"We've got to go straight to the heart of capitalism and overthrow it."@GeorgeMonbiot on the only hope we have of stopping
climate breakdown. pic.twitter.com/pB6espCE8b
— Novara Media (@novaramedia) April 12, 2019
"We've got to go straight to the heart of capitalism and overthrow it."@GeorgeMonbiot on the only hope we have of stopping
climate breakdown. pic.twitter.com/pB6espCE8b
— Novara Media (@novaramedia) April 12, 2019
It’s not so much that the man is nasty and bonkers – it’s the MSM reach he has via his chums who espouse his beliefs and protect him from challenges – but are way too cowardly to put their own views forward under their own byline.
Hence the twerp is regularly presented as some kind of sage / expert – what’s not to like?
My 43 year old son also believes that capitalism is bad. He also thought that antifa had the right to act up violently because of perceived “harsh words” from others. That is what he learned by going to schools in Colorado, along with having a liberal mother. Disappointing to say the least.
Don’t blame the schools and liberal moms or dads, twins at age 42 can turn out with different points of view.
Hi Steve, I am a twin at age 73. My identical brother and I were part of the control group for separated twins studies, as we were adopted at birth and not separated (by great parents, I happily add). The separated twins studies, such as the most famous from Minnesota, actually revealed that twins turn out very similar even when separated at birth. This is our current case, with us agreeing an almost everything, and we are, of course, always right.
Which logically implies, Ron, that free will itself is an illusion and that our views and opinions are determined virtually exclusively by our genes.
Yet my views on politics and climate change (sorry to repeat myself) could not diverge further from those of my wombmates. It would appear that a similar situation applies with Steve and his son.
Adoption agencies used to take pains to place children in homes with consistent ethnic and religious backgrounds. That likely had a homogenizing effect on the socialization environments that separated twins experienced on average. There was a notional standard of a “good home”.
Our brains are part of our biology and obviously some aspects of what we think must depend on how well we think. But I believe it to be the case that what we choose to do with our minds is similarly constrained as what we choose to do with our computers. The same computer can be used to track investments in a spreadsheet or engage in social media campaigns to overthrow capitalism.
(With the last phrase I strain to bring the discussion back on topic).
Rich, might I respectivly suggest you read one of the separated twins studies first, then worry about free will. Your view and my view are fairly compatible, just not with respect to identical twin studies, whose findings are actual science.
Not all twins are identical. Fraternal twins might looked enough alike when they are kids but not at 42. But same house same parents same school etc. and they look at the world in a different light. And of course they both think they are right.
For anyone that thinks, …. or believes, …… that they have or possess “free will” for their decision making , ….. then prove it to yourself by:
1. Choose one (1) food that you dislike or really hate the taste of …… and via the power of your “free will” decision making, ….. tell yourself that henceforth you are going to actually like or really love the taste of that food.
Then take a bite of that food to see iffen your “free will” decision making was successful.
Or you could try ……
2. Choose a sport (football, baseball, golf, fishing) that you really, really like to watch on TV …… and via the power of your “free will” decision making, ….. tell yourself that henceforth you are going to really, really dislike and/or actually hate watching TV broadcast of said sport .
Then turn on your TV to view your selected “sports” to see iffen your “free will” decision making was successful.
I’m sure that your attempt(s) at “free will” decision making will not be successful, …. but you should prove it to yourself by attempting said.
Ill take your challenge, Mr. Cougar! I grew up playing, watching, adoring, and being completely immersed in American football. I literally wept as a child when watching the NFL Films narrated by Ed Sabol. This continued until I had kids, and met a friend who grew up playing Soccer (proper football). He taught me the fine points of the game, and we coached my kids in the sport. My teams were regular contestants in the CA State Cup. I continued coaching (acquiring licenses), and even becoming a neutral referee doing high level youth matches. I now awake at 4:30A on the weekends to watch the EPL live. I have lost virtually all interest in American football … save for a little affinity for my perennially pathetic CAL Bears.
So I’ve changed. Totally, and completely. American Football was #1 in my life until about age 33. Then I was over it. #walkaway. I walked away from it. Found something better. I found a sport where players don’t take knees during the National Anthem in protest of their $ multi-million contracts … although some players DO still flop in the PA! So, my free will appears to be stronger than most, eh? I suppose, however, I was born an iconoclast … so I was born with a bit more free will than the average human automaton.
@Ron Long, Rich Davis, Steve Case and any other interested persons,
The 1st Rule of Post-birth Development for the human animal is:
“You will be what your environment nurtures you to be”, ….. depending upon of course, the biological “mental” development attributes (genes) that one inherits from their biological parents. For instance, the inherited ability to quickly grow new brain neurons as needed, …… and the inherited ability to store newly sensed environmental data in the DNA of said neuron(s), ….. and most important of all, …. the inherited ability to quickly grow a synaptic connection(s) or link(s) between neurons that contain similar/associated/correlated sense organ uploaded environmental info/data.
The storing of environmental data/info is one thing, the recalling of that info/data is something else. And one can’t “recall” stored memory data without the synaptic connection between associated neurons.
Thus said, then identical twins, be they reared together or separately, theoretically should possess the same biological “mental” development attributes (genes) for processing environmentally uploaded sense organ info/data which is used for the “self-programming” of their brain/mind.
And, given the scientific fact that “evolution” is not capable of “foreseeing” what the environment is going to be like for a newborn animal (human) …… then there is really no way in ell that identical twins, … which were separated at birth, …. could possibly be mentally “conjoined” to insure the “commonality” of their adolescent mental/physical/social development.
No two humans, including identical twins that are reared together, have the same neuron count, the same environmental data stored in said neurons, nor the same number of synaptic “links” connecting various neurons.
Cheers, …… Sam the evolutionary biologist with special interest in/on human brain/mind development.
“My identical brother and I were part of the control group for separated twins studies”
There is a great documentary film about one of those separated twins studies.
“Three Identical Strangers” (2018)
This is about identical triplets, put up for adoption at birth. It turned out that the adoption agency was a front for a scientific researcher, so unknown to the kids and their adoptive parents, they were followed by psychologists for years. Also without being told that they had siblings. The results were never published and the data remains under seal until 2066.
The movie starts with everybody impressed about how identical the triplets are even though they grew up apart. Then it goes into how everybody forgot to looks for differences. Then it goes into the immorality of what those researchers did in the name of science. Highly recommended.
Samuel C Cogar – Thank you for the free will test. I passed it and apparently have free will.
I hated broccoli, but decided that it was healthy and should learn to like it. Initially, it took a lot of butter, but now I even like it raw.
I use to love watching the NBA, but after too many shenanigan’s, I choose to not watch it at all. That was at least 20 years ago, and I don’t miss it a bit.
As a young man, I used to enjoy whiskey, but after one horrible night in the bathroom, I haven’t touched the stuff in 35 years! (Okay…that last one might not be an example of free will.)
Kenji – April 14, 2019 at 9:15 am
Shur nuff, Kenji, …….. you walked away from it, …. and fer shur it was down a long “walkway” that took you several weeks or months to complete your “walk”. Just like cigarette smokers who take weeks or months to “walk away” from their smoking habit.
The only thing(s) that a person can, per se, “walk away from quickly and/or suddenly” are personal things that causes/caused them extreme and/or sudden “emotional pain”, …. such as, …. a loving, adoring, family committed husband ….. finding out he is not the father of the children his wife birthed after they were married. Or the spouse who suddenly and unexpectantly got served with “divorce papers” and a court order to immediately vacate the marital premises.
Pain, either emotional or physical, is the “quickest” method for nurturing or re-nurturing one’s subconscious mind.
Sorry bout that, James Clarke, …… but none of your cited ”actions” was an example of one’s “free will” to consciously make decisions, ……. simply because one’s conscious mind is only capable of making “choices”, …. and that is only if or when their subconscious mind “presents” their conscious mind with two (2) or more entities to “choose” from.
Remember. ….. your conscious mind is subservient to your subconscious mind.
And your experience with whiskey drinking is a prime example of ….. “ The only thing(s) that a person can, per se, “walk away from quickly and/or suddenly” are personal things that causes/caused them extreme and/or sudden “emotional pain” ”, …. such as, …. your bad bout with whiskey drinking. (See my response to: Kenji post of April 14, 2019 at 9:15 am)
Mr. Cougar … “shur-nuff”? “Fer-shur”? Why the condescending derision? I simply answered your very specific challenge with MY real-life experience. Do you REALLY believe your status as a lifelong (assuming) evolutionary biologist affords you the status to mock REAL WORLD experience that alters your oh-so-learned beliefs? Deep, deep, in the weeds are you? Lost all ability to challenge your OWN assumptions have you? People like you are a dangerous lot … esp. when they USE their science as absolute TRUTH … as inerrant orthodoxy. Dangerous. Very, very, dangerous.
Holy cow, everyone needs to calm down about IDENTICAL twins studies and just read some of these studies. For the record, there are three sub-sets common in these studies: 1. identical twins separated at birth (same genetics but different environment), 2. identical twins adopted but not separated at birth (identical genetics and environment), and 3. virtual twins (two babies not genetically related but adopted at birth by the same family, so same environment). Here’s a useful confession for some of you, my brother fought like cats and dogs over some issues when we were younger, like teenagers, probably urged on by hormone floods? There, I feel better.
