Guest essay by Eric Worrall
According to Dr Marco Springmann, from the Nuffield Department of Population Health at Oxford University, driving up the price of meat will save lives and slow climate change.
Meat tax could save thousands of lives and slash healthcare costs
Although the tax would push up the price of burgers, sausages and mince, scientists are calling on governments to consider it.
A tax on meat could prevent almost 6,000 deaths a year in the UK and save the economy more than £700m in healthcare costs, according to researchers.
A study has found meat taxes could save an estimated 220,000 lives globally by 2020 and reduce healthcare costs by £30.7bn.
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Although the tax would massively push up the price of burgers, sausages, mince and steak, scientists behind the study called on all governments to consider imposing it.
Lead researcher Dr Marco Springmann, from the Nuffield Department of Population Health at Oxford University, said: “The consumption of red and processed meat exceeds recommended levels in most high and middle-income countries.
“This is having significant impacts not only on personal health, but also on healthcare systems, which are taxpayer-funded in many countries, and on the economy, which is losing its labour force due to ill health and care for family members who fall ill.
“I hope that governments will consider introducing a health levy on red and processed meat as part of a range of measures to make healthy and sustainable decision-making easier for consumers.
“A health levy on red and processed meat would not limit choices, but send a powerful signal to consumers and take pressure off our healthcare systems.”
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The abstract of the study;
Health-motivated taxes on red and processed meat: A modelling study on optimal tax levels and associated health impacts
Marco Springmann , Daniel Mason-D’Croz, Sherman Robinson, Keith Wiebe, H. Charles J. Godfray, Mike Rayner, Peter Scarborough
Published: November 6, 2018
Abstract
Background
The consumption of red and processed meat has been associated with increased mortality from chronic diseases, and as a result, it has been classified by the World Health Organization as carcinogenic (processed meat) and probably carcinogenic (red meat) to humans. One policy response is to regulate red and processed meat consumption similar to other carcinogens and foods of public health concerns. Here we describe a market-based approach of taxing red and processed meat according to its health impacts.
Methods
We calculated economically optimal tax levels for 149 world regions that would account for (internalize) the health costs associated with ill-health from red and processed meat consumption, and we used a coupled modelling framework to estimate the impacts of optimal taxation on consumption, health costs, and non-communicable disease mortality. Health impacts were estimated using a global comparative risk assessment framework, and economic responses were estimated using international data on health costs, prices, and price elasticities.
Findings
The health-related costs to society attributable to red and processed meat consumption in 2020 amounted to USD 285 billion (sensitivity intervals based on epidemiological uncertainty (SI), 93–431), three quarters of which were due to processed meat consumption. Under optimal taxation, prices for processed meat increased by 25% on average, ranging from 1% in low-income countries to over 100% in high-income countries, and prices for red meat increased by 4%, ranging from 0.2% to over 20%. Consumption of processed meat decreased by 16% on average, ranging from 1% to 25%, whilst red meat consumption remained stable as substitution for processed meat compensated price-related reductions. The number of deaths attributable to red and processed meat consumption decreased by 9% (222,000; SI, 38,000–357,000), and attributable health costs decreased by 14% (USD 41 billion; SI, 10–57) globally, in each case with greatest reductions in high and middle-income countries.
Interpretation
Including the social health cost of red and processed meat consumption in the price of red and processed meat could lead to significant health and environmental benefits, in particular in high and middle-income countries. The optimal tax levels estimated in this study are context-specific and can complement the simple rules of thumb currently used for setting health-motivated tax levels.
Read more: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0204139
Naturally by environmental benefits, the study authors mean climate benefits.
