Guest essay by Eric Worrall
h/t Dr. Willie Soon – According to British MP Michael Gove, cheap food damages the environment and encourages poor people to overeat.
True cost of cheap food is health and climate crises, says commission
Damian Carrington Environment editor
@dpcarrington
Tue 16 Jul 2019 06.00 BSTRadical change needed to make UK food and farming system sustainable within 10 years
The true cost of cheap, unhealthy food is a spiralling public health crisis and environmental destruction, according to a high-level commission. It said the UK’s food and farming system must be radically transformed and become sustainable within 10 years.
The commission’s report, which was welcomed by the environment secretary, Michael Gove, concluded that farmers must be enabled to shift from intensive farming to more organic and wildlife friendly production, raising livestock on grass and growing more nuts and pulses. It also said a National Nature Service should be created to give opportunities for young people to work in the countryside and, for example, tackle the climate crisis by planting trees or restoring peatlands.
“Our own health and the health of the land are inextricably intertwined [but] in the last 70 years, this relationship has been broken,” said the report, which was produced by leaders from farming, supermarket and food supply businesses, as well as health and environment groups, and involved conversations with thousands of rural inhabitants.
…
“Farmers are extraordinarily adaptable,” said Sue Pritchard, director of the RSA commission and an organic farmer in Wales. “We have to live with change every single day of our lives.
…
Gove said: “This report raises issues that are hugely important. We know that it is in the interests of farmers and landowners to move to a more sustainable model.” He added that the government’s agriculture bill would reward farmers with public money for public goods and a new “farm to fork” food review would look to ensure everyone had access to healthy British food.
The report was backed by Labour and the Liberal Democrats. The Green MP Caroline Lucas said: “This monumental report is a powerful and profound account of the ecological transformation of our food and farming system that we urgently need – and where we can start.”
…
Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/16/true-cost-of-cheap-food-is-health-and-climate-crises-says-commission
I’m less than reassured by Gove’s promise that everyone will have enough to eat after he abolishes affordable food.
Green energy Britain has an atrocious record of helping people suffering fuel poverty. Occasionally even young people in Britain die because they missed a meal once too often to ensure their children are warm and have enough to eat.
Yeh, let them eat cake.
What an ****hole
They don’t eat affordable food anyway, do they?
That case was because the claimant had her welfare cheques stopped. Something I’m sure Eric Worral would totally support, having described himself as to the right of Attila the Hun ( or was it Ghengis Kahn? ).
Most sane people are to the right of both Attila and Ghengis.
Both these men were basically Left Wing Tyrants, just without the kale and fake promises of universal everything.
The left defines evil as right wing. It matters not what their politics or economics were. They were bad guys, so they were right wing.
I thought Britain had an Excellent record of Helping People Suffer
Would you care to elaborate on that sunshine?
It’ called the NHS.
Greg, without welfare checks the world wouldn’t have got Harry Potter books and movies.
He’s as bumb as he looks.
Well done Gove! That’ll kill the poor and elderly off faster…..
That’s the whole point!
Which will help save their National health care system. A liberal win-win!
What an f***ing twit.
I’m not even sure Jonathan Swift could have come up with more ruthless satire to describe this. If only the good Dean were here to try, though. . .
It’s time to reprint “A Modest Proposal”.
…oooh imagine the thin skinned clueless SJW’s going berserk over that.
Ordinary people in the UK do not die because they cannot afford to feed themselves and their children. The case you link to was of a mother who had severe mental and health problems. That was why she died. You can argue that social services could have prevented her death and ensured she had appropriate help but that is another story.
The dying in such manner will begin for certain with this proposal. They are all fools.
People in the UK are dying because they can’t afford to keep warm. link So, let’s compound that by making it so they also can’t afford to eat, shall we.
And then tax the air they breathe for the Trifecta, commiebob.
If ‘ordinary people’ can afford to feed themselves ,why are there/ food banks ‘ in the uk . Trussel Trust figures for 2010-2017 show a rise from 41,000 in 2010 to 1.2millionin 2017.
If you provide food banks people will use them. It doesn’t mean they are needed. Many people use them so that they have more money to spend on booze and cigarettes.
Nice to see how much you care.
So you want them to drink and smoke more?
Caring means you ignore the obvious?
That’s not caring, that’s enabling.
It isn’t a question of caring. I am just stating the truth. I am British, I know what goes on here in my own country.
I am all for them drinking and smoking more as I have shares in tobacco and drinks companies and the dividends are very good.
Food banks and hunger . . right wingers (such as flock in droves to WUWT) refuse to see what’s right in front of their eyes because it doesn’t suit their views (our values can and do blind us to reality, as every thinking person concerned about accuracy in understanding should surely be aware) and the extreme left tends to overhype the situation, and thus both get it badly wrong (then both shout “evil” at the other side, like poorly educated kids, though both lots are as authentically blinded by their beliefs as the other – cf the right v the left on AGW and everything else, which drives me to despair).
But food banks and hunger are real in the UK, and the need for food banks is real – thanks to deliberate austerity and hostile environment policies driven by a succession of right wing governments whose primary concern is/was to drive down taxes levied on their rich supporters, too many of whom, in pursuit of vast wealth, hold the view that taxation is inherently a bad thing and should be avoided at all costs, despite it being necessary to the creation and maintenance of a civilised society, the benefits of which they’re very happy to partake of.
Links in support of the reality of hunger and the need for food banks are numerous and very easy to find for anyone who’s genuinely concerned about getting to the truth, instead of preserving their prejudices. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hunger-food-poverty-insecurity-uk-significant-growing-ministers-mps-dwp-environmental-audit-a8719176.html
I spent most of my working life in the food industry in the UK .
The cost of food in the UK is amongst the most competitively priced in the developed world.
I would change Many to some…
most are damned grateful, as am I when I rarely get to a foodbank . it helps me be able to pay a phone or powerbill.
Rural people have very little access to such assistance because in our area the local shopowners who add a min of 1$ onto every homebrand cheap product over the avg prices for same out of town(we are captive without cars and a large percent of infim elderly) raise merry hell that theys go broke if the pensioners got the odd cheap box of goods elsewhere.
