A new study, published this week in the journal Nature Climate Change, supports predictions that the Arctic could be free of sea ice by 2035.
BRITISH ANTARCTIC SURVEY
A new study, published this week in the journal Nature Climate Change, supports predictions that the Arctic could be free of sea ice by 2035.
High temperatures in the Arctic during the last interglacial – the warm period around 127,000 years ago – have puzzled scientists for decades. Now the UK Met Office’s Hadley Centre climate model has enabled an international team of researchers to compare Arctic sea ice conditions during the last interglacial with present day. Their findings are important for improving predictions of future sea ice change.
During spring and early summer, shallow pools of water form on the surface of Arctic sea-ice. These ‘melt ponds’ are important for how much sunlight is absorbed by the ice and how much is reflected back into space. The new Hadley Centre model is the UK’s most advanced physical representation of the Earth’s climate and a critical tool for climate research and incorporates sea-ice and melt ponds.
Using the model to look at Arctic sea ice during the last interglacial, the team concludes that the impact of intense springtime sunshine created many melt ponds, which played a crucial role in sea-ice melt. A simulation of the future using the same model indicates that the Arctic may become sea ice-free by 2035.
Joint lead author Dr Maria Vittoria Guarino, Earth System Modeller at British Antarctic Survey (BAS), says:
“High temperatures in the Arctic have puzzled scientists for decades. Unravelling this mystery was technically and scientifically challenging. For the first time, we can begin to see how the Arctic became sea ice-free during the last interglacial. The advances made in climate modelling means that we can create a more accurate simulation of the Earth’s past climate, which, in turn gives us greater confidence in model predictions for the future.”
Dr Louise Sime, the group head of the Palaeoclimate group and joint lead author at BAS, says:
“We know the Arctic is undergoing significant changes as our planet warms. By understanding what happened during Earth’s last warm period we are in a better position to understand what will happen in the future. The prospect of loss of sea-ice by 2035 should really be focussing all our minds on achieving a low-carbon world as soon as humanly feasible.”
Dr David Schroeder and Prof Danny Feltham from the University of Reading, who developed and co-led the implementation of the melt pond scheme in the climate model, say:
“This shows just how important sea-ice processes like melt ponds are in the Arctic, and why it is crucial that they are incorporated into climate models.”
###
The work is funded by NERC, grant number NE/P013279/1 and is part of the TiPES project, which has received funding from the European Union’s Horizon 2020 research and innovation programme https://www.tipes.dk/
Sea ice-free Arctic during the Last Interglacial supports fast future loss by Maria Vittoria Guarino, Louise Sime, David Schroeder, Irene Malmierca-Vallet, Erica Rosenblum, Mark Ringer, Jeff Ridley, Daniel Feltham, Cecilia Bitz, Eric Steig, Eric Wolff, Julienne Stroeve, Alistair Sellar is published in the journal Nature Climate Change: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-020-0865-2
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Thanks very much for the heads up Charles/Anthony,
What does the team think about melt pond coverage across the Arctic Ocean during the 2020 Arctic sea ice melting season?
Look at the arctic sea temperature if you really want to see the ice extent, anything 0 or below is still ice.
To be frank Bob, I’ll look at one or more of the numerous maps of Arctic sea ice concentration when I “really want to see the ice extent”. See for example the University of Bremen flavour:
“Using the model”
No actual data were harmed during the construction of this fantasy.
The difference between models and science is the same as the difference between science and science fiction.
My prediction is that climate alarmism will disappear (completely) 2026.
Then they will start alarming about something else. That is my second prediction.
And the west side highway will be underwater any day now.
Is griff going to take my bet?
What exactly is your bet? Sea ice area is already way below 4million sq km, today 3.35 million sq km.
Past evidence supports what is possible, not a plausible, or even probable, future.
Once again, people at a university who cannot get a real job are predicting the future, far enough out that they will never be called on it. No money back guarantee.
Why don’t they predict the stock market or bonds? Lots of fodder there.
They would lose their a$$e(t)$ predicting stocks and bonds. Much easier to suck money out of gullible fools and power-hungry governments.
Which got lost I think. £100 says that Arctic ice will bottom out above four million square kilometres in September as every year since 2007 save 2012. Less I pay. No takers this year so far.
er… shouldn’t you have paid out last year?