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Methods
We used a coupled modelling framework to calculate optimal tax levels for red and processed meat and the associated health and climate change impacts in the year 2020 for 149 world regions (Fig 1). Our calculation included several steps. First, we estimated the health impacts associated with the current and projected consumption levels of red and processed meat. Second, we estimated the health costs associated with those health impacts. Third, we repeated that calculation for a scenario in which we increased red and processed meat consumption by a marginal increase which we take to be one additional serving per day in each region. (Note that we are interested in the change in mortality and health costs per marginal increase in consumption. Because the dose-response functions we use are linear and we divide over the marginal increase when levying the damage costs on baseline prices, it does not matter what we define as marginal.) Fourth, we calculated the marginal health costs of red and processed meat consumption by subtracting the cost estimates of the two scenarios. Fifth, we levied the marginal health costs per marginal change in consumption onto the initial market prices of red and processed meat in each region, and calculated the impacts of those price changes on consumption levels, health impacts, and health costs.
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Livestock-related emissions are responsible for the majority of food-related greenhouse-gas (GHG) emissions, and for about 14.5% of GHG emissions overall, a similar proportion as from transport [39,40]. Consumption changes towards lower red and processed meat consumption could therefore have major implications for climate change. In a sensitivity analysis, we analysed the potential changes in food-related emissions using emissions intensities of foods obtained from meta-analyses of life-cycle analyses (section A6 in S1 File). We note that the emissions intensities do not account for changes in production methods and technologies that might be associated with changes in consumption. In this static framework, we found that optimal taxation could reduce food-related GHG emissions by 109 MtCO2-eq (CI, 50–139), most of which due to reduced beef consumption (Table A18 in S1 File). The change in emissions represents a reduction of 1.2% globally, ranging from less than one percent (0.6 MtCO2-eq) in low-income countries to 3% (62 MtCO2-eq) in high-income countries, and up to 7% in individual countries (Tables A19-A20 in S1 File).
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Read more: (Same link as above)
Meat taxes would brutally regressive. Comfortable middle class professors like Dr. Springman probably have nothing to fear from a meat tax, but energy poverty is a very problem in Britain, with millions of people being forced every winter to choose between heating and eating, and sometimes dying because they run out of options.
Dr. Springman might believe there are affordable alternatives to meat, but this isn’t always the case. The City of Oxford might have lots of vegan stores and specialty shops offering a wide variety of non meat protein, but there are many, many regions of Britain where choices are limited and money is in very short supply.
One winter in Britain I helped an elderly neighbour, when I saw him risking his life hobbling through the ice towards the local store to pick up a few essentials, after being snowbound for a week. His wife was terrified of him going out, but they had run out of food. Lets just say there wasn’t a lot of choice on offer when I visited the local store on their behalf.
If these proposed meat taxes are imposed, I strongly suspect far more people will die from starvation and exposure, than any lives saved due to reduced fat intake or whatever.
Isn’t taxing air enough?
If you drive a car
I’ll tax the street.
If you try to sit,
I’ll tax your seat.
If you get too cold,
I’ll tax the heat.
If you take a walk,
I’ll tax your feet.
Taxman!
The Beatles – Taxman.
~¿~
Ban all morons who believe that coerced social engineering is a good thing.
Stop trying to save the world until you clean up your own room first.
They were a little upset to discover that the highest tax rate in the UK at the time was 95%, understandably so.
In my experience the UK has some of the highest prices for meat in the world. About 15 years ago I was saying to people out shopping that (AU) $70 a kilo for rib eye steak (probably the most expensive cut) was a bit steep, when it was pointed out to me that this was £70 a kilo, at the time AU$168.
In Oz the same cut was $50 a kilo. It’s no coincidence that Australia produces some of the largest people, and places like Japan some of the smallest. It’s all about the meat in the diet.
It really isn’t. About the meat in the diet, that is. Our bodies prefer to burn protein for energy and store carbohydrates as fat for the lean times, a relic of our hunter-gatherer heritage. It’s why the Atkins and Paleo diets are successful. And by diet, I mean a change in eating habits, not just get on the plan for a couple of months.
Tax meat? Ban it! For a common good.
Ban all vegans and greens
For the common good!
