Guest essay by Eric Worrall
h/t michel – According to Guardian author Keith Kahn-Harris, Trump’s enabling of climate “deniers” is comparable to and possibly influenced by the allegedly growing tendency of extreme anti-semites to openly celebrate the mass murder of Jews in WW2, instead of cloaking their hatred with holocaust denial.
Denialism: what drives people to reject the truth
From vaccines to climate change to genocide, a new age of denialism is upon us. Why have we failed to understand it?
By Keith Kahn-Harris
Fri 3 Aug 2018 15.00 AEST…
Those who were previously “forced” into Holocaust denial are starting to sense that it may be possible to publicly celebrate genocide once again, to revel in antisemitism’s finest hour. The heightened scrutiny of far-right movements in the last couple of years has unearthed statements that might once have remained unspoken, or only spoken behind closed doors. In August 2017, for example, one KKK leader told a journalist: “We killed 6 million Jews the last time. Eleven million [immigrants] is nothing.” A piece published by the Daily Stormer in advance of the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville that same month ended: “Next stop: Charlottesville, VA. Final stop: Auschwitz.”
…
Still, over time it is likely that traditional denialists will be increasingly influenced by the emerging post-denialist milieu. After all, what oil industry-funded wonk labouring to put together a policy paper suggesting that polar bear populations aren’t declining hasn’t fantasised of resorting to gleeful, Trumpian assertions?
…
It is hard to tell whether global warming denialists are secretly longing for the chaos and pain that global warming will bring, are simply indifferent to it, or would desperately like it not to be the case but are overwhelmed with the desire to keep things as they are. It is hard to tell whether Holocaust deniers are preparing the ground for another genocide, or want to keep a pristine image of the goodness of the Nazis and the evil of the Jews. It is hard to tell whether an Aids denialist who works to prevent Africans from having access to anti-retrovirals is getting a kick out of their power over life and death, or is on a mission to save them from the evils of the west.
If the new realm of unrestrained online discourse, and the example set by Trump, tempts more and more denialists to transition towards post-denialism and beyond, we will finally know where we stand. Instead of chasing shadows, we will be able to contemplate the stark moral choices we humans face.
…
Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/aug/03/denialism-what-drives-people-to-reject-the-truth
What utter filth. Comparing climate skepticism to celebrating the murder of millions of Jews. Suggesting that people expressing skepticism of shaky scientific claims actually want to cause the death of millions. For shame, Guardian.
Climategate email 1120593115.txt, retired CRU director Phil Jones speaking.
… As you know, I’m not political. If anything, I would like to see climate change happen, so the science could be proved right, regardless of the consequences. This isn’t being political, it is being selfish …
Source: Wikileaks
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
And once again, progressives accuse the opposition of what they’re actually about.
Spot on there Joel. The biggest ‘anti semites’ going around these days, besides certain muslim fundamentalists and Palestinian thugs, are their fellow travelling green leftards in the West.
And it’s even worse than that – ‘anti-Semitism’ is certainly again rearing it’s ugly head, but it’s a fascist-style methodology they’re applying across the board, targeted against multple demographics. AND they’re spreading it globally.
All from the self-rationalized ‘moral high-ground’.
With Semites like that around, is it any wonder there is ‘anti-Semitism’ ?
This guy seems to have a score of articles published by the Guardian and only about two are NOT about ‘anti-Semitism , including bashing Jermemy Corbyn ,who is about as lefty, egalitarian , anti-racist as it gets, of being an anti-Semite.
At least they can no longer pretend that slurring those who have the intelligence to question the non-scientific dogma as “denierz” is not an assimilation with holocaust denial. Here he puts it in writing and the Guardian publishes it.
No. Corbyn is a Jew hater to the core and has been for all his political life. He longs for the destruction of Israel and welcomes those for whom the murder of Jews is a religious act of piety.
The planet’s real holocaust– never taught, never publicized.
UNDER THE SIGN OF THE SCORPION (Jüri Lina, Updated, 3rd edition)
https://www.amazon.com/Under-Sign-Scorpion-Soviet-Empire/dp/9197289779/ref=pd_sbs_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=9197289779&pd_rd_r=B0VFVSHM90WZXTFV0CE8&pd_rd_w=A5qiM&pd_rd_wg=GekFF&psc=1&refRID=B0VFVSHM90WZXTFV0CE8
Documentry taken from the book.
IN THE SHADOWN OF HERMES Jüri Lina (2009)
200 YEARS TOGETHER
http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/most-banned-book-in-the-world-200-years-together-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/
Kahn-Harris is so obsessed with attacking anti-semitism that I wonder just how jewish he actually is. Seems like he has a point to prove.
Fractionally jewish and not by the maternal line would be my guess.
Most of his books and papers seem to be centred of Judaism, Isael, and all things jewish are never far from the fore.
Oddly however, on his own web site “about me” , he deftly avoids any mention of of when and where he was born, whether he is of jewish descent, or even it he follows the jewish faith.
Strange omission for someone who puts such matters at the centre of his life.
The double barrelled name also suggested mixed parentage.
