The Guardian: The Rise of Post Denialism – Celebrating the Holocaust, Denying Climate Change

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

h/t michel – According to Guardian author Keith Kahn-Harris, Trump’s enabling of climate “deniers” is comparable to and possibly influenced by the allegedly growing tendency of extreme anti-semites to openly celebrate the mass murder of Jews in WW2, instead of cloaking their hatred with holocaust denial.

Denialism: what drives people to reject the truth

From vaccines to climate change to genocide, a new age of denialism is upon us. Why have we failed to understand it?

By Keith Kahn-Harris
Fri 3 Aug 2018 15.00 AEST

Those who were previously “forced” into Holocaust denial are starting to sense that it may be possible to publicly celebrate genocide once again, to revel in antisemitism’s finest hour. The heightened scrutiny of far-right movements in the last couple of years has unearthed statements that might once have remained unspoken, or only spoken behind closed doors. In August 2017, for example, one KKK leader told a journalist: “We killed 6 million Jews the last time. Eleven million [immigrants] is nothing.” A piece published by the Daily Stormer in advance of the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville that same month ended: “Next stop: Charlottesville, VA. Final stop: Auschwitz.”

Still, over time it is likely that traditional denialists will be increasingly influenced by the emerging post-denialist milieu. After all, what oil industry-funded wonk labouring to put together a policy paper suggesting that polar bear populations aren’t declining hasn’t fantasised of resorting to gleeful, Trumpian assertions?

It is hard to tell whether global warming denialists are secretly longing for the chaos and pain that global warming will bring, are simply indifferent to it, or would desperately like it not to be the case but are overwhelmed with the desire to keep things as they are. It is hard to tell whether Holocaust deniers are preparing the ground for another genocide, or want to keep a pristine image of the goodness of the Nazis and the evil of the Jews. It is hard to tell whether an Aids denialist who works to prevent Africans from having access to anti-retrovirals is getting a kick out of their power over life and death, or is on a mission to save them from the evils of the west.

If the new realm of unrestrained online discourse, and the example set by Trump, tempts more and more denialists to transition towards post-denialism and beyond, we will finally know where we stand. Instead of chasing shadows, we will be able to contemplate the stark moral choices we humans face.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/aug/03/denialism-what-drives-people-to-reject-the-truth

What utter filth. Comparing climate skepticism to celebrating the murder of millions of Jews. Suggesting that people expressing skepticism of shaky scientific claims actually want to cause the death of millions. For shame, Guardian.

Climategate email 1120593115.txt, retired CRU director Phil Jones speaking.

… As you know, I’m not political. If anything, I would like to see climate change happen, so the science could be proved right, regardless of the consequences. This isn’t being political, it is being selfish …

Source: Wikileaks

Advertisements

217 thoughts on “The Guardian: The Rise of Post Denialism – Celebrating the Holocaust, Denying Climate Change

    • Spot on there Joel. The biggest ‘anti semites’ going around these days, besides certain muslim fundamentalists and Palestinian thugs, are their fellow travelling green leftards in the West.

      • And it’s even worse than that – ‘anti-Semitism’ is certainly again rearing it’s ugly head, but it’s a fascist-style methodology they’re applying across the board, targeted against multple demographics. AND they’re spreading it globally.

        All from the self-rationalized ‘moral high-ground’.

      • but go figure, the Jewish population in the US consistently vote for Democrats who actually despise them.

      • PALESTINIANS ARE SEMITES
        Palestinians ARE SEMITES

        One kind of anti-semtism is completely kosher around here.

        • I think you are confusing Semites with Radical Islam.

          You will get criticism of radical Islam around here, but it has nothing to do with race, ethnicity or anti-semitism.

          Jews are also Semites. If you are an anti-Semite then you are biased against both Jews and Palestinians.

          • Palestinians were Christian when the Arab invasion took their land from the Byzantine Empire, and most remained so for centuries thereafter.

            Lod and Ramla, the villages that used to occupy the site of Jerusalem’s Ben Gurion Airport, formerly Lydda, were historically Christian.

            Today Christian Palestinians are sadly few in the Holy Land, but have joined the diaspora around the world. Many are in Latin America.

          • It is questionable whether Palestinians are semites. Because the land was fought over and conquered so many times in the last 2,000 years and because so much of the land was destroyed and allowed to go fallow, the population of the country of around 2 million in the time of Jesus had declined to less than 300,000 in the nineteenth century and the ruling Ottomans attempted to repopulate it with non-semitic Moslems.

            In the 1922 Handbook of Palestine, edited by Henry Charles Luke, Assistant Governor of Jerusalem and Edward Keith-Roach, Assistant Chief Secretary to the Government of Palestine, and issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine, the total population was estimated at 754,509 of which the Moslem population was 583,188. As noted in the handbook,

            “The Moslem total includes not only Arabs and Syrians, but a number of Circassian, Maghrabieh (North African), and Bosnian immigrants and a few Turkeman nomads.”

            Elsewhere it was noted,

            “A negroid element is found among the inhabitants of the tropical Ghor region of the lower Jordan Valley and around the Dead Sea. The presence of these people is attributed by some to a settlement from the Sudan, by others to the introduction of Negro slaves purchased at Mecca by pilgrims and retailed at Ma’an”.

            Durng the time of the British Mandate the term “Palestinian” usually referreed to Jews, whereas the Moslem population were known as “Arabs”.

            Most Arabs were semtes but prior to the birth of Islam a number of the tribes that populated Arabia, such as the Sabeans were not. Today many of the populations of countries that we know as Arab are not semites. The Morrocans, for example are mainly descended from the Berbers. Most of the native Egytian population is either descended from Coptic convwerts or remains Christian Copts. Most Iranians were never Arab. This ist is not exhaustive, but for those that have read so far this is more tanh ennough!

          • In that case, few if any Ashkenazi Jews would qualify as Semites. They have two millennia of admixture with non-Semitic populations, to a far greater extent than the peoples of Palestine, ie the southern Levant.

          • Antisemitism refers to the vile hatred of Jews that culminated in National Socialism and the attempt at genocide. It has nothing to do with the Palestinians except that they are suffused with it.

        • People are criticizing the Palestinians for what they do. Not who their parents were.
          Are you capable of understanding the difference?

          • People are criticizing Jews for what they do, not who their parents were –

            e.g. stealing Palestine and claiming it was “a land without people”

            e.g. murdering Count Folke Bernadotte, the first UN Peace Mediator, who also rescued 1000s of Jews from German labor camps.

            e.g. the massacre at Deir Yassin, and the proud display of the heaped corpses by the terrorist perpetrators

            e.g, The King David Hotel terrorist act

            e.g. The Lavon Affair (attempt to frame Egypt for Jewish terrorism)

            e.g. repeated attack on the USS Liberty (attempt to frame Egypt for Jewish terrorism)

            e.g. slaughtering American citizens like Rachel Corrie, for standing in the way of ethnic cleaning operations by Der Judenstaat)

            etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, ad nausem

          • Among the thousands of prisoners Bernadotte got released were 1615 Jews. But they were only freed on April 15, 1945, three weeks before the end of the war in Europe.

          • Did you just try to justify the murder of Bernadotte by Jewish terrorists because he didn’t save enough “Chosen ones”, Theo?

            If not, what was the point of your unreferenced claim regarding numbers?

            The Jews, I find are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment. Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog
            -President Truman
            https://www.trumanlibrary.org/diary/page21.htm

            https://attendingtheworld.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/jewish-settlers-are-evil.jpg

          • Just pointing out that Bernadotte probably actually saved few if any prisoners. Some might have starved or been killed during the next six weeks, but concentration and labor camps were rapidly being overrun by the Allies during April and May 1945.

            Nor did he rescue “thousands” of Jews from labor camps, as you falsely claimed.

            Of course I don’t think that his murder was in any way justified.

          • What justified Bernadotte’s murder, Theo?

            What justified the Lavon Affair?

            What justified the repeated assault on the USS Liberty?

            What justified the slaughter of Rachel Corrie?

            What justified the terrorist attack on the King David Hotel?

            What justified the massacre at Deir Yassin?

            What other than racial supremacist thinking justifies a “Birthright” for Brooklyn-born bloodthirsty psychopaths?
            https://lh6.ggpht.com/_WMomW_OV7Vg/SehjrP75ffI/AAAAAAAAAFg/YFJVZ547aSk/birthright.jpg

            Are you a “chosen one” or a lowly “goyim”, Theo?

