Guardian: Climate Denial is the Fault of Old White People

Debating Society, Picadilly, 1808

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

h/t The Spectator – Guardian author John Gibbons has written an extraordinary piece which blames climate denial on old white people.

Climate deniers want to protect the status quo that made them rich

Sceptics prefer to reject regulations to combat global warming and remain indifferent to the havoc it will wreak on future generations

From my vantage point outside the glass doors, the sea of grey hair and balding pates had the appearance of a golf society event or an active retirement group. Instead, it was the inaugural meeting of Ireland’s first climate denial group, the self-styled Irish Climate Science Forum (ICSF) in Dublin in May. All media were barred from attending.

Its guest speaker was the retired physicist and noted US climate contrarian, Richard Lindzen. His jeremiad against the “narrative of hysteria” on climate change was lapped up by an audience largely composed of male engineers and meteorologists – mostly retired. This demographic profile of attendees at climate denier meetings has been replicated in London, Washington and elsewhere.

Short-termism and self-interest is part of the answer. A 2012 study in Nature Climate Change presented evidence of “how remarkably well-equipped ordinary individuals are to discern which stances towards scientific information secure their personal interests”.

This is surely only half the explanation. A 2007 study by Kahan et al on risk perception identified “atypically high levels of technological and environmental risk acceptance among white males”. An earlier paper teased out a similar point: “Perhaps white males see less risk in the world because they create, manage, control and benefit from so much of it.” Others, who have not enjoyed such an armchair ride in life, report far higher levels of risk aversion.

Another 2011 paper observed uncontroversially that “conservative white males are likely to favour protection of the current industrial capitalist order which has historically served them well”. It added that “heightened emotional and psychic investment in defending in-group claims may translate into misperceived understanding about problems like climate change that threaten the continued order of the system.”

A paper earlier this year from Vanderbilt University pinpointed what motivates many who choose to reject climate change: not science denial, but “regulation phobia”. Most deniers accept science in general, and even pride themselves on their science literacy, however, combatting climate change means more regulations and, the paper says, “demands a transformation of internalised attitudes”. This, the authors conclude, “has produced what can fairly be described as a phobic reaction among many people”

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/22/climate-deniers-protect-status-quo-that-made-them-rich

I have an alternative theory.

The middle age engineers and meteorologists in that room in Ireland, and other similar gatherings, were taught how to think for themselves, back in an age when schools were focussed on education.

We learned our history – we learned that democracy is fragile, that sometimes people trade freedom for safety, even when the threat is imaginary.

We learned we should not believe everything we read – that people who call themselves scientists sometimes lie about their work.

We learned that it is OK to evaluate the evidence for ourselves, to reach our own conclusions.

And yes, we also learned that racial stereotyping is silly and wrong; that not all climate skeptics are white.

Advertisements

295 thoughts on “Guardian: Climate Denial is the Fault of Old White People

      • It’s awesome how he considers older heads, with real science training and an ethos of honesty, with denial as a flaw and the younger crowd, admittedly less scientifically educated, being bought and paid for by the billions in warming funds are the real scientists. A little perspective would reveal that the older heads not only have a better point of view regarding background, but they also simply have a longer term perspective themselves that gives them a superior view of the situation

      • There was a time when, in most societies, the older generations were respected for their wisdom.

        Oddly the right-on right lefty Guardian crew are the first attack racism, sexism and ageism but have no problem in combining all three.

        Clearly their moral standards are as fluid as their “gender identification”.

        If “balding pates” and a pale face are an indication of those who willingly and knowingly ignore “science” maybe they will stop reproducing the lies and deception promulgated by cue-balls like John Abrams, ME Mann, John Cook, James Hansen and Gavin Schmidt.

        But of course their insults and racial stereotypes are also only applied where convenient. Hypocrites as usual.

      • I don’t believe i have read such a disgusting ,mendacious attack on a group of people .almost racist, in tone,as this one
        He appears to attribute or transfer the’ green’s motives ‘(ie to control manage regulate etc.)to a group of !mostly retired’ meteorologists &engineers ,who (he claims )want to control …….something ?????

