
Honest, evidence-based climate models could avoid trillions of dollars in policy blunders
Paul Driessen and David R. Legates
President Trump and his Coronavirus Task Force presented some frightening numbers during their March 31 White House briefing. Based on now 2-week-old data and models, as many as 100,000 Americans at the models’ low end, to 2.2 million at their high end, could die from the fast-spreading virus, they said.
However, the President, Vice President Pence, and Drs. Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx hastened to add, those high-end numbers are based on computer models. And they are “unlikely” if Americans keep doing what they are doing now to contain, mitigate and treat the virus. Although that worst-case scenario “is possible,” it is “unlikely if we do the kinds of things that we’re essentially outlining right now.”
On March 31, Dr. Fauci said, the computer models were saying that, even with full mitigation, it is “likely” that America could still suffer at least 100,000 deaths. But he then added a very important point:
“The question is, are the models really telling us what’s going on? When someone creates a model, they put in various assumptions. And the models are only as good and as accurate as the assumptions you put into them. As we get more data, as the weeks go by, that might change. We feed the data back into the models and relook at the models.” The data can change the assumptions – and thus the models’ forecasts.
“If we have more data like the NY-NJ metro area, the numbers could go up,” Dr. Birx added. But if the numbers coming in are more like Washington or California, which reacted early and kept their infection and death rates down – then the models would likely show lower numbers. “We’re trying to prevent that logarithmic increase in New Orleans and Detroit and Chicago – trying to make sure those cities work more like California than like the New York metro area.” That seems to be happening, for the most part.
If death rates from corona are misattributed or inflated, if other model assumptions should now change, if azithromycin, hydroxychloroquine and other treatments, and people’s immunities are reducing infections – then business shutdowns and stay-home orders could (and should) end earlier, and we can go back to work and life, rebuild America’s and the world’s economies … and avoid different disasters, like these:
Millions of businesses that never reopen. Tens of millions of workers with no paychecks. Tens of trillions of dollars vanished from our economy. Millions of families with lost homes and savings. Millions of cases of depression, stroke, heart attack, domestic violence, suicide, murder-suicide, and early death due to depression, obesity and alcoholism, due to unemployment, foreclosure and destroyed dreams.
In other words, numerous deaths because of actions taken to prevent infections and deaths from COVID.
It is vital that they recheck the models and assumptions – and distinguish between COVID-19 deaths actually due to the virus … and not just associated with or compounded by it, but primarily due to age, obesity, pneumonia or other issues. We can’t afford a cure that’s worse than the disease – or a prolonged and deadly national economic shutdown that could have been shortened by updated and corrected models.
Now just imagine: What if we could have that same honest, science-based approach to climate models?
What if the White House, EPA, Congress, UN, EU and IPCC acknowledged that climate models are only as good and as accurate as the assumptions built into them? What if – as the months and years went by and we got more real-world temperature, sea level and extreme weather data – we used that information to honestly refine the models? Would the assumptions and therefore the forecasts change dramatically?
What if we use real science to help us understand Earth’s changing climate and weather? And base energy and other policies on real science that honestly examines manmade and natural influences on climate?
Many climate modelers claim we face existential manmade climate cataclysms caused by our use of fossil fuels. They use models to justify calls to banish fossil fuels that provide 80% of US and global energy; close down countless industries, companies and jobs; totally upend our economy; give trillions of dollars in subsidies to fossil fuel replacement companies; and drastically curtail our travel and lifestyles.
Shouldn’t we demand that these models be verified against real-world evidence? Natural forces have caused climate changes and extreme weather events throughout history. What proof is there that what we see today is due to fossil fuel emissions, and not to those same natural forces? We certainly don’t want energy “solutions” that don’t work and are far worse than the supposed manmade climate and weather ‘virus.’
And we have the climate data. We’ve got years of data. The data show the models don’t match reality.
Model-predicted temperatures are more than 0.5 degrees F above actual satellite-measured average global temperatures – and “highest ever” records are mere hundredths of a degree above previous records from 50 to 80 years ago. Actual hurricane, tornado, sea level, flood, drought, and other historic records show no unprecedented trends or changes, no looming crisis, no evidence that humans have replaced the powerful natural forces that have always driven climate and weather in the real world outside the modelers’ labs.
Real science – and real scientists – seek to understand natural phenomena and processes. They pose hypotheses that they think best explain what they have witnessed, then test them against actual evidence, observations and data. If the hypotheses (and predictions based on them) are borne out by their subsequent observations or findings, the hypotheses become theories, rules or laws of nature – at least until someone finds new evidence that pokes holes in their assessments, or devises better explanations.