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3228.0;attach=278457;image
gives 3.96 million for 2019…
and if the 4 lowest years are 12, 19,, 16 and (very likely) 20, what does that say about the state of the ice? It is hardly ‘recovering’ is it?
The spirit of truth is not in you. Yet again you conveniently forget 2007.
NSDIC says 4.165 million sq km for 2016 and 4192 for 2019, both higher than 2007’s 4.155.
Please commit these NSDIC figures to memory (not that I trust NOAA):
2012: 3387
2007: 4155
2016: 4165
2019: 4192
2011: 4344
2015: 4433
2008: 4590
2010: 4615
2018: 4656
2017: 4665
2014: 5029
2013: 5054
2009: 5119
Please note that two of the lowest years happened after the record minimum in 2012, but so did two before it. The highest year since 2007 occurred before 2012, but the next two highest after it. Also observe that 2017 and 2018 are fourth and fifth highest since Arctic sea ice started bottoming out in 2007, and both are since the low of 2012.
The trend is sideways since 2007, with the lowest years all experiencing late summer Arctic cyclones, two in the case of 2016. IOW, weather events.
Thus, it appears that in September 2020, with a high degree of confidence, Arctic sea ice summer minimum should come in between 4.1 and 4.7 million sq km, same as for all but four of the past 13 years.
So, Griff, you’d be unwise to take the bet.
And three of those four were over 5.0 M sq km.
Which is also why he didn’t give the 2010-2020 decline average because it’s basically flat. You can see it clearly on any arctic sea ice graph. The ice declined from whatever to 2007 and then runs flat for 13 years. Same problem has happened to sea level rise, even since jason 3 has come online it’s a lot less than historic.
‘all but 4’… you don’t think that having 4 of the lowest years since 2011 shows the ice is not recovering and in a still declining state?
Please give me you view on the state of the ice: static, recovering, what?
Griff,
Please look at the actual numbers.
Since 2012 low, three years have been below the arithmetic mean since 2007 and four above it.
Before and including 2012, three were above this average and three below it.
The trend is flat since 2007 and up since 2012.
Griff
The bottoming of a trough, you know like a sin wave, almost all natural processes go through waning and waxing periods. its just the frequency and amplitude that changes over time to give us something fun to argue about. Its only the chicken little’s who think the sky is falling every time something goes through a transition that don’t understand that, you know the real science deniers like yourself.
Median: 4590 M sq km
Mean: 4493
This is liable to be an average year, with final figure, as noted, dependent upon weather later this month and early September.
NSIDC. Once a typo. Twice dyslexic.
Except 07 is one of the four. Which is 13 years ago in about a 40 year “ever” record, which started with a record high period as compared to the previous 40 years.
Take bet
“It is hardly ‘recovering’ is it?”
True, It has stopped recovering from the anomalous highest extent since the LIA. (1979)
Pity, isn’t it. !
Nowhere near down to the Holocene norm, is it, griff. !
Still very much on the HIGH side.
SO MUCH Arctic sea ice up there, one would think we were in a COLDER period compared to the last 10,000 years.
Come on, take the bet, then. Before it moves up to five million as the Arctic gets colder.
I’ll think about it…
Here are the expert odds…
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,3228.0.html
That poll is very funny, and they are no experts at all. They know nothing about the golden rule of forecasting.
So the last seven years the ASIE September daily minimum has been:
2013 4.81
2014 4.88
2015 4.26
2016 4.02
2017 4.47
2018 4.46
2019 3.96
Yet out of 67 votes the median vote is between 3.25 and 3.75 million km^2 and only four votes (6%) are between 4.00 and 4.50 million km^2 and none above 4.50.
That poll is actually measuring participant bias and someone should explain those supposed experts that what the sea ice does between April and July is not related to the September minimum.
The daily minimum is also a bad metric. The September monthly average or the lowest 30-day average are much better metrics.
You raise an interesting point Javier.
What’s your current best estimate for the 2020 “September monthly average” Arctic sea ice extent?
I don’t have a best estimate. I just think that the flat trend started in 2007 is going to continue one more year.
Must be sad for your Arctic sea ice forum over 12 years of Arctic sea ice going nowhere. Talk about futility. Like looking at grass growing, except that the grass actually grows.