Is he in denial about his lack of pedigree?
indeeed, Greg,
A former CIA agent wrote an article about a few years ago, called:
“Dealing With Jewish self-absorption”
https://www.counterpunch.org/2004/02/07/dealing-with-jewish-self-absorption/
Counterpunch was started by CIA traitor Philip Agee. It is what would be called “Red-Brown in Russia –an analgam of Nazi and Communist ideology. Counterpunch shares stories with Stormfront.
but go figure, the Jewish population in the US consistently vote for Democrats who actually despise them.
Strange, isn’t it.
The same question can be asked regarding all the other minority groups.
PALESTINIANS ARE SEMITES
Palestinians ARE SEMITES
One kind of anti-semtism is completely kosher around here.
I think you are confusing Semites with Radical Islam.
You will get criticism of radical Islam around here, but it has nothing to do with race, ethnicity or anti-semitism.
Jews are also Semites. If you are an anti-Semite then you are biased against both Jews and Palestinians.
Palestinians were Christian when the Arab invasion took their land from the Byzantine Empire, and most remained so for centuries thereafter.
Lod and Ramla, the villages that used to occupy the site of Jerusalem’s Ben Gurion Airport, formerly Lydda, were historically Christian.
Today Christian Palestinians are sadly few in the Holy Land, but have joined the diaspora around the world. Many are in Latin America.
It is questionable whether Palestinians are semites. Because the land was fought over and conquered so many times in the last 2,000 years and because so much of the land was destroyed and allowed to go fallow, the population of the country of around 2 million in the time of Jesus had declined to less than 300,000 in the nineteenth century and the ruling Ottomans attempted to repopulate it with non-semitic Moslems.
In the 1922 Handbook of Palestine, edited by Henry Charles Luke, Assistant Governor of Jerusalem and Edward Keith-Roach, Assistant Chief Secretary to the Government of Palestine, and issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine, the total population was estimated at 754,509 of which the Moslem population was 583,188. As noted in the handbook,
“The Moslem total includes not only Arabs and Syrians, but a number of Circassian, Maghrabieh (North African), and Bosnian immigrants and a few Turkeman nomads.”
Elsewhere it was noted,
“A negroid element is found among the inhabitants of the tropical Ghor region of the lower Jordan Valley and around the Dead Sea. The presence of these people is attributed by some to a settlement from the Sudan, by others to the introduction of Negro slaves purchased at Mecca by pilgrims and retailed at Ma’an”.
Durng the time of the British Mandate the term “Palestinian” usually referreed to Jews, whereas the Moslem population were known as “Arabs”.
Most Arabs were semtes but prior to the birth of Islam a number of the tribes that populated Arabia, such as the Sabeans were not. Today many of the populations of countries that we know as Arab are not semites. The Morrocans, for example are mainly descended from the Berbers. Most of the native Egytian population is either descended from Coptic convwerts or remains Christian Copts. Most Iranians were never Arab. This ist is not exhaustive, but for those that have read so far this is more tanh ennough!
In that case, few if any Ashkenazi Jews would qualify as Semites. They have two millennia of admixture with non-Semitic populations, to a far greater extent than the peoples of Palestine, ie the southern Levant.
Antisemitism refers to the vile hatred of Jews that culminated in National Socialism and the attempt at genocide. It has nothing to do with the Palestinians except that they are suffused with it.
People are criticizing the Palestinians for what they do. Not who their parents were.
Are you capable of understanding the difference?
People are criticizing Jews for what they do, not who their parents were –
e.g. stealing Palestine and claiming it was “a land without people”
e.g. murdering Count Folke Bernadotte, the first UN Peace Mediator, who also rescued 1000s of Jews from German labor camps.
e.g. the massacre at Deir Yassin, and the proud display of the heaped corpses by the terrorist perpetrators
e.g, The King David Hotel terrorist act
e.g. The Lavon Affair (attempt to frame Egypt for Jewish terrorism)
e.g. repeated attack on the USS Liberty (attempt to frame Egypt for Jewish terrorism)
e.g. slaughtering American citizens like Rachel Corrie, for standing in the way of ethnic cleaning operations by Der Judenstaat)
etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, ad nausem
Among the thousands of prisoners Bernadotte got released were 1615 Jews. But they were only freed on April 15, 1945, three weeks before the end of the war in Europe.
Did you just try to justify the murder of Bernadotte by Jewish terrorists because he didn’t save enough “Chosen ones”, Theo?
If not, what was the point of your unreferenced claim regarding numbers?
Just pointing out that Bernadotte probably actually saved few if any prisoners. Some might have starved or been killed during the next six weeks, but concentration and labor camps were rapidly being overrun by the Allies during April and May 1945.
Nor did he rescue “thousands” of Jews from labor camps, as you falsely claimed.
Of course I don’t think that his murder was in any way justified.
What justified Bernadotte’s murder, Theo?
What justified the Lavon Affair?
What justified the repeated assault on the USS Liberty?
What justified the slaughter of Rachel Corrie?
What justified the terrorist attack on the King David Hotel?
What justified the massacre at Deir Yassin?
What other than racial supremacist thinking justifies a “Birthright” for Brooklyn-born bloodthirsty psychopaths?
Are you a “chosen one” or a lowly “goyim”, Theo?
And why don’t reference any of your faith-based assertions?
I keep telling you that none of my statements are based upon faith, as should be obvious, but fact.
I never said that any of those actions were justified. As a retired US naval officer, I’m sure I know a lot more about the Liberty incident than do you. Israel’s excuses are ludicrous.