I sure cant afford to be paying $7 a kilo for broccoli at best thats 5 serves, at a food bank ALL veg are free and yes theyre a bit older spotty or limp but at least they semi-fresh veg . they wont make a crunchy salad but they do make soup or a stew.
I wonder if Alan and others like Gove have ever actually managed on a pension thats 1/3 of supposed avg income? or unemployment which in Aus hasnt risen in some 25yrs while rents have tripled ditto transport and power by 400% etc
I really think that a MINUMUM of one yr on such income in a nasty cheap rental or share with NO access to support from rich mates or families should be required of these people desirous of inflicting their ideas on the least able to defend themselves.
“I really think that a MINUMUM of one yr on such income in a nasty cheap rental or share with NO access to support from rich mates or families should be required of these people desirous of inflicting their ideas on the least able to defend themselves.”
Excellent idea!
Please don’t be so stingy with your punctuation. It is very difficult to read your posts. If your post is difficult to read it doesn’t get read, and you have wasted your time.
Suggestion: walk away from your post for a couple of minutes before hitting the “post comment” button and re-read what you have posted.
“I sure cant afford to be paying $7 a kilo for broccoli at best thats 5 serves, at a food bank ALL veg are free…”
Nothing is “free.”
For a while we were on one of those ‘food banks’ it got food perfectly good food from grocery stores that they were throwing away for various reasons. I finally had to put my foot down and say ‘no more!’, because we were getting too much food!!!
If you provide food banks people will use them.
And all Argentinian Steak Houses have to close. Immediately.
Alan Haile,
“If you provide food banks people will use them. It doesn’t mean they are needed. Many people use them so that they have more money to spend on booze and cigarettes.”
Food banks exist because people would starve to death without them. You claim (in a later post) to know what’s going on in this country, but clearly you do not.
I have had no income for three or four years, because the state decided I was fit to work when I was not. Cutting off the benefit of someone with depression is a great wheeze, since there’s a good chance that, as in my case, they will lack the willpower to fight back and make an appeal. If my elderly mother were unable to support me then I would be homeless and dependent on food banks to survive.
You forgot “and heat their homes”.
I am not sure what this British MP is eating but it can not be anything good. His brain is completely gone.
Doesn’t he look rather prosperous?
He looks rather pompous, which is almost the same.
Prosperous? Preposterous!
He’s not just an MP, he isSecretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.
I doubt he will hold that position in a month’s time. He is a staunch remainer and Johnson has said he is going to clear the cabinet of remainers. (Of course it is still possible Johnson won’t be prime minister.)
Gove was one of the leading figures in the leave campaign before the referendum. I think he would be amazed to see himself labelled as you have.
Right Honorable Michael Gove MP was appointed [b]Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on 11 June 2017.[/b] Presumably in reward for stabbing Johnson in the back (metaphorically) and installing Teresa May as Prime Minister.
There’s a photo of him listening intently to Greta as she instructs MPs. Worse: he’s talked with Extinction Rebellion. What a dangerous Minister for the Environment he is. Apart from listening to their orders, I don’t understand what Gove expects to learn from anti-industrial fanatics. Does he believe hobnobbing with dark greens will rub-off positively on him? In my mind he’s now the most dangerous Tory MP; ahead of May & Stewart even!
As John Stuart Mill is reputed to have remarked (in one way or another): “Conservatives [Tories] are the stupid party.”
This item explains exactly why.
Larry in Texas
As John Stuart Mill is reputed to have remarked (in one way or another): “Conservatives [Tories] are the stupid party.”
Hmm, not to contradict you, and I’m no student of philosophy or government policy, but coincidentally, I am reading JSM’s “On Liberty” right now. Haven’t finished the book and haven’t read anything else he published, but haven’t seen that quote or anything like that. Would appreciate it if you pointed me in the right direction.
“I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any hon. Gentleman will question it.”
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill
Keep in mind that conservatism and liberalism in the European sense often have little to do with how those terms are used in the States. Remember that this is the continent that considers national socialism to be right wing.
On Liberty is excellent and worth close study. The quote you refer to comes originally from Representative Government. “What he really said was that “the Conservatives are the stupidest party,” stupider, that is, than the Liberals, the super- lative being in this connection much less offensive than the positive degree. The passage in which the phrase occurs runs as follows :—” Well would it be for England, if Conservatives voted consistently for everything Conservative, and Liberals for everything Liberal. We should not, then, have to wait long for things which are eminently both the one and the other. The Conservatives, as being, by the law of their existence, the stupidest party, have much the greatest sins of this description to answer for; and it is a melancholy truth, that, if any measure were proposed on any subject, truly, largely, and far-sightedly Conservative, even if Liberals were willing to vote ‘for it, the great bulk of the Conservative party would rush blindly in, and, prevent it from being carried.”— (” Representative Government,” p. 138, note, first edition.)
J K Galbraith’s suggestion that the history of conservatism has been a search for a moral philosophy that justifies selfishness, is also worth bearing in mind if trying to understand the impetus behind right wing politics.
StandupPhilosopher July 18, 2019 at 10:12 pm
Keep in mind that conservatism and liberalism in the European sense often have little to do with how those terms are used in the States. Remember that this is the continent that considers national socialism to be right wing.
____________________________________
If national socialism is left wing than Ku Klux Clan members must have voted for Hillary.
The KKK was the special action wing of the Democratic Party. If you look at what the NSDAP ran for office on, it was quite leftist, with the Strasser brothers and Roehm. If one goes strictly on what they did in office, then the Soviet Union was not leftist by some standards, with the purge of the Old Bolsheviks.
Tom Halla, nothing new under the sun:
https://www.google.com/search?q=roman+empire+socialist+brothers+murdered&oq=roman+empire+socialist+brothers+murdered&aqs=chrome.
The world’s a better now. Weigh in.
“Tom Halla July 21, 2019 at 2:09 pm
The KKK was the special action wing of the Democratic Party. If you look at what the NSDAP ran for office on, it was quite leftist, with the Strasser brothers and Roehm. If one goes strictly on what they did in office, then the Soviet Union was not leftist by some standards, with the purge of the Old Bolsheviks.”