      • kendo, it isn’t “almost racist”, it is racist.
        Of course since they are of the left, such racism is acceptable.

      • “There was a time when, in most societies, the older generations were respected for their wisdom. ”

        Yes. But we now live in a ‘Progressive’ age, where everything the old people did was wrong, and must be changed For Great Progress!

        The cult of youth is one of the left’s greatest successes. Because you haven’t have Progresive Utopia if you have to listen to the old farts telling you why it won’t work.

    • Yes, I am thankful for old people of any complexion who have the good sense to think for themselves and provide sober guidance based on years of practical and objective experience of the real world. Magical thinking seems to be the realm of the young and gullible who never had to struggle to make their lives work. I suspect they well all get an education when they begin to suffer the privations of their self-imposed rationing of the gifts of modern industrial society.

      • There isn’t going to BE a modern industrial society. Those same evil leftist propaganda pushers at the Grauniad also support demographic replacement of white Christians with black and brown Muslims. We have already fallen off that cliff and are heading at accelerating pace towards a new dark ages from which there may be no Renaissance.

      • ” … demographic replacement of white Christians with black and brown Muslims.”

        With regard to the “white Christians” and “brown Muslims”, is it the “Christians” versus the “Muslims” or the “white” versus the “brown” that gives you pause?

        Many in the genetics “community” these days deny that “Race” exists except as a sociological construct. Others argue that Race is a biological reality. I don’t know for sure. Let’s assume the folks in the latter camp are correct.

        Then isn’t it true that Arabs are Caucasian by DNA? So which part of the “brown Muslim” do you fear most, the “brown” or the “Muslim”?

        (This trend of getting off topic needs to stop) MOD

      • (This trend of getting off topic needs to stop) MOD

        I’m sorry about that? I thought the article seemed to center around race.

        (You were getting into race itself,which is now a diversion from the topic,which is about White people allegedly denying climate change) MOD

    • The long quote from Gibbons [not the author of the article; merely quoted within the article] is plainly ageist and racist. It is also – very likely – misanthropic.
      For shame.
      [Mods – see below – /SARC. Cubed.]

      Auto.

      Goodness – it is ridiculous that I should write the above -but would I have done so were there not a plethora of articles, not just in climate [not ‘climate science – for sure ], finding ‘isms’ in everything from white-boards to blackberries, Asian slaw to brown hatters. everywhere anyone looks [or, I guess, doesn’t care to look . . . . . . ]
      Sad – ain’t it.

  1. “Climate denial-is the fault of old white people”
    Thank you. My work here is done.
    BTW, exactly what is it that you think I am denying? Gore, DiCaprio, De Grasse Tyson, Nye, Griff, Mosh, Stokes, feel free to weigh in.

    • Furthermore, I would stake my last dollar that Richard Lindzen has forgotten more about climate science than John Gibbons and the above stated climate “experts” will ever know.

      • John Gibbons is not an ‘expert’ he is a journalist for the Leftist rag Pravda …. er, Guardian. He doesn’t know the science and it is him who is indulging in Motivated Reasoning. What a tosspot.

      • John Gibbons is an activist who recycles the warmunist narrative from abroad in the Irish media. I first came across him on a radio interview a few years ago when he was the environmental correspondent for the Irish Times newspaper (Core demographic: progressive left wealthy middle class in Ireland) before he was let go in a series of cutbacks. Generally he is bought on by radio producers in the media to generate “heat” to keep the audience engaged.

        If you want to get a feel for him then look at http://www.indymedia.ie/article/95060

        There is an mp3 link to the interview if you follow the comments.

      • I totally agree with you and mostly with the tautological and syllogism fallacy of the therm of “climate change”denials !
        About journalists try to remember what Mark Twain said about it: “The journalist is a person who write about everything without knowing nothing” and … always quoting what he will be never able to understand( my own contribution )
        Anyhow I really like your contribution !
        Thank you and to all realistic people !

      • Brett, I agree with you about ad hominem attacks. My point would be that Stokes and Mosher are much better informed than the other ‘celebrities.’

