The Facts on Andrew Cuomo’s Nursing Home Policy

The Facts on Andrew Cuomo’s Nursing Home Policy

By Anna Lynn and James Agresti

Wednesday morning on ABC’s The View, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo gave a factually misleading explanation for the thousands of people who died with Covid-19 in NY nursing homes.

After co-host Sunny Hostin praised Cuomo’s book Leadership Lessons from the COVID-19 Pandemic as “absolutely fantastic,” she said to the governor:

There has been a lot of confusion about an alleged March 25th order that directed nursing homes to accept in New York, infected Covid patients, possibly leading to the death of more than 6,000 seniors. Now you say in your book that that was a lie—that New York state never demanded or directed that any nursing home accept a Covid-positive patient. The Department of Justice however is now supposedly looking into this issue. Can you explain what really happened?

Cuomo replied:

Yea, what a shock that the Department of Injustice sends a letter a few days before an election trying to advance a political theory. I was shocked and amazed that the Trump administration was capable of such a thing. Sunny, they have played politics on this from day one, right? They have done a terrible job on Covid from day one, and they want a counter-defense, and what they were saying was, “Well, a lot of people died in nursing homes in Democratic states. It’s not just New York, it’s all the Democratic states.”

The truth is a lot of people did die in nursing homes in Democratic states. The truth is people are dying today in nursing homes in Republican states. It’s just that Democratic states had the disease worse and earlier, and older people are more vulnerable to Covid, right? We were introduced to Covid in the state of Washington in a nursing home.

If you look at how many people died in New York nursing homes, New York is number 46 out of 50 states in the percentage of deaths in nursing homes. The way the law works is no nursing home in New York can accept a patient if they don’t believe they can care for that patient adequately, and if they can do it within the safety of their facility.

So the conspiracy they’re trying to spread just has no factual basis. But yes, people in nursing homes died, and they’re playing politics with the issue, which I think is especially cruel because people who lost loved ones in a nursing home, they’re dealing with it, and now they also have to deal with the confusion or the pain of maybe government did this.

Hostin’s choice of words and Cuomo’s entire statement are incompatible with the facts of this matter. The Cuomo administration’s March 25th order is not “alleged” but a fact. This order explicitly states:

No resident shall be denied re-admission or admission to the NH [nursing home] solely based on a confirmed or suspected diagnosis of COVID-19. NHs are prohibited from requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for COVID-19 prior to admission or readmission.

That mandate was at direct odds with two key scientific facts about C-19 that were widely known since the outset of the pandemic:

  1. Elderly people and those with chronic ailments—who are the very definition of nursing home residents—are extremely vulnerable to the virus.
  2. The virus is highly transmissible, and thus, it can easily sweep through large groups of sickly and/or aged people who live together.

Including an estimated 18 days between infection and death, over 5,900 nursing home patients in NY were lost by the time Cuomo rescinded this policy. The fact that Cuomo repealed this mandate belies his claim that it did no harm.

Furthermore, Cuomo’s statistics on NY nursing home deaths are greatly understated because his Department of Health excluded people who caught the disease in a nursing home but died “outside of the facility.” Thus, Cuomo’s “official” figure may undercount the real one by thousands of deaths.

While rejecting calls for an independent investigation, Cuomo has repeatedly blamed others for the nursing home carnage in his state, but none of his explanations hold water:

  • Cuomo first faulted nursing homes, stating that they were only required to readmit C-19 patients “if they have the ability to provide the adequate level of care.” However, Cuomo’s order:
    • unequivocally states in underlined text, “No resident shall be denied re-admission or admission to the NH [nursing home] solely based on a confirmed or suspected diagnosis of COVID-19.”
    • often made it impossible for homes to know if they could provide appropriate care by banning them from “requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for COVID-19 prior to admission or readmission.”
    • never mentioned or implied that it is illegal under NY State law for nursing homes to accept someone they cannot care for properly.
  • Cuomo then claimed that his order “followed President Trump’s CDC guidance,” but the truth is that this guidance:
    • doesn’t recommend putting C-19 patients into nursing homes.
    • states that C-19 patients “should go to a facility with adequate personal protective equipment supplies and an ability to adhere to infection prevention….”
  • Cuomo’s top aide, Melissa DeRosa later said that his policy was “in-line directly” with directives from the Trump administration’s Centers For Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), but to the contrary:
    • 12 days before Cuomo’s order, CMS warned that homes must be “vigilant in identifying any possible infected individuals” and “follow CDC guidance.”
    • CMS administrator Seema Verma directly responded to DeRosa’s claims, stating that the CMS was “clear and unmistakable” in stating that nursing homes should reject people that they cannot care for, and “any insinuation to the contrary is woefully mistaken at best and dishonest at worst.”
  • After that, Cuomo claimed that NY “had more people die” because the Trump administration “missed the boat and never told us that this virus was coming from Europe and not from China.” In reality, the Trump administration issued a near-total ban on travel from Europe on the same day that the World Health Organization declared C-19 a pandemic (March 11). Yet, Cuomo did not announce a stay-at-home order until more than a week later on March 20.
  • Finally, Cuomo’s Department of Health published a report that returned to blaming nursing homes while claiming that his policy was not a “significant factor” in fatalities. However, the report:
    • misinterprets association as causation by arguing that a “link between the timing of staff infection and nursing home fatalities” proves the nursing home staff transmitted the virus to residents.
    • uses a false measure of timing based on the number of homes with an infected staff member instead of the actual number of infected staff members.
    • uses grossly incomplete data that excludes residents who caught the virus in nursing homes but died “outside of the facility,” a figure that could number in the thousands.