LBJ and McCain’s dad behaved shamefully, for purely political reasons.
If I may be permitted to reply at some to only one of Kwarizimi’s observations:
The clergyman and historian, Reverend Dr James Parkes, wrote in his seminal work “Whose Land – a History of the Peoples of Palestine”.:
“Coupled with Arab intransigence in their political demands, two slogans gradually emerged which still more deflected any understanding of the real position by the Arab population. One was that Britain had given Palestine to the Jews and in so doing had given away what was not theirs to give…..Neither of these slogans is, in fact, true, though both were effective propaganda outside as well as inside the Middle East, because they could have been the explanation of observable phenomena.
As to the first, Britain neither gave land to the Jews, nor gave them any special privilege in buying it. Having recognised in the Balfour Declaration, that a historic Jewish right existed in the country she administered, she naturally allowed Jews to buy land in it. But Arabs were free to sell or not to sell, and to demand what price they liked. In fact Jews were indignant because Britain would not even ‘give’ them favourable rights in disposing of the substantial amounts of crown lands she inherited from the Turkish regime…What Britain did recognise is that there was room for the Jewish purchase of land without inflicting injustice to the existing inhabitants. But the land was bought in the open market.”
Contrary to the often stated corollary that not only had the land been stolen from the Arabs but that they had suffered as a result, the Arab population benefitted substantially from their sale of land to the Jews. Mandates Palestine Report of the Palestine Royal Commission (known as the Peel Commission after its Chairman, the Earl Peel) published by the League of Nations in 1937 states:
“The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine. Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land and the profitable investment of the purchase money. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews.”
“The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population. The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought.”
The eagerness of the Arabs, “including all the leading families such as the Husseinis, the Nashashibis, the Khalidis, the Dajanis and the Tamimis, to sell to the Jews at extortionate prices” was noted by the then Emir of Transjordan, and later King, Abdullah of Jordan who also stated:
“Or are you among those who believe that there is no harm in continuing the present deleterious mandate despite the Jewish usurpers it has brought and despite the demonstrated inability of those Palestinians now at the political helm to prevent their compatriots from selling their land? Furthermore, it is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping.”
Quite well done. A nice collection of classic Jew hating tropes which have settled well into the minds of those that long for evidence to confirm their simmering loathing. Palestine was always Jewish until the Arabs labelled themselves as such despite their motley origins from Morocco through Egypt to the Balkans. The land was hugely underpopulated until the early settlers brought competence to farming and attracted Arab Labour. Bernadotte was murdered, true. There was no massacre at Deirdre Yasmin, King David housed the British Security services and Corrie was a foolish girl who fell under a bulldozer.
Khwarizmi:
‘People are criticizing Jews for what they do, not who their parents were’
Mmmm. No. Although there are those that cherry-pick history to justify hatred. Ad nausem.
But I’m sure you’re a pure-blood ethnicity that never did anything to anyone.
If you want evidence of that then look at the British Labour party, and the scandal of anti-Semitic left wing extremists who are dominating the party.
Joel Snider: Perfect opening comment, in one pithy line.
From the Andrew Bolt blog
BRITISH LABOUR: THE PARTY OF JEW-HATERS
Jamie Rodney, a Jew, on why he’s left Britain’s Labour: “You join a political party because it looks like the only sane political force left in Britain. Then members of that party call you a kike, a Mossad agent, a Zionist whore… Members of that party deny the Holocaust. Councillors elected to represent that party call Jews blood drinkers.”
The British Labour party ? ohhh you mean the Third Reich
If the activists would concentrate on the science – then there would a lot less need to combat the denialism.
Yep …. Leftist let their emotions guide them when the issue demands a mental approach. Lucky for them, there are a lot of people who fall for the emotional trap.
idk Dr Deanster, its been my observation that many leftist are plenty mental. They’re just not logical or anywhere near as smart as they think they are.
Then perhaps you should read the Leuchter report.
https://www.ihr.org/books/leuchter/leuchter.toc.html
You might be surprised to find that so called climate deniers and holocaust deniers have much more in common (scientifically) than you think. Leuchter is an engineer.
As an engineer I am not a climate change denier I am a climate scientist despiser. The data is of such a poor standard if miserably fails the lowest cheap commercial product quality control tests by a huge margin. What is more that is just the current data. Earlier data can be shown by examples of thermometers surviving to be wholly inadequate for proving any measurement to sub degree accuracy.
Climate scientists have also failed to even try to replicate tests using old fashioned physical modelling that showed the effect of overdoing the clean air act or of the work done by equipment cooling engineers that shows the effect of even tiny reduction of air circulation caused by wind farms among other recent changes in land use and climate effects.
There are far too many uncertainties for the claims of climate scientists to be anything other than knowing fraud or staggering blinkered incompetence.
My father’s friends were at Auschwitz and I had a whole evening with one of Hitler’s guests talking about his slimming and tattoo parlour as he referred to it with his wry very Jewish humour.
Did you read the Luechter report or not? It is not about climate change. It’s about Auschwitz and several other similar concentration camps. It’s an engineer’s analysis and the conclusions are likely not what you have been taught.