Just don’t ban onions — I love food on my onions.
People like Curious George are the reason why I, as a left-leaning voter, refuse to vote.
Instead, let’s tax political dishonesty. It would be like a tax on alcohol and tobacco – a Vice tax.
Every time the political left stated a falsehood in any speech or article that would be taxed $1000 per falsehood. The same would apply to rightist falsehoods.
After a few years the accumulated money would be enough to pay off the national debt. It would be noted that the fines paid by leftists would greatly exceed the fines paid by rightists by one or more orders of magnitude.
“Instead, let’s tax political dishonesty.”
We could balance the budget doing that.
Balance? The Government would make a hefty profit!
How about this proposal :
Execute any politician who fails to deliver what they promise in campaigns.
There would be a lot fewer promises, and a lot more doings. And probably a lot fewer politicians. What’s not to like?
Let’s not go there, friend.
Only extremists execute those who don’t meet their personally designated goals. We don’t want to promote that sort solution here. I believe the moderator will agree.
“from the Nuffield Department…”
from the Nuttfield Department…… seems more appropriate.
How do these ignorant jerks get into such positions of supposed academic authority?
It is not meat that makes you fat it’s carbs. If you go on a meat only diet you will quickly loose weight.
I would add that the modern lifestyle of lots of chair sitting and minimal exercise is a likely suspect in fatness.
A fellow named Covert Bailey had it right in his 1978 book “Fit or Fat”. He preached that if you become physically fit and stay that way the weight will take care of itself.
He also notice that fat people have the longest arms, in that they will extend their reach to grab at something rather than move their corpulent bodies 10 inches closer to the object they are attempting to reach.
Exactly. People with more muscle mass burn more calories even when sitting idle.
Eating simple carbohydrates in the evening exacerbates the problem.
Bingo. They should have included a biochemist in their research, or someone whose area of expertise isn’t “Climatology”, which seems every bit as scientific as astrology.
UNFCCC
Articles: about 984
Search results: reducing meat consumption.
https://unfccc.int/gcse?q=meat%20consumption
Consider where this tripe comes from?
UNEP Document Repository
Search results: meat consumption climate change, 5 articles.
https://wedocs.unep.org/discover
It’s not meat or carbs.
It’s excess food intake into a body with minimum muscle engagement.
My rules to eat by,
Rule 0: Don’t eat when you aren’t hungry.
Rule 1: Eat when you are hungry.
Rule 2: Stop eating when you are full.
Rule 3: Eat what appeals to you.
Rule 4: Try new foods that may appeal to you.
I expect most people with weight problems have not made it past rule zero.
I wonder if this “professor” realises that his department would not even exist without the philanthropy of one of the great “polluters” of the world. Herbert Morris was his benefactor, but Herbert produced cars by the million in a period when they were polluting.
Bear in mind that Lord Nuffield i.e Bill Morris was the man who introduced mass production of Motor vehicles to Britain…
“Additional meat taxes would (be) brutally regressive. ” ?
This is just more demonisation of fat, likely responsible for the massive rise in obesity and diabetes, when people stopped eating healthy meals such as bacon and egg, and switched to unhealthy ones, such as toast and sugary cereals.
The “low-fat” paradox. I was in hospital, a while ago, and a “compulsory health education” course was prescribed. It was sort of interesting but nothing new that I already didn’t know.
But then, the “health educator” started talking about fat and sugar and “low fat” foods. Anyone who knows what they eat knows “low fat” foods mean “high sugar”. I tried to explain this to the “health educator”, who was all but 21 if that, reading from the printed course “material”, but no-go…just kept reading.
I also wanted to say google the “french paradox” regarding fat and rich foods.
Fat is good for you. They have been peddling the mistaken mantra for the last 30-40 years and only very slowly starting to realise that it is wrong. Sadly they have so much invested in it that the bureaucracy is unable to loose face and correct the advice.
This will take as long the AGW bandwagon to slow down and get back FACTS.