So in the face of proven scientific facts and crystal clear guidance from federal health agencies, Cuomo forced C-19 carriers into the vicinity of the people who are most vulnerable to the virus.

Cuomo and his surrogates then used a series of falsehoods to cast blame for his policy on others. Now, he is impugning people who would hold him accountable for his actions.

Anna Lynn is a writer and researcher for Just Facts, a think tank dedicated to publishing rigorously documented facts about public policy issues. James D. Agresti is the president of Just Facts.

130 thoughts on “The Facts on Andrew Cuomo’s Nursing Home Policy

    • Why is this POS not on felony manslaughter charges ?

      Why did DoJ wait until now to “look into it” ? This happened 5-6 months ago. If this had been dealt with in a timely manner, he would be in court or in jail by now.

      Soon he will be self-congratulating on having reduced the cost of NH care in NY.

      • I enjoy bashing Cuomo as much as the next guy, but if we start criminalizing incompetent government policy, we’d have to lock up pretty much every bureaucrat and politician.

        • And your problem with that is???????? Voting some jackwagon out is not a punishment, 10 years in Federal Prison and forfeiture of all assets is. For Cuomo, who intentionally killed thousands of elderly people, to appropriate sentence would be life without parole and forfeiture of all assets. Take all his sh*t away, THAT will hurt him the most.

        • Steve – we wouldn’t lock up honest politicians.

          HA HA HA HA HA! You’re right! We would be locking up every one of them! After all, this country wasn’t supposed to be run by politicians and bureaucrats – it was supposed to be run by people with jobs, not leaches! How do all these politicians come out of office a magnitude of order richer than when they went in?

  1. Hmmm…seems like I remember there was a name for people like him. People who refuse to accept responsibility for things they do that harm others, and try and shift the blame to others and/or claim it never happened. What was that word?

    Oh yeah, sociopath, if not psychopath.

    • I thought manslaughter was the crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought. The problem is simply that we’re not sure there was no malice aforethought.

      • Since he wrote this plan out and signed it there is malice of forethought, was not just some random accident, it was planned, planned by Cuomo and his minions. The other leg of the stool is his open attacks against the NY Jewish community, third leg is the ongoing attack against his personal enemy Donald Trump using the Southern District of New York courts. Andrew The Insane thinks he can catapult himself into the Presidency through chicanery when he is not even in the line of succession for OoP.

      • Given they just shut down the director of ICE for saying the wall (fence) is helping (due to that comment somehow promoting violence), probably about as long as it takes for them to become aware of the link.

      • The only thing that will work is to boycott advertisers that buy ads on the GooFace Twits and Yahoos. ABC too.

  2. How ‘bout some mo’ data, yum-yum, data.

    Global, WHO.
    The US, India and Brazil together have more cases than the ENTIRE rest of the world combined.
    The top ten countries have over 70% of the cases.
    The US, Brazil, India and Mexico together have more Covid-19 deaths than the ENTIRE rest of the world combined.
    The top ten countries have 72% of the deaths.
    Seems to me more of a problem with crappy health care systems in a few countries and not a global pandemic.

    US, CDC.
    NYC and six states have accumulated more Covid-19 deaths than the ENTIRE rest of the country.
    The top 15 states have accumulated over 75% of the US deaths.
    The 75+ demographic has more deaths than the ENTIRE rest of the country combined.
    The 65+ demographic represents almost 80% of the deaths.
    The 55+ demographic represents over 90% of the Covid-19 deaths.
    Japan has the highest percentage of 65+ in the world, 27%, yet a little over 1,500 deaths.
    What do they know/do that the lying, fact free, fake news MSM does not consider newsworthy?

    Denver, Arapahoe and Jefferson counties represent more Covid-19 deaths than the ENTIRE rest of Colorado.
    The top ten Colorado counties represent 90% of the state’s Covid-19 deaths.

    Why should the entire state/country/world suffer for these (BLUE) health care **** holes?

    The data absolutely BELLOWS SCAM!!!!!!!-demic!!!!!

    Graphics and data tables are found here:

    https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nicholas-schroeder-55934820_covid-lyingmedia-data-activity-6719676294088552448-aPP-

    • I’ve been looking at stats online and was interested by countries w/high populations w/few COVID deaths (I wasn’t counting the number of people were were ill because there’s such a high recovery rate). A few things surprised me:

      Hong Kong has a population of 7.5 million, so social distancing is practically impossible, yet there have only been 105 deaths in that country due to Covid.

      Rwanda has 12.3 million people, only 35 deaths.

      Somalia has 15 million people, only 104 deaths.

      Chad has 15.5 million people, only 96 deaths

      Niger has 22 million people, only 69 deaths.

      Cambodia has 16 million people, 0 deaths

      Yemen, 28 million people, 0 deaths

      Syria, 17 million people, 275 deaths

      Burundi, 11 million people, 0 deaths

      Central African Republic, 4.6 million people, 0 deaths

      Singapore, 5.6 million people, 28 deaths

      Nepal, 28 million, 876 deaths

      Vietnam, 95.5 million, 35 deaths

      Malaysia, 31 million, 238 deaths

      Sierra Leona, 7.65 million, 74 deaths

      Senegal, 15.8 million, 322 deaths

      Taiwan, 24 million, 7 deaths

      Sri Lanka, 21 million, 19 deaths

      Nicaragua, 6.5 million, 156 deaths

      Haiti, 11 million, 232 deaths (a hurricane kills more people than the virus!)