      • Nick and Mosher,two aging white men, make a valued contribution to the debate. Nick,his website about temperature trends, Mosher for his Climategate book.

    • Kam, that is a good list of rogues and easily deceived followers (what Stalin called useful idiots).
      I suppose to say that the rogues are generally scoundrels and not truth tellers is an underestimate
      of their deceit and ability to deceive and make money on the backs of useful idiots.

    • I’m old, white, and on a modest pension. Am I supposed to be rich?
      Yes, about 2% of the old crackers I hang with when visiting AZ could be classified as “rich” farmers and my wife has a shirttail relative who is CEO of a fuel terminal distributorship. The fact that we worked hard to get where we are has no relevance to believing or disbelieving anthropogenic climate forcing through the virtual magic of CO2.
      Mostly I think that we are free of the socialist indoctrination, which those who subscribe to the cultural ideologies which develop at street level in segregated minority communities are inundated with. Our food and shelter do not depend on how well we “work the system”, so we are naturally more independent thinkers who have learned perspicaciousness over our working careers.

    • The Guardian exists at this point solely to prop up lefty propaganda for the snowflakes who clap like trained seals. Meanwhile, several skeptical books are near the tip-top of the Amazon best sellers’ list–which Gore’s recent effort occupies about 100 down the list. “Warmism” has jumped the shark, folks–WAAAAAY too many ordinary people now know the truth. Maybe they can sell this BS in ivory-tower land where groupthink reigns, but nowhere else. For which we have MANY of those “grayheads and balding pates” here to thank!
      Keep up the good work, everyone! ;-)

  2. Full Closure for All

    I suggest that all scientists/futurists/businesses/universities/federal agencies/NGO’s/forecasters/analysts/energy predictors/environmental activists, should have to disclose the following material information:

    1. Disclose if, where, how much and from whom they received funds if it relates to their predictions or studies;
    2. Disclose the authors along with the general and specific sources of information and methodology used to formulate their prediction;
    3. Disclose an accounting of their previous predictions much like Wall Streeters do: 1-5-10 year’s results of their prediction;
    4. Disclose their new prediction(s) with a future timeframe.

  3. Re: “regulation phobia”.

    Because combatting climate change is a pseudo-issue, fueled only by conjecture based on not-fit-for-purpose models and speculation with, moreover, anti-correlative evidence against it (human CO2 up, warming stopped),

    science realists know
    that mandating anything to “combat” it
    is a waste of time and money.

    *****************************************

    Good ol’ ad hominem meets the red herring maneuver (yawn), once AGAIN.

      • Thats the new generation of people. I see this kind of entitlement thinking everywhere. And suddenly in case of even a mild desaster they see the collapse of the government response and they think more regulation will solve the problem.

        I think this is a sad development…

  4. i’ve known of dogs that would tip over the kitchen garbage in order to get attention, even tho it meant a beating.
    that’s what this all looks like to me
    it’s an easy experiment, eh. might work.

    • i never kept a dog.
      people who leave them in a house alone all day are not available when the animal wants attention.
      and my point was evidently obscure so i’ll just find something productive to do.

      • Your point was evident. It is in line with the likes of “bad attention is better than no attention at all”.

      • Some people leave them in confined spaces while gone then play with the dog when they come home.

        And, yes, your point was clear.

    • gnomish – September 22, 2017 at 6:15 pm

      i’ve known of dogs that would tip over the kitchen garbage in order to get attention, even tho it meant a beating.

      [September 22, 2017 at 7:29 pm]
      i never kept a dog.

      Gnomish, it is obvious to me that whoever told you that was completely ignorant of their dog’s actions.

      What should have been stated was, ……. “Those attention seeking journalists are like the pet dogs that people leave in a house alone all day …… that pee all over and/or against the furniture, ……. because the animal wants attention, even though they know they will get a beating.

      • Or because they just couldn’t hold it anymore. Healthy dogs usually won’t soil areas they frequent if they have a choice. My own two, who live outside 24/7, always answer nature in 2-3 areas of the yard that almost seem marked off for that purpose. They eat, sleep, and play elsewhere. Makes the daily cleanup faster and easier; I only need to inspect their “bathrooms”.