Real scientists often employ computers to analyze data more quickly and accurately, depict or model complex natural systems, or forecast future events or conditions. But they test their models against real-world evidence. If the models, observations and predictions don’t match up, real scientists modify or discard the models, and the hypotheses behind them. They engage in robust discussion and debate.
Real scientists don’t let models or hypotheses become substitutes for real-world data, evidence and observations. They don’t alter or “homogenize” raw or historic data to make it look like the models actually work. They don’t tweak their models after comparing predictions to actual subsequent observations, to make it look like the models “got it right.” They don’t “lose” or hide data and computer codes, restrict peer review to closed circles of like-minded colleagues who protect one another’s reputations and funding, claim “the debate is over,” or try to silence anyone who asks inconvenient questions or criticizes their claims or models. Climate modelers have done all of this – and more.
Put bluntly, what climate modelers are essentially saying is this: We don’t need data; we have models. If real world observations don’t conform to our computer model predictions, the real world must be wrong.
Climate models have always overstated the warming. But even though modelers have admitted that their models are “tuned” – revised after the fact to make it look like they predicted temperatures accurately – the modelers have made no attempt to change the climate sensitivity to match reality. Why not?
They know disaster scenarios sell. Disaster forecasts keep them employed, swimming in research money – and empowered to tell legislators and regulators that humanity must we take immediate, draconian action to eliminate all fossil fuel use – the economic, human and environmental consequences be damned. And they probably will never admit their mistakes or duplicity, much less be held accountable.
“Wash your hands! You could save millions of lives!” has far more impact than “You could save your own life, your kids’ lives, dozens of lives.” When it comes to climate change, you’re saving the planet.
With Mann-made climate change, we are always shown the worst-case scenario: RCP 8.5, the “business-as-usual” … ten times more coal use in 2100 than now … “total disaster.” Alarmist climatologists know their scenario has maybe a 0.1% likelihood, and assumes no new energy technologies over the next 80 years. But energy technologies have evolved incredibly over the last 80 years – since 1940, the onset of World War II! Who could possibly think technologies won’t change at least as much going forward?
Disaster scenarios are promoted because most people don’t know any better – and voters and citizens won’t accept extreme measures and sacrifices unless they are presented with extreme disaster scenarios.
The Fauci-Birx team is trying to do science-based modeling for the ChiCom-WHO coronavirus – feeding updated data into their models. Forecasts for infections and deaths are down significantly. Thankfully.
So now we must demand honest, factual, evidence-based climate model as well. No more alarmists and charlatans setting climate and energy policy. Our economy, livelihoods, lives and liberties are too vital.
The fact is, models are also only as good as the number of variables they can handle, and the data quality for every variable. There is no way models can possibly factor in the hundreds of infection, treatment, death and other variables associated with COVID – and Earth’s climate is vastly more complex. Simply put, models play a role but should never be a primary driving force in setting important public policies.
Paul Driessen is senior policy analyst for the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow (www.CFACT.org) and author of books and articles on energy, environment, climate and human rights issues. David R. Legates is a Professor of Climatology at the University of Delaware.
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★★★★★
One of the effects of this shutdown, strict adherence to staying at home, and making it difficult to get supplies, including food, is that, over a month or two, some people are going to lose their nutritional balance.Lack of exercise and change in diet is going to have wide-ranging effects as well.
Vitamins A and D and zinc levels are important for the immune system and resistance to disease.
On the other hand I’d think that many people who might pick up fast food on the way home from a busy day at work might now be able to take more time to shop for healthier food they’re preparing at home.
Tomsa,
The why is all the Raman noodles, Mac and Cheese, and canned pasta is all out of stock at the grocery store? I think maybe people are eating worse, not better.
I agree, partly due to the lockdown but for me I recently moved. I just started eating fresh fruit just this w/e its been almost 2 months with out it.
Well, I heard another effect last week – here in Portland about one person a day is typically shot. Since the shelter in place order, it’s been seventeen a day.
And it isn’t even summer-time yet.
On a positive note, abortion clinics are closed in some areas of the country. The USA kills about 3000 voiceless babies a day. Many now have a chance!!
I heard that was considered a vital service.
Up until recently, abortions were illegal here in Ireland. Now it’s very liberal. During this lockdown, the idiots in charge here, have advised that a woman/girl seeking an abortion, should arrange the whole procedure over the phone. They can take instruction over the phone (obviously not surgical) and abort their baby, with no supervision.
“One of the effects of this shutdown,…”
The effect of politicans saying the shutdown is going to go on would months {and months} is not “good”.