Leuchter was an expert witness at the Zundel trials in 1984. At the time he was regarded as the top US expert on gas chambers and ran a consulting and design company. At the defense’s request he visited Auschwitz to inspect the chambers. At the trial he presented a very critical technical analysis. A lot has been written since then about his conclusions. One result is that the official death toll of Auschwitz dropped from four million to less than one million.
Leucter is kind of old hat nowadays. Curious individuals should peruse the books on Germar Rudolf’s site. I believe there are over 34 books, dealing with every aspect of that period. The books are highly technical and typically over 500 pages each.
Disgusting! What else needs saying? GK
Disgusting, but par for the course.
Makes me wish I gad a subscription to the Guardian with reporting like that W O W…
At least that way I could complain and have some action to take by cancelling the subscription…
Udder Tripe
Bryan A
You don’t need a subscription. Just toddle along and read their garbage that wouldn’t otherwise be read were It not free.
Filthy subversive rag!
I love to read and then ignore the pitch for money at the bottom of each Guardian article I encounter in online searches or follow up from here.
“Support The Guardian for as little as $1.” No.
be sure to activate your adblocker before you visit. You don’ t want to give them any revenue for winding up your blood pressure.
Did you mean utter as in absolute or was that intentional?
Purely intentional
try expressing your disguest to the readers’ editor:
guardian.readers@guardian.co.uk
keep it civil, they do read and are quite reactive. You do not need a subscription, they are more worried about on line revenue to keep them afloat these days.
Sweet
easiest way out…..stop getting caught lying
Thats what id expect from the Guarbagian
Is this post going to increase the readership of the Grauniad?
From 10 to 11? Yes, briefly
be sure to activate your adblocker before you visit. You don’ t want to give them any revenue for winding up your blood pressure.
….wait….
….
….
…sorry, just came back from the bathroom, thought I was going to up-chuck.
Why have we failed to understand it?
Because you’re an Intellectual, Yet Idiot! Period! Full stop! Drop the mike!
According to Reuter’s news, today, using pot during pregnancy causes brain damage,
So, how many of the “we religiously believe YOU are guilty” folk
use or had parents who used pot?
That’s not true. I used pot when my first wife was pregnant… or was it my second wife? Wait, did I even have a second wife? Maybe it was before I was married……what was the question?
Before Trump the polls put climate change last in order of importance. It’s the same nonsense trotted out again and again and no one is interested.
Major ratings killer, by their own admission. They can’t even “deny” THAT anymore!
You are referring to one of MSNBC’s propagandist’s (I forget his name) statement the other day that covering the subject of Climate Change was a ratings killer, I’m presuming.
Things aren’t looking good for the climate alarmists when the leftwing cable channels won’t even cover the subject.
How sweet it is! 🙂
It’s too bad these “scientists” don’t know the difference between an historical event and a computer model. Obviously, their grasp of reality is quite tenuous.
…I reserve the word “deniers” for people that are explicitly associated with advocacy groups that are politicizing this issue…I reserve the word “deniers” for people that explicitly reject the history of Jewish extermination in wartime Germany. When I see anyone legitimize the term “denier” in the context of this debate, an alarm bell goes off – “this is not a serious person”. To do so is to commit an unforgivable devaluation of the historical relevance of the word “denier. It’s a rhetorical tactic unworthy of anyone who wants their scientific credibility to remain above reproach. When the word “denier” first crawled out of the political slime, I fully expected those in science and media alike to reject it, vocally and without qualification…
-Judith Curry, Ph.D.
Professor & Chair, School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences (emerita)
Georgia Institute of Technology
Ph.D., Geophysical Sciences, University of Chicago, 1982
NASA Advisory Council Earth Science Subcommittee
Fellow, American Meteorological Society
Fellow, American Association for the Advancement of Science
Fellow, American Geophysical Union
___________________________________________
…I thought about putting a photo of the Holocaust from a concentration camp next to a few pages of mathematical equations – to make a point. But that would be truly awful. That would trivialize the memory of the terrible suffering of millions of people under one of the most evil regimes the world has seen. And that, in fact, is my point. I can’t find words to describe how I feel about the apologists for the Nazi regime, and those who deny that the holocaust took place. The evidence for the genocide is overwhelming and everyone can understand it. On the other hand, those who ascribe the word ‘denier’ to people not in agreement with consensus climate science are trivializing the suffering and deaths of millions of people. Everyone knows what this word means. It means people who are apologists for those evil jackbooted thugs who carried the swastika and cheered as they sent six million people to their execution…If you have no soul and no empathy for the suffering of millions under the Third Reich, keep calling people who don’t accept consensus climate science ‘deniers’. Otherwise, just stop.
-The Science of Doom
I first saw the use of “denier’ on an overhead slide during a presentation given by a
nobel laureate at Melbourne University ( a microbiologist professor who worked in health). The slide contained references to vaccination, smoking, the holocaust and ‘climate change’ (or was it ‘global warming’ ? – it was a while ago) and then the ‘D’ word. It was the most blatant bit of Nazi style propaganda and methinks Dr Goebbels would have been mightily impressed.
Anyway the target of this filth was a fellow professor at the university in question, the distinguished geologist Ian Plimer and who sat behind the speaker like a puppet master? David Karoly professor of ‘climate science’ at said university.
All was revealed as to the true lack of character of the pair of gutless swine.
