Guest essay by Eric Worrall
Has the European Union finally crossed a line? Coffee importers who cannot pinpoint the exact geographical source of their product, and prove their product is “deforestation free”, are set to be locked out of the common market, potentially starving European coffee lovers of their morning fix.
E.U. seeks to block import of commodities that drive deforestation
By Bryan PietschToday at 5:04 p.m. EST
The European Union on Wednesday proposed a measure that would seek to restrict imports to “deforestation-free” goods and materials for countries in the bloc, in an effort to fight consumer trends that drive deforestation around the world.
Importers of commodities including coffee, cocoa, soy, beef, palm oil and wood — as well as products made from those materials, such as furniture and chocolate — would be required to identify the geographic coordinates of the land where the materials were produced. To qualify as “deforestation-free,” the land cannot have been deforested or degraded since Dec. 31, 2020.
The proposal — which would need to be approved by the European Parliament and E.U. member states before coming into force — was hailed as “groundbreaking” action to combat the climate crisis by European Commission officials. “We can’t ask for ambitious climate policies from partners on the one hand and export pollution and support deforestation on the other,” said, Virginijus Sinkevicius, a Lithuanian European commissioner for environment, oceans and fisheries.
…
Copa-Cogeca, which represents the European agricultural industry, said the tiered system — which the proposal called a “key feature” — was “incompatible” with World Trade Organization rules. The system could have “serious consequences on the future trading relationships and distort the competition on both the EU and global market,” the group said in a statement. As a WTO member, Copa-Cogeca said, the E.U. must “fully respect” WTO rules. Representatives for the European Commission did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
…
Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/11/17/eu-commodity-imports-deforestation/
I can’t help thinking the volume of paperwork generated by importers applying for approval for their product will cause more deforestation than any coffee growing operation.
The inner party will have Victory coffee
Naturally
Imagine that, banning products that “drive deforestation”…
No more wood for DRAX
No more products that use Palm Oil or Coconut Oil sourced from Brazil
No Biofuel
No Wind Power requiring clearing ANY forested areas
No Solar Power requiring clearing ANY forested areas
DRAX is in the UK, aren’t they out of the EU?
yup.
BoJo the Clown could remedy that
I suspect in name only!!!
Not really. Smoke and mirrors.
Lmao, +100
One does wonder why they singled out coffee…?
Perhaps some EU executive is building a porch or boat using mahogany swietenia?
Mahogany and Teak are excellent for dressing out MEGA-Yachts
Teak is farmed in a number of places worldwide.
Mahogany swietenia has not responded very well, as concentrated stands attract concentrated life forms that consume mahogany swietenia.
The same goes for many of the rosewoods and especially Brazilian Rosewood.
Their best growth plots are where the trees are widely interspersed. Teak grows happily in regular stands.
Mahogany swietenia is CITES 1 right now, at the request of a number of nations who found their trees disappearing. Yet a small nation seemed to have immense superabundance. That is as long as it’s neighbors had abundant of mahogany swietenia.
Mahogany swietenia is not forbidden from sale as existing stockpiles are utilized. However, the price per square foot has climbed and matches rarer woods.
The Elite will have coffee flown in by private jets under diplomatic immunity so there is no inspection.
The rest of us get soylent green …
Eco-Loons may be biting off more than they can chew by attempting to deny any Europeans their daily fix of Coffee.
I can only imagine how the Italians are going to take that. They like their expresso so the little spoon stands up in the super tiny cup they use.
The Italians and their expresso got nothing on the Middle East and their “Turkish” coffee. However their cappuccino is hard to beat.
Cappuccino is an Austrian invention. It goes back to the siege of Vienna by the Turks in 1683. After the besiegers had been routed by troops of the Polish king Jan Sobieski, the Viennese collected the spoils from the supplies left by the Turks, including large quantities of coffee, then rarely known in the rest of Europe. They knew how to brew the stuff however, but sugar was in short supply. So the brew was rather bitter. Then a Capuchin monk had the idea of adding milk to soften is impact.
Espresso
(Sorry for being pedantic)
Why? Pedantry is accuracy.
Our French cousins drink it by the bucket load!!!
Such bans on in-demand products always initiate smuggling and black markets, which invite organized crime.
Trust the EU or UN to expand the reach and power of organized crime.
The EU … is … organized crime …
Organ-ized? By which Organ??