But there is a lot stupid politicans which people have stupidly elected.
Though if like drama queens representing you, you got what you wanted.
One could say in the US, we have already flatten the curve.
So, we have gotten the underpants and we are at step two:
“Collect underpants. Step 2. ? Step 3. PROFIT.”
So, after flattening the curve, one could say time is helpful, but too much time is a problem.
An analogy is after you have huge victory winning a battle, what you do? Well, you could say something like this occurred in Gulf war II.
A lot focus was on winning the battle, and there some thought about step two. Of course that might be terrifying analogy.
But analogies are overrated. And roughly all I am saying is it’s problem.
One thing I want is to start the Baseball season, now.
And mainly I want “baseball management” to solve the problem of how to do this as quickly as possible. Of course it will involve the baseball players. I imagine the baseball players want to play baseball. If they don’t, I don’t want to watch baseball ever, again. But I imagine they do want to play baseball and it’s only problem is “baseball management” can’t manage very well. Which is fine, I never had a lot faith in their managing skills.
Which bring me to next thing, we need to start the daycare, which we call “public school”.
Now, I would guess the Kids actually want to go to school and it’s slightly possible the schools management want to start school. And teachers might imagine their teaching does something important.
Though I tend to think watching baseball is less of waste of time.
Why not look at idea of starting alternative schooling- it seems like a good time to push, school choice.
Could allow the public schools to sideline themselves and allow alternative day care?
And why blame government? When you can blame baseball. Really, does baseball have any good excuse?
The numbers are already being misattributed and inflated. It is by design and instruction. Can’t have a pandemic fall short of expectations when you screw up an entire country.
I love your superbly informed and documented opinions 🙂
It’s blasphemy to criticize climate models & modelers. The Queen of Charts says “Off w/the blasphemer’s heads!”
When someone says logarithmic instead of exponential, you quietly usher them out of the door and give them some colour pencils to play with.
We have enough birx already.
What the word for people ending up resembling what their name means?
I noticed that too, It irritates the hell out of me every time I hear her say that, How can anyone trust the models of someone who doesn’t know the difference between logarithmic and exponential?
they are not her models
Mosh, you’re right, those aren’t Fauci’s or Birx’s models.
But surely they reviewed the models and the data? Asked questions about the model’s assumptions and the input (data)?
Shirley.
The truth is Fauci and Brix trusted the model programmers to make informed assumptions. The worse case assumptions scenario were also used to avoid understating the problem. If it was not scary then people wouldn’t adjust their behavior. In spite of the scary predictions the over confident population in New Jersey and NYC didn’t think the problem was any worse than the flu.
Whether or not they are “her models” if she has no idea what she is talking about why is she even in the room ?
When I heard her say it, I interpreted it as getting away from a line on a logarithmically-scaled chart such as Willis has been presenting. (Where a line on a log chart is exponential growth). Maybe I’m giving her more benefit of the doubt than warranted. She’s been a doctor, research scientist, and an ambassador. In my mind she’s a smart cookie and gets the benefit of the doubt from me.
The data most emphatically says second order.
Second order what ? What are you saying? Second order ODE ?
Hu hu !
🙂
eponymous?
Nominative determination
Dr. Birx added. But if the numbers coming in are more like Washington or California, which reacted early and kept their infection and death rates down – then the models would likely show lower numbers.
NY:190,288 cases, 9,385 deaths
CA: 23,324 cases, 682 deaths
NY: 8x the number of cases … 13x the number of deaths as CA
“The Narrative” insists This MASSIVE difference is because … CA “shut down” everything 4 days earlier than NY. 4 days. Yet the myth persists, that because CA “reacted quicker” that the State radically reduced the number of ChiCom-19 cases and deaths. Never have I heard such shallow thinking, and illogic. And this illogical MYTH persists … and has become universally accepted as “truth”. Note that the draconian, totalitarian, “shut in” orders came AFTER a long period of “softer” shut in orders.
What is the REAL logical reason CA has so many fewer cases and deaths from this HIGHLY COMMUNICABLE virus? ‘Mass Transit’. The vast majority of CA citizens DO NOT take mass transit. The vast majority of NY citizens DO take mass transit. Have you ever been on the NY subway? I have. It’s a human beehive. But that not only doesn’t fit the ‘narrative’ … it strongly argues against one of the essential tenets of CAGW – that we must all huddle together in increasingly dense population centers.
