mRNA: Persistence Rewarded

We’ve all heard many news stories about the messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines developed by Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna. The stories pretty much talk about safety concerns, the new technology behind them, and who gets them first. What they don’t talk about is the work that “tamed” mRNA for the task or the people behind that work. This week is a very good time to address that, as the two major researchers have received their first significant science awards for their work.

On Monday, Brandeis University and the Rosenstiel Foundation awarded the 50th annual Lewis S. Rosenstiel Award for Distinguished Work in Basic Medical Research to Katalin Karikó and Drew Weissman for their work making mRNA feasible to use as a vaccine. The biggest challenge was that early attempts at man-made mRNA were strongly immunogenic and killed the cells being cultured. Various grant sources saw this as intractable and funding dried up. That led to Dr. Karikó’s demotion at the University of Pennsylvania and removal from her full professorship track.

Katalin Karikó and Drew Weissman

As for the science involved, Khan Academy goes into more detail, but very briefly our DNA is read in our cell’s nucleus and active genes are transcribed into strands of mRNA. These “messages” leave the nucleus and are picked up by ribosomes which read the mRNA three nucleotide base units at a time. Whereas DNA uses nucleotides adenine, guanine, cytosine, and thymine. RNA uses the first three, but instead of thymine, it uses uracil. Each triplet of bases encodes for one amino acid or provides control information about where the protein starts and stops. There are 64 possible triplets, and most of our 20 amino acids can be encoded by multiple triplets.

The big problem is that uracil, I assume outside of a cell, triggers such a strong allergic response that typical mRNA can’t be used. However, Karikó and Weissman first changed triplets that used uracil with triplets that did not, but still encoded for the same amino acid. Typically, this requires replacing uracil with cytosine. A table at Openstax shows the possibilities. However, some amino acids can only be encoded with uracil containing triplets, and this had made other scientists and granting agencies abandon the concept. Karikó’s and Weissman’s main breakthrough came in 2004 when they discovered that uracil could be replaced by a very similar chemical, call it pseudouracil, that works much like uracil but doesn’t trigger an allergic response.

Finally, various fatty chemicals, lipids, are chosen both to protect the mRNA outside of cells and to merge with cell membranes. That releases the mRNA payload into the cell’s cytoplasm where it is picked up by ribosomes to create the the desired protein. In the case of SARS-CoV-2, it’s a spike protein that is exposed on the surface of a virion (individual virus particle).

Dr. Karikó first started working with mRNA and its therapeutic potential in Hungary in 1978, and carried it to University of Pennsylvania in 1985. While there, she met Dr. Weissman at a photocopier where each discovered the other’s interest in mRNA. Replacing uracil not only eliminated the allergenic reaction but created mRNA strands that were longer lived and more productive. While Weissman has stayed at the UPenn, Karikó joined the German company BioNTech in 2014 as Senior Vice President to explore mRNA applications. The pharmaceutical company Pfizer took notice and joined the effort. Their work on treatments for various cancers and pathogens like HIV, malaria, and influenza primed them to jump on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic and start experiments with mRNA soon after the genetic sequence was published.

The rest of the story has been well covered by the press in all countries, pretty much all the time. It’s time we heard more about the back story and the people who persevered to make this possible. On Feb 5th I received my first dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. Thank you, Dr. Katlin Karikó for devoting your career to adding mRNA to our therapeutic arsenal. And thank you, Dr. Weissman for joining that effort.

Further reading:

Reverse Engineering the source code of the BioNTech/Pfizer SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine describes mRNA science in general and then the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in particular. The article includes other aspects I didn’t mention above like changes to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein to stabilize it in the shape seen on the virions. It was bit challenging only because my usual source for keeping up with such science, Science News, has let me down on this subject and have published nothing on Karikó’s and Weissman’s work.

The story of mRNA covers both the work at UPenn and also the creation of Moderna and BioNTech to commercialize mRNA therapies.

The home page for the Rosenstiel Award has information about past recipients, several have gone on to win Lasker and Nobel awards. I watched the new award ceremony online, apparently with 2,000 others, I hope they’ll put it online soon. The acceptance speeches are more about mRNA history and biology than thank you notes.

mRNA technology has an incredibly bright future beyond theraputics. Protein and enzyme synthesis of all sorts has suddenly become easier to do and has promise for agricultural, food, and industrial processes. It will be fun to watch it grow.

Update:
Brandeis has uploaded the award presentation. Here is a table of contents:

  • 0m10s: Ron Liebowitz, President, Brandeis University: Introduction
  • 3m40s: James Haber, Director Rosenstiel Basic Medical Sciences Research Center: Summary of RNA science and the research behind the award and the vaccine.
  • 10m59s: Derek Rossi, Cofounder of Moderna: More on DNA, RNA, and proteins, why scientists hadn’t used mRNA in their work, and why Karikó’s and Weissman’s work is so important.
  • 31m45s: Karikó, Senior Vice President of BioNTech RNA Pharmaceuticals: History and science of her work with mRNA. (The year of the research is in the lower right corner of her presentation.)
  • 56m07s: Anthony Fauci, Director, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases: Prerecorded congratulatory comments.
  • 1h00m15s: Drew Weissman, Co-Director, Penn Center for AIDS Research: Various approaches to SARS-CoV-2 vaccines, e.g. Astra Zeneca and Johnson & Johnson’s. Also, how vaccines compare, the time line that allowed them to be developed in ten months, and notes on side effects.
  • 1h20m39s: James Haber: Notes on Brandeis’ natural science research and the Rosenstiel Foundation.
  • 1h22m37s: Ron Liebowitz: Closing comments.


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Old Retired Guy
February 10, 2021 6:53 pm

Penn State. How interesting. They obviously fired the wrong person.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 10, 2021 7:10 pm

Here in Australia, I for one will never take any vaccine for SARS-COV-2 given what I now know about the PCR test.

It’s a SC@M!

John Tillman
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 10, 2021 8:07 pm

Oz has been in the forefront of treatment research, repurposing already approved meds such as Ivermectin, dexamethasone and asthma inhalers.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  John Tillman
February 11, 2021 4:11 am

yeah NONE of which is getting the nod or media attention worth a damn
its all fearmongering vaccine pushing hype 24/7 right now

TRM
Reply to  John Tillman
February 11, 2021 2:24 pm

Dr Thomas Borody has been going on about the Ivermectin+Doxycycline+Zinc protocol since August 2020:
“It’s easier than treating the flu now”.
“You can actually eradicate it”.
“We know it’s curable”.

And after 14 RCT studies with DATA PUBLICLY AVAILABLE (unlike the vaccines).and dozens of observational studies it is still being ignored.

Add in the doctors over at flccc.net and their research and results and yet their calls for greater access fall on deaf ears. They presented their info in a senate hearing in early December 2020. In mid January 2021 the government changed their stance to “neither recommend or not”. Yippie kie aye

Marc L.
Reply to  TRM
February 13, 2021 6:27 pm

India has made this kit widely available for its people:

! VIRUS VACCINE! (14).jpg
commieBob
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 10, 2021 8:18 pm

You’re in your summer right now. I’m very curious to know how Australia does when flu season comes ’round.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  commieBob
February 10, 2021 8:42 pm

Yeah, still summer for another 3 weeks so it will be interesting to see what happens however, Federal Govn’t plans to vaccinate the vulnerable in the coming weeks to nicely coincide with winter.

Greg
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 13, 2021 11:07 pm

The naive assumption that covid-19 is seasonal nows seems anchored in the global psyche despite there being no evidence and despite laboratory studies which show that sars-cov-2 ( like other beta corona viruses ) does not have the same response to temperature and humidity that influenza does.

The current epidemic in UK peaked on 29th Dec 2020 in terms of +ve test results per day. It is now at a <20% the peak figure.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases

It is still firmly winter in the UK. Hint: there’s snow.

Last edited 5 months ago by Greg
Patrick MJD
Reply to  Greg
February 15, 2021 12:25 am

Media and politicians are driving the scare with vaccine available in time for winter. It falls in line with my view there will be a call for a federal election.

Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 10, 2021 10:58 pm

I feel for you, but don’t get stuck on PCR (which is NOT a test, it is a methodology for replicating nucleic acids in preparation for testing in various ways. What you need to research is the process whereby (RNA) mitochondria produce proteins after reading your personal genetic code via mRNA. The article, being a self-serving bit of fluff, got it wrong.
I offer you a very simple explanation of the purpose of the Holy Communion as practiced by Christians, no religion involved, just the science. With that, I give you another few words on GMOs and how that works. I am no biologist, but this is important enough for me to have paid attention to the basics. I hope you read the two links, then I ask you to contemplate this: Vaccines are grown in live cell cultures, most of them using cells from cancerous aborted foetuses. Do you want that RNA in you?
Read this before you decide:

https://www.greenpets.co.za/index.php/en/2-greenpets-natural-happiness/267-holy-communion

https://www.greenpets.co.za/index.php/en/51-greenpets-natural-happiness/natural-living/biome/195-gmo-toxicity

Last edited 5 months ago by paranoid goy
Patrick MJD
Reply to  paranoid goy
February 11, 2021 12:29 am

I feel for you, but don’t get stuck on PCR (which is NOT a test, it is a methodology for replicating nucleic acids in preparation for testing in various ways.”

That’s the point. It is not a test. It captures a tiny fragment of someone’s DNA/RNA and HAS to be “amplified” so many times to get any usable sized sample. The METHOD used introduces errors exponentially with a Ct of 25 or more. It’s being used inappropriately to “show” how “bad” COVID-19 is when the resulting “cases” are not a measure or indicator of REAL disease and REAL INFECTION. Even the man attributed to its creation stated so. Remember, right at the start of this SC@MDEMIC it was all about flattening the curve to prevent health systems from being overloaded BASED of BS computer modelled predictions by Pr. Ferguson of Imperial College London which all proved to be WILDLY overstated.

Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 11, 2021 1:19 am

I have time while rendering…
PCR does not introduce errors. It has been shown that the gene sequence of 17 letters the scamdemicists are looking for, occurs naturally on genome number 8 of the human nucleus. But that is not the main problem, as far as I’m concerned.
They take a ball of snot. In there is your DNA and RNA (The human genome sequence) plus the R/DNA of the gnat you inhaled, plus whatever was in that speck of fly shit you inhaled, plus the fungi spores you inhale all the time, plus some shed cells from your neighbour’s cat, plus plus plus. ALL this gets multiplied by the PCR replication machinery.
To get an idea: If you take one single strand of nucleic acid, and replicate it ten times, you have 1024 copies (2^10) After twenty cycles, 2^20 = 1 048 576. After forty cycles, you have 1 099 511 627 776 TIMES THE CELL COUNT OF EVERY SINGLE ORGANISM in your snot.
To find a measly 17 acids in a row that corresponds to the little fraction of the “covid spike sequence” is like tossing a penny a quadrillion times and finding copper.
And that, sir, is why PCR is useless at finding a virus in your snot. Because the penny always contains copper; we must rather be concerned about the times PCR does NOT find that computer-patented virus!

Patrick MJD
Reply to  paranoid goy
February 11, 2021 1:42 am

I think you are the only one who thinks no errors are introduced in the “copying” part of the process. At Ct 25 the copies run in to billions.

Last edited 5 months ago by Patrick MJD
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 11, 2021 1:56 am

Over 33 billion copies to be exact. Errors, however, are scarce. That’s why the process won a Nobel, it is reliable and fast. It is the total lack of isolation of the target nucleotide that is erroneous.
I really spent some time clarifying my answer, at least do me the decency of reading it before you attack me?
Which also tells me you did not bother to follow my links the first time I answered you. Those were real simple short reads. Oh well…

Patrick MJD
Reply to  paranoid goy
February 11, 2021 10:51 pm

I really spent some time clarifying my answer, at least do me the decency of reading it before you attack me?”

Where did I “attack” you?

Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 12, 2021 2:39 am

“…I think you are the only one who thinks no errors are introduced…”
or is that the way you talk to yer mama?

Patrick MJD
Reply to  paranoid goy
February 12, 2021 8:49 pm

That’s an attack on you in your opinion? God heavens. Most would call that an observation based on evidence available.

John Tillman
Reply to  paranoid goy
February 11, 2021 6:55 am

Do you mean chromosome #8 of the human genome, which, yes, is in the nucleus?

Reply to  John Tillman
February 11, 2021 10:41 pm

That one.

Greg
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 13, 2021 11:55 am

jeez, chill out guys, I was not even aware there was much of a difference of opion until the “attack” claims started.

PRC at 25 cycles maybe a useful indicator though a +ve at 25 cycles still does not make you a covid “case”. A medical case is someone who is ill : ie displaying clinical symptoms, not someone who does not even realise they are “ill”.

You can challenge someone’s statements without that being an “attack”.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Greg
February 15, 2021 12:28 am

I wasn’t attacking anyone. Cases, in the UK and Aus, are people who test positive in a PCR test. None of these people are ill or in hospital. Its just a numbers game. My comments stand and even the inventor of the PCR test stated years ago that the test does not show someone is sick or even infections.

Juan Slayton
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 10, 2021 7:44 pm

I went to the Los Angeles fairgrounds on Saturday afternoon a couple of weeks ago. They had a huge parking lot laid out to accomodate hundreds of cars, but there was hardly anyone there. I think there were two cars ahead of me in my lane. I can’t figure out what’s going on here; with appointments easily made on line, I expected the place would be packed. I got the Pfizer vaccine; 2nd dose is scheduled for this Saturday. We recently received an e-mail that only second doses will be given out; I think everyone else will have to wait for resupply. (Let’s hear it for geezer power!)

Reply to  Ric Werme
February 10, 2021 8:54 pm

first jab tomorrow

Greg
Reply to  Leo Smith
February 13, 2021 12:06 pm

In the UK, I’ve been told they do not even tell you what “vaccine” you are being administered.

I truly hope your are not among the small %age of people for whom this goes badly wrong.

https://www.rt.com/usa/515157-covid-vaccine-side-effects-blood/

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 10, 2021 9:10 pm

I get my second dose of the Moderna vaccine in about 10 days.

The first dose caused a little tenderness at the injection site for a couple of days, but was the only side effect I experienced.

Doug Huffman
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 11, 2021 4:31 am

We are Octogenarian and Septuagenarian, Class-1b & 1c respectively. No vaccine appointments yet available in our county, and not in my best friend’s county either. Gotta keep the fearful fearful

I cannot get my PCP to order testing, not DNA, not Ag and not Ab. Gotta keep the fearful fearful.

I do not MASQUE. The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense. Virtue signaling.

Oldseadog
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 11, 2021 6:01 am

Here in Scotland I got Phizered on 20th. Jan. and have an appointment for the second one on 14th. April.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 11, 2021 10:01 am

Still waiting for my turn.
Getting regular emails from several organizations.
I think it is possible for anyone who is diligent to get vaccinated if they go wait outside a clinic doing vaccinations, because they always have left overs at the end of the day, which will go to waste if they do not put it in someone’s arm.
Which one did you get, Ric?
I am hoping for the Moderna one, personally.

TonyG
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 11, 2021 10:34 am

Depends on the location – there are some governments that are prohibiting clinics from giving out vaccinations to “non-approved” people.

chemman
Reply to  TonyG
February 11, 2021 2:50 pm

A doctor just got fired in Houston TX over not wasting doses.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  TonyG
February 16, 2021 1:44 pm

Which is literally insane, IMO.
We are talking about lives here.
Every dose wasted means a person still at risk that did not have to be, and a person that can still get and spread the virus rather than someone who is a roadblock to the spread of the infection.

chemman
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 11, 2021 2:38 pm

Figure closer to 14 days because of lag time for the mRNA to get into the cells and the spike protein to be made and expressed on the cell membrane.

Patrick MJD
February 10, 2021 7:08 pm

People are being awarded for their work on vaccines for SARS-COV-2? Good heavens! May be the should go find out how the PCR test works first.

John Tillman
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 10, 2021 7:33 pm

The problem with RT-PCR tests is the cycle threshold (CT). In order to boost the number of COVID “cases”, the CT was set at many, many cycles, which picked up totally spurious positives, or traces of long ago coronavirus cold virus exposures. After Biden got in, the CT was lowered to more reasonable levels. Hence, immediately fewer “cases”.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  John Tillman
February 10, 2021 7:41 pm

Yep! Ct is typically 25 but can be up to 40. Forget the fact the test uses about 1% of the SARS-COV-2 RNA and not forgetting its DNA hasn’t been verified or purified for testing in the wider community.

Mullis even stated years ago the test should not be used to test for disease or infectious risk.

John Tillman
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 10, 2021 7:54 pm

Coronavirus genomes are positive sense, single stranded RNA, hence no DNA. But good questions nonetheless.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  John Tillman
February 10, 2021 8:51 pm

The RNA sequences, AFAIK, are in DNA format.

Ben Wouters
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 11, 2021 1:33 am

The RT-PCR test first creates DNA out of the RNA (Reverse Transcription), then splits the DNA in 2 strings, which are then multiplied into 2 new DNA strings, which are split again etc. etc.
A.F.A.I.K 😉

John Tillman
Reply to  Ben Wouters
February 11, 2021 6:58 am

You’re both right. I see what Patrick meant now, ie reverse translation for the cycling. Sorry.

MARTIN BRUMBY
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 10, 2021 8:15 pm

Patrick MJD
Up to 40?
Here in the UK apparently up to 45!
Beat that!
Ve haff vays of making ze rezult pozitiff!

Patrick MJD
Reply to  MARTIN BRUMBY
February 10, 2021 8:44 pm

45?! No wonder there are so many positives with the number of “copy” cycles. The number of errors must be huge, and makes an already useless test more so.

robin townsend
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 11, 2021 1:48 am

I have personally contaced at least three labs in the uk since work pays a lot of money for private tests, they all confirm qt=45 which by my maths is one trillion doublings.

Fred Hayek
Reply to  robin townsend
February 11, 2021 7:19 am

Isn’t it 45 doublings?

chemman
Reply to  Fred Hayek
February 11, 2021 2:57 pm

35,200,000,000,000 copies for 45 doublings if you started with only 1 copy of RNA.

chemman
Reply to  robin townsend
February 11, 2021 2:58 pm

35 trillion copies if you started with one copy of RNA

PaulH
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 11, 2021 5:52 am

Even the SAGE (Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies) group in the UK acknowledges problems with too-high cycle threshold for PCR tests. See paragraphs 39-41 in their December 2020 minutes:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/952613/s0989-covid-19-sage-73-minutes-171220.pdf

However, it would be in line with expert opinion which suggests a Ct value of below 25 seems to be associated with viable transmission.

They seem to prefer Lateral Flow Testing:

This also supports the hypothesis that lateral flow testing (which is more likely to identify cases which have a low PCR testCt value)is better at identifying more infectious individuals than it is at identifying infected but less infectious people.

Reply to  Ric Werme
February 10, 2021 11:07 pm

“…how did Pfizer come up with this tremendously clean graph…”
There are a great many programs available that can make any graph you please. I can make you “perfectly clean graphs” of the smell of my farts plotted against the cost of Uranium.
I followed your link, here I offer you a totally different reality, also expressed in graphs, showing lots of evidence that vaccines arrived AFTER hygiene and clean housing solved the bulk of infectious deaths, like measles and pertussis.
http://vaxinfostarthere.com/did-vaccines-save-us/

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 11, 2021 12:49 am

They are in the market to sell their product.

Kevin kilty
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 11, 2021 8:08 am

I don’t think people are saying it is crap, but it produces misleading results if the cycle count is too high. Moreover, the people doing this at centralized labs do not generally report the number of cycles with their results. I know, the State I live in purchase a couple hundred thousand PCR at home tests and gave them out indiscriminately. I tried to find out from any health authority and from Vault Health themselves how many cycles they used. I got no answer from Vault, and the only answers I got from the health authorities was “we don’t know”. In fact one actually said “I am sure no one knows”.

Both Vault and the State health department have a simplied table about how to interpret test results which is absolutely incorrect, and contradicts information found at FDA and CDC as well as more reliable places.

First rate mess. Can’t decipher what actually happened. People decided on a course of action in complete ignorance about what they were doing. Government work.

richard
Reply to  Kevin kilty
February 13, 2021 4:45 pm

A new study from the Infectious Diseases Society of America, found that at 25 cycles of amplification, 70% of PCR test “positives” are not “cases” since the virus cannot be cultured, it’s dead. And by 35: 97% of the positives are non-clinical.

chemman
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 11, 2021 3:03 pm

Per my immunology prof full immune system response occurs normally around 11 days after the first introduction of the antigen. Second and subsequent introductions of the antigen ramp up to a full response well under 11 days. Hence the 2nd shot to maximize immune response.

