Hydrogen! It’s the obvious and perfect answer to global warming caused by human CO2 emissions. Instead of burning hydrocarbons (fossil fuels) we can leave out the carbon part, burn just the hydrogen, and emit nothing but pure water vapor. H2 + O = H2O! Thus, no more CO2 emissions . Why didn’t anyone think of this before now?
Actually, the geniuses are way ahead of you on this one. President George W. Bush was touting the coming “hydrogen economy” as far back as 2003. (“In his 2003 State of the Union Address, President Bush launched his Hydrogen Fuel Initiative. The goal of this initiative is to work in partnership with the private sector to accelerate the research and development required for a hydrogen economy.”). Barack Obama was not one to get left behind on an issue like this. In the run-up to the Paris Climate Conference in 2015 Obama’s Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz announced, “[F]uel cell technologies [i.e., hydrogen-fueled motors] are paving the way to competitiveness in the global clean energy market and to new jobs and business creation across the country.” Then there’s the biggest hydrogen enthusiast of all, PM Boris Johnson of the UK, who promises that his country is at the dawn of the “hydrogen economy.” (“Towards the end of 2020, Prime Minister Boris Johnson released details of a 10-point plan for a so-called ‘green industrial revolution.’. . . This year will also see the government publish a Hydrogen Strategy that will “outline plans” to develop a hydrogen economy in the U.K.”)
And let us not forget California. If you look at my post from two days ago about California’s plans for “zero carbon” electricity, you will find a chart showing that by 2045 they plan to have some 40 GW of what they call “Zero Carbon Firm” resources. What does that mean? In the print below the chart, they reveal it: “hydrogen fuel cells.” (Their current amount of hydrogen fuel cells contributing to the grid is 0.)
So basically, hydrogen is the perfect answer to our problems, right? Wrong. Only an idiot could think that hydrogen offers any material useful contribution to the world’s energy supply.
For much of the information that follows, I’ll be relying on a June 6, 2020 Report written for the Global Warming Policy Foundation by John Constable. However, and not to downplay Mr. Constable’s excellent Report in any way, but I made many of the same points in one of the very first posts on this blog in November 2012, titled “The Hydrogen Economy.” That post was based mostly on my layman’s understanding of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Really, that’s all you need to know to realize that hydrogen as a major source of energy for the economy doesn’t make any sense at all.
So what is the fundamental flaw in the idea of a hydrogen-based energy economy? Constable puts it this way: “Being highly reactive, elemental hydrogen, H2, is found in only small quantities in nature on the earth’s surface but is present in a very wide range of compounds.” In other words, the hydrogen is not free for the taking, but rather is already combined with something else; and to separate the hydrogen so that you have free hydrogen to use, you need to add energy. Once you have added the energy and you have the free hydrogen, you can burn it. But that’s where the Second Law of Thermodynamics comes in. Due to inevitable inefficiencies in the processes, when you burn the hydrogen, you get back less energy than you expended to free it up. No matter how you approach the problem, the process of freeing up hydrogen and then burning it costs more energy than it generates.
Do you think somebody in our political leadership or bureaucracies might understand this? Don’t count on it.
Constable then goes into much more detail, and the deeper he gets into it the more ridiculous the hydrogen project looks. Since essentially all of the hydrogen starts out combined with something, where might you look to find a source of large quantities of hydrogen? Constable: “[T]he sources are few in number, being limited to either water, fossil hydrocarbons or biomass.”
The bond of hydrogen and oxygen in water is a high-energy thing that therefore takes a lot of energy to undo. So let’s consider getting the hydrogen from natural gas. Indeed, that is the main source today of substantial quantities of pure hydrogen for industrial purposes. Constable describes a well-established process called “steam methane reformation” (SMR) by which steam is passed through natural gas (methane, or CH4). The bond is broken and the hydrogen breaks free. Voila! Oh, but what happens to the carbon? Why obviously, it is released also, and thereupon combines with oxygen from the air forming CO2.
