Michael vs Michael: Mann attacks Moore as Russian Stooge.

187 thoughts on “Michael vs Michael: Mann attacks Moore as Russian Stooge.

  1. Michael Moore (gleefully rubbing his hands together): Bring it on!

    Mann just provided one MORE piece of evidence that he is not a very bright man. As IF this will hurt Moore. Publicity is publicity. (or maybe….. Mann is really a Russian agent who wants “clean energy” to fail….. 🤔)

    Re: “clean energy” (Mann in his little tweet or whatever above) — LOL.

      • Mann: repeat “clean energy” monotonously like a buddhist chant. Maybe that will make people forget that M.Moore just exposed how UNCLEAN ( ie pollution ) “clean”energy ( ie CO2 ) is.

        Maybe we can all suddenly forget that biomass means destroying massive areas of living forest to avoid digging up fossilised forest: ” dirty coal “.

        Maybe I’m just too old but when I was young being an enviro was all about saving trees, not destroying them.

        But maybe I should incline to “real” scientists who pretended he got non scientific peace prize for his part in misleading the world.

        Whether you like M. Moore or not it’s pretty clear which one of this pair has integrity and the balls to stick to what he believes and who is out to lie, cheat and deceive.

        • “Maybe I’m just too old but when I was young being an enviro was all about saving trees, not destroying them.”

          Coal meant also saving the trees AND avoiding nuclear power which was not clean but dangerous.

          That is how times change.

          • Except that nuclear was not dangerous outside of Communist Russia. And
            molten salt ractors are safer than any form of power generation, by far.

          • Not so, Col., and Ron. Second generation nuclear is by far the safest way to produce electricity in any significant quantity. It’s the only energy industry, and one of the very few industries in the world, which is comprehensively regulated.

          • I was actually referring to the swing in opinions that for some Greens nuclear power is now clean where it was not in the past but coal was preferable to avoid “nuclear disaster”. Without Fukushima that would be still way more emphasized.

            I do not have any educated opinion about how save nuclear power is or not and what to do with the garbage. Just never looked into it more deeply.

          • re: “I do not have any educated opinion about how save nuclear power is or not and what to do with the garbage. Just never looked into it more deeply.”

            And, of course, alternatives like the hydrino reactor by one Dr. Mills is a taboo (suppressed) topic in polite company, such as we have here on WUWT. Much more talk on this subject will bring out the ‘house fly’ MarkW too.

          • Blank Jim — You’re better than that. I enjoy your comments, usually, but, when you denigrate someone as well-informed and with as much integrity as regular commenter, MarkW, I must protest.

            He may disagree with you on that topic (and I have no idea what you are talking about there — I am definitely PRO-NUCLEAR POWER myself (reprocessing and, until that is okay, welded dry cannister storage and glass/salt cavern storage will suffice — not attempting to discuss this, just wanted to: 1) acknowledge the storage issue; and 2) affirm that it can be managed and, thus, nuclear power is a viable as well as EXCELLENT power source),

            but, his comment record on WUWT proves him to be a thoughtful, intelligent, well-worth-reading, contributor who does NOT deserve in the least to be called such a foul name as “house fly.”

          • @ColMosby
            Molten salt reactors are certainly safe, because there isn’t a single one anywhere on the planet. There have only ever been two, both experimental, and neither put a Watt into the grid.

            I’m a nuke fan, maybe these are somewhere in the future, but I’m beginning to wonder why you keep pushing this powerpoint technology as though we just need to pull them off the shelf.

            Unless I’m wrong and you can link to a working one, please? Even a prototype?

        • “Maybe I’m just too old but when I was young being an enviro was all about saving trees, not destroying them. ” Do you live in a wood home with wood furniture and paper products? Then you are guilty of destroying trees! If you like wood products- trees must be harvested and for good forest mgt. some very defective trees that have no market must also be harvested- in some regions, the only potential market is for biomass. Foresters and loggers are enviros too- whether you can grasp that nor not. We like nice forests that are nicely managed. And we also like national parks and other landscapes that are NOT managed. This is the one topic the Moore movie got wrong. There are lunatics out there preaching how evil biomass is. They are wrong.

      • Eating their own – so to speak.

        Facts don’t care about your filling Mr.Mann – resorting to the “Russian” excuse shows your inability to transparently defend your position.

        • They are not eating their own. They are on the same team. Don’t kid yourselves for a second that the enviro crowd is splitting apart. They are just moving to phase 2, the acknowledgement that energy consumption must just be cut by 80-90% and we must accept the devastation to our economy, lifestyle, and life as a result.

          Don’t be fooled.

          • They are split. This is not an act. People like Mann are trying to push some insane low density energy system that involves burning down living forests and strip mining vast areas for the raw materials to do it with. Moore is saying in effect, the cure is worse than the disease. If Moore succeeds, if he can convince enough environmentalists to turn away from this madness, he will have reset the debate.

            The next question is how do we want to live? Do we want to live a 1950s lifestyle, nobody travels anywhere, consumers only occasionally buying a new radio or spade? (I’m talking 1950s UK, not US, which was very different). When put in those terms, there is only one solution, whether people like it or not: nuclear.

          • VC, You’ve been fooled, don’t be. Moore is NOT trying to reset the debate, he is advancing it. They want to cut energy production and energy demand, you will not be driving, flying, heating your house, etc,etc.

          • re: ” Moore is NOT trying to reset the debate, he is advancing it. They want to cut energy production and energy demand, you will not be driving, flying, heating your house, etc,etc.”

            His objective, although not stated is “To Serve Man“.

            It may be ‘a cookbook’ for all I know …

          • I don’t get why people are pushing nuclear. Is it cheaper than Coal? Surely if it was then China wouldn’t be building coal power stations both in China and elsewhere.

          • Economics of Nuclear Reactor plant, vs a nat gas plant in this case (nat gas may be priced competitive to coal given what is required of coal plants today):

          • I don’t get why people are pushing nuclear. Is it cheaper than Coal?

            It’s much, much cleaner than unregulated “not clean” coal. It might even be cheaper than highly regulated “clean” coal in certain circumstances (I haven’t run the numbers, so can’t say for certain).

            Surely if it was then China wouldn’t be building coal power stations both in China and elsewhere.