But why does the myth persist? The myth that 4-days “quicker action” made all the difference? Because that fits another narrative … the most important narrative … “Orange Man Bad” “Orange Man didn’t act FAST enough”. That Narrative even ends up on the Drudge Report in gigantic RED letters! That the NYT said someone heard someone say that Bad Orange Man ignored Scientists like Birx and Fauxci. My advice? Use your common sense. It right far more often than “official” narratives.
Kenji,
IMHO the major difference is population density.
NYC: 66,940 people per square mile
LA: 7,544 people per square mile
At almost 9 times the density one might assume that it has a significant factor on transmission of a communicable disease. Even more so for one that seems to be primarily transmitted by direct contact and near-time indirect contact.
Indeed. But remember! Suburban sprawl is … baaaaaaad mmmkay?
+ 100 **********
Have they not seen the subway riders even today? Worse since there are fewer riders ther are fewer cars resulting in the same crowding. Brainless.
The subway cars are empty now …
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/04/12/coronavirus-covid-19-homeless-new-york-city-subways-mta/
and they make quite lovely bedrooms (and bathrooms) for the homeless.
Same problem in London.
Auto
The NYC people cannot practice social distancing with their population density. One wise person said the elevators were being used by only two people at a time. That was supposed to be good enough. I cannot believe the elevators were wiped down with disinfectant after each pair rode one. The social distancing was and is impossible with so many humans crammed together.
Nomen est omen!
Greg, further to this impression of credibility … Dr. Birx is the same “EXPERT” who I am quite sure, on at least two occasions, has confused the words “hypothetical” and “theoretical”.
Interchanging these two words, for a “lay-person” is sufferable; however, FOR A PURPORTED EXPERT, IT IS NOT; where the respective use of these words has night-and-day differences in meaning … and such differences, by the expert, must be understood and communicated clearly. Experts must do better.
In short: theoretical is something which is an established and accepted practice because it has been time-tested, and, where, through broad application [experimentation] the particular notion has not been disproved; where, as a result, in general, a theoretical notion is something which can be “taken to the bank”. OTOH, very distinctly, hypothetical is something which has not necessarily been, through thorough testing, established and accepted by the greater academy; where, it is still considered to be in the experimental stage; where it remains a notion which could be one way or the other.
So, for the “EXPERT” Dr. Birx, who, supposedly, spends a good deal of time digesting higher level technical investigations, reports and etc., there should be absolutely no misunderstanding of reading and using these two words. Her misuse of these words really does give me pause.
PS: in view of the fact that all of these good people are under a lot of pressure to not make a single mis-step, I wish nothing but the best for Dr. Birx, all of the experts, and the entire administration, and, of course, we do not exist in a perfect world … especially a perfect grammatical world — Lord, strike me down for my many a faus pax — however, if they all want to convey a bit more credibility, I, for my one vote, suggest that they try a little bit harder.
Well … to be fair … Dr. Birx is, well … old. I think she’s just about as old as a confused Joe Biden, who sometimes has difficulty with words and sentences.
Come on guys. Is it also possible that she’s aware that the average listener may not understand the word hypothetical and chooses an imperfect synonym to be better understood? All she wants to convey there is that something is speculative.
Sheesh why the ultra-critical treatment?
She is speaking to ALL listeners, not only to your hypothetical ‘average’ listener.
To be better understood, use the correct terms without any assumptions that a ‘better’ word will impart ‘better’ information. Using the wrong word creates confusion (as is shown in this blog item) when clarity is required.
E.g. – look at the time and effort wasted by all contributors to this blog merely discussing which word is the correct one. Maybe one of us could have cured cancer rather than wasting time discussing word use.
Great, except for the very last part!
“Simply put, models play a role but should never be a primary driving force in setting important public policies”
So we do nothing for, what, 3 weeks until we have some data?
No we burn the witches and then check if we were right.
I forgot, do their ashes float or sink?
thats a strawman … we did have data a month ago about the at risk cohort … we could have truely locked down the at risk and the death count would be a fraction of what it is today …
nobody says do nothing …
your cure is turning out to be worse than the disease and everyone knew what the lock downs would do to the economy and thus the longer term health consequences (that has been studied … not modeled studied with real data) …
but the wise ones decided the math of lives saved vs lives lost was in favor of lives saved …
and the lives saved was based on cooked books and flawed models … IMHO ..
after a week they knew the models might be flawed …
after 2 weeks they really knew the models where flawed …’
yet they have not revised their lockdown orders … in many cases they have doubled down …
And why do the flawed models persist? Even as the REAL numbers started coming in (less fearsome than the projections) … the ‘model’ projections continued to be broadcast over and over and over WARNING that -last week was going to become … “The WORST week in human history!!!!!” Hint: it wasn’t.