      • Healthy dogs usually won’t soil areas they frequent if they have a choice.

        “HA”, if outside, healthy dogs will always “mark” the areas they frequent.

        And “Yes”, healthy dogs will piss on the inside house furnishings iffen they get angry with their “master” for leaving them confined in the house/home.

  5. “Sceptics prefer to reject regulations to combat global warming and remain indifferent to the havoc it will wreak on future generations”

    NO, we are all quite aware of the havoc that climate regulations will have on future generations.

    That is why this manic anti-science, anti-progress, CO2-hatred, far-left agenda must be stopped.

      • This is why the left are so determined to import millions of ‘migrants’ to do the votes that old, white people won’t do.

      • The Left is no longer capable of being internally consistent. Like the “Ouroboros” snake, it is eating its own tail. The head should have swallowed itself by 2018 at the latest!

  6. Well, six of my great-grandparents were “white” (although maybe one would have been acceptable to the then current versions of the Know-Nothings), and I am sorta old, but experience with silly world saving proposals does take time to acquire.
    I am ashamed of some of the political views I had, (I voted for Jimmy Carter! worse, Jerry Brown!). The real pity is that old white guys like Carter or Brown seem to have become even worse, so one cannot generally blame old white guys.

    • When I was a kid, socialism meant folks working together to improve their future. No doubt, it was a special time and place. The ideal was that everyone should have meaningful employment and be able to raise a family in safety and dignity. My elders remembered the Great Depression and WW2. They knew what hard times were.

      Today’s coddled weenies are so fragile that literally anything can trigger them and they have to retreat to their safe space.

      It suits some people that we should forget the things that made our society great. Jordan Peterson refers to The United States of Amnesia. Forgetting turns us into sheeple who can be easily manipulated.

      The reason skeptics are grey haired is that they are the ones who remember when our society was great and they remember why it was great.

      If you want totalitarianism, the first thing you have to do is erase people’s cultural memory. Jung

      • commieB

        I heard a great quote today from a friend in Holland. He said, “Some people are sheep, some are lemmings.”

        CAGW has lots of supports from both those camps.

      • CommieBob. Socialism/communism never meant, nor was intended to, working together to improve their future. They have always seen as a path to tyranny. And that is what they have always been and will be.

      • Leonard Lane September 22, 2017 at 9:57 pm

        … They have always seen as a path to tyranny.

        It takes on a totally different flavour when farmers get involved. After the dirty thirties, it’s understandable that folks would be cynical about unbridled capitalism. Saskatchewan already had a history of cooperation so it’s natural that Canada’s deepest socialist roots are there.

        Early in Saskatchewan, the farmers were being abused by the grain companies and the railways. Sintaluta case The farmers banded together to ship their wheat to the lakehead and cut out the middle man. Farmers know the value of working together.

        Every capitalist wants to be a monopolist and is quite capable of being a tyrant. In that regard folks can band together against tyranny. It can take many forms: cooperatives, unions, the election of Donald Trump …

  7. Hey, I’m quite happy to take the blame for climate denial if somebody can just tell me exactly what it is that I am denying. For bonus points they can tell me why denying whatever it is that I’m denying is a bad thing.

    I wait with bated breath. No actually I don’t. I made that bit up.

  8. Many people’s brains ceased functioning when computers became ubiquitous. I’d say that was about 2009 or so.

    “If you put tomfoolery into a computer, nothing comes out of it but tomfoolery. But this tomfoolery, having passed through a very expensive machine, is somehow ennobled and no-one dares criticize it.”
    – Pierre Gallois

  9. For crying out loud, every damned thing is the fault of old white people. I say we pack up all the stuff we’ve done and leave the know-it-all younger generation floundering without their computers, efficient agriculture, trains, planes and automobiles. They can also have the pollution that we cleaned up, go back to segregated washrooms and schools. Of course, they’d better start learning German pretty damned fast since they ‘ll be answering to a Feurer.