      I know that some of these “death” figures may not be 100% accurate, but it’s the only info available on the Internet.

      Why the big gap? Why does the U.S. lead the world in cases and deaths? The majority of the populations of these countries are, on average, between 20-30 years of age. The young are not high-risk candidates.

      My guess is that the American lifestyle–eating crap, not exercising, sitting around all day–has weakened our immune systems and makes us vulnerable to viruses. The people of the countries I listed eat a healthy diet (mostly seafood, vegetables, rice & other healthy grains) or whatever they can get (as in Haiti, Chad, etc.), they’re outside most of the time, absorbing Vitamin D. The CDC said that the majority of people who develop COVID are lacking in Vitamin D-3, Vitamin C, Zinc and Gluathione.

      I agree that this is not a global pandemic or people would be dropping like flies in every country–and that’s not happening. Japan has a population of 126 million people, with only 1,700 deaths and has the highest percentage of citizens over 65 (28%) of any country. So why aren’t there more deaths? Has to be lifestyle.

      The MSM doesn’t point any of this out–it’s as though wearing masks and physical distancing will keep everyone safe. What about the countries with huge populations and few COVID deaths (and not everyone wears a mask). Once again, I believe it’s the lifestyle, which is so much healthier than ours.

      • In poor countries, most of the people who get sick are never recorded. They just get buried by the family and the government never knows.

      • “Why does the U.S. lead the world in cases and deaths?”

        The U.S. does the most testing so it stands to reason that the U.S. would find more infections.

        I believe you are incorrect about U.S. deaths. The U.S. death rate is one of the lowest in the world and that is because we are treating those infected more effectively.

        • POTUS said early on, and was derided, that the reason that the US had so many cases was that so many tests were being conducted. Now, the BBC trumpets (no pun intended) that the reason we in the UK are getting so many (false)positives (cases in woke-speak) is because we are testing so many people. No apology or acknowledgment just a ‘we are saying it so it must be true’ attitude. Our CNN! Not even useful idiots. Defund the BBC…

        • US is about #13 in death rate. Peru is #1 by a VERY wide margin. Spain and UK are ahead of US. “Leads the world in deaths” is flat out BS.

      • How many of those countries had plane loads of people entering from China and Europe, even after ban, citizens were allowed back after ban

      • Japan and Taiwan are treating Covid 19 early with an over the counter, cheap as chips, asthma drug with zinc and an antibiotic – as is a doctor in Texas who has had a 100% success rate. African nations would have cheap and easy access to hydroxychloroquine.

      • Looking for the one reason is a fallacy of concept. For starters, we’re comparing apples to oranges to battleships.

        One of the differences is our level of obsession with this disease, which seems to equal or surpass every other nation in the world. That’s all we’ve had to do for 8 months. Probably not so much obsession in Rwanda or, say, Japan.

        Then there is the world travel angle. And the mobility within the nation angle.

        And you can’t statistically evaluate a policy on this virus based on cases or on total deaths. But you can evaluate how many deaths occurred from nursing home infections while and shortly after (18 days) the self-evidently harmful order was in effect. Not even the posted article does that. And that number would be cause for prosecution.

      • There is a brief article on the site
        https://www.iceagenow.info/is-the-lockdown-really-helping-or-is-it-simply-prolonging-the-inevitable/
        that claims these numbers for total US deaths (all causes)
        2017 2,813,503
        2018 2,839,205
        2019 2,855,000
        2020 2,130,000 through the third quarter
        which were claimed to come from the CDC website but no links were provided.

        Possibly a more meaningful comparison, due to changing population numbers, would be the rate per 100,000 people
        2017 263.8/100,000
        2018 267.8/100,000

        I list only 2017 and 2018 because that is all I could find on the CDC website. The total deaths were the same as above.
        https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db355.htm
        https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/deaths.htm?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fnchs%2Fdeaths.htm

        I did find some limited , but incompatible, data for 2019 and first quarter 2020
        https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/mortality-dashboard.htm#

        Perhaps I just don’t know how to go about finding the data. It seems like there should be pretty good, if not final, data for 2019, and surely there are numbers accumulating for 2020.

        Can anyone else do better?

        If the article with the figures at the top of my post is correct, it appears that the trend for 2020 could mean lower total deaths in 2020 than in 2019. In light of the supposed virus crisis, is that reasonable? Are the COVID-19 deaths too few to even register in the pool of US deaths from all causes?

        • AndyHce:
          ..Can anyone else do better?..

          Let me try. Using your figures above: Annual deaths.
          1. 2018: total all causes…………………………………………..2,839,205.
          2. 2018: mortality per 100,000………..267.8 x 3,300* = 883,740.
          * 330.10^6 (US population 2020)
          3. Dividing US poulation by 78 (life expectancy) we get: 4,230,769.
          Go figure!?
          Looks like a GIGO to me.
          Cheers
          Mike

          • Yeah using those numbers the average life expectancy in the US is 150. Packing my bags and moving there right now!

    • Let me get this straight.
      If an infected person sneezes on you and come down with COVID-19, that’s the fault of the health care system?

  3. There is one word that best describes Cuomo: hypocrite

    Ignore what his critics say.
    Ignore what the mainstream media says.
    Ignore what his supporters say.

    Simply compare all he said, in context, over the past eight months, and see how often he contradicts himself. Someone who tells the truth does not need to keep changing his story.
    He does not have to try and remember which version he last used.
    It is much easier to be consistent. Not so a hypocrite.