You have to wonder WHO has so much invested in CRISIS!!!! … ? Oh? Wait! That question just made me into a “conspiracy theorist” … another phrase used to control the narrative
One of the effects of this shutdown, strict adherence to staying at home, and making it difficult to get supplies, including food, is that, over a month or two, some people are going to lose their nutritional balance.Lack of exercise and change in diet is going to have wide-ranging effects as well.
Vitamins A and D and zinc levels are important for the immune system and resistance to disease.
In addition, studies of states that imposed strict restrictions and states that did little or nothing show that only closing schools had a (slight) effect on the epidemic. Other measures had no effect at all. Masks appear to be the only effective strategy by itself.
We should shelter our health compromised every flu season and carry on our lives with normal responsible habits for not transmitting viruses, distancing, wash hands, cover when sneezing or coughing,
Another point: Fat people, people with heart conditions, and elderly people are less likely to be active and get out in the sunshine for exercise- leading to adverse effects on their immune systems,
In an emergency such as this, perhaps it’s better to go with policies/rules/regulations based upon the best available information rather than wait for more. But it’s always important to take assessment of whether what we did at the beginning of the emergency is still prudent. As better information comes forward, we need to act accordingly. The example of South Korea shows lockdowns are not necessary.
That being said, it’s foolish and irresponsible to act on the outcome of models without asking questions. It’s also foolish and irresponsible to rely on one-trick pony bureaucrat experts who are only concerned with a narrow focus.
Well, you could use common sense, rely on experts, and look at history…
Fauci-Birx
Faux berks or real berks, we need a computer model to tell which we are dealing with.
Actually, what we need are honest, uncompromised people who are competent and can think outside the box. Epidemiology is much, much more than just R(n) calculations and body counts. But virus-porn junkies can only focus on one thing – virus pathogenesis – while ignoring all other etiologies, e.g., environmental factors, life-style factors, iatrogenic factors, etc.
Case in point.
Ex-spurts use body counts to make Corona-chan look more deadly than she really is, while ignoring the fact that air pollution contributes significantly to risk of morbidity/mortality. That is a pathogenesis based on personal choice, not virus virulence. For example, when people drive unsafely on a safe road, and crash and die, their deaths aren’t due to a dangerous road, but to their choice to drive unsafely. Likewise, when people choose to live in polluted environments, they incur a risk factor via personal choice.
I have seen this argument used with various phrasings a lot lately, that deaths are being over-counted. I disagree. We all die eventually, so in all cases, any measure taken of any kind that changes WHEN a person dies is either extending life or shortening life. If it shortened life, then it was the cause of the change of state of the system. Arguing about cause being the virus versus co-morbidities is an attempt to minimize the real impacts of the virus. If an 80 year old with cdiabetes was doing fine on insulin and was not expeted by their physicians to die of it anytime soon (say this month, or this quarter), but that 80 year old gets coronavirus and dies of the combination, then the coronavirus caused the shortening of the individual’s lifespan, even if the medical indication was renal failure due to inflamed kidneys (exacerbated by the coronavirus). Thus it SHOULD be counted as part of the impacts of the virus. Arguing that a person chose badly before that point and caused themself to be more vulnerable is irrelevant. Current state is what it is. Each person’s current health is what it is. Or to quote one of my favorite authors “Is is.” When the coronvirus comes along and now exacerbates a condition that shorten’s someone’s life, it was the catalyst, and therefore the cause of the shortening of life at that point in time, even if the medical diagnosis is associated with the co-morbidity.
Not including co-morbidities enhances Corona-chan’s pathogenesis, because the patient wouldn’t have died otherwise. It most cases Corona-chan is merely a co-factor, not the main cause of mortality. So not including co-morbidities exaggerates Corona-chan’s pathogenesis.
And if a diabetes patient with Corona-chan dies because ACE inhibitors increased infection severity, or because ACE inhibitor treatment was stopped when patient went into ICU causing an inflammatory immune response leading to cytokine storm and/or pulmonary microvascular thrombosis, or if diabetes patient was intubated early and treated with a high PEEP protocol that caused ARDS, then we really can’t say that Corona-chan caused the mortality, can we?
It was still the catalyst, and therefore still should be considered an impact of the epidemic spreading. If the patient had not gotten the Coronavirus, that chain reaction wouldn’t have been triggered at that time and their life would not have been shortened.
Same can be said for flu and the common cold.
