Climate Wars: Try Removing the Word “Denier” from a Wikipedia Entry

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

A few days ago Dr. Willie Soon pointed out on the social media site Parler that it is impossible to remove the term “Denier” from the Wikipedia entry for Sallie Baliunas.

I should have stated more clearly the big problem in Wiki related to William Connolley; the tyrant at Wiki

None of us can correct for the entries calling us climate change deniers: start with Robert Carter and Sallie Baliunas.

Source: Parler / Willie Soon

Baliunas’ Wikipedia description contains the line “Baliunas is a denier in regard to there being a connection between CO2 rise and climate change, saying in a 2001 essay with Willie Soon …”

So I decided to perform an experiment. As a long standing if infrequent Wikipedia editor, I updated Sallie’s Wikipedia entry to read “Baliunas disputes there being a connection between CO2 rise and climate change, saying in a 2001 essay with Willie Soon …”, and added an explanation to Sallie’s talk page (a secondary page associated with all Wikipedia pages, where people can leave comments).

Removed the word “denier”

People who dispute the connection between climate change and CO2 find the word “denier” offensive, many climate skeptics believe “climate denier” is an attempt to link the concept of disputing the consensus to “holocaust denial”. Is it really necessary to use the term “denier”? By all means describe the views of other scientists of this position, but surely it does no harm to avoid using a term which the subject of the article might take to be a deliberate antagonism.

Wikipedia editor Hob Galding (Hob admits this is a pseudonym) changed the entry back the next day, and offered the following explanation.

They find it offensive? So what? I find their existence offensive, but I don’t expect them to do anything about it. They exist, I am offended, end of story. And they? People call them deniers, they are offended, end of story? No, they keep whining that people recognize them for what they are. They are still deniers. It is the correct term used for such people. It is the term used in reliable sources. —Hob Gadling (talk) 11:49, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

I responded with some examples demonstrating attempts to link disagreeing with the alleged climate consensus to holocaust denial.

Disappointed Hob. Is it the goal of Wikipedia to be deliberately provocative and offensive towards the subjects of Wikipedia posts, for the crime of holding an unfashionable scientific view? Is the penalty for having the wrong scientific theory to be smeared as being comparable to those who deny that NAZIs murdered millions of Jewish people? There are a number of examples of academics or prominent journalists comparing or linking the idea of “climate denial” to “Holocaust denial”:

“The deniers of climate change are cut from the same cloth as Holocaust deniers. They’ve never been to the death camps, Auschwitz and Birkenau, so what they haven’t seen does not exist. The global warming deniers—the Koch brothers, for example—see only what they want to see.”[1]

“Instead of dishonouring the deaths of six million in the past, climate deniers risk the lives of hundreds of millions in the future. Holocaust deniers are not responsible for the Holocaust, but climate deniers, if they were to succeed, would share responsibility for the enormous suffering caused by global warming.”[2]

“Almost everywhere, climate change denial now looks as stupid and as unacceptable as Holocaust denial.”[3]

Regardless of the original intent or meaning, the term “denier” in the context of “climate denial” has become inextricably associated with the NAZI holocaust, thanks to its use by prominent journalists and academics. Its use in Wikipedia, against victims who are powerless to remove this label, whose crime is to hold an unfashionable scientific viewpoint, is just a form of bullying. Eric Worrall (talk) 14:09, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

1.  Charles R. Larson, Professor Emeritus, Washington University

2. Clive Hamilton / Hamilton: Denying the coming climate holocaust

3. George Monbiot / Almost everywhere, climate change denial now looks as stupid and as unacceptable as Holocaust denial.

I obtained these quotes from a longer list published on WUWT in 2014.