  4. Politics 101 is the three misses — “misdirect, misrepresent, mislead”. And if that don’t work…lie.

    This shows politics to be the antithesis of honest science.

  5. Sometimes the power and sophistication of executive spin is obvious and disgusting. I’m sure there are overwhelming poll numbers in NY that support him too.

  6. This tragedy was clearly made worse by Gov. Cuomo’s policy. Janice Dean (The Weather Machine on Fox) lost both in-law parents in New York nursing home, and she has been on a campaign to hold the Governor accountable. Neither of the Cuomo brothers hold truth in high esteem.

  7. But according to Worral
    Escape from Wales? Britain’s Most Out of Control Covid-19 Lockdown
    Eric Worrall / 5 days ago October 24, 2020

    “I suspect if anyone in Britain finally gives the finger to the lockdown fascists, it will be the Welsh. One provocation too many will be all it takes.”

    I read this as
    Lockdown unnecessary
    therefore no problems with C19
    Therefore no problems with Nursing Homes.

    and echoing similar views from the same story
    Charles Higley October 25, 2020 at 7:13 am
    1756 deaths out of 3 million is a death rate of 0.06%. Yawn.
    STOP TESTING ALTOGETHER.
    FREE THE HOSTAGES (COUNTRIES).
    THE PCR TEST IS CRAP AND DESIGNED TO PRODUCE 85 TO 100% FALSE POSITIVES.
    A POSITIVE TEST FOES NOT MAKE YOU A CASE.
    MASKS ARE UNHEALTHY ON BOTH THE HEALTHY AND THE SICK.
    THESE ACTIONS COMPRISE CRIMINAL ACTS AGAINST THE PEOPLE, BEING CLEARLY POLITICAL.

    You all need to sing from the same sheet.

    Is C19 just fake news and nursing homes are fine accepting the C19 positives back
    Or
    Is C19 a virus worthy of action and nursing homes need lockdown?

      • So you are saying that C19 is a real and present threat to populations. (but mainly the over 70s) This does not agree with a lot on here.

        Their belief is that it is no worse than flu. You do not lock down nursing homes for flu (you do for legionnaires disease, norovirus, c19 etc)

        • The evidence speaks for itself, regardless of who believes it. It seems like you’re posting trollish nonsense just for the troll of it.

          That’s something I might do, but you’re not supposed to be my sort of addlepate.

        • “Their belief is that it is no worse than flu.”

          The death rate for the Wuhan virus is no worse than the flu, that’s true.

          But there is more to the Wuhan virus than just the death rate. The Wuhan virus is apparently causing a number of serious side effects to people after they have had the Wuhan virus, that are not caused by the regular flu. Serious inflammation problems that can affect numerous parts of the body.

          SARS-Cov-1, of the year 2003, was similar to the Wuhan virus, and it caused long-term serious health problems for many of the people who became infected with it. Some are still suffering all these years later.

          There is a simple fix for these long-term health effects from the Wuhan virus: Get the virus out of the body as soon as possible by treating the disease with medications as soon as a person tests positive.

          Currently, the standard of care is to tell a person to stay home and rest if they test positive and they are given no medications, which allows the virus to stay in the body for weeks instead of days, and even though a person doesn’t experience extreme illness, if the virus is allowed to run its course, there is a good chance that person is going to have side effects from the infection. Large percentages of people who have recovered from the Wuhan virus are showing inflammation in their bodies.

          We have medications now that can rid the body of the virus in about a week. This should be our goal. This way, we can go back to opening up the economy, confident that we can treat those who get infected, and if we treat them early, there is a good chance of lowering the number of people going into the hospitals and the number of people suffering from long-term health effects from the Wuhan virus.

          And for those whose hearts have been damaged by the Wuhan virus (or by other means) there is this, a way to repair the damaged hearth:

          https://uknow.uky.edu/uk-healthcare/uk-cardiologist-discovers-game-changer-therapy-heart-failure-patients

          The article above claims this is a new discovery but that is not the case. About three years ago, the Royal Heart Surgeon of Britain (I don’t recall his name, sadly), had about 15 men who had hearts that were in such bad shape that they all needed heart transplants. At the time, there were no transplants available, so the doctor decided to put them on a left vetricular heart pump as a way of easing the strain on their hearts by taking over some of the pumping of blood, and as a way of extending their lives long enough to get a heart transplant.

          The doctor gave these men drugs that were supposed to help the hearts heal, and these drugs normally could not be given to a patient because they would slow his heart down so much that he would die, but by using the heart pumps, they could simultaneously use these heart enhancing drugs.

          The doctor was in for a big surprise. It turns out that this application allowed these men’s hearts to heal themselves to the point that their hearts were as good as a healthy heart in an individual of a similar age. The doctor was able to remove the first heart pump after six months on one patient and had removed all the heart pumps from all the patients by the 18th month, and all of their hearts had repaired themselves to the point that the patients could resume their normal lives and had no need for a heart transplant.

          So the doctor mentioned in the link above was not the first one to try this technique, but she is doing good work and getting good results and this techinque of using a heart pump and drugs to allow the heart to heal itself looks like the wave of the future.

          I think the Cleveland Clinic might be doing something along these lines.

          • “serious side effects to people after they have had the Wuhan virus, that are not caused by the regular flu. Serious inflammation problems that can affect numerous parts of the body.” Since no naturally occurring flu strain does this just how did Chinese Disease get all these new effects? Seems no one is asking this very basic question.

    • “Is C19 just fake news and nursing homes are fine accepting the C19 positives back
      Or
      Is C19 a virus worthy of action and nursing homes need lockdown?

