Alex Epstein interviews Naomi Seibt on her fight against the German government

From Alex Epstein, host of Power Hour: On this week’s (6/17) episode of Power Hour I interview Naomi Seibt, the 19-year-old German teenager who has been called “the anti-Greta” for her articulate and outspoken challenges to climate catastrophism.

The focus of our discussion is the outrageous attempt of the German government to take down her videos challenging climate catastrophism and advocating what she calls “climate realism.”

Instead of trying to resolve the issue quietly, Naomi says “I’m going to go big this time. And I’m going to involve the press. I’m going to make this very public….people will see what’s going on and how they try to silence us. And I think that will make them question the issue a lot more.”

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June 21, 2020 2:52 pm

You go girl! With the absence of any popular climate realists maybe we’ll finally have someone to rally around that is outspoken, accurate, and believable.

Reply to  markl
June 21, 2020 5:51 pm

Naomi is completely impressive – articulate, reasonable, considerate; such a refreshing contrast to Gretchen!

Reply to  Richard
June 21, 2020 7:33 pm

Greta too.

Reply to  markl
June 22, 2020 3:34 am

“You go girl! With the absence of any popular climate realists maybe we’ll finally have someone to rally around that is outspoken, accurate, and believable”

weirdly skeptics forget the first time they enlisted a kid in the fight.

betcha don’t remember

Reply to  Steven Mosher
June 22, 2020 4:36 am

I don’t remember.
but I do have concerns about using some young persons social media status as a tool.
could easily turn into a double edged sword.

John Endicott
Reply to  Steven Mosher
June 22, 2020 7:01 am

Don’t be coy Mr Drive-by, do enlighten the masses. It’s always fascinating to see what warped perception you come up with compared with the reality.

Reply to  Steven Mosher
June 22, 2020 7:41 am

Wait this fight isn’t real Nick Stokes told us so.

Reply to  Steven Mosher
June 22, 2020 9:06 am

Steven Mosher: at age 19 she is not a ‘kid’. She is clearly an articulate and intelligent young woman not afraid to step forward and argue her point of view based on her researches.
Note that at the age of 20, Horation Nelson was given command of his first ship, the frigate HMS Hinchingbroke, on which he saw action against the Spanish – some ‘kid’!

Reply to  Steven Mosher
June 22, 2020 9:31 pm

“ponder the maunder”
But it didn’t last – boyfriend, I think.

Timo Soren
June 21, 2020 3:07 pm

To quote Tim Allen in Galaxy Quest

Never give up.
Never surrender!

Ian Magness
Reply to  Timo Soren
June 21, 2020 3:16 pm

Um, Timo, wasn’t that Churchill during WW2?
I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment though.

Reply to  Ian Magness
June 21, 2020 4:58 pm

We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender…

The scriptwriters obviously felt that it needed cut down just a tad for modern audiences.

Krudd Gillard of the Commondebt of Australia
Reply to  Writing Observer
June 22, 2020 12:18 am

What modern audiences? The ones trying to tear down his statue?

John Endicott
Reply to  Krudd Gillard of the Commondebt of Australia
June 22, 2020 6:54 am

Specifically the modern audiences of the turn of the century (the movie was released in 1999) not the modern audience of a couple decades later (2020) which are trying to tear down his statue.

June 21, 2020 3:34 pm

She also needs some monetary support from us.
Lord Monkton gave us a way to do this a short time ago.
I hope he can do it again or the way to do it can be given again by someone.
Easy to do via Paypal but I do not remember the details I followed.

Reply to  Charles Rotter
June 21, 2020 4:30 pm

But are they all viewable in the BRD?

Van Doren
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
June 22, 2020 4:55 pm

Yes, they are.

Michael Hammer
June 21, 2020 5:00 pm

What an incredibly intelligent rational person. She is a shining example of hope for the future. It sounds to me like her future is in politics and as I said, that gives me hope for the future.

Acquiescence by the majority is what allows tyranny to flourish and grow. Most salutary is that this sort of imposed group think is exactly what happened in Germany in the 1930’s and yet here we see the German government and German people doing the same thing again – plus of course many other governments and populations in other countries. Will we never learn, there are always groups with a social agenda and a desire for power and totalitarianism. If we want to remain free this is not a battle that can be won, it is a disease that we must always be on guard about, a social disease that must be continuously managed by diligence and rationality.