Someone spoke up in support of my point;

On 20 January 2020 Wiki5537821 changed “skeptic” to “denier” without explanation in the edit summary. It would be nice to see one. The reference later in the paragraph to a 2002 article, which should be linked to here rather than the current dead link, says things like “that exceedingly small positive trend is probably not the result of human activities”, i.e. Ms Baliunas believed there is warming and “probably” is a skeptical remark not a denial. Hob Gadling has re-inserted “denier” without seeking consensus first, and so far doesn’t have it — although I’m not interested in the WP:LABEL aspect that Eric Worrall seems to be alluding to, I agree that the earlier wording was better. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 15:02, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

“Hob” provided the following response;

I don’t think “capitalismmagazine” is a reliable source for scientific subjects. —Hob Gadling (talk)

15:30, 12 July 2020 (UTC) Boo hoo, poor anti-science loons, being compared with anti-history loons. See here: the section “no neutral POV” is pretty much the same as sections in Talk pages about climate change deniers. Like identical twins!As I said, we say what reliable sources say, and they call it “denial”. Denialism is a thing, and climate change denial is a big part of it. Don’t blame Wikipedia for common usage. Wikipedia does not pander to fringe groups: we do not call evolution “just a theory” because creationists are offended if we don’t, and we do not claim acupuncture is science because quacks are offended if we don’t. Read WP:LUNATIC.Climate change denial is not just “unfashionable”. That is not how science works. It is indefensible. If you want to be treated like real scientists, behave like real scientists. Do not just steal e-mails, cherry-pick quotes, cherry-pick data, cherry-pick studies, cherry-pick scientists, accuse innocent scientists of fraud, harrass them with legal shenanigans, bribe politicians, and so on. All the despicable methods deniers use have earned them the word “denier”. Instead, do real research, without any dirty tricks, and publish it in bona-fide scientific journals. (Of course, this will not work, since you are wrong and the data are against you, but it would be the honest way to do it, the way that does not get you called “denier”.) —Hob Gadling (talk) 15:30, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Maybe this story will have a happy ending. The Wikipedia community might ultimately decide that “denier” (aka “holocaust denier”) is too loaded a term to use to describe a scientist who disagrees with their colleagues.

But as Hob explained, Wikipedia community guidelines have a backdoor clause which provides cover for those who enjoy using loaded language and revel in repeating academic insults. Under the rules, “Hob”, hiding behind the anonymity of a pseudonym, is allowed to use nasty pejorative terms in Wikipedia, providing a “reliable source” (as defined by the Wikipedia community) has already used such terms in public to attack the target of their slur;

BLPs [biographies of Living Persons] should be written responsibly, cautiously, and in a dispassionate tone, avoiding both understatement and overstatement. Articles should document in a non-partisan manner what reliable secondary sources have published about the subjects, and in some circumstances what the subjects have published about themselves. Summarize how actions and achievements are characterized by reliable sources without giving undue weight to recent events. Do not label people with contentious labelsloaded language, or terms that lack precision, unless a person is commonly described that way in reliable sources. Instead use clear, direct language and let facts alone do the talking. BLPs should not have trivia sections.

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons

Wikimedia Foundation (Wikipedia’s parent organisation) states “Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge.”.

However as Wikipedia co-founder Larry Sanger points out, one of the core policies designed to support this ideal, the policy of Neutral Point of View, died out a long time ago, and was replaced by “the utterly bankrupt canard” of avoiding “false balance” (h/t Charles).

Wikipedia Is Badly Biased

MAY 14, 2020|IN WIKIKNOWLEDGEINTERNET|BY LARRY SANGER

Wikipedia’s “NPOV” is dead.1 The original policy long since forgotten, Wikipedia no longer has an effective neutrality policy. There is a rewritten policy, but it endorses the utterly bankrupt canard that journalists should avoid what they call “false balance.”2 The notion that we should avoid “false balance” is directly contradictory to the original neutrality policy. As a result, even as journalists turn to opinion and activism, Wikipedia now touts controversial points of view on politics, religion, and science. Here are some examples from each of these subjects, which were easy to find, no hunting around. Many, many more could be given.

