Mann’s media buddies leave him high and dry – oppose his lawsuit

24 Media Organizations Oppose Defamation Suit Waged by Climate Scientist

BY WILLIAM PATRICK

Twenty-four media organizations, including The Washington Post, NBC Universal, and Fox News, have sided with the conservative National Review and free market-leaning Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) over a defamation lawsuit brought by a leading climate scientist.

The organizations, which also included the Society of Professional Journalists and the American Civil Liberties Union of the District of Columbia, were signatories to a Feb. 13, letter filed with the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, in which both the National Review and the Competitive Enterprise Institute requested a rehearing of their case before the full appeals court.

In December 2018, a three-judge panel amended a previous ruling against them. But according to the Reporters Committee for the Freedom of the Press, which represents the two-dozen media groups, a full rehearing of the case is now “warranted.”

“The panel’s decision on the merits of plaintiff’s defamation claim … may have unintended and undesirable consequences in future cases implicating the exercise of amici’s right to freedom of speech and of the press,” attorneys for the Reporters Committee stated.

The letter also said that if a rehearing is granted, the Reporters Committee would file a new amicus brief further articulating its First Amendment concerns, and would seek to take part in oral arguments.

The dispute began in July 2012, when an adjunct analyst at the CEI posted a column on the Washington-based think tank’s website, criticizing world-renowned climate scientist Michael Mann and a 2010 investigation of his work by Pennsylvania State University, where he serves as director of the university’s Earth System Science Center.

Mann is credited with developing the so-called “hockey stick graph,” which shows a centuries-long duration of stable climate temperatures and a sharp, upward-sloping temperature increase in recent decades.

Full story here

216 thoughts on “Mann’s media buddies leave him high and dry – oppose his lawsuit

      • Don’t you mean the massive influx of CO2 to the tune of 200 additional parts per million. How could a brain not be affected.
        Why “I can feel it coming in the air tonight. Oh Lord… Can you feel it coming in the air tonight Oh Lord, oh Lord. “

    • Then you haven’t been paying attention. ACLU ALWAYS defends the First Amendment.

      As do virtually all serious news and reporting organizations.

      As do most Americans, by the way.

      But not Trump who constantly complains that the US needs to beef up its laws to suppress news media.

        • Which is actually why they are opposing this because if defamation is set at that low level they could not survive. Imagine if they published someone was a “shill of the oil companies” that would be defamation. The law cuts both ways and they make a living out of publishing inflammatory news articles, tabloid newspapers as such would be shutdown.

        • Government does not get to decide who is “fake” or not.

          You obviously don’t comprehend what the Constitution says.

          “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

          Only tyrants, like wannabe tyrant Trump, claim the right to determine which speech is “fake” and which speech is real. Of course, all speech is and always has been real, unless generated by a machine, like the fake social media bots that worked on behalf of Trump in the 2016 election, as determined by all 17 US intelligence agencies .. a determination that the wannabe tyrant Trump calls “fake”.

          The only fake is Trump, who has been determined to have stated at least 8,700 lies since his inauguration, an average of greater than 11 lies every single day. Trump is the Gaslighter in Chief.

          • But this article isn’t about President Trump, it is about the misdeeds of Michael Mann. All you are doing is hijacking the thread to further your rant against the elected leader of the USA.

          • Duane

            You must have missed the years-long kerfuffle over numerous peaceful conservative “patriot” rallies that were demagogue by Democrats (Nancy Pelosi) as “terrorist” meetings.

            But then the job of a troll is to be resiliently & willfully ignorant.

          • TDS does not make any of your theories or claims correct.

            ACLU has been decidedly political for a number of years now.
            If the “ACLU ALWAYS defends the First Amendment”, they would be defending many people who have been censored by Google, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Youtube, etc. etc.

            Start listing Trump’s lies,explicitly. Fake numbers mean nothing.
            Then start listing Obama’s lies and HRC’s lies.

            Both Obama and HRC tell/told lies to whatever audience was in front of them based upon what they believed the audience wanted.
            “You can keep your insurance”,
            “You can keep your doctors”,
            “I am not against coal mines”, etc. etc. etc.

          • “Government does not get to decide who is “fake” or not.”

            Obama and the Democrats don’t agree with you.

          • Excuse me, but the President of the U.S. calling news outlets “fake news” does not violate the First Amendment.

            There is no attempt to prevent the press from publishing. No attempt to have the Government punish them for publishing.

            What Donald Trump is doing is exercising HIS right to free speech. A right guaranteed in the same amendment that protects the press.

            You don’t lose that right simply by winning an election.

            You just don’t like the fact that he’s been effective in pointing out the biased reporting of the press.

          • Hey have you ever misspoke? Got your “facts” or got the order of events incorrect?

            So you are perfect? A golden halo of celestial energy hovers above your head?

            Thrown any stones lately.

            There is so much to be known these days it is impossible to get right all the time. You sit down on national interview or in front of law enforcement after being mirandized let’s see how well you do. I extend this courtesy to even the ones I loathe to hear to speak.

          • Trump has a first amendment right to call CNN et al “fake news” just so long as he doesn’t do as Wilson and Lincoln did shut down those that criticize him.

          • “Only tyrants, like wannabe tyrant Trump, claim the right to determine which speech is “fake” and which speech is real.”

            Trump, like every other citizen, has the right to say if he thinks a news story is fake or not. Trump doesn’t try to make the Fake News shut up. He does try to shame them into telling the truth.

            Trump says the Fake News is dangerous to the nation’s future. Trump’s detractors say this means Trump wants to banish or silence the News Media. What Trump really wants is for the New Media to stop lying because their lies are hurting the country. Trump wants to do away with the lies, not the news media.

            The United States can’t survive on lies.

          • “The only fake is Trump, who has been determined to have stated at least 8,700 lies since his inauguration”

            Leftist have distorted everything Trump has said from the beginning of his presidency and now Leftists have determined that Trump lied at least 8,700 times.

            Consider the real source of the lies and the determination.

            Let me ask a question: Of those 8,700 lies, were any of them consequential lies?

          • The biggest and most consequential lie that Trump professes is that the media is the “enemy of the people.” When he says this, he’s sticking his middle finger at the First Amendment of our Constitution which mentions “freedom of the press.”

          • The MSM is engaging in a non-stop propaganda operation. They aren’t practicing journalism. Anyone impartial can see it. You lefties are just too wrapped up in your plans to control everything we do. Total central control by your leftwing benevolent dictators can’t happen soon enough.

            You guys don’t care about global warming. BY YOUR OWN NUMBERS (applying the IPCC falsifible climate model numbers to the UN Plans), WE’LL WASTE ~$50 TRILLION TO REDUCE TEMPERATURES BY ABOUT 1/10 OF A DEGREE.

            AGW is just a tool for the acquisition of power.

            Trump has every right to engage in middle finger demonstrations toward the lying propaganda media.

            He’s not pressing charges or sicking his prosecutors on those liars.

            You obviously don’t understand the first amendment which is a proscription against infringement upon the freedom of speech BY THE GOVERNMENT. That does not mean that the President is not allowed to point out when liars are lying. He just cannot “press charges” or prosecute liars for lying.

            You leftists are the ones that want to shut HIM up. Y’all have a great tolerance for tyranny when it supports your agendas.