Hari Seldon
Reply to  Michael Hammer
June 21, 2020 8:26 pm

Dear Mr. Hammer,

Please, excuse me to correct your comment. What has happened during the last 12-13 years in Germany has practically nothing to do with the events of the 1930’s in Germany. Instead of we ccould see about the same development path like in the former East-Germany (and in other East-European contries under SOVIET (and NOT russian) occupation). The agenda is not really social but a hardcore communist one. The old slogan “Proletarians of all countries, unite” has been “modernized” to “Climate histerics and globalists of all countries, unite”. The main supporters of this agenda, the Greens in Germany have deep red communist roots. It should be also noted, that unfortunately Germany has not been an independent coutry: Germany has been practically a country occupied by the US, and the commands come from the US. So the current green agenda has been mainly initiated (and enforced) by the US dem leadership under Obama. A really independent Germany definitely would not follow the climate hysterie and globalist agenda.

Pat Frank
Reply to  Hari Seldon
June 21, 2020 9:44 pm

Hari, Angela Merkel took no orders from Obama. No one forced Germans to vote her in year after year.

And Germany took no orders from the US.

Don’t you try to blame their psychohistorical pathology on the US. It’s all theirs.

Hari Seldon
Reply to  Pat Frank
June 22, 2020 2:49 am

Dear Mr. Frank,

Thank you for your answer. “Took no orders from Obama/US”: Oh yes. Maybe you know the famous roman “The Pate” and “the offers which cannot be rejected”. Some of these “offers”are rather well known. For example the German Parliament (Bundestag) has decided not to store any nuclear warheads in Germany. What do you think, how many US nuclear warheads are stored currently in Germany? Another case: A. Merkel was worried that in Germany and the EU supporting globalism could lead to major challenges. Obama has recommended: Germany should take over the initiative in the EU on this field (the offer could not be rejected). And don’t forget, that Obama’s last meeting with a head of state was a meeting with A. Merkel. You can guess three times, why. We should be realistic (and not naive). Additionally we don’t know the secret agreements which led to the re-unification of Germany. I don’t blame anybody. However, you are right: US doesn’t take orders from Germany, only Germany will be “advised” by US (for example not to buy gas from Russia).

Eric Vieira
Reply to  Hari Seldon
June 22, 2020 5:43 am

I agree with Mr. Frank. You seem to ignore that A. Merkel was, at the time of the fall of the Berlin wall, a high ranked secretary of the East German FDJ (Freie deutsche Jugend =
Free German Youth) for Agitation and Propaganda. Under her leadership, the former conservative center right CDU party has mutated to a party with left wing values. It’s actual coalition partners are the left SPD and the Green party. The German government is slowly but surely evolving towards an increasingly totalitarian Marxist state, where censorship and persecution of undesired opinions is constantly increasing.

Gerry, England
Reply to  Hari Seldon
June 22, 2020 7:52 am

The USA has always been a supporter of the EU right from the beginning except for one shining example – take a bow Donald. The US administration prefers simplicity so instead of having to deal with lots of nations they would rather just deal with a United States of Europe. It would be no surprise that Obummer went straight to Merkel as Germany is regarded as the top nation in the EU and would get things done. Probably fair to say that this assumption is no more true than the dumb Tories who believe the likes of BMW, Daimler Benz and VAG will beat a path to Merkel’s door and demand a good trade deal for the UK so they can sell their cars and she would deliver it.

Michael Hammer
Reply to  Hari Seldon
June 21, 2020 11:48 pm

“Hari Seldon” Events in Germany were all about a “grossenwahnsinnig” dictator grabbing power. That he was able to do so was in no small part because the general population did not speak out loudly enough, forcefully enough and early enough to prevent it happening. Nothing unusual about that, there are plenty of other examples around the world. Why I refer to it is because the impact on Germany was severe and societal remorse over the event has traumatised and to some extent defined Germany for quite some time . However just because the resultant trauma was so severe, one might expect Germans to be particularly sensitive to such an event happening again. After all, the traumatic experience of hyperinflation in Germany has influenced German monetary policy for a long time.

