Contrast Between New York And Florida

Reposted from the MANHATTAN CONTRARIAN

Francis Menton

Of all the states, the one most comparable to New York by demographics is Florida. These two states are close not only in overall population, but also in relative numbers of immigrants and of minority groups. As to population, as recently as 2013, New York had slightly more population than Florida (both around 19.6 million), but since then Florida has been growing rapidly, while New York has been shrinking slowly. Pending release of final 2020 Census numbers, estimates put Florida’s current population at about 21.8 million, and New York’s at about 19.4 million.

Despite being, at least for now, relatively close in population and other demographics, New York and Florida could not be more different in their approaches to public policy. In Florida, Republicans have controlled the legislature (both houses) since 1997, and the governorship since 1999. Florida exemplifies the low tax, low spend, low regulation approach to state government. New York is firmly in control of the progressive left, and exemplifies high taxes, high spending, and high regulation.

Different policies lead to different results. For today I’ll focus mainly on the policy response to the Covid-19 virus. On this subject, the differences in policy mostly concern regulation, rather than taxing and spending.

Yesterday, I had a roundup of the current onerous regulatory response to the virus in New York. By contrast, Florida, led by Republican Governor Ron DeSantis, has been very much at the opposite end of the regulatory response spectrum. As to results, here’s the bottom line: As one would expect, the economic decline caused by intentional government suppression of the economy has been much, much less severe in Florida than New York; but just as important, Florida has also experienced, and continues to experience, superior health results to New York. In other words, Florida stands as a clear demonstration that all of New York’s behavioral mandates (e.g., masks) and intentional destruction of small business have had no measurable effect whatsoever in decreasing spread of the virus or in improving health results.

As per my review yesterday, in New York City, restaurant dining has been severely restricted for months under fluctuating directives, and as of last week, by order of the Governor, all indoor restaurant dining has been shut down entirely, with no indication of when it may re-open. Theaters, concerts and performance venues are all shuttered, and it appears they will remain so at least until the Spring. Although not mentioned in yesterday’s post, since April 17 we have had a state-wide mandate for mask-wearing covering “anyone over the age of 2” when “in a public place.”

Florida at first imposed some substantial restrictions on restaurants and other indoor businesses, but began loosening them in early June, when, for example, bars and movie theaters were allowed to reopen. On September 28 Governor DeSantis issued an executive order rescinding almost all of the remaining restrictions. At a news briefing that day, DeSantis was quoted as saying “Every business has the right to operate,” and “We’re not closing anything going forward.” WebMD summarized Florida’s provisions going forward from that time:

Businesses that have used remote work protocols can return to unrestricted staffing at their offices. Employees can resume non-essential travel. Theme parks can return to normal operations, and gyms can operate at full capacity. Bars and clubs can operate at full capacity but with “limited social distancing protocols.”

In Florida today, theaters are open, concerts are happening, and the iconic theme parks are accepting visitors (if on a somewhat restricted basis).

As to masks, Florida never imposed a state-wide mandate, but instead left it up to each county to make its own decision. Twenty-two counties imposed mask mandates for at least some period of time, but 45 never did. Townhall on December 21 has a long piece (mostly based on a paywalled study of the data at Rational Ground) giving the results. Those results are totally devastating to any claim of effectiveness of mask mandates. From Town Hall (with internal quote from Rational Ground):

If masks did even close to as advertised, one would expect to see the counties that went maskless to be absolute dumpster fires next to the counties that implemented mandates, right? At the very least, the numbers should favor the masked areas by more than a percentage point or two. So, how did it go? Yep, it was the Mask Cult’s worse nightmare: “When counties DID have a mandate in effect, there were 667,239 cases over 3,137 days with an average of 23 cases per 100,000 per day. When counties DID NOT have a countywide order, there were 438,687 cases over 12,139 days with an average of 22 cases per 100,000 per day.”

In short, the mask-free counties actually had better health results than the counties with mask mandates.

As part of his September 28 directives, Governor DeSantis announced that he would not enforce any fines or penalties for failure to wear masks.

So let’s compare health and economic results as between Florida and New York. First, health:

  • Florida. Deaths per million population, pandemic inception to date (figures from Worldometers.info as of December 22): 966. Deaths within last 10 days, most recent first, from Dec 21 back to Dec 12: 106, 86, 69, 108, 102, 112, 89, 137, 81, 71 — total of 961 over that 10 day period.
  • New York. Deaths per million population, pandemic inception to date: 1,886 (almost double Florida’s rate — and Florida has far more elderly people). Deaths within last 10 days, most recent first from Dec 21 to Dec 12: 179, 95, 85, 121, 156, 112, 126, 120, 87, 79 — total of 1160 over the ten days, or more than 20% more than Florida, even though Florida has more than 10% more population.