As this is all way off topic, I am only going to say a couple of quick points.
To Ron: Psychology, sociology, etc. are not hard sciences in practice, and I am not convinced that they ever can be.
To Sam: We do not only make choices conjured up by our subconscious, but also respond to external stimuli. Life is not a dream. If you imagine that your every action is predetermined, why do you continue in life? (I suppose you’ll say that you have no choice, obviously).
Mr. Sam: Being a skeptic of all opinions my many years why do I immediately take the side of the least aggressive person in any disagreement, when there is room for valid considerations on both sides? Could I be influenced by the overbearing personality of the more aggressive person when superior intellect is not the greater part of the data that most bares on the subject?
I choose NOT to participate in your little game.
It appears others were swayed by your suggestion.
So much for their free will…. 😉
Kenji – April 14, 2019 at 11:26 am
Kenji, your anger is understandable. That usually happens when one realizes their long time belief ….. just might be in serious error, …..like completely different from what the actual truth is.
But read what David Eagleman and/or Sam Harris has to say, to see if they agree with you, to wit:
Your Brain Knows a Lot More Than You Realize
Neuroscientist David Eagleman explores the processes and skills of the subconscious mind, which our conscious selves rarely consider.
Baruch Spinoza: “Men believe themselves to have free will because they are conscious of their actions, and unconscious of the causes whereby those actions are determined.“
Ron Long, Rich Davis, Dipchip, fred250
All of my posted commentary is based in/on known science and it appears 98% of it is completely foreign to all of you, ….. so, here following is commentary I authored to provide a better understand for people like yourselves. (we will see how much of it will post)
A View of How the Human Mind Works ……… last update 11-03-10
As seen through the eyes of: Samuel C Cogar,
AB Biological & Physical Science, Logician, Thinker, Inventor and Computer Dinosaur
Now what I’m about to say will befuddle and confuse most of you, ……. and at first you won’t believe me …… because you may have never ever heard or read anything similar before now.
Your conscious mind …… did not see …… what you are now reading on your PC monitor.
Your optic nerves transmit two (2) channels of streaming video which they received via reflected/radiated light that entered the pupil of your eye, passed through the lens and struck the back of your eye. These inverted images are then transmitted to your subconscious mind which combines the two and with only the center portion of said image being in focus. If reading, only the word or portion of word that you are concentrating on is in focus. Everything else that you can detect in your “view”, …… on the monitor, off the monitor, up, down, left or right is “out of focus”. You know it is there ….. but you can’t see it plainly.
Your conscious mind is permitted to “see” this image …… but it “sees” this image right-side-up. As you read each of the words in this sentence, as you are (hopefully) doing this very second, …… your subconscious mind is “telling you” everything you need to know about each word, selected from a “list” of everything that you previously learned about said word (its meaning, pronunciation, usage, etc,) and thus permitting you to easily Amazon read this paragraph.
Now, did you notice that “interrupt” that confused your subconscious when it encountered the word “Amazon”. Now be honest, tell us what your subconscious “told you”. Didn’t it make you back-up and try figuring out what it was doing there in the middle of that sentence?
If your ears pick up the sounds coming from another room in you house, ….. how do you consciously know it is your spouse talking rather than your dog barking? You can’t see what is generating the noise. How do you know it is even your spouse that is the person talking, you can’t see him/her?
If you can’t “consciously” see …… what is causing the noise …… how do you know for sure, …. exactly, … absolutely, ….. positively …….the source of said noise?
The answer is a simple one. Your subconscious mind has thousands of different “sounds” and what each one is ……. stored in your “memory”. And when your ear picks up a sound ….. your auditory nerve transmits that sound to your subconscious mind, which also tells your conscious mind, but it also attempt to match it to one of the “stored sounds” and if it finds a match …… it will inform your conscious mind what produced the sound. If your conscious mind is asleep when the sound is heard ……. your subconscious mind will make a determination of its importance ……. and will “wake up” your conscious mind if so warranted.
A simple “Time to get up honey” will not arouse one from a deep sleep on a Saturday morning …… like the loud sound of “FIRE” will.
The human mind is a mysterious thing which even we humans have not figured out exactly how it functions. It is not a physical thing but more like an electrical thing such as the “program code” that controls the operations and functions of a Personal Computer (PC).
I will attempt to describe my View of How the Human Mind Works using terminology, components and functions that many people are now familiar with, …… the Personal Computer (PC). And one should remember when reading the following that it is general overview of “how things work” and/or “how things might probably work” and is intended to present a “different perspective” than what is generally believed.
Given said, the human mind can be described as being similar to the Control Program (CP) and the Application Programs (APs) that functions within a PC. As can the human body be described as being similar to a PC System with equivalent Input/Output (I/O) channels. Humans have sensors and muscles, a PC has options and peripherals. Our eyes are like a video camera, our ears like a microphone, our vocal cords like a speaker, our muscles like the mechanics of a printer or factory robot, etc. And our information storage is like a PROM (Programmable Read Only Memory), a RAM (Random Access Memory) and a disk drive and we call them “memory” or “memories”.
The words “mind” and “brain” are often times used interchangeably but in actuality the brain is a physical entity and the mind is the brain’s “program” that controls the different functions and operations of parts of the body. Humans have two (2) minds, a conscious mind and a subconscious mind. Now I said “parts” because the brain does not control everything. Our brain is only part of our Nervous System which also includes the brain stem, spinal cord and nerves.
Our nerves are like electrical wires and cables that transfer information back and forth between all parts of the body and the spinal cord, brain stem and brain. Just like the wires and cables that connect the Processor Card of your PC ……. to the monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers, printer, etc.
The human brain is equivalent to ….. the processor chip(s) (Intel, AMD), the ROM memory, the RAM memory and the disk memory of a PC. A human’s subconscious mind is equivalent to a PC’s Operating System (VISTA – MS-DOS) and the conscious mind is equivalent to the Control Program (MS-Windows).
In the Beginning – PCs and People
PCs are born on a factory assembly line, ……. humans are born from their Mother’s womb. Both have the attributes that will permit them to “grow and survive”, both require a Control Program and Application Programs to function properly ……. and thus permitting them to “get started” on their journey through life. But now the big difference between the two is, …… the Control Program and the Application Programs for the PC is “loaded” or “installed” in one fell swoop before it leaves the factory floor and the PC has no control over what is being loaded into it.
But not so for humans, they are born with a limited but primitive Control Program that is capable of modifying and expanding itself based on the data or information that it receives via the body’s sense organs. As the Control Program becomes more complex it creates/generates Application Programs for managing the sensed data and to control and manage the “action” of various muscles associated with seeing, arm movements, leg movements, talking, etc.
Thus, a human’s Control and Application programs are “a work in progress” and are “loaded” or “installed” in bits n’ pieces, …… and this process is called “nurturing”, ……. and requires years and years to complete. In essence, humans construct, build and/or assemble their own “personalized” Control and Application Program that best suits their environment because their environment pretty much dictates the data that is used to generate said.
Thus, the first few years of nurturing “sets the stage” for all future nurturing because said earlier nurturing created the Control and Application Programs that permits said nurturing.
Thus, humans are ……. a biological self-programming super computer. They are what their environment nurtured them to be.
Industrial Robots and Humans
I am sure most everyone is familiar with “industrial robots” that are employed in manufacturing. These are mechanical devices that are controlled by a computer and are used to perform repetitive processes on an assembly line such as painting, drilling, packaging, etc.
Now consider a really complex Industrial Robot that has “sensors, components and appendages” for ….. seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, generating sounds and controlling the movements of its appendages. For this Robot to function properly it must have a computer and a Control Program that can “read data” from its sensors ……. and issue “control commands” for the movement of its appendages.
Said Control Program can only read the sensors and move the appendages …… but it doesn’t know what to do with the “sensed data” or how the appendages should be moved. Thus, an Application Program is required for doing a specific job. If the “job” is to paint an item, then a Painting Application Program is loaded and executed which tells the Control Program what to do with the “sensed data” and how to move the appendages to perform the work. If the “job” is to drill holes in an item, then a Drilling AP is loaded and executed by the CP. And that Robot “has no choice”, it must accept the new or revised “program” and do what it tells it to do.
Robots are similar to humans, ……… because humans also have a Control Program and Application Programs for performing different tasks and jobs. They are similar to robots except when it comes to “downloading” (nurturing) their Operating Program. A human’s “computer” is their brain and it is programmed in bits n’ pieces and takes several years. And the human mind has the unique ability ……. after the first few years or so of being “programmed” ……… to accept or reject whatever it wants to. The human mind can MAKE A CHOICE. And of course, said choice of “accepting and/or rejecting” is controlled by …….. their previously nurtured program(s).
Thus, …… you are what you are nurtured (self-programmed) to be.
And only that person themselves ……. can make changes to their own “program”, …… which is not easily done except when there is a dire need or reason to do so. For instance, consider a food type that you have an “extreme dislike for the taste of” …… and try to re-program your “mind” …… to “really love the taste of it”.
The nurturing (programming) of humans begin at birth or shortly thereafter. This nurturing process is accomplished via their sensory organs which are the eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue and the skin. And this is a very slow process for the first year or so after they are born because a baby can see ……. but it doesn’t know what it is seeing. It can hear sounds …… but it doesn’t know what those sounds are. It can smell odors …….. but doesn’t know what those odors are. It can feel pain or when they are touched by something …… but they know not the cause of the pain or what touched them.