So what would it take for you to modify your “flat trend since 2007” prediction?
A value that makes the trend since 2007 statistically different from zero at p<0.05.
No one predicts “ice free” in real life if they have to put their own money on it.
The definition of an expert is anyone who agrees with the alarmists.
I see you are confirming Coeur de Lion should have paid out last year!
Btw I follow charctic Interactive Sea Ice graph on the nsdic. org website where vexed 2019 bottomed at 4.192sq KM. Am I not wrong? Looking at it today there’s room for a bet still but I usually close about now as I don’t want to get a reputation for ripping off the punters.
OK so Chartic is a five day average, which is why it was above 4.00 in 2019.
Griff,
Are you still “thinking”, or have you once more skulked away after drive-by trolling?
This is really funny.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,80.0.html
Lol, 88% of them already proven absolutely wrong, the rest in due time. What a bunch of alarmists, and the funny thing is that they consider themselves experts on the matter. They are still making polls and moving the date forward, like this one in 2018:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2348.0.html
where 18% voted for an Arctic sea ice free in 2018-2019, and 89% by 2040.
What a bunch of losers. In 5 years (2013 to 2018) the date when >85% believe the Arctic will be ice free has moved 20 years into the future (2020 to 2040). They’ll predict 2100 by 2035.
I guess this speaks volumes about the harsh times for Giff and his ice alarmists buddies.
Perhaps you didn’t make it as far as my contribution to that thread Javier?
A slightly surreptitious recording of the experts’ opinions at The Economist’s Arctic Summit in 2013:
https://soundcloud.com/water-connects-us/ice-free-summer-arctic-numbers
Rear Admiral Jonathan White of the United States Navy and his alarmist buddies.
If you define the precise terms of the wager more clearly I’ll probably be happy to take the other side Richard (says he guessing!).
Are you talking the daily minimum or monthly average? NSIDC or JAXA? Area or extent? etc. etc.
Precisely the minimum on the graph at the date in September.
There are lots of “graphs” Richard! Based on some of your other comments you are presumably referring to the NSIDC’s Charctic graph?
Here’s the current version:
I went on record a month ago saying that the 2020 minimum will be “at best the second lowest minimum extent of the satellite era”, so shall we base our wager around:
NSIDC Charctic 2020 Arctic sea ice minimum extent below 4.115 million km²?
You still need to nominate a charity to receive my donation in the unlikely event that my prediction proves to be inaccurate!
P.S. How is one supposed to embed a .PNG image on here?
N.B. A minor typo *4.155 million km²*
Since nobody seems to know the answer to my question, here’s a little experiment:
Which seems to have failed miserably!
Back when Mark of ice-be-gone fame at CU Boulder made a splash about an ice free arctic, I called CU to ask why it didn’t happen when they said it would, since the open water year had come with the pesky ice still remaining. At the time, I believe it was either 2013 or 2015 (don’t quote me). Anyway, I was given a reference to a paper that declared that the models were in need of fine tuning and that they were working on “hind casting” to improve the prediction. Please, no one try to explain that process to me; I read the paper. And time marches on. Now that whole debacle has been forgotten by practically everybody, here we are still having fun with predictions of dubious fabrication, if I may say so. I still wonder about the “hind-cast-product” from time to time, but knowing full well what is usually cast from the hind, I’ll pass on that result and dispose of it along with this the most current “finding”.
Yeah the by 2050 happened only after 2013 was worse than 2012 when we were all told by next year.
You should see all the empty buildings at CU Boulder. Mark and all his coworkers are “working” from home and have been since early March.
This is a hind casting. 😀
Where do we go to collection the grants that funded useless research ?
The arctic melted naturally in the past?
Amazing…
A) Models do not represent REAL data – you cannot compare today with the past as modeled on a computer – all you are doing is comparing today against your ASSUMPTIONS about the past.
B) The loss of sea ice does NOT raise average ocean levels one iota.
C) If one accepts the Arctic has been ice free in the past, then one must accept that the ice melting in the Arctic is a NATURAL phenomenon and there is nothing unusual about it other than we get to watch.
D) If the Arctic ice melted in the past without man’s additional CO2, then one must accept that man’s additional CO2 is NOT the culprit.
but we have 41 years of actual and comparable data showing a continued decline – not just in annual extent, but in volume, age and thickness of ice, which is more important.