This political mania over climate change is, at least in my view, a similar grab for power. What is to me significant with regard to Naomi is that now it is the government acting explicitly to suppress alternative points of view. Sure various media and private individuals have been doing it for ages but this is the government doing it by threats of state imposed fines or imprisonment just for exercising her right to respectfully express an alternative point of view. What is the next step, re-education camps for those who don’t toe the party line? It’s a whole new level and to do it so forcefully against a clearly respectful, rational and sincere 19 year old girl is really alarming. Its clearly premeditated intimidation. Naomi is absolutely right to make it a public case. The writing is on the wall; the window of opportunity to dissent, to stop this power grab is beginning to close. Of course not just in Germany, its an issue in all countries but Germany is the one with the most painful prior history. I would have hoped that would have made Germans more sensitive and more willing to speak out.

george Tetley
Reply to  Michael Hammer
June 22, 2020 1:55 am

In Germany all is VERBOTEN.

Michael Ozanne
Reply to  george Tetley
June 22, 2020 2:29 am

……that is not VORGESCHREIBEN

Hari Seldon
Reply to  Michael Hammer
June 22, 2020 3:08 am

Dear Mr. Hammer,

Thank you very much for your answer. I don’t have practical experiences concerning the era1930 (simply I am too young to have such practical experiences). However, I have practical experiences regarding East-Europe and the former East-Germany. I can only tell you, that there is a very strong correlation between the changes in the political situation in Germany/EU and Obama’s presidency (for example the support of migration, opening the borders, GND, globalism, etc.). The situation today in Germany reminds me strongly to the last years of the former East-Germany (“democratic socialism”). The same methods with the media outlets, in the science, etc. supressing alternative points of view. Even “democratic socialism” has became an official slogan for SPD. CDU/CSU were always very close to the rep’s in the US. Not any more: Today CDU/CSU eventually copy the dem’s. However this is only my subjective perception. It is very good, that young people like Naomi have recognized, that “democratic socialism” or similar experiences will end in total bankrupcy (both economically and socially). From my side I can only support Naomi: She has selected the right way.

Reply to  Hari Seldon
June 22, 2020 1:41 pm

Thank you Hari Sheldon-
WUWT dialog here is dominated by North American perceptions and prejudices, leavened by British views but with only a little from Down Under. Unlike Pierre Gosselin’s web site, No Trick Zone, we have few commenters from the continent of Europe.

The phenomenon of Germany, and how Merkel and her more Conservative party alliance has had to – the English term is acquiesce or compromise – with the Green Party to maintain coalition power, is a tactic that is is virtually unknown in the English speaking world.

Put differently, the compromises made in the Anglosphere about the environment on the Right comes partly from public perceptions, partly from respect of institutions, not from ideology or radical commitments

I think it is alien for us to imagine the radical Left agendas that chancellor Merkel has had to navigate or embrace, sort out or surrender, rooted in the seemingly benign task of the historic reunification project that has been Germany’s leading task since the Cold War ended.

But learning and understanding its warping cultural, political, and science-laden effects over the past three decades is very important to grasping today’s “Green Blob.” In this, we need shared, mutual understanding to counteract its corrupting powers.

I think you are very correct to observe the mutual admiration, and resulting imitation of German politics with Obama’s Democrat Party politicised media strategies as well as the reverse: “The same methods with the media outlets, in the science, etc. supressing alternative points of view. Even ‘democratic socialism’ has became an official slogan for SPD. CDU/CSU were always very close to the rep’s in the US. Not any more: Today CDU/CSU eventually copy the dem’s.”

Therefore, I welcome your critical thoughts, Hari. We need to know more. Our Anglophone ignorance is showing, I believe. This needs correcting.

Reply to  Hari Seldon
June 22, 2020 2:06 am

The Greens are watermelons, green outside, red inside and black seeds.

John Bruyn
Reply to  Krishna Gans
June 23, 2020 5:51 pm

I love it! Perhaps you could say dark seeds, as not to appear racist?
What about the white layer between the green and the red?