Michael Gove is highly intelligent. Unfortunately he is also highly ambitious. He allows that ambition to dominate and will follow almost any populist cause if he thinks it will gain him a following. It should also be remembered that his wife, Sarah Vine, a witty and skilful leading journalist is almost certainly politically far to the left of her husband. Even cabinet ministers can be swayed by their wives.
How about a challenge for him. Issue him Food Stamps (or whatever they are called in the UK) and have him live ONLY on what he can purchase with those food credits. Don’t issue what a family of 4 would receive, but what ONE person living at the poverty level would receive in their system. He has to purchase any normal item that a regular person would purchase in a grocery store, that includes toiletries and other ‘Non-Food’ items (paper towels, dish soap, etc.).
Also, no cheating and eating at parties and ‘work lunches’. Let’s see if he can show us how it’s done.
Practice what you preach, else, go pound sand…
That’s what happens when you try to live on “nuts and pulses.”
Probably all the cocaine he snorted
BSE-infected beef, apparently.
Organic farming is a renaming of Biodynamic Agriculture, which grew out of the flight from reason in Germany in the early 1900’s, a part of the movements that also gave rise to the Nazi party. Like the Hitlerites, the principles do not bear close examination, which is probably one of the reasons the Party endorsed biodynamic agriculture.
Similarly, both are misanthropic “blood and soil” mysticisms, and should be treated with equal contempt.
And adopted by the Royals – see the 2015 leak of Their Royal Heilnesses. No wonder Prince Charles’ farming fancies are so quaint, pronouncing only 18 months to save the planet to the entire Commonwealth.
Unbearable examination, indeed.
The best way of reducing an environmentalist to speechless fury is to point out the N@zi origins of the Green movement in 1930’s Germany.
One of the pioneers in “biodynamic agriculture” was the Artamanen-Bund:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275144794_Organic_Farming_in_Nazi_Germany_The_Politics_of_Biodynamic_Agriculture_1933-1945
Incidentally the Artamanen-Bund was where Heinrich Himmler and Rudolf Höss (the commandant of Auschwitz) got to know each other.
Not just them – quote Heidegger in any Uni and face an irrational mob of professors. Heidegger, Hitler’s ghost writer, and the greenest of all, (an article at WUWT by Schellenberger recently had it all), taught as philosophy?
Heidegger, blocked from academia after WWII because Carl Jaspers denounced his technique of “mesmerising” being dangerous for students.
Now look at Trump’s 4 Women of the Apocalypse, or poor Greta, and notice the glazed look – they have been mesmerized. Some of the other mimsies (miserable flimsies) of Climate notoriety have the same look. This goes way beyond mere “groupthink”. This is the way it worked in the 1930’s. Even Prince Charles is trying his hand at it with the 18-month countdown.
Organic farming requires about 50% more land to produce the same quantity of crops as high-technology farming. A switch to organic farming in the UK would destroy a large fraction of the remaining open arable lands.
There have been many studies showing that organic farms support a more varied ecology than high-technology farms. However, I’ve never found a study comparing the lost wild lands habitat from organic farms compared to high technology farms.
Yes, organic farms have a more diverse ecology, but they use up 50% more arable land. That arable land is lost to the original wildlife. When lost wildlife is included in the calculation, which form of farming is the greater imposition?
And of course farmers can’t use tractors. All the pulling should be done by horse. Now loads of people will find work in agriculture.
I don’t know if you will be able to get PETA to agree to using horses to pull plows.
If we regressed to that level, it would be gangs of forced labor pulling the plows.
Yup. On balance organic production yields about 2/3 of what conventional does. That’s an average. It can also yield zero, which is remarkably rare in conventional agriculture. Add it all up and you need 50% more land to yield the same (quality is a different question altogether).
We had a prof that used to tell us during undergraduate agriculture courses that food was too cheap. We were all rather astonished given we were living on about 1/10 of the amount of income he was at the time. We paid rent and tuition, then food, then transportation and when we had enough left over beer came into the equation. But I’m not from the leased car, new phone/laptop each year and $8 latte 2x per day generation either.
The figure for crop yields under an organic farming system is nearer 50% than 2/3 of conventional.
You must take account of the smaller area of arable crops as you have to have a fertility building crop such as clover for a couple of year in the rotation..
Then you have to take account of shorter runs of arable crops as the amount of available nitrogen in an organic system is lower. (no nasty nitrogen fertiliser is allowed).
Minimum tillage is not feasible with an organic system as Roundup is not allowed, so you have to use conventional plough based systems to prepare seedbeds.This will increase the amount of fossil fuel you use.
(If you decide to go back to a horse powered farming system to avoid using fossil fuels, don’t forget that you have to feed them, using a good proportion of the crops you have grown – hay, oats and beans).
a 3mth max buckwheat crop or some clover used as green manure adds enough nitrogen,
rockdusts and some extra dolomite maybe for some crops.
no till still does 2 or 3 runs spraying crap
so the same runs but discing in the green manures then turning to plant is same useage
teff is a hugely good horse and other ruminant feed and can be grazed fairly heavily in short periods as stripgrazing, then allowed to grow to be harvested for very highpriced fodder for elite horses if you wanted to – oats do ok if grazed lightly as well then allowed to grow out
the big issue is the new hybrid seeds for wheats barley oats are aklso highly dependant on very high chem fertiliser
old grains arent
I’ve read on this blog many times that UK farmers are paid NOT to grow crops. So which is it? Do farmers farm, or do they not-farm?
Some farm crops. Some farm subsidies.
Organic farming has never been anything other than a means of virtue-signalling for idiotic middle-class people with more money than sense.
no Graeme organic farming was what fed everyone as a matter of course for centuries unti after the wars they needed to find new uses for all the chemicals they had prior used to maim and kill with
see The Albrecht Papers for some edification;-)
You’re right, of course., ALL farming was organic centuries ago in Europe, by necessity. Famines were common, and a large percentage of the population was malnourished.
You want to return to such a world?
Please use punctuation. It was invented for a purpose.
I know it sounds weird,,but having seen paddocks treated with biodynamic mixes next to the usual ones, there really IS a vast difference and the bio is the winner, its not hokum its utilising bacteria to kickstart the soils own biota, and microdoses work.
