A blockchain to destroy alarmist fake news, Part 2

Guest essay by Mike Lorrey

NOTE: Mike Lorrey is an advisor to trive.news and is a past contributor and moderator for WUWT.

In Part 1 I talked about how the Trive system works in its adversarial system of on-chain peer review and challenge that is incentivized by bounty rewards.

In the comments to the last piece, there were a number of questions about blockchain in general that can be better answered elsewhere, but suffice it to say, proof of work, delegated proof of stake, and other consensus algorithms that solve the Byzantine Generals Problem electronically have given us a new world where people of any nation can create institutions of trust within blockchain, as smart contracts that execute automatically, fairly the same way for everyone, every time.

That’s not as big a deal to most of us who have lived in nations with fairly stable and vibrant civil societies, where we have grown up trusting our governments, courts, banks, money supply, and even, for the most part, the news media, to be fair and balanced toward all. Most nations do not enjoy such advantages and are in development traps that perpetuate global poverty specifically because of a lack of institutions of trust.

We are seeing how through globalization, the mistrust and corruption of the developing world has been seeping into the developed world along with immigration, trade, etc. We can no longer trust our media. The courts are a mess of bias, police are blatantly abusive of citizens unless they are provably elites, elections are being stolen by voter fraud. Lastly, peer review has become corrupted as well, particularly in climate science, but the amount of scientific fraud in the world has been climbing in most every field at an alarming rate. Fully half of all medical research papers are deemed to be fake, as one example.

In a world where individuals do not trust each other, all can trust a smart contract on a blockchain. All data stored on the blockchain can be audited for validity, and cannot be changed.

With Trive, the system of weeding out fake news works pretty well. For the philosophical, it is obvious we cannot determine the actual capital T TRUTH since humans are all fallible and science is a process of gradually finding some increasing degree of truth that is sufficient for our present understanding. However we can weed out falsehood.

I’ve demonstrated how this process works, but the real questions are: who pays for all this, and why should the world care what happens on a blockchain?

While not implemented yet, the Trive system when fully realized will use a cryptocurrency called the Trive token as a form of money to incentivize the system. Anyone will be able to buy Trive Tokens on a number of crypto exchanges from other users or directly from Trive.news. These tokens will sit in your Trive wallet on the plugin, for you to submit as a bounty on any story you want to be trived.

Question: Why can’t mister fat wallet just buy a ton of tokens and pay a bunch of people to pollute the system with crap?

This questions addresses what we call a Sybyl Attack, where a group of individuals, or bot accounts, are used to overpopulate a system to bias the course of its blockchain. This is a valid concern when a blockchain is young and has few users. However once it has grown sufficiently, the public as a whole always exceeds the resources of any individual Sybyl attacker. One reason I’m publishing these stories on WUWT is to get the word out to the skeptical public so that YOU can be part of the solution.

But Trive is also building in some heuristics to spot Sybyl attackers: people using the same IP address or MAC address, to submit stories, for instance. People using the same wallet addresses, or picking up the stories submitted by the same person regularly. There are many heuristics for discovering this sort of fraud and weeding it out of the system, blocking the participation of proven Sybyl attackers.

But this problem isn’t new in climate science. The promiscuity issues we saw in the Wegman Report years ago demonstrate that climate science was already captured by a sybyl attack in the scientific press, thus this is already a problem in climate science and how its peer review became pal review.  We cannot possibly do any worse than has already happened, by enlisting the public to participate, and we can in fact recapture climate science from the sybyl attackers on the Hockey Team and their allies through the use of Trive.

However once you accept that the fact finding process is provably fair, the question is: So what? How does this impact fake news?