            Look at the pollution (I mean real pollution, not CO2) China’s coal plants produce. China’s coal fleet is not the highly regulated (and relatively more expensive) “clean” coal. So yes, they’re dirt cheap energy, but the real price is the high level of real pollution they emit.

            so for those saving the environment/planet (or even though who just want clean air to breath) Nuclear is the better option, even if it might be more “expensive” strictly on building/operating costs.

    • Yes, it seems Mann is most likely a Russian agent or Chinese agent- or both.
      Russian might too poor to appeal to Mann desires.

    • Janice – more likely to generate a “Streisand Effect”.
      For me, the sadest part of the movie was the part with the Oran Utang.

      • Yes, Walt D., I agree.

        And, oh, Walt. 😢 As soon as I heard the sound of that chainsaw (in the first few frames of the orangutan holding its baby), I quit watching. I knew.

        And, just now, to be sure I knew what you meant, I went back to the movie and for the first time saw the orangutan struggling through the mud… . Oh, that hurt my heart so much…

        It did not, nevertheless, persuade me that humans, per se, are too numerous or too “materialistic.” Humans can love and care for orangutans AND responsibly use natural resources.

        (Note: whales are NOT “natural resources” — slaughtering them by spearing them and dragging them around until they die is monstrously cruel and completely unjustified by any need. It is as ev!l as cutting down a tree with an orangutan in it or, spearing an orangutan and dragging it through the jungle until it bled to death.)

      • Walt! Oh, wow. I am over 50 years old and I have been mispronouncing “orangutan” ALL MY LIFE! I thought it was “uh-rang-uh-TANG!” Unbelievable. (But, true!) Probably have been spelling it wrong most of the time, too. I’m going to blame it on Tang. We drank a lot of that when I was little (the Gemini IV astronauts drank it — “with a full day’s supply of Vitamin C!” — one weird thing about that 1983 TV ad (just listened to it on youtube for fun), the narrator pronounces orange, ah-ruhnge. Shrug. I suppose that guy pronounced “Ode to Joy” “Odd to Joy.” lol)

  2. The Russians?!?

    What is it with the commies and their obsession with Russia? Is Russia an enemy of the USA, yep. Is Russia the bogeyman, nope. The commies are in Lalaland.

    • No, Russia is not legitimately an enemy of the U.S.

      The U.S. is however legitimately an enemy of Russia.

      • Robert

        “…No, Russia is not legitimately an enemy of the U.S….”

        You seem to have conveniently overlooked a few thousand nuclear weapons.

        I would, however, agree China is the more strategic threat.

        • Yes, of the West’s four major opponents in a de facto alliance, Iran, North Korea, Russia and Red China, the latter is the Main Adversary (Glavny Protivnik), as the Soviets used to call the US.

          When, in the 2012 presidential debates, Romney identified Russia as the main opponent, he was wrong.

      • You’ve got that backward. The US offered Russia under Yeltsin to join NATO. Yeltsin enjoyed visiting the US, walking the streets of DC at night in his pajamas, drunk and looking for pizza. Aside from disagreement re. Serbia, the two countries got along after the collapse of the mass murderous Soviet regime.

        But Putin’s stock in trade is Russian nationalism, so he needs the US as an enemy. States threatened by an expansionist neo-Russian Empire did join NATO. Maybe a mistake to let them in, but they have good reason to seek protection.

        • John Tillman
          May 5, 2020 at 4:22 pm

          But thanks to Oboomer, Russia was forced to respond and invade a part of Ukraine,
          and kicked out of G8.

          And thanks to the ideology of “place too crowded and too many around”, an organization like
          WHO and the bureaucratic administrative structure of UN and +++ have ended up declaring war to China,
          after putting the entire world for a while in house arrest and having it subject to economical depression.
          Something definitely Russia cannot be blamed for.

          Russia and China, whatever you think about them,
          are clearly the only countries that show
          they have no interest and no urge whatsoever for world economical depression or world depopulation.
          Actually they stand as firm obstacles to such as, thus very aggressively and deviously vilified
          continuously these days in world arena.

          Well that how it reads in my book.
          Welcomed to rejected.


          • I suppose in your book, whiten, China’s one-child policy and forced abortions did NOTHING to reduce the world’s population, and allowing infected people in Wuhan to travel anywhere in the world EXCEPT other places in China did nothing to cause the pandemic and resulting economic depression the world is currently experiencing. Are you blind or do you just prefer to walk around with your eyes closed?

      • The Russians fly bombers up to the edge of US air defenses to show us how much they love us.

        Russia is, and has always been a hostile imperialist power. Hostis Humani Generis, Just ask the Chechens, or the Georgians, or the Ukrainians.

        • “The Russians fly bombers up to the edge of US air defenses to show us how much they love us.”
          A little fun quiz for you.
          During the Cold War both sides engaged in this type of activity.
          After the Soviet collapse in 1990 the Russians had to stop their threatening flights because they were broke.
          However in 2012 a Putin reinvigorated Russia resumed their flights after an over 20 year break.

          Now for the fun quiz question!!!
          What year did the US resume its flights?

          The answer is the US never resumed their flights.
          Well actually it’s a trick question because they never stopped their flight threatening Russian air defences during the 20+ years the Russians stopped theirs. So the real question should be – who is threatening who and who is the imperialist power?

      • have to agree on that,
        nasty russians putting their country right near all the usa/nato misiles pointing that way not to iran etc
        tsk tsk

        as for the mannikin, reckon moore can sort that lil turd out

    • Commies hate Russia because Russia kicked out the commies.

      Also, because while Putin is a traditionalist and nationalist. He doesn’t want what the left are pushing.

      It’s the same reason they’ve started to attack Xi, after spending years trying to cozy-up to him. He refused to take the ticket and sell out to the globalist left.

      Neither of them are nice guys. But they’re better for their people than many of the alternatives, and therefore the globalists want to destroy them.

      • Putin and Xi are terrible for their subject peoples, but they’re great at playing the nationalist schtick.

        Putin has plundered Russia to the tune of at least $200 billion USD, squirreled away in Panama, the Caymans and Switzerland. He’s the richest robber in the world.

        Without his nationalist grandstanding, Russia wouldn’t be sanctioned and could benefit from joining the world trading nations as a law-abiding partner rather than pirate, as with his fellow bandit Xi, whi at least managed to build a mercantile economy on debt and theft.