Evidence the disaster of Prohibition in the U.S.
I would like to amend my previous comments (I hope everyone that voted for the CAGW crowd and their socialism plans starves slowly in the cold and dark) to include “without coffee”.
That’s my feeling exactly. The EU was never a good idea. Since when do bureaucrat employees get to dictate what people eat or drink?
Personally, I think the original idea of the EU was good.
Unfortunately, the monster didn’t stop growing.
I’m pretty sure that the original “idea” for the EU was, from the outset, “The Fourth Reich”.. It was sold, initially, as a trading partnership but was always intended to take more and more political control. And now, here we are with Germany pretty much in charge of “One People, One Realm, One Leader!”.. Okay, about six unelected leaders, but it’s pretty close to their ideal..
Rodney Atkinson (yes, Mr. Bean’s brother) has quite a lot to say on this subject (see http://freenations.net/).
It’s more like the United States of
AmericaEurope but without the Constitutional requirement for electionsAbout the nicest thing about living in the EU is being able to drive across international borders without having to go through Customs and Immigration. Actually, this is probably the only good thing about the EU!
No more. You are forgetting C19 passports. They were created to be enforced forever. Different systems in different countries; last minute changes to the rules of allowed/not allowed to circulate dictated separately by each country. The demonstration that the UE never has been a “union”, as its name states.
Sigh…I had forgotten that. We are going on an educational field trip to Gibraltar in a few weeks, this C19 nonsense could certainly affect that.
gibraltars locked down in spite of 118% vaxxed so xmas is cancelled apparently see SOTT webpage for the item on it
No! A little boy is going to be heart-broken! Thanks for the tip.
The main problem with that: criminals and terrorists can also go from country to country, taking their “gear” with them without being caught. That’s the other side of the medal.
Agreed, Redge.
I was loaned to the EU from the states to work on a couple of product standards.
Back then, it was a chore, sometimes impossible, to drive between countries in Europe, let alone bring/buy products easily across the borders.
Of course, back then, EU unelected bureaucrats were not obvious meddlers in government. They were simply the final incorporation level for standards.
EU bureaucracy is complex.
To change any one EU standard is an extremely difficult effort. It is easier to initiate a whole new standard work group than to directly modify an existing standard.
Causing standards to become regulatory red tape maze and obstacles to anything new.
Unless one happens to be well connected to EU upper echelons.
The concepts for EU commerce and common border policies were initially pleasant ideas.
EU’s growth into layered unelected tyrant and despotic bureaucrats is not pleasant or conducive to commerce and border controls.
If it had been left as merely an economic union, it would have been useful.
That was what the UK joined, an economic union, but as ATheoK points out it “evolved” into a monster – a bit like the UN
I would like to believe they had the best of intentions in the beginning, but being of sound mind, I know better. It’s never a good idea to hand over so much power to largely Left leaning bureaucrats, whatever the original idea was intended to be. It cannot work because none of them understand how free market economies work.
The following, though intended to be humour, is quite possibly the single best description of the EU ever expressed.
Yes Minister explains the EEC (EU) – YouTube
That’s brilliant it’s time to revisit “Yes, Minister” 🙂
I think I’m pro-EU and anti-Brussels lmao
The problem is; in today’s woke world, revisiting satire like ‘Yes Minister’ is out of the question. What do you think the reaction would be now, if someone dared to say Germany’s reason for joining the EEC (in that skit)?
Hell, even the author of ‘Harry Potter’ has been cancelled and uninvited to the 20th anniversary banquet. Can you imagine anyone making ‘Monty Python‘ in today’s PC world? It might even be illegal now, in Britain.
Since people willing gave up their rights and responsibilities.
well maybe they need to throw OUT their stupid laws re the degree of bent ness a banana or cucumber can have? the size colour etc for apples etc etc
because due to their insane requirements more food is trashed than sold
The bent banana meme was actually started by Boris Johnson in a newspaper article in 2016. It was part of his run up to the referendum on Brexit and was, as so often with him not based on anything true.
Bureaucrats shouldn’t be making “laws” in the first place. They forgot or never learned how a ‘free market, is supposed to work. The market is the regulator, not some over fed, over educated and over paid, chinless wonder. All the EU ever managed to do was increase costs with complexity and reduce efficiency.