            And why don’t reference any of your faith-based assertions?

          • I keep telling you that none of my statements are based upon faith, as should be obvious, but fact.

            I never said that any of those actions were justified. As a retired US naval officer, I’m sure I know a lot more about the Liberty incident than do you. Israel’s excuses are ludicrous.

            LBJ and McCain’s dad behaved shamefully, for purely political reasons.

          • If I may be permitted to reply at some to only one of Kwarizimi’s observations:

            The clergyman and historian, Reverend Dr James Parkes, wrote in his seminal work “Whose Land – a History of the Peoples of Palestine”.:

            “Coupled with Arab intransigence in their political demands, two slogans gradually emerged which still more deflected any understanding of the real position by the Arab population. One was that Britain had given Palestine to the Jews and in so doing had given away what was not theirs to give…..Neither of these slogans is, in fact, true, though both were effective propaganda outside as well as inside the Middle East, because they could have been the explanation of observable phenomena.

            As to the first, Britain neither gave land to the Jews, nor gave them any special privilege in buying it. Having recognised in the Balfour Declaration, that a historic Jewish right existed in the country she administered, she naturally allowed Jews to buy land in it. But Arabs were free to sell or not to sell, and to demand what price they liked. In fact Jews were indignant because Britain would not even ‘give’ them favourable rights in disposing of the substantial amounts of crown lands she inherited from the Turkish regime…What Britain did recognise is that there was room for the Jewish purchase of land without inflicting injustice to the existing inhabitants. But the land was bought in the open market.”

            Contrary to the often stated corollary that not only had the land been stolen from the Arabs but that they had suffered as a result, the Arab population benefitted substantially from their sale of land to the Jews. Mandates Palestine Report of the Palestine Royal Commission (known as the Peel Commission after its Chairman, the Earl Peel) published by the League of Nations in 1937 states:

            “The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine. Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land and the profitable investment of the purchase money. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews.”

            “The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population. The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought.”

            The eagerness of the Arabs, “including all the leading families such as the Husseinis, the Nashashibis, the Khalidis, the Dajanis and the Tamimis, to sell to the Jews at extortionate prices” was noted by the then Emir of Transjordan, and later King, Abdullah of Jordan who also stated:

            “Or are you among those who believe that there is no harm in continuing the present deleterious mandate despite the Jewish usurpers it has brought and despite the demonstrated inability of those Palestinians now at the political helm to prevent their compatriots from selling their land? Furthermore, it is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping.”

          • Quite well done. A nice collection of classic Jew hating tropes which have settled well into the minds of those that long for evidence to confirm their simmering loathing. Palestine was always Jewish until the Arabs labelled themselves as such despite their motley origins from Morocco through Egypt to the Balkans. The land was hugely underpopulated until the early settlers brought competence to farming and attracted Arab Labour. Bernadotte was murdered, true. There was no massacre at Deirdre Yasmin, King David housed the British Security services and Corrie was a foolish girl who fell under a bulldozer.

          • Khwarizmi:
            ‘People are criticizing Jews for what they do, not who their parents were’

            Mmmm. No. Although there are those that cherry-pick history to justify hatred. Ad nausem.
            But I’m sure you’re a pure-blood ethnicity that never did anything to anyone.

      • If you want evidence of that then look at the British Labour party, and the scandal of anti-Semitic left wing extremists who are dominating the party.

    • From the Andrew Bolt blog
      BRITISH LABOUR: THE PARTY OF JEW-HATERS
       Jamie Rodney, a Jew, on why he’s left Britain’s Labour: “You join a political party because it looks like the only sane political force left in Britain. Then members of that party call you a kike, a Mossad agent, a Zionist whore… Members of that party deny the Holocaust. Councillors elected to represent that party call Jews blood drinkers.”

  1. If the activists would concentrate on the science – then there would a lot less need to combat the denialism.

    • Yep …. Leftist let their emotions guide them when the issue demands a mental approach. Lucky for them, there are a lot of people who fall for the emotional trap.

      • idk Dr Deanster, its been my observation that many leftist are plenty mental. They’re just not logical or anywhere near as smart as they think they are.

      • As an engineer I am not a climate change denier I am a climate scientist despiser. The data is of such a poor standard if miserably fails the lowest cheap commercial product quality control tests by a huge margin. What is more that is just the current data. Earlier data can be shown by examples of thermometers surviving to be wholly inadequate for proving any measurement to sub degree accuracy.
        Climate scientists have also failed to even try to replicate tests using old fashioned physical modelling that showed the effect of overdoing the clean air act or of the work done by equipment cooling engineers that shows the effect of even tiny reduction of air circulation caused by wind farms among other recent changes in land use and climate effects.
        There are far too many uncertainties for the claims of climate scientists to be anything other than knowing fraud or staggering blinkered incompetence.

        • My father’s friends were at Auschwitz and I had a whole evening with one of Hitler’s guests talking about his slimming and tattoo parlour as he referred to it with his wry very Jewish humour.

        • Did you read the Luechter report or not? It is not about climate change. It’s about Auschwitz and several other similar concentration camps. It’s an engineer’s analysis and the conclusions are likely not what you have been taught.

          • Leuchter was an expert witness at the Zundel trials in 1984. At the time he was regarded as the top US expert on gas chambers and ran a consulting and design company. At the defense’s request he visited Auschwitz to inspect the chambers. At the trial he presented a very critical technical analysis. A lot has been written since then about his conclusions. One result is that the official death toll of Auschwitz dropped from four million to less than one million.

            Leucter is kind of old hat nowadays. Curious individuals should peruse the books on Germar Rudolf’s site. I believe there are over 34 books, dealing with every aspect of that period. The books are highly technical and typically over 500 pages each.

  2. ….wait….
    ….
    ….
    …sorry, just came back from the bathroom, thought I was going to up-chuck.
    Why have we failed to understand it?
    Because you’re an Intellectual, Yet Idiot! Period! Full stop! Drop the mike!

  3. According to Reuter’s news, today, using pot during pregnancy causes brain damage,
    So, how many of the “we religiously believe YOU are guilty” folk
    use or had parents who used pot?

    • That’s not true. I used pot when my first wife was pregnant… or was it my second wife? Wait, did I even have a second wife? Maybe it was before I was married……what was the question?

  4. Before Trump the polls put climate change last in order of importance. It’s the same nonsense trotted out again and again and no one is interested.

      • You are referring to one of MSNBC’s propagandist’s (I forget his name) statement the other day that covering the subject of Climate Change was a ratings killer, I’m presuming.

        Things aren’t looking good for the climate alarmists when the leftwing cable channels won’t even cover the subject.

        How sweet it is! 🙂

  5. It’s too bad these “scientists” don’t know the difference between an historical event and a computer model. Obviously, their grasp of reality is quite tenuous.

  6. …I reserve the word “deniers” for people that are explicitly associated with advocacy groups that are politicizing this issue…I reserve the word “deniers” for people that explicitly reject the history of Jewish extermination in wartime Germany. When I see anyone legitimize the term “denier” in the context of this debate, an alarm bell goes off – “this is not a serious person”. To do so is to commit an unforgivable devaluation of the historical relevance of the word “denier. It’s a rhetorical tactic unworthy of anyone who wants their scientific credibility to remain above reproach. When the word “denier” first crawled out of the political slime, I fully expected those in science and media alike to reject it, vocally and without qualification…
    -Judith Curry, Ph.D.
    Professor & Chair, School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences (emerita)
    Georgia Institute of Technology
    Ph.D., Geophysical Sciences, University of Chicago, 1982
    NASA Advisory Council Earth Science Subcommittee
    Fellow, American Meteorological Society
    Fellow, American Association for the Advancement of Science
    Fellow, American Geophysical Union

    ___________________________________________

    …I thought about putting a photo of the Holocaust from a concentration camp next to a few pages of mathematical equations – to make a point. But that would be truly awful. That would trivialize the memory of the terrible suffering of millions of people under one of the most evil regimes the world has seen. And that, in fact, is my point. I can’t find words to describe how I feel about the apologists for the Nazi regime, and those who deny that the holocaust took place. The evidence for the genocide is overwhelming and everyone can understand it. On the other hand, those who ascribe the word ‘denier’ to people not in agreement with consensus climate science are trivializing the suffering and deaths of millions of people. Everyone knows what this word means. It means people who are apologists for those evil jackbooted thugs who carried the swastika and cheered as they sent six million people to their execution…If you have no soul and no empathy for the suffering of millions under the Third Reich, keep calling people who don’t accept consensus climate science ‘deniers’. Otherwise, just stop.
    -The Science of Doom

    • I first saw the use of “denier’ on an overhead slide during a presentation given by a
      nobel laureate at Melbourne University ( a microbiologist professor who worked in health). The slide contained references to vaccination, smoking, the holocaust and ‘climate change’ (or was it ‘global warming’ ? – it was a while ago) and then the ‘D’ word. It was the most blatant bit of Nazi style propaganda and methinks Dr Goebbels would have been mightily impressed.