Actually, I have seen biodynamics practised near Melbourne and there is a difference. The look and feel of the places is different from conventional ones and very vibrant looking. Dunno why!
Perhaps MP Gove should step down and start his own farm to show us how it is done.
No he should be on 2500 calories a day and all eco friendly stuff, no lavish things like alcohol etc.
He’s a fairly small man, so 1,000 cals should do. (Saw him once at a Conservative meeting in Gloucestershire).
He was quite good at the Education Dept. but seems to have changed a lot since then. (
In education he had all the right people screaming but they had a word with his boss Call Me Dave and then he was dumped.
And I think Gove’s constituents should be the first guinea pigs in a pilot program of this ludicrous proposal. Their food prices should be jacked up by about 10,000% or more so we can witness the effects.
Seldom have I seen such enthusiasm in Britain to out-Nazi the Nazis.
As one of this scientifically illiterate know nothing MP’s constituents I suggest that he and his well fed expense fiddling colleagues should be the guinea pigs for this study. One should understand the the political class in the UK are suffering from an extreme case of BREXIT Political Derangement syndrome. It is time that an end is put to their suffering. A forced attendence to at a necktie party
in Parliament Square should do the trick nicely.
Heading back to the feudal Royal times where venison was protected. Prince Charles, known for quaint farming fancies, declared this week the Commonwealth (his sandbox now) has 18 months to save the world. i.e., 1 US election cycle more, Greta move over. Chatham House declared the “special relationship” will not survive another Trump admin. They are in full flight-forward.
Right now van der Leyen, the new EU commissioner declared something called the Green Deal (GND?).
This makes Juncker look look sober.
You couldn’t make this stuff up .. “Qu’ils mangent de la brioche”.
Loydo would be all over this in support bless his little lefty heart.
I really don’t think it’s how much we eat, so much as the quality of the food itself.
“Then the Birmingham Mail reported that pupils in the city are “stockpiling” food in their pockets at school to avoid starving at the weekend.”
A mother of four dies of exposure because she can’t afford to pay her heating bill? Kids grab food at school because they’ll get nothing at home on weekends?
What in the freaking, blithering world is wrong with the people running that ridiculous excuse for a government?
Yeah, socialism is REALLY the cat’s meow when it comes to government, isn’t it?
That’s the Tories actually, “conservatives” . But more precisely that is the Cabinet Office, the permanent bureaucracy known as the Civil Service, with chief Sir Mark Sedwill, the true King of England, with so much powerful portfolios. This is known in the USA as “deep state” or “establishment”.
Makes “socialism” look flimsy.
It’s socialism, no matter who is behind it. The nanny state is a socialist state. It may hide behind the “conservative” label, but that’s a weak facade.
Now that’s not a polite way to refer to Gove’s Chin
But so, so accurate…
It was hugely successful in Venezeula now everyone has the same living standard.
Actually, the poor in Venezuela can purchase a box of staples, heavily subsidised by the state. A small box containing cooking oil, rice, pasta and some vegetables costs less than a dollar. Will the right honorable gentleman propose such a subsidy? All organic of course!
About a dollar if you have 1,600 bolivars(= $1 us). That is according to the BBC in Feb 2019.
Also note the foods they are being forced to eat. Pulses! I can see where he got his plan from.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-46999668
Note most of the data is OLD.
Also assuming the store hasn’t been emptied out already.
People who have these problems always have other problems too – debts and addictions being the two most common. Welfare provides sufficient amounts for families to buy food otherwise.
IMO most poor people are not obese from overeating, but from lack of quality protein which is compensated for by consuming excess carbohydrate, fat and sugar.
“Safe, traceable, affordable food”? Insert “expensive”.
Restrict the inexpensive, plentiful low-grade fast food that is at least bringing some survivable nutrition and calories to the masses. Replace it with limited, expensive ‘quality’ food beyond the reach of low income folks and there’s a blueprint for genocide right there. Heating bills will speed the process.
Malthus would be proud of him.
Those are all good answer, but the real question is this: why is there no system of food pantries, which are all over the place in the USA, which support people whose income puts them into the indigent bracket?
If the UK government and its idjit ministers actually gave a flying fRt in space about the British people and started something like food pantries, this problem might be lessened. It’s disturbing enough that the UK has a larger population of people on welfare than the US does, and the cost of heating a home is beyond their reach. That is inexcusable. But the mother of four who died of cold exposure missed her “assessment” appointments? Why didn’t the social worker go to her? Are those civil services rats really that lazy? I have to believe they are.
I see Mr. Gove as a self-important noonch whose knowledge of “farming” is more oriented toward feeding wildlife than it is toward feeding the people of Britain. I hope he finds out what it’s like some day to truly go hungry. What a despicable jerk!!!!
We call them food banks in the UK, the number is increasing year on year.
I’ll accept that, Steve, but WHY ARE KIDS GOING HUNGRY? WHY????
I don’t want to stereotype, but when excessive taxes come to bear on things like cigarettes and alcohol, parents often take money reserved for kids food and use that to combat the extra expenses of smoking, drinking and drugs etc. This doesn’t mean people who smoke and drink starve their kids, but those who are addicted to such substances aren’t deterred by extra taxes which are supposed to stop their habits, but they simply have less for eating and other things like school books and clothing.
There is an interesting precedent for that type of behaviour: one Karl Marx Esq., living in London some 150 years ago. He never stinted the on the things which really mattered to him, namely fine wines and Havana cigars. Meanwhile, his wife and children were always poorly-dressed and often hungry.
Okay, Ozwitch, but a food pantries (or in the UK, food banks), the food supplies are free. There’s no excuse, in my view, for kids to not get what they need. In the county I live in, there are over 200 food pantries that anyone can go to if needed, no questions asked.