If New York’s elected leaders have anything to show for turning this city into a ghost town, you sure can’t find it in those statistics.

Now, as to economic statistics:

  • Florida. Unemployment rate for November (most recent available): 6.4% (versus national rate of 6.7%)
  • New York. Unemployment rate for New York State for November: 8.4%; for New York City, 12.1%. Clearly, New York City is bearing the brunt of the forced closures of the restaurant and entertainment industries.

For New York City, that extra almost 6% people unemployed by forced government action, as compared to Florida, represents about 200,000 people, most of them from the lower end of the income distribution. I suppose you could kind of, sort of justify intentionally putting all those people out of work if you could show some kind of health benefit from the decrees. But there is no health benefit to be shown. New York’s health results are demonstrably worse than those of Florida. The virus does its own thing, despite our dictators’ desperate need to show that they are “doing something,” however meaningless the “something” may be.

In other comparisons of public policy metrics between the two states, Florida’s annual state government budget is about $92 billion, while New York’s is $177 billion. How could that possibly be, when Florida has 10% more people? New York City spends almost $29,000 per student on K-12 education, while Florida spends less than $10,000 — and Florida gets somewhat better results on the NAEP national tests. And of course, New York has some of the highest income tax rates in the country, and yet has a legislature desperate to raise more revenue by hiking rates even higher; while Florida has no income tax at all and yet seems to have sufficient money to go around.

Florida shows us all what basic competent state government looks like. The extreme lack of competence in New York is simply shocking.

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Joe Belford
December 24, 2020 2:13 pm

we all know it is about forcing in to one world government. Controlled by the UN backed China. it is sad state of affairs, and why i sold everything, and left Canada, A country my family fought for , and lived in since 1821.

markl
Reply to  Joe Belford
December 24, 2020 3:04 pm

Where’d you move to?

Scissor
Reply to  Joe Belford
December 24, 2020 3:08 pm

Where does one go?

commieBob
Reply to  Joe Belford
December 24, 2020 8:15 pm

The number of people willing to leave the United States for political reasons is vanishingly small. Every now and then (most recently after President Trump was elected) a whole bunch of Americans swear that they’re moving to Canada. Somehow they don’t seem to materialize at the border. (Actually, during Viet Nam, there were tons of draft dodgers.)
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I’m guessing that the number of people actually leaving Canada for political reasons is similarly small.
<br><br>
A large portion of my family lives in China. They show no desire to move here and they’re not complaining about living in a repressive regime. Of course, they’re comparing their condition now with the way things used to be.
<br><br>
If you want to know what a repressive regime is like, talk to folks who escaped the USSR. We have it so good in Canada and America but I bet that not one person in a hundred realizes that or is even the tiniest bit grateful.

gowest
December 24, 2020 2:45 pm

No wonder Trump decided to move – writing was clearly on the wall – same goes for California…

Enginer01
Reply to  gowest
December 24, 2020 6:26 pm

As I have noted before, the overall governmental response to the Covid crisis has been pitiful, and unscientific. I would like to give Trump credit for overcoming obstacles to rapid deployment of a vaccine, but I’m not sure about that either. My father was a top manager in rapid response during WW II, and the Defense Authorization Act worked then, too.

I have numerous times written the Governor’s office in Florida, stressing that the virus is largely spread by aerosols, and that ventilation improvement’s are the quickest and easiest solution, but the only response was to loosen up the restrictions at the beaches. Wow.

Ian W
Reply to  Enginer01
December 26, 2020 3:50 am

The US Constitution has very significant limits on the powers of the federal government known as the ‘Enumerated Powers’. There are 18 of them, none of which include health care. The Enumerated Powers were further reinforced by the Tenth Amendment making it clear that anything outside those enumerated powers were powers delegated to each State and if not them then to ‘the people’. Even back then subsidiarity (as the EU would call it) was seen as essential. The United States is a constitutional republic of states and not a single ‘democracy‘.

