Dr. Mann runs his mouth again, and this time I think he’s made a huge mistake. Personally, with what knowledge I have of libel law, I think this is actionable under Canadian law as well as US law, and I hope that Steve McIntyre takes Dr. Mann to task legally.
Here is a screencap:
The original Tweet is here.
UPDATE 10/8/19 9:25AM
It seems Mann is a bit worried about potential libel litigation in this new Tweet:
Maybe Mcintyre should file suit in DC courts – It might make a point the the judges
That will take forever – ask Mark Steyn!
If he sues, Steve should use the same Canadian Court and judge that just suffered Mann’s suit against Dr. Ball.
Frankly, Steve McIntyre is extremely well respected, even by alarmists.
Manniacal is just trying for cheap shots for his religious fanatics. Not even Mann’s fellow alarmists respect or trust Mann.
In other words, Mann is a useful idiot.
useful????
All idiots are wrong, but some are useless.
He may be a useful idiot, but he is also a public person. McIntyre is not.
It would be pretty difficult to sustain a claim that someone is a “professional liar”. That is a double claim: that one lies, and does it for a living.
Climate science has more back-biting and calumniating that any other profession save perhaps being a “reporter” in Hollywood.
Good luck Steve. If you need a fund, let us know. I’d like to see it prosecuted in Canada.
All idiots are wrong ‘n some are witless.
Mann comes across as a nasty piece of work.
Ya think?? This lying, conniving, lardy little Fraudpants has cost this world FAR too much already, yet still he is allowed to roam free. Inexplicable.
Mann should be tried for treason when this scam is over.
Yes, always….!
You be right for , one of things that came out of leaked e-mails , was just how often Mann would bully people on his own side.
Massive ego combined with a thin skin and poor abilities is always a toxic mix.
Frankly I have long considered that he will be thrown under the bus by the others in attempt to save themselves
RE Mann-made Global Warming:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/10/11/mcintyre-a-reductio-ad-absurdum-of-tree-ring-chronologies-as-useful-temperature-proxies/#comment-2492128
There is ample evidence on Steve McIntyre’s website climateaudit that MBH98 et al (“MBH98”) were false nonsense – you should not ask that it be repeated here. The is ample evidence that MBH98 was not only false, but fraudulent.
If you still have doubts, read the Wegman report. The North report was weaker, but under questioning, North agreed with Wegman’s conclusions.
Before Steve McIntyre’s skilled and diligent work, we already knew that MBH98 was false, because it eliminated the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age from the historic record, and these periods are very well-recorded.
Large portions of European populations died from cold, starvation and deprivation during the Little Ice Age. I am guessing from your name that these were your people; they certainly were mine. Let us show some respect for their suffering.
Regards, Allan
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/09/02/climate-scientist-michael-mann-congratulates-identity-thief-peter-gleick-for-receiving-his-carl-sagan-award/#comment-2447182
Repeating for Phil:
For more on the PUBLIC revelation of the Divergence Problem in 2006, see
http://climateaudit.org/2006/03/07/darrigo-making-cherry-pie/
Phil, Briffa is discussed by Steve McIntyre in his above 2006 post on ClimateAudit, but the true significance of the Divergence Problem, and the shifty way it was handled by Mann and others was not a matter of public knowledge until about 2006.
We owe a great debt to Steve McIntyre for his highly competent and tenacious efforts to reveal this warmist chicanery.
Mann’s early poor-quality tree-ring data eliminated the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age to depict the straight shaft of the Hokey Stick, but his later tree-ring data would have showed modern cooling with the blade of the stick turning down (the so-called “Divergence Problem”), so Mann deleted the modern tree ring data and instead grafted on modern surface temperature data to show the very-scary global warming message that he wanted to portray. Mann became famous, moved to Penn State and a tenured position, etc.
In summary, the Divergence Problem was “solved” thus:
Pure tree-ring proxies showed a downturn in modern temperatures, so Mann grafted modern surface temperature records onto the tree ring data to show global warming. Presto! Problem solved!
The IPCC loved Mann’s hokey stick and published it several times as an important piece of evidence in their “2001 TARpaper” – a steaming pile of deceptive warmist propaganda!
Now it was time to stampede the sheep!