      That is a question for Cuomo. Why did he order That Covid patients Can be sent into nursing homes?

      Btw, I will never forgive you for telling people to drink bleach. Shame on you.

      • ghoulfont believes that like progressives, all conservatives believe what our leaders tell us to believe.

        The idea that conservatives disagree on the severity of C-19 is a concept to complex for his small mind to handle.

      • When you say “telling people to drink bleach” are you referring to Trump? If so, check the facts. The (Austin) Statesman fact-checked this and make a compelling case that Trump never said “drink bleach” it was Biden who invented that phrase and put it in Trump’s mouth. (https://www.statesman.com/news/20200713/fact-check-did-trump-tell-people-to-drink-bleach-to-kill-coronavirus). Here is what they say:
        “Biden said Trump said drinking bleach could help fight the coronavirus. Trump did not specifically recommend ingesting disinfectants, but he did express interest in exploring whether disinfectants could be applied to the site of a coronavirus infection inside the body, such as the lungs. We rate Biden’s claim Mostly False.”
        I’m a scientist, and I think it’s fair to say that Trump’s decision to “think out loud” was a) naïve scientific brainstorming (he did not use medical terminology well) and b) poor politics (because it gave bad talking-points to his opponents) but c) spoken with appropriate humility. If only he had saved those ideas for the privacy of the Oval Office, where (though not helpful) they would have been received in the right spirit.

        • I believe Trump had in mind the “infection” aspect of disinfectant. He was clearly talking about something perhaps that could be taken that wouldn’t harm the patient but would kill the virus. Was he a bit naive? Yes, but he didn’t suggest chlorox or lye or turpentine be used.

          Who knows, perhaps one day we will find a ‘medication’ that works like a disinfectant. If your brain hasn’t been paralyzed by rampant néomarxiste education, you might see something actually creative in Trump’s idea. Maybe a temporary elevation of bloodsugar, maybe milk of antimony that used to be used for a parasite in the blood.

        • Trump did not tell people to drink bleach but it was Ghalfrunt on this site who told readers to drink it.

          Shame On Ghalfrunt
          Shame

          • DERG You obviously did not understand my post. Perhaps you could get someone to explain.
            here is my post

            ghalfrunt April 27, 2020 at 3:32 am
            go for his uv inside and wash you insides with bleach. he cannot be wrong being potus!
            both these items work as you would expect on viruses outside the body. unfortunately one disrupts human Dan [DNA] and the other just kills inside the body.
            75% alcohol works against virus but should you replace 75% of blood with alcohol?
            ===

          • Do you not understand these words in my post?
            That is just sad

            “both these items work as you would expect on viruses outside the body. unfortunately one disrupts human Dan [DNA] and the other just kills inside the body.”

            i.e. Follow the potus and die. Is this a lie?

          • Why do you keep telling people to drink bleach? Trump never said it, you keep saying it. That is fairly sick of you.

    • No, correspondents here are free to express alternate views, as long as they substantiate them, or identify said comments as a rant. That is how freedom of speech works.

    • Your reading is nonsensical. Pandemic policy has never been a binary choice between extreme lockdowns and letting the virus run free in nursing homes. In fact, Cuomo’s policy resulted in infected and hospitalized seniors being returned to nursing homes *during* a lockdown.

      But there’s also no reason why we “all need to sing from the same sheet”. Enforcing a consensus of thought in the face of uncertainty is wrong-headed and dangerous, whether discussing Covid or climate.

    • “You all need to sing from the same sheet.”

      Skeptics don’t operate that way. Skeptics don’t seek to be one of the crowd. Just the opposite. If skeptics agree, it’s because the facts agree.

      • It’s now obvious that you need to get things under control as most other countries realise. The virus is real, it unfortunately transmits before symptoms appear. Suggest a way to control spread other than some form of lockdown.
        Of course the vaccine – promised by potus before november -will be the ossible answer but significant quantities will not be available until early 2021.

        • Once ghoulFont gets ahold of a good lie, he just can’t let go of it.

          Once again, unlike progressives, skeptics think for themselves. Just because one skeptic says something is not evidence that all skeptics agree.

          Reality is no friend of progressives, which is why they work so hard to avoid it.

          • “Reality is no friend of progressives, which is why they work so hard to avoid it.”

            That’s a good one! That ought to be put on a T-shirt. 🙂

  8. They’ve been ensuring the old and infirm die for months in the UK by sending covid positive patients back into the care homes – where PPE etc was in short supply.

    One could argue that this was entirely deliberate – part of the great thinning out.

    Nobody has or will be held to account.

    • Liverpool Protocol? I think that’s what it is called. The one where you sedate and starve to death those who are over a certain age, and in hospital or short term care for something that is totally treatable, so they will not be a drain on the medical system and on society in general.

      Eugenics is alive and well in the modern world it would seem.

      Regards

      Max P

      • You’re thinking of the Liverpool Pathway, now discredited.

        Some say having no insurance in the US is not much different. Although you do get to tour several hospitals before you die for want of a number.

        But this is different. This was a golden opportunity to slash costs.

  9. The unofficial US policy of discouraging/hindering early outpatient treatments is now official. The NIH just released official guidelines recommending no treatment until patients are on oxygen, i.e., experiencing serious illness. They literally want people to die. What next? Going after doctors that don’t follow these guidelines?

    WOW: Dr. Fauci’s NIH recommends against all forms of treatment in COVID-19 patients if they do not require supplemental oxygen.