      Anyway the target of this filth was a fellow professor at the university in question, the distinguished geologist Ian Plimer and who sat behind the speaker like a puppet master? David Karoly professor of ‘climate science’ at said university.

      All was revealed as to the true lack of character of the pair of gutless swine.

    • When the word “denier” first crawled out of the political slime, I fully expected those in science and media alike to reject it, vocally and without qualification…

      One of the worst elements of the abuse of science that is consensus climatology, and even worse the wholesale destruction of scholarship at Western Universities, is the way that the scientific societies and the academic administrators have just rolled right over.

      They are either themselves likewise benighted or, perhaps more likely, moral cowards. They have surrendered everything of value to the mob.

    • It does not diminish the suffering of the European Jews to mention a historical figure – Chinggis khan. He slaughtered his way from Mongolia to Hungary because he heard they had the best grazing in the world. He would ask the head of a City state to hand over his wives to him and accept his rule. If he did not, he would attack and eliminate any of the population taller than a cart wheel. In three days he had a million people killed in one city. Later, he killed at least twenty million Chinese farmers because he felt farming was a waste of good grazing land.

      There is competition, is what I am saying. Stalin is another, killing how many? 15m? He slaughtered one third of the men in Mongolia in one go. And Mao? Does anyone know? Each of these mass killers is unique. Not so the people they killed. Stalin killed all the Buddhist monks in Mongolia – that is targeted religious genocide. Mao killed anyone thought to be thinking wrong thoughts. Pol Pot killed anyone with education. Each maniac has his proclivities.

      Let’s say, never again, for all of them.

      • Stalin is estimated to have killed 30-42 million of his own (unarmed) citizens. Mao between 46 million and 56 million.
        In all, national socialist communist governments have killed some 110-115 million this century. Add another 62 million US taxpayers killed by the socialist abortion policies, perhaps another 60-80 million worldwide, to that total.

          • It’s like forgetting what year or decade it is when writing a check. Not that anybody does that much any more.

            Unless I make it to over 100, I’ll have lived most of my life in the 20th century. I’m a little disappointed in the 21st so far. OK, we have camera-phone-hand-held computers, verging on Dick Tracy-style two-way wrist TVs, but where are the flying cars we were promised?

        • Stalin and Mao were Communist, not National Socialist. There’s a huge difference.

          National socialism is essentially ethnic. National socialist governments revere their traditions, culture, and people. On almost all issues, they are conservative traditionalists.

          Communism is essentially ANTI-ethnic. All flavors of Marxism are utterly opposed to ethnic nationalism or populism. They obliterate traditional values, religion, art, and culture because they fear anything that transcends the power of government.

  7. Cam this over-politicised issue possibly be taken to a place that is stranger than where this article takes it?

    • I still don’t see the merit in using the word “libtard”. It is completely awkward and isn’t clever. Additionally, it doesn’t paint us well when stooping to those levels.

      How about “kooky as any US far-left media sources”. Additionally, are they even left anymore? I think they are so totalitarian they are off the chart.

      let us just call them what they really are: “totalitarian statists”. I think that is the most appropriate term. They want all the control and power to exert over others, and their preferred method is state mandate, which is state sanctioned violence against non-complying members of society.

      Totalists. There ya go. Totalist media sources.

        • Scum is better, progressive scum, Dont waste your time telling me i should be ”nice”.

          Their scum.

      • yes, calling anyone a retard because you do not agree with their politics is pretty pathetic and levels no valid point against them. It simply diminished any other points you may make.

        It’s just juvenile name-calling. Coming from an adult that makes you look unintelligent or even retarded.

  8. “Still, over time it is likely that traditional denialists will be increasingly influenced by the emerging post-denialist milieu. After all, what oil industry-funded wonk labouring to put together a policy paper suggesting that polar bear populations aren’t declining hasn’t fantasised of resorting to gleeful, Trumpian assertions?”
    I’m having real problems in trying to make sense of this statement.
    Firstly, what is a post denialist milieu? Is it the social environment after denying outlandish assertions? Or, the social environment that results from reality that none of the catastrophic claims by alarmists have occurred?
    Is a “Trumpian Assertion”: “You guys are morons, none of this is happening, and should just STFU?”

    • So according the the acolytes, taking note of reality is merely another form of denialism.
      Polar Bear populations aren’t declining.

      • Polar bear populations have declined by +5000 in this century. It just matters how you frame the statement.

        • But isn’t that based on two reports that loosely based their estimates on two completely different sampling methodologies, resulting in numbers from each report of +/- 5,000? So that saying polar bear populations had increased could still be correct within the margin of error? We’ll have to ask Dr Crockford, at least we can trust her to give a straight answer.

    • Rocketscientist I don’t think Kahn-Harris has any more of idea what ‘post denialist milieu’ means than you or I do. Otherwise he would have explained himself. It sounds erudite but is totally empty of meaning. With all this gibberish flying around in academia and the press, I am hoping their is another Alan Sokal out there.

    • “After all, what oil industry-funded wonk labouring to put together a policy paper suggesting that polar bear populations aren’t declining hasn’t fantasised of resorting to gleeful, Trumpian assertions?”

      Is he referrring to our resident polar bear expert? She doesn’t take any oil money, but she does say polar bear population are not declining.

  9. “… As you know, I’m not political. If anything, I would like to see climate change happen, so the science could be proved right, regardless of the consequences. This isn’t being political, it is being selfish …”

    And there lies the Socialists Lefts problem… They think ” The end justifies the means”… but the free people of the world do not agree !!

  10. Amazing that the Guardian could go there, since their hero Jeremy Corbyn is the most vicious Jew hater in British politics today.

    • The Guardian is the mouth-piece of the PARLIAMENTARY Labour Party ( ie the MPs ) not THE Labour Party ( ie the voting members ).

      the PLP hates Corbym who was elected by the grass-roots and have been trying mount a coup against him since he got elected leader.

      Click on the author’s name at the top the guardian article and look at the tail of “anti-semite” and anti-Corbyte articles he has got printed.

    • I was about to point out that only those who are a danger to themselves or others should be locked up.
      Then I remembered the left’s long history of eliminating those who disagree with them.

      • and that is the frustrating part about all this. The only viable option is to ignore them, and if someone actually listens and believes them, at least attempt to use logic and reason to illustrate why they are not credible. If those people won’t listen…let them suffer the consequences of their own ignorance.

        • Unfortunately the consequences of their ignorance is rarely constrained to themselves alone. In the past the victims of such ignorance were burned for witchcraft.

        • when a person confronts you with an impenetrable wall of stupid, it is a declaration that reason can never prevail. understand it is not innocent nor accidental.
          it is a declaration of war on your mind- your primary means of survival.
          when reason fails, there is only force remaining.
          so cut to the chase and just feed them their teeth. it ends up worse if you don’t stop it there. but that’s ok, too. darwin does no wrong ever.

          • “when a person confronts you with an impenetrable wall of stupid … cut to the chase and just feed them their teeth

            I often feel that your own poorly-punctuated comments present a “wall of stupid,” gnomish.
            Are you sure you want to preach that message of intolerance and violence?

          • f is for feelz and another word for something not in my inventory to supply you with any.
            your metaphysics is also poor if you equate speech with violence.
            SMACK- did that hurt? awwww. boo frikn hoo.
            news flash! words can’t hurt you. consult kindergarten teacher for details.

            bring some more phobias trigglypuff.
            i’ll show you how toothless your pc whining is.

          • gnomish, writing like a poorly educated guttersnipe grammar school boy just makes your posts all the more laughable.