References:
https://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/
2001 TAR Fig SPM-10b and other figures
https://judithcurry.com/2014/04/29/ipcc-tar-and-the-hockey-stick/
“Regarding the Hockey Stick of IPCC 2001 evidence now indicates, in my view, that an IPCC Lead Author working with a small cohort of scientists, misrepresented the temperature record of the past 1000 years by (a) promoting his own result as the best estimate, (b) neglecting studies that contradicted his, and (c) amputating another’s result so as to eliminate conflicting data and limit any serious attempt to expose the real uncertainties of these data.” – John Christy
The hockey stick is alive and well on Wikipedia. No surprise there. I looked up little ice age and they still have a hockey stick exaggerated to still make a hockey stick and still include MWP and LIA. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/09/01/the-great-climate-change-debate-william-happer-v-david-karoly-part-a/#comment-2446405
[excerpts]
…
The Wegman Report fully supported McIntyre’s work and declared that the much-touted (by-the-IPCC) Mann hockey stick was broken.
EXCERPTS FROM WEGMAN REPORT
The debate over Dr. Mann’s principal components methodology has been going on for nearly three years. When we got involved, there was no evidence that a single issue was resolved or even nearing resolution. Dr. Mann’s RealClimate.org website said that all of the Mr. McIntyre and Dr. McKitrick claims had been ‘discredited’. UCAR had issued a news release saying that all their claims were ‘unfounded’. Mr. McIntyre replied on the ClimateAudit.org website. The climate science community seemed unable to either refute McIntyre’s claims or accept them. The situation was ripe for a third-party review of the types that we and Dr. North’s NRC panel have done.
WHILE THE WORK OF MICHAEL MANN AND COLLEAGUES PRESENTS WHAT APPEARS TO BE COMPELLING EVIDENCE OF GLOBAL TEMPERATURE CHANGE, THE CRITICISMS OF MCINTYRE AND MCKITRICK, AS WELL AS THOSE OF OTHER AUTHORS MENTIONED ARE INDEED VALID.
A dispassionate analysis of Michael Mann’s ‘back to 1400 CENSORED directory will show beyond any doubt that the MBH98 hockey stick failed its verification tests and was published anyway.
Steve McIntyre has a copy of that directory. Mann slanders Steve at his peril.
It doesn’t matter that the hockey stick was reproduced by other crock-ridden reconstructions. Corroboration by other means does not remove the fact that the MBH98 stick itself was known to be false before it was published.
Pat,
That other studies have replicated Mann’s hockey stick means that they also replicated the temperature downturn in his proxy reconstruction after 1981, when global temperatures were on the rise. Hence, the other studies simply demonstrate that tree rings are useless thermometers.
Can someone post links to the papers at issue? McIntyre, like anyone, can make a mistake but for the last 14 years his reading and deconstruction of papers in this field has been as rigorous as it can get. I hope Dr. Gomez Navarro has his big boy trousers on.
The comment by Juan Jose is a on MacIntyre’s Twitter feed. MacIntyre had commented on Alarmists cherry picking graphs for a report. Apparently, Juan Jose thought he was lying.
Thomas: Thanks. I guessed that much. But SM raises a specific but Juan Jose offers a vague rejection but is pretty definitive about it. I simply wanted to validate Steve’s point.
I don’t understand what Mann thinks he will gain from this.
Attention.
He’s rapidly becoming a backwater in the global warming movement and his ego can’t tolerate that.
Last night saw a movie “One Last Dance” (Patrick Swayze)
There was a great line during a clash of attitudes.
Where’s there’s ego, I go! — Chrissa Lindh
Good to remember for other occasions.
👍👍👍!
David Yaussy said, “I don’t understand what Mann thinks he will gain from this.”
Mann is promoting his book. It’s linked to his tweet.
Regards,
Bob
I wonder if the book proceeds would be taken into account if MacIntyre were to sue for slander.
Mann is not only slandering him, he’s also looking to personally profit from that slander (through sales of his book).
Here is a better book than Mann’s book:
“A Disgrace to the Profession – The world’s scientists in their own words on Michael E. Mann, his hockey stick and their damage to science Volume I”
https://www.amazon.com/Disgrace-Profession34-Mark-Steyn-editor/dp/0986398330
this ^^^^^^^
Bob,
Perhaps so, as Steve hasn’t posted anything at Cimate Audit since mid-July and that was with respect to PAGES2K cherry picking back in 2014.