“When the word “denier” first crawled out of the political slime, I fully expected those in science and media alike to reject it, vocally and without qualification…”
One of the worst elements of the abuse of science that is consensus climatology, and even worse the wholesale destruction of scholarship at Western Universities, is the way that the scientific societies and the academic administrators have just rolled right over.
They are either themselves likewise benighted or, perhaps more likely, moral cowards. They have surrendered everything of value to the mob.
It does not diminish the suffering of the European Jews to mention a historical figure – Chinggis khan. He slaughtered his way from Mongolia to Hungary because he heard they had the best grazing in the world. He would ask the head of a City state to hand over his wives to him and accept his rule. If he did not, he would attack and eliminate any of the population taller than a cart wheel. In three days he had a million people killed in one city. Later, he killed at least twenty million Chinese farmers because he felt farming was a waste of good grazing land.
There is competition, is what I am saying. Stalin is another, killing how many? 15m? He slaughtered one third of the men in Mongolia in one go. And Mao? Does anyone know? Each of these mass killers is unique. Not so the people they killed. Stalin killed all the Buddhist monks in Mongolia – that is targeted religious genocide. Mao killed anyone thought to be thinking wrong thoughts. Pol Pot killed anyone with education. Each maniac has his proclivities.
Let’s say, never again, for all of them.
Stalin is estimated to have killed 30-42 million of his own (unarmed) citizens. Mao between 46 million and 56 million.
In all, national socialist communist governments have killed some 110-115 million this century. Add another 62 million US taxpayers killed by the socialist abortion policies, perhaps another 60-80 million worldwide, to that total.
Pretty sure you mean last century.
Although they’re still at it.
Old habits die hard. I have to correct myself on that point from time to time.
It’s like forgetting what year or decade it is when writing a check. Not that anybody does that much any more.
Unless I make it to over 100, I’ll have lived most of my life in the 20th century. I’m a little disappointed in the 21st so far. OK, we have camera-phone-hand-held computers, verging on Dick Tracy-style two-way wrist TVs, but where are the flying cars we were promised?
Stalin and Mao were Communist, not National Socialist. There’s a huge difference.
National socialism is essentially ethnic. National socialist governments revere their traditions, culture, and people. On almost all issues, they are conservative traditionalists.
Communism is essentially ANTI-ethnic. All flavors of Marxism are utterly opposed to ethnic nationalism or populism. They obliterate traditional values, religion, art, and culture because they fear anything that transcends the power of government.
Cam this over-politicised issue possibly be taken to a place that is stranger than where this article takes it?
Huh. Guardian’s just as kooky as any US libtard media sources. Congrats, Guardian.
I still don’t see the merit in using the word “libtard”. It is completely awkward and isn’t clever. Additionally, it doesn’t paint us well when stooping to those levels.
How about “kooky as any US far-left media sources”. Additionally, are they even left anymore? I think they are so totalitarian they are off the chart.
let us just call them what they really are: “totalitarian statists”. I think that is the most appropriate term. They want all the control and power to exert over others, and their preferred method is state mandate, which is state sanctioned violence against non-complying members of society.
Totalists. There ya go. Totalist media sources.
I hate to say I Totalist so, but I totalist so
Scum is better, progressive scum, Dont waste your time telling me i should be ”nice”.
Their scum.
yes, calling anyone a retard because you do not agree with their politics is pretty pathetic and levels no valid point against them. It simply diminished any other points you may make.
It’s just juvenile name-calling. Coming from an adult that makes you look unintelligent or even retarded.
Can’t think of a worse name to call them than “progressive”.
Greg, grow a pair…
“Still, over time it is likely that traditional denialists will be increasingly influenced by the emerging post-denialist milieu. After all, what oil industry-funded wonk labouring to put together a policy paper suggesting that polar bear populations aren’t declining hasn’t fantasised of resorting to gleeful, Trumpian assertions?”
I’m having real problems in trying to make sense of this statement.
Firstly, what is a post denialist milieu? Is it the social environment after denying outlandish assertions? Or, the social environment that results from reality that none of the catastrophic claims by alarmists have occurred?
Is a “Trumpian Assertion”: “You guys are morons, none of this is happening, and should just STFU?”
So according the the acolytes, taking note of reality is merely another form of denialism.
Polar Bear populations aren’t declining.
Polar bear populations have declined by +5000 in this century. It just matters how you frame the statement.
Wouldn’t they have declined by -5000? Subtracting a negative and all that?
Better yet, just leave the + or – out of the statement.
The best I heard was framed “declined from 23,000 to 28,000.”
But isn’t that based on two reports that loosely based their estimates on two completely different sampling methodologies, resulting in numbers from each report of +/- 5,000? So that saying polar bear populations had increased could still be correct within the margin of error? We’ll have to ask Dr Crockford, at least we can trust her to give a straight answer.
Polar bears are DENIERS!!!
Rocketscientist I don’t think Kahn-Harris has any more of idea what ‘post denialist milieu’ means than you or I do. Otherwise he would have explained himself. It sounds erudite but is totally empty of meaning. With all this gibberish flying around in academia and the press, I am hoping their is another Alan Sokal out there.
“After all, what oil industry-funded wonk labouring to put together a policy paper suggesting that polar bear populations aren’t declining hasn’t fantasised of resorting to gleeful, Trumpian assertions?”