It will only change once the last of the true believers dies, like with all great scientific blunders.
Never buy “low fat” half and half; that “food” shouldn’t be allowed on grocery store shelves!
I would recommend not buying any processed foods at all. It’s not really that difficult, if you accept that some things like dairy are minimally processed.
I still buy processed condiments, but that is about all.
Actually with electronic health records, statisticians can do a lot of macro analysis across large populations. Basically they found a lot of interesting things. 75% of people having heart attacks have normal or below normal cholesterol levels. Older people with higher LDL levels live longer, and if you take statins to reduce LDL when you are older, you are opening yourself up to an earlier death.
Insulin sensitivity is the best predictor of health issues and generally your triglyceride to HDL ratio is really what you should use to judge where you stand, not your cholesterol levels. It should be at least less 2 and ideally less than 1. Avoid sugar and simple carbs like the plague. Omega 6 foods (seed oils especially) are bad for you, Omega 3 are good for you. Stay away from soy, especially if you are a male.
People who eat high fat diets are healthier than people who eat low fat diets. Fat does not cause cardio vascular disease, it is carbs that do. So you can eat eggs, red meat, cheese, butter and do just fine.
If you just get your butt off the couch, you will give yourself a 50% better chance of living longer. Moderate exercise is just about as good as higher levels of exercise. Lifting weights, especially as you age, is a great life extender. Some studies show lifting is actually more beneficial than cardio.
So if we stay active and eat pretty much the opposite of what the government and all the vegan/do-gooders tell us to eat, you will be healthier and live longer. In fact, the obesity epidemic pretty much started when the government told us to get fat out of our diets. Avoid sugar, simple carbs and seed oils and be well.
Please do link to sources. Would love to add them to my counter argument lists.
Me too!
Here is relevant very recent link from journal “Expert Review of Clinical Pharmacology, 11:10, pgs 959-970” thoroughly details multiple dynamics commentator rbabcock brought up. For free full text try: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17512433.2018.1519391
Here is an excellent article from the Guardian from 2016, when the tide started to turn against the anti-fat dogma, but climate change seems to have revived it:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
A few links
Higher cholesterol aging impact
http://www.ravnskov.nu/2015/12/27/myth-9/
https://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/381654
Saturated Fat doesn’t contribute to CVD, carbs do
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5040825/
https://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h3978
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/91/3/535/4597110
Vegetable oils (seed oils) are really bad for you
https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.e8707?ijkey=9ac7037cd3267140b69376635761751b9fbf4c9a&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha
Get off the couch / Insulin resistance
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109714071745
http://roguehealthandfitness.com/the-couch-potato-lifestyle-can-kill-you/
Resistance Training cutting CVD events abstract
https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstract/publishahead/Associations_of_Resistance_Exercise_with.96766.aspx
Read The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz | Why Butter, Meat …
https://thebigfatsurprise.com
for the surprising origin of the low fat diet ideology.
Avoiding sugar is all but impossible unless you’re saying don’t eat vegetables. Then you have a vitamin problem.
The three types of sugar you find in fruits and vegetables, sucrose, glucose, and fructose, are processed differently in your body. Glucose is the only one that can be transformed directly to glycogen, which happens in the liver. Fructose, on the other hand, can end up being converted to triglycerides and cholesterol. Our flabby youngsters have not been well served by our use of high fructose corn syrup.
Keep in mind that “high fructose” means more than 50%. If could be 51% or 91%, they don’t tell yo that.
And a lot of the “sports drinks” feature high fructose corn syrup as a major ingredient. So those who drink the stuff for a quick pick-me-up are packing a good portion of the calories into fat for long term storage. Of course, if you are burning 3000+ calories a day, you’ll metabolize that soon enough. But if you are a desk jockey, don’t be surprised if you find yourself using the next hole on your belt every few weeks. Old jocks often tend to be very large people because they didn’t change their habits as their life style evolved with age.