Nobody said this would raise sea levels…
We know why the artic was ice free the last time this occurred… orbital mechanics. But that cause is not in effect today… there’s another reason for low ice and it is obviously a warming planet… if the arctic melted for a reason in the past not now in operation, that is no reason at all why it can’t melt now because of human warming. Is it?
The Arctic was ice-free in Summer during the Holocene, 6-8500 years ago: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/252572926_Ice_free_Arctic_Ocean_an_Early_Holocene_analogue
You can’t even get the basic facts right, can you?
What human warming? No-one has ever produced definitive evidence of such a thing, apart from maybe UHI.
give the date Griff and take the bet
Has anyone bothered to look at the drop in the heat content anomaly for the West Barents Sea and West Spitsbergen Sea?
Same story every year for two decades:
2000: “First ice-free North Pole in 50m years”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/aug/20/arctic
2001: “The Arctic Ice Cap is Shrinking!”
http://www.arctic.uoguelph.ca/cpe/arcticnews/updates/icecap.htm
2002: “Arctic to lose all summer ice by 2100”
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3138-arctic-to-lose-all-summer-ice-by-2100/
2003: ” Arctic sea ice may be gone by the year 2100.”
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/ArcticIce
2004: “If this trend continues, summers in the Arctic could become ice-free by the end of the century.”
http://www.p1marinefoundation.com/news/P1Marine61249.ink
2005: ” in the near future (within 50-70 years) the Arctic Ocean will be ice free ”
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1029/2005EO360003
2006: “Arctic Ocean will have no ice in September by the year 2060”
https://earthdata.nasa.gov/learn/sensing-our-planet/arctic-sea-ice-on-the-wane-now-what
2007: “entirely free of sea ice sometime between 2050 and 2100”
https://www.nature.com/news/2007/070917/full/070917-3.html
2008: “the Arctic could be completely ice free in the summer by the 2030s”
https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/climate_law_institute/the_arctic_meltdown/index.html
2009: “Arctic could be free of summer sea ice by 2030”
https://nsidc.org/news/inthenews/arctic-could-be-free-summer-sea-ice-2030
2010: ” At the end of each summer in 30 years, the projections show that sea ice in the Arctic will be very thin or totally absent.”
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/featured-images/will-arctic-be-free-summer-sea-ice-30-years
2011: ” summer melt could lead to ice-free Arctic seas by 2016″
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-13002706
2012: “It is truly the case that it will be all gone by 2015”
https://skepticalscience.com/do-we-know-when-the-arctic-will-be-sea-ice-free.html
2013: “US Navy predicts summer ice free Arctic by 2016”
https://www.carbonbrief.org/could-arctic-summers-be-sea-ice-free-in-three-years-time
2014: “Expert predicts ice-free Arctic by 2020 as UN releases climate report”
https://www.adn.com/arctic/article/expert-predicts-ice-free-arctic-2020-same-day-un-releases-climate-report/2014/11/02/
2015: “an ice-free Arctic in September is “likely” before 2050″
https://www.vox.com/2015/3/19/8258799/arctic-sea-ice-record
2016: “free of sea ice this year or next ”
https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/arctic-could-become-ice-free-for-first-time-in-more-than-100000-years-claims-leading-scientist-a7065781.html
2017: “the disappearance of sea ice by the 2030s”
https://grist.org/article/arctic-sea-ice-could-be-a-thing-of-the-past-by-the-2030s/
2018: “ice in the Arctic has declined by a stunning 95 percent”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/energy-environment/2018/12/11/arctic-is-even-worse-shape-than-you-realize/
2019: “ice-free Septembers as early as 2026”
https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/arctic-sea-ice-melting-2044
Yeah its funny from 2000 to 2007 their linear line on there graph showed no ice by 2100, then 2007 happened and all the sudden there line showed 2020 or there about. Then 2012 hit and their line showed next year or 2 or 3 years at the latest, then came 2013 and they were back to 2100 and then came 2019 and we are back to 2050. Too funny just putting a slope to a graph and that’s what they call science. LMAO
‘Experts say’. An expert: someone who knows more and more about less and less until he knows nothing about everything 🧐🤣🤣.
Thank goodness the science is settled then.