Is he referrring to our resident polar bear expert? She doesn’t take any oil money, but she does say polar bear population are not declining.
Revolting
“… As you know, I’m not political. If anything, I would like to see climate change happen, so the science could be proved right, regardless of the consequences. This isn’t being political, it is being selfish …”
And there lies the Socialists Lefts problem… They think ” The end justifies the means”… but the free people of the world do not agree !!
Amazing that the Guardian could go there, since their hero Jeremy Corbyn is the most vicious Jew hater in British politics today.
The Guardian is the mouth-piece of the PARLIAMENTARY Labour Party ( ie the MPs ) not THE Labour Party ( ie the voting members ).
the PLP hates Corbym who was elected by the grass-roots and have been trying mount a coup against him since he got elected leader.
Click on the author’s name at the top the guardian article and look at the tail of “anti-semite” and anti-Corbyte articles he has got printed.
This man belongs in a padded cell…
I was about to point out that only those who are a danger to themselves or others should be locked up.
Then I remembered the left’s long history of eliminating those who disagree with them.
and that is the frustrating part about all this. The only viable option is to ignore them, and if someone actually listens and believes them, at least attempt to use logic and reason to illustrate why they are not credible. If those people won’t listen…let them suffer the consequences of their own ignorance.
Unfortunately the consequences of their ignorance is rarely constrained to themselves alone. In the past the victims of such ignorance were burned for witchcraft.
when a person confronts you with an impenetrable wall of stupid, it is a declaration that reason can never prevail. understand it is not innocent nor accidental.
it is a declaration of war on your mind- your primary means of survival.
when reason fails, there is only force remaining.
so cut to the chase and just feed them their teeth. it ends up worse if you don’t stop it there. but that’s ok, too. darwin does no wrong ever.
“when a person confronts you with an impenetrable wall of stupid … cut to the chase and just feed them their teeth”
I often feel that your own poorly-punctuated comments present a “wall of stupid,” gnomish.
Are you sure you want to preach that message of intolerance and violence?
f is for feelz and another word for something not in my inventory to supply you with any.
your metaphysics is also poor if you equate speech with violence.
SMACK- did that hurt? awwww. boo frikn hoo.
news flash! words can’t hurt you. consult kindergarten teacher for details.
bring some more phobias trigglypuff.
i’ll show you how toothless your pc whining is.
gnomish, writing like a poorly educated guttersnipe grammar school boy just makes your posts all the more laughable.
oh, schwa… another brick.
bilabial fricative, guttural monophthong, and a plosive consonant!
(confess- aren’t you just aching to get your hands on a big dic-
tionary about now?)
ollie had stanley
bud had lou
ricky had tommy
and i gots you.
What is Islam but a message of male chauvinism, intolerance and violence? A crime against humanity perpetrated by a fictionalizing fraudster who passed off a pack of lies, a Cliff Notes version of Syriac Christian scripture purloined in the Levant, by the gold-digging husband of a rich widow who later hypocritically married three times the number of women and girls allowed mere adherents, to include nine and 11 year olds. Mu was considered disgusting even in the prev’s own time.
Wasn’t the Jewish flood story purloined from Gilgamesh?
I guess that’s ok given your maintenance and promotion of double standards….
What is Judaism but a message of male chauvinism, intolerance and violence?
What is Christianity but a message of male chauvinism, intolerance and violence?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/women/long.html
Much of the Old Testament comes from Mesopotamian and Egyptian sources.
What double standard? I’m not an apologist for Israel. Its interests have often conflicted with America’s. Its right to exist IMO isn’t biblical, but by conquest, same as practically every other country on the planet.
Who has killed more Arabs and Muslims, the Assad family or Israel? Saddam or Israel? Not even close.
the world needs moar mohammedan concern trolls, right?
lame game, abu.
the world’s great slavers don’t get to cry about slavery
“let them suffer the consequences of their own ignorance.”
Unfortunately it’s not just themselves that would suffer as they wish to impose the consequences of their ignorance on the rest of society.
The US is the only Western nation that does not use acelluar pertussis vaccine. High rates of autism? When things go wrong the doctor just hands the child back to you and says, “your problem”. Is the cure worse than the disease? Yeah, I had my kids vaccinated. I think they got the whooping cough from the vaccine. ” It’s just their sinuses”, All 14 American doctors said. The Philippine doctor said, ” why didn’t you take them to the doctor, these children have whooping cough” . I had to find a non American doctor overseas to treat them. I was fortunate that I had the resources to do so. Many don’t have those options available to them.
Fix the system and you won’t have reluctance to get vaccines. Remember the swine flu in the 1970’s ? That vaccine killed people. Thereafter, people were sicker from the annual flu vaccine than the actual flu. And people don’t want to have their children vaccinated? I wonder why?
There is the illusion of top rated medical care and the reality.
There is the illusion of ‘climate change’ via co2 and the reality.
The reality is that co2 follows temperature. Whatever caused the Current Warming Period ( Current Warming Anomaly) can also make it colder. We know very little about the climate. Otherwise, I’d make a model and it would be accurate. Making catastrophic claims then having none of them occur isn’t science.
When the Arctic sea either doesn’t melt or expands AGW people will move on to some other ‘ this is being caused by global warming ‘ event. I suspect the drought in Europe or they will relabel the cold that killed a lot of food production this year is a result of global warming.