          • oh, schwa… another brick.
            bilabial fricative, guttural monophthong, and a plosive consonant!
            (confess- aren’t you just aching to get your hands on a big dic-
            tionary about now?)
            ollie had stanley
            bud had lou
            ricky had tommy
            and i gots you.

          • What is Islam but a message of male chauvinism, intolerance and violence? A crime against humanity perpetrated by a fictionalizing fraudster who passed off a pack of lies, a Cliff Notes version of Syriac Christian scripture purloined in the Levant, by the gold-digging husband of a rich widow who later hypocritically married three times the number of women and girls allowed mere adherents, to include nine and 11 year olds. Mu was considered disgusting even in the prev’s own time.

          • Wasn’t the Jewish flood story purloined from Gilgamesh?
            I guess that’s ok given your maintenance and promotion of double standards….

            Israel women trafficking soars
            Between 3,000 and 5,000 women have been smuggled into Israel in the past four years to work as prostitutes, according to a parliamentary inquiry.
            The report described how the women are sold at public auctions for as much as $10,000 and forced to work up to 18 hours a day.
            http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4380067.stm

            What is Judaism but a message of male chauvinism, intolerance and violence?
            What is Christianity but a message of male chauvinism, intolerance and violence?
            http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/women/long.html

          • Much of the Old Testament comes from Mesopotamian and Egyptian sources.

            What double standard? I’m not an apologist for Israel. Its interests have often conflicted with America’s. Its right to exist IMO isn’t biblical, but by conquest, same as practically every other country on the planet.

            Who has killed more Arabs and Muslims, the Assad family or Israel? Saddam or Israel? Not even close.

          • the world needs moar mohammedan concern trolls, right?
            lame game, abu.
            the world’s great slavers don’t get to cry about slavery

        • “let them suffer the consequences of their own ignorance.”

          Unfortunately it’s not just themselves that would suffer as they wish to impose the consequences of their ignorance on the rest of society.

  11. The US is the only Western nation that does not use acelluar pertussis vaccine. High rates of autism? When things go wrong the doctor just hands the child back to you and says, “your problem”. Is the cure worse than the disease? Yeah, I had my kids vaccinated. I think they got the whooping cough from the vaccine. ” It’s just their sinuses”, All 14 American doctors said. The Philippine doctor said, ” why didn’t you take them to the doctor, these children have whooping cough” . I had to find a non American doctor overseas to treat them. I was fortunate that I had the resources to do so. Many don’t have those options available to them.
    Fix the system and you won’t have reluctance to get vaccines. Remember the swine flu in the 1970’s ? That vaccine killed people. Thereafter, people were sicker from the annual flu vaccine than the actual flu. And people don’t want to have their children vaccinated? I wonder why?

    There is the illusion of top rated medical care and the reality.

    There is the illusion of ‘climate change’ via co2 and the reality.

    The reality is that co2 follows temperature. Whatever caused the Current Warming Period ( Current Warming Anomaly) can also make it colder. We know very little about the climate. Otherwise, I’d make a model and it would be accurate. Making catastrophic claims then having none of them occur isn’t science.
    When the Arctic sea either doesn’t melt or expands AGW people will move on to some other ‘ this is being caused by global warming ‘ event. I suspect the drought in Europe or they will relabel the cold that killed a lot of food production this year is a result of global warming.
    I’m not in denial, I’m saying that AGW is flat out wrong. Some warming yes, MAN MADE .. NO.
    Half wits pretending to be scientists and dim wits repeating it as fact. That’s what the current mantra is on ‘climate change’.

    • 1986 Vaccine Injury Act. Start your research there. Vaccines are another hoax, from top to bottom.

      here come the downvotes!

      • m.naturalpharmainternational.com/1/vaccine_theory_proven_wrong_study_by_nih_7227814.html

        just one random source. Jon Rappaport also has discussed titers in depth. As has Dr. John Bergman, amongst a litany of other professionals, many of whom left the industry, Such as Dr. Sheryl Tenpenny. Of course though, the same tactics of “denier” and personal attacks are levied by the same people who point out such tactics of the left regarding climate.
        CO2 as the foundation of CAGW
        antibodies as the foundation of vaccination.
        Where are the studies measuring long term health between vaccinated and non-vaccinated?
        Hmm. interesting.

        just raw emotional immaturity of paradigm protecting religiousity when it comes to people who buy into the safety and efficacy of vaccines. No different from the typical warmists, who haven’t spent a fraction of time investigating as those on here. The same applies to most of you who defend vaccination. So much hypocrisy it is troubling.

        • Ummm …. no down vote, but being as vaccines are my neck of the woods …. I’d have to say yes and no. Some have been very effective (small pox, polio), others … not so much. I personally think one of the problems is the schedule. I never agreed with presenting a developing immune system with such a large challenge all at once at such a young age. If autism is connected, it is most likely an auto immune response resulting from overstimulating an immature immune system. It’s all the result of using incomplete info to initiate an action. …. kinda like the drive to demonize CO2 to combat so called global warming (which is not global at all).

          [The mods thank Dr. Deanster for his response, and with it, note that since vaccines and autism are way off topic, this discussion is now ended. Thank you for your cooperation. -mod]

        • Bare one thing in mind Dr. Deanster…
          If and when (far more likely when) the diseases that vaccinations have all but ended start making their rounds again (they ALL still exist in Lab Environs and “Getting Out” is still a probability), it will be the Anti-Vaxer’s children that will be most at risk not those whose parents had the foresight to get them vaccinated.

          • S-T,

            Which vaccines do you imagine cause problems, such as the MS and autism so often cited by opponents without any evidence?

            Among the many which are useful, I’d start with smallpox, which has been eradicated in the wild thanks to vaccination. Pasteur’s 1885 rabies vaccine was improved in 1908. It’s still useful.

            We are similarly on the verge of eradicating polio, again thanks to vaccines. Measles and tetanus have been restricted to those areas in which vaccination hasn’t been regular.

            The effectiveness of flu, HPV and chicken pox vaccines has been intensively studied and verified.

            Diphtheria and whooping cough were deadly scourges well into the 20th century even in the developed world, until defeated by vaccination. Because of immigration and misguided parents, pertussis is making a comeback in the US.

            Thanks to the TB vaccine, TB was practically eradicated in the developed world, too, but now it’s also returning. Still, the vaccine is mostly used only in the less developed world. I had to get it before going to Afghanistan, however.

            Vaccines exist today for over two dozen preventable infections.

          • Polio vaccine is causing a polio syndrome in India.

            The Hep B vaccine caused MS to go from 30000 to 80000 in France, while the definition of MS was changed to require confirmation by RMI (thus decreasing the measure).

            The HPV vaccine is known to cause increased cancer risk for those with HPV and paralysis.

            There is no evidence what os ever that the flu vaccine does any good, ever. It’s the most inane vaccine, ever.

          • I was born in ’49, in Europe, and thus was vaccinated against a very small number of diseases. I survived them all, plus some I had not been vaccinated against, pity for my friends who had not had the same protection, and who are now dead.

          • Smallpox …
            Polio …
            Mumps (you don’t want that illness after puberty) …
            Rabies (even a rabid Chihuahua can ruin your whole day)…
            A far smaller list would be
            Which vaccines are unuseful?

          • More adolescents and adults are now having to be vaccinated because anti-vaxers poisoned their mom’s minds against these essential medical wonder drugs.

            Childhood diseases such as measles, mumps and chicken pox are indeed deadly to adults. In the Civil War, it was the strapping farm boys who died in camp because they had grown up isolated. The pasty-faced, puny city boys survived because they had been exposed as infants or young kids to these potential killers.

            The chicken pox virus of course can also painfully reemerge in adulthood as shingles.

          • Who is at risk of polio in the civilized world? There is no polio here. So the benefit is nil.

            Are you vaccinated against smallpox?

            If you don’t want a disease after puberty, why do you want a temporary immunity that guarantees you are prevented from getting a better immunity before puberty?

          • S-T,

            The simple fact escapes you that polio is almost eradicated in the developed world precisely because of vaccines. That smallpox was eradicated in the wild is likewise thanks to vaccination.

            Apparently you don’t understand immunity. We need vaccines against childhood diseases not just to keep the kids from catching and dying of them, but so that adults won’t get the diseases either. They are often more deadly to adults than kids.

          • “The simple fact escapes you that polio is almost eradicated in the developed world precisely because of vaccines”

            Another fact you just made up.

            You don’t know anything about infectious diseases.