Yeah, could you link to the weight lifting study please? I can barely tolerate cardio, but I do. I quite enjoy moderate weight work.
You will get good benefits just by brisk walking where you can still talk to someone just make sure it is a minimum of 30 mins. No need to over stress yourself. Add a short session of weights, light with lots of reps and you will have a nice workout, 4 days a week is good. When starting out don’t forget to get your rest in between days to let your body recover and adjust.
“Tom in Florida November 8, 2018 at 8:55 am
You will get good benefits just by brisk walking where you can still talk to someone just make sure it is a minimum of 30 mins.”
Totally agree. I am over 50 and don’t have the weight others my age carry simply due to brisk walking.
Wow meat kills you!
I’ve followed the AGW show for many years watching scientists all agree that CO2 is going to kill us. Five years ago while dealing with a breathing disorder that was very difficult to diagnose and even more difficult to treat my midnight searches for internet answers took me to the lo-carb, low sugar and ketogenic sites. Almost all the hosts were doctors and researchers who had their own stories to tell about being diabetic even though they lived very healthy low fat and high exercise lives which was the standard of care. None of them were selling anything just relating to what they had suffered through and then through research effectively cured themselves by reducing or eliminating most processed carbs and drastically avoiding sugar. The nutrition scam is similar to the AGW one with non believers being vilified, even ridiculed.
So with this new way to eat I eliminated carbs which enabled me to shed 30 pounds but more importantly the medication that was not helping my breathing difficulty stated to work and now I am almost normal.
Names to search in the nutritional battle include Phinney, Noakes, Taubes, Nina Teicholz,Jeff Volek, Robert Lustig among many others. Excellent podcasts on YouTube from all. One of the best sites include Virta Health which is helping type 2 diabetics reduce or eliminate meds through diet alone…great info..https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbkeZcRugU8bUcOKwBIHjsg
May I add, read the “Great cholesterol con” by Dr Malcom Kendrick. All will fall into place.
The gibberish and money grabbing “doctors”, plus the idiots who give away money to them to attract votes. Guess who I am talking about!
The current findings certainly support a lower carbohydrate / higher fat diet. It is clear to me from research that has been published recently, that the ‘Standard Diet’ pushed by the Americans, was not based on any scientific findings that could be verified. Even the Ansell Keys findings, which drove the higher carbohydrate / lower fat mania since the 1960’s, have been contradicted by WHO research in the 1980’s.
It is interesting to note that support for the Standard Diet comes from organisations that benefit from increasing carbohydrates in the diet and pharmaceutical companies that benefit from producing medicines that treat the illnesses caused by this diet.
The Locarb Downunder series of conferences were an eyeopener or me. It made me realise what fake news we were getting about our diet and its safety. The exposure of the fraudulent basis that nitrites were linked to increased cancer left me seething.
From all that I have read and watched about current dietary and health issues, a diet rich in fresh, green and leafy vegetables, moderate amounts of protein from meat ( including fatty meats) and fish ( approx. 15% of caloric intake) and the balance from unsaturated and saturated fats and a moderate amount of physical exercise, is the best combination to combat obesity, Type II diabetes and surprisingly, Alzheimer’s disease. Added sugar and seed oils are to be eliminated. I have heard Alzheimer’s disease described as Type III diabetes due to emerging evidence to linkage with obesity and Type II diabetes.
In a long winded way, I therefore agree with many commenters on this topic, that the Oxford Professors behind this report have used their normal scientific mumbo jumbo epidemiological studies, to support a narrative that they have been paid to support. It would be interesting to see who sponsored or paid for their work. That will reveal a lot about the true nature of their evidence.