Once stories have been trived, and fake news articles rated as fake news, the plugin then has an effect on what you see on news sites. Looking at Huffpuff, or Slate, or NYT, or New Scientist with a browser using the plugin, stories that have been Trived to be fake have their text faded out. You cannot read those stories, or its very difficult to read the faded text. Stories that have survived triving and are not fake remain fully endarkened text as their formatting requires and even have a rating of veracity. Stories that have not been Trived will be indicated, and you can see the size of bounties on each untrived story. So you will see the more or less TRUE stories, and the FAKE stories will be faded out, causing you to be more inclined to read the stories that you can actually READ.

This means that readers will be more likely to read true stories than fake stories, and as a result, to see advertising on true stories and not on fake stories.

Once this happens, advertisers will start demanding of publishers that they should only pay for ads that appear on true stories, thus demonetizing fake news, and training the media through this carrot and stick approach, to focus on the truth.

News organizations that are competitive with each other for readership will submit each others stories to be trived, hoping that their competitors lose readers as a result, and advertising dollars. Best of all, we know that Chrome uses browser behavior to inform the Google search engine how to present search rankings, so by fading out fake news, people will only browse to real news, and googles search rankings will be corrected as a result.

Individuals worldwide seeking to earn money can participate in Trive at researcher, challenger, or jury witness levels. The more participants, the less possible it is for a Sybyl Attack to succeed. The more that participate, the more likely that the truth will win out.

And as individuals earn Trive tokens, they can sell them on crypto exchanges, or cash them out through their trive wallet, into other crypto, or fiat money like dollars. The Trive economy thus comes full circle not just on the researcher side but on the user side, producing a more truthful news media all over, not just with regard to climate science.

 

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Warren Blair

Wow!

Leo Smith

adversarial system of on-chain peer review and challenge that is incentivized by bounty rewards

It is to be understood that to fail to apprehend the utility of professional artisan class cockwomble, going forward, is to place oneself and an adversarial disadvantage.
http://vps.templar.co.uk/Cartoons%20and%20Politics/NoWindTurbines_3.jpg

Margaret

I assume the block works only for each individual viewing. Knowing this could happen, can publications work out a method of preventing it?

Ian H

This looks like a clever technological solution to the wrong problem. A blockchain would help if the problem was people tampering with history or changing data. But that isn’t the real problem. The problem isn’t at the data level. The problem is what interpretations of the data are acceptable to state in public discourse.
Truth cannot be determined by consensus, especially in the presence of political correctness which creates a massive social disincentive to stating incorrect” interpretations. What we have is an entrenched “emperors new clothes” type situation where the consensus is on the side of a falsehood. I can’t see how adding a blockchain will fix this. If anything it will just make it harder for dissenting opinions to be heard.

Leo Smith

i wonder if this innocuous post will go ‘into moderation’ too?

TonyL

Do not use a banned word. Most of us know at least some of the banned words that get you sent to moderation, but nobody knows them all.
Also, posting more than 4 or 5 comments a day sends you to the penalty box, as it seems. (Spam filter??)
Sometimes WordPress just eats your comment, without warning or reason. Sometimes your comment shows up within a few minutes, or a few hours.
Sometimes your comment is just *gone*.
Happens to all of us.

Dan DaSilva

The “profanity status” of the BS word is questionable. Growing up on a dairy farm BS was just the male version of mud. In its more used meaning, a lot of it is right here and it can be amusing.

John Endicott

depends on if it’s spelled out or just the initials. BS, POed, etc are tamer versions of their more profane fully spelled out versions. similar in practice to the use of darn and heck as tamer alternatives to their more profane cousins.

John Endicott

“This looks like a clever technological solution to the wrong problem. A blockchain would help if the problem was people tampering with history or changing data. But that isn’t the real problem. The problem isn’t at the data level. The problem is what interpretations of the data are acceptable to state in public discourse”
Bingo.