I just find the whole matter disgusting.
in Aus you are allowed $40 to spend in a foodbank a fortnight, the prices on most goods are about 1/3 of normal shop prices. oddly things like grains and flours are the higher priced good there which has me puzzled as theyre a food stretcher and homemeade cakes etc are far healthier ..if you can manage to cook ONLY on weekends using the over to get half the weekly dayrates of power prices OR cook and do houswork needing appliances(if you can afford them) after 11pm to 7am.
when you take a minimum of 100 to 150 a week for a really nasty one rm bedsit/flat in a distant suburb(split it to 125 and honestly you cant even rent a campsite /caavan for that!)
then add power at 3 a day 42 a fortnight- that would NOT allow heating by electricity or gas at all. if you did add another 30 min for gas and 70 for power
fares for the 10 jobs a week your’e forced to apply to even with discounts 20 a week is likely
but we could assume some online apps to lower that
then even a mobile cheap plan min data and maybe a 10 a fortnight net plan
20 for both
theres 320ish from the 500 a fortnight (with no heat/cooling)
the massive 180 left? haircut maybe 2 mthly if you cant DIY or find a place in a freecut by student hairdressers set up add 40 for a woman 20 for a bloke
clothes ,shoes, toiletries cleaning products and food from there.
this assumes you have working appl;iances of whats required and that nothing breaks down the laptop doesnt need a battery and you dont have to buy expensive lightbulbs and have a bagless vac cos the bags are 15 a set of 5 and that chews your income even if you do split empty and restaple them to add lifetime to them.
people with kids get priority for all resources and even they struggle. singles and older singles are just ignored as much as possible when they go to ask for help.
been there done that, and I did it when times were better than now and it wasnt at all fun or something you want to continue doing.
and of course if you had a bankcard or other debt before you hit the social security then youre stuffed before you begin.
“What, me worry!” AEN
I haven’t seen any “cheap” food in the UK. Poorly prepared from dubious ingredients, almost inedible stuff there was at least twice more expensive than in the USA.
Bizarre statements in this report. Anyone who actually goes out into the British countryside can’t help but notice how wonderful it looks. Beautifully green, clean, wonderful air quality, very well structured and planned. Truly a green and pleasant land. This idea that it’s in decline, facing an emergency, or in some way is affecting the health of the population is an absurdity. That is the narrative of truly evil people who would have us all grovelling in the dirt. That is their aim.
Starving, that’s how Mao killed a large percentage of the 35 mio people between 1958 and ’61 in a genocide frenzy
A bunch of Lefties and Greenies produce a report and everyone pretends its not biased.
And pretends “healthy” food is somehow expensive in the UK – it is not. I can buy a banana for 14p, an apple or a sweet potato for 35p, a carrot for 6p. A pear is all of 41p. This is yet more middle-class snobbery imposing itself on everyone else.
Good luck getting those bananas and sweet potatoes when we go zero carbon, though they’ll likely be taxed out of your diet way before we get there.
I guess this is one way to reduce the population of Britain.. Starve people to death by making food unafordable to the elderly and very young… Way to GO…. morons..
Where do these people get their flawed logic? (or should I say political agenda) Make energy more expensive… Make food more expensive… And you serfs, can just die.. we dont need you..
Does anyone else find this dehumanizing by the left repugnant?
They pretend to pay us, we pretend to eat.
Someone once made a modest proposal to solve this problem.
Look, I think I have just brought the green terror to a shuddering halt which will also bring people like Gove to heel and possibly changed world history.
We were in Tavistock yesterday, a pleasant market town in Devon and as we arrived we realised something was up, as it was swarming with people, crash barriers and police.
Going into town we learnt that Prince Charles And Camilla were paying a visit. Realising our obligations to scepticism we positioned ourselves in a strategic place at the back of the crowd under some nice shady trees.
As he drew up I shouted ‘We have more than 18 months to save the planet sir. Nothing is happening with the climate.’
It may be that I actually said it very softly rather than shouted as there were a LOT of police around. But I mouthed it directly at him and I am sure he looked at me, nodded, then raised his hand to acknowledge my devastating point. Or he MIGHT have been giving a royal wave.
We bumped into his cavalcade again an hour later as he was leaving and again I shouted (or perhaps whispered) that ‘the climate was perfectly normal’ . I am pretty sure he again nodded and touched the minder on his arm and whispered to him something along the lines of ‘I have obviously been wrong all these years, thank goodness tony has put me right’ or PERHAPS he may have been telling the police to ‘take out that annoying sceptic hiding under the trees.’
We shall see, but I think my intervention was highly significant and Charles was deeply impressed with the force of my argument. If I don’t post here again though you will know that the green blob has silenced me
tonyb
Isn’t a conversation about weather a great English tradition?
Careful with that free speech thing in England.
Don’t want to end up like Tommy Robinson.
Will you be hotbunking with Tommy Robinson between rounds in room 101?
So long, tonyb. It was nice knowing you…
That Gove looks as insane as Bernie and AOC.
he looks like someone whacked him from behind with a 4×2
pity they didnt
Socialism – empty stomachs for empty heads.
Socialism very much works this way. Regulate to do whatever (here to get rid of ‘too cheap’ food).
Welfare state like Sweden adds the means of regulation which is mostly taxes. And when people don’t have the money to buy stuff, they’ll subsidized in form or other. Then, because the tools are already at hand, it’s redone. And redone. The end is a society, where the rare rich are free to choose if they keep appearances. The middle class is required to obey and the poor enjoy because they are limited as much as the middle class.
Sadly, this reads like a return to Eugenics. Population control by eliminating cheap food. What has happened to our friends in Britain?
So we must all have unaffordable food which by it’s description no one could buy. So following on we must make cars unaffordable along with car fuel, and air travel etc. All so we can cure obesity and pay for the climate change hoax.
So What? Take away the affordable food and let them starve because they can’t afford your food?
How ridiculous and unfeeling. Sick of these pompous politicians.
The real nauseating face of the Malthusians appears unmasked :
– starvation, death by cold weather and by lack of affordable energy, in order to decimate the population (“bomb” as wrote the psychopath in chief, Paul R. Ehrlich).
Malthusians do not even need to stay hidden anymore behind all this bunch of useful idiots (greens, vegans, climatistas, leftist, opportunistic fraudsters …) : even the conservatives adopted their credo, at least in the UK.
Michael Gove is in urgent need of a brain transplant but the NHS has failed him in this regard. The waiting list stretches into the next century.
The political classes in Britain have never been so obviously deluded and out of touch.