    The new guidelines recommend to only treat a patient in the very late stages of the illness where mortality is the highest.

    https://twitter.com/drsimonegold/status/1319449925189398529

      • To be fair, doing nothing also works.

        The control group in most of the studies done on various treatment regimens perform almost as well (sometimes better) than the experimental group. Odds are the overwhelming majority of those 1900 Covid outpatients would have been just fine without any medical intervention. Many of the ‘treatments’ being offered are expensive (HCQ being the exception) and of somewhat dubious efficacy.

        The best ‘preventative treatment’ for Covid is to get your butt outdoors and absorb some Vitamin D and exercise to boost your immune system.

        • Funny how all of the patients who get early treatment and don’t progress to serious illness, would have gotten better anyways without doing anything, and somehow end up in outpatient settings getting early treatment, whereas virtually all of those who end up dying in hospitals didn’t do anything, i.e., get early treatment.

          • What natural law causes symptomatic people who don’t progress to serious illness, but would have gotten better anyways without early treatment, to gravitate towards places where they get early treatment, and causes those who do progress to serious illness and death to gravitate away from early treatment and towards hospitals that don’t offer the same early treatments?

    • “The NIH just released official guidelines recommending no treatment until patients are on oxygen, i.e., experiencing serious illness.”

      Wow! is right!

      Fauci and the NIH are ensuring the maximum Wuhan virus death rate and long-term illness rate with this directive. It’s just the opposite of what we should be doing, which is to treat each Wuhan virus patient as soon as they test positive.

      These people are crazy! One bad piece of advice after another.

  10. So you are saying that C19 is a real and present threat to populations. (but mainly the over 70s) This does not agree with a lot on here.

    Their belief is that it is no worse than flu. You do not lock down nursing homes for flu (you do for legionnaires disease, norovirus, c19 etc)

    • Some say it is serious. Some say it isn’t.

      Unlike progressives, conservatives are free to view the evidence and come to their own conclusions.

      Perhaps if you allowed yourself to think for yourself for once, you might be able to realize that.

    • In the US, 38,000 people die in traffic accidents every year. Thus if we closed all the roads and confiscated all cars, we could save 38,000 lives a year. The fact that we don’t do that implies an acceptance that life carries risk, people have to eat, no one lives forever, and life must go on ( . . . add more clichés here . . . ). Once you have come to terms with that hard fact, pandemic responses shift from being straight-out moral imperatives to cost-benefit decisions. Cost-benefit decisions require data. . . “what are the costs?” “how many person-years of life would we gain?” etc. That’s reality.
      Unfortunately the media tends to ignore the costs, perhaps because this generation can’t see past the end of the next YouTube video.

      • I dare say that part of the reason people in the media tend to ignore cost-benefit analysis is that a good portion of them are numerophobic, having shunned science and math courses for fluffier courses.

    • No question. Mechanical ventilation activates the same inflammatory pathways blamed on covid. Being on a ventilator is essentially a co-morbidity with lowered life expectancy.

    • Or perhaps this widespread ‘Masks work’ crap – that basically amounts to waving a cross at vampire.

      Would you do ANYTHING that was 99% ineffective?

      • Could you please expand on that? Are you saying there is evidence that masks are only 1% effective? I am asking because I was unaware. I have seen studies that say they are effective, to a degree much higher than 1%.

        • Masks are not perfect but they can inhibit the spread of the Wuhan virus.

          Of course, there are masks and then there are “masks”.

          In my area of the country, the Wuhan virus has had a surge in the number of people testing positive, and I think I might have stumbled onto the reason why.

          I went to a Funeral service earlier this week, and there were about 200 people there and only about 10 percent were wearing any mask at all, and only myself and one other person were wearing an N95-type mask. Most of the other masks were just one layer of cloth, so they don’t give much protection. But even a bad mask stops some of the spread.

          On top on not wearing masks, all the people at the service crowded into the pews shoulder-to-shoulder, no social distancing at all.

          So, I can see why the Wuhan virus might be spiking in this area.

          Wear your mask in public. Get an N95 mask.

        • Check the Sept 2020 article in Nature: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7
          talking about the effectiveness of “cloth masks” (vs medical masks) when worn by sick people: “We report on experiments assessing the efficacy of unvented KN95 respirators, vented N95 respirators, surgical masks, and homemade paper and cloth masks at reducing aerosol particle emission rates from breathing, speaking, and coughing by healthy individuals. Two key findings are that (i) the surgical masks, unvented KN95 respirators, and, likely, vented N95 respirators all substantially reduce the number of emitted particles, but that (ii) particle emission from homemade cloth masks—likely from shed fiber fragments—can substantially exceed emission when no mask is worn, a result that confounds assessment of their efficacy at blocking expiratory particle emission. Although no direct measurements of virus emission or infectivity were performed here, the results raise the possibility that shed fiber particulates from contaminated cotton masks might serve as sources of aerosolized fomites.”
          The British Medical Association ran tests of how well masks protect non-sick people
          https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577. They conclude cloth masks are almost useless:
          “Acronyms:
          CRI: Clinical respiratory illness
          ILI: Influenza-like illness
          RCT: Randomized Clinical Trials

          Results: The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.”

          • It is said that a person not wearing a mask can, by talking, or coughing, spread the virus from six to 12 feet into the air around them.

            From the quoted study: “but that (ii) particle emission from homemade cloth masks—likely from shed fiber fragments—can substantially exceed emission when no mask is worn,”

            That doesn’t make any sense to me. Hold you hand in front of your mouth and then blow air out of your mouth. You can feel the air on your hand. Now, put a mask on, any mask, and then blow on your hand. You will not feel air on your hand or you will feel less air on your hand.