NW sage

I agree john. Many of the so called true vs fake news stories are created by misinterpretation of something someone said. It is locked in by media (or anyone) who thereafter insists that the misinterpreted version is what was actually said. The ‘mainstream’ news is famous for NEVER admitting they were wrong – about anything.
My favorite example if this is the OJ Simpson trial verdict. I watched nearly the entire trial live via a TV backhaul feed on what was then COURT TV. When the jury retired to deliberate I remember wondering if there was enough evidence to convict – but the media ‘experts’ NEVER wondered! They KNEW the verdict would be guilty! And they said so – often. When the jury found otherwise they were literally shocked it didn’t turn out the way they had predicted – and they haven’t changed their mind(s) yet.
Fact – OJ is not guilty of murder. Period! Did he kill those two victims – perhaps: but those legally responsible for making the call said “not guilty”
The media hasn’t figured it out yet.
The same attitude continues to exist in the media today re climate change issues.
How DO we get those who are stuck believing they are the only ones who know what is true- when they don’t – to change their minds?

I don’t agree Ian. There is a looming backlash against political correctness, because it de-emphasizes truth in a practical, real-life sense. And people ARE tampering with history and data. People, in general, want the information disseminated to them to be accurate. Blockchain, once up and running, will give people a trustworthy place to assess news, and it’s HIGH TIME.

how can you be so sure it will provide trustworthy news? Would you consider James Corbett of Corbett Report, Richard Grove of TragedyandHope.com, John Taylor Gatto, Evan James Pilato of Media Monarchy, Brett Veinotte of SchoolSucks, or Jordan Peterson accurate and trustworthy? I do, and their research is air tight, significantly thorough, and doesn’t care about politics. ALL of them (save for Peterson because he is pointing out the pitfalls of cultural Marxism/neo-marxist Post modernism). Every single one of those sources are far more reputable than just about any other source currently considered as information delivery systems.
But let’s say the general population can’t shake the cognitive dissonance, then they will deem such researchers as “conspiritards” or “ring-wing loonies” and thus not actually be able to digest the information. Their built in bias and conditioning is too strong, so if the information displays the Clinton’s in a very sour light (because it is reality), most Democrats will immediately shut down and not consider the veracity of the information, especially if it is concerning their new messiah, the Big O. The same goes with most Republicans who love Reagan/Bush/Trump, etc. Think of how this site is received by the general public who eats up the wikipedia logical fallacy of ad hominem and “poisoning the well”. They aren’t well versed in the Trivium so they lack the facility for critical thought.
I could be missing something here about this article, and my apologies if so, but it appears this could easily be utilized by the status quo to continue reinforcing the litany of currently false paradigms. It seems to me this would create more “appeal to group” than is assumed by its creator. If I am wrong, please correct me because I genuinely want to trust this type of platform, but history has proven I must be skeptical.

wsbriggs

My only issue is that NationStates are known to create fake news and then use multiple sources to drive the meme. In general, NSs have sufficient resources to swamp individuals, either by making participation in the Trive illegal, or by using actors with bot-fields to so do. Think China, think FancyBear, etc.

John harmsworth

Very good point. I have arrived at a point where I do not believe until and unless my very specific doubts are addressed in a way that is satisfactory to me by someone who does not seem on close examination to have a stake in the verdict. If I don’t have sufficient confirmed facts then my willingness to believe is in direct contrast to how hard it is being sold to me. In a world of pervasive untruths, this system seems to work quite well for me.

jdmcl

It’s worse than that. I can’t see how this system can do anything about the original data except assume that it’s correct.
That might not be true when billions of dollars of UNFCCC Green Climate Funding will come to a certain country if the temperatures are rising but maybe not come if they are stable or falling. That’s a huge incentive for the national meteorological service, under government instruction, to quietly adjust the data upwards by let’s say 0.02 per year (1 degree in 50 years).

John Endicott

and if improperly used by enough people will be enough to ensure that fake news is given a veneer of authenticity. the very opposite of what you intend.

Warren Blair

Mike will you ‘announce’ the release date for Trive tokens on WUWT?