          • Donald Trump is such a frightening tyrant that people are free to say whatever they want about him in any venue they choose!
            Also, the biggest political lie of the 21st Century is “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health plan you can keep your health plan.” (The 2nd biggest lie is that Trump has told 8,700 lies)

          • You disagree with me, so “you obviously don’t comprehend” is the acid attack of a patronizing jerk. Could you imagine being married to this guy, or being his business partner?

          • @Matt
            [blockquote]You disagree with me, so “you obviously don’t comprehend” is the acid attack of a patronizing jerk. Could you imagine being married to this guy, or being his business partner?[/blockquote]
            Ad hominem (name calling) attacks do not advance an argument.

          • Funny how lies never mattered to your ilk until Trump was elected. Your perception of the obvious is ‘lacking’.

          • God your ignorant. The “fake social media bots” You mean like the ones that were bought and paid for by DEMOCRATS so they could claim Russian support for Republicans?

            https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democratic-operatives-created-fake-russian-bots-in-alabama-race-designed-to-link-kremlin-to-republican-roy-moore

            Everyone knows the Russians like everyone else thought Hillary would win. So, they wanted to undermine her future support. A weak president helps them and your posts prove it worked. Just not in the way they were planning. By the way the Russian bot factories were reported on by the RUSSIAN media way before the Presidential election. Even showed docs from their Moscow dumpster showing trying to sow discord. So, by arguing from your ignorance, you are in effect being played like a fiddle by the Russians and now have become the Russian bot.

          • Duane forgot the IRS silencing Tea Party groups. Direct suppression of free speech by Gov’t. But that was OK since it was Obama admin.

        • WaPo has an unfortunate habit of jumping to conclusions. That “new organization” is facing a massive defamation suit regarding their repeated stories that a bunch of high school students waiting for a bus at the Lincoln Memorial blocked the path of a man pounding a drum, who had walked up to them and got in one kid’s face.

          They published six successive articles about it, repeating the same accusations, which were completely WRONG, and are backed up by videos showing that the drum beater inflicted himself on the student, NOT the other way around.

          WaPo does everything it can to grab attention. It is backfiring on them. So if Mann decides that WaPo is libeling him, I”d say he has a right to make that accusation as long as he can back it up. Maybe he’ll get enough money of that worthless rag to retire. Now think about that for a minute.

          • Maybe Bezos can finally force Mann to start providing discovery documents — which is what will sink Mann’s case, and which the courts have cheated us of for a decade now in Mann v. Steyn.

            It’s too bad the House didn’t start impeachment proceedings against a few biased judges while the Republicans still controlled the House.

        • Hey Dirkse, I dare you to put in the words before your quote.”Trump professes is that the media is the “enemy of the people.”” Come on tell us the what was said before “enemy of the people”. I double dog dare you. Then tell me if you disagree with it.

      • There are 5 (as I count them) guarantees in the First Amendment. The ACLU, the media and “most Americans” don’t even pretend to care about four of them. They just pretend they don’t exist.

        • Yes, and of the five freedoms listed, the freedom ‘of the press’ is the most misconstrued. The news media would, through both arrogance and ignorance, have us believe that this confers special protections to journalists and journalist alone. However, nothing could be farther from the truth.

          The ‘press’, in 18th century usage, refers to any published or printed materials and those that create them. In fact, regulary published newpapers did not become common until the early 19th century and the first use of the word ‘press’ to collectively refer to journalists was in the early 20th century, 1921 to be exact.

          Thus, the New York Times has no greater freedoms or protections in this regard than does WUWT or Mad Magazine.

        • The Constitution is still the Constitution and the Supreme Law of the United States of America.

          The Constitution was written and ratified in order to prevent exactly the kind of wannabe tyrant that Trump is from actually taking over and stifling free speech and a free press.

          Here’s a test: any political leader who proposes restrictions on our Constitutional rights of free speech and the media is a wannabe tyrant, no exceptions.

          There is no such thing as freedom of any kind without freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Those two freedoms ensure all the other freedoms in our Constitution.

          • Duane, you have wandered off topic. You wrote that the ACLU always defends the 1st Amendment. But that is only 1/5 true, at best.

            Where was the ACLU when Congress was establishing GlobalCoolingWarmingChange as a national religion? (Or Marxism or Molech worship, etc.)

          • There’s that “wannabe tyrant” reference again. You’ve programmed yourself to be a one-trick pony, it seems.

            Nothing says “wannabe tyrant” more than Trump’s stance on gun control, lol.

          • Duane:

            I agree with you that freedom of speech and freedom of the press is fundamental to our freedoms.

            You are of course referring to Trump’s (almost) daily pronouncements against the lying propaganda from the press… when you categorize him as a wannabe tyrant.

            TRUMP HAS NEVER SAID THE PRESS DOESN’T HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIE ABOUT HIM EVERY DAY. Trump is just pointing out their lies and deceptions…it’s called rebuttal. That’s his right. He understands what he’s up against, and unlike most cowardly politicians he fights back.

            This is part of what “Cleaning up the Swamp” looks like…even if Trump’s methods aren’t as clean and polite as I’d prefer…our freedoms depend on draining the swamp. The swamp IS ILLEGITIMATE UNELECTED POWER of entrenched institutions…and some ultra powerful individuals and groups who support and live in the swamp.

            When the media is used as a propaganda tool for those who want to control everything individuals do (i.e. leftist socialists who you probably support), freedoms are not being protected…it’s a freedom misused in the quest for power against individual freedoms.

            Because we have free speech we can say whatever we want about the lying propagandists in the MSM and their stupid supporters like you.

            I’m speaking out against you in support of Trump’s freedom of speech right now in case you aren’t following this rebuttal. I’ll bet you’d love to shut him…and me… up, wouldn’t you. I’m gonna bet that you are are a wannabe tyrannical system (leftist socialism) supporter.

            I don’t want to be a “free man” in your utopian world. No thanks.

          • Duane’s upset that Trump is using executive orders to get things done.
            However when Democrat president’s use executive orders, he’s nowhere to be found.

          • Which is usually in between wanting to tear it up.

            Too many examples, but before the 2016 election, they were happy with the Electoral College because it meant that a populist like Trump might be able to say anything to get the popular vote, but he’d never get elected…

          • Duane, Trump has never indicated any wish to restrict freedom of the press. Criticising them is a legitimate excersise of his freedom of speech. Can you tell us when Trump ever suggested putting a legal constraint on the press? He didn’t and you know it. Therefore your “wannabe tyrant” phrase is just nonsense. Personally I don’t blame him for being very critical, because never before has the media conducted such a sustained witch hunt against a President with so much bias and yes, fake news. If you look further afield you might also find the established free press trying very hard to shut down rival independent news media. They believe in Ist. amendment rights for themselves, but not for everyone.

          • @D. Dirkse kicking Acostas out of the White House because of his self aggrandizing, boorish behavior, which embarrasses the rest of the press staff, is not a First Amendment violation. He, and CNN, would have in no case been prevented from ‘publishing’ anything they wanted to. If it were a 1st Amendment violation, then it is a 1st Amendment violation to not let any self-styled reporter into the White House.

          • …Colman: “Trump has never indicated any wish to restrict freedom of the press.”

            https://www.whitehousedossier.com/2018/11/13/cnn-sues-trump-administration-reinstate-acostas-press-pass/

            Confiscating a reporter’s pass to the White House is not restricting freedom of the press, just as not giving a White House pass to every single media member is not restricting freedom of the press.