I’m coming to the conclusion that arguments about carbon and temps are becoming pointless . IF you realize that achieving a low carbon world is so ridiculously easy and inexpensive if you admit an EV car world and a wor;ld of small modular molten salt nuclear reactors, which are safer than any power generation technology and have non of the claimed deficiencies of conventional nuclear. Just buildthe damn molten salt reactors and
put an end to the endless squabbling over carbon emissions – everyone can agree with this move to a clearly superior and cheaper power generation technology.
Green Meanies can agree to no such thing. They were anti-nuke in all its forms before the CACA Cult polluted politics, and will be after it.
modular and/or salt technology is a great step forward…
…when it arrives.
There isn’t any now and a working prototype is still years off.
don’t count your chickens before they’ve hatched
Says the man committed to the “well Proven” solar and wind power!!! LMAO
Ha ha ha! Back to this preposterous canard, again, huh?
So, have they found the fossil 127,000 BP model year GM Hummer yet ?
The Neanderthal Industrial Age was sadly too brief to have left much of a record.
I am unable to find words to express how sick I am of acting like climate models actually tell us anything factual.
the ‘claim’ is self-evidently true.
Sadly, deniers are playing Russia’s game; Russia is the clear winner in the disappearance of Arctic sea ice. As Russia sells access to Europe for goods from China, US industry is the loser due – in part – to transportation costs.
chris says :
“Sadly, deniers are playing Russia’s game”
———————-
What, MORE fake Russia collusion accusations?
Yes, I deny CO2 has anything but a miniscule effect on world climate.
Yes, I’ve been saying for a decade and a half that the Arctic of the last interglacial warm period was completely ice free at it’s peak, and after. Completely naturally of course, free of influence from either Neanderthal, or Sapien industrial activity.
Let’s say the Arctic becomes navigable (low to zero ice), before the next stage in a return to Ice Age temperatures manifest. The Canadian North is not going to stay Canadian. There would most certainly be a race by the major powers to claim / seize claim the northern coast and major coastal islands.
Anyone who starts a comment by using the phrase “denier” has already indicated that he knows nothing about science and only cares about insulting those who dare to not agree with him.
Beyond that, this post just shows how desperate chris is to change the subject, even if he has to embarrass himself to do it.
BTW, this disappearance of arctic sea ice exists only in your drug rattled imagination.
Just like Russian ice free shipping routes during the 1930’s?
Wow, so we need to end the use of carbon based energy, decrease the worlds populations, end capitalism, get rid of individualism and self reliance all because the Russians might profit from a little global warming.
But don’t you understand that this is great news!
Scientists say that the arctic was Ice free 127,000 years ago, and the polar bears survived!!
That is so awesome, i’ll go have a vegan latte now and celebrate 🎉.
PS,
( polar bears apparently evolved as a separate species between 350,000 and 6,000,000 years ago, at least according to polarbearsinternational.org. (maybe someone should narrow that down a bit))
That’s close enough for government work.
During the Eemian the earth’s orbit around the sun was more eccentric and its perihelion coincided with summer in the Northern Hemisphere (today it corresponds to the aphelion). During summer months, temperatures in the Arctic region were about 2-4 °C higher than today
That increase in summer insolation melted the ice.
I don’t understand how people can’t recognise that the conditions 127 to 106 thousand years ago are massively different from today and that we need to look at another reason why the ice is low today
If CO2 is well mixed, why did Arctic sea ice decline from 1979 to 2012, while Antarctic sea ice grew from 1979 to 2014?
How did CO2 grow Antarctic ice while diminishing Arctic ice?
The key Milankovitch cycle is axial tilt, which is always about the same during interglacials. Indeed the 41,000-year cycle causes them and interstadials.
A CNN reporter traveled back in time to 127,000 BP a year ago and interviewed Oog.
Oog was sitting by his campfire chipping away at a rock with another rock to make a cutting edge.
The reporter asked him why he was burning wood.
… adding CO2 to the already dangerously warming atmosphere.
Oog grunted quizzically.
Then, the reporter told Oog he was harming the planet.
( fill in your own ending )
Oog (in local Neanderthalish dialect): More warm, more better.
CNN: Ninety-seven percent of all Anatomically Modern Scientists say you’re wrong!
Oog: Oog right. Oog know. You skull small but has brain in it. (Bash!) Yum! Animal fat! Good.