Philosophically, this idea is fraught with contradiction!
That said, imagine a world were the “currency*” of truth or falsity** are no longer within the domain – or the sovereignty – of the individual.
Con-trive is the first word that comes to mind.
Stories are just that, contrivances and for that very reason alone, can make no claim on reality.
This system appears to me, to be an incredibly stupid, dangerous and disastrously reckless proposal!
Forget “Ok Computer” and “Welcome to the machine”, welcome to the dividual***. ;-(
*Value
**Socially or societally.
***As apposed to the in-dividual.

Dan DaSilva

This idea has a left-leaning foundation, where you do not need effort, knowledge or wisdom to obtain the truth. You just need “the consensus” or the government.

Disagree Dan. Are juries in court cases a left-leaning foundation? No. They come to a consensus on what is probably the truth, and what is probably false. The jury is the public, not the government. Government or State cannot be trusted, but random public jurers with no agenda, can be.

Dan DaSilva

hollybirtwistle , the concept of jury certainly has no left-leaning or right-leaning foundation it is one of the greatest achievements of a free society,

conceptually, many ideas are fantastic. However, most concepts involve systems and systems will inevitably corrupt with time. I’m sure there is a law about that decay but it is inevitable.
Juries- corrupted through selection by trial lawyers, this idea of peers, or even the idea that the population has the right to pass judgement over another, when they can’t even take the log out of their own eye.
government- speaks for itself, just look at the body count.

MartinR

To Holly : Yea the OJ Simpson jury comes to mind.

John Endicott

“Are juries in court cases a left-leaning foundation? No”
Indeed not, but there are also not infallible when it comes to the truth. Many a times a jury has come to the factually wrong conclusion either through inherent biases (there have been racist juries in the past) or because one lawyer was better are crafting a narrative than the other one or a judge didn’t allow certain testimony that would have shed a different light on the case, or because a juror had already formed an opinion from news report rather than judging based on evidence presented at trial or a myriad of other reasons.
pack the system with jurors that already believe the narrative you want (regardless how true it is) and you have a wonderful system for pushing fake news onto the masses.

John Endicott

And the point is, it doesn’t matter. Juries are not magical truth seers. They are people and they have biases and they do get things wrong.

Steve Ta

“Anyone will be able to buy Trive Tokens” – but I still don’t see what incentive any individual has to do this.
Surely someone else will do this for me, won’t they?

Bellman

So if I’m reading this right, if I own a Trive and I see an article on a climate website I think is wrong, I can report it, it will be investigated and “jury” agree the post will be blacklisted. Nobody with the plug-in will be able to see the post and the website loses money in advertising. Is that correct?
But by the time all this happens hundreds of people will have seen the incorrect article, it will have been duplicated across many other websites and the misinformation will have been spread by tweets and will be repeated for years to come. Meanwhile the original article will be months old and would already been buried under hundreds of more recent articles. And of course there’s nothing stopping the website from repeating the fake claims in new articles.

John harmsworth

Not that I’m sold on the concept but presumably it would be pretty simple to maintain a registry of articles and Trive rating. If it caught on and became a significant tool of judgement then probably the article would almost need to show its evolving rating to be taken seriously by anyone looking it up.

TonyL

stories that have been Trived to be fake have their text faded out. You cannot read those stories

Censorship, pure and simple.
Blockchain has been proposed to solve all the world’s problems in one way or another. OK, so it is just another techno fad.
But we see behind it, just another urge to rule.
And who pays for it all?

And as individuals earn Trive tokens, they can sell them on crypto exchanges

In other words, nobody.
Add it all up, it is just another vision of a Utopia.
That has worked out *so* well in the past.

TonyL ==> I believe the greying out of news stories deemed FAKE by TRIVE will only appear greyed out to those who are viewing the story in Chrome browser with the TRIVE add-on installed. It is a tool elected to be used by the reader — the end-user.
It is no more CENSORSHIP that asking any number of “safe web surfing” apps to block or warn about dangerous sites that attempt to infect one’s computer with malware.