Wait a minute! The whole idea behind undertaking this expensive process was to avoid the release of the CO2. So clearly, we need another step. In the British proposal to create the “hydrogen economy,” they have had to include the addition of processes for “carbon capture and storage” to capture the CO2 before it gets away and prevent it getting into the atmosphere. Except that they haven’t figured out how to capture it all. They are hoping for capture rates of maybe 85 – 90%. So it turns out that this process, for all its additional costs, is not emissions-free at all.
And then there’s the next obvious question: Why not just burn the natural gas? Instead of having to input energy in the “steam reformation” process, this way you will release a large amount of useable and useful energy when the carbon gets burned. And as to CO2, you get the exact same amount. If you have a fetish that the CO2 must be captured, you can try to capture it from this process instead of from the “steam reformation” process. Again, you will not get 100%, but it’s really no different.
Except for the optics. In the first scenario, you claim you are burning “clean, pure hydrogen.” In the second scenario, you are burning natural gas, just as we have been doing for decades. Can people really be fooled by this?
Isn’t water vapor a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2?
But isn’t “you put more energy in than you get out” true of just about any battery? I agree hydrogen makes no sense for a fixed site grid power generation fuel. But how about as a way to store energy for transportation? How does the energy density and full lifecycle cost of hydrogen as a transport fuel compare to lithium battery cells? Presumably the cost of generating the electricity to “recharge” either a lithium battery or a hydrogen tank would be the same. They both emit no carbon while being discharged for transport. Does hydrogen have an advantage over lithium because of the much lower time required to recharge? Or is that advantage outweighed by other disadvantages?
“Can people really be fooled by this?”
Sadly, yes
Sheesh, just send it to Congress and have them change the law.
It’s all irrelevant anyways. Cold fusion is just 10 years away.
The Cal energy idiots foresee using solar PV farms exclusively to use electrolysis to make the hydrogen to use in fuel cells. Of course would only run for about 6 hours/day in the winter. You have to make lots of hydrogen to get through long winter nights.
The problem is standard hydrolysis methods are quite inefficient with a lot of waste heat generated in passing a current though water. And the scale they would need hydrogen is far from realistic in terms of storage.
The largest cryogenic H2 (LH2) storage tank in the world is at Cape Kennedy space center. Extremely expensive due to the maintenance (seals) and special steels and insulations involved.
No one has solved this issue of where the hydrogen is to come at the scale envisioned by the Green idiots. Then there would be the serious issue of getting the hydrogen to generation plants to feed the grid. No one has that figured out either.
Bottom line is hydrogen power for grid scale electricity is going nowhere without copious amounts of natural gas consumption to make even partial hydrogen power possible.
Oops. Hydrogen is usually combined. You have omitted any references to the newly confirmed cold fusion process.
In the last twelve months it has become apparent the cold fusion nut has been cracked. Even NASA has got a patent and apologised for previously putting it down.
There has been an enormous amount of work gone into discovering the process and uni’s world wide and their students have been passing test info and results around. It was like the early days of computing.
Cold fusion eventually came out to be simple when the keys were discovered. It requires hydrogen; form, not greatly significant. A metallic element which can act as catalyst. A small plasma AND an additional pumped oscillating voltage through it.
The process runs about 1000 deg C. or less and radiation is not a problem. Clean energy!
The argument about how the excess heat is produced may not be settled this century. The best seems to be that the hydrogen has its state changed by the presence of the voltage disturbing the plasma and its electron is shifted in the shell. A “hydrino” is the result and they have been shown to have their own spectral signature. They are also on offer freely to the world for investigation.
There are several contenders for commercial development. Andrea Rossi has been a long stayer and has a public demo organised for late November. He has very cleverly not only shown the process but is <em>harvesting electricity directly from the plasma.</em> Such a unit is only 20cm cubed with controls and has been demonstrated a year or so ago at a uni presentation with an output of 18.5 Kw. Power conditioning has been a problem bur Dr Rossi has recently announced he has achieved that using AI software and the whole process will be shown later this year. There is a lot to see on https://e-catworld.com
Another contender is https://brilliantlightpower.com
These are the hydrino people. They are showing a 250Kw boiler on their site and working on a 90%+ magnetohydrodynamic in-line conversion unit. They have several skilled engineers in their team and their plans for its use in driving ship, trains etc may well be realised.