As I said above I suspect their will be a lag time because the antigen isn’t being directly introduced. The mRNA vaccine is relying on the body to produce that antigen and then express it on the cell membrane.That will take some amount of time.

Bill Parsons
Reply to  John Tillman
February 11, 2021 8:13 pm

There are fewer cases. Overall daily U.S. hospital admissions for Covid peaked Jan. 4 at 18 / 100,000 admissions / general population. By the week ending Jan 23 (3 days after Biden took office) there were only 12.3 admissions per 100,000. He can’t take credit for the 30% drop in admissions prior to his inhabiting the White House; nor can Dems congratulate themselves for the ongoing decline to 7.6 reached week of Jan 30. That’s a 56% drop in hospitalizations since Jan 4.

The bull market DOW seems to reflect a lot of people who think that we’ve seen the worst. It has gained another 250 points since Biden’s inauguration. Maybe he will claim credit for printing new money.

U.S is struggling to re-open, hampered by unions and ham-handed politicians. But since we’ve only vaccinated a little over 10% of our population, one can only conclude that a herd immunity response to the virus’ previous two surges is the cause of the plummeting hospitalizations.

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_3.html

TonyG
Reply to  Bill Parsons
February 12, 2021 8:03 am

How much of that decline can be accounted for by the change in WHO definition of a “case” to require two positive tests?

Bill Parsons
Reply to  TonyG
February 12, 2021 11:55 am

Which Western health authorities actually heed WHO injunctions?

I refer to hospital admissions as a more reliable record of the epidemic because 1) you have to actually be sick to be admitted (and) 2) hospitals have multiple incentives to identify Covid if it is there (financial and containment). Hospitals have always performed multiple tests – to confirm the disease at admission, and likely again at discharge.

My point is that virus cases are dropping and immunizations did not turn the tide.

Hospitalizations provide the most consistent gauge of the numbers of people with the virus. That data shows the virus began its retreat among all age groups during the week ending Jan. 4. By that week, U.S. had delivered only 1.4 million first-of-two vaccinations (so, long before a full immune response could develop). Yet within one month, hospital admissions have dropped by more than half. That’s huge.

Vaccines have had little to do with the American recovery.

David A
Reply to  Bill Parsons
February 13, 2021 12:28 am

What percentage has had both shots?

ResourceGuy
February 10, 2021 7:09 pm

Penn State strikes again. They should get another kind of award for their grant money lust.

ResourceGuy
February 10, 2021 7:11 pm

UPenn or Penn State?

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 10, 2021 9:35 pm

The article says Penn State, then U Penn. Confusion is rampant.

Scissor
February 10, 2021 7:21 pm

Standard definitions of medical terms are being changed. For example, a positive PCR test produces a “case,” a death with COVID becomes a death by COVID despite contributions from comorbidities or another actual cause of death, for instance motorcycle accident or gunshot wound.

And now, these mRNA immuno-therapies are called “vaccines.” Anyone else concerned that these terms are not being used correctly, that their meanings are being misrepresented?

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Scissor
February 10, 2021 7:43 pm

All being changed for political reasons.

Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 10, 2021 9:02 pm

I don’t think political propaganda can produce 100,000 excess deaths that easily.
That is the only reliable guide.

Reply to  Leo Smith
February 10, 2021 11:08 pm

First, prove those “excess deaths”. Even the CDC graphs show no such thing.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Leo Smith
February 11, 2021 12:13 am

It seems any death is attributed to COVID without any supporting evidence. The UK yesterday reported 1000 deaths to COVID, but who really knows.

Robert Hope
Reply to  Leo Smith
February 11, 2021 4:58 am

First order ‘thinking’ much?
Lol….

TRM
Reply to  Leo Smith
February 11, 2021 5:39 pm

Total/Excess deaths are the hardest number for them to mess with apparently so it is a good start. Others, like Yoram Lass, have said the same.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

That is the page for the graph (scroll down about 8 pages) for total deaths. Yes we are above average but similar to the Asian flu of the late 50’s or the Hong Kong flu of the late 60’s.

Also keep in mind that “total deaths” are counted in a calendar year (Jan 01 to Dec 31) but the flu season runs from week 40 (early Oct) to week 39 the following year (late Sep).

We have had 2 “flu” seasons in one calendar year so that will affect the total but it happens and it’s not rare.

Derge
Reply to  TRM
February 14, 2021 8:21 pm

Suicide deaths exceed non-commerical vehicular deaths every year. I’m pretty sure during this Plannedemic asymmetrical economic warfare, there’s been a massive spike in both homicides and suicides. A city I grew up in doubled their murder rate in 2020.

Scissor
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 10, 2021 8:40 pm

Traditionally, vaccines were comprised of live, attenuated or inactive pathogens.

I agree that an immune response is generated by the mRNA “vaccines” I would question the “foreign protein” part in that first, they are generated by native cells and second some say that there may be similar sequences in native human proteins.

StevenF
Reply to  Scissor
February 10, 2021 9:19 pm

A few points about what you say. A very strict interpretation of the term vaccine involves a virus, but you will find many medical dictionaries that have updated the term to account for improvements in technology. Those newer terms (that predate COVID) say that any compound that provokes an immune response in order to generate immunity is a vaccine. I tend to go with the newer terminology because the older terminology applied when all we had were virus based vaccines. Technology has changed, terminology should change with it.

By definition, much of the immune response to a virus is based on proteins that are produced by native cells. This is because a virus hijacks the cell’s protein machinery to create new viruses that are then expelled out of the cell and are recognized as foreign by the immune system. There really isn’t any fundamental difference with an mRNA vaccine in that the protein is made by the body’s cells.

Finally, some will say all sorts of stuff. There maybe similar sequences in the antigenic protein but there has to be enough sequences that do not resemble human sequences, otherwise no immune response would occur. In other words, the immune system would not recognize the protein as foreign. Which we know this vaccine does generate an immune response. So that statement is really not terribly relevant.

Thanks

Reply to  StevenF
February 10, 2021 10:24 pm

the immune system would not recognize the protein as foreign

Oh, if it were only so – the millions of us that suffer from autoimmune diseases would have a much easier life.

Which is why, absent threat of more immediate physical mayhem, I will avoid the “vaccine.” I have enough trouble with my immune system targeting perfectly healthy cells for producing my own proteins without giving it a reason to target perfectly healthy cells for producing a viral protein.

J R
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 11, 2021 10:36 am

I suggest you watch this interview with Dr. Simone Gold. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BraR-HQO6Qs She explains Antibody Dependent Enhancement, and how this experimental vaccine, among others attempted over last 15 years, have always resulted in this occurring in patients and recipients of the vaccine. She and many vaccine scientists believe that these therapies have been rushed and are truly experimental. She states it is malpractice, for example, to give these shots to any woman of childbearing age as there is mounting evidence that this treatment will make them infertile – ie unable to bear a child to term. There is NO evidence that this experimental therapy has avoided the ADE problem of prior mRNA vaccines, and plenty of mounting evidence and over 500 deaths in US alone that indicate it is likely at work here again. Please consider, and as someone who has enjoyed your posts over the years, I would urge you to not get the second vaccine dose.

Doug Werme
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 11, 2021 12:09 pm

You left out your brother’s autoimmune reaction (rheumatic fever.) Good of you to get the shot before other family members though. Let me know if you die from it.

Lonald
Reply to  StevenF
February 11, 2021 6:40 am

A pedantic point. Diphtheria, Pertussis and Tetanus are all bacterial pathogens, and the DPT vaccine against them has been around for many decades now. Pneumococcus is another bacteria with a commonly used vaccination. There’s others.

Vaccines are not just against viruses.

John Tillman
Reply to  StevenF
February 11, 2021 7:07 am

Vaccines also exist against bacteria. The shot against the cholera bacterium was developed the year before Pasteur and Roux’s rabies vaccine.

Technically, immunization with a “live” pathogen is inoculation or variolation, while a vaccine uses a “k!lled” agent, parts of it or another virus or bacterium. Inoculation can also refer both to variolation or vaccination, ie immunization.

If for no other reason, the mRNA injections are indeed vaccines, since they use an adenovirus as vector. Unlike DNA cowpox and smallpox, DNA adenoviruses are unrelated to RNA coronaviruses, but useful to deliver agents to cells.

Last edited 5 months ago by John Tillman
Patrick MJD
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 10, 2021 8:55 pm

I think T cell memory is having an impact on the numbers that, although test “positive”, remain healthy showing no symptoms as in 99.9% of positives.

jim hogg
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 11, 2021 12:41 pm

Are you saying that only 0.1% of those who test positive have symptoms?? one per thousand in other words? Forgetting the official death tally in the UK, which is already above (your) 0.1% of the whole population, at the peak of the most recent wave there were almost 40k C19 cases in hospital in the UK – simultaneously (and almost 4k in ICU/on ventilators). By your figure, 40 million positive cases/tests would have been needed to cause 40k with symptoms, never mind 40k hospitalised cases. I think you need to recalculate drastically. And of course a small proportion of those who become ill either endure it at home, or die of it or with it at home (which always provokes the question – would they have died without it at that time?). You must have meant something else entirely because your 0.1% claim is clearly absurd.

Further up the page you say this: “Pr. Ferguson of Imperial College London which all proved to be WILDLY overstated.” in relation to the number of deaths he predicted. The report from Imperial’s team (including N Ferguson) predicted if NO action was taken then the number of deaths could exceed 500k depending on R number etc. That should be clear enough without elaboration. The linked paper sets out the modelling details. Once NPIs had been put in place he then made a prediction based on those interventions, which was actually too optimistic. What he said was that “the British response, Ferguson said on 25 March, makes him “reasonably confident” that total deaths in the United Kingdom will be held below 20,000. ” Your claim about Ferguson is actually “wildly” out in the wrong direction. But basically you didn’t check the context. In addition, his no action scenario estimates related to a 2 year period. We are less than one year into it and the UK tally is in danger of hitting 200,000 by March 2022 if the vaccines prove to be less effective than claimed, for various reasons, and the virus doesn’t lose its potency via mutations, despite extensive NPIs.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/mrc-gida/2020-03-16-COVID19-Report-9.pdf

And one (there are many sources) for his post NPIs estimate:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01003-6

And above that comment you say “all being changed for political reasons” in relation to an implied misuse of the word “vaccine”. The term “vaccine” still applies accurately to the product being so identified. It’s meant to do what vaccines normally do, though the method is new, and the trials appear to confirm that they work (with varying degrees of efficiency) as they should. Governments (being composed of humans) do from time to time resort to various “shenanigans” as we all know, but not on this occasion it would seem. .