        • thats funny
          how much you reckon bush clintons and others squirrelled away?
          I see oh bummer prebooked a heap of holidays you folks nearly paid for on the sly
          clinton foundation moved it books to canada to avoid FOI requests etc etc
          if Putin wasnt where he is I doubt things wouldbe as stable and polite as they are
          you dont have to like him or russia
          but credit to his ability to manage so many states and peoples and do it very well
          American friend been living there for many years says its way better than back home for health food and general safety and living standards.
          he wont return to usa, if he leaves russia hed be finding anywhere else but usa to live.
          I dont see he has reason to lie, and hes ex usa services btw

        • Have you got a link to that?

          Listen, seriously, hundreds have searched for Putin’s treasure. They search high and they search low, but nobody has yet found it. Remember that leak about the Cayman islands? All sorts of unsavoury characters had money squirreled away, but one character was missing: Putin. Funny that. And isn’t it also strange that it’s all hidden, that he doesn’t even treat himself to the odd yacht or palace? So what’s he going to do with it all after he’s dead?

          I’ll file that under David Icke type conspiracy theories.

          • ” Vincent Causey
            May 6, 2020 at 4:36 am

            Have you got a link to that?

            Listen, seriously, hundreds have searched for Putin’s treasure. They search high and they search low, but nobody has yet found it. Remember that leak about the Cayman islands? All sorts of unsavoury characters had money squirreled away, but one character was missing: Putin. Funny that. And isn’t it also strange that it’s all hidden, that he doesn’t even treat himself to the odd yacht or palace? So what’s he going to do with it all after he’s dead?”

            Vincent – don’t you know his wealth (all 600 Trillion dollars (go on – disprove it!) is secreted at the bottom of the oceans. The reason it hasn’t been stolen is that it’s hidden by all the heat from the CO2!

          • Now, now, Vincent, there’s no proof the lizard people are involved with Putin’s treasure. or that Putin himself is one of the lizard people 😉

    • If you are looking for the enemies of the United States, you do not need to look outside the United States.

      Same goes for any western nation.

    • Russia has it’s own self interests and it has the interests of its leader for power. If Putin had his country’s interest in mind he would seek greater economic alliance with Europe and the West. That’s difficult while remaining undemocratic. Russia should stop pretending it is a major power.

    • Michael Moore has more biomass. If we could put a tap on him, he could supply some btu’s to run a fat to energy plant. Now there is an idea for green energy…

    • they are both tossers (at least thats the phrase in my country)

      I give it to Mann by a long way. You dont see Moore behaving like Mann in the media and in the legal system.

      • Yea, but have you ever watched M Moore elbowing his way thru the buffet line?

    • When it was necessary to slay the Medieval Warm Period, Dr. Mann stepped up and did the job. He has been richly rewarded. I’m not even convinced he believes his own crap. Anyway, it’s the best science money can buy, or something like that.

      Michael Moore produces this work that he has to know will be a hard sell. It could even be a career wrecker. He releases it anyway because, apparently, he believes in what he’s found.

      You may not like what Michael Moore stands for but, as far as I can tell, he puts his money where his mouth is, even if it costs him dearly.

      • I was really surprised when I saw Moore had released the film. Some of his others were just plain fake climate change fiascos.

        This one was different because he actually showed a lot of the lies behind the climate change hoax. And he didn’t fake it. He showed that “renewable” energy simply isn’t what it is touted to be. None of the technologies can’ actually be economic and grid friendly.

        The last third or so did kind of fall back into climate propaganda but didn’t negate the main message of the film.

      • How is it gonna cost him?
        He had an audience on the Left and now folks on the right will want to see his latest film.
        The pendulum will swing back in his next “documentary”.
        And all the while he gets great publicity for taking a supposed “contrary stance”!

    • Hard to say who is the bigger [jerk]. Mann or Moore? Both are tossers.

      Fixed that for you 😀

    • Suffers badly from narcissism I think. Hence the constant need to pull others down and try to inflict pain to feel good. Just my opinon formed from the pattern repeating in his behaviour. He must be a joy to work with.

      • “Suffers badly from narcissism I think.”

        That is proven. Just read his testimony before congress:

        “I am a Fellow of numerous scientific societies. I was awarded the Hans Oeschger Medal of the European Geophysical Union in 2012 and received the Friend of the Planet Award from the National Center for Science Education in 2014. I received the Stephen H. Schneider Award for Outstanding Climate Science Communication in 2017, the Award for Public Engagement with Science from the American Association for the Advancement of Science in 2018 and the Climate Communication Prize from the American Geophysical Union in 2018. This year I received the Tyler Prize for Environmental Achievement. I have authored more than 200 publications, and four books.”*

        Has this anything to do with evidence? Does it matter if he is just plain wrong? That’s all appealing to authority fallacy. Worthless.

        * https://michaelmann.net/content/oral-opening-statement-michael-mann-testimony-us-house-oversight-committee-hearing-climate

        • Nothing of an academic, scientific or research nature that I can see; just “PR” awards (participation trophies?):

          o Hans Oeschger Medal of the European Geophysical Union in 2012

          o Friend of the Planet Award from the National Center for Science Education in 2014

          o Stephen H. Schneider Award for Outstanding Climate Science Communication in 2017

          o Award for Public Engagement with Science from the American Association for the Advancement of Science in 2018

          o Climate Communication Prize from the American Geophysical Union in 2018

          o Tyler Prize for Environmental Achievement [2020]

          • “Tyler Prize for Environmental Achievement [2020]”

            What did he do to win that; throw his dirty underwear in the laundry hamper instead of on the floor?

          • It is telling that the awards he boasts of are for communication and not science. That goes a long way in explaining why he spends his time in activism and advocacy and not scientific research.

          • _Jim – you left out the 2019 Praxis Award in Professional Ethics, awarded to Michael Mann in April last year by Villanova University, Pa. The Praxis Award is given to a professional or academic who exemplifies the highest ethical ideals of their profession or who has contributed to professional ethics scholarship.

            Dr Mann has a lot to be proud of, but it might be a good idea if someone introduced him to an ethic one day, so that he knew what it looked like.

    • He may well suffer from that Krishna, but its a symptom of his greater problem, Noble cause syndrome…

      His bunker mentality is also a symptom.