Will there be a crowdfunding to fund legal action, I’ll donate – just let me know.
Buying my copy now…
Any hope held out for Dr. Mann on the integrity front has just been dashed.
I feel confident now in calling him a complete idiot. And he should not care that I call him an idiot, since I am so unknown in professional circles that my commentary about him would have no harming effect on his reputation. And by the time he could prove that it might, I would be too old and feeble to continue disputing it, and so I could beg the judge to dismiss his case against me.
Mods, feel free to delete this, if it smacks as too libelous. I wouldn’t want to threaten WUWT with a Mann lawsuit.
I wouldn’t worry about WUWT.
Many years ago, there was a popular bumper sticker for those of us driving motor vehicles that could, at best, be described as “beaters”. It read, “Hit me, please, I need the money.”
Complete idiocy and lack of integrity are examples of defects you can accuse a public figure of suffering from without any fear of approaching an actionable threshold.
Please try harder.
Michael Mann is a very naughty boy. Oooh, I feel better now. Woooof!
You mean like Michael Mann using Mark Steyn right?
“Try harder”
OK, challenged accepted!
Michael Mann may be the very stupidest full-retard of a cretin to ever get handed a sheet of paper with the letters P, h, and D on it.
He is very certainly among the front runners for the prize for the worst and most prolific liar to have ever disgraced public discourse.
He is uniquely unattractive as well. In fact it has been noted that a single glimpse of his revolting visage is sufficient to dissuade a female from heterosexuality for the remainder of her life, and in fact if one wished to identify an uglier and more repulsive creature, one must peruse photographs of deformed hyenas and disfigured baboons.
His attire appears to have been selected by a committee of blind, homeless, Pittsburg-area second hand store vendors.
He has the manners of a French hotel clerk with crotch rash, and that is on his good days.
And on top of everything else, he smells.
I mean he smells bad.
Really bad.
Anyone who meets him in person finds themselves suddenly checking the bottoms of their shoes to see what they stepped in.
He could dramatically improved his breathe by gargling with fermented goat piss.
I mean, he literally smells like he had a rotten goat carrion pie for lunch and followed it up with a nice rancid monkey dung parfait.
Now, if I wanted to be mean, I could also give a list of his faults.
So you like him, really?
Sychophant!
So Brad, if that is not trying hard enough, let me know, and I will stop being so gentle.
Better, Nicholas, but you’re still praising him by faint damnation.
Why would you want to be mean, by the way? You’re an outlier. Be proud. Don’t apologize for a single tenth of a sigma. One day, deviation will be standard and it will be those with central tendencies who loathe and cut and hang themselves for the mediocrity they didn’t ask for and can’t control. And rightly so. Until that day we bide our time—we flukes, we freaks, we aberrant data points.
“Complete idiocy and lack of integrity are examples of defects you can accuse a public figure of suffering from without any fear of approaching an actionable threshold.”
In the U.S. Not in Canada. And even in the U.S., that “for hire” bit is actionable.
I call him a brat!
Dr. Mann sued Dr. Ball for defamation because Ball said Mann …
Mann then delayed and delayed, thus avoiding rigorous questioning and production of discovery. The judge pitched Mann’s case out because of that inexcusable delay.
IMHO, we are entitled to adverse inference. We can infer that Mann’s testimony and any produced discovery would have exposed him and his hockey stick as frauds.
If there’s a lawyer in the house who can correct the above opinion, I’m all ears. Also, as far as I can tell, Mann has missed his opportunity to appeal. It seems to me that he’s come as close to admitting that he’s a fraud as you can get without actually saying the words.
He then failed to file an appeal in time for the case he lost, this after huffing and puffing that he was seriously going to appeal.
He is a whack job!
“He is a wack job”
Sunsetttommy, somehow I feel you are insulting other “wack jobs” with this comparison, but that is just my opinion. 🙂
I’m no lawyer, but I think you could justifiably hold an adverse inference. If Mann wished to dispel that adverse inference, all he would have to do would be to release the data that he used in the creation of the “Hockey Stick” graph. Then, other scientists could look into the data and verify whether the produced graph was accurate or not. The fact that he refuses to release the data is telling.
I’m no lawyer either, so I’ll confine my comments to science and how it works.
Your comment is well-put and erudite. It’s also wrong.