Bellman

Not censorship, just group think.
Those with a particular set of biasis will subscribe to ensure they see nothing that will upset their bias. Those with different biasis can set up their own system to block out anything that might trigger them.
In theory I’m all for filtering out things that are objectivly false, but that’s not much of a help if people who belive the fake stuff will be the ones with no filter.

Bellman ==> I think that the idea is that a very diverse group will eventually move towards information that is verifiable as correct. Don’t know if it will work for subjects where the broader public has been bamboozled already — such as with climate change.

Bellman

Kip Hansen,
“I think that the idea is that a very diverse group will eventually move towards information that is verifiable as correct.”
Maybe that’s the intention, but I’m a little skeptical when the headline says its purpose is to “destroy alarmist fake news”.
The paper does talk about the importance of “Diversity of opinion”, but I’m not sure how easy it will be to have a representative diversity when everyone has to literally buy into the system in the first place.
That said I don’t think the idea is necessarily bad. The idea of some sort of crowd sourced fact checking could work, but I find the way it is being implemented worrying. For a start the constant emphasis on “the Truth”, and the idea that this will be used to attack news companies and persuade them to only publish stuff which is approved by the “Human Swarmed crowd wisdom”. Even if this is motivated by the highest ideals, I suspect it will be difficult to stop it becoming a political tool.

Bellman ==> Maybe the case — but I have put up a trial on TRIVE uding my recent essay here on Vectorborne diseases as a test case (actually, the complaint in my essay).
Let’s see what happens.

Bellman

Kip Hansen,
“but I have put up a trial on TRIVE uding my recent essay here on Vectorborne diseases as a test case”
As a mater of interest, which article areyou putng on trial, the one from NYT or Science?
In either case I’m not sure how this would refute the group think problem. You disagree with an article and get it hidden. The real test wouldbeif articlesyou agree with are hidden when they contain factual inacuraces.

Everitt Mickey

hey mike. this is evmick.
I’ve been sharing on steemit.com.
https://steemit.com/discussion/@everittdmickey/trive-a-blockchain-to-destroy-alarmist-fake-news
I’m in.
When’s the ICO?

Nylo

I see a big problem with this. Let’s say that some media publishes some fake news. And someone sends it to Trive and it is detected as fake or containing falsehoods. What is “trived” is a static version of the text of such media. As soon as the media changes a sentence, or a comma, the plugin will no longer detect it as the same that was trived and will not be able to (and shouldn’t) obscure the text, even if still the same falsehood is in the text, just written differently. Which means that it is very easy for some media that regularly publishes fake news to fool Trive’s plugin and pretend to be trustworthy.

ozspeaksup

stuffed if i get blockchain or the whole imaginary money thing
ive tried
and anything that can be lost in a microblink stored in a pc etc that can go awol in a cme or powersurge..nah
normal banks manage enough scams n thefts the oldfashioned way as it is.
Mz luddite i may be;-) but using the blockchai thingy to screen seems another way that people will also avoid having to do their own research n thinking etc
mind you seeing gurgles search sneakiness interrupted would be nice
duckduckgo works fine, i remove chrome and the g word and most of the other engines as a matter of course.

John Dowser

Nice initiative. Although the author is seriously misinformed on how Google ranks its results. There is no “active interference in search rankings” because some board member joined. That claim equals shoving thousands of Google engineers down the drain and then add make vacuous claims. Perhaps not a bad thing to have such articles on page #293 after all 😉
No but seriously, Google ranks indeed by automated “pal review” in the sense that publications are weighed much like Wikipedia does manually, simply on notability. For example if a site with some scientific topic is being linked from noted science blogs, forums, government sites and academic places, it will be understood as very likely to contain relevant material to anyone searching for more information.
While this indeed *implies* some evaluation of the relevance of the status of science blogs or government and academic sites, to reverse such algorithm generally would seriously downgrade search results. It’s just on the topics where one finds himself in disagreement with the majority of notable online publications where the problem of the algorithm reveals itself.
The Thrive system however seem to add nothing fundamentally different from the broken peer review system, Wikipedia and other systems dependent on 3rd party opinions or just loads of money. At best we get a worse and slower Google variant which will be bogged down in the very same conflicts and accusations.
The only good “system” is cultivation of healthy, critical human minds. A lot of hard work and some suffering goes into those!