  3. I guess the old adage of “It takes one to know one” applies here!

    Put the popcorn in the microwave, get your favorite beverage out of the fridge and sit back and enjoy this. It should be quite enjoyable.

  4. Michael Mann is a Russian Stooge, having long ago been hijacked by Marxist ideology, assisting in the long march through the academic institutions of scientific ethics. He has single handedly done more to disgrace climate science than anyone alive. I have1000x more respect for Russian scientists than mickey Mann.

    But it is nice to see them throwing sticks and stones at each other. This is hopefully the demise and unravelling of the climate hostage extortion led by Mann et al. There is no more money for this climate scam anyway after the trillions just spent on the Wuhan/Chinese virus.

    • Mann could not have done what he did without massive, active, and loudly outspoken support from his peers — erstwhile scientists.

      • Yes indeed! I would say that Mann is the leader of the public face of all the scientists (climate and non climate) that support this institutionalized climate extortion crap. There are many, many credible scientists that do not support this non scientific crap, but it doesn’t do their present careers any good to dissent from the peer pressure of consensus science, and hence they are silenced, fired and ignored. The tide will turn as it always does since science is supposed to be self correcting over longer time frames. Michael Mann et al, will be viewed in the future as a pariah activist scientists, having set back the numerous climate sciences and public policy by decades.

      • Dr. Pat got it right with his propagation of errors work. But almost no one listened. Or understood. One day they will.

    • Those that oppose fracking, are sometimes financed by Russians, wanting to destroy US oil success.

  5. But we’ve had Climategate. We’ve seen his emails.
    We know he hides inconvenient truths to push his agenda. We know he’s a pastiche of a scientist.

    How can Mann’s reputation be harmed any further? He was exposed decades ago.

      • He’s OK. Obviously very vulnerable and so stuck at home. His only human contact being the lady who brings him his food and the telephone.
        But as he say, his life expectancy is zero and has been for a few years now.
        So that’s winning.

        • Thank you for letting me know. I will continue to remember him in my prayers. Please tell him, “Hello” from me.

          His positive attitude reminds me of an interview I saw on TV with an actor (forget who) who was asked about his dad who was living with a similarly dire diagnosis.

          Host: And how is your dad doing these days?

          Actor: You know, I go to see Dad and I’ll ask him, “How are you doing today?” And he always says, “I feel great. I have one more day.”

          Take care,


    • BTW, I’m surprised no-one followed up on my comment. As I’m pointing out something for more interesting Reds under the Bed scares.
      This is not about the Russians. No Russians are required to access Mann’s emails. We have had Climategate.
      Moore is threatening to make a follow up documentary on Climategate.
      Now that would be shocking to the cast host of honest people who are genuinely concerned about the environment and defending science but have been told that CAGW scepticism is akin to anti-vaxxers.

      • 1) “Reds under the beds” wasn’t just a scare. There really were communist elements in the country at the time. Still are. But then as a socialist/communist yourself, you already know that but prefer to push the myth that it was just “a scare”.
        2) I hope Moore does do a follow-up on Climategate as long as it’s an honest look at it and not a PR piece brushing it aside in order to push the CAGW agenda. Given Moore’s track record, however, I don’t hold out much hope (even this latest doco tries to push the agenda even as it points out the problems with renewables).

    • That was the biggest eye opener for me , I thought Drax buring US forests was an anomaly of badly thought out policy. I did not realise that it was an entire industry.

      Much indebted to Moore and Gibbs for exposing the full extent of this stupidity and the hypocrisy of the eco-fascists on this issue.

      • Gregg,

        I had no idea this was going on. Several of those biomass power plants are burning old railroad ties.
        Deforestation? Green energy?

        Let this be the final nail in the coffin of the climate crisis crowd.

        • I had no idea of the extent either. Railway sleepers (as they’re called in the UK) were covered in creosote or something similar to prevent rotting. Not to mention the various nastinesses that dripped onto them in the course of their lives!

          And we’re burning those? In preference to gas? And pretending that’s environmentally sane? Let alone environmentally friendly!

          • Newminster,

            The film shows one plant adding shredded tire chips to the wood chips. As we all know, green forest trees don’t burn well. smh

      • I thought it funny that they named the company after the villain in Moonraker, trying to wipe out the human race so he could reseed the earth with perfect people.
        Which is pretty much the agenda of the left and the GND.

        • It’s named after the nearby Yorkshire village which was noted in the Domesday Book in 1086….

  6. In the great drawing of life it is thought that everyone gets something, physical?, mental?, spiritual?, bravery?, selflessness?, kindness?, etc. etc. Though I do not believe in luck, perhaps Michael Moore, in this case, was just lucky and was right for the first time in his life but I would bet more on the possibility that it is one more case of attention seeking on his part. Neither of these two show any signs of positive attributes.

  7. Show us yer math then Mickey Mann.

    Oooooh errr …. the dog ate my homework

  8. Michael Moore advocates for more Oil & Gas in Canada and US.

    If this is what Putin’s Russia wants, … great for us! But I fail to see how this benefits Russia.

    Mann is a terrible conspiracy theorist, among many other things.

  9. As I keep saying.
    If we who doubt had invented The Mann as an act of fiction,no one would have believed us.
    Gilbert and Sullivan spring to mind every time The Mann elbows his ugly way in front of a microphone.
    It is the spokesman of choice for Team IPCC UN…
    He looks real good on them.

  10. Heretic! Apostate! We’d burn you at the stake but it’d release too much CO2, but you just wait till we get enough money donated to buy the carbon offset credits (rubs hands together evilly). Link to our Burn Moore GoFundMe page will be forthcoming soon!

    Jeez louise. The AGW cultists are acting just like usual, insults, insinuations, fact free accusations, threats. How dare someone come along and try to derail the gravy train.

    • yeah well how long till mannikins pension/retirements due?
      bit on an incentive?
      as well as afterward stepping into old boys/ best buds advisory roles consultancy at obscene fees etc
      like the goracle

  11. Russia listening to Mikey Mannish? Why? Are they short on lame jokes? Do they want to revive Lysenko’s version of “Science” where facts are whatever you want them to be as long as the money comes and no matter how many suffer or die. The number of things this fool seems to believe that defy logic is amazing. Add to the list the belief that Russia cares a rats butt what Mikey thinks, says believes or lies about.