Releasing his data isn’t “all Mann would have to do” to dispel the adverse inference, because the adverse inference is not that his graph was inaccurate—being inaccurate is not a crime in science. If it were, 99% of science papers (and 100% of climate-science papers) would have to be retracted.
Instead, I’d call it “all he HAD to do, 21 years ago, to dispel the adverse FACT that he’s not a real scientist—a fact that arises by definition from his refusal to disclose enabling details of his methodology—regardless of what those details would or wouldn’t prove once discovered.”
Almost nobody understands this (which is what Mann is counting on to get away with it in the court of scientifically-illiterate public opinion, whose verdict is the only one that matters in the climate debate). Refusing to show your working, when you’re a scientist, doesn’t create the suspicion or inference that you are covering up misconduct—it CONSTITUTES misconduct.
I don’t need access to Mann’s missing, mythical mystery-meat Methods section to know, to an absolute certainty, that his paper is unscientific grey literature.
The mere fact that he’s withholding it MAKES it unscientific grey literature. Into Pachauri’s dustbin of crap it goes.
Please make my day by becoming the first non-scientist ever to grasp what I’m saying here.
In politics, there are those famous results:
it != the crime
it = the coverup
I’m sure this isn’t new information for you. But science doesn’t work like politics. Science doesn’t work like anything that isn’t science. Science is special.
In science,
the coverup = the crime.
Geddit?
Citation- show yr workings or how else validation that yr data’s really data? As someone said @jo Nova, ‘Data badly taken is not data. It is only a number that fails to relate directly to the parametre measurement.’
I geddit! Always have.
The other classic example of a non-scientist “getting away with it” was Jones’ “Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it?”
beth, exactly—as always.
Newminster,
do you geddit because you’re a scientist, though? That would be cheating 😉
Can you also tell me the correct, MAD Magazine ‘Snappy Answers to Stupid Questions’ response to Phil Jones’ question?
If you get that right too, AND you’re not a scientist, I’ll be thrilled to award you the inaugural 2019 E. B. Keyes, Jr, Shield for Excellence in the Field of Getting It.
You don’t have to bother calling Dr Mann anything, all you have to do is laugh, his own actions have condemned him.
I once told an insurance salesman, “I am 100% protected from lawsuits. I have no assets and no insurance. I will never be sued!” He had no comeback for that.
Mr. Mann ought to watch this, instead of his reflection in the mirror:
Climategate ‘hide the decline’ in depth explanation by Stephen McIntyre 1/3
Priceless. The angry fraudster tweets more hate at McIntyre…and includes a sale-pitch for his book on Amazon.
As I can’t insert a picture I’ll try and direct you to a Twitter feed that I think Anthony Watts should read:
Michael Mann’s Twitter has a retweet from Gavin Schmidt with the line “My god these people are stupid” and a screenshot of Wattsupwiththat Twitter entry for “Alarmism exposed”.
At the bottom is a reply by Bobd which states: “Climate denial has been exclusive to sociopaths and the gullible for some time. WUWT may be the former, but their following is mostly the latter”
Of course ad hominem attacks are the final resort.
Ah yes, Gavin Schmidt…International Man of Mystery.
https://climateaudit.org/2009/02/04/gavins-mystery-man-revealed/
In German, “Endlösung”. But it developed in more than ad hominem.
He is now attacking this site.
My God these people are stupid
You wish, you beady eyed little fraud! LOL
so McIntyre hit a nerve and is spot on
I’m not surprised. These people scatter around the insult “shill” with reckless abandon. Almost anyone who dares to correct them is a “shill” in their eyes. To Mann and his people, Shill = liar for hire. They construct this climate hysteria in a similar way to how all politically correct think: everything in PC politics must be an escalation. Because most kudos goes to he/him/ze? using the most inflammatory language.
I think the issue stopping a defamation case could be the non-specific nature of the charge.
That’s rich, coming from Fraudpants Mikey Mann, professional and pathological liar, molestor of climate data, and future occupant of the State Pen.
If there is crowdfunding for taking this to court, I will certainly contribute.
You have to admit that the Mann has polish.
He needs it, some to polish his fake nobel prize, some to polish McIntyres shoes and the rest to polish his baldy little head.
Hey, easy on the “baldy little head”. I represent that fact.
Heh, the Piltdown Mann’s guilt is renowned.