            How do you explain the fact that “polio” (whatever “polio” was at the time, the definition wasn’t changed at the time AFAIK) went down after WWI in the US?

            “They are often more deadly to adults than kids”

            This is what I was explaining, duh.

          • All vaccines are useful. Flu vaccines vary in effectiveness from year to based on how well the scientists guessed which strains would be dominate a year in advance.

          • Some more useful vaccines:

            https://health.clevelandclinic.org/vaccines-that-save-lives-around-the-world-infographic/

            Some 732,000 US kids’ lives saved in 1994-2014:

            https://www.livescience.com/45111-national-vaccination-effects.html

            Billions of lives saved since Jenner’s time (1796, although inoculation began long before then), and the terrible shame of so many not saved:

            https://www.livescience.com/45111-national-vaccination-effects.html

            The hide of Blossom, the cow from which Jenner’s cowpox vaccine (hence the name!) was ultimately derived, still hangs in the library of St. George’s University of London, Tooting:

            https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cipojh2XIAAvEwz.jpg

          • Please provide some evidence that some vaccine causes MS.

            You won’t because you can’t. No such evidence exists.

            You’ve bought into a dangerous lie.

            Above I link to some of the studies finding no correlation between vaccines and MS.

          • Pro vax propaganda is more inane than warmist propaganda. If you are not brain dead, you can’t fall or it.

          • Do you really imagine that virtually the entire medical and scientific community in the world, who have seen and know the inestimable value of vaccines, is brain dead?

            I’m afraid that the dangerous brain affliction is all yours.

          • Any “denier” is punished, excluded, etc.

            Why can’t you accept the right to carry healthcare like the right to carry guns?

          • I buy my own guns and pay for my own healthcare. I’m now on Medicare, but I paid for that over the decades, too.

        • I’m old enough to remember when summer was kinda horrible because of the looming fear of polio. I was in third grade with the Salk vaccine came out and all the kids were lined up in school to get the shots. It is hard for people of my generation to have a negative view of vaccines.

  12. I think Keith Harris should start a world tour, fly around…get the message out there, preach about this topic, show folks how to go without fossil fuels. What a leftist hypocrite he is, because it is he who is in denial of all his energy use.

  13. One constant I’ve experienced with leftists is their utterly unshakable conviction that they are on the side of the angels.
    From there it’s a small step to the assumption that anyone who disagrees with you is evil.

    Then, since leftists are not able to handle much in the way of complexity, it’s another small step to assume that if are evil in one aspect (denying that CO2 is going to kill us), then you must be evil in all aspects.

    The next step is usually the conclusion that those who are evil must be killed.

    • That’s called ‘rationalization’.

      Although, I would argue that there is an intermediate step in dealing with ‘evil’, where they can be satisfied with mere imprisonment.

    • ‘On the right side of history’ is the way they usually phrase it. Which justifies anything, because History.

      And which is why, when they realize that history is passing them by, they freak the heck out.

  14. “…reject the truth…” What truth are you talking about?

    I notice it isn’t anything specific or testable. Therefore by definition it is not science. So what truth are you talking about? Mr. Harris is supposedly a sociologist and therefore not a scientist by any definition I would likely recognize, still would it be too much trouble for him to define how he arrives at “truth”?

    It is clear from his article he understands neither the issue of climate change nor the horror of the holocaust. he and the Guardian should just be embarrassed.

  15. Phil and his disciples need to figure out the difference between computer model output from forecasts and reality. Sadly, I see no hope for that in my lifetime.

  16. Ahh, now I understand. From HIS own biography: http://www.kahn-harris.org/biography/
    Since receiving my PhD in sociology in 2001, I have sought to further my passion for research …. I have taught at …., specialising in the teaching of research methods …. As a freelance researcher, I have published accessible research-based reports. As a writer, my ….. A burning curiosity about the social world has led me to expand my areas of expertise: from his (strange, he goes into and out of third-person) work on global extreme metal scenes (the topic of his PhD), to … my guiding thread is a desire to know more. I am at my most fulfilled when immersing myself in an archive, interviewing an informant or observing a community gathering and I seeks out clients and projects that enable him to do this.
    So it all makes sense now. He “sees” people but doesn’t understand human nature. He “sees” the world around him but doesn’t understand the actuality of it – only what his brain “wants” it to be – for/at the lack of that, he would go insane.
    While it might be best to ignore him, it does beg the question: Where is your research, “research specialist” Dr. Keith Kahn-Harris, relating to your G. article? AND if you are such a damn good researcher, why is it so hard for YOU ”to tell” what we are secretly longing for, or are simply indifferent to, or would desperately like, or are overwhelmed by, or want to keep, etc. – – Oh wait, he’s also into heavy “Extreme” metal… and he lives in London… figures… need I say it?

  17. When they write like this, it is made clear that it is to attack PEOPLE, not what they say or write.

    This is deliberate ugliness for the singular purpose of destroying any form of a decent debate, then they can drive in their propaganda drivel unopposed to spread their lies. They want you to cower in silence to destroy debate, because they KNOW they would lose the debate, thus shutting you down is their preferred method.

    This is an attack on your free speech rights!

    • it’s worse.
      the common enemy of the tyrant is the ability to reason. obedience requires the submission of rationality to somebody else’s whim.
      unwillingness to obey is an existential threat to the slave master.
      eloi stragglers hold up the lunch line.

  18. CAGW is the largest genocide in history. Millions starve annually because we misallocate money towards a leftist fantasy.

    These were the bad projects. As you might see the bottom of the list was climate change. This offends a lot of people, and that’s probably one of the things where people will say I shouldn’t come back, either. And I’d like to talk about that, because that’s really curious. Why is it it came up? And I’ll actually also try to get back to this because it’s probably one of the things that we’ll disagree with on the list that you wrote down.

    The reason why they came up with saying that Kyoto — or doing something more than Kyoto — is a bad deal is simply because it’s very inefficient. It’s not saying that global warming is not happening. It’s not saying that it’s not a big problem. But it’s saying that what we can do about it is very little, at a very high cost. What they basically show us, the average of all macroeconomic models, is that Kyoto, if everyone agreed, would cost about 150 billion dollars a year. That’s a substantial amount of money. That’s two to three times the global development aid that we give the Third World every year. Yet it would do very little good. All models show it will postpone warming for about six years in 2100. So the guy in Bangladesh who gets a flood in 2100 can wait until 2106. Which is a little good, but not very much good. So the idea here really is to say, well, we’ve spent a lot of money doing a little good.

    And just to give you a sense of reference, the U.N. actually estimate that for half that amount, for about 75 billion dollars a year, we could solve all major basic problems in the world. We could give clean drinking water, sanitation, basic healthcare and education to every single human being on the planet. So we have to ask ourselves, do we want to spend twice the amount on doing very little good? Or half the amount on doing an amazing amount of good? And that is really why it becomes a bad project. It’s not to say that if we had all the money in the world, we wouldn’t want to do it. But it’s to say, when we don’t, it’s just simply not our first priority.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/bjorn_lomborg_sets_global_priorities/transcript?language=en

    • I don’t know where the U.N. gets the figure “for half that amount, for about 75 billion dollars a year, we could solve all major basic problems in the world. We could give clean drinking water, sanitation, basic healthcare and education to every single human being on the planet.” Citation by the U.N. of these cost estimates needed. I bet it is magnitudes greater than that. Universal healthcare paid for by the government in the U.S. would cost about $2.7 TRILLION dollars (roughly 15% time our GDP of about $18 T). The U.N.’s numbers are laughable. [Not making a value judgement on government paid for health care, just making an estimate.] To educate the 50 million school age children in the U.S. it costs around $500 billion (50 million times an average of about $10,000 per year per student). I’d like to see them try to provide “education to every single human being on the planet” for $75 billion.

      • They are talking about those that have none. The figures are sound, but feel free to argue with a panel of Nobel Laureate economists, and don’t worry about the genocide.

        • “CAGW is the largest genocide in history. Millions starve annually because we misallocate money towards a leftist fantasy.”

          oh, the leftist fantasy of feeding the world at my expense?
          not having any of that. not my fault. not my responsibility.

      • A lot of those people are already in school. The additional cost is to bring the omitted into the net. There are a lot of girls in that category.