And no chocolate either! Coffee may be high priority but chocolate is equally loved. All those Belgian chocolate makers will, hopefully, stop this foolishness in its tracks!
Not sure of that.
Most professional organizations in the UE are VERY dependent (often FULLY dependent) on the governments of their countries or (when their scope is supranational) on the bureaucracy of the EU. So they will produce a “statement” of “discordance” with those silly rules but, in the end, they will let them pass (through lack of reaction and information/mobilization of their membres). And then, all the “stakeholders” will happily look to the other side when a black market starts supplying the forbiden goods. If, hypothetically, I would say that there are some such black markets operating NOW, I would eventually be committing a crime or breaking any of the millions of EU rules and directives.
I do hope you are not correct about this but your experience with EU politics is greater than mine. But, hope springs eternal, I hope we are not reduced to buying our coffee and chocolates on the blackmarket!
Here in EU we will now only import coffee from Sweden and Iceland!!!
Apparently supplies from greenland and the arctic could be on the cards as Griff keeps telling us it’s going to ice free.I hedge that with the EU doesn’t ban the import of ice-free causing coffee beans.
But only by looking at what is happening now – what happened in the past it not important. Griff knows these things.
Grow the coffee in the Sahara. They did not mention anything about the high cost and CO2 emissions of irrigating all that land using water from desalination plants. As long as no forests are involved, it’s perfect. Also a much shorter transport distance to Europe.
Consume in Europe only what is produced in Europe (grow their own coffee)
Eliminates most of the transportation costs and associated CO2 footprint
Don’t worry, Greenland and Iceland will import Coffee from Columbia and Africa before reselling it to EU
I would assume someone works with a group offering certification of compliance with this rule.
For a small fee.
For a
smallfee.FIFY
They always start small, but they never stay that way.
Do these sycophants know the species name for coffee? Do they know where the species is from? How it was introduced in SA and other places? Who did that? When?
I am watching from afar Europe go down in flames (or in ice cubes), and to thing some years ago I almost moved there.
This is why Brexit.
Yep. The arrogance of Brussels is now irking Poland. No Pexit yet but stay tuned.
Reading about this today, I’m 100% for Polexit tomorrow, being a Pole myself.
This crosses the line. They want this proposal to be widened to more products in the future. This will simply ban food from being sold on the EU market, even if deforestation or “forest degradation” is legal. They already want to widen this to “other ecosystems”, so soon, ALL FOOD WILL BE BANNED IN EU.
They’re completely, stark mad. They’re engineering a mass hunger event, just like during the communist times. I think at some point, civil disobedience will have to become civic duty.
Unelected officials should never be given such power. They will always abuse it. The EU was a bad idea from the start and the average citizen knew it.
The Poles know the deal and their population has the pride and National identity to carry it out. Remember that is where the rot started for the last tyrants that dominated Eastern Europe for a time.
In the early 80s I was on a team targeted into Poland in the event WW III had started in Europe. I learned to admire them based on the country studies we did in preparing for that mission.
No one was coming to get us out IF we even made it in alive. But the way I figured it, our chances of survival 500 miles behind the FEBA were probably better than those on the front line had that nightmare come to pass.
To deprive the Brits of the good ol’ cuppa tea, would be the red-line.
I wonder if Darjeeling or Assam would be on BoJo’s virtue list after FLOP26?
This appears to be a storm in a teacup (or coffee cup). It only applies to land cleared in 2021 or later. And since the EU has been well supplied with coffee for hundreds of years all of those importers will not be effected. And one suspects that already most growers know where their farm is so listing the co-ordinates of it on various forms is hardly onerous.
You do not understand what regulation spleen is.
The fact that it applies anywhere is the problem.
One constant with regulations, and regulatory agencies, is that they always grow.
For ow it only applies to land cleared in 2021 or later, but that’s just for now. The reach of these regulations will grow.
Yes. Just see the evolution of the “ambitions” to reduce “temperature”, “carbon”, etc.: they start with wide or distant goals, then each year those goals are changed: reducing the increase of “global warming” temperature, shortening the period to achieve x% “emissions” or increasing the “x” in the percent reduction of emissions.
This is the way of EU: start something quietly, then changing it step by step.
The reason it won’t have effect is nothing to do with that junk. It’s Brazil what will happen is they will clear a forest area and use the co-ordinates for a different farm the same as the do for cattle. How does the EU think they are going to get compliance or audits?