The continual harping that ‘Trump didn’t handle the pandemic correctly’ and that the federal government response was ‘pitiful’, shows ignorance of the constitutional legal position that it was neither his nor congress’ job to handle health care. What the president did do was get all the states governors together and then provided assistance as requested and coordinated their responses. This was difficult against the background of democrat states wanting the pandemic to damage the economy as much as possible before the election; and that is one of the reasons that New York did so badly compared to Florida.

Warp Speed was not a mere use of the Defense Authorization Act, as was used with huge success to increase supply of ventilators (incorrectly thought at the time to be essential for COVID-19 hospital treatment). Warp Speed was the government buying the financial risk of vaccine development allowing the normal beancounter cautious development of vaccines by the pharmaceutical companies to be telescoped wherever possible phases of development and testing sequences were telescoped. This allowed production of vaccines to commence before the final phases of testing had completed for promising vaccines. This ‘agile’ approach to development meant that the vaccines are available years before they would normally be even in initial testing. Even in September we were being assured by ‘expert’ talking heads that the earliest we would see a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine would be middle of 2021 yet now 3 months later it has already passed a million doses given. I am reminded of Arthur C Clarke’s quote:

When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

We had many elderly but distinguished doctors telling us that a vaccine in 2020 was impossible and the president proved them wrong

Ron Long
December 24, 2020 2:50 pm

Great posting of them vs. us statistics. The per student spending disparity is due to the influence of the Teachers Union, wherein the teachers in New York think schools ae about them and families in Florida think schools are about the students first. I always try for a low season (June-August, which for us in Argentina is middle of winter: win-win!) vacation in Florida and I have never been disappointed (Marco Island in May next on the schedule).

JP Miller
Reply to  Ron Long
December 24, 2020 4:09 pm

I live in Naples. Marco is an excellent choice…and beaches and restaurants are open!

Mark E Shulgasser
December 24, 2020 3:51 pm

Rational Grounds charts are impressive, but the rapid rise in cases everywhere in the last few months seems so bogus. Charting # of cases means nothing, isn’t anyone charting number of tests given, and then the percentage of positives within that number? Obviously as testing has accelerated, raw # of cases will also have accelerated. — not to mention that definitions, and modes of ‘testing’ between now and last April have changed to the point that what is represented on a graph as a continuous value is anything but.

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  Mark E Shulgasser
December 24, 2020 4:39 pm

If they were “so bogus,” then daily death totals would not also have had their corresponding, rapid rise. And countries like Germany which supposedly had high rates of testing and contact tracing early would not be having their own rapid rise.

Testing has expanded dramatically since the spring, but it is not expanding week-by-week to explain the rapid rise in the last few months.

Jeff Meyer
Reply to  Michael Jankowski
December 24, 2020 6:41 pm

It is the cold and flu season….. Oh wait! There is no flu anymore!! It is all Covid!

Last edited 7 months ago by Jeff Meyer
BCBill
Reply to  Michael Jankowski
December 24, 2020 7:14 pm

Can I have some of whatever you are drinking. Death rates have not risen nearly as sharply as positive test rates. There is no exponential increase in death like there was in the spring. Most countries annual mortalities are within normal ranges, the US being a possible exception. The vast majority of deaths remain in the frail.

mario lento
Reply to  BCBill
December 25, 2020 3:10 pm

They are trying to cheat to show more Covid deaths… everything from our election results to the Covid results are part of a control through fear scheme, and all of it is paved with $$ to get the result. I say, you get the result you pay for.

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  BCBill
December 25, 2020 3:32 pm

Just looking at single dates and not moving averages based on the data at https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

Lowest daily case reports in the US (start of the “rapid rise in cases”): Sept 7 – 25,166
Peak: Dec 11 – 280,514
Current: Dec 24 – 193,5567

Corresponding deaths reports on those dates (ignoring that there is a lag):
Sept 7 – 263
Dec 11 – 2,951
Dec 24 – 2,824

Peak death to case ratio on Dec 11 was 0.01052 at the daily new case peak and on Sept 7 it was 0.01045 when the rise started (just went to that decimal place to show that’s where they become different). The ratio on Dec 24 is actually higher at 0.015 as both death and cases are falling (but, as noted, deaths lag cases).

Want a point in the middle? Nov 1 was about halfway. 72,224 reported cases that day and only 427 deaths (0.006). Since then, the “rapid rise” has been faster in daily deaths than new cases.