Read more: https://larrysanger.org/2020/05/wikipedia-is-badly-biased/

Wikipedia’s apparent betrayal of their founding ideal will likely be their downfall. As editors become bolder in venting their personal prejudices, under the guise of avoiding “false balance”, a growing number of Wikipedia’s target audience will become alienated by Wikipedia community’s intolerance.

“Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge.” – without the bullying and hate speech.

Update (EW) h/t Willie Soon – William Connolly has mentioned Sallie Baliunas in a post. His take appears to be that the use of the word “denier” to describe Baliunas was appropriate, once the reference was updated.

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Carl Friis-Hansen
July 13, 2020 1:44 am

Maybe the individual hiding behind “Hob” is a former Stasi official, who became unemployed after 1989 and loved his former occupation so much, that (s)he fell in love with the idea of using Wiki as the newborn Pravda.
But “Hob” is probably a Pravda-Denier, who would justify any attempt to let Wiki serve as a media for social political correctional facility.

In defense of Wiki I find it very useful, on some occasions, for information about subjects not yet turned political or of any interest to the Politburo.

I tried to be an editor in the Danish area of Wiki 13 years ago, but they did not like me, after they found my website klimabedrag.dk (Only genuine skeptical site at the time in Denmark).

Coeur de Lion
Reply to  Carl Friis-Hansen
July 13, 2020 12:44 pm

He has money in it

Izaak Walton
July 13, 2020 2:01 am

I am not sure what happened but at least as of now the word “denier” is not present on the wikipedia page.
So it would appear to be possible to change entries despite what is claimed here.

sycomputing
Reply to  Eric Worrall
July 13, 2020 7:32 am

Eric:

It’s now been changed to this:

“Baliunas and Soon became well known for climate change denial, and in 1977 she won the Petr Beckmann Award for her ‘devastating critique of the global warming hoax.'[15]”

Unless that was already there?

sycomputing
Reply to  Eric Worrall
July 13, 2020 2:10 pm

Well if I’m right, it appears the change occurred here:

Revision as of 11:58, 13 July 2020 (edit) (undo)
Dave souza (talk | contribs)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sallie_Baliunas&diff=prev&oldid=967466678

What say you?

July 13, 2020 2:15 am

Sallie Baliunas weather cooking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3CjSBCahBc&t=126s

– JPP

Carl Friis-Hansen
Reply to  Jon P Peterson
July 13, 2020 4:30 am

weather cooking

Googled the phrase:
‘site:wikipedia.org “weather cooking”‘

Result in DuckDuck:

Yellowish green apple. Acid flavour, likes cooler weather. Cooking Lord Lambourne agm: …

Conclusion:
Wiki does not like that phrase 🙂

GregB
Reply to  Jon P Peterson
July 13, 2020 6:09 am

A great intellect with a command of history.

July 13, 2020 2:27 am

Are Anti-vaxxers Immunity Deniers?

GregB
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
July 13, 2020 5:09 am

Yes – denial of fact.
Either that or they claim that side-effects are not worth the benefits – divergence of opinion.

TBeholder
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
July 13, 2020 5:37 am

That’s not on the list of Party-approved demagoguery. At least, not yet.

July 13, 2020 3:03 am

“I don’t think ‘capitalismmagazine’ is a reliable source for scientific subjects.
—Hob Gadling (talk) ”

Broke my ironyometer.

July 13, 2020 3:22 am

“None of us can correct for the entries calling us climate change deniers: start with Robert Carter and Sallie Baliunas.”

What is wrong with being called “climate change deniers”?

Juan Slayton
Reply to  chaamjamal
July 13, 2020 6:17 am

Chaamjamal,
Are you denying that the climate changes?

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  chaamjamal
July 13, 2020 6:21 pm

What is wrong?
Tell me what is right.
I am a questioner and nobody at CAGW has answered my question:

Show me ONE study that MEASURES warming caused by CO2.

Waiting, waiting,…………………………………..