What you are seeing is typical EU arrogance and stupidity.
Most growers do not export directly. The paperwork burden will fall on the middle men. The required certifications will mostly be fraudulent. Palms will have to be greased and there will be less money available to pay the actual producers.
So, given that real people will actually suffer, I would not call it a tempest in a teapot.
Why would the required certifications be mostly fraudulent? All coffee grown on farms that existed before 2020 would not be affected by this proposal. Globally coffee production is growing at about 0.5% per annum so at most only 0.5% of producers will need a fraudulent certificate.
Also soy and, in the proposal by the NGOs, maize.Soon rice, wheat, every single source of protein for humans…
I mean, what can go wrong with trying to legislate away the need for food?
“The Soviet famine of 1932–1933 was a famine in the major grain-producing areas of the Soviet Union, including Ukraine, Northern Caucasus, Volga Region, Kazakhstan,[5] the South Urals, and West Siberia.[6][7] About 5.7 to 7 million people are estimated to have lost their lives.“
Who is trying to legislate away the need for food? What they are trying to do is stop deforestation. Given that currently the world produces more than enough food to make everybody obese and also that yields are increasing thanks to added CO2 in the atmosphere where is the need for additional deforestation?
You are such an a$$. If I own “forest” and wish to use it for “agriculture” for other than forest materials, I have a right, in most countries to do so. But little Hitlers, or Stalins, or Maduros, or Castros like YOU feel YOU should be able to make MY production “unacceptable”.
There are vast areas of “forest” in the southeastern US that 100 years ago were farmland and are now forest. Are you saying that land should never be used for agriculture again?
Again, you are an a$$! No doubt about that.
err a word to the wise in aus managing to clear anything with trees over 50mm at the base!!! requires approvals and consents from councils and theyre being insane over land WE own and pay taxes on limiting ability to just farm. locals wanted a bathroom extension on an OLD home new greenlaws said it “might” be on a flyover path of black cockatoos and they had to PAY to get it approved for THAT reason on top of usual council building appr fees
insanity
its growing globally
If you own a forest in country A that does not give you the right to sell goods in country B. Countries are free to set their own rules on imports and can impose tariffs on goods like steel for example.
“Given that currently the world produces more than enough food to make everybody obese”
I have a friend (60 year old) who earns around $200 per month selling vegetables on the market. She’s also disabled. How lovely that the elites want to restrict and limit food for her by hiking up the food prices.
And about obesity – it is the richest elites who are not obese, because they can afford more expensive and more healthy food. In countries like mine (Poland), food expenses are already high enough compared to Western countries. For the poorest people, most of their earnings monthly are spent on food. EU will fix that – reduce their demand by making food unaffordable.
What gives them the idea they have the right to interfere with what takes place in other sovereign nations? The people who hand down such authoritarian edicts will never be satisfied with coffee only. They’re entitled parasites which only one goal in sight … absolute control.
Izaak,
Do you think there are more brain cells in your head, more trees on earth, or more stars in the universe?
I’ll give you a clue: the answer is trees
Sorry, Redge, it’s stars. By quite a margin.
That’s because I’m an idiot!
I meant stars in the galaxy
Brain cells: 86 billion
Stars in the galaxy: 100 billion
Trees on earth: over 3 trillion
I tend to agree. And am rather certain about the relative position of “cells”…
“What they are trying to do is stop deforestation.”
The best way to ENCOURAGE forest protection is to encourage market for forest products- without them, forest owners will convert the land to agriculture or develop it for industry or urban sprawl.
What gives you the idea that it’s any of the EU’s business?
‘Fair Trade’ and ‘Organic’ certifications are mostly fraudulent. Try a web search for fair trade organic fraudulent. It’s rampant.
Be careful, you are touching a very sensible point…
Only if the trees don’t freeze down 😀
“Why would the required certifications be mostly fraudulent?”
Are you sure that the CURRENT certification of many foodstufs and industrial raw materials (both produced in EU and imported) is not?
Isn’t Bureaucratic rule wonderful!
My local church put up a building.
All the necessary permits were satisfied and obtained.
15 years later, to get the permits to remodel the basement, we had to prove what time of year some trees where cut down for the original, approved building, because back then, the original PERMITTED building might have interfered with the breeding season of an endangered bat 15 years before.