            If someone brings a licensed gun to the White House and has it confiscated, is that “indicating a wish to restrict” the Second Amendment in your world?

          • Duane: Tell me what speech is being prevented because of Trump? 1 man, who has the courage to tell the truth about the left media. Tell me or close the pie hole.

          • So Duane are you in agreement then that Obama is a wanna be tyrant since his administration did restrict the free speech of Tea Party members and affiliates by denying them the same charitable status the IRS granted liberal groups preventing them from expressing their opinions in Gov’t elections. (If your not registered by the gov’t then you can’t collectively voice opinions about candidates or issues w/o violating campaign finance laws.)

      • Duane are you that biased? Trump only wants the news to be accurately reported good and bad. There is so much fake and very exaggerated reporting every day. If the media reported what is instead of what they wished because of their own bias, it would be a different world.

        • John Campbell and Duane,

          I am a journalist and earned my communication degree after taking journalism classes from the University of Michigan. I practiced journalism and studied journalism. I doubt either of you have done so because your statements reveal extreme ignorance on the topic of Journalism, bias and ethics.

          Trump is obviously a pathological serial liar, a bizarre and narcissistic psychopath, unprecedented in the history of the American presidency given the over 7000 lies he has told in 2 years plus of his presidency. Every one of those lies is fact-checked and proven wrong. Trump lies on the order of Nazi Germany and Italy’s fascist leaderships during World War II and just before that period.
          The New York Times and Toronto Star counts of lies are different because the New York Times for example does not count repeated lies. The Washington Post counts every lie and came up with over 7,000.

          Trump regularly criticizes media organizations who do their job by reporting facts and analyses and opinions criticizing his corrupt, stupid, ignorant, lying, cheating actions. He’s a narcissistic selfish money grubbing tw@t focused only on hate for immigrants and other brown people, and looting the treasury of the United States by illegally steering executive office expenses and all foreign dignitaries towards his hotels and other properties. Reports have come out revealing the Trump staffers have been encouraging foreigners to stay at Trump properties from day One. Trump violated the Constitution the moment he took office.

          His is the worst Administration in American history. Even John Dean who served six years in prison after working for “the previous worst administration,” as he called it, warned Trump staffers in a tweet “to get out now!”

          Do you believe you are both smarter and better judges of a presidential Administration than John Dean??? If so, you represent the character and mentality of many of those who post here, usually free of relevant factual data: deluded and ignorantly arrogant.

          If you are such great judges and masters of knowledge in the area of Journalism and ethics, media and their potential biases, post your credentials and scholarly or other factual investigations, references allegedly exposing how journalistic organizations such as CNN, the New York Times ABC and other legitimate mainstream media are so “biased.”

          Conservatives above all political orientations seem to take claims of leaders as reality without the slightest effort to fact-check those statements. That reveals both ignorance and a misplaced confidence in a corrupt, undemocratic leaders they tend to bow and scrape to. Doing so is also evidence of right-wing authoritarianism.

          In fact,I’ve observed that most layperson conservatives have little understanding of the media and journalism, and are biased themselves in favor of media that reflects their own opinions, which are demonstrably based largely on a vast sea of wishes, ignorance and unreality. So it’s laughable to hear most conservatives claiming mainstream media is biased, simply because it doesn’t reflect dogmas of their antiscience and antidemocracy wishes, cherished shibboleths and religions!

          Most of Trump’s lies are repeated because the man isn’t that creative! He is absolutely no stable genius. He’s a tin pan dictator wannabe, kowtowing to Putin and didn’t even respond when Putin said he would aim nuclear warheads at the US recently if they didn’t follow his demands.

          Everyone who understands journalistic ethics and bias knows that Fox News is the laughingstock of news organizations. Punditfact.Org rated Fox News over 60% lies TWICE, whereas CNN for example was measured at 22% lies. ABC and others fell in between. NBC/MSNBC were second worst but far behind Faux Snooze. This refers to statements by pundits on their news programs, not the content of the regular broadcasts of factual news.

          • Like most leftists, Tim declares that any statement he disagrees with is a lie.

            I also love the I’m an expert, you’re not, so shut up attitude he takes.

            Tim, the only laughing stock here is you. Too bad you’re not smart enough to pick up on it.

          • “Conservatives above all political orientations seem to take claims of leaders as reality without the slightest effort to fact-check those statements.”

            Projection at it’s finest.

          • re: Tim Mantyla’s epistle

            You must be an unemployed “reporter” to have the time and anger to draft such a response. You need an editor to cut down your screed to its essence: Trump bad, Bawwww, Bawwww.

            Dan Kurt

          • Tim
            You said, “Trump is obviously a pathological serial liar, a bizarre and narcissistic psychopath…” Spoken like a true journalist! Where is your evidence for your claims? You apparently believe them, state them as ‘facts,’ but without any authority in evidence. It is ironic that you accuse Trump of being a “serial liar,” and yet make statements that are not supported as factual. There is an old saying that when you point a finger at someone, there are three fingers point back at yourself.

            The Fourth Estate has become a Fifth Column — as your screed clearly demonstrates.

          • Tim Mantyla, thank you for this illuminating essay. I have saved it as a monument to the current state of American journalism.

          • Mr. Mantyla is here producing an extreme longwinded opinion, in which journalism is mentioned but not practiced, though parodied in the form of character assassination. If that’s what U. Michigan produces from its ‘communications’ program, its practitioners might better learn to code.

            Less filibusters and more facts, please.

          • Tim,

            Let’s put aside your views on Trump. I have been personally involved involved in three matters that were reported in the press. In each case, the reportter’s view off the “truth” and mine were very different. In the first, I as deposed as an expert technical defense witness in a wrongful death suit. The 5-day news articles in the local paper received a Pulitzer in investigative journalism for both the paper and the journalist, having taken everything the non-technically trained plaintiff’s lawyer said as Gospel, and treating the claims of the defense as mere self-serving lies. Plaintiff prevailed in the trial court. About a year later, on appeal, the case was combined with two others and all three thrown out as “bad law”. They weren’t sent back for retrial – they were overturned. The plaintiff did not appeal that decision.
            In the second matter, one of our State Senators began a challenge of a classified program. The press took it up and published absolute unsubstantiated rot. We could not respond, because the whole thing was classified. By the way, the product was fielded and all the press comments about how it couldn’t work have been shown to be rubbish.
            Lastly, my wife and I became involved, with many of our neighbors, in a dispute over a new school that was to be built in our neighborhood. Our concerns were mainly about noise and traffic. The local paper published an interview with a school board official in which he labelled us as racists. Published without any attempt to see if the claims was true. Subsequently, my wife and I were appointed to a neighborhood committee to work with the architects to resolve the issues. The architects, and the school board, made some changes and a fine new school was built.
            So, aside from all your protestations, the press does get it wrong. The press does follow its own biases and agendae. The press is made up of humans, just like the rest of us. Not superhumans above self-interest. I have realized that since I was in middle school and required to read Time The Weekly Newsmagazine and The New Republic each week, and was quizzed on the contents. I learned that the press was biased, and that I would have to take what the press reports and then apply independent thinking and check out the facts myself.
            Tim, members of the Fourth Estate are humans – they are biased. The newspapers and the broadcast media are biased. Its not a surprise – it’s human nature. Live with it, and you might consider a little more self-reflection and a lot less self-righteousness.