Just one more: “It seems any death is attributed to COVID without any supporting evidence. The UK yesterday reported 1000 deaths to COVID, but who really knows.”

“Any death”? How likely is that in the real world? Any!! See below.

“Without any supporting evidence”? Again, how likely is that? Doctors are obliged to take great care when deciding what should go on every death certificate. Evidence is crucially important to the process, and I suspect there will have been many cases of C19 at home or in Care Homes where there has been positive test and no symptoms reported prior to death, and in such cases the doctor will have been obliged to certify death consistent with the known evidence: the medical history of the patient. Check ONS re strange increase in deaths as a result of dementia/pneumonia in Care Homes in the UK during the first wave. I don’t have the link to hand but I read the pages myself. Disregard if you don’t trust me. But check yourself if you’re really interested in accuracy and improving your grasp of the the extent of C19’s impact beyond the govt’s daily statistical output.

“Who really knows”? A certain amount of trust is required before society can function and that means a threshold level of accuracy in all areas, where that is feasible, must be achieved. Qualified, professional people are at work all along the chain from the point of reporting symptoms through to the determining of cause of death and the great majority of them are competent and honest. Some scrupulously so. Accuracy matters. Nay, it’s crucial. There will be some cases where there is doubt of course. And, it is also probably the case, I’d argue, that governments are capable of applying pressures – subtly – that will result in them being seen in the best possible light. If such pressure has been applied down through the chain of command then the figures are likely to be an underestimate rather than the opposite. “Who really knows” might be reasonably applied to the question of how much the official death figure will likely be exceeded by the actual toll.

Getting back to “trust”: false, distorted or decontextualised information endangers trust and may even be responsible for loss of life. Accuracy is important and should be regarded by everyone as their irreducible primary, although it is admittedly a very challenging task-master, esp given that there is, comparatively, so little that is actually known and yet so much that’s believed unjustifiably, with some having lost the ability to differentiate between the two. . Speculation is fine but is should be reasonable.

Ric W. Thanks for the original post.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  jim hogg
February 11, 2021 10:56 pm

The PCR “test” is bogus so too are the deaths in the UK attributed to COVID. Nice long post, but missed the point by a wide margin.

Derge
Reply to  jim hogg
February 14, 2021 8:26 pm

This “disease” is so dangerous all the homeless people were wiped out. Oh wait, never happened. They seem to be naturally immune, eh?

yirgach
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 12, 2021 5:46 am

Here’s another take on the use of mRNA:

The problem is that in the case of Moderna and Pfizer, this is not a vaccine. This is gene therapy. It’s a chemotherapy agent that is gene therapy. It is not a vaccine. What is this doing? It’s sending a strand of synthetic RNA into the human being and is invoking within the human being, the creation of the S1 spike protein, which is a pathogen. It’s a toxin inside of human beings. This is not only not keeping you from getting sick, it’s making your body produce the thing that makes you sick.

This is a public manipulation of misrepresentation of clinical treatment. It’s not a vaccination. It’s not a prohibiting infection. It’s not a prohibiting transmission device. It’s a means by which your body is conscripted to make the toxin that then allegedly your body somehow gets used to dealing with, but unlike a vaccine, which is to trigger the immune response, this is to trigger the creation of the toxin.

COVID 19 is not a disease. It is a series of clinical symptoms. It is a giant umbrella of things associated with what used to be associated with influenza and with other febrile diseases. The problem that we have is that in February 2020, the World Health Organization was clear in stating that there should not be a conflation between the two of these things. One is a virus, in their definition and one is a set of clinical symptoms.

Huell Bernenhell
Reply to  Scissor
February 10, 2021 8:09 pm

It’s been a common practice throughout history by members of a certain ethno-religious group , often noted as having a higher than average “verbal intelligence”, to change definitions of words. Often leading to a subversion of the populations of the nations where they reside. In this case they even changed the definition of “pandemic” then through ethnocentric nepotism award their own these pseudo-scientific accolades as some sort of achievement to be used through credential-ism to impose their unquestionable authority on the matter.

Reply to  Huell Bernenhell
February 10, 2021 11:20 pm

You remind me brother:
Protocol5v8. “In all ages the people of the world, equally with individuals, have accepted words for deeds, for THEY ARE CONTENT WITH A SHOW and rarely pause to note, in the public arena, whether promises are followed by performance. Therefore we shall establish show institutions which will give eloquent proof of their benefit to progress.”
Also, I countered the idiot that downvoted you. Maybe he got lost in your punctuation?

Doug Huffman
Reply to  Scissor
February 11, 2021 6:58 am

It is so gay!

“I don’t know what you mean by ‘glory,’ ” Alice said. 
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. “Of course you don’t—till I tell you. I meant ‘there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!'”
“But ‘glory’ doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument’,” Alice objected.
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”

lbeyeler
Reply to  Scissor
February 11, 2021 11:46 am

Using the word “case” instead of “positive test” makes the whole thing much more dramatic. I don’t know if this happened intentionally or just because of inertia.

I think attributing “death by COVID” is problematic. How many doctors signed the death certificate? Can you go and verify their processes, redo their lab tests?

TRM
Reply to  Scissor
February 11, 2021 5:31 pm

Along with the changes to the definition of pandemic in 2008 that removed the requirement for an IFR > 1.0 and since then anything fast spreading can be called a pandemic. This “pandemic” is at IFR = 0.3 so it would not have been one by a long shot prior to 2008.

Then after 17 years (2003-2020) of using a standard definition of infectious disease death they changed that. RFK Jr’s group looked at the data using the old definition and 90% of the Covid-19 deaths would NOT have counted in prior years.

Rhs
Reply to  Scissor
February 11, 2021 6:48 pm

Nah, we’re just sheeple, what do we accurate terms for? We just drink the kool-aid.

John Tillman
February 10, 2021 7:22 pm

I’ve been dubious about mRNA vaccines, but if further broad use should support their safety and efficacy, then I second Dawkins and Moderna co-founder Rossi’s nomination of Karikó and Weissman for a Nobel Prize. Time will tell.

Scissor
Reply to  John Tillman
February 10, 2021 7:44 pm

Yes, time will tell.

I’ve seen figures for the U.S. of over 15,000 adverse reactions and over 500 deaths, but with over 27 million jabs maybe that’s not alarming. It’s just sad to see young people suffer or die needlessly. It seems that the old and frail are the ones that really need protection and they aren’t doing so well with it.

John Tillman
Reply to  Scissor
February 10, 2021 8:02 pm

My wife, a nurse treating COVID patients in Chile, didn’t get the PFE shot because a colleague suffered an adverse reaction, including high fever.

The general population here, including me, is stuck with China’s Sinovac, an old-fashioned inactivated virus vaccine, which achieved an underwhelming 50.4% effectiveness rating in Brazilian trials, barely qualifying. But at least it’s cheap.

Sinovac does have the advantage of being able quickly to respond to mutation of new strains, like flu shots, which of course don’t always get the annual strain right.

I’ve been a fan of adenovirus vector vaccines, like AstroZeneca’s Oxford and Johnson & Johnson’s shot, plus even Russia’s Sputnik V, though hurried into approval by cutting trial corners.

Scissor
Reply to  John Tillman
February 10, 2021 8:41 pm

Good luck to us all.

StevenF
Reply to  Scissor
February 10, 2021 9:24 pm

Interesting comment. I am actually in the field as a public health physician responsible for a large part of the US. I can’t speak to all 60 million + vaccinations in the US but I have seen the data and am very knowledgeable about the 300,000 or so that I am directly associated with. I know of no deaths. That’s not to say that there hasn’t been one or two. But they haven’t been reported or made the rounds in the medical community. Now maybe their are being hidden, but 500 couldn’t be hidden.

I would say that your figure is inaccurate. If you have something that supports it, I would like to see it. Take care.

Alex
Reply to  StevenF
February 10, 2021 11:02 pm

This is the official vaers report on 29.01.2021.
501 deaths hours after the jab.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  StevenF
February 10, 2021 11:08 pm

I’d be curious about your take on HCQ/Zinc and Ivermectin as Covid treatments.

Charles Nelson
Reply to  StevenF
February 10, 2021 11:22 pm

You’re a Public Health Physician who spells ‘they’re’ – ‘their’?!
God help us all.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Charles Nelson
February 11, 2021 12:59 am

Maybe English is not his first language. I know many health workers here in Australia who’s first, second and even third language isn’t English. As an example, my ex-wife’s first language, who is a Registered Nurse, was Zulu.

Last edited 5 months ago by Patrick MJD
Reply to  Charles Nelson
February 11, 2021 1:29 am

So, doctors are intellectually superior to “normal” people, then? Surprised one of your anointed ones makes spelling mistakes? A bit fallen from your grace now?
May your god have mercy…

rbabcock
Reply to  Charles Nelson
February 11, 2021 9:59 am

Have you ever heard of autocorrect? That has gotten me many times and I can spell quite well thank you. (BTW autocorrect for the “well” in the sentence before this wanted to turn it to we’ll)

Scissor
Reply to  StevenF
February 11, 2021 5:17 am

Alex answered your question. Those figures were reported from the CDC VAERS data base from late January.

Scissor
Reply to  StevenF
February 11, 2021 5:31 am

Here’s an article that argues your position. I would just point out that if the same logic were used for recording COVID deaths, those numbers would be lowered by an order of magnitude or more.

https://fullfact.org/online/vaers-covid-vaccine-deaths/

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  StevenF
February 11, 2021 10:25 am

Every day roughly one in 36,000 people die. Roughly.
7400 or so in the US per day before this all started, averaged out over one year.
If a vaccine has no effect whatsoever on living or dying, we should therefore expect about 30 deaths within a day of vaccination, for every one million vaccinated.
(Let’s also keep in mind that no vaccine can work to provide immunity any faster than our immune system can generate an acquired immune response…which is at least a week or so and more like 10-11 days for most to have sufficient response to be protective. In that interval a vaccinated person could easily die of COVID)
Since mostly old people die from COVID, and mostly old people are getting the vaccine in the US, we should expect the number of random coincidental deaths to be even higher.
Obviously getting a vaccination s not going to guarantee no one dies.
And many of the individuals getting vaccinated are high risk people, people who are sick of one thing or another, etc.
It is ridiculous to be surprised, or even necessarily suspicious, that people who have just been vaccinated die, when millions are getting vaccinated, and most are old and not well to begin with.
Of course people who have been vaccinated die.
What on Earth leads anyone to think a vaccinated person is immune to death?