I have to agree with your stance on this Ed, most of us will develop one or other ‘condition’ as part the aging process. Modern medicine allows the majority of mature aged people to live a very good quality of life. If the coronavirus ends the life of a person who had a ‘managed’ condition then they died as a result of the coronavirus.
I am not ‘quite’ there yet but it is refreshing for someone to speak of mature aged people as though they still have something to contribute.
Why do you call it corona-chan?
Sounds like a Japanese diminutive
Sister to Ebola-chan
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/corona-chan
How did they measure such small increments in long-term exposure? Seems like more junk particulate science.
Could be, but it’s not junk science that air pollution causes respiratory illnesses and death.
A local housing project in my town is being DENIED … based on it being too close to a freeway (which project isn’t in CA?) and thus being “bombarded” with fine particulate matter. Yet it is the same distance from the freeway as our local High School. Funny thing! Nobody is calling for the High School to be shut down because of fine particulate matter.
Guess what? ALL human activity causes “fine particulate matter” … even farmers dishing their fields and burning crop stubble, etc. Rural, Suuburban, and Urban.
The vast majority of our population tolerates these elevated levels quite well … as our lifespans get longer and longer and longer (when adjusted for newly arrived diseased 3rd worlders, baby mamas who drink, smoke, and don’t take prenatal vitamins … and gangbang early death).
It’s interesting to see similarities between the devil CO2 and cvd-19.
Both are invisible bogeymen.
Both will cause untold global suffering and damage.
Both rely on predictive computer models which keep people terrified.
And the remedy for both problems is identical: Crush the western capitalist system.
Funny about that, huh?
COvid-2 CO2 COvid-2 CO2 COvid-2
There, you scared yet?
CO₂VID, the movie.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
You forgot the GIANT swirling plastic patch “the size of Texas” in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. BUT! … when logical minds called for simple cleanup via boom sweepers … the GIANT plastic patch suddenly became … “micro plastics” … EVERYWHERE!!! Aiiieeeee!!!! Invisible microplastics … that can only be seen by “scientists” … under an electron microscope. Sorry. You can no longer ask to SEE the actual GIANT swirling plastic patch. Because you aren’t a “scientist”. What? You don’t BELIEVE in science! ? How DARE you question science! Heretic! Burn him! He questions scientists! Burn him! He must be a … Christian! Feed him to an Endangered (threatened?) Lion!
****HOWSE: BILL GATES – FAUCI – BIRX – ID2030 – MEDICAL DEEP STATE – EUGENICS – ID2020 – EVENT 201 – JOHNS HOPKINS
video – 59 mins 52 secs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZeMhnBhnm8
+
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/06/12/vaccines-and-liberal-mind
The above in at least some part represents the intersection of RFK Jr. and the Bible Belt. Why not throw in some Coast to Coast and ask whether bigfoot can get COVID-19?
I don’t think I’d have much in common with this bible thumper but that does not detract from the network of Malthusian eugenicists , Fauci , Berx and Gates, seem tied to.
Unless you have some specific reason to question the information he is presenting , I don’t think shooting the messenger is particularly relevant.
Dude, do you have the intelligence and capability to go through RFK Jr’s website and refute any of it? I challenge you.
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/
C’mon – Bigfoot is the living model for “Social Distancing” ! ( ;>)
Get off my Forest!
Silly! We all know that’s what they’ve been doing in Area 51–cooking up Corona when not drinking it.
Well, the problem with all of that is so-called “climate scientists” are a bunch of money-grubbing crooks.
Murray is now claiming that things will be a nightmare if we begin to re-open the economy. I’m surprised that anyone pays attention to him, he reminds me of Bill Nye.
The Titanic is unsinkable, can I take your order for a new steamship?
Murray who?
The guy who predicted 2.2 million U.S deaths
Thanks.
It was incredibly irresponsible to publish that prediction without first looking into Murray’s bad track record. In essence, a grade-z researcher used crap data with a crap model and proved the first law of computing is GIGO.
It has been said that Trump has Fauci at his hip .
Does that mean Trump wears a Falci ?
😉
Graph paper, a pencil, French curve, and wet finger=just as good model as these guys playing with SAS.
Interpolate at will. Extrapolate at your own peril.
Unfortunately models are no longer used as a data testing tool.
They have become the Oracle of Delphi.
And belief in the Oracle must be unquestioned, because only witches don’t believe the Oracle.
Pretty soon we end up like a Monty Python bit.
Good point, in my circles we generally talk about the model as a hypothesis, and confirming the model is the equivalent of accepting or rejecting the hypothesis. It’s the lack of good-faith testing, and willingness to reject the model that’s absurd. If I didn’t reject a faulty, (fawlty), model my business would be toast in six months.