The science clearly incriminates insulin as the guilty party due to it being the driver of metabolic diseases. These loons want everyone to switch to an “all plant” diet of mostly grains, fruits and veggies. Meaning a very high carbohydrate (aka directly converted to sugars) which spikes blood insulin, spikes glucose, shuts down fat burning, etc. He doesn’t mention limiting any protein, regardless of source, to the number of protein grams for your ideal body weight (divide your ideal body weight by 2.2 for the gram maximum you should eat regardless of source). Note: excess protein is converted to glucose by the liver which then gets layered on as fat plus drives insulin. All those grains, the fruits and excess protein create an inflammatory witches brew.
The latest biological (as in chemistry of the body) science has proven that inflammation is:
1. the main cause of atherosclerosis and thus CAD (coronary artery disease) leading the heart attacks.
2. the main cause of diabetes
3. age related dementia (aka “Alzheimers”)
Plus the science has proven that cancers only use glucose/glycogen for food which means his diet will provide a huge boost to any cancers you may have by insuring they get enough food.
The absolute worst diet in the Universe one high in carbs and high in protein and even more so if it also includes lots of fruits which are mostly carbs and sugars. Unless his goal is population reduction by all the “epidemics” caused by these diets, he’s simply ignorant and agenda driven.
If you need to update yourself how your diet may be slowly killing you, search for names Dr. Thomas Seyfried (Phd,Biology,Boston College), Dr.Eric C Westman (MD, Duke University), Dr. Dominic P. D’Agostino on PubMed (the National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) US Gov site for all things medicine) for published research. Or read “Any Way You Can” by Dr. Bozworth *MD Internal Medicine) availble at Amazon. And then continue fact gathering using what you’ve read. There is a very large number of PubMed papers, Youtube sites, etc., for you to become knowledgeable of the science as ti stands today. For example, you’ll find why dementia is being referred to as Type III diabetes.
Focus on the biological proven science and not the whims of some loony climate change Professor lost in his agenda. The facts are on the web waiting.
“…ideal body weight…” in what units? Pounds? Grams? Kilograms? Stones? …?
More “Ideal body weight” is WHAT exactly.
Our work’s ‘Health Partners’ brought in an automatic health tester booth for us to play with a month or so back. Took about 5 measurements and then passed judgement.
For my height (174cm) my ‘ideal’ weight was 76kg (or there abouts).
My actual weight is 120kg because I am built like a rugby forward, but hey, dropping about 40 odd kilos would still be good for my health. Lose some of the fat or DIE you unhealthy slob being the implication.
Then the machine calculates my body fat % and comes up with about 25%. Now about 10% is what the VERY good athletes get too and anything below is a health risk. Ignoring this, 25% body fat for me works out to about 30 kilos, which mean to get down to my IDEAL body weight I would need to drop all my body fat AND still probably lop off a leg.
No saying I wouldn’t mind toning up and getting a beach body or that I am not carrying the amount of fat I would like, but if I ever get to my ‘ideal’ body weight you probably should be immediately calling me an ambulance.
Many vitamins and other micronutrients are fat-soluble, so a low body fat% can interfere with their uptake and storage.
Fat deposits can also act like holding tanks for the waste products of digestion and cell respiration, beneficially regulating the workload on the liver and kidneys.
Fat Is Your Friend
So, Dr Marco Springmann is essentially saying “Let them eat cake!”
Great essay Eric, as always..
“energy poverty is a very ( big / real ) problem in Britain” ?
Eric could have said that “Dr. Springmann is the very model of a modern Oxford professor.”
Mark “energy poverty ” yes, but this could also help with another UK problem.
consumption of red and processed meat has been associated with increased mortality from chronic diseases
Would cutting meat consumption also cut down on the numbers of Knives on the street? The stories abound of Death because of extra, stray Knives.
Unless something happened in research recently, everyone dies of something. Claims of increased health costs ignore the fact that if you die earlier, you end up costing the health system less over your entire lifetime. Have healthcare costs gone down with fewer people smoking? I think not.
Along those lines: for a lot of these issues (doing y will prevent x deaths by z), mortality studies show that the death rates do not change when subjects did y and did not die by z. They still died, they simply died for another reason, with no change in longevity.