Babies have vocal cords and dozens of other muscles that they have very limited control over because ……. they have not programmed themselves to control them. They do have an inherited program that permits them to cry when they are hungry, feel pain or when they sense their parent or guardian “is afraid”, …. shows fear.
The early nurturing of a child is a slow “trial and error” process of repeat, repeat, repeat ….. because the child doesn’t know what it is learning. It is constantly receiving information from its senses and must learn to sort out what is important and store said in their memory. Not only that, but data links between all associated sensed information must be established and or revised. For instance, a child can sense the touch of its mother, sense her aroma, hear her voice and see a visual image of her. All this different data is stored in the child’s memory and regardless of the sequence or time this data is received and stored, ….. it will all be linked together to form a “composite picture” per say. And from then on, if the child again senses any one of the four (4) aforementioned, it will trigger a “recall” of said “composite picture” or parts there of.
Another example of this action is: someone calls you on the telephone, you say “hello”, they say “hello”, you recognize the voice, …… and “bingo”, ….. all sorts of information about that person is “recalled” from one’s memory. Said “recall” is the transferring of recorded data from one’s “permanent memory” to their “short-term memory”, from their sub-conscious mind to their conscious mind.
Thus, the human brain/mind consists of four (4) separate entities, which are: permanent memory, short-term memory”, the subconscious mind and the conscious mind. The subconscious mind being the dominant and controlling part of the mind and the conscious mind being the subservient part that one uses for thinking, reasoning and choice making based on parameters, prerequisites and guidance that are determined by the “wiring” or programming of the subconscious mind.
The obvious and primary proof that one has a subconscious mind is one’s experience of “dreaming”. The conscious realization of participating in a “bogus” live-action video being generated by one’s subconscious mind. And the fact that all data from one’s senses (eyes, ears, nose, etc.) is filtered through one’s subconscious mind and the conscious mind is only made aware of the “results” of said filtering. And “the proof is in the pudding”.
When one is awake with their eyes open, their two eyes are transmitting two (2) channels of INVERTED “live action” video pictures via their optic nerves to their subconscious mind, which combines said two (2) channels into one (1) visual image or picture, edits it when necessary by adding or deleting data and then permits the conscious mind to “view” it ….. while at the same time interpretating what the object(s) is that is in focus and informing the conscious mind what it is. And at the same time interpretating any sounds being heard by one’s ears and informing the conscious mind what it was that created said sound(s).
Concerning the afore said visual image, a curosity question is, does the subconscious re-invert the image or does the conscious mind actually see it inverted? In actuality it matters little given the fact that the subconscious mind tells the conscious mind the orientation of the visual image based on the balance mechanism located in the inner ear?
Now the aforementioned “recall” of memory data can be initiated via at least three (3) methods:
1). One (1) of your (5) senses (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and feeling) detects a stimuli and transfers it to your sub-conscious mind …… which it “checks out”, …. and if relevant, ….. “Posts it” to your conscious mind and/or to your muscle neurons.
Your “eyes” see a friend …. and your “vocal cords” say “Hello”. You hear your child’s voice among a group of kids scream “DADDY” … and bout every muscle in your body will “react” before you get a chance to “think” about it. You hear a loud noise and you will “jump” before you even consciously know what caused said noise. Smell rotting flesh ….. and you will puke n’ gag before you can control it. The subconscious mind reacts to the sensed data before the conscious mind is informed about said sensed data.
Recall of stored data is also affected when one is consciously trying to get their eyes to focus on an object or partial object that they do not recognize. In this case the subconscious will retrieve “similar data from memory” and attempt to “fill in” the missing part(s). Like when one is driving down the highway and sees in the far distance a couple little connected “bright orange” humpies barely protruding above a building or some trees. And “BINGO”, the big orange “M” of a McDonald’s restaurant appears in their conscious mind. And when one sees a shadow or a blurry object, maybe several different “thingys” will be recalled and they can then consciously pick one or “make a guess” as to what it is. Per say, “Well it looks like so-n-so.”
2). The 2nd method is when the conscious mind is “thinking” about something and “Posts” a request for “data” that is recorded somewhere in the brain. If the sub-conscious mind can locate said “data” ….. it will “post” a copy of it to the conscious mind. If it has trouble locating said, like when someone asks you ….. “What is that fellow’s name?” …… and you first have to reply …. “Just a minute, … I’ll think of it.” ……. and pretty soon , … BINGO, …. that name materializes in your “conscious mind” …….. and you then reply … “Charley, …. his name is Charley Brown.” And sometimes that response might take hours or days before it “pops up” in your conscious mind. The subconscious mind never sleeps.
3). Now this 3rd one is the “weird one” ….. which most people don’t understand, don’t know what causes it and …… don’t know how and/or are incapable of controlling it. This method is when the sub-conscious mind is a “thinking” about something ….. and “posts” info or data to the conscious mind ….. for SEEMINGLY no reason whatsoever. Meaning, your senses didn’t “sense” anything …… and your conscious mind didn’t request anything. Like when one hears the words to a “tune” that keeps popping up in their mind but they don’t know why. Per say, “those little voices that talk to people.”
Now this 3rd form also occurs when one is awake, …. but most always only involves “thoughts”, … meaning no sights, sounds, smells or tastes. Feelings yes, because one often hears one say “I just got a feeling that ….. ”.
Now most everyone experiences another form of this 3rd method quite often, but for the most part, …. treats it as a curious but normal thingy, ….. which they sometimes talk to others about …. but more often times they won’t. One form of this is called “dreaming” and if it is a truly scary dream it is called a “nightmare”.
Dreaming and REM sleep
Now “dreaming” occurs when one is sleeping and the Professionals refer to it as the REM phase of sleep (Rapid Eye Movement) because it is characterized by the darting of the eyes under the eyelids. Now one is only aware of their dreaming if their sleeping is disturbed during said REM phase. A noise, a smell, a pain or being touched can cause one to awake. It is the controlling subconscious mind that puts the conscious mind to sleep and it is the subconscious mind that wakes it back up whenever it receives a stimulus from one of the senses that the conscious mind needs to be made aware of. When this happens the conscious mind is also made aware of the content of the “dream” and thus one remembers it. But dreams are quickly forgotten unless one “talks or thinks about them” shortly after they wake up.
Now there are 3 or 4 theories as to the cause of REM, and of course, I have my own. And it is my opinion that REM is caused by that same portion of the brain (subconscious mind) that directs eye movement and focus when one is awake. The conscious mind does not control eye movement and focus. It posts a “request” to the sub-conscious mind by “focusing” on the mental image and the subconscious signals the eye muscles to constrict or relax thus causing the eye to move in its socket and the lens to change the focal length so as to correctly view the actual visual image. But this conscious action that directs eye movement is relatively slow and which I will call SEM (Slow Eye Movement) because if one moves their eyes too quickly or moves their head too quickly their visual picture becomes a blur, is distorted and out of focus. And the reason this occurs is that the lenses of the eyes do not have time to refocus before they transmit another image and the fact that said two (2) visual images takes time to transmit through the optic nerves and are changing too quickly for the subconscious mind to combine the two and/or to compose a new single mental image for the conscious mind to view.
And this same action occurs when one is “dreaming”, ….. when their sub-conscious mind is retrieving bits n’ pieces n’ parts of pre-recorded data from memory ….. and mixing, matching, manipulating, making up and composing “live action video” pictures of false visual data and “posts” it to one’s conscious mind’s memory area, …. the same at it does when receiving the two (2) channels of “live action video” from one’s Optic nerves via their eyes …….. and one’s eyes are being directed (REM) to move as if they were focusing on the “dream picture”.
But dream sequences occur very quickly, like at “warp speed” or “fast forward”, meaning they are compressed into a very short time frame relative to one’s equivalent conscious actions. In that said images are recalled from memory no reformatting or composing is required. Said difference being comparable to “uploading” and displaying a photo via E-mail verses retrieving and displaying a photo stored on one’s PC’s hard drive. And if said dreams are occurring “rapidly” and the eyes are being given false “motion” commands to focus on the primary subject in one’s dream then that explains the Rapid Eye Movement (REM) when one is dreaming.
And said false “live action video” dreams also includes “sounds” and ”feelings” to accompany said action. But now I do not ever remember experiencing or being told about “smells” being included in one’s dreams.
Everyone dreams, but not everyone remembers dreaming. And those that do remember dreaming only remembers a portion of their dream(s) and usually only for a short time. And one can see “plain as day” and hear “clear as a bell” everything that is happening in their dreams. And one sometimes listens to people talking, and sometimes talk to others, in their dreams.
So the question is, …… how is it possible for one to be “seeing” and “hearing” what is happening in their dreams …….. if one is sound asleep in a dark room with their eyes closed and there is no one around for them to be talking to or to be talking so that one can hear them?
The obvious answer to all those questions is quite simple, ….. and that answer is: one’s conscious mind can only see, ….. hear, ….. smell, …. taste …. and/or feel ….. what one’s subconscious mind permits it to see, ….. hear, ….. smell, …. taste …. and/or feel.