This isn’t just a problem for the Tories … I can’t remember the last time I heard anyone from the ruling party in Scotland. They just don’t seem to understand that many people like me are no longer watching programs nor viewing internet sites where these politicians appear (except as Josh cartoons).
As for ‘Cheap Food’….food in the UK already costs twice what food costs in Australia. Meat, Fruit, and vegetables are at least twice the price now, and the quality is better and fresher in Australia. Michael Gove should study the damage that socialism has done to the British way of life since WWII.
I wonder if that view depends on the exchange rate Nicholas Tesdorf?
The last few visits I was rather struck by how cheap most foodstuffs were compared with Australia!
I wonder what Jamie Oliver (famous British cook) would say about this?
Britain has come a long way from the Watford Gap (hit song about bad mororway grub).
It would be much better if the Cabinet Office recommended good cooking, yet Gov’t fingers in the dinner is not to be recommended – they have been counting loot at the greasy till.
I wouldn’t want Gove’s fingers anywhere. Odious little man.
Hopefully Boris will sort this Gove fellow out and give him his marching orders on half rations.
In france they did away with their kings and that was called regicide. Fathers = patricide, brothers = fratricide.
I’m sure Michael Gove should not be tinkering with the countryside.
Green austerity. It’s coming to a place near you. Just don’t expect the left to utter a word against it.
Until “sustainable” is clearly defined this means nothing.
Gove doesn’t have a clue.
I was going to end my comment since it speaks for itself but:
I’m a working class lad, never been wealthy and an ex-labour voter.
The whole idea that the sort of food people with my background eat is cheap is BS.
I’ve seen the queues outside the takeaways for fish and chips at £7 a pop or £28 for a family of 4. I’ve seen the shopping trolleys full of frozen pizzas at £5 a pop and the 6 pack of 2 litre coke that makes up the diet of people “like” me. Add 200 cigarettes and 24 packs of beer and you have a typical night in for a few people that I used know.
I’ve argued with people “like” me in the pub, explaining to them that they can eat cheaper if they just bought fresh food and actually did some cooking.
For example, a couple of pieces of salmon cost £3 from Sainsbury’s. Throw them in the oven for 15 mins of so with a bit of salt, pepper and lemon, add some veg and potatoes and you have a simple dinner for 2 for less than £5, and it’s not difficult.
Yeah, but that involves cooking they say.
They’re obese, I’m not.
According to the cardiologist, I have the heart of a 25 year old athlete.
But perhaps you are a 25 year old athlete, we don’t know 🙂
LMAO
I’m well into my sixth decade
Well said MangoChutney,
We have the same problem in New Zealand .
Obesity and other diseases caused by to much carbohydrates and sugar and lack of exercise and always alcohol and smokes that have to be purchased with the groceries.
As a general rule of thumb organic food production produces around half the output and people are prepared to pay more for organic food .
Forty years ago I recall a presentation from a professor at Lincoln University at a conference who gave a talk on organics versus normal food production and he said that the growing plant does not differentiate between phosphorus potassium or nitrogen from out of a bag or from a manure pile .
What is fed to animals can make a difference to their milk or meat but generally I would defy anyone to pick the difference in taste and nutrients between organic and normal food in a blind taste test.
Graham
A number of blind tastings have been performed to compare “organic” and traditionally-grown fruits and vegetables. To everyone’s surprise the organic produce usually scores below the ordinary stuff.
Penn and Teller did a documentary about that and their results matched your comment.
> I have the heart of a 25 year old athlete.
Does s/he know it’s missing?
I ate his heart with some fava beans and a nice Chianti
and the power bill to use the oven/stovetop?
I used my oven for 3hrs to bake a roast and a pie (homemeade)
my bill was 8$ higher for the month over previous and that was the ONLY differing thing, my washer was broken so I was minus 4 hrs use fo that also.
avg electric oven draws 3000watts n hr
old coiltype hotplate i used to use n hr a day was costing me 50 a quarter on the bill
swapped to a pressurecooker(electric new style) bill dropped 50 a quarter thats how i know the massive cost difference. mwhich is ok if you want everything stewed steamed etc but a crisp baked spud etc it needs oil n dry heat and yes you can use electric frypans and I do, but its not the same as larger oven cooked.
Ive managed for decades on a pension due to disability and the paucity of work available to anyone over 50, no matter how multiskilled you are, if i didnt have the ability to cook from cheap basic goods and make do and mend and have expectations of nothing new , ever Id be like others I know further in debt and depressed and looking at having to sell up and hope for space with families(those who have em)
I had to look up pulses, and I guess in a nutshell they are nitrogen-fixing legumes.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t nitrogen-fixing plants accomplish that by stimulating microorganisms?
Don’t microorganisms emit CO2?
So wouldn’t pulses actually contribute to global warming?
And as far as restoring peat bogs, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t an active peat bog a huge emitter of methane?
As long as they don’t catch fire, aren’t peat bogs less contributors to global warming when they are in a dry, inert condition?
And in the digestive system, pulses create a lot of gas, so it’s a double whammy.
Am I the only one to perceive a contradiction in those two sentences?
If it is in the the farmers’ and landowners’ “interests” to move to a new model, why do they need to be rewarded with “public money”?
The public money is the purported interest. This is Nordic welfare socialism in nutshell. Tax, subsidize, regulate. No freedom, but public ‘good’ defined by majority (or elite) rule. Welcome to spoondigger’s ditchparadise, where everybody is employed, nobody is efficient, nothing advances and progress is all lefty.
The farmers will sell into the market, however it shapes. How is Gove to affect the price? Slap on a tax? Which foods? Forbid certain foods to be produced? Which? Appealable diktats? And this moron sucked up to that autistic psychopath Greta Thunberg. WHAT IS HAPPENING TO US.
Now I get it.
Climate Change Alarmism = Anorexia Nervosa and Bulemia. An imaginary problem that can kill you.
Politician promise 2019 –
No dam chicken, no dam pot.
I guarantee you Grove will never go hungry.
“Gove’s promise that everyone will have enough to eat”
If you like your hamburger you can keep your hamburger.