          • Tim went to UM?

            And I paid taxes for his education?

            I want a refund.

            His slanted and distorted views are exactly why the Media are being accused of Fake New.

            This attitude of Tim’s has infected MSM. There was not a hint of bias 50 years ago. Sadly his diatribe tells us everything we need to know about him.

          • Wow, you should demand your money back from U-Mich, or at least paid attention in class. That was one of the most glaring indictments of journalism and journalists I’ve ever read and is a classic example of the extreme arrogance and lack of self-awareness that is currently plaguing journalism today.

          • Tim,
            But this article isn’t about President Trump, it is about the misdeeds of Michael Mann. All you are doing is hijacking the thread to further your rant against the elected leader of the USA.
            Like John stated above
            “Hillary lost, get over it”

          • Dear Tim: Maybe you learn how to report facts some day. We have a plenty of your opinions now. My opinion of the University of Michigan took a hit.

          • Tim,

            Just for sh1ts & giggles, I’m curious to know what, exactly, you think the press got right regarding the Covington students and Jussie Smollett?

          • I would recommend to anyone sending their kids to get an education in journalism to avoid University of Michigan. Based on real world observations.

          • I just find it hilarious that anyone thinks that declaring themselves to be a “journalist” these days is a good thing. Back in the mid 70’s when I was a student at IU in Bloomington one was sure to smell weed burning when they walked by the Ernie Pyle school of journalism. It’s a real shame that these days one can’t tell the difference between most journalists and activists because so many of one in the same.

          • Tim,

            The MSM press lies in almost everything they print or say. Two solid years of lying press daily. The MSM sounds insane.

            I believe almost nothing they report any more.

            The Swamp is the biggest threat to our individual freedoms. Putin is nothing compared to the Swamp.

            I don’t like Trump that much, but he is a soldier in the fight against the Swamp. That’s why we elected him. We reject the swamp and swamp supporters like you…you threaten our individual liberties.

          • Tim – only 7000 lies? Why not say 7,000,000 lies? If you’re going all out with phony baloney, jump in with both feet!
            Your prejudice is a bit over the top, don’t you think?

          • Tim Mantyla: You’re not a journalist – by your own statements, you’re a propagandist. Quite a boastful one.
            Anyone that understands journalistic ethics and bias knows that you are utterly full of sh*t – a disgrace and an embarrassment to an utterly corrupted field.

            ‘Pathological liar’. Hypocrisy just isn’t enough to say it.

            The accusation of ‘lack of creativity’ is almost jaw-dropping in the face of the lock-step messaging on full-display across the entire spectrum of marching broom activists that have the sheer gall to call themselves reporters – apparently cloned in numbers off of a stain on Goebbels mattress.

            I could not POSSIBLY have any less respect for you.

          • A bizarre rant. Like CNN did so well on this Jesse thing those boys from Covington–they are soo pure. /sarc
            Strange–but I have heard this type of projection for years now. What ever conservatives are accused of, is what is really happening with progressives. It’s sad that we can’t dialog anymore. In the 60s–both sides had a side. Now its just accuse from the progressives and defend from the conservatives. Sad.

          • “Do you believe you are both smarter and better judges of a presidential Administration than John Dean???”

            Is this a trick question? This is who you listen to for advice? Things are starting to come into focus now. 🙂

          • “Do you believe you are both smarter and better judges of a presidential Administration than John Dean???” Y’ gotta be kidding!!! John Dean is now the gold standard???

          • Tim,
            There have been multiple scientific studies done covering journalists and their biases. For example during Clinton administration during an actual recession the word recession was rarely used in news articles about economy. However, during the Bush administration when there was no recession, the word was used significantly higher in articles about economy. Can you please look up that scientific study based on facts and explain to me why an “unbiased” media would do that? Also, other studies show the frequency of labeling negative actions by or mistakes as being made by the “Bush administration” vs. say the Dept of Agriculture during Dem and Repub admins. These are strictly opinion free word counts that irrefutably show the bias of the news media. So, I don’t even need all the anecdotal evidence from insiders and Dan Rather’s LIES to prove my case.
            Oh, and by the way arguments to authority don’t do much good on sites that explicitly challenge such arguments every day.
            Out of curiosity is one of his “lies”, the one the fact checkers were claiming when he said 1/3 of illegal immigrant women were being raped, when the actual number was ‘gasp’ 30%

          • It’s worse than that Ironargonat. Amnesty International says it is upwards of 60%, so I guess the President “lied” when he said it was 30%

          • Now that’s cruel. Tim is trained and works (worked?) as a journalist. He has neither the background, or as a journalist, nor the mental ability to do the complicated, demanding work of coding.

            He will make a fine barista.

          • “…marching broom activists that have the sheer gall to call themselves reporters – apparently cloned in numbers off of a stain on Goebbels mattress.”

            Love it! Mind if I use it?
            Cheers
            Mike

      • Trump and others are doing their best to place the state-run attempt at a news monopoly in perspective.
        I’m optimistic. In England in the early 1600s a long experiment in authoritarian government had become too much.
        The dreaded Star Chamber under Archbishop Laud was attempting a state-run monopoly on the media.
        An increasingly prosperous and independent middle classes got around Laud by having their stuff published in Holland.
        Similarly, today’s popular uprising could become another Great Reformation.
        How long can ordinary people put up with in-your-face and in-your-wallet government?

      • Duane

        You’re obviously blind to ACLU failures; my comment is targeted at others to give factual data useful in their discussions. You’ve drunk the kool-aid and, frankly, you’re not worth my time.

        The ACLU frequently uses political consideration (not simply constitutional considerations) to determine if selected items are “worthy” of ACLU defense.

        The following Wall Street Journal article (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-aclu-retreats-from-free-expression-1529533065) documents several ACLU failures reported in the MSM. A portion is quoted below:

        “The speech-case guidelines reflect a demotion of free speech in the ACLU’s hierarchy of values. Their vague references to the “serious harm” to “marginalized” people occasioned by speech can easily include the presumed psychological effects of racist or otherwise hateful speech, which is constitutionally protected but contrary to ACLU values. Faced with perceived conflicts between freedom of speech and “progress toward equality,” the ACLU is likely to choose equality. If the Supreme Court adopted the ACLU’s balancing test, it would greatly expand government power to restrict speech.”

      • Duane I can see by the litany of your posts on this article that you are deranged. Post away if it is therapeutic for you but just know that what you post is indeed “Fake News”

      • They don’t defend baker’s first amendment right to not write on a cake something which they consider offensive.

      • Why should be OK to libel or defame a public figure?
        I remember in England, a pop group published a postcard of Labor Prime Minister Harold Wilson in bed with his secretary. Quentin Hogg QC, a tory MP, sued, and Harold Wilson was awarded substantial dammages, which he donated to charity.
        In those days, the defendent in a libel suit had to prove what they stated was true. The plaintiff did not have to prove that what was said was false.
        To point, Liberace was awarded huge dammages after an English newspaper insinuated that he was gay.
        The same thing happened with Lord Boothby.