  12. So pathetic when they have to channel Rachael Maddow “Russia, Russia, Russia”. Ah

  13. he should have been fired for exaggerated modelling that led to mass hysteria and the destruction of many of the world’s economies, but this will suffice for now:

    6 May: Daily Mail: Imperial College scientist Neil Ferguson QUITS his role as top government advisor after ‘breaking lockdown to see his married lover’ despite warning Boris Johnson that 500,000 Britons would DIE if the strict rules were not enforced
    •Professor Neil Ferguson, 51, previously warned UK could see 500,000 deaths if it didn’t implement lockdown
    •His advice, through a report he helped produce at Imperial College, is thought to have led to the lockdown
    •Prof Ferguson has been a vocal supporter of lockdown, continually telling the public to follow the restrictions
    •However, he has now admitted he allowed his married lover to travel across London to visit him at least twice
    •Antonia Staats, 38, lives with her husband, in his 30s, and two children in a £1.9 million house in south London
    By Danyal Hussain
    Prof Ferguson is thought to have met Ms Staat’s husband and they share an interest in data science, according to a friend. He is said to have met Ms Staats through the online dating site OkCupid more than a year ago…

    3 Apr: Nature: Special report: The simulations driving the world’s response to COVID-19
    How epidemiologists rushed to model the coronavirus pandemic.
    by David Adam
    An earlier version of the Imperial (College London/Neil Ferguson) model, for instance, estimated that SARS-CoV-2 would be about as severe as influenza in necessitating the hospitalization of those infected. That turned out to be incorrect…

    The true performance of simulations in this pandemic might become clear only months or years from now…
    “Forecasts made during an outbreak are rarely investigated during or after the event for their accuracy, and only recently have forecasters begun to make results, code, models and data available for retrospective analysis,” (John Edmunds, who is a modeller at the LSHTM) and his team noted last year in a paper6 that assessed the performance of forecasts made in a 2014–15 Ebola outbreak in Sierra Leone…

    Media reports have suggested that an update to the Imperial team’s model in early March was a critical factor in jolting the UK government into changing its policy on the pandemic. The researchers initially estimated that 15% of hospital cases would need to be treated in an intensive-care unit (ICU), but then updated that to 30%, a figure used in the first public release of their work on 16 March…

    Ferguson says the significance of the model update might have been exaggerated…

    25 Apr: Business Insider: How ‘Professor Lockdown’ helped save tens of thousands of lives worldwide — and carried COVID-19 into Downing Street
    by Bill Bostock
    Professor Neil Ferguson, of Imperial College London, authored a paper that prompted the UK to scrap its coronavirus strategy.
    Ferguson’s team warned Boris Johnson that the quest for “herd immunity” could cost 510,000 lives, prompting an abrupt U-turn.
    His simulations have been influential in other countries as well, cited by authorities in the US, Germany, and France…

    On March 23, the UK scrapped “herd immunity” in favor of a suppression strategy, and the country made preparations for weeks of lockdown. Ferguson’s study was responsible…
    The White House received the paper two days before it was made public…

    Scientists have piled in to criticize Ferguson’s paper in less uncertain terms.
    “Some of the major assumptions and estimates that are built in the calculations seem to be substantially inflated,” John Ioannidis, a professor of disease prevention from Stanford University, told The Telegraph…

    • Such “models” are more accurately termed ‘statistical conjectures.’

      Maybe if Ferguson had said, ‘my statistical conjecture is that blah, blah, blah,’ the politicians and policy-makers would have known to be more judicious in its application.

      See the Blaze story and the UnHerd video interview with Michael Levitt here.

      • British politicians are generally credulous, innumerate and frequently rather dim (e.g. Diane Abbott).

  14. I know Moore is very liberal but I wonder what he’s thinking about how his side has been treating him?

    • Millionaire Micheal Moore is probably crying all the way to the bank.

      Seriously, I’ve often wondered whether he was a right-winger making movies to take some easy money from the left.

  15. Pass the popcorn. The clown show is here.
    It is awesome watching these two.
    If anyone thought Mann had some intelligence in there let that belief be gone!

  16. With apologies to Robert Burns, its yet another example of Mann’s inhumanity to (a fellow) man….

  17. O f the two Michaels, Moore is the worst. Mann only wants money, Moore wants to depopulate the earth.

  18. Ferguson’s lover, Antonia Staats, has an interesting job!

    Wikipedia: Avaaz
    UK-based newspaper The Guardian considers it “the globe’s largest and most powerful online activist network”…
    Avaaz.org was co-founded by Res Publica, a “community of public sector professionals dedicated to promoting good governance, civic virtue and deliberative democracy,” and MoveOn.org, an American non-profit progressive public policy advocacy group. It was also supported by Service Employees International Union, a founding partner…

    ***On 5 May 2020, Antonia Staats, a senior campaigner for Avaaz, was named as the lover of Professor Neil Ferguson, who advocated a mass lockdown in response to COVID-19, but breached its stipulations in pursuing his affair…

    “Since 2009, Avaaz has not taken donations from foundations or corporations, nor has it accepted payments of more than $5,000 (£3,100),” The Guardian reported. “Instead, it relies simply on the generosity of individual members, who have now raised over $20m (£12.4m).” Prior to 2009 various foundations had funded Avaaz’s staff and start-up costs…

    Avaaz claims to unite practical idealists from around the world…
    In practice, Avaaz often supports causes considered progressive, such as calling for global action on climate change, challenging Monsanto, and building greater global support for refugees…
    In the 2016 United States presidential election, Avaaz campaigned against Donald Trump with the slogan “Defeat Donald Trump”, and produced a software tool to simplify overseas voter registration…

    LinkedIn: Antonia Staats, Senior Campaigner at Avaaz.org, London
    Campaigner/Senior Campaigner
    2011 – Present

    • WTF is a”practical idealist”? And do I want a wealthy group of them getting themselves in a position where they can tell me how to live my life?!

      • A practical idealist is like an empathetic psychopath and I’m sure you can conjure up plenty more non-existent categories of humans. What’s the point of the exercise you may well ask? Well if it brings in lots of wealthy donors and a cushy number like Senior Campaigner why wouldn’t you particularly if things are a bit mundane at home.