    • Making it a sex/race/age thing is setting themselves up for a major embarrassment when the truth finally prevails.
      It’s also part of the reason they need so desperately to cling to a losing position.
      Not that we aging white males feel the need to crow whenever we have a win, we’re used to it.

      • Trump just assured his victory in 2020 with yesterday’s comments on the NFL. Greatest. Popcorn. Moment. EVAH!

      • It’s interesting that you think there’s going to be some sort of final revelation and winners and losers declared in this. There aren’t. What we are dealing with here is a civilisational war and AGW is simply a part of the catechism of the left. There is nothing even in principle which could happen which would make the left back down on it. If a new ice age begins shortly that too will be blamed on human emissions. People like Stokes are literally religious acolytes and the entirety of academia, the once proud institutions and prestigious journals and virtually every politician in the Western world has backed this to the hilt. They cannot all turn around tomorrow and simply admit that they got it all hideously wrong and apologise for blowing trillions of tax-payer’s bucks on something which normal people had been telling them all along was a pile of male bovid ordure. There can be no winners here.

      • SJW’s like losing (obviously, since they do so much of it). It enables them to feel more like aggrieved victims, which is their natural state. Also, to get more meds from their MD . . .

  10. China is, by far, the largest polluter in the world — and by that I mean the water is not safe to drink, the food from wet markets are not safe eat, the air in major tier cities is not safe to breathe.

    But of course this is all whitey’s fault.

    What a load of rubbish.

    • And that is food when it is not fake food. The Chinese are good at making fake stuff, been at it for a few thousand years.

    • Do you realize that the United States Federal Government is, by many times over, the largest polluter of both air and water that exists in The United States? And that includes being by far the largest emitter of CO2 along with just about all of the other so-called greenhouse gases with the exception of water vapor — the dominant greenhouse gas.

  11. Don’t you love how our diversity worshiping liberal friends launch an derogatory attack on a group defined by their age and the color of their skin.

    Their hypocrisy is breathtaking.

  12. Matthew Schneider-Mayerson is talking about the peak oil theology here, but I think it applies to the CAGW theology too.

    My survey respondents readily acknowledged the influence of apocalyptic popular culture on their conception of the future… At a historical moment when radical change through social movements or electoral politics seems unlikely to many Americans, the prophesy of national regeneration through crisis provides a means of imagining a significantly different world.

    MATTHEW SCHNEIDER-MAYERSON, Peak Oil

    So the peak oil and CAGW theologies are connected at the hip, falling under the rubric of what Schneider-Mayerson calls “apocalyptic environmentalism.”

    That the left would try to make it about identity politics comes as no surprise, since the left tries to make everything about identity politics.

    As Schneider-Mayerson goes on to explain:

    Peakists saw oil depletion as a historical event that might finally bring about a revolutionary transformation and put an end to American imperialism and even capitalism. This change would be achieved not by a social movement but by the petroleum-powered American way of life tripping over its ecological limits.

    It is absolutely necessary that peak oil and CAGW come to pass if the prophecy of political and social transformation is to be fulfilled.

    • That quote is the typical bilge one gets from a dialectical materialist. It is a variation on the ‘unilineal’ approach to revolution: there is only ONE WAY! Even Karl Marx was a multi-linealist (many lines to the inevitable future). It is funny to think of CAGW and peak oil as Engels-ist unilineal theories. “Come the revolution, there’s going to be no gas!”

      There may be no gas in their tank but there is no shortage of them passing it.

  13. There is a reason that criminal defense attorneys are taught in seminars to attempt to use voire dire to exclude engineers.

    When your case relies heavily on playing to the emotions because the facts and logic are against you, you don’t want disciplined thinkers on the jury or, if they ARE on the jury….. you do your best to make them seem like people who should not be listened to (because they just “don’t get this kind of thing”) when the jury retires to the deliberating room.

    Thus, this article nicely makes the point that: AGW is based on *poof* nothing of substance.