Yeah, I like the prime rib patties from Walmart. Nice lean beef, fine flavor, and freezable. $1.75 per beef patty for a pack of 4 of them – still cheaper and healthier than pizza.
Likely within fifteen years, these Liberal-Green-Lilliputs in UK Parliament (and their climate-alarmist network beyond like Gove) will require UK livestock-producers take an oath (to adhere to the Green-Lilliput-AG agenda) while also holding their right foot in their left hand, placing the middle finger of their right hand on top of their heads (with right thumb on the tip of the ear) to even borrow money under rational terms at all–or to obtain UK Govt. subsidies so as to convert their livestock farms to pulse farms, gardens and orchards according to Green-Ag Codes or they will be punish-taxed out of their property/land.
When he was Education minister he recognised and confronted what he termed the ‘blob’ – the unhealthy vested interest of influential education ‘professionals’ who presided over the great dumbing-down of much of the education system over the years (helped by incompetent governments of both sides of the spectrum, it must be said). I had some respect for him then. But since then, and especially since becoming Environment minster, he’s gone mad, swallowing every bit of green-blobbery imaginable. He was first in the queue to kowtow to that awful Swedish brat when she was over here. Absolutely loopy.
Maintain the Party line this week and you will be given your spinach ration comrade, if supplies last.
Funny, I know plenty of wealthier people who swear by organic this n that, gluten free, nothing from Walmart, wouldn’t set foot in a family dollar, and they are legit morbidly obese in spite of it. Because they eat way too much of it.
Unfortunately this prat is our local MP who is under the thumb of his newspaper reporter wife. What do you expect from an English graduate from a Scottish university? He commended the actions of the Swedish Kid(Greta Thurnberg) the unpaid PR wonk for her mothers climate change book.
“And encourages poor people to overeat“
I wonder what his wife has to say about that? She’s hardly a stick-thin catwalk model…
I think they should tax Members of Parliament, Members of Congress, and other such legislative representatives starting with 50% of their net worth (that is provided by the people they represent ) in their first term of service. Then increase that to 100% if they serve a second term and going to 200% if they are elected to a third term. Should they stand for a fourth term the tax should be 400% and 800% for a fifth term.
That should go a little ways towards putting the ‘Service’ back in public service. Oh sure, they will all have to scramble to increase their kickbacks and rakes to cover the bill, but why should they get to keep all the loot?
This ignorant and irresponsible mp has already helped screw the motor industry by saying that all diesel cars will be banned by 2040 because pollution from them causes deaths, specifically.
If you like your health insurance you can keep it.
If you like your food ration you can keep that too.
This would be a good time for some links to photos of store shelves in Venezuela and Cuba. I doubt you will find any photos from NK.
This man has been promoted in government way above his ability to act sensibly. If Boris becomes Prime Minister he must give Gove the order of the boot without delay, and not let him anywhere near government for the next 50 years. He has already wasted £billions of taxpayer money on his ridiculous Green projects, and is responsible for bringing the car industry to its knees. His demise will be one of the better aspects of losing the May government.
Why aren’t they banning forks too.
There is a HUGE difference between cheap, unhealthy food and cheap food! And the unhealthy part has nothing to do with the farmer.
And as in 1984, chocolate rations have been increased from 30 gm a week to 25 gm a week! AMSOC!
This guys picture makes him look like he belongs in that old Monty Python Upper Class Twit Of The Year competition skit.
You can bet he won’t be missing any meals or foie gras either.
Clearly, the compassionate solution to poverty is to starve poor people to death.
Utter misrepresentation by Gove. Those on the right side of the Bell Curve are in all likelihood not going to be represented in the ranks of unhealthily obese owing to the fact that they likely do not consume too much of the rubbish foods produced by the big FoodCorpo’s, who no doubt donate healthy amounts to the Conservatives in the hope of not being made the targets of any laudable efforts to improve the dietary lot of those eating themselves into a premature appearance before the Throne 🙂
I think they’re talking about junk food Eric, but nice dog-whisling.
The easiest way to increase the price of food is to tax it. I doubt that increasing the price of food will have any effect on global climate. Increasing the price of food could be devastating to the poor and of only little concern to the rich.
I spent some time looking up what type of diet was advocated. Basically it is a slight improvement on the diet that brought us obesity, diabetes, and NAFLD (Non Alcoholic Fatty liver Disease). Its only improvement was a 50% reduction of sugar in the recommended diet and that might have not gone far enough. This might be a healthy diet if people are willing to spend the time, are educated, are fanatical, and are not already suffering from insulin resistance. Only a small percentage of busy people would be able to follow this diet. They would instead eat processed foods.
If people are already suffering from insulin resistance a high fat diet that avoids vegetable oils and sugar would be a better approach.
The UK is currently ruled by a cross party cabal of antidemocratic Europhiles. Many farmers in the UK receive funding to do nothing and let their land lie fallow, from the EU (sourced by UK tax payers). Gove wants those farmers to feel secure as/if we leave. He adopts green language to ingratiate himself with the liberal and green elites.
Gove is an oleagenous politician who supported Brexit but since the vote has allied himself with the Tory government who have done everything in their power to thwart the vote of the people to leave the EU.
None of these politicians are scientists, most studied Politics and Economics at Oxbridge. I don’t think they have an intuitive grasp of the scale of industry. Hence they can talk about concepts like organic farming or carbon neutral economies without embarrassment because they don’t get scale. And they certainly have no intuitive feel for atmospheric physics.
Hey oh!
Affordable food is usually supported by massive govt subsidies and tax cuts for fuel, agriculture bonuses etc.
It means we are bombarded with corn syrup and ground beef and can afford to eat massive portion sizes. Let alone all the waste.
For the best and survival of the planet, let’s not any more allow the propagation and the means of survival and evolving prosperity of all these or those who make it by depending in cheap affordable food and cheap affordable energy sources.
Lets terminate the cheap food for the cheap people, for the sake of whatever we consider as saving the planet.
Cheap people do not matter much anymore, never did,,, did they!
Lets better the odds by terminating cheap and affordable food, for the sake of saving the planet…will we!
The not “worthy” cheap ones do not qualify for the way forward, too cheap, for not saying too dirty…
let’s drop them all, the cheap and dirty ones, before the planet gets it…
cheers
Price has nothing to do with obesity.