Last edited 5 months ago by Nicholas McGinley
David A
Reply to  Scissor
February 13, 2021 12:45 am

Scissor, yet please consider that only about 5 million have had both shots, and the vast majority of the negative reactions are from the 2nd shot.

Also it will take at least a year, perhaps longer to know if pathogenic priming has been truly avoided.

With a healthy immune system, adequet sunshine, and very effective treatments like HCQ, Ivertmican etc… available, I see little reason to risk the vaccine until more is known.

Mike Dubrasich
February 10, 2021 7:43 pm

Persistence is an apt descriptor. How long does synthetic (exotic) mRNA persist within cells? Does it produce a few strands of spike protein fragments (which then trigger T-cells) and disappear, or does it persist for months or years? What’s the half-life?

Also, does synthetic (exotic) mRNA pass through the blood placental barrier and enter fetal cells? Does that affect fetal development? How long does synthetic (exotic) mRNA persist in fetal tissues?

Also, does synthetic (exotic) mRNA enter oocytes (egg cells)? Does it persist there? And thereby get transmitted to (is inherited by) babies conceived after the mother has been vaccinated?

Have there been clinical double-blind longitudinal studies (with placebos) to investigate the long-term (persistence) effects on racial, ethnic, or gender minorities and members of underserved communities, which are known to be victims of past systemic injustices?

Other chemo-therapies for corona viruses, such as HCQ, have been taken by hundreds of millions (perhaps billions) of people for over 50 years. Yet those therapies have been banned under the premise that safety studies have been inadequate. Can proponents of mRNA therapy cite equivalent or more extensive safety studies for their medicine?

Last edited 5 months ago by Mike Dubrasich
John Tillman
Reply to  Mike Dubrasich
February 10, 2021 8:05 pm

To include apparently effective treatments and preventatives like de-wormer Ivermectin, corticosteroid dexamethasone, asthma inhalers and chlorine-based mouthwash and nasal spray. The latter are too close to Trump’s suggestion to inject bleach ever to be touted by the MSM, no matter how many lives might be saved by their use.

Last edited 5 months ago by John Tillman
Don Perry
Reply to  John Tillman
February 11, 2021 7:19 am

To say “Trump’s suggestion to inject bleach” is the grossest of distortions.

Don132
Reply to  John Tillman
February 11, 2021 7:55 am

Sorry, but I have to comment on this “drink bleach” nonsense. I watched the news conference during which Trump allegedly said to drink bleach and swallow UV, etc. Funny thing is, who accompanied Trump to that conference? None other than Dr. Birx. And each time Trump said something– among which, BTW, wasn’t “drink bleach”– who did he turn to, who was seated to his right? To ask if he got it right? None other than Dr. Birx. What Trump was doing was simply explaining potential treatments that he’d been briefed on, probably by Dr. Birx, and of course the media twisted this into a huge “he said to drink bleach” narrative. It’s just plain wrong, it’s stupid, I saw it and heard it with my own eyes and ears. Conveniently, later clips I saw didn’t show the beginning when Dr. Birx entered and took a seat to Trump’s right. Can’t spoil the narrative now, can we?

John Tillman
Reply to  Don132
February 11, 2021 8:37 am

Of course the media spun and edited the press conference out of context, but he did suggest trying to inject disinfectant. Dr. Birx looks uncomfortable at his summary of their conversaztion about treatments.

The fact is that IV drug users often inject bleach from disinfected syringes into their bloood systems, and most people drink chlorinated water. So the suggestion wasn’t as absurd as it sounds.

John Tillman
Reply to  Don132
February 11, 2021 8:58 am

As noted, he said “inject” not “drink”.

Reply to  John Tillman
February 18, 2021 5:59 pm

Regarding that COVID-19 daily morning briefing mentioned above: Prior to President Trump’s comments that morning, the military director of the BioWarfare Medical Lab at Fort Detrick, Maryland, mentioned the lab had isolated the subject virus and looked at ways to kill it; he said that UV radiation killed it in 90 seconds. As the director left the podium, Trump looked to his right and said it would be great if we could find some way inject it, meaning the UV light, to bleach it, meaning to kill the virus in the lungs of affected patients. “Bleach” to the president and to people of my age (75) has two meanings: Whiten, as in bleaching clothes hung outside in the sun to dry and Disinfect as in killing “germs”.

Scissor
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 10, 2021 8:49 pm

There is going to be an age cut off where the “vaccine” does more harm than the actual CV19. Almost certainly, children are better off relying on their own immune systems.

mcswell
Reply to  Scissor
February 11, 2021 10:33 am

Really? How would you know that children shouldn’t be vaccinated for CV19? You’ve done studies?

Scissor
Reply to  mcswell
February 11, 2021 12:16 pm

I don’t “know.” My statement was an opinion, an educated guess, but I think based on sound reasoning.

The severity and death for children from CV19 is minuscule, almost insignificantly different from zero. For instance in the U.S., deaths of those under the age of 15 years comprise about 0.0005% of all deaths of CV19 cases. This is borne out in all the statistics.

Now, what is gained from giving children a new, still being studied “vaccine” when they hardly suffer from the disease?

We know that people are suffering adverse effects from vaccination and we can’t possibly know what the long term effects from the “vaccine” will be.

The risk of adverse reactions and unknown long term effects must be considered. Now, eventually these things will become known.

Children will hardly derive any benefit from a “vaccine” but will encounter risk. For older folks, the benefit is increased because the severity of CV19 infection is greater for those folks. Now it might turn out that the old and frail suffer from adverse reactions at a greater rate also. Again, we’ll see. The following link graphs excess deaths as a function of age (click on weekly number of deaths by age and update the dashboard).

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Last edited 5 months ago by Scissor
TRM
Reply to  mcswell
February 12, 2021 8:48 am

Look at the IFR for the various age groups. You are wrong.

Mike Dubrasich
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 10, 2021 9:04 pm

Mr. Werme,

Good answers. I may be skeptical, but I’m not unreasonable. I’m not getting pregnant any time soon, so my doubts are not personal. The lockdown has been debilitating. If the magic bullet ends the lockdown, I’ll chance it.

navnek
Reply to  Mike Dubrasich
February 11, 2021 1:17 am

The magic bullets are ivermectin and/or HCQ in combination with vitamins and other supplements. MUCH safer than vaccines, and probably at least as reliable.

TRM
Reply to  navnek
February 12, 2021 8:52 am

And Ivermectin has 14+ RCT studies with publicly published data showing spectacular effects as both a cure and prophylactic.

The vaccine raw data has still not been published from the phase 2 trials which completed last fall. Now the manufactures are saying they will release the phase 2 data NEXT YEAR (2022) when they complete the whole study.

But get your vaccine NOW or we will coerce/force you to!!

navnek
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 11, 2021 1:15 am

Actually, CDC and other agencies were buying up the supply, maybe so that it would NOT be used by patients.

StevenF
Reply to  Mike Dubrasich
February 10, 2021 9:35 pm

The answer below by Ric Werme is pretty accurate. The mRNA is taken up by the cells, it starts producing protein. It stops relatively quickly and degrades into component molecules and base material. I don’t know if it is two weeks or shorter but I do know that it isn’t long.

I also know that the mRNA does go far. It is taken up quickly by the muscle cells where it is injected. It travels by diffusion, which means it won’t diffuse far before it gets taken into a cell.

Finally, the question of synthetic is an interesting one. mRNA is made up of ribonucleic acids. If the sequence is made up of the same molecules and atoms does it really matter that they are created in a lab versus your cells. If they are the same molecule they really aren’t synthetic. In the case of these vaccines, it isn’t that simple. They had to create a psuedouracil that mimics uracil but isn’t allergenic. So it is a little bit synthetic. Take care.

navnek
Reply to  Mike Dubrasich
February 10, 2021 9:41 pm

EXCELLENT POINTS. BTW, Dr. Pierre Kory, a pulmonologist, researcher and former UW Madison prof. of medicine says Ivermectin has the clinical trials to prove its effectiveness, and NO ONE need die, yet its efficacy is being ignored by Dr. FRAUDCI, NIH, CDC and the medical community at large. WHY???

Don132
Reply to  navnek
February 11, 2021 7:58 am

$64,000 question. Kory is part of a team of physicians paving the way in Covid-19 treatment. How many people have died because Fauci and the NIH have opposed safe drugs that could have been used to prevent serious Covid-19?https://covid19criticalcare.com/

TRM
Reply to  navnek
February 12, 2021 8:58 am

Moderna (Gates & Fauci, etc) have a BLATANT conflict of interest but it couldn’t be money. No they are above that after all they are doctors and scientists who would never let that happen. /s

“It’s completely correct to say that NIAID will reap a profit on the Moderna/NIAID vaccine. There are 6 NIAID scientists who work for Dr. Fauci, each of whom would get $150,000/year indefinitely as their reward. So that’s $900,000 to his subordinates every year in perpetuity.”

– Mary Holland, General Counsel, RFK Jr’s “Children’s Health Defense”

William Astley
Reply to  Mike Dubrasich
February 11, 2021 9:51 am

I agree with your comment.

All of the vaccines cause complex problems in the human body.

The nRNA vaccines have been connected with sight loss in a small number of people in the UK.

Ivermectin is (according to a group of doctors/researchers who formed a group to find the best/cheapest treatment for covid looking at the set of drugs that have been used for decades and are known to be safe) a safer and more effect treatment than HCQ.

This is an interesting article.
 
India has defeated/is defeating covid using invermectin.
 
 
 
https://trialsitenews.com/an-unlikely-nation-is-kicking-this-pandemic-guess-which-then-why/
 
 
This was no small move. Were it a country, U.P.’s more than 230 million citizens would rank it fifth worldwide. As India’s largest state, its embrace of ivermectin may have changed the treatment landscape across India. 

“This authentication of ivermectin revived the faith of people,” Dr. Chaurasia told me, “and net result was a massive inclination to take these drugs” — both ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine.