Another candidate for the B-Ark.
“If you don’t eat your meat you can’t have any pudding … how can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat?” – Dr Marco Springmann
I see you are feeling in the pink today.
We are overdoing the criticism here. The academics are almost certainly right about the consumption of red meat as it affects individual health. They are, however, falling for the usual trap on climate change, accepting as truth things that are not in any way proven. This is a problem for all of us. The media will accept as factual any claim made by ‘scientists’, no matter how far their expertise is form the matter being discussed.
I’m never taking dietary advice about meat from academics and especially not from someone the internet.
In fact ‘academics’ studying human diet, have a record as bad if not worse than climate ‘scientists’. With Ancel Keys’ “7 countries study” being for the science of human diet, what the tree rings of the single tree on the Yamal peninsula was for climate science. An instructive book is “Good Calories Bad Calories” by Gary Taubes which covers the history of the ‘science’ at some depth.
Agreed. Not only is “dietary advice” based on supposed “science” riddled with misinformation, the number of times they have flip-flopped about what is or isn’t “bad” should tell you they haven’t got a clue.
I go with my gut on these things.
I also, generally, just eat what I feel like eating.
so maybe we should have a progressive meat (or animal protein) tax to protect our “individual” health?
200% on “red” meat.
100% on pork
50% on chicken
20% on rabbit
10% on fishies
5% on things without a face
And since it is for health purposes, even if we start to grow our chickens, rabbits, goats, etc, we still have to pay the tax. Its for our own good.
Negative 1000% on insects !
If they’ll pay me to eat a bug, I’ll eat a bug.
Come on Anthony, this dope is a ‘veganista’..Why does anyone here need to know about this unscientific ‘research’…
Far better to read this reply to the vegans : https://www.spiked-online.com/2018/08/30/eat-more-meat/
For me the only issue to investigate is why PLOS even publishes such bunk.
Thing that gest me is this is just one story coming from multiple media outlet prosletizing for
Low meat diets
High plant diets
Vegan cooking programs
To name just a few high have noted recently.
More elitist drivel… now eat up your cockroaches and then you can have a piece of celery…
Nothing wrong with meat and two veg… that’s what healthy working class folks used to eat, when sugar was rationed this health issue was not a problem and people had good teeth…
Tax on carbon meat sugar what next??
They want to tax “livestock-related emissions”? What’s next? An “emissions” tax at the supermarket when you purchase beans? My theory is that if you put barbecue sauce on red meat it cancels out the bad effect. I think I will model that theory, there, done, and I’m right!
My 96 year old grandfather would have confirmed that ketchup is an adequate substitute for the barbecue sauce (and that tobacco, in the correct form, harms only vision).
My 99 year old uncle would have confirmed that there is no bad effect, and that the barbecue sauce (with lots of brown sugar) is indeed good for you (him).
The previous WUWT story is about Jordan Peterson. His daughter had horrible physical problems until she eliminated everything from her diet except meat. link The problem is that she thinks that’s the solution for everyone.
Vegetarians think everyone should be like them. No. That’s just bad. Some people can’t even tolerate some foods. I get a major part of my nutrition from milk but some of my friends can’t cope with it. It’s genetic. link Some people will thrive on a vegetarian diet and some won’t for the same genetic reasons that produce lactose intolerance.
Taxing a certain food group is guaranteed to be extremely harmful to some people.
I totally agree cB. I cannot eat green, leafy vegetables, they clog me up. They also taste very bitter to me, perhaps my body telling me not to eat them. I am a protein and carb abuser. Had a colonoscopy at 63 and clean as a whistle. Genetics, genetics, genetics.
” Some people will thrive on a vegetarian diet…”
I disagree with this point. Yes, some people can survive on a vegetarian diet, but you can’t grow on it. That’s why it’s so appallingly bad for children and babies. Australia had a case around 20 years ago when a mother insisted on feeding her baby no meat whatsoever. He died, of course.