  19. Good grief, Mann claims eradicating CO2 from the atmosphere will cause the planet to freeze! (We’ll all starve wondering why it’s not cold if that happens…)


    He doesn’t need the ideal gas laws, he can ignore geothermal influence, milankovitch cycles and all the rest. Because he says it’s true that the climate (atmospheric temperature) is solely based on the concentration of CO2.

    Why is he not stripped of his PhD? He’s not using it in any capacity.

  20. This is nutso stuff. This is Alex Jones-level conspiracy garbage. Maybe Moore will sue.

    The irony of Mann talking about emails…bizarre.

    • (no changes — just some bolding added by me)

      From: Phil Jones
      To: ray bradley,mann@xxxxx.xxx, mhughes@xxxx.xxx
      Subject: Diagram for WMO Statement
      Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:31:15 +0000
      Cc: k.briffa@xxx.xx.xx,t.osborn@xxxx.xxx

      Dear Ray, Mike and Malcolm,

      Once Tim’s got a diagram here we’ll send that either later today or
      first thing tomorrow.
      I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps
      to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from
      1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline. …


      Prof. Phil Jones
      Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) xxxxx
      School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) xxxx
      University of East Anglia
      Norwich Email p.jones@xxxx.xxx
      NR4 7TJ
      UK …

      From: Jonathan Overpeck
      To: “Michael E. Mann”
      Subject: letter to Senate
      Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:49:31 -0700
      Cc: Caspar M Ammann , Raymond Bradley , Keith Briffa , Tom Crowley , Malcolm Hughes , Phil Jones , mann@xxxxx.xxx, jto@xxxxx.xx.xxx, omichael@xxxxx.xxx, Tim Osborn , Kevin Trenberth , Tom Wigley

      Hi all – I’m not too comfortable with this, … I think it would be more appropriate for the AGU or some other scientific org to do this – … I’m not sure we want to go down this path. It would be much better for the AGU etc to do it. …

      Cheers, Peck …”


      Cheers. 😐

  21. In each of his tweets, Mann seems to purposely expose himself as a fraudulent clown.

    He seems to behave as a serial killer – payed by the anti crime squad – who desperately leaves clues everywhere in the hope of being shut up and expose the all scheme.

  22. A good analogy, IMHO…

    Closing Time
    Yeah we’re drinking and we’re dancing
    But there’s nothing really happening
    And the place is dead as Heaven on a Saturday night
    And my very close companion
    Gets me fumbling gets me laughing
    She’s a hundred but she’s wearing
    Something tight
    And I lift my glass to the awful truth
    Which you can’t reveal to the ears of youth
    Except to say it isn’t worth a dime
    And the whole damn place goes crazy twice
    And it’s once for the devil and it’s once for Christ
    But the boss don’t like these dizzy heights
    We’re busted in the blinding lights

  23. Off topic, but instructive about how the class of people who use wonky mathematical models to remove our freedoms have no intention of letting their own be curtailed in any way:

    Married Leftist Warmist activist Antonia Staats twice left her £1.9m home in South London to cross the metropolis to visit her lover – one time when her husband was down with suspected COVID-19.

    That lover was Prof Neil Ferguson, the supposed world-class epidemiologist who has cost Britain billions with his alarmist projections about Foot-and-Mouth, Mad Cow disease, and now COVID-19. His advice to close down “inessential” activities in the countries of the West risks collapsing their economies, costing tens of trillions, killing tens or hundreds of millions of people, and concentrating almost all wealth and power in the hands of the insiders able to get first dibs on the “stimulus” currency that will inflate away any wealth that ordinary people have managed to save.

    But apparently neither of this delightful couple has any qualms about breaking the travel restrictions that he got the government to impose on us – or indeed about breaking the social distancing limit by about 6 foot 6 inches.


  24. I hope Moore isn’t inhaling deeply next to Assange. One reason the Ecuadorian embassy wanted to get rid of him was his abysmal hygiene practices, or lack thereof.

      • For whatever reason, the Ecuadorians wanted his allegedly stinky posterior out of there.

        • Equador expelled him because the IMF wouldn’t give them a bailout until they did.

          I notice you peddle a lot of Atlanticist propaganda around here.

  25. The person that can figure out a way expand this little battle between Mann and Moore until is escalates into an all out war between Hollywood and Academia would be a real hero.

  26. We need a separate we-hate-Mann website. I’m not being critical of the above comments. We need one. It’s cathartic.

    • Oh, I dunno, Robert B.. I don’t think we do hate him. How can we when he makes us laugh so much? We scorn him, mostly, I think.

  27. Mann is re-tweeting Maxine Joselow, but I didn’t see a link to her actual article. here it is:

    5 May: E&E News: Michael Moore’s documentary irks climate scientists
    by Maxine Joselow, E&E News reporter, Climatewire
    “If we don’t face the truth we’re doomed. My camera will expose whatever and whoever needs to be exposed,” Gibbs later wrote.
    But its critics say “Planet of the Humans,” which has racked up more than 6.2 million views since its release on YouTube last month, has a loose relationship with facts.
    “The film presents a distorted and outdated depiction of the renewable energy industry in an effort to malign renewable energy, thus ironically promoting the agenda of the fossil fuel industry,” Michael Mann, a climate scientist at Pennsylvania State University, said in an email to E&E News….

    “My friends and I have been saying these things for years about renewable energy. And then Michael Moore comes along and just devastates this whole renewable energy myth,” said Steve Milloy, a skeptic of mainstream climate science who runs the blog JunkScience.com…
    https://www.eenews.net/stories/106304984. ..READ ON

  28. “Michael vs Michael: Mann attacks Moore as Russian Stooge”

    Normally I would think that COVID 19 has transmuted into a brain affecting virus but now I think it possible that it came from Michal Mann. Well it makes about as much sense as the rest of the crap that he has produced. Maybe I am wrong and we are just seeing the results of Mann beating himself senseless and causing brain damage using a hockey stick all those years ago? I mean bats%$t crazy and butchering bats in a wet market are variations on a theme are they not.