By the end of 2020, Uttar Pradesh — which distributed free ivermectin for home care — had the second-lowest fatality rate in India at 0.26 per 100,000 residents in December. 

Only the state of Bihar, with 128 million residents, was lower, and it, too, recommends ivermectin

But Uttar Pradesh did more than treat 300,000 mild cases at home through 2020; it also opted to use ivermectin to prevent infection. It seems a young health officer’s COVID response teams had taken the drug and remained well –

something prophylaxis studies support. U.P. then had contacts of COVID patients take it, with similar success. “Recognizing the sense of urgency,” Amit Mohan Prasad, a U.P. health official, wrote in a Dec. 30 article, “we decided to go ahead.”

Such urgency is in short supply in the U.S., where the single-minded focus is on vaccination. Nonetheless, a group of doctors called Frontline COVID Critical Care Alliance is pressing for adoption of ivermectin immediately as an adjunct and bridge to vaccination.

Its logic is twofold: Ivermectin has a known safety profile, as a life-saving drug given to millions since the 1980s, and 46 COVID studies, including 18 peer-reviewed, have shown “high efficacy.” 

However, even India is holding back, perhaps temporarily. The Indian Council of Medical Research declined in October to recommend ivermectin nationwide, citing, as other such entities have, the need for more data. Similarly, COVID guidelines in bordering Bangladesh make no mention of the drug, despite successful studies done there.

In India, premier medical centers have, nonetheless, adopted it. In Bangladesh, doctors are using combination ivermectin/doxycycline therapy for home care, as are major hospitals in Dhaka for inpatients.

“The economy is flying,” Dr. Tarek Alam, who led several studies on the drug’s efficacy, told me in an email. “Hospitals have empty COVID beds and the initial demand for ICU has come down.” Indeed, Bangladesh – the world’s most densely populated country — has an even lower fatality rate than India, ranking 126th globally.

TRM
Reply to  William Astley
February 12, 2021 9:10 am

We are getting our butts kicked by third world countries with 1/10th, or less, the health care spending per capita. Is it just me or does anyone else find that embarrassing?

Maybe fire Fauci, Tam and the WHO and hire some folks from India or Nicaragua (who are also doing fine with no lockdown and no masks). I want results and the current bunch hash shown their ineptitude.

Marc L.
Reply to  TRM
February 13, 2021 6:55 pm

Third world countries are smaller, less attractive markets for big pharma, so they haven’t corrupted their medical establishment quite as much as ours. Their governments and health authorities are free to pursue the best and most efficient course of action, which we now know entails repurposing widely used old drugs like HCQ and Ivermectin, resulting in far fewer deaths and damage to their domestic economies.

As I’ve posted above, India as packaged a covid early outpatient treatment kit with ivermectin, doxyclene and zinc supplement, I wonder how many lives could have saved here with this simple package:

! VIRUS VACCINE! (14).jpg
February 10, 2021 8:53 pm

…The word is spelled persistence…

Juan Slayton
Reply to  Leo Smith
February 10, 2021 9:31 pm

“It’s a *** poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word.”
-Andrew Jackson

Reply to  Ric Werme
February 10, 2021 11:22 pm

Don’t beat yourself up. Ever noticed how the people correcting others’ spelling, NEVER have web pages of their own?

Joel O'Bryan
February 10, 2021 9:35 pm

The real frontier of excitement is Crispr-Cas gene editing (the DNA genome inside cells) and the possibility of therapeutically correcting genetic errors in targeted tissues.

The more scary use is doing it to germ line cells (sperm and ova) to create super humans.

So many ethical and moral issues with that.

RoHa
February 10, 2021 9:45 pm

Sounds like brilliant science, but we don’t know the long-term effects. If I had to be vaccinated, I’d prefer a more traditional one like the Sputnik V or the Johnson and Johnson.

John Tillman
Reply to  RoHa
February 11, 2021 7:14 am

While more traditional, tnhey and AZN’s still user 21st century tech, ie adenovirus vectors carrying CoV spike proteins.

John Tillman
Reply to  John Tillman
February 11, 2021 9:01 am

Sorry for typos on phone: “they” and “use”.

high treason
February 10, 2021 10:34 pm

The right to legal redress in the event of injury that is not your fault is a fundamental human right. This has been taken away with the stroke of a pen. Vaccine makers are immune from prosecution, so we don’t have any real redress except paying our own compensation.
The PCR test does not actually detect the virus- it amplifies fragments. The disease is so deadly you have to have a test to see if you ever had it. In terms of death rate, it is silmilar to seasonal flu.
Here in Australia, they are going to look for every avenue of coercion they can find- can’t travel overseas, can’t use public transport, can’t receive government pensions etc.
Holding our basic human rights for ransom. This is a crime against humanity.

The only vaccine we need is a vaccination against propaganda. I for one will oppose the vaccine. The way we are being coerced is highly suspicious. It is quite likely that the vaccine will cause serious issues in to the future due to changes in our genome.

I am not religous, but the whole COVID thing, complete with RFID chip to verify it is straight out of Revelation. The whole direction the world is taking ticks all the boxes for the impending total disaster we are heading for.

yirgach
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 12, 2021 6:01 am

The death rate is meaningless as the CDC changed the death certificate reporting requirements (after 17 years) so there is no difference if you die from Covid or with Covid, it’s reported as from Covid. The majority of deaths are elderly with comorbidities. I personally know several in their 80’s who had symptoms no worse than a mild cold, but they were healthy to begin with.

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TRM
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 12, 2021 9:20 am

But they have done ZERO of the bi-annual reports that they were supposed to. Doesn’t instil much confidence when they do stuff like this.

More vaccine safety information reported by RFK Jr’s group:

https://www.icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Stipulated-Order-copy-1.pdf

ICAN = Informed Consent Action Network
HHS = Heath and Human Services

ICAN therefore filed a Freedom of Information Act, FOIA, request on August 25th, 2017 to HHS seeking copies of the biennial reports that HHS was supposed to submit to Congress, starting in 1988, detailing the improvements it made every two years to vaccine safety. HHS stonewalled ICAN for eight months refusing to provide any substantive response to this request. 

ICAN was therefore forced to file a lawsuit to force HHS to either provide copies of its biennial vaccine safety reports to Congress or admit it never filed these reports. 

The result of the lawsuit is that HHS had to finally and shockingly admit that it never, not even once, submitted a single biennial report to Congress detailing the improvements in vaccine safety. 

This speaks volumes to the seriousness by which vaccine safety is treated at HHS and heightens the concern that HHS doesn’t have a clue as to the actual safety profile of the now 29 doses, and growing, of vaccines given by one year of age. 

James
Reply to  high treason
February 11, 2021 4:25 am

Very well said: “This is a crime against humanity. The only vaccine we need is a vaccination against propaganda.” 

Common people need to stand up against those money minded people and organisations. Current day society showed impulse of money and material benefits can be so strong it can overtake all values and ethics. Top organisations and top officials on whom common people are relying can a part of it!

Media are now fully captured to promote propaganda. All important information are suppressed by the search engine. Any death or side effects people experience after the vaccine are marked as normal. Though most of the cases the symptom of deaths are particularly 2 to 3 types of failure. All the record of sudden deaths, symptoms and date of death after vaccination should be made public in popular government websites.

There are more deaths to come with similar symptoms due to medium and long time effect (as those effects were not even tested) and as usual, those would be marked as normal and no link can be shown.

Common people need to step up for any act against humanity.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  high treason
February 11, 2021 4:28 am

they cant remove pensions
they did withhold child care bonuses to force kiddies vax as well as banning kindy etc
this when our pop rates were some of the worlds highest vaxxed already around 92%
covids been useful for bringing truth re damn near useless fluvax actual % use as well as herd imune levels at 70% or so being enough
made me smile

mcswell
Reply to  high treason
February 11, 2021 10:36 am

The only vaccine we need is a vaccination against propaganda.” I guess you’re a candidate for the Darwin Award.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  high treason
February 11, 2021 10:45 am

So which group is gonna get Darwined, that people who do or the people who do not get vaccinated?
Reckon we is gonna find out once sufficient time has passed to get some meaningful numbers.

TRM
Reply to  high treason
February 12, 2021 9:16 am

Vaccine Coercion = Nuremberg Code Violation

Any attempt at coercing people into accepting the RNA vaccine is in clear violation of the Nuremberg Code. It clearly mentions “constraint or coercion” as violations.

It laid down 10 standards to which physicians must conform when carrying out experiments on human subjects:

# 1) The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, “or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion”; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. 

This means that you can NOT constrain us or coerce us into acceptance. No restrictions are allowed and none will be tolerated.

# 6) The degree of risk to be taken should never exceed that determined by the humanitarian importance of the problem to be solved by the experiment.

This covid-19 disease with an IFR of 0.3 does NOT qualify. It would not have even been a pandemic before the 2008 changes to the definition of pandemic that required an IFR > 1.0 to be declared. Even the worst hit parts of the world are at an IFR of 0.5 so half.

Reference: http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/nuremberg/

The FACT that this is a medical experiment is quite clear and undeniable.
All of the RNA vaccines like Moderna & Pfizer have this in common: 

1) It is experimental RNA technology
2) It has NEVER worked in man nor beast
3) It killed the animals in 2012 when they were exposed to the wild virus
4) They skipped animal testing this time
5) Has no long term studies (the data from phase 2 trials is STILL not public)
6) It changes you at the cellular level to produce antibodies 
7) There is NO way to turn it off if it doesn’t shut down like theory predicts.
8) Ivermectin is vastly safer, vastly more effective & vastly cheaper and has over a dozen RCT studies with DATA PUBLICLY AVAILABLE (unlike the vaccines).

File a suit against anyone engaging in containment & coercion.

Alex
February 10, 2021 11:17 pm

501 deaths hours/days after mRNA vaccine jab
https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?EVENTS=on&PAGENO=1&PERPAGE=10&ESORT&REVERSESORT&VAX=%28COVID19%29&VAXTYPES=%28COVID-19%29&DIED=Yes&fbclid=IwAR2rBWzmzUUh-5eWc3N4gp6PV3aEnpIyzAX0Oazu32g8hzrPHqKfVmflV1M
Peanuts.

Katie Price’s son Harvey hospitalized after AZ jab
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/13973855/harvey-price-katie-covid-vaccine-reaction/amp/

One in a thousand gets face swelling/paralyze

mRNA vaccine sends a “message” to the cell.
The cell is not a computer.
Not all cells read the message correctly.
Which protein will they build?
What I will be immune to?
What about autoimmune deceases?