====================================
+20
I’ve always preferred “Meltdown Mann”. It describes both what has happened to his “Hockey Stick” and his reaction to anyone who disagrees with him. Yet it still brings to mind what “Piltdown Man” really was, a fraud.
I have always liked calling him Michael “Piltdown” Mann.
Personal preference.
A doctored skull. A (statically) doctored tree ring.
Both result in the same.
Not “undoctored” facts.
C’mon, Moshe, let’s hear your farden’s worth.
===================================
Four fardens to the penny….
I read that the 30 days expired without Mann filing an appeal in the Ball case.
Really illustrates the problem. Mann has not been able to answer Mcintyre’s criticisms of his beloved Hockey Stick and rather than accept he is wrong, he lies, insults and lies again.
What’s interesting us he doesn’t say McIntyre us wrong! He simply says he proves Mann’s work is false for money. It’s still wrong Michael, whatever Mcintyres motives.
There are “culturally approved” methods for responding to scientific communications that hold opposing arguments or offer opposing proofs. Slander is not one of them. Slander is only used when there is no solid science behind one’s arguments and assertions…and it is never useful.
Any curious individual should wonder why a so called real scientist would “uncontrollably fly off the handle” about WUWT. I find it impossible to picture Richard Feynman responding in the immature fashion that Mikey Mann has.
If Mann’s fraudulent Hockey Stick had not been proven wrong, it would be on the cover of every IPCC Publication. Instead, it is found nowhere in the annals of non-fiction anywhere.
If Western Civilization survives the current onslaught from the Globalists/Socialists (that Mann believes he’s a significant contributor to…snicker…snort)…and Civilization ever returns to normal with adults in charge…Mann’s Hockey Stick will exist only in History Books in chapters relating to fraudulent politically motivated science.
The only reason for a book burning.
It should be kept as evidence informing the historians of coming centuries.
Doc, fraudulent politically motivated pseudo-science.
Mann did some early work on yttrium ceramics, prior to 1990, before entering climate science to its ruination. Since then, he’s done no science at all.
The hockey-stick and all other current proxy air temperature reconstructions: pseudo-science.
The air temperature record: an exercise in self-serving negligence.
Global air temperature projections: physically meaningless.
None of it is part of science.
Mann is following some advice for lawyers that I read somewhere.
Mann is a table pounder par excellence. For some reason, he reminds me of our old buddy Nikita. link
If the facts are on your side, pound the facts.
If not, pound the man.
If he won’t go down, pound his known associates, former girlfriends, Mum, etc.
He’ll roll over at some point, and that’s when you know you came out on top.
It’s important to keep pounding though, now that you’re dominant. If he can walk away, then he hasn’t been given enough of a pounding.
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
— Socrates
Mann has no answer to Mcintyre’s criticisms, so he resorts to slander. He has lost the debate.
From SGT to MM: “How dare You?”
Having neither accurate scientific models nor data to rely on, Michael Mann can only “pound the table” to try and distract attention. Such deliberate attacking the person rather than the argument is the epitome of scientific failure and loss. When will he ever learn?
Scientists that do not practice at least the minimal level of professional decorum should be politely “called out” by all scientists. Mann’s behavior is so obviously purely political and outside normal bounds of professional discourse that it does a disservice to all scientists who tolerate this behavior in complete silence.
Remaining silent could have grave long term consequences. This fraud will fall apart if the climate cools significantly which is not very unlikely. Those scientists silently tolerating this horrible behavior should share in the disgrace and ostracism and possibly even criminal prosecution that will be due (for using government funds fraudulently…if a future power swing allows for the truth to come out in a “deep audit”).
Plus, believers must know that this behavior works 180 degrees against persuasion…the persuasion that is required to bring those still skeptical “aboard”…the failure of which hurts an honest cause.
No honest scientist believes the models have any significant degree of accuracy (predictive skill). Even the IPCC has stated this.
Else…the Greatest shame in the history of bad science should befall them all. I will never forget.
Maybe he’s promoting his book to pay his legal cost in the Ball and Styne (sp?) cases?
Perhaps his backers have backed off? Left their pawn out there to fend for himself?
(Probably to much to hope for.)
Mike’s Twitter Trick?
Mike’s a twit. Fixed!
I would imagine that Dr. Mann has blocked Mr. McIntyre from his Twitter feed … Is it not against Twitter rules to attack someone that can’t respond because they are blocked?