One’s conscious mind does not “see” what their eyes see (or hears what their ears hear, etc.). One’s eye(s) transmit “streaming video” via their optic nerves directly to their subconscious mind which it then combines the two (2) video streams via editing, adjusting, inverting, converting, associating, etc. …… and then permits their conscious mind to “see” (or hear, or smell, etc.) the results.
And that is exactly what happens when one’s conscious mind experiences a “dream” ….. except that one’s subconscious mind is generating/composing/creating their “dream” from bits n’ pieces n’ parts of their stored memories. I mean like that dream that included that terrific looking person that one seen at the mall last week but with her/him walking around in their own living room or where ever. All dreams are in effect “out of body experiences”.
Thus, if one has stored memories of a snake, ….. unexplained flying objects ….. or “spiritual entities”, ……… their subconscious can at anytime it so desires, …. pick one of those out and insert it in “the picture” that it creates for their conscious mind to “see”. And those “thingys” can move around in that “picture” just like long gone old friends, good looking strangers or whatever …. moves around in “one’s dreams”.
Dreams share many qualities with hallucinations. Dreams are the hallucinations we all experience. Thus, hallucinations are the same as dreaming except they only occur when one is conscious or awake and only involve a portion of what one is consciously seeing.
The fact is, dreams and hallucinations are the exact same things except that dreams are composed solely of stored memory data whereas hallucinations are composed of actual visual data and one or more objects retrieved from stored memory data and thus the big difference between the two is how one consciously interprets them. If one wakes up realizing they had been having a dream (their subconscious mind permitted them access to “view” the dream it was composing), then no problem, dreaming is a natural “thingy” that one does when asleep. But if one is awake and viewing actual visual data and their subconscious mind inserts an object from stored memory into that visual data it is presenting for the conscious mind to “view” we call that an hallucination. And that inserted object(s) could be a “moving” object or a stationary object. A “ghost” of someone, per say, that is walking around in plain view, but only in plain view of the person experiencing the hallucination. When this happens it usually scares the bejesus out of said person and/or they will claim they seen a vision, a miracle or whatever.
Thus, the difference between a dream and an hallucination is: an hallucination occurs when one’s conscious mind is “awake” and the subconscious mind screws up for whatever reason by inserting “bogus” data from stored memory into the actual visual image. Thus, the awake conscious mind thinks said bogus image is actually what their eyes are seeing and the person can not be convinced otherwise. People with really strong religious beliefs or people who are easily frightened are noted for seeing “things” that aren’t really there.
If the subconscious mind can insert “characters” in the “live action” video it creates for one’s dreams, it can sure enough insert a “character” or object into the incoming visual data from one’s eyes.
And the simple explanation as to how one can “see” their dreams/hallucinations is the fact that one can not consciously “see” anything directly, even the two channels of streaming video being transmitted via their eyes and optic nerves. Said video is transmitted to the subconscious mind which combines them, massages them, edits them, stabilizes them, adds things, inverts them and then permits the conscious mind to “see” the results.
Our subconscious mind is ….. one powerful “realtime” video editor. Actually, my thinking is that the subconscious mind has several biological “virtual processors”, all operating concurrently for processing the sense organ data, conscious data, subconscious data, vocal data, stored memory data, etc. Just think of all the data that has to be “processed” and the muscles that have to be controlled if one was reading “out loud” the words written in this commentary.
One consciously “sees” what ever their subconscious mind permits them to “see”, nothing more, nothing less.
Religious and other beliefs
Most Religious (capital R) beliefs are nurtured in one at a very early age and are no different than nurturing one to understand and speak the native language of their parents. Thus, a nurtured Religion is not actually a “belief”, ….. it is a “programmed reaction” resulting from an external stimuli that one’s conscious mind really has no control over.
One’s conscious mind has no more control over said “belief” than it has control over what their ears hear another person saying or their eyes sees that is printed on the pages of a book.
If said person speaking is speaking one’s native language or the book one is reading is printed in one’s native language, ….. then no problem, one’s conscious mind comprehends what is being said or being read because their subconscious mind interprets said and tells their conscious mind what it was. For the most part one’s conscious mind doesn’t even have to consider said “interpretation or translation” because it just “appears” in their conscious mind automatically via a subconscious function.
But if either is in a foreign language then “sorry about that”, their subconscious mind has not been “programmed” to do said interpretation or translation. And one’s conscious mind can’t do anything to change said unless it first decides to “make a change” and then effect a long, drawn out process (we call learning) of re-programming their subconscious mind to interpret/translate that second language.
And so goes ones Religious belief if their subconscious has never been “programmed” to consider a different Religious belief or any belief that is contrary to said Religious belief they were first nurtured to believe. On the contrary, their subconscious mind has most probably been “programmed” to have a per say “closed mind” to any “belief” other than what they were nurtured with. And there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about that except that person them self. And if he/she doesn’t want to go through the “learning” process to re-program their subconscious mind, “then sorry about that also”.
Everything a person learns today is highly dependent upon what they learned yesterday, and all the yesterdays back until the day they were first born.
You are what you were nurtured to be by your environment.
Mr. Cougar – Anger? Hardly. I was quite gentle with you … feeling sorry for your immediate retreat into an ad hominem attack by using insulting, derisive, language to describe my honest and factual response to your ‘scientific’ claims.
So, brain studies PROVE there is no free-will because every MLB hitter decides on balls or strikes milliseconds prior to action? This skill is “involuntary”? Seriously? So you’ve never read the book ‘Outliers’? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book)
So you’ve never learned about the 10,000 hour rule? You don’t understand that; practice, practice, practice makes perfect? In my profession, after 40 years of practice, practice, practice … I make difficult decisions far faster, and far more accurately than when I was 20 years old. My mind is far ahead in problem-solving tasks.
Nothing says “nurture” quite like seeing 10,000 pitches in live games and batting cages. Same with Stephan Curry’s jump shot. The man is a ‘practice’ machine.
The fatalism of your “involuntarism” is sad, and yet is so easily countered with my own free will to keep an open mind, and never allow one source of “truth” to define the world for me.
Kenji, sit down in a comphy chair, take a couple deep breaths, a couple big gulps of a cold beer …… and relax. Then re-read my above postings.
Wow! speaking of a comfy chair … may I suggest a very snug jacket for you. One with multiple straps that clasp in the rear with your arms crossed. Then, some anti-free-will-anti-psychotic medications which might slow-down all those subconscious urges you have to proselytize your … *ahem* … science.
My beverage of choice is not beer, but I am not surprised by your persistence in painting your intellectual opponents as simpleton rubes … who of course … drink beer. Probably Budweiser, eh? I am sure such imagery comforts your subconscious.
Kenji, in that it is quite obvious that you are not the least bit interested in the actual, factual science of the natural world that you are a product and part of, ….. then science fiction must be your forte and thus you should really, really enjoy the following, to wit:
Kenji, I’m sure those researchers could use your help in figuring out what the “data code” is for the aforesaid encoded information transmissions which has to match that which the brain uses for its data/info transmissions.
Cheers ……. and have a great life swinging those ball bats.
Give him one way ticket to.
North korea. Cap has it faults
But dont throw baby out with
May I ask what he lives on?
Tell him that you are willing all your assets to charity because you don’t want to corrupt his socialist values.
Do what I do. Engage. Send articles that challenge his belief system. You can probably run circles around them. And do it with love.
In the UK now prime time TV prominence is given to crazies like the Moonbat.
Arrested, prosecuted, convicted, banged up in jail in one day is Julian Assange.
Wikileaks has never been shown to be in error, exposing govt war crimes etc.
The Moonbat preaches the destruction of humanity & our society.
He advocates for the proven failure ideology of Communism, murderous both of millions of people
& the environment.
We live in interesting times.
Nasty problem of money to implement their dreams. Get rid of capitalism. Have Fascism. Money problem solved. After all, talking to people with data and convincing arguments is so annoying, especially when they don’t have any.
Seriously, you are advocating Fascism?
Did you really need a /sarc tag? Your deductive reasoning skills are lacking.
You took the bait.
Good God griff! You never fail to prove that there can always be something more daft.
Nobody give Griff a copy of Jonathan Swift’s “A Modest Proposal”.
He’ll think it’s a cookbook.
To Serve Man
“Fascism : three principles of a fascist philosophy.
1.”Everything in the state”. The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.
2.”Nothing outside the state”. The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.
3.”Nothing against the state”. Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens. ”
Sounds so much like the current position of left wing liberal Democrats.
“Sounds so much like the current position of left wing liberal Democrats.”
John F. Kennedy, 1961: “And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country.”
Your quote is from 58 years ago. What does it have to do with the current Democrats?
JFK would be driven out of today’s Democrat party.
JFK’s positions of 1961 would be considered hard line Conservative today.
sounds like Australia.. wheat board controls who grows how much wheat, who it’s sold to and at what price. Wool board, dairy board .. potato board , schools (but I repeat myself)
We’ve kind of almost got rid of them, but the mentality still remains, capitalism for general things but anything that potentially places the nations interests at risk, no – state control – roads, water, telecommunications, hospitals, medicine, education. No risk of profiting from the people by greedy corporatists (I use that word in place of the generic ‘capitalists’ for that’s what they mean when they attack capital)
So we grew up with what was essentially fascism and we barely knew it – and it’s served us rather well to be honest It won’t work forever, we have bureaucracies creeping their power and control, ministers outsourcing their jobs to these same folk, corporatists convincing the politicians that they can be trusted to do the job fairly and it’s not pretty.