ScienceABC123
July 13, 2020 3:31 am

“Hob” needs to grow up, but that can be said of many on the Left who think their “feelings” are facts.

GregB
Reply to  ScienceABC123
July 13, 2020 6:15 am

It conflates fact with opinion. You can’t deny opinion. You can disagree with it. But opinion cannot be denied.

Bruce Cobb
July 13, 2020 4:39 am

I’m a “climate change denier” in the same way that I’m a “tooth fairy denier”. Hobs and his Climate Liar brethren have subverted language to suit their needs.
“He who controls the language controls the masses”. –Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals.

Tom Johnson
July 13, 2020 4:46 am

The solution is to not allow the ‘offenders’ to offend you. Don’t give them the satisfaction. I am, indeed, a denier, AND DAM# PROUD OF IT.

Old.George
July 13, 2020 5:14 am

When the discussion is about the meaning of words the original topic is lost.
There is a spectrum even within the umbrella rubric “denier.”
1) One “denier” believes there is a coming ice age by 2043.
2) Another “denier” believes the weather changes over the last 60 year has been rising due to the Sun not mankind.
3) Another “denier” believes there is a conspiracy between the UN and grant writers to promote a political agenda to take over the world with socialism.
4) Yet another believes that the Sun will go micr-Nova soon and wipe out the sun-facing half the earth. If it happens to be the Pacific that is hit, a tidal waves wipes out all humanity from San Francisco to NYC. If China, that takes care of the China problem.
5) Another “denier” believes that the ongoing magnetic pole shift will change the ionosphere so drastically that high concentrations of UV — not stopped by the shift — will yield an extinction event through mutations.
6) Another believes that the current conjunction of planets (they _are_ mostly aligned) will yield catastrophe this year.
Karen, BLM, Antifa and their ilk are all about the cancel culture of objecting to words. So what if it is an offensive term. Brown people should stop use of “black” because I find it offensive? Trump should stop with the rhetorical exaggeration; I find it offensive. I find it offensive that a former president, Obama, is active in current politics and not acting like an elder statesman.

I deny some of the claims of the UN. I deny most of the claims of Greta. I deny the claims of AOC regarding CC. I deny the claims of Trump on a lot of non-climate-related claims. I deny the claims of Fauci in re pandemic.
It is a perfectly good word.
Can’t change Wiki? Who cares any more. Wiki went from joke to reliable because every statement was to be backed by referenced academic experts. And back to joke when they do not allow individuals to add their own opinions/thoughts to their own entry. (In a page about Old.George I should get to say: The above entry does not accurately reflect my opinions or views because .)
Wiki was fine before it considered “news” to be, well, news, and not propaganda.

MarkW
Reply to  Old.George
July 13, 2020 7:55 am

Speaking of AOC, yesterday she declared that the reason for the rising crime rate in NYC was because of hungry people stealing bread to feed their child. (Yes, she said child, not children. Let that sink in for a minute.)

Another, when asked what her city would look like once the police are defunded declared, “The suburbs”.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
July 13, 2020 10:34 am

MarkW
Progressives are definitely out of touch with reality. That is why they are progressives.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  MarkW
July 13, 2020 11:17 am

AOC is a denier of Reality, as are the other members of her radical political party, the Democrats.

Sheri
July 13, 2020 5:42 am

Instead of trying to erase the term, as the progressives do, embrace it. Call yourself “a denier of the lies and propaganda of the climate creeps”. Come up with your own fun slogans embracing denier and make it clear you deny the lies and schemes of those that hate humans and societies.

leowaj
July 13, 2020 6:18 am

I’ve always wondered if creating a new Wikipedia platform would be of any benefit. However, thinking about it a little more, I don’t think so. It would start off well, as Wikipedia did, then just get overrun with people with pitchforks, globalist enterprises, and authoritarian governments. Even if it could be constrained to just Western countries, it wouldn’t have much of an effect.