John Bruyn
Reply to  Hari Seldon
June 23, 2020 5:29 pm

What has happened is a takeover by and on behalf of computer modellers thinking that they are the only ones who understand what’s going on by believing in imperfect models that give the wrong outcomes. As history tells us, such people tend to lean to the left of politics. They have reasonably secure positions and operate with a herd mentality. By the time reality catches up with them they will have moved on to greener pastures. It is similar to a Ponzi scheme.
In climatology, this is clearly evident. It all started with WWII leading to setting up the UN with global political influence. People with other causes have latched on to that, including the WMO by setting up the IPCC in 1988 that is little short of a Ponzi scheme that has been corrupting politics with their semi-religious ideas seeking to scare electorates before elections to get the left of politics in power.
What many people have failed to or not wanted to realise is that an Earth-like planet spinning by itself in deep space would have uniform motion and its atmosphere frozen to the surface. This tells us that without the solar system we would not exist and that everything that happens on Earth comes courtesy of the energy and of the gravitational tides of the solar system. For lots more on that see my answers on Quora, e.g.

June 21, 2020 6:28 pm

She looks like from another planet , I just can’t pin point which one

Reply to  Eben
June 21, 2020 7:29 pm

Unofficially, the term for such women is ‘alien hot’. This comes from a tweet describing Julia Song, an American journalist.

John Bruyn
June 21, 2020 7:00 pm

It’s refreshing to see 19-year old Naomi and Alex having such mature views about climate change.
My work on astronomical causes of climate change and rising CO2 is somewhat novel by relying on NASA JP Horizons ephemerides.

With the hope that it may help Naomi’s case, if any knows how to get in touch with either or both of them please refer them to what I have said in my answers to:

Hopefully, it will help her case.

Al Miller
June 21, 2020 8:13 pm

We’re with you Naomi! Keep up the fight against these jackals

Patrick MJD
June 21, 2020 8:14 pm

If you put Naomi against Greta who would win? The one without a script?

Robert of Texas
June 21, 2020 8:52 pm

There really are intelligent young people out there…maybe there is hope.

Ian Coleman
June 21, 2020 9:29 pm

The difficulty with using very young spokespersons is that they are inevitably accused of being mouthpieces for adult Svengalis. I believe that Great and Naomi are both sincere, but I can’t believe that either is completely free of taint from adults with agendas. When I was a teenager, my first priority was pleasing my parents and teachers, and I tended to accept everything they said as not only factually accurate but morally sound. I might have got burned a bit by believing them too readily.

Reply to  Ian Coleman
June 22, 2020 2:02 am

As I remember my youth, it wasn’t a targent to please what adults ever. We were searching where the limits are and if we can pass over. That was at home and in school, there were a lot of demonstrstions around, students for their behalfs and scholars for theirs too.

Reply to  Ian Coleman
June 22, 2020 4:18 pm

“When I was a teenager, my first priority was pleasing my parents and teachers”

I would agree much more for Greta, who started at age 15 and was/is dependent upon her parents for her speech-writing and scheduling, and most likely, her acting/choreography lessons.

For 19 year old Naomi, not so much.

John Bruyn
Reply to  Ian Coleman
June 23, 2020 5:43 pm

The difference between Greta and Naomi is that, if I may put it that way, Greta has shown herself to be highly irrational, ill-informed, and not to understand what she is talking about, while Naomi is a highly intelligent person who entirely rational, well-informed, and fully understands what she talks about.

Flight Level
June 21, 2020 11:09 pm

Unusual for Germany events occur sporadically here and there.

The problem is that the green mafia realizes that the proportion of climate heretics rises beyond it’s control. And that our beloved Naomi can count on an ever increasing number of unsuspected supporters.

Carl Friis-Hansen
June 22, 2020 12:48 am

Naomi, thanks for all the good points, and thanks to Charles for presenting the interview.

One of the points that meant the most to me, was the point about “something to fight for”.
In the video Naomi clearly expressed a wish for people to be positive and fight intelligently to seek your way out of the sheep mentality.

June 22, 2020 1:29 am

The problem with the German government is it’s the same culture, they simply do nazi past their own propaganda.

… clever, true, not funny at all.

Alasdair Fairbairn
June 22, 2020 2:45 am

Sadly this is bit of a “David V Goliath “ situation. Greta has the backing of the UN and its acolytes whereas Naomi depends on Crowd funding and support. There are plenty of good round stones to arm her sling. We need to supply her with plenty of those and the resources to swing the sling.

Hari Seldon
Reply to  Alasdair Fairbairn
June 22, 2020 3:13 am

Dear Mr. Fairbairn,

Please, may I ask you: Who was the winner at the end of the day? David or Goliath?