But to the anti-capitalists I remind them ‘socialism’ is still very much a system that works with capital – the system they’re thinking of is communism. In the early manifests they outline how money will be eradicated. I explain how rather that being permitted to store your wealth to do with as you please, a faceless bureaucrat – one of your ‘betters’ on the other side of the country will decide what you need.
Want a car? Apply for one by all means.. there’ll be a waiting list as the workers in the Traby factory shuffle the cars out as slowly as they please. Want to be a botanist? ha! No, your Supreme Head Western School System Overseer’s minion determined you’d best serve society as a dung collector. That’s it. No silly, no promotions or possibility of transfers.. the Great Leaders aren’t fallible, that is what you will be. They shall decide where you live, whether you’re entitled to transport, what food you will eat.
Oh it’ll be entirely fair and scientific, and dare you suggest otherwise you’d be clearly in need of re-education. It’s an idyllic system, none of the bothers of money complicating one’s lives..
Of course there’s another way, (BIG trigger warning – sorry but this gets ugly ) George Fitzhugh’s way, the democrat Lincoln loathed.. he proposed white men be freed from the scourge of capitalism the same way the blacks had by making all men slaves. In his words “‘It is the duty of society to protect the weak;’ but protection cannot be efficient without the power of control; therefore, ‘It is the duty of society to enslave the weak.” He was also part of a wider movement to attack and seize nearby nations, extend slavery to them and then on to the rest of the word.
on reflection.. they don’t look that different really, do they ?
I am happy that Moonbat Monbiot is stating that the goal of the climate change adherents is the destruction of our way of life.
Considering that Monbiot’s philosophy is automatically taken up by many of the MPs in Westminster, the BBC , C4 , the Anglican Church, the “infallible” Pope and most of the media , I am most unhappy about him saying that the goal of climate change adherents is the destruction of our way of life.
Imperfect as a way of life it may be, but the alternatives do not appeal.
My goal is to break the political class, not the economic system. Monbiot’s ideas will cause the old, the poor and the sick to devote ever more of their income to energy purchase until something breaks — this is already happening. Monbiot’s ideas will lead to two classes of people, the nomenclatura and the rest of us. We’ll watch them fly, we’ll watch them eat meat, we’ll admire their Zil limos as they zoom by our bicycle lanes.
Monbiot, as one of the useful idiots will be OK but he won’t be up there at the top table. hat’s what happens to useful idiots.
It’s hard to believe that there are people who applauded this rant.
My first thought too! But the applause rings hollow in the echo chambers wherein they speak.
Basically get rid of democracy, but afraid to put it in those terms.
Path to hell is paved with the good intentions like ‘saving the German race’ and it always ends up the really bad way (well, hell). I’m concerned on the ongoing radicalization of the environmentalists. We can’t appease a mob of gullibles that have been primed with hate speech of the left. How to make them listen when free speech does not mean they’d listen the message they think is from the bad people?
Scott Adams is genuine in trying to listen, but many people are more on the side of ‘free speech means right to downshout and applaud when people are physically assaulted’. And I’m not talking *only* about the left.
Please name those on the right who behave this way.
People who attack ‘capitalism’ as a rule attack a strawperson, and doing so declare themselves gullible and childish.
If we take a look at noncapitalistic coutries, we find such ‘funny’ places as North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba…
Most other countries are capitalist, or if not capitalist, not exactly climate leaders. China for example is world number #1 climate polluter absolutely with ‘carbon’ emissions larger than the UK per capita. Moonbot wants to replace May with Who?
At the moment, Hugs? Almost Anyone Else! (With the possible exception of the small bearded Marxist and his coterie of hangers on.)
From the far side of the pond it looks like your only slim hope is for all Leave politicians to have their own independent group and join Labour/SNP in a no-confidence vote. Elect a new Parliament, and run calling for a new referendum based on WTO vs revoke Article 50. There’s no way the establishment Europeans are going to allow a real Brexit while they are still MPs. And it seems that the Conservative brand has been tainted beyond hope. May has done a brilliant job, if your goal was to thwart Brexit and destroy the Tories.
On second thought, get used to the idea of Comrade Prime Minister. If the Remain Tories were willing to destroy their party to avoid Brexit, they will also be prepared to see Corbyn in #10.
Two things , none capitalists states have bloody awful environmental records , and of course Moonbat does not given any example of his ‘ideal’ system in action becasue he cannot not .
Of course like most that tells us how much they hate ‘capitalism’ , they do so from within capitalists states despite their ability to go and live in none capitalists-states, their adoration for which is always done ‘at a distance ‘
Full of hate , and lacking in any practical ideas Moonbat has a wide range of issue he is clueless on , from farming to energy .
Indeed, the Soviet Union was NOT the paragon of environmentalism! The USSR turned their soviet satellite countries into Superfund sites knowingly and unapologetically! Mooney-tunes has been corrupted by the same outlandish yet insidiously dangerous ideology that AOC spews, but at least many critics are rebutting the silliness with obvious facts!
Ah…. but this time it is going to be different. /sarc
He is right on one point. Socialism = lower economic output. Economic output is very highly correlated with energy consumption. So socialism = lower economic output = lower energy consumption = lower CO2 emissions.
Back to the old canard that CO2 emissions cause catastrophic climate change.
So ask yourself, are you prepared to live a life of poverty to combat climate change that only occurs in broken computer models, and not in the real world?
This poor fellow has little consideration for his fellow human beings!
What he’s talking about is going back to life in the 10th Century BC.
Imagine what the impact of his argument will on human existence on earth?
It’s hard for me to believe that any thoughtful person could willingly applaud his ideas?
Oh, but he won’t be going back to the 10th Century BC. It will be everyone else. He’ll still have his car and smartphone and refrigerator and the organic grocer just around the corner.
And all of us affected serfs will be soooo happy to have the opportunity to sleep in our straw beds in our cozy little daub and wattle huts after a rewarding day working cheerfully in the fields to support our more equal equals, to which tribe Moonbat obviously thinks he will belong because he is soooo smart.
Thoughtful people didn’t applaud his ideas.
From climatedepot.com : “UN Climate Chief Christiana Figueres laments U.S. democracy is ‘very detrimental’ in war on global warming — Lauds one-party ruled China for ‘doing it right’ on climate change.”
Since China did absolutely nothing to lower its CO2 emissions, Figueres clearly exposes her totalitarian agenda which has nothing to do neither with ecology nor with climate.
The psychopathic Moonbat above is in the same totalitarian cult.
“ .. China did absolutely nothing to lower its CO2 emissions, ”
They did say they might, sometime.
They are trying to reduce actual pollutants – – the nasty stuff that makes breathing dangerous. Insofar as CO2 is not one of those things, it can be ignored. The USA and UK did similar many years ago. See The Great Smog of London (1952), and The 1948 Donora smog (near Pittsburgh, PA).
They did say they might, sometime.
Indeed, they promised, at some future date, to begin cutting emissions (but only after allowing themselves decades to increase those emissions as high as they can).
In Britain, with a strong likelihood of a Conservative electoral collapse there is a finite risk of a Marxist Government. Comrade Corbyn with control of our armed forces is a chilling prospect.
Now for your contemplation, I offer you the nightmare scenario of the summit between PM Corbyn and President Sanders, attended by Secretary of State AOC, circa 2021.
With Obama sitting as Life Time Head of the United Nations. (or in his own eyes “President of the World for Life”
Brexit, Oliver Cromwell, George Orwell, and Tony Benn
Not as chilling as handing them over to the EU. May is in the process of doing that. The Balkans and the Ukraine are some guide to how competent the EU is in foreign relations.
So Moonbat thinks Capitalism is the villian, and he wants “massive re-wilding” as part of the change to every-day life? Stop flying and eating meat are small issues compared to “massive re-wilding”. In this scenario people de-volve to living in caves, wearing animal skins for clothes (it’s OK to kill them, just don’t eat them), suffering currently preventable fatal diseases due to lack of electricity, and teaching your children what? How to draw stick figures on cave walls? And Moonbat will participate in all of this? Go ahead and get started George, but please live in a glass-walled cave so people can stare at you (admiringly in your mind).
You misunderstand. What you describe is for the common person, not leaders such as Moonbat sees himself. Because in his world, everyone is equal but some are more equal than others.
The Great Rewilding
A conversation with George Monbiot
George: Yes. Well, we tend to think of elephants, rhinos, lions, hyenas as being tropical animals. They’re not. Europe had a megafauna. We had elephants. We had rhinos. We had lions. All lived here during the last interglacial period, and in southern Europe through most of the last glacial period. In most cases, it seems, human beings were the primary agent of wiping that megafauna out. We now have the opportunity to bring parts of it back
A Manifesto for Rewilding the World
27th May 2013
Since then much of Europe – especially Britain – has lost most of its mesofauna as well: bison, moose, boar, wolf, bear, lynx, wolverine, even, in most parts, wildcat, beavers and capercaillie. These losses, paradoxically, have often been locked in by conservation policy.
