regulating the practice of clinical psychology, is requiring that I undergo a lengthy course of “media training” so that I “more appropriately” conduct my online communication.”

Bill Parsons
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
January 9, 2023 12:34 pm

It’s not just the Canadian government. The psychiatric institute which does his licencing wants to force him to undergo “counseling” because of the “harm” he is doing by his speech. They can revoke his license. (WSJ, Jan 4):

What are these comments? Calling Elliot Page, the transgender actor, by his former name, “Ellen,” and the pronoun “her,” on Twitter. Calling an adviser to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau a “prik.” A sarcastic crack at antigrowth environmentalists for not caring that their energy policies lead to more deaths of poor Third World children.

Calling a former client “vindictive.” Objecting to a Sports Illustrated swimsuit cover of a plus-size model: “Sorry. Not Beautiful. And no amount of authoritarian tolerance is going to change that.” In Canada even offenses begin with “sorry.”

RE: (54:22) Tipping points, how they actually work

The point Lindzen makes is that there are no tipping points in climate.

Omitted from the “minutes” of the interview: there is no global mean or average temperature of the Earth. Lindzen asks, “How do you average the temperature at the top of Mount Everst with the temperature of the Dead Sea?”

As usual Dr. Lindzen is the calm antidote to the global warming hysteria – and greed – which drives the policy makers. I still consider him and Lomborg the best spokesmen to debate the alarmists – if only the alarmists would agree to debate. But… “settled”…

January 8, 2023 6:56 pm

2X is your friend.

Philip Mulholland
January 8, 2023 8:16 pm

Dr Richard Lindzen’s Research Gate Profile
His work has 16,246 Citations.
A serious heavyweight scientist.

Last edited 19 days ago by Philip Mulholland
Alastair Brickell
Reply to  Philip Mulholland
January 8, 2023 9:02 pm

Yes indeed and a modest man to boot.

Interesting about two papers published and then both editors fired! Such a sad state of affairs.

Chris Hanley
January 8, 2023 9:09 pm

Prof Lindzen is always worth listening to sometimes despite the interlocutor.

January 8, 2023 9:23 pm

I have had a fairly technical, but certainly not a scientific background. What an amazing interview, it touched on everything I have gleaned from other sources and in an easily understood and informative format. A great interview, I will certainly make sure I pass it on.

January 9, 2023 4:28 am

1:35:36 “Let me re-capitulate”

Hahaha, cut your head of again? You mean re-iterate Peterson! LOL!

Iain Reid
Reply to  zzebowa
January 9, 2023 5:01 am


capitulate does not mean what you think it means, it means to give in or surrender. Anyone can make a mistake, even you?.


Van Doren
Reply to  zzebowa
January 9, 2023 6:36 am
Michael in Dublin
Reply to  zzebowa
January 9, 2023 6:52 am

You can say that you are going to recapitulate the main points of an explanation, argument, or description when you want to draw attention to the fact that you are going to repeat the most important points as a summary. (from the reputable Collins English Dictionary)

There is an important nuance difference between reiterate and recapitulate. Peterson is correct.

Remember, He who laughs last laughs best.

Bill Parsons
Reply to  zzebowa
January 9, 2023 12:50 pm

Common usage of recapitulate just means to re-cap or summarize. An older meaning of recapitulation is the “laying out of terms” for parleying or negotiating and here your criticism may bear. The idea that Jordan Peterson is laying our both sides of the argument fairly in the manner of Bjorn Lomborg is a stretch. He hates the global warming catastrophe narrative and its censorious, coercive, anti-science advocates, and he makes this feeling clear.

CD in Wisconsin
Reply to  Bill Parsons
January 9, 2023 7:46 pm

“He hates the global warming catastrophe narrative and its censorious, coercive, anti-science advocates…”.

That makes two of us.

January 9, 2023 5:30 am

“What Does the Science Say?”

Whatever the media and gatekeepers say.