        • British law allows suit if the action defames someone whether true or not. If an American paper had written the same thing about Liberace they would have won because in America the truth is an absolute defense against being sued for defamation.
          The media has more leeway for public figures, then private. So, for example the Covingtion kids are absolutely going to win because he was not a public figure. But, knowingly false articles can’t be published about someone w/o risk of losing whether public or not.

      • “The biggest and most consequential lie that Trump professes is that the media is the “enemy of the people.”

        No, you are distorting Trump’s words and meaning. Trump says Fake News is the enemy of the people. Fake News means lies. Trump is saying Lies are the enemy of the people.

        Trump is right, lies are the enemy of the People.

        What’s the second-biggest consequential lie Tump has told?

      • “ACLU ALWAYS defends the First Amendment.”
        Really? Then help me out here. I must have missed it when the ACLU spoke out in defence of freedom of speech when:

        Ben Shapiro was barred from speaking at DePaul University
        Ann Coulter was barred from speaking at Berkeley
        Milo Yiannopoulos was barred from speaking at Berkeley
        Nicolas Dirks was barred from speaking at Berkeley
        Anita Alvarez was barred from speaking at the University of Chicago
        Bassem Eid was barred from speaking at the University of Chicago
        Action Bronson was barred from speaking at George Washington University
        Action Bronson was barred from speaking at Trinity College
        Emily Wong was barred from speaking at Hampshire College
        John Brennan was barred from speaking at the University of Pennsylvania
        John Derbyshire was barred from speaking at Williams College
        Suzanne Venkner was barred from speaking at Williams College
        Nir Barkat was barred from speaking at San Francisco State

        The list goes on, and on, and on and on… Shall I continue?

      • The ACLU is lousy with arrogant, paranoid Leftists who fan out across our fruited plains to impose their morality on the rest of us. “No creche for you!” “No 10 Commandments for you!”
        Also, it is demonstrably FALSE that they ALWAYS defend the 1A, since the 1A guarantees the people the right to both peaceably assemble and to redress their grievances against the government. Yet, the ACLU stood by and said NOTHING when Marxist 44’s admin relentlessly attacked and suppressed Tea Party groups (and conservatives in general).
        Which state, pray tell, did the ACLU sue, to stop it from prying open political parties, by allowing outsiders to vote in their primaries? By definition, for a group of like-minded people to exercise their 1A right to assemble means they will separate from both the general population and, especially, from those that disagree with them. Yet, in multiple states, Democrats and Independents are allowed to disrupt the Republican party, by voting in a Republican primary!

      • The ACLU always defends the first amendment: actively in the case of ‘progressive’ (sic) causes, but with silent passivity in the case of conservative or traditional ones.

      • Duane: You have Trump Derangement Syndrome. Sorry, but enough is enough. You’re twisted in how you don’t understand what Trump’s issue with the media is. Good news is that the Wa Post will have to think twice about Fake News… think Covington,

      • Has the ACLU stepped in to defend the rights of Ben Shapiro, Milo Yiannopoulos, Ann Coulter, etc. to speak on college campuses?

      • The ACLU was founded as a communist organization devoted to the abolition of private property and establishment of the atheist religion as the official religion of the United States. It is inherently incompatible with several clauses of the First Amendment. It also supports “campaign finance reform” which allows government to regulate speech about political candidates, so that’s another clause of the First Amendment inimical to the ACLU.

      • Could you please cite one example where Trump complained that the “US needs to beef up its law to suppress the news media.”?

      • Duane,
        The ACLU USED to always defend the First Amendment. They have recently decided they would no longer defend speech they determine is offensive. Such as anti-gay speech etc. You can look it up in their own words not others.
        So, I am sad to say your statement is now incorrect.

    • Maybe it has nothing to do with freedom of the press at all. Maybe its an entirely different set of vested interests held by the same folks. Maybe these folks are worried that the truth could come out in a trial?

      • Not it is the fact it sets such a low bar for defamation that most news media organizations would face it every other day. Read the list it is any media that plays on the edge.

    • Probably a mistake by an intern. Will be rectified soon after the ACLU receives blowback from three anonymous Twitter accountds

  1. Ot, but the transmission line through Maine fiasco is a fast breaking story.

    https://www.centralmaine.com/2019/02/21/read-mills-statement-on-her-support-of-cmps-controversial-transmission-line/

    This was by design to be located near huge proposed wind farms in pristine Maine locations by Moosehead Lake.

    This is opposed by 98% of the residents and businesses in the region.

    Also note how much Gov. Janet Mills looks like Hillary’s evil twin holding that cube of carbon.

  2. From the letter linked and quoted above:

    … we believe that the panel’s decision on the merits of plaintiff’s defamation claim, including as amended by the Court, may have unintended and undesirable consequences in future cases implicating the exercise of amici’s right to freedom of speech and of the press.

    The letter is short and to the point. My translation: Mann’s defamation claim is so bogus that the case should be tossed out immediately.

    I think this case has become uncoupled from the Mark Steyn case. Here’s a link to his latest article.

    The fact that this case has managed to hang around in the courts for six years is a travesty. It should either be tossed out or go to trial.

    • If I understand it correctly, it has and it hasn’t. The lower court claims they can’t proceed on Steyn’s case until the matter with National Review and CEI is through their SLAPP appeals. If those cases win on the SLAPP argument then the Mann v. Steyn case is moot. However, Steyn countersued so Mann still won’t be off the hook, though I really don’t know how good the grounding for that case is either. Of course on all of these political cases, who knows what the rulings will be.

  3. The obvious reason they are finally taking this position is because of their being in the crosshairs of a lawsuit by the Covington school children.

      • Yes and no. You are correct that this isn’t a “new” position vis-à-vis the lawsuit. That they are just now prodding for action (instead of doing so much sooner), however, could be prompted by the “Covington fiasco”. If the courts get off their butts and give them a favorable ruling here, that can be used as precedent in other suits (such as the one the “Covington fiasco” has brought them).

        • I don’t see how anything in this case impacts the Covington case.
          The kids aren’t Public Figures, there appears to have been a reckless disregard for the truth on the part of the papers.
          Nor can the papers claim they were doing satire when covering this case.

  4. Mann was interviewed in a recent issue of Cosmo Magazine.

    This is the interesting part of that interview.

    Climategate, in hindsight, is very interesting, because it involved hacked emails, and Saudi Arabia and Russia were both involved. WikiLeaks and Julian Assange …

    In my recent book, The Madhouse Effect, we talk about what played out in the last presidential election. The assault on climate scientists, Climategate, was almost a training ground. It was the same actors and the same mission. Climategate was about trying to distract the public and the policymakers with a fake scandal going into the Copenhagen Summit [also known as the United Nations Climate Change Conference] in 2009, which was the first opportunity for meaningful progress on international climate policy in years.

    A compelling case can be made that Russia’s involvement and Saudi Arabia’s potential involvement in the last [US] election was about a half-trillion-dollar oil deal between Russia and ExxonMobil that had been blocked because of the sanctions against Russia.

    What’s the first thing that happened under the now-infamous Paul Manafort? They changed the Republican platform to try to get rid of those sanctions. Then Trump appointed Rex Tillerson, the former head of ExxonMobil, as Secretary of State. Is that a coincidence?

    It was the same players and the same motive and the same disingenuity. In the case of Climategate, there have now been the better part of a dozen investigations in the US and the UK, and they have all come to the conclusion there was no impropriety on the part of the scientists whose emails had been stolen. The only wrongdoing was the criminal theft of the emails in the first place.