Why the CEOs of Pfizer, Biontech, moderns forbid jab’s to their employers and are still not vaccinated themselves?

James
Reply to  Alex
February 11, 2021 4:32 am

Thanks, Alex for mentioning that.

“Why the CEOs of Pfizer, Biontech, moderns forbid jab’s to their employers and are still not vaccinated themselves?”

They should be top in the list, so are politicians, top officials of WHO, and all top influential promoters of vaccines.

This is a popular demand of common people.

Alex
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 11, 2021 10:10 am

Yes, the first vaccinations were given to the elderly and ill.

Mark
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 11, 2021 10:16 am

Not only old people died, but many health care workers without underlying health conditions also died and there are only 2 to 3 symptoms of deaths in most of the cases. In India already 23 deaths, nine persons died in the hospital while 14 deaths are recorded outside the hospital. None were linked to the vaccine by the authority as usual. If a single death is due to side effects of vaccine, (though indications are very clear), which is hard to prove legally what liabilities are there for the vaccine company, politicians, media and authoriser of vaccine? Family is loosing a healthy earning member and what consolations are there? The count should not be as a statistics but a single death of a healthy earning family member ruins many lives. Indian state government are now trying to compensate those families with monetary benefits, but why vaccine companies are so quiet? Why no legal steps will be taken against them? Why they will not share their huge monetory benefit with those affected families?

Patrick MJD
February 11, 2021 12:10 am

Questions are now being asked does the current batch of, rapidly created and untested, vaccines for SARS-COV-2 also handle the B117 (UK) strain, the the South African strain and the now, new, UK strain (I don’t have its designation). To me, this suggests more, continued, lockdowns/shutdowns based on fear!

Vincent Causey
February 11, 2021 12:37 am

UK care homes had done a pretty good job at keeping Covid-19 away from the residents after the initial debacle that the government caused. From Summer through to the end of the year care home excess deaths did not exceed the 5 year average.

Then something happened. In mid December the Pfizer vaccine was introduced to care home residents. Now, for some unknown reason, more and more care homes started reporting outbreaks of Covid-19 among residents and excess deaths are now ahead of the 5 year average.

This is not in the national news – you have to get it from the government’s own ONS and from staff reporting on social media, although there have been some local newspapers reporting it. But their line is that it is an ironic tragedy, catching Covid-19 just a few weeks too early. Nobody is asking the important question – what is the connection between the two events? Statisticians should be analysing the data to find the P number – what is the probability this is happening by chance? At the moment, no idea!

Alex
Reply to  Vincent Causey
February 11, 2021 2:16 am

The same in Germany.
First, the claim was, the medical personell that gave the jabs were infected.
But recently, there are reports of COVID outbreaks in care homes two weeks AFTER SECOND Pfizer jab.
Now, the thesis is: the mRNA vaccines do not prevent the infection. They “prevent the fatalities”.
It is a big problem, when any negative information about the vaccines is censored.

Gmm973
Reply to  Alex
February 11, 2021 4:54 am

The same in France

James
Reply to  Gmm973
February 11, 2021 11:11 am

How in a civil society all media, web search engines can be under the control of experimental vaccine manufacturer and their beneficiaries? Those are only looking after the monetary profit of vaccine companies where ethics and humanity are downtrodden. People should ask for all direct and indirect huge monetary beneficiaries involved in this whole vaccination and PCR testing process. Thorough scrutiny and auditing are required. It is high time now people with true conscience should step up.

Jeremy Poynton
February 11, 2021 4:09 am

It may be that this is a wonderful life changing venture. There is a problem however, with regard to the current versions being used.

  1. Clinical testing for Pfizer at least is planned to be completed in 2023. So the vaccine is experimental.
  2. Previous anti-Corona virus vaccines have all failed at the animal testing stage. Ferrets are used – it seems their respiratory system is the closest in structure and operation to ours. The problem has always been “ADE” – Antibody-dependency Enhancement”, which is the name for what happens when the vaccinated organism meets another CV virus, and goes haywire – knows as a Cytokine storm, which breaks down all your organs and can kill in 4 or 5 days.
  3. Ergo, the vaccine is experimental. No experimental medical treatment is permitted without full disclosure of the risks involved (which has not happened) and with the patient’s formal consent. We can thank Dr. Mengele, for this – it is stated in the Nuremberg code.
  4. References from PubMed

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22536382/
Immunization with SARS coronavirus vaccines leads to pulmonary immunopathology on challenge with the SARS virus
Conclusions: These SARS-CoV vaccines all induced antibody and protection against infection with SARS-CoV. However, challenge of mice given any of the vaccines led to occurrence of Th2-type immunopathology suggesting hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV components was induced. Caution in proceeding to application of a SARS-CoV vaccine in humans is indicated.”

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31607599/

Influenza vaccination and respiratory virus interference among Department of Defense personnel during the 2017-2018 influenza season
Conclusions: Receipt of influenza vaccination was not associated with virus interference among our population. Examining virus interference by specific respiratory viruses showed mixed results. Vaccine derived virus interference was significantly associated with coronavirus and human metapneumovirus; however, significant protection with vaccination was associated not only with most influenza viruses, but also parainfluenza, RSV, and non-influenza virus coinfections.”

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33113270/

Informed consent disclosure to vaccine trial subjects of risk of COVID-19 vaccines worsening clinical disease

“Conclusions drawn from the study and clinical implications: The specific and significant COVID-19 risk of ADE should have been and should be prominently and independently disclosed to research subjects currently in vaccine trials, as well as those being recruited for the trials and future patients after vaccine approval, in order to meet the medical ethics standard of patient comprehension for informed consent.”

I will be happy to have the vaccine when it is no longer experimental. I am no anit-vaxxer; indeed, I had the UK anti-Pneumonia vaccine for over 65s a few months back – PPV, I think it was called; and is simple a mix of various Pneumonia bacteria with a few neutral adjutants.

David
Reply to  Jeremy Poynton
February 11, 2021 6:01 am

Exactly. Your item in point 2 is actually what is implied by “strong immunogenic response”. All of the test animals died after vaccination when exposed to the virus being “immunized” against. This is a very experimental treatment.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  David
February 11, 2021 10:03 am

Yes! It is experimental and here in Australia, you sign a waiver when you get the jab. I certainly won’t be doing that and I advise anyone I know considering getting it to not do so.

Alex
Reply to  Jeremy Poynton
February 11, 2021 6:46 am
VforVendetta
February 11, 2021 4:59 am

As far as I know, there is no long term double blind study which proves that vaccinations are useful. However, there is one which demonstrated that vaccins are harmful. This has been mentioned by Dr. Klinghardt several times.

Besides, no one has actually ever seen this virus. All studies are fake studies as they don’t adhere to scientific standards -> postulates from Koch or River and control experiments. A journalist named Engelbrecht and a free researcher named Demeter have contacted the CoVid research teams and asked them if they follow scientific standards. No, they don’t and most of them even admit it!
Dr. Calisher and many others haven’t found a single study which scientifically proves the existence of this new Corona virus.

The PCR test is a joke and was teared apart by 22 international experts. It’s just spouting out fantasy numbers. We’ve seen cases were a papaya and a glass of cola were tested positive!

If you really want to flood yoour body with strange chemicals like MCR5, at least take the Russian vaccin which is a vector vaccination. rna is highly experimental and not well tested. However, there have been reports about numerous deaths after the vaccination and cases of shocks and high fever.

And avoid the masks! They contain micro plastics and formaldehyde. You don’t want these in your lungs or in the ocean!

John Tillman
Reply to  VforVendetta
February 11, 2021 8:26 am

Among vector vaccines, AZN and JNJ are far preferable. Sputnik V approval was rushed, violating all trial protocols.

John Tillman
Reply to  VforVendetta
February 11, 2021 8:29 am

US researchers took scanning electron microscopic images of the WuWHOFlu virus a year ago:

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/novel-coronavirus-sarscov2-images
comment image?itok=mykCrOUw

Patrick MJD
Reply to  VforVendetta
February 11, 2021 10:09 am

Totally agree. Masks are mandatory on public transport where there has been not one singe case identified as originating on PT. I bought some a few weeks back, not sure where they were made, I know they are not N95 rated, and they stink when on. Has a slight “creosote” whiff to them initially. They actually start to make me feel ill. Fortunately, I can work from home which I do since masks became mandatory on PT.

jim hogg
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 11, 2021 1:02 pm

If the virus is transmitted by singing, talking, coughing, shouting, breathing even, then where people sit close together and interact the risk of transmission must surely be increased. Most people on public transport appear to wear masks. That masks make a contribution to breaking the lines of transmission should no longer be in doubt given the amount of supporting evidence – and logic/common sense. The likelihood of infection being passed on when an infected person is present will have been reduced considerably by the use of masks, esp if fewer people use PT. The death toll amongst taxi and other PT drivers appears to be higher than average (though there could be other reasons for that). Identifying where someone caught or didn’t catch the virus won’t always be straightforward.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  jim hogg
February 11, 2021 11:01 pm

Then why are medically rated masks for viruses rated N95 and can be worn only once?

mcswell
Reply to  VforVendetta
February 11, 2021 10:46 am

there is no long term double blind study which proves that vaccinations are useful”: Not sure whether you’re talking about vaccines for CV19, or vaccines in general. If it’s the latter, then I guess it’s just coincidence that polio, smallpox, and lots of other diseases have virtually disappeared in countries that have strong vaccination programs? If otoh you’re just referring to the CV19 vaccine, then yes, since the vaccines haven’t been in use for years, there are no long-term studies. Duh.

jim hogg
Reply to  mcswell
February 11, 2021 12:46 pm

Thanks mcswell. I’m losing the will to live here, so much rubbish is being recycled.

niceguy
Reply to  mcswell
February 12, 2021 2:12 pm

Polio is exploding after mass vaccination in India, so … consider you debunked.

Craig Rogers
February 11, 2021 5:17 am

Don’t trust the system! 1 John 5:19 The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.. He is a liar, and most humans follow him, liars. Truth is a joke to them..Deception is their nature. JW.org
Before you get the Jab watch this.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/N0k4e7hOIVwB/

https://thenewamerican.com/huge-lawsuits-coming-against-covid-totalitarians-and-con-artists/

Ghandi
February 11, 2021 8:33 am

I think it’s a little early to declare that the mRNA vaccines are “successful.” Having turned vaccine takers into Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs), there is really no way to know what adverse effects, infertility, autoimmune diseases, etc. may manifest in the vaccine takers in the months and years to come. I hope nothing untoward happens to the experimental human subjects who take the mRNA vaccine… but large numbers of negative and avoidable outcomes (including death) is a possibility.