“This week, Peterson revealed that the regulator has been trying to take him down a peg or two. It has reportedly demanded that he undergo mandatory social-media ‘communication training’. And should he refuse, he could lose his clinical licence. This follows a series of complaints the regulator received about tweets Peterson posted over the past year. It says these tweets, posted to his 3.6million Twitter followers, are ‘embarrassing to the profession’.

The proposed ‘training’ is not just some box-ticking exercise. The college has provided a ‘Specified Continuing Education or Remedial Programme’ for Peterson to complete, so that he can ‘review, reflect on and ameliorate [his] professionalism in public statements’. And this ‘re-education’ will cost him up to $225 per hour.

There is no pretence from the Ontario College of Psychologists that any of this is about the quality of Peterson’s clinical practice. None of the complaints against him is from a former client. It is quite clearly his political views that are being targeted.”


The battles are far from over.

Michael in Dublin
January 9, 2023 6:16 am

The preamble touches on some interesting points that go far beyond the climate debate but have an impact on it. When my late wife began her nursing career in the sixties there were relatively few administrators in the hospitals. Today there are a large number of administrators but a shortage of doctors and nurses. I am sure this impacts negatively on the health sector both in Ireland and the UK as well as many other countries that go for a centralized and controlling big government.

As a scientist my son has noticed over the past twenty years the problems bureaucracy creates for researchers and how glamorized research that gives far less value for money is most generously supported by governments. I am sure by following the money trail in climate research we will find the the financing goes to the least beneficial projects, those that do the least to help us really understand some of the greatest complexities of weather and climate. Perhaps this is why there are so many with physics as their specialization among the critics of climate alarmism?

January 9, 2023 7:20 am

I watched the whole thing…a lot. Surprised Google censors allowed it…no doubt the algo will bury it. When signed in to yourube I always click not interested when CNN…MSNBC,,,etc are offered…..also report any left wing “hate” speech.

January 9, 2023 10:14 am

I missed the opportunity to meet Dr. Lindzen back in 2019 (I think) at one climate conf or another. (Don’t really remember…but I think it was at the Trump hotel in DC.) He was definitely one of the star celebs there though. Constantly surrounded by well-wishers and colleagues and etc. My rando-guy-from-the-internet street cred couldn’t piece that crowd. LOL.


Ulric Lyons
January 9, 2023 11:47 am

Still all being had about the Arctic. Rising CO2 forcing is predicted to increase positive North Atlantic Oscillation conditions. Positive NAO drives a colder AMO and Arctic.


Michael in Dublin
January 9, 2023 12:31 pm

Just seen a report that the U.S. Department of Energy will require researchers to promote fairness and inclusiveness to receive funding because according to them this is necessary to achieve scientific excellence.

This is hogwash and corruption. Governments when deciding which companies to bail out because of a threat of economic collapse make the worst choices and similarly squander the most money in worthless projects – something a private sector company cannot afford to do.

D. J. Hawkins
January 9, 2023 1:21 pm

I have followed Dr. Peterson in other forums. I think he is brilliant, humble, and has a lot of cogent observations on numerous social issues. Though he is not a believer, he takes modern woke Christianity to the woodshed for a well-deserved caning all the while staying well within the Christian paradigm. You could do a lot worse with your time than spend it watching his videos, or interviews, with him.

Last edited 18 days ago by D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  D. J. Hawkins
January 10, 2023 10:29 am

Have you seen his most recent video?

Jordan Peterson Warning You About CHAT GPT

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  Sommer
January 11, 2023 6:45 am

I have a son who is about 2 years away from college. I can’t imagine what that landscape is going to look like for him, but I suspect “chaos” is going to be a description we’ll hear a lot.

January 10, 2023 4:09 am

Really interesting interview; it is a pity that sound and video are badly un-synced on the second half… Is this a problem with the original or a consequence of a copy?

David Dibbell
January 10, 2023 3:52 pm

I finally took the time today to listen to this. Great respect for Richard Lindzen. Near the end, he said “Meteorologists know this is nonsense…”

Quite a few years ago now, I read Dr. Lindzen’s 1990 article “Some Coolness Concerning Global Warming” and thought it was very good.

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