Sugar and carbohydrate foods increase hunger to cause overeating.
Also insulin is stimulated which causes fat storage in the body. Cut out sugar and carbs and obesity will be history. Eating fat does not cause fat unless it is eaten with carbs.
Nanny State idiocy at its finest. “The public refuses to be as slim as we think they should be, so let’s make food so expensive that they will starve since they can’t afford to feed their family any more.” When are the sheeple of the UK going to say enough is enough and toss the rascals out? Guess they’ve had the qualities of individualism and ability to think and care for themselves bred out of them.
‘Radical change needed to make UK food and farming system sustainable within 10 years’
If they don’t make it, will you give them another 10 years?
The BEST way to make UK food and farming system UNsustainable is to put government in charge. Millions will die.
I demand an end to his food, to combat Global Stupid.
Gove.. the gormless, chinless poster boy of the tory party “Fail Upwards” tradition.. “no good at your ministerial job? Here, move up to a post where you can do more damage.. What’s that? You know nothing about the remit of the job? Never mind, none of us know anything about anything we’re responsible for but we learn by our mistakes.. sometimes..”
He was selected out of the current leadership race by some tactical vote rigging, thank god! But the two remaining contestants are no better, Boris the buffoon and Hunt the rhyming couplet (a nickname he earned whilst dismantling the NHS) both have left a trail of destruction behind them. Either one will be the worst Prime Minister since.. well, since Theresa May.
It takes an incredible elitist to suggest something this arrogant. Not to mention tossing it off as ‘junk-food’.
This isn’t even ‘let them eat cake’ – it’s ‘let them starve’.
How long till they demand that govt ration food, and that only those who are in good standing are permitted to receive their daily ration.
I hate Social Elite twats like this.
“Oh! We need to make fast food more expensive! Then less people will eat it!”
Okay then genius, here is a challenge. Take $10 (pounds, Pacific Pesos, Whatever) and go to your nearest franchise fast food joint. Spend all the money on take away food.
Now take the same amount of cash and go to a fruit and veg shop. Spend all the money.
Go home and compare the size of your purchases.
Take away food is NOT CHEAP.
It is CONVENENT.
This man is either an idiot, a tyrant in waiting, or both. Regardless of which the world would probably be better off if he simply resigned and buggered off to Sweden to live in Saint Greta’s garden shed.
Isn’t this, “greater cost, less food”, the business model of Whole Foods?
And this is a Conservative Party guy! Imagine what the Labor party thinks!
U.K. has rotted to the core.
In 1815 Great Britain enacted the Corn Laws, tariffs and other restrictions on the importation of food. After that the industrial revolution took hold and the population exploded. British food production could not keep up. In 1839, Richard Cobden a self made Manchester businessman, self-educated economist, and politician, founded the the Anti–Corn Law League. Cobden’s arguments and the Irish Famine convinced Prime Minister Robert Peel* to repeal the Corn Laws in 1846. The repeal made food cheaper and more abundant and was a reason why Britain did not experience a violent revolution in1848 unlike the other countries of Europe.
And now this idiot wants to go back to the Corn Laws.
Facepalm.
*Peel was the one who hired professional law enforcement officers to patrol London. They are known as Bobbies in his honor.
Well, British food has needed an overhaul for a long time. Working there a couple years I could only find food in Italian and Indian restaurants. Fish and chips were fine but hold the mushy peas!
Earlier in history we had Empires ruled by Emperors, Kingdoms ruled by Kings – now we have Countries……
But, but, but I though climate change was leading to a shortage of food and increase in food.
Reality.
Bumper harvests year on year world wide.
These guys are idiots.
Utter rubbish.
Let the people eat what they want, unless you want a nanny state feeding its offspring in kitchens for the soupless. Hot-pot sundays in Germany , also called stew sundays, were a common practice in Germany since 1933 to enforce frugality. Nobody should go hungry without being cold…
I think we need an end to MP’s and other politicians—do much more good than anything else.
Michael Gove increasingly shows all the sign of having gone completely mad.
He confirmed that when he met with a teenage Scandinavian girl Greta whateverhername, a 16 year old with zero scientific qualifications who’s been brainwashed by her eco-activist parents.
The fact that he even met with her is damning enough but when he took her comments seriously and came out with his “Thanks to the leadership of Greta … your voice has been heard'” speech he just proved he’d lost the plot and was unsuitable for office.
The frustration of having to deal with this idiot led to the UK’s Fracking Commissioner resigning …” in dismay that Britain’s politicians would rather appease noisy green campaigners than listen to scientists’ advice”.
These latest comments are just the ramblings of a failed politician who needs to get back into the real world and move on with his life.
This MP better have a well taxpayer funded moat, he will need it one day.
10 reasons organic food is so expensive:
https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/10-reasons-organic-food-is-so-expensive
https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-huawei&ei=jcc0XcyMMNCnrgSVkryQBQ&q=costs+going+bio+for+food&oq=costs+going+bio+for+food&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.
Das eigentliche bio problem fuer die deutschen eier esser ist:
Wenn jeder deutsche bio fruehstuecks eier esser will ein fruehstuecks bio ei haben von gluecklichen freilaufenden huehnern
dann muss deutschland 10x ueberdacht werden fuer die gluecklichen frei Laufenden gluecklichen huehner.
________________________________________________________&
The real bio problem for the German morning bio egg eater is: If every German bio organic breakfaster wants to have a breakfast of bio organic produced eggs from happy freewheeling hens then Germany must be build over 10x for the happy free running freewheeling hens.
… awaiting moderation.
____________________________________________________
Hey mod, OK with me.
Info: only FACTS from my side.
Your problem.
This eco-religion with the help of huge propaganda organisations has brain wash two whole generations of adults. It is always weird to visit the UK and hear on every news program extreme weather stories every day all day and a reaffirmation of 97% of all known scientists… the favourite number of all despots and dictators at election time!!
The best way to end obesity would be to charge everyone market rates for health insurance on an individual market. Insurance companies would charge fat people more and they would have an economic incentive to lose weight. Ditto for smoking, lack of exercise, etc.