  19. Those intolerable ‘Trumpian assertions” have served admirably to unmask the desperate condition of those so thoroughly defiled that they just can’t resist demonstrating what they truly have to offer their neighbors by way of integrity, verity, and grace. Flooding the dark corners with light is a most salutary means to see just what scurries away sputtering!

  20. “After all, what oil industry-funded wonk labouring to put together a policy paper suggesting that polar bear populations aren’t declining hasn’t fantasised of resorting to gleeful, Trumpian assertions?”

    It’s difficult to take seriously the mind-reading from a columnist who is obviously unaware that polar bear populations aren’t actually declining. Still, there’s moral hazard from such unhinged equivalence between climate skepticism and holocaust denial. Aren’t they worried that people noticing that none of the hyped catastrophic threats from AGW are actually happening might conclude that evidence for the holocaust is on similar shaky ground?

    • I would rate this columnist as being 100 times more dangerous than the handful of self proclaimed neo-fascists. This columnist and the lies which he wrote will trigger some percentage of the clueless greens into thinking that they need to act out just like what occurred in Charlottesville. Only one group had a permit to hold a rally in Charlottesville on that day. There would have been zero violence except for the ignorant left/antifa types forcing the issue. There would have been almost no media coverage in Charlottesville, except for the mindless left/antifa types promoting their hate and violent tactics.

  21. It is hard to tell whether global warming denialists are secretly longing for the chaos and pain that global warming will bring,…

    lol. Poor chap. This UK summer, denialist women have celebrating global warming by lying on the ground outside wearing only bikinis. And their male counterparts have been blatantly cooking meat on barbecues. Is there no end in sight to this suffering ? 🙂

    • Yep, when I call my Mum in Leeds on the weekend, she usually starts out with “Ooooh the weather’s been glorious again”. I neglect the opportunity to tell her that she should be self-flagellating for her heresy.

  22. “The heightened scrutiny of far-right movements in the last couple of years has unearthed statements that might once have remained unspoken, or only spoken behind closed doors. In August 2017, for example, one KKK leader told a journalist: “We killed 6 million Jews the last time. Eleven million [immigrants] is nothing.”

    An utterly astonishing statement from a supposed intellectual!

    I’m far right, as I suspect are most on this blog, as is Donald Trump. But I have never condoned strutting around with uniforms and jackboots, dispensing violence and acting in my own interest other than to ensure my family is well provisioned for, and safe in our community.

    What this man see’s as the ‘far right’ is fascism, the left wing antifa also demonstrate it in their distorted attempt to suppress free speech because it offends their worldview.

    Fascism was created by Mussolini, one indoctrinated by his father into socialism. One who joined his socialist party and was kicked out. So he went to the right, and in short order was kicked out of that Italian institution. He created fascism, employed black shirt bully boys to range free and ensure people were forced to install him as Italy’s leader.

    Hitler admired this reprehensible reprobate and fashioned his own ‘National Socialist German Workers’ Party’ in the form of fascism. In other words, please the elite and we can do what we want with all their money, in return, they’ll get preferential treatment.

    Hitler right wing? I’m damn sure no right-winger would have voted for Adolf with a party title like that, so he bribed, threatened and incited influential industrialists to work with him.

    The KKK was a product of the Democratic party. As I understand it, the Republicans were the antidote to slavery, yet somehow, the evil of socialism has been manipulated to implicate right-wing values.

    As I said, I’m as far right as one can get. I believe in a small government largely devoted to defending our shores. That is after all where the concept of a national income tax came from. One penny on the pound for the UK to fight the Napoleonic wars.

    I believe in freedom of expression, low taxes (not no taxes) the responsibility of the individual for their own welfare, profitable enterprise, democratic representation and the rule of law.

    I do not condone violence other than in defence of our shores. So where in all that is my association with ‘The far right’? Or Mao, and Stalin’s murderous regimes; Pol Pot; the self-announced Marxist Mugabe who has destroyed the breadbasket of Africa, Zimbabwe, run in a colonialist fashion by peaceful white farmers in a successful and profitable fashion for the good of the country, rather than the good of Mugabe.

    Cuba, N. Korea and now Venezuela, all eating up their own countries in the pursuit of an insane idealism which has proven so wrong, time and time again.

    Why do we tolerate the filthy cancer of socialism? Humans were born from free trade, our laws evolved from the concept, our cultures were built on it, our communities thrived on it, our cities built by it. Everything around us is the product of free trade and Capitalism.

    socialism does nothing but stifle progress, poison minds and condition the meek to accept handouts instead of encouraging them to achieve for their family.

    And this despicable fool deems to slander hard working people with the brand of ‘The far right’ when he is deluded enough to not even recognise that societies poison emanates from his very soul.

    • HotScot,

      Indeed, fascism, fundamentally being the subordination of individual rights to the needs of the state, is most correctly understood as Left-wing in nature. That there exist bigoted, tribal people “on the right” (and btw, bigotry and tribalism exists in people of all stripes and creeds) is irrelevant, and does not make the Right fascist.

      You might enjoy Jonah Goldberg’s “Liberal Fascism” if you haven’t already read it.

      rip

      • rip

        Indeed, bigotry and tribalism aren’t restricted to the left, but its institutionalisation is unique to the left.

        Witness the labour party in the UK, it’s own angelic and formerly untouchable leader Jeremy Corbyn attending rallies where anti-Semitic views were openly expressed, if not announcing them himself.

        As for reading, the last thing I read was The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon, and I managed the first chapter before giving up. I still have the 8(?) volumes in case I get bored when I retire. But I’d rather go fishing. A little time for me to think.

        🙂

        • spoiler alert:
          – Gibbon correctly identified Christianity as the ultimate cause of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire.
          It was an extremely intolerant cult back then.

          • And yet the Eastern Roman Empire, ie Byzantium, lasted another 1000 years until conquered by the Turks. Even then, most Levantines, ie Syrians and Palestinians, were still Christians.

            In the West, the Dark Ages probably would have been even darker without the Church, which maintained the organizational structure of the empire. Of course, it did also spread the faith by fire and sword into Germany and Lithuania.

          • In the West, the Dark Ages probably would have been even darker without the Church…
            ====

            The Church created the Dark Age.
            http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/winter.html

            “Those few mansions which were once celebrated for the serious cultivation of liberal studies, now are filled with ridiculous amusements of torpid indolence … The libraries, like tombs, are closed forever.”
            -Ammianus Marcellinus, Rome’s last great historian

            …darker without the Church…
            gold coin from King Offa of Mercia, 774, imitating a gold dinar of Abbasid caliph al-Mansur, emblazoned with Arabic script stating:
            “There is no god but Allah. alone, he has no partner”
            http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/offa2.jpg

            …darker without the Church…

            “I was taught by my Arab masters to be led only by reason, whereas you were taught to follow the halter of the captured image of ancient authority.”
            – Adelard of Bath (‘Dodi Ve-Nechdi,’ 1137)

            …darker without the Church…
            Giordano Bruno
            Galileo Galilei
            Witch burning
            Crusades
            Inquisitions
            etc

            Perhaps in Theo-logical circles requiring great leaps of faith, the dark ages were made a little brighter by the presence of the Church.
            But I’ve seen no evidence for that.

          • You’ve seen no evidence because you haven’t looked. It appears that you don’t know when the Dark Ages were, which is the first half of the Middle Ages, ie AD 476 to 1066 or thereabouts, depending upon the region.

            The citation about conditions in the Dark Ages doesn’t blame Christianity. The barbarians who sacked Rome were also Christians, albeit Arian “heretics”. Monks in the British Isles and later elsewhere preserved learning.

            Had you ever actually studied the Dark Ages, you’d know to what extent the Church and its monastic orders provided what stability and succor was then available in Western Europe. Society would have been even more lawless and violent without order imposed by the Church.

            Of course some Islamic coins made their way to Anglo-Saxon England. Trade with the East never shut down completely. The Norse went up the rivers of Russia and the Ukraine to trade with Saracens. Then they went down others to Byzantium.

            Charlemagne exchanged emissaries with Caliph Haroun al-Rashid, who courteously addressed the Holy Roman Emperor as “Frankish dog”. I don’t know if Rashid knew that Charles’ grandfather “The Hammer” saved Europe from the infidel clutches of the caliphate.

            Bruno, GG, the Inquisition and witch burning were long after the Dark Ages. As were the Crusades, although in principle there was nothing wrong with the attempt to liberate Christian lands from Turkish tyranny. In practice, obviously, the liberators could have done a better job. Same goes for the Reconquista of Iberia.