  29. btw Michael Mann has been in Australia (see links below) where the phrase “Russia, If You’re Listening” has another meaning. it’s a podcast on taxpayer-funded ABC by Matt Bevan, which is virulently anti-Trump, and still holds to Putin helping Trump win in 2016. scroll down to see all the Trump/Russia podcasts, 3 series, right up until December 2019, including doozies like “Trumpdate: Why Brett Kavanaugh matters to the Russia Investigation” and “Trumpdate: Does the anonymous NYT op-ed spell the end for Donald Trump?”. (click “show more episodes”). you won’t find any episodes titled “Trump exonerated by Mueller”:

    ABC: Russia, If you’re Listening

    VIDEO: 1h7m: 3 Feb: ABC Q+A Bushfires Special
    includes Panellist Michael Mann
    MICHAEL MANN: I just arrived here in December. I’m an American. But my colleagues here at… (LAUGHS) I’m American, but I love Australia. And, you know, my colleagues here, they’re wonderful colleagues, at CSIRO here, at ANU, University of New South Wales. Some of the best climate scientists and atmospheric scientists and oceanographers in the world are here in Australia. It’s really a luxury that the government should be drawing upon…

    MICHAEL MANN: My view is the view of the world scientific community, every scientific institution in the world that’s weighed in on this matter – climate change is real, it’s human caused, it’s already leading to disastrous impacts here in Australia and around the rest of the world. And it will get much worse if we don’t act…

    JIM MOLAN (NSW Senator): But this is why my mind is open. I would love to be convinced one way or the other. But to be prudent, what the government is doing is it’s got a climate… an emissions reduction policy. And it is a good policy. And it will mitigate risk to the maximum that it can. And where risk cannot be mitigated, it will adapt. And that’s what we’ve got to work on, is the adaption.

    MICHAEL MANN: Come on now, mate…
    MICHAEL MANN: Now, you know, you should keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out. When it comes to this issue, when it comes to human-caused climate change, it’s literally the consensus of the world’s scientists that it’s caused by human activity. Now, you sometimes hear the talking point from contrarians, from the Murdoch media…

    ABC loves Mann, especially when he plays along with their anti-Murdoch agenda:

    AUDIO: 10m56s: 15 Jan: ABC: Dr Michael Mann calls out Murdoch media’s ‘egregious’ climate change denial
    By Linda Mottram on PM
    But Dr Michael Mann, who’s a Distinguished Professor of Atmospheric Science at Pennsylvania State University is scathing about Rupert Murdoch’s influence.
    He happens to be in Sydney researching climate and extreme events and joins PM for his insights.

    CAGW dissent shall not be allowed.

  30. Mann should be careful playing with a doubled-edged scalpel. He has well and truly aborted the baby.

  31. Michael Mann’s hockey stick relied a lot on one tree in Siberia. Yes folks, Mann’s hockey stick literally depended on “a Russian plant”. Sorry I couldn’t resist.

    • “Michael Mann’s hockey stick relied a lot on one tree in Siberia.”

      People here consistently get this wrong. Mann’s original HS (MBH98) relied on Bristlecone Pines from the US Southwest.

      The one tree in Yamal was Keith Briffa. Mann used it later, much later.

  32. 3 May: Daily Mail: Revealed: Extinction Rebellion’s plot to ‘sabotage the economy’ by staging rent strikes, halting tax payments and taking out bank loans they don’t intend to repay
    •Extinction Rebellion are unable to protest in the traditional way during lockdown…
    by David Rose
    Internal documents obtained by The Mail on Sunday set out plans for a ‘Money Rebellion’ involving acts of financial sabotage to ‘directly challenge the fundamental principles that govern our national and global economies’….

    It seeks to legitimise the protest by arguing that ‘our economic system is causing cancer in our planet’. It adds: ‘We will resist irresponsible lenders. Some of us will legally dispute debts, others will refuse to pay debts.’
    Barclays Bank is named as a top target, with supporters encouraged to ‘take out a personal loan or a credit card’ and ‘publicly declare that they will not repay the debt’. HSBC, NatWest and Lloyds are also listed…

    Other possible protests include a utilities strike, where activists refuse to pay their bills unless suppliers promise to switch to 100 per cent renewable energy, and plans for supporters to withhold VAT, student debt or mortgage payments.
    XR said: ‘Covid-19 is making it evidently clear that our economic system is not set up to support the people who keep it going. The proposals laid out in these documents are being considered because we want to avert further chaos down the line.’

    • yup
      and dear lil grumbleguts Greta came to the uk to see jeremy corbyn and praise ext reb yet again
      after this lunacy was known
      shows just how stupid or corrupt or famechasing they are


    Circa 2009 or earlier, I did not date or reference my posts. This is one of my early missives:

    Wind power, solar power and corn ethanol are not green energy – they are brown energy.

    They require life-of-project subsidies – a strong indicator that they consume more energy than they produce.

    The brown energy movement is entirely dependent upon rent-seeking subsidies from consumers and governments to survive.

    The brown energy movement is deceitful, relying upon global warming fraudsters to promote its projects, and government regulation to force consumers to buy its worthless products at ridiculously high prices.

    If consumers were fully aware of the enormous costs they pay to support this shameless scam, there would be a cry for public lynching of these global warming fraudsters.

    It is time for a full public enquiry on the fraudulent science of alleged catastrophic global warming, and the ruinous economics of brown energy.

    • Excellent comment (as usual, Mr. Allan MacRae).

      Here is where you said that (or something very like it) on February 22, 2017 at 2:25am


      You made other cogent remarks on that thread, too: https://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2017/02/22/why-are-utility-investors-and-renewable-energy-investors-are-like-oil-and-water

      Just FYI. 🙂

      No doubt, you said those things years before, also — just didn’t want to take the time to find the original comments.

      • Thank you Janet for your kind comments.

        I have two engineering degrees, have researched climate-and-energy since ~1985 and started publishing papers in 2002.

        In 2002 my co-authors and I published the following statements that have both proven correct–to-date:

        a. “Climate science does not support the theory of catastrophic human-made global warming – the alleged warming crisis does not exist.”

        b. “The ultimate agenda of pro-Kyoto advocates is to eliminate fossil fuels, but this would result in a catastrophic shortfall in global energy supply – the wasteful, inefficient energy solutions proposed by Kyoto advocates simply cannot replace fossil fuels.”

        Since then, trillions of dollars of scarce global resources have been squandered on phony green energy schemes that are not green and produce little useful (dispatchable) energy. The result of this green energy virtue-signalling has been the destabilization of electrical grids, runaway energy costs, energy poverty, increases in winter deaths, and insignificant reduction in CO2 emissions. What a foolish debacle!