dodgy geezer

….Question: Why can’t mister fat wallet just buy a ton of tokens and pay a bunch of people to pollute the system with crap?
This questions addresses what we call a Sybyl Attack, where a group of individuals, or bot accounts, are used to overpopulate a system to bias the course of its blockchain. This is a valid concern when a blockchain is young and has few users. However once it has grown sufficiently, the public as a whole always exceeds the resources of any individual Sybyl attacker. One reason I’m publishing these stories on WUWT is to get the word out to the skeptical public so that YOU can be part of the solution….

How do you handle the situation where activists have convinced a large part of the population that their fake news is true?
For instance – the Brent Spar episode. There, Shell had produced the best environmental answer to a disposal problem, and were prevented from doing this by Greenpeace, who lied about the levels of oil in the container. In a word, fake news. And yet the majority of UK citizens believed Greenpeace, and Shell had to conduct a more environmentaly damaging and more expensive disposal solution.
Your answer would have confirmed Greenpeace fake news as real.

Dodgy geezer, You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people. Activists cannot dupe people forever. People are becoming increasingly aware that the “news” disseminated is fake or falsified. Something has to be done to ensure ‘news’ is accurate, and hopefully blockchain technology like Trive can provide a mechanism. It will take time, but it will catch on and take hold.

Dodgy Geezer

If activists eventually failed to keep duping people then there would be none of them left by now.
But we have a society FULL of them, and people being duped continually. And that has been true throughout recorded history. I’m afraid you are going up against human nature…

Smart Rock

My subjective opinion is more “true” than your subjective opinion. To me

Smart Rock, thats why the Jury will decide, based on evidence, what is true and what is false, not you or me alone.

Wayne Townsend

No, the jury will decide based on their preconceived notions of what is evidence and what is not. They will put on their individually biased glasses and strain out that which does not conform to their personal world view. There are very few people who can look at evidence that contradicts their personal position and embrace it.

John Endicott

and who decides on what these questions are and who decided what answers are “good” and what answers are “bad”?

Intrinsic value is attached to the work required. The intrinsic value is imbued to the blockchain by the purchasers of the Trive Tokens. The work is done to receive the value. I think this will work. At least it has all the elements necessary. The value has to come from somewhere – ‘if’ they will buy Tokens. Bitcoins value is derived from its scarcity. Trive Tokens are different, correct?

Thanks mikelorrey. Thanks for helping develop this new technology and for explaining it, although I must admit I don’t understand the tech-side yet, but I DO understand the practical side of the mechanism. From your answers to skeptical comments it is apparent you have examined this technology in depth; but know one can know for sure how it will perform until it is tried. New Technology has solved a huge number of problems for Humanity; where would we be without it?:)))) This is exciting and so worthwhile, I hope it works and catches on.

Mike Lorrey, Have you hind tested the process? Would, for instance, plate tectonics have ever become accepted? It seems that under the system you propose it would fail. Likewise dinosaurs -> birds. Any number of examples come to mind.

Ron Van Wegen

I’d like to trive the “dinosaurs learning to fly” myth. Where do I begin?

you clearly do not know me. One reason we invented blockchain technology was to tear down the globalists, the nationalists, the central banks and bankers, the fiat money speculators, the ponzi scammers, the naked shorting hedge funders, and all others that seek to demolish and degrade western civilization. The wealth of the anglosphere was built on sound money: gold and silver. It has decayed under fiat money and become a looters paradise. Blockchain enables digital money that behaves exactly like gold and silver money. That is exactly the opposite of what the globalists want. Please take your ad homs elsewhere. – mikelorrey

This reply is machine like, are you sure you aren’t a bot?
Again, who are you people? You have no human sense, you come across as alien, in any sense of the word!