Wolf at the door
Reply to  Alasdair Fairbairn
June 22, 2020 12:33 pm

Yes. If the world knew just how corrupt the UN organisation is…….

Henry Pool
June 22, 2020 3:02 am

Naomi Seibt has got it right!!
I am amazed that she actually realized that the initial measurements – and indeed all measurements since IPCC 2004/2007 , linking CO2 to an increase in glogal T
were really not measurements at all. They are all models……
They assumed from the beginning that the correlation of CO2 with temperature was causal. They never did any measurements.

Henry Pool
June 22, 2020 4:07 am

Naomi Seibt has got it right!!
I am amazed that she actually realized that the initial measurements – and indeed all measurements since IPCC 2004/2007 , linking CO2 to an increase in global T
were really not measurements at all. They are all models……
They assumed from the beginning (going back to Arrhenius) that the correlation of CO2 with temperature was causal. They never did any measurements.

June 22, 2020 6:09 am

I enjoyed this interview very much.
What I find encouraging and refreshing about Ms. Seibt is her willingness to question, think, and research.
Without doubt those of the young generation like her offer the biggest hope of returning scientific integrity to climate science.

June 22, 2020 6:27 am


June 22, 2020 7:04 am

Socialists always want to silence opposition they cannot win in open debate. Instead they threaten and attempt to ruin anyone who opposes their views. Great societies are not built on censorship. Dictatorships are.

June 22, 2020 1:52 pm

Naomi Seibt and the discussion that follows reminds me of an insight that law professor and libertarian Glenn Reynolds (blogging at, deploys in a different context, but no less relevant here:
We climate realists are like an Army of David’s fighting an institutionalised Goliath.

Our strengths and weaknesses flow in parallel from these examples. Including that we seek Truth, and they do not. Let not this important scientific value be underestimated. For Truth will out live lies.

June 22, 2020 2:22 pm

Eric Vieira posts the most essential point we Anglophones miss in the foregoing discussion. How post-reunified German politics has been throttled by Marxist Greens.

With Chancelor Merkel, “ the former conservative center right CDU party has mutated to a party with left wing values. It’s actual coalition partners are the left SPD and the Green party. The German government is slowly but surely evolving towards an increasingly totalitarian Marxist state, where censorship and persecution of undesired opinions is constantly increasing.” Hence, the rise of AfD, a persecuted new party on the right, Alternative for a Germany.

Thus, over the past decade, critical voices from the Right-side are not only shoved “outside” of traditional place close to power but actively persecuted and now prosecuted. Naomi’s prosecution comes in its wake. “Authorities” are used to suppressing dissident viewpoints.

Merkel’s henchmen have been leading Germany there.

The follow up of the UNs COP (“Conference Of the Parties”) event in Madrid (which replaced Santiago, Chile last Autumn), was supposed to take place in Glasgow in early December.

But if I recall correctly, the Covid-19 virus crisis has delayed this enormous circus for bureaucrats and AGW lobbyists, until December, 2022?

The Dutch based Clintel (“Climate Intelligence” Foundation) hopes to put on a genuine scientific debate to educate the world about the climate realist perspective in Glasgow. Facts are on our side; let’s debate them!

Let’s hope this succeeds. Please join and support this mission.

June 22, 2020 3:18 pm

I find myself in close agreement with Naomi Seibt. She is so fearless, too!

Another opener to try on the young and unaware is the notion that the early 20th century was likely warmer than we are today. (Both best measurements, albeit limited, and proxy measurements tell us this. But no one discusses this data.)

We need to promote re-thinking as an exercise in individualism. And Steve Job’s classic bumper sticker from the 1980s and 1990s to promote Apple computers is ripe for re-energising: Think Different.

Thus, “klimate krisis? THINK DIFFERENT” We need App and banner graphic versions of this new bumper sticker.

This simple juxtaposition suggests and re-enforces multiple messages: am I (really) thinking? is the implied starting point. But anyone can get to that happy place through re-thinking, reconsidering evidence, and beyond the power of lies that living inside the beacon of Truth telling and Truth-seeking gets one closer to. It is the power of the virtuous cycles generated from the values of self-reliance and self-respect.

Samuel Saunders McAllister
June 23, 2020 8:11 am

This was a great interview, the lady seems mature beyond her years.

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