(Fortunately we found a dated receipt for when the trees were cleared.)
Enjoy your coffee (and tea?) while you can.
There are Irrational zealots out there that are moving the bureaucratic ladder of control.
Wow, where did this insanity take place? As for bureacratic rule- I live in Massachusetts- probably the most burreacratic state in America. I’m a forestry consultant managing private woodlots. Every single thing I do is overseen by state “service foresters” as if I’m a builder of nuclear reactors. I spend more time doing paper work now than I do in the forests. It wasn’t this way when I started when Nixon was in the White House. All the paper work looks impressive- but, the work in the forests, by and large, isn’t any better. It was pretty good then and it’s pretty good now- but now we have this layer of very expensive bureaucracy. I and a few other private sector foresters refer to our ruling state people as “burros”.
Central Ohio
yuh, right- the rust belt- where real industrial jobs are now scarce but plenty of “burro” jobs!
Izaak? I assume you know where you live and where you work.
So… How quick can you give us the co-ordinates? You should know them already by your logic.
Also, you say the the EU has been well supplied with coffee for hundreds of years.
Ignoring the fact that the EU is not hundreds of years old, and assuming you are referring to the countries that currently make up the EU (and ignoring the fact that many of these countries are not – in their current form – hundreds of years old… 😀 ) we then have the question about the size of the long term coffee market. Has it remained the same size the entire period? Has it grown? Could it be considered to grow in the near or middle future?
Also, if your logic is correct and existing growers are not affected, then what happens with new growers trying to get into the market? Why is the burden going to be forced onto them? Is this some sort of market manipulation from Big Coffee?
Also, and this is the important bit, Studies Have Shown(tm) that the severity and frequency of Teacup Storms is likely to increase because of Global Warming(tm).
So It May Already Be Too Late(tm) and could be Worse Than We Thought(tm)
Hmm, during WW II most of Europe was drinking ersatz “coffee” if any at all.
Craig,
I have a phone with an inbuilt GPS. I can provide you the precise co-ordinates of my location very easily. Failing that anyone with a mobile phone and reception can use triangulation to determine their location to within a 100 metres or so.
Now all yo have to do is get the GPS location of a specific coffee bean. 😉
but can you prove that location has not been deforested recently?
It’s a shame you can’t find your ass with both hands when it’s so easy to find your geographic coordinates.
You forgot the flashlight
Now there’s the problem …
It only applies to land cleared in 2021 or later.
That’s very big of the sanctimonius gits isn’t it Izaak? Moi ancestors cleared the land for our pleasant needs including the Industrial Revolution but how dare you Les Miserables do that now to pull yourselves out of serfdom. Be off with you impertinent knaves and immerse yourselves in the bespoke hunter gatherer lifestyle. On second thoughts forget the hunter bit.
Izaak is also convinced that the only reason why Venezuela is an economic basket case, is because the US refuses to trade with them.
Every journey strts witth the 1st step. “Two weeks to flatten the curve” turned into going on two years of economic and human disaster. Man-made global cooling turned into 40 years of climate based fraud malfeasance and government overreach.
Like all other forms of rot, socialism never sleeps.
Vietnam and China are now 2 of the biggest producers of coffee, think the E.U. will ban imports from either? I doubt it very much.
Importers of commodities including coffee, cocoa, soy, beef, palm oil and wood …
Its a good thing that the UK left the EU, otherwise they may have been forced to convert the Drax power plant back to coal.
Not that I believed EU politicians aren’t crazy, but now they have crowned their crazyness.
Someone out there liking to drink mukkefukk in the morning ? (The one or the other substitute)
EU is both nuts and agriculturally ignorant. The best coffee comes from the arabica bean. (Bitter Robusta is used blended or in instant coffee, and is grown mainly in Vietnam.) Arabica originally grew only in Ethiopia in the tropical forest highlands understory. As Ethiopia deforested, production moved to central and South America highlands. Mainly Columbia and Brazil, but also some in Costa Rico and Guatemala. In those countries, coffee still needs some ‘forest shade’. Maybe not the original South/central American highlands wild forest, but still forest. Many fun details are in essay ‘Last Cup of Coffee’ in ebook Blowing Smoke.
As Ethiopia learned the hard way, arabica really doesn’t like deforestation.