    The science that we are doing is a threat to the world’s most powerful and wealthiest special interests. The most powerful and wealthiest special interest that has ever existed: the fossil fuel industry.

    They have used their immense resources to create fake scandals and to fund a global disinformation campaign aimed at vilifying the scientists, discrediting the science, and misleading the public and policymakers. Arguably, it is the most villainous act in the history of human civilisation, because it is about the short-term interests of a small number of plutocrats over the long-term welfare of this planet and the people who live on it.

    So, once again, to be in a position to be fighting on the right side of a battle between good and evil – which frankly it is – is a privilege.

    https://cosmosmagazine.com/climate/the-most-villainous-act-in-the-history-of-human-civilisation-tyler-prize-winner-michael-e-mann-speaks-out

      • Tillerson was a selfish, narrow minded corporate tool, with zero experience in politics and dealing with foreign dignitaries except to sell his products.

        The idea that businessmen make excellent Governors and presidents and administrators is the most foolish thing ever. Businessmen are in the business of making money and selling their products. The government is not a business and the American people and our gross national product is not a business product. There is far more to be concerned about in a government than any business ever had to handle.

        The narrow-minded profit focus of the typical businessman has led to endless, destructive GOP-driven boom-bust cycles that destroy lives and economies.

        Government should be run by the people, for the people of the people, not for the businesses and the rich and the CEOs. That’s the epitome of corruption.

        Ignorant dumbasses who mindlessly support a so-called free market economy in this era are economically retarded, haven’t done sufficient homework of which type of government and what kind of economic support government needs to do, and the utter failure of the history of conservatives in America to provide any good for society overall. Only for those already rich and connected. If capitalism by itself or so great, poverty and hunger and lack of healthcare and homelessness would have been eliminated by now. It’s an utter failure on those vital counts.

        • So much ignorance and arrogance. No wonder you’re a journalist.

          And of course the standard anyone who supports the free market is “economically retarded” and just haven’t studied the subject like I have.

          The mere fact that the free market always out performs socialism just isn’t important to you.
          The mere fact that the free market enhances everyone’s wealth, while socialism only enriches those who run it and their sycophants (I put you in that category) isn’t important to you.

          No, it’s a belief that only those who think like you do should be permitted to have any form of power. Next comes the desire to punish all those who fail to think as you do.

        • Hey Tim;

          “Those who can, do.”
          “Those who can’t, teach.”
          “Those who can’t teach, become journalists.”

          • And unemployed journalism grads rant at length on blogs, demonstrating why they haven’t been able to get a job.

          • “Systems vision of communication strategies within business needs”

            then

            “Buzzwords and noise – Information that customers need to understand your products and services is tangled in buzzwords and jargon. The same is true for employees and suppliers.”

            Not a lot of journalizing, though.

        • Tim
          As demonstrated by Carter, engineers don’t make good presidents either. What does that leave? Lawyers and journalists like yourself?

          • Hoover wasn’t doing too badly until he signed the Smoot-Hawley tariff into law. It should be a cautionary tale for Trump, although he seems to be using it as the stick to his carrot-and-stick game with the Chinese.

        • You’ve put forth a lot of assertions and have provided only your opinion as support in your comment. Do you have some tangible facts or otherwise reputable analysis to support your assertions with which you would be willing to share with the forum?

          For instance, have you had any dealings with foreign dignitaries to sell your products? You don’t typically deal with foreign dignitaries to “sell” anything. Typically, you would deal with much lower level agents than what is usually identified as a “dignitary”. You would usually be dealing with a contracting officer of the branch/ministry that wished to procure your goods or services.

          What do you mean when you say “… the American people and our gross national product is not a business product.”[sic]? What would you consider the labor of “the American people” when foreign citizenry procure the services and/or products that are generated by that labor?

          The Gross National Product of a nation is effectively a measure of the value of total production (in units of currency) of the nation state for which that measure is calculated for that year. That production includes both goods and services, some of which were sold to foreign entities (e.g. citizens, businesses, and governments).

          Ignorant dumbasses who mindlessly support a so-called free market economy in this era are economically retarded, haven’t done sufficient homework of which type of government and what kind of economic support government needs to do, and the utter failure of the history of conservatives in America to provide any good for society overall.

          Please share your reasoning. What makes the U.S. economy a “so-called free market” system? What kind of “economic support” does “government need to do” and why?

          If capitalism by itself or so great, poverty and hunger and lack of healthcare and homelessness would have been eliminated by now.

          [sic] How do you know this? Why would you think that capitalism would eliminate poverty, hunger, lack of healthcare (what do you mean “lack of healthcare”, to my knowledge healthcare exists in the U.S.A.) or homelessness?

        • It takes wealth to eliminate poverty and provide health care to people.

          Free enterprise has been constantly generating wealth for hundreds of years. Compare how even poor people live today compared to an average person 200 or 300 years ago.
          Free enterprise did that. Not government.

          Had we not started to shift from free enterprise to socialism 75 years ago, we would be a lot further along in generating all of the things you claim to be interested in.

          Most of the people who are poor today, in the US, are poor because they made decisions that made them poor. The system didn’t do it to them, they did it to themselves.
          Everybody has access to healthcare today. For those who can’t or won’t pay for it themselves, there is government assistance. What you mean is that healthcare isn’t free to the user.
          The only people who are homeless today, are those who have severe mental problems. In the past these people would have been institutionalized for their own protection. However liberals, such as yourself felt that was cruel, so you kicked them out to the streets.

          In other words, you have no idea what you are talking about. You just blather trite cliches without any understanding of any of the words you use.
          Which makes you the perfect socialist.

          • “However liberals, such as yourself felt that was cruel, so you kicked them out to the streets.”

            No, it was conservatives such as you that refused to pay higher taxes, which would have paid for the institutions to care for them.

          • Dirkse, that bill was introduced and sponsored by Ted Kennedy and signed by President Carter.
            Look it up. easy enough. It did take effect under Reagan who only modified it (with approval from a fully Democratic Congress) by turning the funds into block grants to the states. Local management instead of wasteful central management

          • I mostly agree MarkW, though leftist/”progressive”/”Democrat”/socialist policies did add to the number of failures. Much like a drug dealer, the leftist policies get people hooked on “free stuff” provided by other people’s money, which for many eliminates the impetus to improve their conditions and relying on their “victim” status to provide for their every need/want.

            Cheers!

            Joe

          • Mr Civis, it goes both ways. The righ-wing/conservative/Republican/capitialsist policies add to a number of failures. Much like the tank manufacturer, the military-industrial complex gets hooked on other people’s money resulting in the current “perpetual war” we are now engaged in.

          • It’s always the same with you leftists. Everything would be just fine if only those evil rich people would give you more of their money.

            Regardless, your knowledge of history is as bad as your knowledge of economics, politics, reality itself.

            It was you liberals who sued to have those institutionalized freed from their restraints.

          • Ah yes, the other fantasy of the lunatic left.
            The world would be at peace if it weren’t for the evil “military/industrial” complex.

          • Here is a fine example of MarkW’s “knowledge of history.” …. “It was you liberals who sued to have those institutionalized freed”
            ….
            Please cite the lawsuit/case you are referring to.
            ….
            KaliforniaKook upthread thinks it was a “bill.”