Neanderthal family Oog hoping that Oog brings home another CNN reporter, although ideally one with more meat on its bones:
“CNN reporter”
Many are vegans… stringy, rancid and sour !
and the brain matter contains basically zero nutrients. !
The little Oogs eagerly look forward to another treat of eyeballs, firm on the outside and moist and juicy on the inside, while Mrs. Oog and Mama Oog anticipate the delectable marrow from the long bones of the thin, lightly built stranger.
Glad you’re enjoying it : )
Unfortunately, a childrens’ book on Neanderthal Family Oog is probably not going to sell.
John Tillman says:
Unfortunately, a childrens’ book on Neanderthal Family Oog is probably not going to sell.
—————————————
You’re wrong there John ….
Already have an order for 50 copies.
on Visa Card for one … Addams, Gomez
A “
Happy to be wrong, but how realistic is the book?
Do the Neanderthal kids eat their neighbors’ brains, bone marrow and eyeballs?
As even many Anatomically Modern Human hunter gatherer groups have done until recently?
Six million is out. That’s before even grizzlies. By a lot!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_bear#Evolution_and_taxonomy
The Brown bear (Ursus arctos) and Polar bear (Ursus maritimus) diverged less than 500 kya according to comparison of their genomes.
The balmy interval 121,000 to 125,000 BC probably enjoyed the best climate of the past 500,000 years, at least.
It was supposed to have been ice free in 2013 according to predictions in 2005-ish.
One study.
I’d stick with 2050
One tree was enough for Mann.
We know you have crystal balls. Cracked as soon as you saw the pay check.
A sell-out to the AGW meme, no self-worth whatsoever.
You do know current levels are far higher than for most of the last 10,000 years, don’t you.!
er… no: they are at the lowest for the last 10,000 years (since the arctic last refroze)
griff, an opinion is one thing, but stop polluting this site w/such fake “facts”.
There is strong evidence that the 1930s and 1940s were lower certainly comparable to today and 10,000 years ago there was most likely no ice all year round.
In 2050, Arctic ice should be on the way back down again after reaching its natural cyclic high c. 2040. But still higher than now, recovering from its cyclic trough.
It is going to climb for the next 20 years? That seems unlikely…
Take the bet
Hi Coeur,
You seem to be ignoring me? Perhaps that’s because I guessed your first name wrong? If so my apologies.
You seem to be gradually firming up the terms of our wager, which is all to the good! If you lose £100 goes to my chosen charity?
https://www.shelterbox.org/donate/
What’s yours?
Given his (presumably?) continuing silence regarding my proposed wager perhaps “Coeur de Lion” would be well advised to change his name by deed poll to “Coeur de Souris”?
Why?
Arctic sea ice naturally waxes and wanes in an approximately 60-year cycle, due to oceanic oscillations, ie the PDO and AMO.
In the 1940s, Arctic sea ice was low and the Siberian coast clear in summer. In the 1970s, the USSR needed a nuclear-powered icebreaker to keep its Northern Sea Route open. In this century, it opened again, but now some summers it’s closed. The cycle continues.
No noticeable CO2 effect. After WWII, CO2 grew but so did ice, until the PDO switch of 1977.
Griff,
Following its natural cycle, Arctic sea ice has been growing for eight years.
Do you still expect a new, lower low than 2012 soon?
During its natural downtrend, 1979-2012, Arctic sea ice summer minimum made a new record low at least every five years. Since 2012, not even close.
It absolutely has not!
show me some evidence!!
Griff
so you are saying that the sea ice over the last 8 years hasn’t been higher than 2012?
I’d take the bet, but ufortunately I won’t be around to pay out. Sorry, I meant collect.
Mosh the only reason you want 2050 is because of all people you know this is BS and by 2050 you won’t be around so you won’t have to defend people like Griff any more.
Come on you can finally come out of the closet and tell the truth, you know it.
“This shows just how important sea-ice processes like melt ponds are in the Arctic, and why it is crucial that they are incorporated into climate models.”
Heresy as everyone who’s anyone in the climate changing business knows the dooming is settled and you can’t have upstart interlopers plugging any old data into the computer models. The noive of these people!
” Using a model ” I stopped reading there. Don’t these enviroMENTAL loonies ever get tired of crying wolf?