As this Hob person shows, the trolls will find their hovel and squat in it.

Earthling2
Reply to  leowaj
July 13, 2020 10:43 am

WUWT hasn’t, and can’t, because it is controlled by one person, including not for profit. The only way WUWT could be taken down is if Anthony gets Altimers or State Socialism/Marxism is implemented by a new Democrat sweep of all branches of Gov’t and then they could change start trying to change the Constitution, although that is a complicated process too, with the States having major input requiring 3/4 support from all states.

From Goofle…

“Currently, a proposed amendment must be passed by two-thirds of both houses of Congress, then ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the states.”

“The Constitution, then, spells out four paths for an amendment: Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state conventions (never used) Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state legislatures (never used) Proposal by Congress, ratification by state conventions (used once)

Alex
July 13, 2020 6:20 am

What is wrong with the word “denier”? He does deny the CO2 role in the warming.
He is a denier.
At the same time, a black person is a “n…” in many Latin languages
Yet, some find the term rather offensive…

MarkW
Reply to  Alex
July 13, 2020 7:58 am

Make that any country that speaks Spanish.
Unless the social justice warriors have gotten completely out of hand, type black, into any English to Spanish translator.

Roger Knights
Reply to  Alex
July 13, 2020 8:32 am

“What is wrong with the word “denier”? He does deny the CO2 role in the warming.”

That (disbelief) is its denotation (literal meaning). Its connotation (its suggestive aura or baggage) is of an irrational / dishonest refusal to see a plain but inconvenient truth. E.g., “He’s in denial about his alcoholism.” That’s what’s wrong with “denier.”

fred250
Reply to  Alex
July 13, 2020 1:17 pm

“the CO2 role in the warming.”

What role?

Its never been measured or observed anywhere in the Earth’s atmosphere.

Its like saying someone DENIES a Grimm Bros fairy tale..

Being called a “denier” because you don’t believe someone else’s fantasy..

NOPE. not accepting that.!!

Franklin
July 13, 2020 6:43 am

No one with an IQ over 60 should rely on Wikipedia. The unchecked arm of activists, Wikipedia has long since become a JOKE.

https://anonhq.com/beware-wikipedia-never-trust/

https://www.heartland.org/topics/infotech-telecom/Wikipedia/index.html

It belongs under the same scrutiny as Google, Twitter, and Facebook.

Ken
July 13, 2020 6:51 am

I have quit Scientific American, Discover, Time, Newsweek, etc. because they have all drunk deeply of the Hansen/Gore Koolaid. I am no scientist but have followed science my whole life. It does not take a genius to see clearly that politics has no place in science. “The science is settled” is utter denial of science.

I am now also off of Wikipedia. Also off of Google. I use DuckDuckGo instead. I still use Google Earth, but would use an alternative if I could find one.

The latest Amazon TV commercial touting their commitment to “renewable energy” has gotten me looking more at eBay and Walmart.

MarkW
Reply to  Ken
July 13, 2020 7:58 am

MapQuest isn’t bad.

Reply to  Ken
July 13, 2020 9:21 am

“Science News” was the first to go away for me way back in the ’80s. Even that far back it was getting infiltrated by marxist/regressive/dopacrapic writers.

Ken
July 13, 2020 6:59 am

have quit Scientific American, Discover, Time, Newsweek, etc. because they have all drunk deeply of the Hansen/Gore Koolaid. I am no scientist but have followed science my whole life. It does not take a genius to see clearly that politics has no place in science. “The science is settled” is utter denial of science.

I am now also off of Wikipedia. Also off of Google. I use DuckDuckGo instead. I still use Google Earth, but would use an alternative if I could find one.