            If you wear a mask, any mask, you are going to reduce the spread of the virus. You won’t stop the spread, but you will reduce the spread. And considering that there are a lot of asymptomatic people out there spreading the virus, everyone should wear a mask in public.

            Wear an N95-type mask where possible.

            The KN95 is a Chinese-tested product and probably made in China. Maybe all of them are made in China right now, but that’s going to change if Trump wins.

          • Tom Abbott, I agree – this does not seem to make sense. The BMA abstract, above, suggests the experimenters also were befuddled, calling it “a result that confounds assessment of their efficacy at blocking expiratory particle emission.” The only explanation they come up with is “the results raise the possibility that shed fiber particulates from contaminated cotton masks might serve as sources of aerosolized fomites…” which means “the cloth mask fibers break up big droplets into many more small droplets…”
            Remember, too, that these results are a critique of “Elmo Bandana masks” (ref 2hotel9) but imply that real hospital masks should be worn.

        • I was being a little bit hyperbolic at 99% – with all the shouting, I’m starting to speak in bumper stickers – but in practical purpose the difference in communicability of an aerosol virus is a few percent, and it’s very situational.

      • I use a Elmo bandana, that is how seriously I take their bullshyte. Started out using my N95s, switched out real quick, I need them for real uses while working.

      • Or perhaps this widespread ‘Masks work’ crap…

        Which has resulted in people treating masks as a magic talisman (as per your reference) – I’ve seen videos of a woman yelling at people for not wearing a mask, while hers wasn’t covering her nose. People wear them under their chins, stand in close groups, don’t care about hand sanitizing, muck with the masks constantly, etc. – but “wear a mask”.

        At this point, I think the mask mandates are actually making things worse, because they’ve caused people to completely forget all the other things that really do help.

        • Mask wearing is already causing outbreaks of other illnesses, many different respiratory ailments are aggravated by constantly covering the mouth and nose, and then there is the next strain of flu which will be “covered” by calling it covidblahblahblah. It is the f***king flu, get it, get over it, move on. If it is causing issues flu normally does not cause then that needs to be addressed. Who altered it to have these unnatural effects? Where did they alter it to have these unnatural effects?

    • Here’s the latest doctor admitting that ventilators caused much death, but in his own careful way, as they all do. In comparison, the German Society for Pneumology recommended early Oxygen and avoidance of ventilators back in March., and Germany had much less death.

      “Quite frankly, there were things that were tried early on in the pandemic that we weren’t sure whether they were beneficial,” Dr. Fritz Francois, the chief medical officer at Langone, said. In some cases, he added, they “might have caused harm.”
      For example, in the earliest days of the pandemic, hospitals in New York City tended to intubate patients early. Now, if possible, they avoid intubation, in which a mechanical ventilator breathes for a patient who is deeply sedated. Instead, doctors first attempt to give patients oxygen by less invasive means.

      Virus Hospitalizations Are Up in N.Y.C. But This Time, It’s Different
      https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/30/nyregion/new-york-city-coronavirus-hospitals.html

    • Did ventilators play a role in the high number of deaths?
      Yes. Definitely. In the mid-twentieth century, Negative Pressure Ventilators (NPVs)(aka Iron Lungs) were the state of the art for addressing exactly the same medical requirement as Positive Pressure Ventilators (PPVs). People lived for decades on Iron Lungs, because NPVs do not damage the patients. NPVs do not touch the lungs – they help the diaphragm suck air in. PPVs attack the lungs directly, blowing air in at high pressure.
      The problems with NPVs?
      – not available
      – take up more storage space that PPVs
      – doctors are not trained on them
      – do not control virus particles breathed out by the patient.
      None of these are problems for the patient – they are problems for the hospital. In a patient-centered medical system, there would be modern high-tech NPVs.

  11. Internet is forever. PDF on a thumb drive, a copy on disk. Wife has stopped complaining about how many of each I store various crap on. Wolff and Richard Levine did the same here in PA, got copies of their order, too.

  12. Cuomo is a POS. If he honestly stated that he didn’t know how disproportionately bad Covid is for nursing home patients I may be able to give him a minor pass. Italy had data though.

    He is a POS though.

  13. Perhaps he was too busy presenting himself on TV, lecturing the country and reminiscing, to protect the elderly.

    Worst excuse for executive incompetence and judgement I ever heard. To be fair, he admits he blindly followed an order anyone would know would cause massive death among the elderly.

    Listen to Democrats when they accuse others of wrong doing, it is almost always what they themselves have done and it is like a confession.

  14. This is Obama’s “healthcare” rationing in action.
    The entire rationale of the bill, as expressed by the President then, his budget director Peter Orszag, Orszag’s special advisor Ezekiel Emanuel, and others, was to cut health-care costs, which the Administration repeatedly and lyingly asserted was the cause of the fiscal problems of the United States, while they continued to pour trillions into the financial sector—a banking system which is yet again about to crash due to Obama’s failed policies.

    Where is Ez-kill Emanuel right now? The Special Advisory to the Director General of the World Health Organization.
    In other words Obamacare has moved to the WHO.
    Look up QALYs (so-called Quality-Adjusted Life Years) so valued and promoted by Peter Orszag, Ezekiel Emanuel to get an idea of what they mean.

    • They lie to cover what they actually do.
      In this case the lie is not worse than what they actually did.