Just went and reread Last Cup. The Arabica is also grown a lot on Java. And in both Java and south/Central America, about half is growth in those places with little or no ober story shade trees. The higher elevations need less, the lower elevations more, shade.
There is also a correlation with altitude – the better the quality of Arabica beans, the higher the altitude. Good coffee comes from mountainsides or tall hilltops. As far as I’m aware the majority of the areas being deforested are flat, lowland areas ideal for growing palm oil or other e-fuel crops?
Have you hugged your solar panel made in slave labor camps lately? The EU has no comment on that one except for subsidies for the purchase.
Climate Envoy John Kerry said that ChiCom slave labor was not in his lane when negotiating CliSciFi rules. FJB says we have to keep these issues separate in dealing with the ChiComs. Lets Go Brandon!
The AGW crowd is a never ending confederacy of dunces.
EU could better stop subsidizing biofuel. On how many millions of acres of biofuel producing products are grown, how many acres of forests have been burned to grow them? Who is doing wrong?
Nobody burns forests. The forests are thinned and that wood which has no other use goes to chips- if it doesn’t go to pulp or firewood. So, why do some of you keep saying that the forests are being burned? That’s as ignorant as any climate alarmist. Just because biofuel made from agricultural products is stupid doesn’t make biofuel from wood stupid. Managing forests is not highly profitable. Without all possible markets for all the wood- ranging from the best veneer quality timber down to the poorest quality trees only useful for chips- the land would probably be converted (truly deforested) for agriculture or urban sprawl. So, all you wood chip haters out there stop sounding as ignorant as climate alarmists.
Joseph Zorzin: “Nobody burns forests”.
WR: “Indonesia haze: Why do forests keep burning?The burning usually peaks from July to October during Indonesia’s dry season. Many farmers take advantage of the conditions to clear vegetation for palm oil, pulp and paper plantations using the slash-and-burn method.”
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34265922
Violators will be forced to shovel imported wood pellets for the cause.
There is always Ersatz coffee, made from acorns. Ask the Germans.
At least you can get FDA and AMA approved opioids.
There is at least one precedent
Ersatz coffee, made of non-specific organic material (often acorns) to replace real coffee, which was not available by the end of the First World War due to the Allied blockade of German ports.
During the Civil War, the southern troops made ersatz coffee from roasted Chickory. As a Boy Scout, we tried it. Not bad, but lacked caffeine punch.
It is still used in many European places. But it definitively is not the same s the real thing.
Switch to Postum!
Or chicory “coffee”. 🙂
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.HNuF7X_zYr-n4-KYVoHFdwHaJ4%26pid%3DApi&f=1
Camp Coffee
Horrible made with water but…
Delicious made with 100% milk
IMHO
100% milk is, err, milk? If you add camp coffee it’s no longer 100% milk.
The people might go without coffee but rest assured the stone faced bureaucrats from Brussels will never , ever, miss their daily cuppas. The rarer it becomes the more they will be bathed in the coffee of their choice and coffee presents aplenty. Thankfully the totalitarianism of the EU will never last as it always ends up destroying itself.
after half a thousand years!
European is getting less important every year. It is dependent on imports for most necessities.
What does the world really need that Europe exports these days?
porn
I don’t see cocaine in the list. Few products are more destructive of the environment.
I hope you keep your opinions in your own house and enjoy your uncocained lifestyle in its confines, cause if I hear your righteousness on my street expect trouble.
Most squares need a good bit of Ketamine and Cocaine to be bearable.
I’m sure the “deforestation free” certification will be as fraudulent as “certified organic”. Useless paperwork to make woke upperclass twits feel good about themselves.
You mean to tell me these caffeine concerns are only coming to the fore now?
Life cycle assessment of spray dried soluble coffee and comparison with alternatives (drip filter and capsule espresso) – ScienceDirect
I’m shocked! Shocked to the core I tell you!
It’s enough to drive a concerned chap to weak colour absent tea upon woking in the morning.
I have a question about CO2 absorption in a stable ancient forest. I would think that such a forest would be in CO2 balance. Plants that are growing are absorbing CO2 while decay from dying trees and plants would release CO2. Of course, in a forest fire, the fire releases the CO2 in a significant burst, but the resulting new growth, no longer shaded by tall trees, would stimulate CO2 absorption until a balance is reestablished.