Let’s make Britain wild again and find ourselves in nature
The natural world can help save us from climate catastrophe
15 species that should be brought back to rewild Britain
Looking at the list in the last of the links above, I found myself in the unusual , almost unprecedented, position of being in agreement with the Guardian ( with the exception of wolves – the effect on sheep and lambs would be unacceptable; however if they would kill badgers I would waive my veto on wolves).
You generally get a dachshund for badgers. They’ll need some training, but they were bred for it.
The agenda is to promote wildlife at the expense of domestic livestock and humans. The Greenies want to end domestic livestock farming. So they create conflict then resolve all conflicts in favor of wildlife.
Conservation and the Misuse of Science
Hedgehogs, Bats and Badgers
Dr James Irvine
This isn’t anything new. Anyone who pays attention knows that quite a few of left-wingers hate the free market, corporations and capitalism in general. They walk among us is the usual phrase, and in our own families. “These corporations” they say or stomp out of the room calling you a denier if you say the wrong thing. Oh yeah. Well anyway here’s two quotes from my collection of smart remarks & tag lines.
We are setting out to intentionally change the economic model that has been reigning since the Industrial
Revolution. – – – – Christiana Figueres, UN Climate Bigwig
“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse?
Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?” The late Maurice Strong UN Climate Bigwig
There are probably more juicy quotes like that from the George Monbiots of this world.
Click on Quotes.
The agendas of Moonbat’s pals revealed out of their own mouths.
Note the Bankster Rockefellers & multi-billionaires.
They should all be chatting with moonbat in a long room with lovely padded walls.
Instead they’re pushing this planet toward a depopulated Fascist/Communist World Govt.
What is the “heart of capitalism”?… that it creates wealth? Socialisn doesn’t create weakth–it consumes it until the system collapses! Is that what Monbiot is advocating? Then let him experience it first hand and without dragging the rest of the world down with him!
“What is the “heart of capitalism”?”
Freedom of action is at the heart of capitalism. Free enterprise. These Totalitarians want to gain control by taking away the average citizen’s freedom of action. The totalitarians want to be the ones to call the shots, and they want Joe Public to fall in line.
When they say they want to destroy capitalism they are really saying they want to destroy your personal freedoms. They show their contempt for the common person with this political position.
Re. the UK and Corbyn,.
Way back some years ago I saw a drama doc. on the BBC called “The “Guiadians
The scenario was a left wing government takes over, and start to do some very
nasty political things. Then the Armed forces takes over and the head of
the Army becomes the PM.
In view of what has just happened in Egypt its not so way out.
Could almost be a prequel to V for Vendetta…
North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela are excellent examples of places where ‘capitalism’ has ceased to function and in parallel, democracy has been abolished. In Cuba where tentative reversal of the situation is underway, improvements in people’s living conditions are immediately evident. Moonbot makes anarchists look moderate.
The watermelons are finally ditching their green veneer and showing everyone what this is really about – world socialism and the rise of the elites to rule everyone and control all the wealth.
The obvious demand to stop growth is to champion decline? Now Monbiot might like to put that policy into precise terms and tell his applauding audience that it means they lose their cars, their homes, their holidays, their plans for a more comfortable future and for a much reduced life expectancy. Plus death from illness that we can treat today, but won’t be able to treat in his fossil fuel free world.
The other feature he needs to talk about is freedom in all its forms as desired by humans.
There simply won’t be any.
He is a classic false prophet, a man looking for a cause and finding something neither he, or anyone else on earth can control, i.e. climate.
Here is an option he might consider, and set the world an example to follow. Stop using any fossil fuels and stop using any fossil fuel derived product. I would give him three days before he came to reconsider what he wishes the rest of society to do.
I have thought the same lesson would be good for the teachers espousing the no fossil fuel philosophy.
Their pupils would have to use slates with a piece of chalk to write on as they did in Victorian times.
The classrooms would be pretty chilly and dark, as no glass in the windows (needs gas to produce glass).
Recently on this blog there was a very comprehensive list of the items we use that have a fossil fuel component. Each pupil should be given a copy of the list and tick off the items they would be prepared to sacrifice in order to achieve their objectives. Not many I think, except for those things that ‘other people’ would have to do without
You can find a partial list at:
stupid is as stupid does
“Climate change will create an opening for socialist politics by breaking the link between capitalist growth and political legitimacy.”
Democratic Socialists of America
Gee whiz, another self-promoting jerk whose real agenda is destruction of the human species.
He hates capitalism, huh? Okay, take away all his “stuff” that is produced by capitalism and see how long he lasts. All that electronic communications junk that people take for granted now – I don’t have anything but a desktop computer and a flip phone and I only have the phone because I hike a lot and want it in my pocket, in case I run into a rabid werewolf or something.
He doesn’t just hate capitalism; he hates the entire human species and wants to see us gone. I think he should go first – set the example, that sort of thing. This antagonism toward his own species is a mental issue. No one is forcing him, or any of the rest of these weasels, to live amongst us. (No offense meant to weasels in general.) But he is so desperate for attention that he lets the rest of us know just how much he despises us. Quite a paradox there.
Seriously, the more I see of people like this, the more I do believe that they need their own planet, or at least a reservation where they can live in splendid squalor, but never leave. Then the rest of us can get on with our lives.
Moonbat knows that the power of envy can move many people.
That is the left’s method. Yes, the socialist precious lie —
“Overthrow capitalism! Stop the rich getting richer. Stop the poor getting poorer!”
As if such a thing could be true.
Socialism the world over has failed. It certainly always failed to help the poor, it always assists to elevate the socialist elite to dictatorial success.
always assists to elevate the socialist elite to dictatorial excess – there, fify
One defining behaviour of Moonbat is his fastidious preparation for media
appearancesambushes (check for no effective debaters, on-side production team and preferably a naive victim and total editorial control, live is no-no) – as I posted above he has a willing bunch of collaborators – especially inside the UK’s state broadcaster – so he irritatingly pops up to provide unchallenged tosh on a regular basis.
I’d guess he has the largest block list of any UK environmentalist on Twitter – George doesn’t do challenges unless he’s the challenger…
“Overthrow capitalism! Stop the rich getting richer. Stop the poor getting poorer!”
As if such a thing could be true.
Actually, in “socialist utopia” The rich (and most everyone else) will have stopped getting richer, in fact they’ll get to be equally as poor as the poor (that’s if they don’t get executed or imprisoned for resisting the confiscation of their wealth). And the poor will also stop getting poorer (once you’ve reached the very bottom, you can’t go any lower) but they certainly won’t get any richer either – they’ll remain desperately poor. Only the “leaders” (regardless of what class they originally belonged to) get to enjoy the wealth and comforts that once belonged to the rich.
That is a very violent and dangerous statement to make. Ending capitalism…is equivalent to ending personal property rights and free exchange. Sounds to me like fighting words.
At least they are telling the truth out loud now. What the whole Climate Fraud is really all about.
There is no way for an international body to expropriate (i.e. steal) $120 Trillion of personal property and another $150 Trillion in monetary assets from several billion people without inciting great conflict leading to great violence.
If they come onto my property to take mine they better bring a tank.
These are dangerous people.
I assume the US Military, sworn to defend the Constitution (private property and all) will intervene if it gets serious, so the outcome of any violence should not be in doubt.
Of course the plan is to get our own Representatives and Senators to surrender our sovereignty without a fight…and that could happen if the traitorous Democrats win both Houses and the Presidency.
It’s past time for Trump to take bold action to put an end to this fraud. Get the National Security Climate panel seated and get to work. AND HIRE SOME PROFESSIONAL PR PEOPLE TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT CLEARLY…AND EFFECTIVELY…and keep at it day after day for months. Tweeting alone isn’t going to cut it. Get some intelligent attractive female press professionals out there who can embarrass that idiot AOC enough get every serious person laughing at her…and to dismiss the lying Fake News MSM.
Well on the plus side, it would seem the climate alarmists have finally accepted climate has nothing to do with CO2 per se. Now the socialists are realising the scientific community are coming together as a body to deny the nonsense put out by the likes of Hansen, Gore, and Mann. They are aware that they need a new villain and what do you know, they decide to come right out and blame humanity.
One of the most basic of human traits is to improve their life. The desire to stop being cold created a clothes industry i.e. capitalism. The desire to stop feeling hungry created the hunting and the farming industry i.e capitalism. The desire to protect loved ones and to feel safe, created the weapons and security organisations i.e. capitalism. The desire to improve living conditions created hygiene, drainage, clean water and clean living spaces, i.e capitalism.
Only a socialist blind to human nature and the true living environment, could imagine destruction of capitalism is anything other than, the destruction of humanity.
Capitalism can’t be destroyed. It’s the way the world works.
It can be corrupted, impeded, ridiculed, misunderstood, suppressed, etc., but it’s the only viable system of economic interaction devoid of ideology. At its core it’s simply people reciprocally trading to their own self-perceived advantage. Where it fails, it does so because of selfish small-mindedness — an attitude common to all humans and all political systems. It’s not capitalism that’s the problem; it’s the evil in the hearts of men.
Yep. I’ve got a dollar and you have a banana. I want the banana and you want my dollar. We trade. Pure, clean capitalism.
Socialism would have made you split the banana with me and taken my dollar “for the people”.
Well I’m the Fearless Leader with the next Great Leap Forward and we can’t have these counter-revolutionary capitalist arguments so I’ll have the banana and the dollar thanks.