JP Miller
December 24, 2020 4:06 pm

I live in FL. While my county’s restrictions are more aggressive than I would prefer, I am so thankful Gov de Santis has decentralized these health decisions. I’m in a high risk group (>70, history of asthma), but I prefer governments leave decisions about mask wearing and social distancing to the citizenry. Given good information I am satisfied people will do what’s best, which may not minimize cases/ deaths, but those are not the ultimate criteria. Personal choice in the face of risk must supersede any governmental/ bureaucrat judgment of what’s best.

gringojay
December 24, 2020 4:27 pm

Florida has a higher ratio of people age 65 or older than NewYork. For example in 2018 Census these made up 20.5% of the Florida population, while in contrast these made up 16.4% of the NewYork.

[It seems disparate impact is the most valid metric in USA these days. So it’s not fair that free range South Dakota had/has almost the same % of this Wuhan’Rona target age population as NewYork, with 16.6% in SouthDakota aged 65+ & yet SouthDakota is suffering proportionally less.]

I have a sneaking suspicion that places with high mask usage are actually contributing to the prolonged spread of the CCP’Rona. What with all the manual manipulation we non-medical people do concerning this surface item the consequence in high mask compliant localities is that well intentioned adults are unwitting vectors of transmission.

Which is unfortunate because, according of recent research, the asymptomatic are not themselves transmitting the ‘Rona at a high rate. Yet public policy puts the petri-dish like mask in between people & adds a mobile viral load to compound potential asymptomatic exposure.

a happy little debunker
December 24, 2020 4:28 pm

Population of New York over 65 is about 3.4 million
Population of Florida over 65 is about 4.9 million

RickWill
December 24, 2020 4:35 pm

Population density does not work in NY’s favour. NYC has twice the population density of Miami.

walt
Reply to  RickWill
December 24, 2020 5:12 pm

NYC has a more serious problem for citizens and that is Mayor de Blasio

Ron Long
Reply to  RickWill
December 24, 2020 6:26 pm

Rats in a Skinner Box.

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  RickWill
December 25, 2020 3:39 pm

NY reported 13,347 new cases yesterday and 150 deaths. 5,441 of those cases were in NY, as were 52 deaths. The issues in NY go well beyond NYC.

I get your point about population density in NYC, but come on…the gov’t there has promoted the notion that public transportation is safe during the pandemic.

n.n
December 24, 2020 6:54 pm

Planned Parent was a first-order forcing of excess deaths in the first few months of 2020 in Democrat districts. Still, as with the original wicked solution, throwing granny over the cliff, under the bus, has been normalized with no consequences for the sake of social progress, social justice, and the “secular” religion/ethics of choice (pun intended).

n.n
December 24, 2020 7:00 pm

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1853618/
Postoperative wound infections and surgical face masks: a controlled study

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub5/full
Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses

Physical, not social, isolation in closed spaces (e.g. greenhouse effect) of people in higher risk classes actually made sense, but gave way to social distancing and masks for the sake of politics and convenience. Denying and stigmatizing early treatments only served to exacerbate the excess and accelerated deaths.

Last edited 7 months ago by n.n
Mike O
December 24, 2020 8:37 pm

To be fair, the majority of New York’s deaths came early in this pandemic when we didn’t know much about the virus or the best way to treat it. New York has come down from a high of 900-1000 deaths per day to somewhere near 150 per day. A very cursory look at worldometers has NY slightly worse than FL, but not by much.

Reply to  Mike O
December 24, 2020 9:00 pm

The earlier deaths in NY picked off a lot the most vulnerable people, so it’s not surprising that the death rates are lower now. Note in Table 2 in the attached that as of May 29 New York City’s deaths were 132% higher than the average for the same period in the three previous years. That was way higher than the rest of the USA.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200601140224/https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  Mike O
December 25, 2020 3:51 pm

NY’s governor literally ordered nursing homes to treat COVID-positive patients when everyone said it was a stupid idea. We knew enough then. Yeah, NY has come down from their peak…because they were a disaster.

NY has 187 COVID deaths per 100k in population, better only than New Jersey among US states and DC. Florida is 20th worst at 97.

Right now the new daily cases and daily deaths are pretty even per-capita between NY and FL (and CA). However, FL is almost completely open and has been so for a few months while those states are on different measures of lockdown. And those states have been trending much worse while FL’s case rise has been crawling higher.

EdA the New Yorker
December 24, 2020 8:46 pm

The article fails to note the motivation for cuomo is the 16% death tax in NY. He thus has overseen the deaths of substantially more people than any other state, which he considers such a major accomplishment that he wrote a book about how great he was in achieving that statistic.