Reg Nelson

The problem with this, as I see it, is that you assume people don’t wan’t to read fake news. The reality is that many\most readers are fine with fake news as long as it conforms to their viewpoints. They only oppose fake news that goes against their views. Imagine if Griff or Ivan installed the plug-in and woke up to find every Guardian article they tried to read was blurred out. LOL
Another thing: MSM outlets (most of whom are left leaning) don’t care whether the articles they publish are real or fake. They only care about page views and ad revenue, both of which continue to decline,resulting in operating losses and layoffs.
And what about the liability issue. What if Trive marks a story as fake and the website sues them for lost revenue?
That said, I wish you well with your endeavor.

joelobryan

The advantage that a Sybyl Attack enjoys is one of fervent activism to an agenda by the attackers.
It is how the environmental agenda, the the social justice agenda (LGBT and BLM for instance) have been successful at altering the consensus within organizations and in society at large.
That activism is always taken from a moral superiority position, even where no moral superiority exists on deep examination. And even in some cases, the activism is directly and diametrically opposed to the existing canons within an organization.

whiten

Mike Lorrey
Der Sir.
Thank you for your effort with this subject.
Please allow me to express my self in relation to the subject here, and my superficial understanding of it.
Not meaning to upset or otherwise, simply trying to engage.
I think in principal, as per my point of view, the idea you forward is a good idea.
But also I think there is some not so quite clear position of it all.
For example, the main points that attract me, and to some point may subject me to an argument are:
First the consideration of the term “bounty” and “bounty hunters” , as per the concept of the blockchain.
Second the consideration of Alec Turing and his amazing success in code breaking..
And third, the real meaning of proof of work, where the 21 million limit no ever can be passed in bitcoin, where it simply stands as a “peak bitcoin”, no any better than any other “peak” of whatever or however contemplated and considered up to now. Same in principle. Still not that bad as a reference point for some kind of assessment.
So when it comes to the “bounty” in the context of blockchan, I think it works differently, it works slightly different, as far as I can tell.
Who puts the “bounty” does not pay the “bounty hunters”, in the end,,,,, that one simply gets compensated and payed by the “bounty hunters”, if the “bounty” not fake.
Which makes the principle of “payment” quite opposite to what your method here suggests.
Second, as far as I can tell, even when considering the success of Turing and his “Machine” as per the concept of a brute force attack, the real thing stands as in the lines of, without the codes, still that could not have being good enough or successful enough, which brinks us back to the blockchane, where without the codes and the valid path no much gain there, regardless of the potential of hacking and trespassing…there really no chance to destroy data, and no chance to hide after.
The Turing legacy.
In this point, if I am not wildly dreaming, blockchane behaves and is like a well mix of reality in cyberspace with and a “honey pot” process, in the same time-space in internet. “Live”
A very quick and efficient tracking and live monitoring of the trespassers, without the trespasser being really aware of it….at all. Maybe this a little too much. 🙂
Then, I really think, that the claim of 21 million limit in bitcoin, is a bit far fetched, even when addressing it mathematically, it can offer some insight in the matter.
All this I say is simply in the context of, as simply as put, good idea but not a “free range” one as expected to be, from my point of view in the regard of the blockchain.
At this point I got to ask this simple question.
If you think and you happen to believe that in one or two decades the governments of this world of ours must change and really adapt to this “thing” in a flexible and efficient way, or else….how could this ‘thing” be or was allowed to be and persist by this same governments, which really must have ‘hated’ and ‘despised” it so much.
How this kind of “nemesis” of the Cyber bulling power was allowed in the first place, by the most powerful and most “cyber potential” and most “cyber bulling” governments of this world of ours (and all their most potential and most powerful cyber agencies)?? ….how could this be????
cheers

incomprehensiblegobbldygookapparentlywellmeaning

whiten

philsalmon
May 10, 2018 at 1:43 pm
incomprehensiblegobbldygookapparentlywellmeaning
——————–
Oh, well, put as simple and as short as possible… Satoshi…!
🙂

“incomprehensible……” etc
My sentiments also. In my now long experience of human regulatory systems (that includes a substantial amount of statute drafting), one thing stands out. The best systems are simple ones. Sooner or later, complexity fails.