Carl Friis-Hansen
Reply to  Ken
July 13, 2020 8:59 am

I use Open Street Map whenever adequate.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Ken
July 13, 2020 10:39 am
Paul
July 13, 2020 7:12 am

Calling someone a ‘denier’ is the easiest,dumbest way to attempt to get power over someone.
Similar to calling someone a ‘racist’ without any demonstrable reason except they are white.
Hob has issues methinks.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Paul
July 13, 2020 10:41 am

Paul
What is more racist than denigrating someone just because of the color of their skin, white.

Joel Snider
July 13, 2020 7:50 am

I’ve spent entire lunch hours changing ‘denier’ to ‘skeptic’ on the Wiki WATTS page. Takes less than five minutes for it to change back.

HD Hoese
July 13, 2020 8:01 am

Hob apparently doesn’t understand evolution either. “…we do not call evolution “just a theory.”” Evolution is a complex of facts, theories, very few principles, not helped by evolutionists calling it a fact, when it is made up of numerous ones. Predictability is limited, as they say, especially about the future. Would check them out, but cannot stand too much nonsense in one day. I taught it for over a decade, fascinating and too important to censor and not allow skepticism.

StarGrazzer
July 13, 2020 8:25 am

I used to be a regular Wikipedia editor, however the whole wiki admin team are biased to a certain view of the world (Alarmist in this subject), but someone at the top dictates that view, and still hide behind their T’s&C’s. Trouble is a lot of areas it a Work-In-Progress, but the admins must sometimes think there’s a ‘bible’ PoV; anyone can cherry-pick, but it depends if the tree or even the orchard is a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ one.
Do they have a list of good book sources and who has the right to edit that list?
There are areas I’m an expert in (not this Climate subject), clearly more so than the editors, and the books that are used to put a view forward a certain twisted view IMO, but unless you can quote a source in their ‘list’ it’s not always kept and very quickly reverted.
Some of my edits have stuck (for now).

July 13, 2020 8:25 am

Try to change the Ten Commandments for the Church.

Roger Knights
July 13, 2020 8:37 am

I’ve read that there is a tendency on Wikipedia for right-wing dictators to be given that name, but for leftist dictators to be called “leaders.”

Earthling2
Reply to  Roger Knights
July 13, 2020 2:28 pm

Wouldn’t a right-wing dictator enable the individual? That was what I thought the ‘Right’ was about, which is law abiding individual liberty. Don’t bother me and I won’t bother you. I suppose that may be more Libertarian, but that is individualist right wing.

Wikipedia gives a long list of right wing dictators, which includes Hitler and the fascists. But Nazi Germany was completely a leftist organization, even being the original greens, but in brown shirts. As are all military dictatorships, whether they are anticommunist or not. Maybe a benevolent military dictatorship, that empowers the individual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_dictatorship

A right-wing dictator is a contradiction of terms. I have heard DJT described as a right-wing dictator by some ignorant leftists, but of course he isn’t, which is demonstrated how he allowed the Governor’s to mostly handle the pandemic, as well as allow some of the blue states to self destruct with the Mob, although he gets the blame for everything. Perhaps someone can give me an example of a right-wing dictator. Can’t think of one dictator that isn’t a leftist. Other than myself who might be a right wing dictator…who rules over my kingdom of 1800 acres of forest land/lakefront with an iron fist. Actually, Caterpillar, if iron is involved.

Jerry
July 13, 2020 8:39 am

Use Infogalatic instead of Wikipedia.

JN
July 13, 2020 8:47 am

Infogalactic is fork of wiki
https://infogalactic.com/info/Main_Page

Reply to  JN
July 14, 2020 1:49 am

yup started by my old friend, vox day

John Endicott
Reply to  Steven Mosher
July 14, 2020 7:20 am

We won’t hold that against him. :p

TomRude
July 13, 2020 9:58 am

From my experience on the Leroux file, Connolley cannot edit on living persons, so he specialized on dead scientists and had his goons (Rabett) to do the dirty work elsewhere…

Reply to  TomRude
July 14, 2020 10:47 am

Don’t hear anything anymore from the Wascally Eli Wabbit. Prb’ly a good thing…..