Gums
Reply to  EdA the New Yorker
December 24, 2020 9:30 pm

Salute!

Some good points here, and we Floridians may develop herd immunity faster than many states with less population.

Our county in the Panhandle doesn’t have the density that the large ones doen south, but we have the traditional spring breakers and the snowbirds during the cold month up north. Our biggest increase in cases was after Memorial Day when many families came down to enjoy the beaches. With normal sea breezes of ten to fifteen MPH, no way was the virus particle going to jump to someone across from you 3 or 4 feet away unless you stood downwind. Next spike was after 4th of July, and then after Labor Day. Small spike now after Thanksgiving.

We have had a fairly high case rate per capita, and are now at about one person in twenty that has had the virus. Our fatality rate per case is running just below 2%, and almost exactly 50% of the fatalities have been in assisted living facilities. We ask folks to mask up at the usual suspect places, and without any force from the govment 99% of folks maintain a decent distance from the guy in front at the checkout counter. 95% or more clerks are masked in every establishment.

Our experience has been about what I went thru in combat 50 years ago. We knew there would be losses, but we went ahead with life ( i.e. the mission) anyway and took all precautions we could.

Tonight I wish all a Merry Christmas and prosperous 2021.

Gums sends…

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Gums
December 25, 2020 5:18 am

You have nailed it. I have said all along that the areas in Florida by the Gulf with fresh air constantly blowing is a major factor in lessening the spread of this disease. Overcrowded cities with polluted air are a problem.
You also got it right about the northerners coming down here to Florida causing spikes.
I would only add that most people I come in contact with on a daily basis in my store do not have a proper mask and do not wear it properly. They also seem to think that when wearing a mask, there is no need to keep their distance. I have even had more than one person pull down their mask to cough.
Merry Christmas to all, keep on truckin’, and remember:

Fight Climate Fear. Warmer is Better.

Joel O’Bryan
December 24, 2020 9:17 pm

The interesting thing will be if Dementia Joe tries to mandate Covid protocols to the states after his inaugeration. Most of the Republican-led ones tell him and his merry band of socialists to go take flying F@#$&in’ leap. And there won’t be anything he can do about it.

December 25, 2020 3:37 am

Thankfully, no Florida authorities did anything anywhere near as mind-bogglingly idiotic as Gov. Cuomo’s mass transfer of Covid-19 patients into nursing homes which were unequipped to isolate them, nor even as foolish as Mayor de Blasio’s encouragement to New Yorkers to hit the bars.

New York’s epidemic was certainly worsened by mass transit. Here’s some evidence of its role in spreading the disease in and around New York City. This article was way back in July; here’s an excerpt:

the city’s transit workers were hit particularly badly: more than 4,000 MTA employees have gotten sick so far, and 131 died. “It’s like being in a hospital, but without [personal protective equipment],” says MTA subway conductor William Mora, 50, who was out of work for a month with COVID-19; two coworkers he knew died of the virus.

Last edited 7 months ago by Dave Burton
rbabcock
Reply to  Dave Burton
December 25, 2020 6:28 am

Once you get it you won’t again, so at least these MTA employees can go ahead with their lives and jobs not worried about it.

I still don’t understand why our health officials aren’t pushing people to get their Vitamin D and K levels up along with just eating healthier. Plus here in North Carolina if you get the disease there is no treatment. The standard is just isolate yourself and if you get sick enough, go to the hospital. Why is it you have a better shot of getting over it quickly (Ivermectin) in third world countries than here in the US?

Ian W
Reply to  rbabcock
December 26, 2020 4:13 am

The complete lack of advice from the medical talking heads on being sufficient in zinc and vitamin D is approaching criminal. The ‘cure’ that the ‘Front Line Doctors’ have been using successfully on hundreds of outpatients each, can be taken prophylactically: zinc, a zinc ionophore (quercetin often sold in the same capsules), vitamin D3 5000iu, selenium (a brazil nut a day). Intracellular zinc blocks RNA viruses like corona, influenza and polio viruses from using the cells’ ribosomes to replicate. So the infection just stops. (10.1371/journal.ppat.1001176 )

Had the medical authorities not been so concerned about vaccines and instead concentrated on ensuring the the public’s innate immunity was sufficient by diet and supplementation, then this pandemic may not have happened. It is not as if they didn’t know as the reference paper above and others like it are decades old. One cannot help wonder whether the fact that this prophylactic approach would also prevent influenza and polio – both money makers for the industry – might have had something to do with their hostility to proven prophylaxis and similarly based out patient treatments even at the cost of thousands of deaths.