The author wrote the following:
“The courts are a mess of bias,
police are blatantly abusive of citizens
unless they are provably elites,
elections are being stolen by voter fraud”.
In my opinion, the author has a problem recognizing reality,
and should not be listened to.
Even worse, his proposal is for MORE censorship
of climate science and climate change documents,
as if some powerful “committee”, or “jury”,
could determine what is fake science,
and what is real science.
Mainstream climate “science” is mainly assumptions,
speculation and wrong predictions of the future climate.
That’s why we are here — we can tell the difference between
fake (junk) science and real science.
We don’t like the wild guess predictions of doom, but we have
to read some of them to understand, and then refute,
the latest climate change fairy tales.
.
.
.
The author also wrote:
“We can no longer trust our media.”
The truth is we could NEVER trust our media,
and the bias / lack of investigative reporting
didn’t start in 2016:
— The fake Gulf of Tonkin incident
was used to ramp up the Vietnam War.
— The fake weapons of mass destruction claim
was used to start a war with Iraq.
— The Trump-Russian collusion never happened.
— Every scary climate article is published by
leftist-biased media (about 95%) without question.

markl

“Fake news” is effective because once the bomb is dropped the damage is done. How would this stop the original misinformation? The only measurement of success for a commercial news outlet is audience size, not truth. The notion that a retailer would place adds in media because they are truthful rather than widely viewed is noble but won’t sell more retailer product. I also bet there’s reasons why businesses choose one news outlet over another to carry their advertisements due to audience type and not size. That being said I hope I’m wrong and this succeeds.

Gunga Din

I admit I haven’t read it all but, from what I did read it seems that there is too much reliance on the numbers that agree with…whatever…rather than whether or not “whatever” is actually true.
Also, why would the “MannLewGliech”s care about Trive as long as they got the headline?
A noble effort. Keep being noble … but don’t expect others to be the same.
I repeat, I didn’t read everything. Maybe my thoughts have already been addressed.

I like succinct. That has eluded me on this topic until now.
Pay per true.

dodgy geezer

An Earnest Message to Mike Lorrey.
Mike,
There are two very similar situations here which you do not diferentiate between.
One is the case where an individual tries to convince someone of something using incorrect or unbalanced information, and relies on the ‘mark’ not being able to find out the truth. Let us call that the ‘Car Salesman’ case. This is a circumstance where the only active participants are the salesman and the customer – all other people have no concern about the outcome, and would be happy to analyse claims objectively.
The second is the case where a person tries to change someone’s political viewpoint, using data which is currently accepted as accurate using prevailing scientific theory. In this case there are a whole host of extra participants – the supporters of the originally-held political belief – who will rapidly exert social pressure to suppress the person from communicating, will develop multiple spurious arguments to ‘rebut’ the original data (leading to infinite regress arguments) and will pull up drawbridges to create an ‘us and them’ attitude, where supporters are expected to rally to the flag and support the political viewpoint at issue, in spite of any evidence to the contrary.
Your system will work well for the first situation. There are many examples of ‘expert’ consumer mazines and blogs which offer fairly dispassionate ‘true’ data about consumer items already. But there are NO similar services for political debate, or, indeed, religious matters. Because these are topics where there are few or no ‘independent’ analysts. Under these circumstances your blockchain structure is fatally undermined.
To better understand how humans behave in the circumstances we are in, I heartily recomend Charles Mackay’s excellent book Extrordinary Popular Delusiions and the Madness of Crowds It’s readily available on Ebay and Amazon, and free on Gutenberg:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/24518/24518-h/24518-h.htm