            Much as I admire Gibbon, he is wrong. His anticlerical bias got the better of his historical judgement.

          • Much as I admire Gibbon, he is wrong
            ====
            I see that you expect the audience to accept your faith-based assertions.

            http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/IMAGES/4th-imperial-portrait.jpg
            4th century imperial portraits – gold inlaid within glass, decorated with gems.

            http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/IMAGES/charle-son.jpg
            Charlemagne and son. 10th century copy of 8th century Carolingian manuscript.

            Charlemagne beheaded 5000 “pagans” who refused to join his intolerant anti-scientific Jesus cult. That’s how Christianity got started in the west.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Verden
            Jews also suffered terribly under the yoke of the Christian cult, only finding safety under ISLAM in Andalus

            Isn’t it funny how half the lexicon of western science is in ARABIC?
            Your faith-based, fictionalized version of apologist history could never account for that fact.

          • No faith involved. Just the facts. The faith is all yours.

            I already mentioned that Charlemagne slaughtered the pagan Saxons into submission. But that is not how Christianity got started. That was as a cult among women, slaves and other marginal members of society. Christianity was 350 years old before it became the state religion of the Roman Empire.

            By contrast, Islam was spread entirely by the sword for at least its first 500 years. So you have it back-assward.

            Half the lexicon of science is not in Arabic. The names of some stars are, because viewing is better in the desert. Algebra was transmitted to the West from India via the Islamic world, along with “Arabic” numerals.

            But very few Muslims have contributed to science since the Revolution of 1543, compared to Westerners and East Asians, and very little original before then. Even their preservation of some ancient texts proved unnecessary after the Fall of Constantinople and the exodus of Greek scholars to the West. Copernicus learned Greek from one of the diaspora members.

    • Hotscot

      What happens if we view the Earth as one country, all mankind as citizens, and the borders as encompassing the whole planet? The defense of borders becomes the defense of institutions against the rise of lunatics and those disposed to violence, and civil unrest.

      I don’t see this as a bad option. Why should groups of humans hunker down behind borders and tell the rest of humanity to suck lemons? The fact that it would end war is an attraction and there is no reason to suppose that such a federation could not be an elected one. A few countries enjoy privileged status. On what grounds? Sez who? People want a just society and we will not get it from socialist dogma nor capital accumulation. ‘Parties’ are nothing more than legal factions. We can do without them too.

      When we have a real Conference of Parties, it should be about the elimination of warfare, not the elimination of CO2. I am afraid a couple of billion people will die before that happens. Most leaders aren’t.

      • Crispin in Waterloo

        Sorry mate, but isn’t that just a bit Kumbaya?

        Humankind has evolved from ambition, conflict and tribalism. Dispense with it, live in eternal harmony, and there would be no desire to progress. Therein lies extinction of the human race with no desire to fight for life.

        The end to war is a noble ambition but one completely at odds with human nature. If we all accepted that fact, not that I desire war, instead of overreaching to an idealistic nirvana the liberals all convince us of, the world would probably be a better place.

        Humans fight. We fight with our siblings, our parents, our partners, our children, our friends and anything else that threatens our personal domain. Bears, tigers, little green men, and even our dog when it shits on the kitchen floor.

        Conflict is THE human condition.

      • Capital accumulation is why we have eight billion people, on average the richest ever, instead of a billion people mostly steeped in abject poverty.

  23. Ive commented before that, although genuine sane AGW proponents who truly believe are in large numbers, such a cause which carries with it blame of a group of people and a desire to punish, is a magnet for dangerous types, hateful types of a fragile mental constitution.

    Recall that the Pause created the so-called “Climate Blues”, a career ending epidemic of climate scientists who apparently couldnt face the implications of a pause that lasted as long as the warming they had been concerned about (although they rationalized it differently). But these are the good guys! Honest victims of the game.

    Nor am I referring to the amoral, shameless dishonest, adjusters and manipulators of data who cheat to win. No I mean the blind thoughtless followers with a screw loose. This isnt as ugly yet as its going to get.

  24. “The heightened scrutiny of far-right movements in the last couple of years has unearthed statements that might once have remained unspoken, or only spoken behind closed doors. In August 2017, for example, one KKK leader told a journalist: “We killed 6 million Jews the last time. Eleven million [immigrants] is nothing.”

    An utterly astonishing statement from a supposed intellectual!

    I’m far right, as I suspect are most on this blog, as is Donald Trump. But I have never condoned strutting around with uniforms and jackboots, dispensing violence and acting in my own interest. I do however ensure my family is well provisioned for and safe in our community, an entirely peaceful endeavour unless I’m called on to physically defend my family, my rights and my property. Which on a rare occasion has been necessary.

    What this man see’s as the ‘far right’ is fascism. The left-wing antifa also demonstrate it in their distorted attempt to suppress free speech because anyone other than them exhibiting or exercising their right to freedom of expression offends their worldview.

    Fascism was created by Mussolini, indoctrinated by his father into socialism. One who joined his socialist party and was kicked out. So he went to the right and was kicked out of that as well in very short order. He created fascism, employed black shirt bully boys to range free and ensure people were forced to install him as Italy’s leader.

    Hitler admired this reprehensible reprobate and fashioned his own ‘National Socialist German Workers’ Party’ in the form of fascism. In other words, please the elite and we can do what we want with all their money, in return, they’ll get preferential treatment.

    Hitler right wing? I’m damn sure no right-winger would have voted for Adolf with a party title like his, so he bribed, threatened and incited influential industrialists to work with him.

    The KKK was a product of the Democratic party. As I understand it, the Republicans were the antidote to slavery, yet somehow, the evil of socialism has somehow been manipulated to implicate right-wing values into some sort of distorted representation of peaceful Capitalism.

    As I said, I’m as far right as one can get. I believe in a small government largely devoted to defending our shores. That is after all where the concept of a national income tax came from. One penny on the pound for the UK to fight the Napoleonic wars.

    I believe in freedom of expression, low taxes (not no taxes) the responsibility of the individual for their own welfare, profitable enterprise, democratic representation and the rule of law.

    I do not condone violence other than in defence of our shores. So where in all that is my association with ‘The far right’? Or Mao and Stalin’s murderous regimes; Pol Pot; Mugabe the self-announced Marxist who has destroyed the bread-basket of Africa, Zimbabwe, run in a colonialist fashion by peaceful white farmers in a successful and profitable fashion for the good of the country, rather than the good of Mugabe.

    Cuba, N. Korea and now Venezuela, all eating up their own countries in the pursuit of an insane idealism which has proven so wrong, time and time again.

    Why do we tolerate the filthy cancer of socialism? Humans were borne of free trade, our laws evolved from the concept, our cultures were built on it, our communities thrived on it, our cities built by it, our countryside shaped by it. Everything around us is the product of free trade and Capitalism, socialism has contributed nothing but division.

    socialism (capital ‘s’ deliberately omitted) does nothing but stifle progress, poison minds and condition the meek to accept handouts instead of encouraging them to achieve.

    And this despicable fool deems to slander hard working people with the brand of ‘The far right’ when he is deluded enough to not recognise that societies poison emanates from his very leftist soul.

  25. This is so much BS. First off, I have never heard anyone in western society celebrate the holocaust. Second, the Anti-Vaxers are almost exclusively climate alarmists. These people the author are talking about are not the same people.

      • simple-touriste

        Anti vaccination. As in the MMR scare when people were told the combined vaccination caused complications, for which, from memory, a certain doctor who promoted the concept was vilified by his profession. Not soon enough to stop the rumor propogating and threatening herd immunity.

        • Herd immunity is a myth. The church of vaccines will vilify anyone who dares to disagree.

          • simple-touriste

            Why did you ask if you have all the answers?

            And might I remind you that WUWT isn’t a conspiracy blog, you won’t go unscrutinised for your unscientific rants which, other than your climate change opinions, seem mostly at odds with most here.

            I’m sure there are many conspiracy blogs out there you would feel right at home at.

          • Herd immunity is real.

            And it makes sense that it would be. If a disease needs to spread to become an epidemic placing the infected on a desert island or in quarantine would stop that epidemic. Surrounding them with immunised people is like placing them on a desert island.
            The disease doesn’t spread. The disease doesn’t have many iterations.
            The disease cannot evolve to be worse.

            Here is a scholarly paper providing observations that confirm the common sense.