This year may be a landmark one.
The advantages over hydrogen that methane/natural gas/CH4 has are so obvious that it emphasises how ludicrous it is to even consider H2. The two gases share similar disadvantages in terms of lack of filling stations and low power density, but an average to large car has adequate space to fill up with several hundred miles worth.
LOX and particulate emissions are extremely low, a plus in crowded European cities.
There’s one huge advantage of advocating CH4 as the intermediate fuel of the future. It would actually let politicians off the hook – they can claim it’s halfway to the hydrogen economy and as such we can avoid crashing Western civilisation for thirty years.
JF
That’s such a good paragraph. Hats off to you.
Cant wait to hear the discussion with firefighters on the hydrogen powered fire engines going in to fight bushfires. No really it is safe, it could be worse you could be using Li powered vehicles.
Lol
If it doesn’t work Doris will throw billions at it
In today’s Times it seems the government is offering grants up to £7000 to replace gas boilers
Luckily my boiler is only 4 years old and I won’t be changing what works for something that doesn’t
The colour of the H₂ is obviously important.
So far:
Green
Blue
Pink
Turquoise
Grey
Brown
Black
the Global Warming Policy Foundation
a mysteriously funded propaganda organisation with no scientific credibility
Best headline on a WUWT article for many, many years. Thanks!
The best information on Hydrogen I have seen is HARRYS GARAGE “Is hydrogen, rather than electric, the future for big-engined machinery? I visit JCB to find out”
A small quantity of hydrogen for special purposes may be worth the cost. But why not simply have a small, with an emphasis on small, pilot project doing research until they come up with cost effective and safe ways of producing and working with hydrogen before running ahead with very costly unicorn schemes?
Odd… Using hydrogen to avoid releasing CO2″, because CO2 is a “greenhouse gas”; but burning hydrogen will release H2O vapour, which is a more powerful “greenhouse gas”…
Am I missing something?
“You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.” — George W. Bush
Whoever told you that “greenies” neither listen to nor learn from Republicans was mistaken.
Everyone is missing the real value of Hydrogen.. Hydrogen –> Helium is the ticket. There are gazillions of these factories across the universe (and one just 93 million miles away) that do this 24x7x365 (366 on leap years). Just duplicate the process here on Earth and we got it. Easy Peasy.
We seem to be going over too a unreliable electric system where we can not control the output. Cloudy/ high sunny days, windy/ windless days so there will be a lot of over capacity to stop blackouts.
The excess would be ideal for making Hydrogen?
From my school days (a lot of years ago) Water and electric makes hydrogen. both will abundant in the future.
See Harrys farm interview with JCB on their work on Hydrogen.
Brother, you can’t “fool” the willingly stupid, got to come up with a new word to describe the process. It is funny, for over 40 years people have been screeching that hydrogen fuel technology is here, and yet it is still not here. If it was so great and inexpensive it would be widely in use already. Oh well.
It.should be noted though, that using solar energy (or even wind?) to separate hydrogen from water is a potentially viable route to reliable storage of that energy. I am not a huge proponent of either energy source, as the technologies currently exist, but if advances make either of them much more reasonable primary sources of energy a reliable means to store the energy is still required. Hydrogen *could* be that means on an industrial scale for grid management.
You are not allowed to do the math, or to use logic when it comes to climate.
How dare you!
Hydrogen is difficult to store because has very low volumetric energy density. It is the simplest and lightest element–it’s lighter than helium. Hydrogen is 3.2 times less energy dense than natural gas and 2700 times less energy dense than gasoline. Sounds like the perfect bomb to put in your vehicle.
Well, it could save the BBC some money.. they could recycle all the old stock footage of cooling towers that punctuate every “climate” story they cover, and use them to show that the “green” hydrogen powerplants are saving the planet…
No, they plan to burn unicorn farts, which are of course hydrogen. . .