Mark
Reply to  Ghandi
February 11, 2021 10:28 am

So sad…yes, you are right, Ghandi, “adverse effects …. may manifest in the vaccine takers in the months and years to come. …….large numbers of negative and avoidable outcomes (including death) is a possibility.”

Gordon A. Dressler
February 11, 2021 9:13 am

I would just gently suggest that anyone that thinks vaccines based on mRNA (prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, never before widely-used in vaccines for humans) are “safe”, just do a Web search using the phrase “COVID-19 long hauler syndrome”.

mcswell
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
February 11, 2021 10:52 am

Ok, I did the search (with quotes). Not one one of the top ten or so hits I looked at mentioned vaccine safety. Most did not mention vaccinations at all, and one suggested that “long haulers” should get vaccinated. Do you have some particular article that suggests vaccinations cause long hauler syndrome?

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  mcswell
February 11, 2021 12:39 pm

mcswell, I cannot vouch for the accuracy of what you posted since I do not know what search engine you used.

However, I used Google and the search term “COVID-19 long hauler syndrome”.

From my first “hit” (https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/covid-19-information/covid-19-long-haulers.html ): “Novel coronavirus (COVID-19) symptoms can last weeks or months for some people. These patients, given the name ‘long haulers’, have in theory recovered from the worst impacts of COVID-19 and have tested negative. However, they still have symptoms. There seems to be no consistent reason for this to happen. . . . Researchers estimate about 10% of COVID-19 patients become long haulers . . . Health care providers don’t know how many of these symptoms are permanent, or if there is permanent damage being done. . . . Researchers still don’t know much about what causes long hauler symptoms and why they experience such long-term effects. Our infectious disease experts say you should ask your physician before scheduling an appointment to get a COVID-19 vaccine.” (my bold emphasis added)

Now, there are two things to note:
1) Most references to long hauler syndrome discuss it in terms of after-effects of having been infected by the COVID-19 virus, but not directly from any of the vaccines being promoted against it . . . HOWEVER, to the extent that the current vaccines induce an immunological reaction against the same proteins/RNA as carried by the actual virus, no one can say that the vaccines themselves cannot induce long hauler syndrome in humans (per above: “Researchers still don’t know much about what causes long hauler symptoms”). We will know a lot more about this possibility a year or so after the start of widespread administration of vaccines, say by December 2021.
2) You may not have run across the exact words “vaccine safety” in your search . . . but I would urge looking at the overall picture—as indicated by reading my summary of the first Google “hit” above—and use logic to decide for yourself if receiving any of the various COVID -19 vaccines currently available is “safe” vis-vis potential for such itself causing long hauler syndrome.

Fran
February 11, 2021 9:21 am

With the treatments that have been reported to decrease mortality/morbidity if given early, why would anyone take a completely novel vaccine? The reason is the fear campaign that has been deliberate, such that young healthy people who have a better chance of surviving the WuFlu than the HxNx flu have been induced to think they have a 13% risk of dying (according to a survey I saw). The aged think its a 100% death sentence.

Hopefully the mRNA vaccine technology will develop, but I will wait till it has at least a 5 year followup.

mcswell
Reply to  Fran
February 11, 2021 10:55 am

why would anyone take a completely novel vaccine?” This is a trick question, right? Because I don’t want to get the disease in the first place, as opposed to getting it and then relying on treatments that have been “reported” to help (even assuming I can get early treatment).

And no, at least this aged (70 years) person doesn’t think it’s a 100% death sentence. Nor do the other “aged” people I know.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 11, 2021 5:52 pm

Uhhh . . . the release of Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna mRNA vaccines occurred in many countries prior to the release of the J&J DNA vaccine.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Ric Werme
February 12, 2021 7:32 am

“We could well have had a situation where the state’s mass vaccination centers had no appointments for a month but the J&J vaccine might have been available at pharmacies thanks to its ease of refrigeration.”

Well, yes . . . but we didn’t, did we?

I prefer to accept—and live in—the real world.

Corky
February 11, 2021 10:42 am

How do you decide whether to take this jab or not?

Experimental should be the first statement in bold because the effects of this “vaccine” will not be known for years and as such it is experimental. UK recently advertised for contracts to prepare new data base capacity and probably algorithms to record the result of their experience, and note that they expect around 4 years to begin to produce meaningful interpretations of the data.

How many folks want to be part of this experiment without wanting to understand long-term impacts? At one time when “bleeding” was used to treat disease and if the patient did not improve, the lack of improvement was placed on the notion that the patient hadn’t been adequately bled.

Humanoids evolved and/or changed through thousands of years and the acceleration in the operating environment has overtaken our operating systems to deal with. So how do we expect our biological-chemical-electrical systems to respond? Are the technocrats simply going to rely on the technology to speed their understanding of that response?

Whenever our government and media have invested their considerable resources in amplifiying fear as the means to cause the “proper,” government-desired response, I know the action is to force the population (herd) to move to a different pasture so to speak. And as I believe FDR said, nothing ever just happens in politics. And to the folks we select to be in power, there is nothing beyond politics.

Game on!

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Corky
February 11, 2021 11:03 pm

At one time when “bleeding” was used to treat disease…”

It still is, its called venesection.

Myron
February 11, 2021 5:45 pm

I understand that our bodies produces things as we need them. But these mRNA vaccines ‘trick’ our bodies into producing something. What I want to know is where is the off switch? What tells our cells to stop or do they keep producing the antigen even after our bodies have antibodies? If all future vaccines are mRNA and our cells are constantly producing all these different antigens is that good or bad?

Matthew Schilling
February 12, 2021 1:58 pm

Someone please correct me if/where I am wrong, but isn’t one good definition of a virus, “RNA enclosed inside a lipid shell”? If that is correct, aren’t each of these mRNA “vaccines” essentially a synthetic virus?

If Pfizer and Moderna aren’t currently creating a virus, aren’t they merely a hop, skip OR jump away from doing so?

tomo
February 12, 2021 8:27 pm

This is going to get lost in the noise… and it’s not directly relevant to mRNA R&D…

But I feel it needs repeating.

I feel it’s widely acknowledged that the “UK’s minister for virus response” isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer – but – he announced in August 2020 that he planned to scrap Public Health England (https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/15/matt-hancock-scrap-failing-public-health-england-13134454/) .

Little has been said about that – but it is clear that dim bulb Hancock was incensed that he’d been misled and lied to by bureaucrats from PHE – repeatedly – primarily, but not exclusively about their fraudulent accounting wrt virus mortality – and that that had gone on for some considerable time (months when days mattered).

We should remember that PHE were largely ejected from the NHS at the behest of annoyed clinicians who found them insufferably meddlesome, mendacious and essentially incompetent above the footsoldier grades.

We haven’t really seen anything that sensibly would increase anybody’s confidence in what I call the Public ‘Elf bureaucrat’s competence. The bureaucratic rapacity for swish offices and fat paychecks coupled to and their fresh chair at the top table is still polluting the response to this business – since in the UK their managers figure largely in the SAGE advisory groups feeding policy into government and PR professionals are scampering around on grotesque day rates re-wording their pronouncements to be parroted by a malleable media…. As others here have commented – other proven therapies are being deliberately excluded.

The backlog of routine medical procedures in the UK has simply exploded to what now looks like a several year wait for routine procedures….

I see similar though not identical stuff going on in the USA.

This “pandemic” went political at a very early stage – It’s a miserable shit-show… and I feel that some people are pleased with that outcome.

Last edited 5 months ago by tomo
Greg
February 13, 2021 11:58 am

There is something about Dr Weissman’s lips which makes be feel profoundly uncomfortable.
It would be in his interest to not find himself in a confined space with me.

Greg
February 13, 2021 12:13 pm

Very instructive to look at UK “cases” per day. Despite a never ending increase in the number of tests, https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing the number of “cases” ( aka positive test results ) peaked on 29th Dec 2020 and has been in freefall ever since.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases

This is way too soon for any attribution to the level of vaccinations done at that time plus the time needed to develop an immune response to the vaccine.

So far, it has the classic form of any epidemic which has peaked, for natural reasons and is now in decline.

Greg
February 13, 2021 12:16 pm

weissman looks like a frkking creep, keep him away from me for his own good.

He makes my skin crawl.

Last edited 5 months ago by Greg
Greg
February 13, 2021 12:21 pm

Despite a never ending increase in the level of testing: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing , UK number of new “cases” ( aka +ve tests, not clinically ill patients ) has been in freefall since the peak on 29 Dec 2020.

Thus, this has nothing to do with the sociologic placebos they are sticking in your deltoids. The “second wave” is descending as any epidemic does, naturally. It has run its course.

Daily new “cases” is now around 15k compared to 80k at the peak on 29th Dec.

Anyone touting the current situation as a health crisis has a bridge they want to sell you ( or maybe a vaccine ).

You’ve heard the story about how they repaint the Golden Gate bridge and when they have finished, it’s time to start again. Well covid “vaccines” are the same. They are already laying the ground work PR.

Last edited 5 months ago by Greg
richard
February 13, 2021 4:41 pm

For a vaccine that does not stop you from passing on covid , getting covid or dying of covid. It might reduce your symptoms and it might kill you. Strange that it received and award but great for marketing to get idiots to take it.

richard
February 13, 2021 4:46 pm

Hopefully ongoing court cases will see the end of the fraud- IV. Court Rulings From Portugal And Ecuador

  1. Some weeks ago, an appeal court in Portugal ruled that the PCR tests are not able to ascertain infection let alone illness, which is exactly what the inventor of the PCR tests, the Nobel Prizewinner Kary Mullis repeatedly emphasised – At issue was the case of four German tourists, one of whom had tested positive, and all of whom the authorities had placed under what the court determined to be a kind of house arrest – similar to the action of German administrative courts who follow blindly German fake science; thereby the appeal court confirmed an earlier finding that the quarantine was unconstitutional.
  2. This judgement is a slap in the face for the German administrative courts, which were forced to concede that PCR tests cannot ascertain the presence of infection
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