I agree but don’t see where capitalism has “failed”. It has evolved as the most efficient way to promote free markets and prosperity. Although sometimes plagued by kleptocratic cronyism, capitalist economies thrive while socialist bureaucracies regularly collapse.
Capitalism = shared wealth = consumerism+freedom of choice = CO2 = BAD
Socialism = poverty = less CO2 + ruling elite living in luxury = GOOD
It is the enticing perception by the young and the less wealthy that income disparity is evil. Thus they are then set up for the notion that there will be less of an income difference under Socialism. What they can’t comprehend is:
– the poorest in a capitalist system are much better off than the poor in a socialist system.
– the economy is not a zero sum game; Bill Gates getting $ 1 more does not mean someone else has to lose a dollar.
A small correction, if I may:
under capitalism the economy is not a zero sum game.
Under socialism it usually is.
Hope you didn’t mind!
The poor in capitalism are better off than most of the middle class under socialism.
Thus they are then set up for the notion that there will be less of an income difference under Socialism.
Indeed, what they don’t realize is that it won’t be because everyone will be rich (IE the poor rising up to the level of the rich), but rather because everyone (except the “leadership”) will be equally poor (IE the rich and middle class sinking down to the level of the poor)..
I guess my only question is, what do these people plan to replace capitalism (aka freedom and free markets) with? We’re they not paying attention to what happened in the 20th century, or do the really think they will get it right this time?
Socialists are certainly aware of its failures but every generation is convinced they can do it better and thus make it work this time.
There’s a reason socialism takes root mainly with the young and inexperienced. They didn’t live/don’t remember what it was like in the 20th century, what happened then is “ancient history” and thus of no import in their view. It’s easy to repeat the mistakes of the past when you are ignorant about that past.
I personally believe the whole point of the environmentalist movement is to replace individual nations with a global communist regime with the UN in charge. I saved a copy of the 2011 Copenhagen draft treaty and actually read part of it. Here are some interesting tidbits I found. (Source: https://unfccc.int/resource/docs/2011/awglca14/eng/crp38.pdf )
And I could go on. But doesn’t all this sound a lot like a global government? And this was 7 years ago. Do you think the UN has backed down? I don’t, especially since the socialists and globalists seem to be gaining more and more worshipers. I am not going to put a time down, but I really believe that one day the leftist media and the ignorant millennial will celebrate our new UN overlords — er, comrades. But socialism/communism is unsustainable on a national level (unless you become capitalists while still claiming to be communist like China). It will be even more unsustainable on an international level. And that will be an interesting day for people like millennials and Monbiot who never had to work hard to survive under capitalism.
“stopping climate breakdown.”
Apparently “climate disruption” didn’t pull enough heart strings so now they move on to “climate breakdown”.
How long before we get to “climate loss”?
Climate departure ?
An inter-company no-flight list for green zealots is more than a necessity.
Politically correct indeed, offering them the opportunity to demonstrate their commitment to fossil fuel independence.
Does anyone know how Moonbat lives? I presume he eats meat, drive a nice car, heats his home, wears clothes, has a phone, etc… In other words he wants the good life for himself, but the serfs should eat leaves and roots and wear grass skirts?
Don’t trust anyone who makes kids eat live fish.
The story of the Pilgrims settling America is well worth studying. Originally everyone worked for the common good and starvation was the result. They changed the system, everyone worked for the benefit of their family and the colony prospered.
What a surprise. The first system mandated equal outcome. The second system mandated equal opportunity.
Worker ants have equality of outcome. Breeding pairs of birds in a bird colony have equality of opportunity.
I can’t wait for the fall of capitalism and the rise of socialism. I have this three ton truck and a team of ruthless chums and a LIST of lefty loudmouths who will be skimmed off and never seen again. It’s what always happens tho airbrushing photos is more difficult these days.
For socialism to work the serfs need to try harder, consume less, give more, work harder, sacrifice more to the great leaders like Moonbat.
ALERT! WARNING! WARNING!
As Tom in Florida pointed out above, we are seeing the birth of a new meme by the climate alarmists. Just as they had to replace “global warming” with “climate change” when some—ahem—inconvenient truths were pointed out and when the public tired of hearing the same old chant, it appears to now have come to the point that “climate change” itself is running into more than a few contrary historical and paleoclimatology facts and it too is running out of steam in its ability to incite public alarm.
Recent polls show that concern over “climate change” is not what it was a decade ago. Something must be done immediately!
The publicity, money and power will only keep flowing to the climate alarmists if they really up the rhetoric. Hence, it’s no longer useful to tell people that the climate may be changing (duh). It has to be that the climate is going to completely “breakdown” due to human activity if something is not done in the next 10 years or so . . . yeah, that’s the ticket!
I give it 3 months, tops, before the meme is picked up by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders and spreads like wildfire (pun intended) through the media. Al Gore and Michael Mann will likely be too embarrassed that each did not originate this meme, so we probably won’t hear much from them on this.
Historical note: George Monbiot was the original Moonbat. So Christened by a blooger named Charles Johnson at his blog “littlegreenfootballs.com” back around 2002. The issue at the time was Islamist terrorism.
“We’ve got to go straight to the heart of capitalism and overthrow it.” @GeorgeMonbiot on the only hope we have of stopping climate breakdown.
If you ever, for a moment, thought that climate hysteria was anything but a thin cover for communism, think again.
The hysterics are not in the least interested in the weather. They are interested in political power to impose their communist vision.
And nothing else.
Use the correct word: distactorship. Communism is just a masking word for it.
Eeewww!!! That should be DICTATORSHIP.
Too early. Not enough caffeine. Sorry. I will speak to my keyboard about it.
If climate changes dramatically, and changes for the worse (I don’t view warming as for the worse, and I don’t care if change is 100% natural or has a human component, too), then we will need the wealth created by capitalism to adapt. Adaptation is how we’ve dealt with climate variations in the past.
I have six inches of white, wet, heavy climate change on my front steps.
Normally, I would not mind, but it is APRIL, for Pete’s sake. I will have to keep feeding the birds until June if we get any more – and my “climate change indicator” says we might. 🙂
I found the video clip here. Warming… some naughty language.
28:28 mins total. Monbiot starts at 17 mins.
Frankie Boyle’s NWO (S3 Ep3)
Featuring Sara Pascoe, Miles Jupp, Kiri Pritchard-McLean, Jen Brister and George Monbiot.
Thanks for posting the video link. It provides absolute proof of what a moron Monbiot is.
Starting at 19:33 in, he states: “Like, in the Younger Dryas (climate transient), 11,000 . . . 10,800 years ago, Greenland temperatures rose 10 degrees in one decade . . . 10 degrees, just by a (snaps his fingers) fip. And you go from basically an inhabitable planet to an uninhabitable planet. And, that . . . that could just happen.”
In response, I offer:
1) Humans existed before, during and after the Younger Dryas climate transient. Planet Earth did not become uninhabitable despite his asserted Younger Dryas temperature rise rate of 10 degrees (assumed to be degrees C per common use in Europe) PER DECADE . . . and compare this to the IPCC and Paris Climate Accord hand wringing over model projections of 1 to 3 degrees C global warming PER CENTURY.
2) I believe Monbiot botched his statement about the 10 C/decade warming rate associated with Younger Dryas by a factor of ten. My information on this transient shows that upon exiting the Younger Dryas cold period starting 11,750 years ago, global temperatures (based on Greenland ice cores) increased at a rate of 10.7 C/century for a duration of about 75 years, a rate more than 10 times higher than Earth’s global temperature rise rate measured over the last 30 years. This high temperature rise rate happened despite global atmospheric CO2 level remaining relatively constant at 240-260 ppm.
(3) Monbiot seems completely unaware that his statements in fact disprove that mankind activities are the main driver of climate change. There were no any urban areas, manufacturing plants, power generating facilities, cement production plants, or transportation vehicles 11,000 to 10,800 years ago. Also, as indicated in #2 above, paleoclimate proxies indicate that global atmospheric CO2 levels during Younger Dryas were 59-63 % LOWER than the present atmospheric CO2 concentration.
They dumped “Global Warming” because it was too confining. “Climate Change” is too bland and not fear inducing. After all, change maybe for the better.
Climate Breakdown® is the new meme. It is designed to induce fear, which is what is supposed to drive us to demand communism, because only fear of something worse could drive us there.
Capitalism is nothing more than free-exchange and markets making use of borrowed money. That’s it. The use of borrowed money is what makes it possible for the most insignificant commoner to invest and grow wealth along with the elite.
I’m not sure he realizes it, but he’s stating very clearly that the problem is human beings and the modern life style. He’s clearly saying that the problem can only be resolved by getting rid of human beings and assuring those who are left live in conditions approaching those of the stone age.
Why is Moonbat going after capitalism when communist China is the largest emitter of CO2 and continues to increase emissions, thanks to the Paris Accords?
Capitalists don’t properly appreciate and reward academics such as MoonBat. That proves that capitalism is broken and must be replaced by a system where academics such as MoonBat make all the decisions for the rest of us.
The above comment on mankind eliminating some big animals in North America is one issue.
Another is the growing number of critters that plague our cities.
Vancouver, on the edge of a mountainous rain forest, has quite a variety:
Urban mountain lions, urban bears, urban coyotes, urban raccoons, urban skunks and urban socialists.