I’m not in denial, I’m saying that AGW is flat out wrong. Some warming yes, MAN MADE .. NO.
Half wits pretending to be scientists and dim wits repeating it as fact. That’s what the current mantra is on ‘climate change’.
1986 Vaccine Injury Act. Start your research there. Vaccines are another hoax, from top to bottom.
here come the downvotes!
m.naturalpharmainternational.com/1/vaccine_theory_proven_wrong_study_by_nih_7227814.html
just one random source. Jon Rappaport also has discussed titers in depth. As has Dr. John Bergman, amongst a litany of other professionals, many of whom left the industry, Such as Dr. Sheryl Tenpenny. Of course though, the same tactics of “denier” and personal attacks are levied by the same people who point out such tactics of the left regarding climate.
CO2 as the foundation of CAGW
antibodies as the foundation of vaccination.
Where are the studies measuring long term health between vaccinated and non-vaccinated?
Hmm. interesting.
just raw emotional immaturity of paradigm protecting religiousity when it comes to people who buy into the safety and efficacy of vaccines. No different from the typical warmists, who haven’t spent a fraction of time investigating as those on here. The same applies to most of you who defend vaccination. So much hypocrisy it is troubling.
Ummm …. no down vote, but being as vaccines are my neck of the woods …. I’d have to say yes and no. Some have been very effective (small pox, polio), others … not so much. I personally think one of the problems is the schedule. I never agreed with presenting a developing immune system with such a large challenge all at once at such a young age. If autism is connected, it is most likely an auto immune response resulting from overstimulating an immature immune system. It’s all the result of using incomplete info to initiate an action. …. kinda like the drive to demonize CO2 to combat so called global warming (which is not global at all).
[The mods thank Dr. Deanster for his response, and with it, note that since vaccines and autism are way off topic, this discussion is now ended. Thank you for your cooperation. -mod]
Bare one thing in mind Dr. Deanster…
If and when (far more likely when) the diseases that vaccinations have all but ended start making their rounds again (they ALL still exist in Lab Environs and “Getting Out” is still a probability), it will be the Anti-Vaxer’s children that will be most at risk not those whose parents had the foresight to get them vaccinated.
Which vaccine is useful?
S-T,
Which vaccines do you imagine cause problems, such as the MS and autism so often cited by opponents without any evidence?
Among the many which are useful, I’d start with smallpox, which has been eradicated in the wild thanks to vaccination. Pasteur’s 1885 rabies vaccine was improved in 1908. It’s still useful.
We are similarly on the verge of eradicating polio, again thanks to vaccines. Measles and tetanus have been restricted to those areas in which vaccination hasn’t been regular.
The effectiveness of flu, HPV and chicken pox vaccines has been intensively studied and verified.
Diphtheria and whooping cough were deadly scourges well into the 20th century even in the developed world, until defeated by vaccination. Because of immigration and misguided parents, pertussis is making a comeback in the US.
Thanks to the TB vaccine, TB was practically eradicated in the developed world, too, but now it’s also returning. Still, the vaccine is mostly used only in the less developed world. I had to get it before going to Afghanistan, however.
Vaccines exist today for over two dozen preventable infections.
Polio vaccine is causing a polio syndrome in India.
The Hep B vaccine caused MS to go from 30000 to 80000 in France, while the definition of MS was changed to require confirmation by RMI (thus decreasing the measure).
The HPV vaccine is known to cause increased cancer risk for those with HPV and paralysis.
There is no evidence what os ever that the flu vaccine does any good, ever. It’s the most inane vaccine, ever.
Please provide sources for these preposterous myths for which you’ve fallen.
Thanks.
Several excellent studies have found no connection between Hep B and other vaccines and MS.
https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccines-and-other-conditions/vaccines-multiple-sclerosis
I was born in ’49, in Europe, and thus was vaccinated against a very small number of diseases. I survived them all, plus some I had not been vaccinated against, pity for my friends who had not had the same protection, and who are now dead.
Smallpox …
Polio …
Mumps (you don’t want that illness after puberty) …
Rabies (even a rabid Chihuahua can ruin your whole day)…
A far smaller list would be
Which vaccines are unuseful?
More adolescents and adults are now having to be vaccinated because anti-vaxers poisoned their mom’s minds against these essential medical wonder drugs.
Childhood diseases such as measles, mumps and chicken pox are indeed deadly to adults. In the Civil War, it was the strapping farm boys who died in camp because they had grown up isolated. The pasty-faced, puny city boys survived because they had been exposed as infants or young kids to these potential killers.
The chicken pox virus of course can also painfully reemerge in adulthood as shingles.
Who is at risk of polio in the civilized world? There is no polio here. So the benefit is nil.
Are you vaccinated against smallpox?
If you don’t want a disease after puberty, why do you want a temporary immunity that guarantees you are prevented from getting a better immunity before puberty?
S-T,
The simple fact escapes you that polio is almost eradicated in the developed world precisely because of vaccines. That smallpox was eradicated in the wild is likewise thanks to vaccination.
Apparently you don’t understand immunity. We need vaccines against childhood diseases not just to keep the kids from catching and dying of them, but so that adults won’t get the diseases either. They are often more deadly to adults than kids.