Ken
December 25, 2020 5:51 am

I’ve posted my views both here and elsewhere on this matter. I’m a northern Florida resident in a very rural county of around 52 people per square mile. To this date, I know of no person that has either contracted this virus or who has died of it. I do not wear any type of PPE in my daily life, though have a mesh mask in my truck when I travel out of state to Alabama for major shopping. Alabama does have a mask mandate, that is loosely enforced.

Most businesses are wide open in the small town I’m in. The single grocery store in town requires no PPE. Yesterday, while shopping there, roughly 40% were cosmetically wearing some type of facial covering whether some type of medical mask to something homemade. None were worn properly. Much more virtue signalling than actual protection from anything.

While most all businesses are open, churches remain closed or with very drastic rules regarding worship. When the church I attended began to require masks, I stopped attending. Driving past it yesterday, the sign that normally held worship times was blank. Thought that very odd during Christmas. But many churches are controlled by others from far away.

According to the Florida Department of Health dashboard for the county, there have been 4,400 positive cases and 110 deaths since March. Demographics show many more men than women, 58/42 and race shows as overwhelmingly 53% white as opposed to 19% black.

hornblower
December 25, 2020 8:36 am

When did WUWT become so political? I read to learn about science and AGW exaggeration. Now all we get is how Covid is a hoax. Please go back to where it began.

Gums
Reply to  hornblower
December 25, 2020 9:30 am

Salute!

@hornblower…

When did WUWT become so political?,,,,,Now all we get is how Covid is a hoax.

When most of the money and social program support for poor, questionable, sensational “science” comes from the government that confiscates the money from us, it is no mystery.

I have not seen any significant number of posts on WUWT where folks think the virus is a hoax. I see poltical mandates and processes from state and local government officials using poor science and statistics to no great effect on the virus.

Gums sends…

Pablo from the florida free zone
December 25, 2020 8:38 am

I’ve been keeping track of the weekly stats since Apr 17. Florida’s weekly death average per 100,000 is 2.6 New York’s weekly death average is 4.3 since thanksgiving, Florida’s rate is 2.8, New York’s is 2.5 and I think there are a lot more people coming from out of state to Florida than are rushing to New York

don rady
December 25, 2020 10:21 am

I believe they are doing the mask mandates all wrong:

why not require or at least highly recommend all people with serious underlying conditions to not only wear a mask, but have it be a N95 mask and a face shield. ie; protect our vulnerable.

There should be public instructional video’s on how to properly wear and use masks.

Requiring masks outdoors when people aren’t standing still in close courters with others is stupid. ie; help educate the population on proper use and where and when to wear masks so the minor efficacy that masks due have can be utilized to the maximum to save lives, without trampolining too much on of freedoms and liberties.

right now the mask wearing policies are showing little results with maximum hassles.

Eric Vieira
December 26, 2020 1:47 am

I’m also on the conservative side, but the arguments are not mentioning a few very important differences between NY and FL: first of all the population density. It’s clear that a transmissible disease can spread faster if the people are more densely packed together. The second point is the climate. Temperatures are much warmer in Florida which is known to reduce the spread of the virus. At WUWT one should try to maintain fairness in our argumentations, and not go down to the level of our green socialist adversaries. But as I read once from another commentator in another blog: a disease that is so dangerous that you need a test to know whether you have it or not cannot be that dangerous… at least for the majority of people. For the high risk persons it’s another matter, but this doesn’t justify the lockdown policies that NY followed. In the case of the elderly in the care homes, they even took the worst decision they could have made.

DipChip
December 26, 2020 6:29 am

“Florida shows us all what basic competent state government looks like. The extreme lack of competence in New York is simply shocking.”

However New York’s corruption competence is is outstanding; even while trying to exceed New Jersey.

Spurwing Plover
December 26, 2020 3:05 pm

The Differences Btween Sunny Florida and Gloomy New York well the Sunshine State is not run by some liberal Doofus like Cuomo New Yorkers are disarmed Florida has its Castle Doctrine/Stand your Grounds Law

Kramer
December 27, 2020 9:42 am

Could the “superior health results” between NY and FL be due to the fact that Floridians are exposed to way more sunlight than New Yorkers and hence, get more vitamin D?

Kramer
Reply to  Kramer
December 27, 2020 9:44 am

Plus they get more UV rays as well…

just my 2 cents.

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