The sad fact is that selfish people have taken control and we cannot stop their plans.
“They know disaster scenarios sell.”
I would argue this describes the media. Scientists, by and large, do it because of political pressure.
Fortunately, the climate modelers can change the data to make sure that they match the model. It seems like a better way to do it than continually changing the model to match new data. /s (Really necessary?)
“However, the President, Vice President Pence, and Drs. Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx hastened to add, those high-end numbers are based on computer models. ”
you mean they are not based on time machines?
Yes, hence the “hastened to add” caveat.
But on the other hand, I guess since the data that’s often imputed [sic] into them is days/weeks/years old in many cases, that’s a kinda/sorta time machine wouldn’t you say?
BTW, enjoyed your comment the other day: “It’s a mosh pit – hit or be hit”
Mah!
“A study in the Journal of Medical Virology concludes that the internationally used coronavirus test is unreliable: In addition to the already known problem of false positive results, there is also a „potentially high“ rate of false negative results, i.e. the test does not respond even in symptomatic individuals, while in other patients it does respond once and then again not. This makes it more difficult to exclude other flu-like illnesses’
We’ve had a number of cases in my health region where initial negative tests were later proven false and the patient’s infected. This can, of course, lead to some otherwise avoidable exposures and risks to both patients and health providers. We should never make assumptions about the accuracy of a newly introduced test, especially when there has not been nearly enough time for validation.
In my state about 5 days ago they stopped calling fatalities “COVID-19 Deaths” and helpfully provided a shaded blue box explaining they are now counting anyone who died of “likely” symptoms or possible exposure, EVEN IF NEVER TESTED, as the new definition, “COVID-19 ASSOCIATED DEATHS.” The goal posts keep moving daily. This on the official State health dept. “dashboard.” What does this tell you? No surprise this state is deep blue right down to the marrow.
Our total number of Covid 19 of deaths total 5 here in New Zealand and all are Covid 19 associated deaths.
All five elderly people had health issues.
3500 tests yesterday of traced and sick people yielded 18 positives or suspect cases.
Our borders are closed except for New Zealand citizens returning and they all in isolation for 14 days then tested .
The shut down is working here but our tourism and hospitality are in dire straits and a lot of businesses will go to the wall even with government support .
We are entering our 3rd week of lock down and the case numbers are steadily dropping day by day .
Our farming and fruit and vegetable sectors are still working but our logging is shut down and a also lot of industries that the government deems are non essential such as building and construction .
It looks likely that restrictions will be eased next week to allow a lot of works to recommence before our winter .
Graham
I can supply a test kit with a guaranteed negative result. That means ZERO new infections, and we can lift all restrictions immediately. I wonder if China copied my invention already?
Richard, you hit it out of the ballpark.
THE TEST IS UNRELIABLE.
The manufacturer of the test states in their proper usage literature accompanying the test:
(paraphrase) “The test can give false positive for COVID 19 because it identifies other viruses.”
On NBC, Meet the Press, yesterday, Sunday, Mr. Todd beat the drum that testing needs to be increased, implying everybody needs to be tested. The word “testing” was repeated like a mantra, over and over.
That’s the game plan: claim we can’t even think of opening the economy until everybody is tested.
How long would that take?
Would they FORCE everybody to take the test?
And what would it show if the test is so flawed?
Something is rotten in Denmark.
Dr. Fauci, with all his inconsistent statements, foot dragging, and wildly wrong projections, STINKS to High Heaven.
Trump needs to fire Fauci, but you can only imagine how the MSM media would react (Fauci is their GOD).
THIS WHOLE THING STINKS.
Furthermore, you could test negative, get your Bill Gates-provided electronic ear tag proudly proclaiming same, walk in the supermarket and get infected 5 minutes later. All this “testing” means jack squat in the real world except to MAKE MONEY for whomever’s going to be making and administering the tests. Nice and useful for herding us into the appropriate chutes, however . . .
The common denominator throughout this whole “crisis” has been officialdom’s impulse to “DO SOMETHING!!!” even if it’s wrong, directly counterproductive, or not remotely based on the data.
This is what comes of teaching “feelings” over rational analytics in our academic institutions.
I agree with you about testing.
It only shows what existed at when the persons were tested.
The benefit of testing is it gives a snapshot of the situation.
Additional tests shows if the infected population is stable or growing.,
A problem exists with false positives. Supposedly the South Koreans tested people a second time if they showed had a positive test.