      • “What the hell is an “anti-vaxer”?”

        From your posting history, it appears all you need to do is look in the mirror to see one.

    • Jeff in Calgary. I agree as it’s been my observation that there is a large overlap between alarmists, anti-Vaxers and anti-GMO. Though there are exceptions, for example this forum’s resident anti-vaxer is also a CAGW skeptic.

  26. I think have been banned by almost all forums, websites, blogs … that aren’t about climate skepticism where I posted more than a few messages. It’s notable that I have been banned for life (which is a temporary measure) several times on a France Television (state controlled TV) forum.

    Who wasn’t banned immediately on that same forum? Someone who regretted Hitler has not “finished the job”. It took the guy a lot more similar messages to be banned.

    But saying “if you [think] Africa is so great and you love Africa, you should go to Africa” gets you banned. That’s the way it goes on the website of a state controlled channel.

  27. This shows what a trashy rag the Guardian is. It’s readers must have the mentality of pre=schoolers.

  28. The systematic murder of millions of Jews as the result of an explicit government policy over several years seems to me to be a pretty clear binary proposition. That being, it either happened or it did not. A related case is the Armenian genocide, in which case we have the systematic murder of millions of Armenian Christians that is denied as a matter of government policy by Turkey. Maybe the “denial” is in fact a dispute about the definition of the word “genocide”. Maybe it is a case of illnumeracy, where the murder of millions is merely twice as heinous than the murder of a thousand. Maybe the use of the word “genocide” is just too judgmental in some people’s minds.

    As for whether or not the climate is changing, the facts are simple: climate always changes. The fact that as recent as 25,000 years ago where the city of Chicago sits was covered by a mile of glacial ice is a good example of that variation. Another example would come from the quaint cliff dwelling communities in the American southwest that are now tourist attractions. About 1,600 years ago those communities thrived, that is until a recently-documented mega-drought changed the climate to be far less amicable to subsistence farming. How can someone deny that Chicago is no longer smothered by a glacier?

    But the advocates of “climate change” always seem to have a broader goal in mind. Not only do they want me to accept the accuracy of their models, 97% of which wildly deviate from the real trends of the real climate as time goes forward, but they also make demands for government policy. And by strange coincidence, almost all of their policies converge far more on socialism than on real remediation of climate problems.

    Look, human life depends upon a healthy biosphere, at the very least for our food. I for one am concerned that wheat and barley can no longer be cropped in Greenland as it was when it was first settled a millennium ago by Vikings. Talk about changing climate.

    • It’s not that simple. The Soviet government enacted a Scorched Earth policy at the beginning of WW2, before Germany even invaded Russia. They moved many millions of people from Western Russia and Poland to prepared factories in the east. When the German military conquered Russian cities, they typically found them only half occupied. The Soviets especially prized Jews for their education, and made extra effort to move all possible Jews to the east. This is well documented. They had two goals, to ensure high factory productivity, and to burden the German forces with millions of starving people.

      After the war at the Nuremburg trials, the Soviets sent general Nitichenko, the man who ran the Stalin show trials, to be their representative. He was given carte blanche to introduce all kinds of unsubstantiated evidence. Clearly he was highly motivated to exonerate and cover for Soviet crimes, especially wartime slave labor and mass movement of civilians.

      This does not contradict the Holocaust, but there a possibility that the USSR was heavily involved in making Jews ‘disappear’. However, until Germany backs off their holocaust laws, historians will not be free to investigate. Perhaps that’s the intent.

  29. Just what is denialism about this?

    Isolating the Impact of CO2 on Atmospheric Temperatures; Conclusion is CO2 has No Measurable Impact
    https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2018/08/01/isolating-the-impact-of-co2-on-atmospheric-temperatures-conclusion-is-co2-has-no-measurable-impact/

    Facts are, the evidence is that CO2 doesn’t cause climate change. Until the alarmists can refute the above-linked post, they are the denialists. Accuse others of what you are guilty of is the motto of the Alarmists.

  30. The only real deniers are those who refuse to accept what the real data and real science is telling them. Climate Alarmists will never be able to refute these facts and analysis. The fact that they don’t even address them proves they are living in willful denial.’

    Isolating the Impact of CO2 on Atmospheric Temperatures; Conclusion is CO2 has No Measurable Impact
    https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2018/08/01/isolating-the-impact-of-co2-on-atmospheric-temperatures-conclusion-is-co2-has-no-measurable-impact/

    Until that analysis can be refuted, the alarmists simply have no case. It is all a big lie. Climate alarmists are simply accusing others of what they are guilty.

  31. Why go no like that when for many of us a simple external enquiry mainly by historians, engineering and statistical specialists to prove the point or disprove global warming with criminal prosecution to follow if it is shown that there was any knowing exaggeration of the effects of CO2 to promote renewable energy.
    Averages cannot be used to prove or disprove climate change and individual studies of each point is really required
    given that the very limited number of points means any individual point could be in or out of a local hot spot depending on weather patterns rather than any indicator of climate changes.
    It does not take a great deal of effort to see this policy hugely benefits rich landowners for the installation of wind “farms” and solar “parks” paid for significantly if not mainly out of the meagre earnings of Starbucks McDonalds and similar workers.
    The hypocrisy of the Guardian is astounding even the extent it bans people who are not global warming bigots from commenting while refusing to remove them from the list so they still benefit from the advertising revenue the numbers give them.

    • What is it about this otherwise most excellent site that makes it so difficult to vote up a contributor? I press hard and soft, up and down whilst up pop cut and paste signs and then finally, when my modest applauding gets through an angry red message ticks me off for voting twice.

    • The Guardian is corrupt morally and intellectually, preaching tolerance and freedom whilst brutally shutting out dissent.

  32. “Whenever a child says “I don’t believe in fairies” there’s a little fairy somewhere that falls right down dead.”
    J. M. Barrie, Peter Pan (1904)

    The author of the piece in the Guardian argues that if you see no proof the Nazis tried to exterminate the Jews you are their murderer. If you do not believe in manmade global warming you promote catastrophe.

    Peter Pan was fun when I was five but it is no basis for public policy. It is fairy dust.

  33. This is really obscene. As a total Sceptic of the B.S of the CAGW politically driven nonsense, I’m delighted to say that I, in no way shape or form, do not accept the very clear and well documented evidence of the atrocities of WW2 relating to the Genocide known as the Holocaust. I am not Jewish, so I can only imagine the offence this article causes those Sceptics who are Jewish. The very people the clown who wrote this, believes he was championing their cause. Can someone be so far up their own behind? Apparently, yes they can. Disgusting. Needs to be publicly shamed for this.

  34. In my own case, the cause for “denial”is the understanding, from five years of intensive study, that the CO2/warming mechanism is scientifically unsupportable, as Knut Angstrom correctly concluded in 1900. It was subsequently revived, from 1938 to 1964, by a British climate hobbyist who claimed, without proof, that CO2/warming “should work.” My own research agrees with the conclusion of Angstrom that no, it shouldn’t. My study did, however, confirm the likelihood of an alternative agent: monatomic chlorine from anthropogenic CFCs catalytically thinning the ozone layer and admitting UV-B to Earth’s surface. This nicely explains both the limitation of actual global warming to the 24-year period 1975 to 1998 and the persistence of elevated temperatures since 1998 (catalytic thinning of ozone). Could all this explain the unconscionable lack of experimental proof of CO2/warming in the peer-reviewed literature?

    Anyone wishing to respond to this should do so using my email (davidlaing(at)aol(dot)com. I don’t monitor this site for replies.

  35. The Guardian is suffering from REALITY DENIALISM. We live in an Ice Age and those jokers want to precipitate the abrupt end to the current Ice Age interglacial. And our Holocene is not exactly the warmest interglacial of the current Ice Age, either. Cold kills! And the last glacial period (90,000 years) left Earth so desiccated that human population could never get above 100,000, according to some estimates. I suspect our technology might help us save a few hundred million, but billions dying from the cold is what The Guardian and their ilk are unwittingly hoping for. That makes the Holocaust look like a minor mishap, with more than 1,000x as many deaths.

    I don’t like alarmism. But we need to be aware of the challenges ahead and act accordingly. Pushing Global Cooling measures in an Ice Age is tantamount to suicide — like dousing your homes with gasoline to “protect” them from the coming brush fire. Reality denial writ large.

Comments are closed.