If a forest is cut down and much of the wood is used to build a houses (essentially
sequestering the carbon since roofing and paint helps prevent CO2 generating
decay) and the forest is replanted or planted with coffee plants, that that will
stimulate CO2 absorption.
Not a biologist, so I am really wondering why an ancient forest is the ultimate in CO2 absoption.
It’s not the CO2, it is where the holy spirits live
I feel ashamed at my ignorance 😔
Modern day, large and powerful logging equipment does a great job chasing out those spirits. :-}
I learned that in “Fern Gully”.
never heard of that until now
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FernGully:_The_Last_Rainforest
You are absolutely right! Ancient forests can only hold so much carbon- it can’t continue to add carbon forever. Forest scientists have studied how forests grow for centuries. For each type of forest and for each location, it’s well understood and charts have been created to show the grow over time. In some old forests, death of trees can often exceed young growth before a new balance is achieved. It’s complicated- which is why all the hatred of the wood chip business I see here is dead wrong and I speak from experience, almost half a century as a professional forester.
Thank you Joseph. My engineering mind tends to assess scientific issues from a laws of thermodynamics perspective, so this makes sense.
Restrict…so only the elite will get as much as they need
The EC not EU role Europe. Even to break wind you must meet the regulations. Noise, odor, duration. All must be controlled or the planet will reach a tipping point. Fall over and spin out of orbit and burn up in the sun.
I gotta wonder if Biden met all the regulations during his recent time in Europe … or are visiting heads of state exempt?
Will be looking forward to getting more variety of coffee since the EU is taking steps to price themselves out of the market.
Well, if EU stops drinking coffee… more for me ~~[_]3 : )
Mark my word. There will be violence and even possibly murders over this. Don’t even think about screwing with my coffee. I may now wear glasses but I can still shoot a 3 shot group you can cover with a Nickel at 300 meters and nail the bull at 800 using the iron sight more often than not.
For me coffee is as essential as diesel fuel for doing my job and I am NOT a person to be trifled with before I get some of that nectar of the Gods down my neck in the morning or whenever I am awakened.
Truer words were never spoken. 50 or 60 million people forced to go through caffeine withdrawal all at once will be ugly.
Restricting coffee !!
Thin end of the wedge . .
“Renewables” cause major deforestation.
Exactly – the wind and solar farms, NOT good forest mgt. including the production of wood chips.
We buy whole beans and grind our own just before brewing generally. We do not buy Starbucks products but buy various brands. At home and in the truck I have Tim Hortons regular ground also.
Tim Hortons isn’t coffee
https://www.timhortons.com/our-coffee-story
The best bet is the Black Rifle coffee “Beyond Black.”
The rest of the world will have to endure cheap coffee until coffee producers cut back on production.
While europe proceeds with plans to pelletize forests for “zero carbon fuel”.
So sad
not it isn’t sad- it’s awesome as it helps American forest owners keep their land as forest rather than converting it to cotton farming or urban sprawl
the forests ARE NOT PELLETIZED- only a small percent of the harvested wood goes into pellets- the rest goes into high quality timber for construction, furniture, paper products
when are you forest mgt. haters gonna believe me?
Should work a treat. Smuggling appears to be a very effective thing in the EU. This will just add more to the gravy train. Meanwhile, I am sure the elites will still get their morning coffee. May be getting close to really p155ing the rest of the community though.
Only the elites will still be able to afford and enjoy their Kopi Luwak (civet poop coffee) after all other coffees are banned from the marketplace.
“No shit!” …
“No, I shit you not!”
… and they both laughed until they cried!
It’s only a matter of time before the EU becomes a completely authoritarian nightmare. Any administration composed of unelected, socialist bureaucrats is doomed to failure.
Kafkaesque
Exactly … an utter nightmare of meaningless complexity.
More for me.
-> “the EU finally crossed a line?”
I believe that is referred to as “Jumping the shark”.
Is deforestation a good thing?
No.
so this is of itself a good measure.
millions of acres have been deforested for wind and solar farms- no forests have been deforested for chips
Typical of griff to make a blanket statement.
I’m willing to bet that where your mom’s house is, was a forest at one time.