I hate to break it to you, but ALL medical tests are unreliable, in that all medical tests have false positives and false negatives. That doesn’t prevent us from using them, and with good reason: because if you don’t, the only alternative is to wait until everyone dies. And that test, at least, has few false positives (and the only false negatives are zombies).
So go on claiming that Fauci is wrong for trusting a test, but if you ask me he’s a voice of reason.
lots of voices of reason-
“In a serological pilot study, German virologist Hendrick Streeck comes to the interim result that the lethality of Covid19 is at 0.37% and the mortality (based on the total population) at 0.06%. These values are about ten times lower than those of the WHO and about five times lower than those of Johns Hopkins University’
In COVID-19 case I do not trust in models because we have not enough measurement-based data. The only reliable data is the number of deaths and the population of each country. Therefore I would use empirical cumulative death rates starting from the first death case. In this way, each country has been normalized to the same scale as Willis Eschenbach has done on your COVID-19 page.
Just looking at the curves of western countries, anyone can see that they have the same kind of death rate development. Well, almost all of them. It looks like the majority of countries will end up in the total death toll of about 350 hundred per million people like Italy or Spain or France. It means about 110 000 deaths in the USA.
The problem with your comment is that this is with lockdowns and other restrictions.
And we do have evidence that real, enforced lockdowns plus testing plus contact tracing can yield better results than the West: South Korea, China, Hong Kong and Singapore.
That might be true, but maybe not. We just don’t know. Another way of interpreting the data is that the lockdowns have delayed or slowed an nearly inevitable penetration of the virus into the population, and that population density is a major determinant of what proportion of a population will ultimately be infected. It will take a lot of after-the-fact analysis to sort this out.
The real difference between South Corea, Hong Kong, Singapore and New Zealand is that they had totally different strategy for COVID-19. They prevented the virus to enter their countries.
So maybe the only clear, undisputed take home fact of that crisis will be that controlling your borders is a plus?
No, that can’t be right.
Another factor in this is the culture of the population. The South Koreans were individually very willing to comply with the restrictions and quarantines.
Americans in different parts of the US show huge differences in their willingness to follow guide lines or rules.
Spain and Italy are likely the worse cases in terms of death rates. The U.S. rate is a fraction of theirs. So, likely, in this round, total deaths will be well under 100K.
110,000? color me skeptical.
Indications are that U.S. is now within a few days of peak, and current deaths are at about 22,000. Where are 90,000 more deaths going to come from AFTER the peak?
A snapshot of the curve slope at any given moment is NOT a predictor of the future.
And with each new dire prediction, the media leads with a mass extinction headline. The modelers only get traction with the complicity of a corrupted media.
Models are imaginary assumptions that rise to the expectations of a goal. Go into court with that one and see what a reasonable judge would do.
Models are the only way you can make predictions, unless you want to count wishful thinking.
Real scientists … don’t alter or “homogenize” raw or historic data
It’s called rewriting history.
Put bluntly, what climate modelers are essentially saying is this: We don’t need data… In other words:
“Data? We ain’t got no data! We don’t need no data! We don’t have to show you any stinking data!”
Those who control the past control the future.
Jeffery P April 13, 2020 at 7:59 am
Thanks for reminding me:
If you control the language, you control the argument
If you control the argument, you control information
If you control information, you control history
If you control history, you control the past
He who controls the past controls the future.” – Big Brother, 1984
FauxChi-Com
Facts don’t work on WUWT any better than they do anywhere else.
Any “computer model” of a parameter into the future is an extrapolation, and the uncertainty of an extrapolation increases as the time difference from the present increases. This is basic statistics, and cannot be avoided.
“And we have the climate data. We’ve got years of data. The data show the models don’t match reality.”
But we do not have all of the necessary data or even a way to gather it to make the models reliable. Look at Pat Frank’s paper. The cloud uncertainty, which is not reducible in any reasonable way, makes the model predictions meaningless. Literally meaningless-with no reliable information about future states of the climates of the world.
Good report by Paul and David. I remember commenting herein that when I managed a Research effort for one of the worlds famous billionaires, I insisted on every other Friday the entire research group participate in “Reality Check Friday”, where we not only discussed whether we were advancing scientifically, but also whether we were developing cost-effective techniques that represented higher reward potential and at lower costs. After all, if you could just send out a army of samplers and achieve favorable results, why bother refining Supervised Classification as an advanced technique? Now we see, played out before our very eyes, programs in favor which may destroy the economic ability to pay for any Covid-19 mitigation, effective or not. And, as authors and commentators note, the answer to everything seems to be destroy Capitalism and Trump along with it. Stay sane and safe.