          • MarkW, can you tell us how much money has been spent on the “military-industiral complex” for the 15+ years of war (still ongoing) that we’ve been conducting in Afghanistan?

          • MarkW, can you tell us how much money has been spent on the “military-industiral complex” for the 60+ years of war (peace treaty yet to be signed) that we’ve been conducting in Korea?

          • Mr Dirkse,
            “Much like the tank manufacturer, the military-industrial complex gets hooked on other people’s money resulting in the current “perpetual war” we are now engaged in.”

            I am talking about the individual and the individual’s motivation and ability to succeed which is squashed by leftist policies and practices. It is the individual’s freedoms and that ideal that this country was founded on and allowed it to prosper.

            Cheers!

            Joe

          • “the individual’s motivation and ability to succeed which is squashed by leftist policies ”

            Are you talking about “leftist” policies such as Social Security, Medicare, unemployment insurance and the like? They do not squash anything, in fact they contribute to productivity and success. Lots of Walmart employees would starve to death if it weren’t for Food Stamps (SNAP.)

          • David, there you go, moving the goal posts again.
            First you claim that the reason we are at war is because of the so called military /industrial complex. Then when asked to prove your claim you cite the money spent buying some of their stuff.

          • You still haven’t provided me with your supposed “lawsuit” that freed all of the folks that were institutionalized.

            Secondly, if you “stave the beast” (cut off military spending) the perpetual war we’re in would cease. Your lack of historical knowledge is showing.

        • You seem to be misunderstanding what capitalism is. It is primarily a ‘social system’, which of course subsumes economics. It is the only system where all interactions between individuals are voluntary. Any other system will, by definition, be authoritarian to a greater or lesser degree. (Full-on socialism is complete authoritarianism).

          In the US (as in pretty much the rest of the world) we live in a mixed system. The most dysfunctional areas tend to be those that are the least capitalistic.

        • “If capitalism was so great….poverty would have been eliminated..” Really? If the “War on Poverty” a massive government intervention trying to eradicate poverty in the 1960s had been effective, there’d be no more poverty. Funny how that works

        • Poor Tim, he has been brainwashed in the AOC school of economics. How did our educational system fail us so badly turning out such illiterates in history, economics and finance.

        • If you compare poverty and hunger, healthcare and homelessness, today, with what existed for TEN THOUSAND YEARS OF CIVILIZATION preceding capitalism you would see the resounding success that it is. What do you think brought us to the advanced civilizations we have today? Do you have a lick of sense?
          And if you compare the results of capitalist countries with any other economic system, you will find that only capitalism increases a country’s standard of living.

          You have been poorly educated.

    • Russ thanks for sharing Dr. Mann’s most recent thoughts on evil and who(m) has been misleading the public and policy makers.

      I agree with Dr. Mann in that “History will judge the actors in this debate, and many will be judged harshly. By that time, unfortunately, it will be too late.(1)”

      It not to late to be honest about a few of the solutions his side of the environmental movement have advocated for that haven’t worked out as planned. Say how CSP is a bit more sensitive to the weather than planned for…etc. etc. etc.

      Maybe he will take responsibility for some his recommendations and only run energy hog climate models when CSP output is available.

      pg 115 “Judgment of History” Section of Dr. Mann’s The Madhouse Effect book.

        • Sorry about that Bob,

          CSP= Concentrating Solar Power, See Ivanpah and Crescent Dunes for a couple examples.
          Roger Andrews, over at Energy Matters, has a few posts up on the performance of these technologies.

          • Thanks.

            There are so many things that look great until they are tried. You can always find a university professor who can prove that they will work and solve all the world’s problems.

    • “They have used their immense resources to create fake scandals and to fund a global disinformation campaign aimed at vilifying the scientists, discrediting the science…”

      Immense to say the least. It much have cost a pretty penny to get Mother Nature to agree not to play along with the climate models for the past 20 years.

    • The funny part of that statement is if what was said against Mann was defamation then his response right there is defamation of a number of people. You are setting a very low bar and there will be defamation cases on any forum which is why so many parties are worried.

      That is what actually happened in the Tim Ball vs Andrew Weaver, the case by Weaver was lost because the transgression was not bad enough to meet the legal standard for defamation.

      • “the transgression was not bad enough to meet the legal standard for defamation.”

        I believe Aleister Crowley actually won a demation case, but was not awarded much as he had spent the majority of his life defaming his own reputation.

    • As usual, Mann has nothing but lies to defend himself with.

      There was never any evidence that the climate gate e-mails were hacked.

      And his attempt to drag in Saudi Arabia and Russia is just laughable.

      As always, he whines about massive funding for the other side, without actually providing any evidence for this. It’s just something that the faithful, such as Tim here, are expected to believe.

    • Man’s claim that he and his buddies are victims of propaganda (Climategate) from the evil rich and powerful is laughable.

      Those rich and powerful petrol and coal interests are sitting on their hands while ENTRENCHED GOVERNMENT aided by their allies in Academia, Media, Entertainment, Science (regrettably), Law and Other key institutions of civilization are throwing $100’s of $Billions of support to the AGW fraudsters annually.

      AGW is one of the key instruments of one of the biggest power grabs in history.

      Mann et al are not being “set upon” by the powerful…he and his collaborators were born and fostered by the most (illegitimatly) powerful institutions in existence.

      Climategate emails were illegally obtained and distributed, but the content truthfully revealed fraud and anti-scientific behavior. (About which almost the entire Scientific community is shamefully silent…and therefore complicit)

      This situation is serious. These AGW folks have crossed the line from “political maneuvering” to criminally evil in my opinion.

  5. “..world-renowned climate scientist Michael Mann..”
    “..world-renowned liar and tree ring manipulator Michael Mann..”

    There, fixed.

  6. Mann is the Trofim Lysenko of CliSci, while the Climate State parallels Stalinism. If there is any justice, he will wind up behind bars.

  7. We are fortunate in our foes. Mann looks and behaves like a 3rd rate actor auditioning to play Loki. A more reprehensible figure could not be made up.

  8. “..world-renowned climate scientist Michael Mann..”

    The ‘… globally notorious climate trickster Michael Mann … ‘ surely.

  9. Judges and politicians are not known for their scientific acumen. They in their ignorance of actual scientific rigor have made truly ignorant decisions in the past. CO2 is not a pollutant if life cannot exist without it, and as it increases, life grows more abundantly. Computer modeling is manipulation of numbers, data, and like statistics can make just about any predetermined outcome appear to be true. Science is repeatable, Mann’s models have never been repeated by any other body because he “hid the decline” and at least has been accused of manipulating the data which make his model output GIGO. As far as I am aware he has never made the raw data available to others to be able to duplicate his outcomes. How he holds his position of influence is beyond me and shows me the extent of the problem in the academic community. Science is now as unscientific as journalism is not objective. They both are rooted in what and how students are taught by the academic community. Lawyers and judges, and politicians, come from those same halls of academia. We are doomed.

    • We are doomed unless enough people read and grasp
      http://www.constitution.org/col/one_room_schoolhouse.htm
      and realize just how modern education got so corrupted as to produce an Alexandria Occasional Cortex and those who freely elected her.

      The original Lancastrian education produced responsible citizens. It takes 50% to win.

      The place to start is in Church schools and other private schools.

      There is not much time.