13 million trees cut down in Scotland to make way for unreliable wind turbines. Is that not deforestation?
the fine prints; SINCE dec 2020 seeing as almost everything BUT very new plantations need be some years if not decades old prior to harvest
its not going to affect older producers at all BUT will stop new ones finding an EU market
sounds good to those who dont read it though
That’s dumb. Most coffee is produced in higher elevations, in mountainous or hilly country with good “air drainage”. The places that the EuroGreenies are hyperventilating about are in the flatlands of the lower parts of the Amazon, where little coffee is grown.
hey all;-) Id say the EU may have a whole LOT more to worry about than where the coffee is from
ireland gibraltar now austria and germany upcoming shutdowns
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/austria-imposes-full-lockdown-vow-penalties-those-who-resist-germany-may-follow
This is great for UK and other countries outside the EU fence. Reduce the demand for products from the EU and their prices drop. Cheaper coffee all around (except in EU).
Hmm but think how much you could get for a couple of jars smuggled across the NI border?
245 years ago a tax on tea caused the American Revolution.
Could history repeat itself?
No.
I doubt the sheep in Europe will do anything other than switch over to chicory.
The president of Brazil is an enemy of the Left. Coffee is one of Brazil’s main sources of export income. Of course the Climate Mafia will use their propaganda machine to do as much damage to Brazil’s economy as they can.
Maybe they Europeans can do like the German Army of the 30 and 40s and brew meth in a cup to stay awake.
And the people have no say but those that do know better.
Puritanical Zeal through and through and through
Tell you what, howzabout banning anything/everything grown on land that was forest everywhere..
That should get the Required Result:- World Popoulation of less than 200 Million
Or what is telling, I notice so, is the ‘drug’ aspect
Coffee is a drug. Caffeine basically and not dissimilar to Nicotine
These being notable as ‘stimulant’ drugs – they wake you up
Other stimulants being, by example, MDMA Ecstasy and Cocaine etc
Notice that they are horribly ‘frowned upon’
Tobacco only gets away with what its continued use via a very long history and the tax revenue it generates.
Where-as the depressant drugs, are not frowned upon.
Stuff like alcohol and cannabis
But also sugar, especially when in the form of cooked starch. That is all it is, carbohydrate food = glucose. period. end of story.
We’re told that we ‘have’ to eat carbs because we need energy, alcohol is good ‘in moderation’ and cannabis is now given free rein
While stuff we evolved eating, saturated fat and animal protein which have no, zero, nil, zilch mind-bending properties what-so-ever are increasingly demonised in favour of the mind (and body destroying sugar.
You know it does that. People of the US, you spend $3.7 Trillion every year trying to fix the damage that shit does. Is that nothing to you – are you really THAT rich?
See the pattern.
‘Someone’ wants us all to be sleepy, chemically depressed and docile.
To have slow reactions, to be unquestioning dull thinkers with poor memories, generally ‘stupid’ and compliant.
¿Stepford Wives?
wonder why
what is really going on here
Good. Maybe the price will come down for the rest of the world that remains sane.
Pitchforks and torches time. Gas and heating oil are one thing: don’t mess with their coffee!
That’s mighty big of them.
Creeps….
How much of this wood ended up in boilers in the EU?
WSJ
SÃO PAULO—Deforestation in the Brazilian Amazon rainforest has reached a 15-year high, newly released data shows. The surge is prompting environmentalists and scientists to question the government’s willingness to meet the pledge it made at the COP26 climate summit earlier this month to end illegal woodlands destruction by 2028.
About 5,100 square miles of Brazil’s Amazon—bigger than the size of Connecticut—was denuded in the 12 months between August 2020 and the end of July, a rise of 22% from the previous year and the most deforestation in one year since 2006, according to Brazil’s space research agency, INPE.
The data release incensed environmentalists, who questioned the timing of the announcement. INPE uploaded its findings on deforestation onto a federal government database on Oct. 27—four days before the United Nations climate change conference began, an official at the agency said. The government only publicly released the data late Thursday.
Brazil’s Environment Ministry denied that it delayed the release of the INPE’s data, which are estimates based on satellite images. “We only had access to the data yesterday,” said a spokesman for the ministry.
Doesn’t seem that hard to beat. Check a map for an area that is not deforested, and claim that as the place where the coffee is grown. You really think someone is going to check? If they do, make a slight fix to the longitude, say sorry, and resubmit. Maybe just use your neighbor’s lat/long. Pay him a couple bucks for the privilege.
It must really grind the gears of the European Kommissars that the little black people won’t do as their told. Screw Europe.