        Published by APEGA in the PEGG, reprinted by other professional journals, The Globe and Mail and La Presse,
        by Dr. Sallie Baliunas (Harvard-Smithsonian), Dr. Tim Patterson (Carleton U) and Allan MacRae, November 2002

  34. Chinese communist media, CGTN, seems to like this. heard it last nite on BBC World Service, but can’t find it documents on BBC online.

    5 May: CGTN: Red Cross looks to global influencers to fight virus ‘infodemic’
    By CGTN Africa
    But while the WHO and others are putting out correct information, it can be difficult to reach everyone and counter the misconceptions.
    “Getting the right information out there when an emergency strikes is as important as healthcare,” Nicola Jones, media manager for the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC), said in a statement…

    In a bid to reach young people especially with accurate and vital information about the deadly disease spreading around the globe, IFRC said it had joined forces with marketing agency Billion Dollar Boy to sign up more than two dozen prominent individuals with large social media followings.
    Those influencers who have signed on to the campaign so far have a joint reach of nearly two million followers across four countries, IFRC said, adding that it expected the list of participants, and followers reached, to swell significantly over coming days and weeks…

    They include Antonio Nunziata of Italy — one of the countries hardest hit in the pandemic — who has more than 230,000 followers, and interior design blogger Katie Woods of Britain, with nearly 190,000 followers.
    Influencers from Mexico and the United Arab Emirates are also on the list…

    6 May: Yahoo: Red Cross looks to global influencers to fight virus ‘infodemic’
    by Nina LARSON, Agence-France Presse
    The World Health Organization website lists a catalogue of dangerous “myths” circulating about the virus, including suggestions that hot peppers or excessive exposure to the sun can prevent or cure COVID-19.
    And it flatly debunks suggestions by US President Donald Trump and others that injecting disinfectant or exposing the body to ultraviolent radiation can rid the body of the virus.

    But while the WHO and others are putting out correct information, it can be difficult to reach everyone and counter the misconceptions…
    Every week, the IFRC said it would send the influencer network an approved message it wants to disseminate, and the influencers will take the messaging and create their own content, ***which will be approved by the organisation before it is distributed…

    • re: “And it flatly debunks suggestions by US President Donald Trump and others that injecting disinfectant ”

      THIS ‘myth’ only exists because we have so many idiots in the press MANUFACTURING CRAP that THEY then disseminate with their wholly-owned ‘platforms’ … MAYBE the MSM/nooze mediots needs to be more ‘tightly’ (BUT there is that 1st Amendment in the US) managed?

    • And none of these anti Trump medical idiots, I mean medical doctors, even realized that injecting disinfectant is a thing.

      And bleach is not grotesque in the context of suppressing germs.

      So they have it 100% wrong, and they are uneducated re: medicine and care.

  35. Another nail in the coffin of the warmest cult. Gotta give it to ’em, nearly 50yrs worth of nails been hammered in, some of them thar climategate nails had to be at least 6″. You think they’re 6ft under but they claw their way out.

  36. Come on everyone, you should be ashamed!

    I mean, you gotta listen to “the Mann”.

    He is ever so smart, and handsome too.

    Not only does he have a Nobel Prize, I am sure that he even invented the symbol for that fabulous electronic component, the thermistor, as in, say:


    See there in the thermistor symbol, see the hockey stick, that’s only a small part of what this learned scientist has contributed to our world..

  37. When the BBC paraded Mikey Mann in their absurd TV programme’Climate Change -The Facts’ it was an insult to their taxpayers and another weak attempt to whitewash the Climategate fraud – which has been itching under the BBC skin for a decade. Maybe MM’s shift to a ‘clean energy’ trope shows he’s recognised the futility of the ‘extreme weather’ caper he’s making his name on

  38. It is entirely possible to exist only from renewable energies, but not for 10 billion people on earth. So the question is who should continue to live on earth and who should not! I suggest that I belong to the first group.

  39. from BBC CAGW stooge, Harrabin:

    6 May: BBC: Coronavirus: UK warned to avoid climate change crisis
    By Roger Harrabin
    The UK must avoid lurching from the coronavirus crisis into a deeper climate crisis, the government’s advisers have warned.
    They recommend that ministers ensure funds earmarked for a post-Covid-19 economic recovery go to firms that will reduce carbon emissions…
    And investment should prioritise broadband over road-building, the Committee on Climate Change (CCC) says…

    ◾Download the updated BBC Energy Briefing
    ◾Covid recovery plan ‘must tackle climate change’
    ◾Don’t forget ‘deeper emergency’, says UN chief
    ◾Blue skies pushed Greenland ‘into the red’

    In a letter to the Prime Minister, the committee says jobless people should be re-trained for work in geographically-spread labour-intensive “green” industries such as home insulation; tree-planting; and peatland restoration…

    ***Green groups say any bailout should include a condition that the industry shrinks until it finds a technological solution to its carbon emissions…

    The committee says the government must produce policies that allow the UK to reduce emissions to Net Zero in an orderly way – unlike the chaos of the Covid-19 crisis…

  40. I just had to put my two cents in here. That biomass number includes all the power generators that burn our garbage. For example Westchester county NY with 60 MW electricity. With proper pollution controls this a great way to extend the lives of our land fills and in the process remove combustible products.

    • Albert,

      That’s a good point, I don’t know how many of these biomass power plants meet emission standards. On the other hand, as I understand it, wood is dirtier than coal and trees absorb CO2. NG would be the better choice but not to the greens. because it’s ‘fossil fuel’. hmm.

  41. I never thought I’d waste my time watching a Moore film, but if he does a documentary on Mann, I will. I remember reading some interesting things about Mann’s history at Junk Science, I think, but I can’t find it.

  42. The irony of all this is that Michael Mann was outed by Russian scientists who hacked all the Climategate emails.

  43. Possibly, but it seemed more like an insider and the Climategate e-mails just came off a Russian server, by whatever means.

    Anyone know what the actual back story on Climategate the First was?

  44. I really hope Mann pi%%&s Moore enough so that Moore makes a document movie of Climategate…

  45. Referring to either Mann or Moore as a stooge is a huge insult to Moe, Larry, and Curly (Shemp and Curly Joe too. ah heck, it’s even an insult to Joe)

  46. Russia Russia Russia…

    Putin even managed to make Joe Creep Biden rape Tara Reade. Or something.

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