      • And the teachers’ unions are fighting tooth and toenail to keep their stranglehold on our children’s education.

  10. If the ‘piglet’ (I’m being kind, any visual similarity is purely coincidental) wins it will fly, but whatever happens this piggy will go back to its trough, that’s where the conveyor belt of the free dosh is.

  11. Of course media opposes Michael Mann’s lawsuit because he is a celebrity and if held up, his suit could cause a chilling effect on freedom of speech. Gloating about this doesn’t make global warming any less factual.

    It’s stunning the kinds of straws you so-called Skeptics grasp at in an effort to band together and feel validated for your unverifiable unsupported dogmas. And yes, that’s a well placed, effective gloat! Ha!

    • Some of us love Mickey Mann, he is endless source of entertainment and good for a laugh any day; The pseudo Nobel laureate who managed to make fools of many politicians and governments around the world needs just to learn what is the difference between the two essential atmospheric gases: carbon dioxide and dihydrogen monoxide.

    • The fact that global warming is minor and entirely beneficial just doesn’t seem to penetrate whatever hive you have managed to join.

    • Tim
      You don’t have any room for talking about ‘unverified!’ You have made numerous statements that you expect us to accept on your word. Certainly you learned about footnotes and citations in your undergraduate course work.

    • It’s very humorous that Tim, this obviously young journalist (?), shows up right around the same time that Scott Adams highlighted them as a group easily persuaded by what most of know is pure BS. Mann of course was one of the purveyors of BS.

      He speaks confidently of his views while not having the slightest clue that those views are based on 97% BS. There will be tough years ahead for this fool as he comes to realize that everything he said about “skeptics” was much more applicable to himself.

    • **It’s stunning the kinds of straws you so-called Skeptics grasp at in an effort to band together and feel validated for your unverifiable unsupported dogmas. And yes, that’s a well placed, effective gloat! Ha!**
      Now, Tim you have just convinced me you are a joke along with Mann.

    • Neal Gabler, many years ago, was a panelist on Fox’s News Watch, a show that discussed media coverage of topics for the week. Two panelists from the right, two from the left. Neal was one of those representing the left.

      I forget which topic’s coverage was being discussed but the coverage of it was even more sub-par than usual. But I’ll never forget Neal’s explanation of why the coverage was so poor.

      This is very close to verbatim but not an exact quote. His explanation was simply that too many journalists today are lazy and stupid.

      I’m not sure why, but reading Tim’s rants reminded me of that.

    • “For your unverifiable unsupported dogmas…” Sorry, that’s not how it works. The new kids on the block with the new theory have to verify and support it first. That hasn’t been done.

  12. Tim Mantyla: What exactly are you referring to when you use the phrase ‘unverifiable unsupported dogmas’?

    • That was Tim Mantyla’s Freudian slip, he was actually referring to Mickey’s synthetic hockey stick reconstruction and dogmatically preached ‘fake-science’ by the academia talibans.

  13. Hmm, a lot of politics in the comments here, of a sort that maybe tends to go off topic in the Trump Derangement Syndrome direction? Not being a U.S. citizen myself, I don’t want to take sides for or against some sort of brashly salesmanlike/surprisingly effective USA’vian political leader! I just note here, that from my point of view, the TDS, the “Trump Derangement Syndrome”, certainly seems to be a real thing.

    Anyway, trying to get back on topic, I find it just amazing that this article starts with:
    “Twenty-four media organizations, including The Washington Post, NBC Universal, and Fox News, have sided with the conservative National Review and free market-leaning Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) over a defamation lawsuit brought by a leading climate scientist.”

    If this is for real, it’s quite a significant development! Liberal and Conservative news outlets in the U.S. getting together to actually defend freedom of speech? Independent of who the next U.S. President is, could it be there’s hope for democracy after all? Like, pinch me, I must be dreaming.

  14. Science follows where data leads.
    I was mathematically offended by the sticking together of differing data sets, and hiding data that the “data denier” didn’t like.
    So, when Steyn mocked Mann, I was all in. I figured Steyn was simply telling the truth about torturing data, and rational people would recognize that.

    But law is different from math, and the judges were apparently having trouble figuring out what to do. Perhaps they were waiting for climate hysteria to die down.

    If it is OK for Steyn to compare Mann to a child molester, then it might be OK for the press to compare me to a Holocaust denier, a flat-earther, an anti-science idiot, a murderer of the human race.

    Clarence Thomas has suggested revisiting decisions surrounding libel and defamation.
    I’m not sure if it applies because law is a mystery to me.
    https://www.law.com/nationallawjournal/2019/02/19/justice-thomas-urges-court-to-revisit-landmark-defamation-ruling/?slreturn=20190122112711

    • If we are to be precise, Steyn never compared Mann to a child molester.

      What Mark quoted, from another writer, was that the same Penn State administrators who whitewashed the abuses of an assistant football coach (reportedly not to damage the huge income and prestige from Penn State football) also cleared Mann, despite overwhelming evidence.

      Richard Lindzen, who was asked by administrators to testify at the hearing said afterward:

      “Mann has become the posterboy of the corrupt and disgraced climate science echo chamber. No university whitewash investigation will change that simple reality.”

      The similarity between the two cases was that not only did each hearing dismiss many allegations out of hand, but one of the administration’s justifications for saying Mann couldn’t be “unethical” or fraudulent was because he attracted so many grants for the institution!!

      • There was a comment comparing what Mann did to data to what Sandusky did to young children.

        Only a complete idiot would take such a statement as a belief that Mann was a pedophile.

  15. For some years now I have thought that Michael Mann has being doing well in deliberately committing professional infamy.
    “Journalist” Tim Mantyla seems to be on the same path.

  16. “Mann is credited with developing the so-called “hockey stick graph”…”

    I would prefer “responsible for” or “culpable for”, rather than “credited with”.

    Similarly,

    “renowned”

    is too generous in my version of the English language. “Infamous” or “notorious” would be more appropriate.

  17. Gosh even the US far left don’t support the delusional, upside down Mann donkey. What a hoot, watching them abandon this religious clown.

  18. Tim,
    Mantyla is an acronym of Mylanta, a potion taken when the gut tries to throw up something bad that was swallowed. Geoff

  19. Tim Mantyla , he is possibly Finnish related, Mäntylä, so I apologize for him as a Finn. Not all Finns are like him, well, possibly most of our own journalists are, though, Lemmings, as they are called here.
    I have not yet seen a single RedGreen (as we call those leftists here) who is a nice person. Not a single one. They all are loudmouthed, arrogant besserwissers who cause net harm to the society. It is not so bad to be a bad loser, but being a aggressive bad loser is scary; When Trump was elected, the whole world was given a chance to see into the leftist soul. I am not a particularly religious person, but I think that we are seeing something biblical, because we all saw the Evil.

  20. Dr Mann could not even answer my simple question asked in Sydney.-Do you believe it is acceptable for a scientist to manipulate data or misrepresent science according to their personal beliefs or for a higher cause?

    It is a simple yes or no question.

  21. This lawsuit is NOT in the federal courts. It’s in the local DC courts (the equivalent of State court if DC were a State). The original ruling was by the DC Superior Court and the appeal is pending the the DC Court of Appeals — NOT the DC Circuit. I wouldn’t spend on lot of time responding to an article that doesn’t even get the courts right.

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