  15. Covid and Climate Change are just ploys for the Global Reset, takeover of the world by the Satanic Death Cult. Those evil people who are behind the UN and the plethora of agencies that have been put in place. We are seeing the culmination happening.

    This was foretold in the Bible to be the last KING, the 8th King of whom the world rulers give their power to,, of Satans world before the showdown at Armageddon. It is also described as the Scarlet Colored Wild Beast.
    REV chapter 13 and 17 describes it.

    However its not the end of the world. Its the end of EVIL.
    God’s Kingdom by Christ Jesus will remove the wicked and restore the earth to paradise conditions, undo all the harm Satan has done to mankind.

    https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/scarlet-beast-of-revelation-17/
    https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/end-times-prophecy-sign
    https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/battle-of-armageddon/

    • What drugs you on you nutter?!

      I don’t want any jobies lecturing me online or offline or on my doorstep wearing those ridiculous suits and wannabe middle classes suits and silly ties.
      They get short shrift on my doorstep and even shorter online!

  16. Per WorldOmeter Data today:
    New York C19 Deaths/million =1729
    US C19 Deaths/million =707
    Sweden C19 Deaths/million = 587
    World C19 Deaths/million = 153

    Great job New York, A. Cuomo must be so proud.

  17. The following is a scenario. Its correspondence to what actually happened is a matter of speculation.

    A virus may have been genetically modified (try a search on the words: covid-19 genetically engineered) in Wuhan. It turned out to be especially deadly for the elderly, but with little impact on younger people.

    The effects of the virus could be beneficial to Communist China in terms of:
    1-dealing with the domestic bulge in the elderly population resulting from the previous one-child policy
    2-possibly damaging the US economy as a way to prevent the reelection of Donald Trump, who is creating problems for China’s geopolitical ambitions

    The virus got out into the local population. China shut down travel within its own country, but allowed it to continue to outside the country.

    On March 25, after lockdowns had already been imposed in a number of states including New York, governor Andrew Cuomo ordered nursing homes to accept patients with COVID-19. Although the order has been removed from the New York state health department website, it is still available at
    https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2020/03/doh_covid19-_nhadmissionsreadmissions_-032520.pdf

    The city and state of New York experienced fatality rates from COVID-19 much higher than in the rest of the US. Given New York’s status as a media center for the whole country, this resulted in a large amount of publicity as to the threat of the disease to other parts of the country. Table 2 in the following link shows that total deaths in New York City as of around May 29 from all causes were 232% of the average for the same period in 2017-2019, a much higher ratio than in any other state:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20200601140224/https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm

  18. “Leadership Lessons from the COVID-19 Pandemic” by Andrew Cuomo.

    A poker player would bet a book written on this subject by a guy stuffed with the amount of guilt this fellow is suffering under would be a whitewash and a pleading. The title itself is really an admission that leadership was lacking. Yes, you should learn something about leadership from the pandemic, but if you didn’t have any leadership to start with, then you were learning this skill by terminating other peoples’ lives.

    Touching on all the usual defenses for deflecting responsibility and thinning it out by spreading it around is a guilty man’s feckless strategy. If you insist on your blamelessness, then it makes a mockery of your book’s title. This is all about a panicked guy who was totally out of his depth as a leader. And it would appear that fellow Democrat leaders of other states and cities oddly share this rudderless fairweather style. The usual suspects were alarmingly helpless in dealing with the riots, looting, shootings, arson, vandalism… that has gone on for months.

    Two separate, huge crises with the same leaders’ heads in the sand shows something horribly wrong with what is perceived as the ‘calling’ of leadership by those who put their names forward AND those who vote for them. That they kissing babies and look good on TV is not a proper vetting for the job.

    • Leadership as taught by a guy ranting, raving and all over the map everyday, all the time. Video evidence galore.

  19. Why isn’t China having these continuing outbreaks of the Wuhan virus?

    I know they try to hide everything, but I don’t think they could hide a large outbreak.

    Maybe they perfected a vaccine before they turned the virus loose on the world. Or, maybe, they use theraputics like the HCQ treatment or numerous other drug combinations and treat early, and that holds down the spikes.

    China just doesn’t seem to be having the problems with the Wuhan virus that other nations are having.

  20. I would have liked more information on the 46 th ranking of nursing home deaths if NY is one of the leading states in total deaths. Sounds like a nearly impossible stat.

  21. Not only does Cuomo not accept responsibility for his death orders, he wants credit for having done a great job. While blaming other people (Trump) for the problems. While having his media brother on CNN praise him and deflect criticism, usually directing it at Trump and Florida’s Ron DeSantis.

    When the media is on your side, you can play these games and get away with it.

    • “When the media is on your side, you can play these games and get away with it.”

      That’s right. We are seeing it happen right before our eyes with Gov. Cuomo and with Joe Biden..

  22. When does he get the Nobel Prize in medicine? Send the female office staff to aid the Nobel committee in the nominations.

  23. He is a loser who is responsible for thousands of deaths ….God will be his judge…. gladIm not him

  24. Synopsis: Andrew Cuomo: “It’s not my fault nursing homes followed my orders, and people died.”

  25. Florida was aggressive against hospitals wanting customers to go back into nursing homes when no longer needing hospital level of care.

    IIRC Florida may have set up an interim facility for some people.

    But Florida was smeared by media and various politicians for its approach to SARS-CoV-2.

    (Unlike most fiefdoms, Florida acted early and assertively for care residences/nursing homes, because the understood the lesson from Italy.
    Among Florida’s actions was dealing first with facilities that were less than great on the last inspection.
    Florida health officials were smart and responsible.)

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