The latter are the most pernicious.
Then you might find this news quote funny:
By turning off the taps of the flow of oil to BC.
For those who don’t follow Canadian politics (and those who are tired of Trump this Trump that might find it refreshing … well, at least different). There is an election in Alberta (which is being strangled economically because it can’t get oil to market) and BC is ruled by green socialists who think all oil should stay locked in the ground, while meanwhile there is a shortage of oil and refineries so the Pacific Northwest including BC has really high gasoline prices, especially BC.
Can’t be George he’s in Wales tending his raised veg beds!
Ok, lets try and be fare to Moonbat.
Going for the heart of capitalism is going for the destruction of the capital economy, the heart.
Which is and stands in substance as the main backbone of the world’s economy.
Even been so before even the Moonbat was borne.
And it, it did not come around or happened to be implemented by the means of any premeditated plan.
It simply came to be as a result of human activity and natural historical cultural social civic evolution, over time…civic-civil evolution…based firmly in the proper success of free sharing and free trade means.
The other thing is, that in all consideration of aspects, whatever merit one sees or can claim in the prospect
of such as radical engagement due to any kind of radical ideology, still one has to consider the very need of the new millennial generation being in tune and in board with that proposed transformation offered…
That ain’t going a happen…that is impossible.
The new generation takes capital economy for granted, contrary to Moonbat…
thanks to generative natural social civic evolution over time…which for all that is known can not be reversed or destroyed. (where only plain sinister and malevolent stupidity can contemplate it as possible)
Having the millennials to be considered as the force to rely on for the destruction of the capital economy,
will be like engaging in the most silly impossible whack a mole game…
where at some point the new generation after being tired of the whole abuse and ideological injustice and criminal indoctrination, will turn around and look at sillies and stupids like Moonbat with blazing red eyes… and posing the question:
“How could you and your likes could even flirt with the idea of doing this injustice to us, and also in same time considering that you can get away with this…from us the ever less tolerant ever being up to this point in time, in the matters of injustice and social anarchy??!!”…
“How could you be so silly and arrogant and manipulative and abusing with all this stupidity against us and what we are meant to be,,, the new generation, who has to be the next holders and keeping the torche moving forward ??!”
“How can you really ask us to participate in the destruction of our future, and expect support, and in the same time likes of you still flirting with the idea of no consequences??!!”
The inscription on the sword in the hand of the blind (eye folded) Lady reads:
“The fate through the Old and New Generation’s Justice and Fairness”
Maybe gone a bit harsh and running in the rain …but hey only speaking my mind.
If I understand that group of words, you’re trying to claim that the young (millenniums) will be prevented from destroying the world’s economies because the “adults” will realize that that destruction is harmful, and so must be prevented.
Sorry, Won’t happen. Today’s youth are re-educated so poorly and by so much socialist propaganda for so long that even the fundamental “truth” that “Socialism fails, and requires absolute power to be applied absolutely everywhere” cannot be heard. Today’s youth, teenagers, millenniums, working, and seniors hear “Right to Free (everything)”. And their minds stop. (Assuming their minds ever started at all.)
April 14, 2019 at 12:51 pm
No, completely in the contrary.
It is within the given condition of the new generation response to “survive” or excel at the best outcome possible…
just a matter of time till the young generation realizes where the injustice and lies and deception comes from.
A New generation by default always is in it’s core a better version than the Old… with all the headaches involved…and risks associated.
By default this new generation (as any new generation) is and happens to be far much less tolerant towards injustice and anarchy and malevolence in society, than earlier ones.
due to the higher life standards in a wider environmental freedom, given and being accommodated for granted, due to the success over time of the implementation of the capital economy…globally.
So at some point the realization of the manipulation and indoctrination and malevolence involved, will kick in…
but still support from the old sane generation part will be and has to be offered at max possible,
as always happened to be in the past history of humanity and civic evolution…
the thing that most needed by the new generation towards a productive steady progressing future…outside the chance of self social destruction or the anarchy clause…
the bonus of knowledge and learning through experience, transcending over by’-from the Old to the New.
Hope this will be clear enough explanation of the made point.
Please feel free to pose any other questions or arguments in relation of this made point.
Ok, lets try and be fare to Moonbat.
Eh? you want to pay for his bus/taxi/uber ride?
Though to be fair, I understood what you meant but just couldn’t resist the grammatical nit pick.
Novara Media = the “company” running the show is an avowedly communist/marxist outfit who were recently shut down by the UK company authorities for not filing accounts – only to pop up again …. with a fresh source of funds….
The use of the “charity” sector and CIC “not for profit” companies is a sump of dodgy left fly-by-night covert funding – would not be surprised one bit if the usual suspect when it comes to funding gobby unhinged loons like Moonbat – has his minions priming the Novara bilge pump.
Monbiot may be (almost) unique among green opinion-makers. He really, really believes that there is no alternative to dismantling industrial society to avoid climate disaster. His urge to overthrow capitalism flows from his version of environmentalism; not the other way round.
What he would like to replace capitalism with is probably more like feudalism, where we all live (or not, as the case may be) at the pleasure of the monarch and the feudal lords, rather than the industrialised communist and fascist societies of the 20th century. Tibet before the Chinese takeover may have been the last functioning feudal society (and is still widely perceived as some sort of paradise).
The Arcadian myth is something that seems to be hard-wired in the brains of many of us. A pastoral paradise in harmony with nature, no wars, no disease, no floods, no droughts, no plagues of locusts (and on and on). Fortunately, it doesn’t take much reading to appreciate that Arcadia never existed. Monbiot seems to believe in the Arcadian myth, big-time. Good luck with that.
But he ends up in the loony left space *every* time by a circuitous path.
As I keep repeating – his pronouncements are dignified by regular unchallenged appearances in the UK’s mainstream media and creative sectors – facilitated largely by tosspots who’re sucking on fat sinecures and don’t want to come out as erm…. hypocrites and liars.
Don’t remember where I heard this, but here it is:
In a socialist system, the people wait in line to buy bread (as they did in the old USSR). In a free market system, the bread waits on the shelf for you to buy it.
I’m not a big fan of waiting in long lines, so I’ll take the free market system. If George Monbiot finds his way into a UK govt position with Jeremy Corbyn as prime minister, I will pray for the country. They’ll need it.
That’s right, get rid of capitalism so that we can adopt the Soviet Union’s economic model. That would work miracles for climate change, except some of Europe’s greatest concentrations of air and water pollution were found in E. Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and the USSR itself. It’s as\ good thing that whole empire collapsed; otherwise, the Greens would really have something to complain about. Yet we still have kooks like Monbiot (a.k.a. the Great Moonbat) advocating a similar system.
Ultimately the price of goods under capitalism relates to the work (energy) and resources (animal, vegetable and mineral) used to create them. So let’s start getting rid of the expensive stuff like houses, cars, tains, boats, planes mobile phones, computers, consumer electronics. All we need is a small amount of food, drink and clothing for warmth and modesty. After you Moonbat.
George Monbiot Q + A – How rejuvenating nature could help fight climate change
I think natural climate solutions now need to be urgently deployed by all governments, alongside extremely rapid reduction in energy consumption and substitution of fossil fuels. To avoid full-spectrum climate breakdown, we need a global cooperative effort on a scale that has not yet materialised. My hope is that the new, uncompromising mood among young people, and the brilliant protest movements, such as the Youth Strike4Climate and Extinction Rebellion, will help to make this happen
George Monbiot Wants To Make Civilisation An International Crime Against Humanity
Ecocide” Would Criminalize Resource Development
I have written often here of the threat posed by the “nature rights” movement, designed by radical environmentalists to thwart large scale development and extraction of natural resources by allowing anyone to sue to uphold nature’s “rights” to “exist and persist.” The movement has been gaining ground for the last several years, most recently with voters in Toledo granting “rights” to Lake Erie.
Think of “nature rights” as a metaphorical shield against human thriving from the bounties of the earth. But radical environmentalists also have a spear — the “ecocide” movement. Ecocide activists are striving to enact international laws that would punish those who make large-scale uses of nature as criminals, equivalently odious as perpetrators of genocide and ethnic cleansing. In other words, oil-industry executives and the like could find themselves in the dock at The Hague facing years in prison.
Once Fringe, But No Longer
Ecocide, like “nature rights,” was once fringe within environmentalism. But like its “nature rights” cousin, that is no longer true. Over the last several years the movement’s primary spokeswoman, Polly Higgins, traveled the world proselytizing to much fanfare and increasing acceptance. She even presented at the UN.
Higgins is apparently dying of cancer. But the ecocide cause won’t die with her. For example, it was just endorsed by the Guardian’s environmental columnist, George Monbiot. From “The Destruction of the Earth Is a Crime. It Should Be Prosecuted”:
One of the effects of the Big Blowout of 08 has been that we have a large number of people aged early 30’s and down, who are discovering that things are not panning out as they expected. So no ability to get a mortgage, and jobs that they will think do not match up to what their lightly earned Degree should be pulling in.
So its hardly surprising that middle aged trendies such as Monbiot get traction with the group ?
Just wait until interest rates start up again at some point, as they must do ? The Capitalism Bad mantra will get even more exposure. To paraphrase the words of Tiny Tim, God help us one and all 🙂