Vegetarians don’t get older than meat eaters. They only look and sound older.
Many times more flatulent too … not good for Gaia.
Cancel vegans.
Hey Mr Watts,
I was diagnosed with lung cancer a few weeks ago. I don’t want any pity, empathy, money, or any of the regular stuff. I just want to be able to write a few light-hearted comments on the unnecessarily morbid topic sometimes, without freakin’ people out. 🙂 Please?
I have on my side in this war, which I shall surely win, evidence based-conventional weapons—now highly focused on tumor only—plus cheap, safe and effective, over the counter drugs that kill cancer cells. These include:
* mebendezole – (a cheap, safe worm tablet!)
* meformin – (type 2 diabetes drug, appears to starve tumor cells of glucose better than normal cells)
N-ACety Cysteine with B6 & C during radiotherapy to portect normal cells
&
liposomal curcumin (same reason AS NAC/B6/C) All my oncologists are happy with my dual approach. No complaints from anyone
And to make my victory even more incredibly likely, I just happen to be the ideal candidate for the immunotherapy drug Keytruda(R).
My only serious impediment is the amount of opiates i need to eliminate the often extreme pain in my right arm so I can write.
Anyway if anyone thinks it’sa bad idea, tell me to piss off
Khwarizmi
Best of luck mate. Keep us posted.
Good luck to you in your struggle. Based on one unscientific sample(my wife) I suggest talking to your doctor about trying marijuana oil if it is an option where you are. In her case she was able to greatly reduce her opiate prescription. The cannabidiol (CBD) is what worked, not the THC. Hope it helps.
The red meat of this discussion is the NHS – defunding and LiverPool Life Pathway LCP. After all, they gave advice to Peter Orszag of Obama Healthcare which was widely seen as “lives unworthy to live” program like the infamous 1938 Aktion T4 (being the address of Hit-ler’s health ministry Tiergarten 4 Berlin). Trump and many others stopped Obamacare.
Behavioral economics is applied to the population to build a health system for the healthy only, for cost-benefit efficiency.
Britain must reject bevioral economics!
This is the obvious action to take following the latest IPCC SPM report.
Equally obviously, Macdonalds share price actually rose in the week following publication of the latest IPCC SPM report.
Because no-one believes that this is going to be taken seriously.
” … rose in the week following publication of the latest IPCC SPAM report. …”
Fixed it.
“Lead researcher Dr Marco Springmann”
I don’t think much of this loon, they already did the meatasaurus scarey story 20 years ago with no evidence whatsoever!
Another follower of Ancel Keys on diet, which is about as institutionalized as AGW.
And following the evaluations of the IARC, recently involved in the Roundup/glyphosate scam? Considering that one incident, any reports they put out should be held in the same regard as climate predictions by James Hansen.
Are all these climate science PhD’s under 25 years of age? Are PhD’s getting handed out like cupcakes at a day care? How about accumulating a few years of real work before becoming smarter than all the rest of us. PhD’s are about playing the political academic game, who you know, a non-controversial thesis, hand picked review committee, 75% smoozing & 25% knowing something useful.
Denver Post reports that Eldora ski area has opened the earliest in two decades with 41 inches of snow.
Breckenridge and A-Basin are open today. Just heard from a friend that there’s skim ice on an inland lake, and I have snow in my yard that’s not melting, (we’re just off the 45th parallel, elevation about 1200ft.)
Hey, thanks for the news. I’ll have to get up there for a few turns. https://www.eldora.com/the-mountain/webcams/mountain/timbers-live-cam
This is the kind of article that makes me want to go out and buy more red meat – delicious.
“One of Oxford University’s Famous Feasts.” I did laugh. It looks to me as if it’s breakfast in Hall. The absence of students implies that it probably occurred in the depths of a vacation.
Shoddy science not just in climate
Nina Teicholz – ‘Red Meat and Health