“The simple fact escapes you that polio is almost eradicated in the developed world precisely because of vaccines”
Another fact you just made up.
You don’t know anything about infectious diseases.
How do you explain the fact that “polio” (whatever “polio” was at the time, the definition wasn’t changed at the time AFAIK) went down after WWI in the US?
“They are often more deadly to adults than kids”
This is what I was explaining, duh.
All vaccines are useful. Flu vaccines vary in effectiveness from year to based on how well the scientists guessed which strains would be dominate a year in advance.
Some more useful vaccines:
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/vaccines-that-save-lives-around-the-world-infographic/
Some 732,000 US kids’ lives saved in 1994-2014:
https://www.livescience.com/45111-national-vaccination-effects.html
Billions of lives saved since Jenner’s time (1796, although inoculation began long before then), and the terrible shame of so many not saved:
https://www.livescience.com/45111-national-vaccination-effects.html
The hide of Blossom, the cow from which Jenner’s cowpox vaccine (hence the name!) was ultimately derived, still hangs in the library of St. George’s University of London, Tooting:
“All vaccines are useful”
To get MS? To destroy people’s lives?
Please provide some evidence that some vaccine causes MS.
You won’t because you can’t. No such evidence exists.
You’ve bought into a dangerous lie.
Above I link to some of the studies finding no correlation between vaccines and MS.
You are free to have your own opinions, but not your own facts.
Vaxxism is like climatism, a religion.
Correct…Vaxxism as practiced by antivaxxers is most certainly a religion like Scientology
Pro vax propaganda is more inane than warmist propaganda. If you are not brain dead, you can’t fall or it.
Science is now propaganda?
There is no science in the church of vaccines.
Do you really imagine that virtually the entire medical and scientific community in the world, who have seen and know the inestimable value of vaccines, is brain dead?
I’m afraid that the dangerous brain affliction is all yours.
Any “denier” is punished, excluded, etc.
Why can’t you accept the right to carry healthcare like the right to carry guns?
I buy my own guns and pay for my own healthcare. I’m now on Medicare, but I paid for that over the decades, too.
https://www.iheart.com/content/2017-11-27-meet-the-last-man-on-earth-who-uses-an-iron-lung/
too young to remember?
I’m old enough to remember when summer was kinda horrible because of the looming fear of polio. I was in third grade with the Salk vaccine came out and all the kids were lined up in school to get the shots. It is hard for people of my generation to have a negative view of vaccines.
I think Keith Harris should start a world tour, fly around…get the message out there, preach about this topic, show folks how to go without fossil fuels. What a leftist hypocrite he is, because it is he who is in denial of all his energy use.
One constant I’ve experienced with leftists is their utterly unshakable conviction that they are on the side of the angels.
From there it’s a small step to the assumption that anyone who disagrees with you is evil.
Then, since leftists are not able to handle much in the way of complexity, it’s another small step to assume that if are evil in one aspect (denying that CO2 is going to kill us), then you must be evil in all aspects.
The next step is usually the conclusion that those who are evil must be killed.
That’s called ‘rationalization’.
Although, I would argue that there is an intermediate step in dealing with ‘evil’, where they can be satisfied with mere imprisonment.
‘On the right side of history’ is the way they usually phrase it. Which justifies anything, because History.
And which is why, when they realize that history is passing them by, they freak the heck out.
The more they do this the more they weaken their position.
“…reject the truth…” What truth are you talking about?
I notice it isn’t anything specific or testable. Therefore by definition it is not science. So what truth are you talking about? Mr. Harris is supposedly a sociologist and therefore not a scientist by any definition I would likely recognize, still would it be too much trouble for him to define how he arrives at “truth”?
It is clear from his article he understands neither the issue of climate change nor the horror of the holocaust. he and the Guardian should just be embarrassed.
Phil and his disciples need to figure out the difference between computer model output from forecasts and reality. Sadly, I see no hope for that in my lifetime.
Ahh, now I understand. From HIS own biography: http://www.kahn-harris.org/biography/
Since receiving my PhD in sociology in 2001, I have sought to further my passion for research …. I have taught at …., specialising in the teaching of research methods …. As a freelance researcher, I have published accessible research-based reports. As a writer, my ….. A burning curiosity about the social world has led me to expand my areas of expertise: from his (strange, he goes into and out of third-person) work on global extreme metal scenes (the topic of his PhD), to … my guiding thread is a desire to know more. I am at my most fulfilled when immersing myself in an archive, interviewing an informant or observing a community gathering and I seeks out clients and projects that enable him to do this.
So it all makes sense now. He “sees” people but doesn’t understand human nature. He “sees” the world around him but doesn’t understand the actuality of it – only what his brain “wants” it to be – for/at the lack of that, he would go insane.
While it might be best to ignore him, it does beg the question: Where is your research, “research specialist” Dr. Keith Kahn-Harris, relating to your G. article? AND if you are such a damn good researcher, why is it so hard for YOU ”to tell” what we are secretly longing for, or are simply indifferent to, or would desperately like, or are overwhelmed by, or want to keep, etc. – – Oh wait, he’s also into heavy “Extreme” metal… and he lives in London… figures… need I say it?
Amazing that he is a climate expert, with zero training! A feat that only a lefty can accomplish.
I stopped at sociology