    ********************************************

    It’s really not about an accurate assessment of the situation at all — and the author (with no plausible to claim to being naive and ignorant) did not intend it to be. By twisting the truth about the demographics of science realists, the author simply attempts to get people to vote for AGW junk measures by appealing to the anger that the typical Democrat or “liberal” (in U.S.) voter has at “white, older, men” (from WHO knows where….. Dad? Grandpa? TV? shrug….. God? (many of them, while trying very hard to be an atheist, actually, somewhere in their psyche, hate God or the idea of God having anything to say about what they do….. and they subconsciously likely “see” God as an old, Caucasian, man, a la, Sistine Chapel ceiling or Santa Claus or whatever)).

    Or, more pragmatically, by appealing to libs’ racist tendencies (remember how important it was to “vote for him because he is black?”…. Mm, hm.)
    to provided cover via a duped public
    to put them back into office/for passing fantasy science-based regs.
    to do their AGW dirty deeds (delivering to their funders, the enviroprofiteers the tax subsidies/market share by regulation they need to make bucks).

    In summary: follow the money.

    • An up to date, fashionable God is almost certainly a black, Asian, Australian Aborigine, Pygmy, Latina transexual, bisexual, pansexual, omnisexual Lesbian Queer Muslim single mom of a transexual baby.

    • “appealing to the anger that the typical Democrat or “liberal” (in U.S.) voter has at “white, older, men””

      And the typical Democrat or liberal voter ignores the fact that their recent leadership was Bernie Sanders, Harry Reid, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton….rich old white men all.

  14. It’s always the same – the absolute inability to even consider the remotest possibility that the sceptics might have a point. Hence the flailing around looking for explanations as to why sceptics are so mistaken.

    an audience largely composed of male engineers and meteorologists

    I suppose it’s marginally possible that meteorologists might know a thing or two about climate, you know, weather and that sort of thing – it’s sort of related to climate isn’t it?. It’s even possible that they – good grief!! – might know more about weather and climate than John Gibbons, shocking as the thought might be. /sarc (I suppose the /sarc is necessary in these humourless times)

    • And what do engineers know about physical models and calculations with lots of variables? All they do is build stuff and predict consequences and lose their jobs of they get one tiny thing wrong.

      • Leonard,
        Perhaps you’ve never really seen a real engineer at work? I say this because Crispin, in my 35 years of experience working with world class engineers, has it exactly right.

    • . . . the absolute inability to even consider the remotest possibility that the sceptics might have a point.
      There’s a reason for that. When your position is essentially sound, you can afford to concede a point. When what you are trying to defend is bollocks all the way down, the subconscious sends a strong message that once retreat begins, it can’t be stopped.

  15. The Calvinists and Al Gore do have a pickle to solve. It’s Caucasian!

    You see, Global Warming … Anthropogenic Global Warming …. Climate Change … Anthropogenic Climate Change … Carbon Anthropogenic Climate Change … is all about … Caucasians … The Chalk Peoples! Because it is the Chalk Peoples who gave us … arts … economy … industry … languages … laws … letters … logic … mathematics … medicines … sciences.

    So to … cut-to-the-quick … Global Warming and all of it’s literary allusions and illusions … is just an exercise in Caucasian Hatred … which for most, even Albert P. Gore Jr, is nothing more than self hatred projected onto others of the Caucasian Peoples without pity or thought or understanding!

    That means that Albert P. Gore Jr …. will soon become a … Black Man!

    Al really needs help … but then … He’s shelling out millions of dollars for this and that. Who cares! As long as he is spending his money! Let The Man Spend His Money! And then get caught being masturbated by Nancy Pelosi in a “Peep Show” on Market Street, The Tender Loin, San Francisco, California. Ha haha ha

  16. “…an audience largely composed of male engineers and meteorologists – mostly retired.”

    So, he is describing senior, experienced experts with a long history of studying the very questions climate concerns highlight. Hmmm…. sounds pretty good to me. When the subject it controversial, seek the sober and the experienced.

    What does that say about those who are off-white, un-aged and working in irrelevant or tangential fields?

    I do not believe that common sense is limited to old white men. I have met many thousands of non-white, non-male sensible people. Based on the ignorance and bias evident in the Guardian piece, it is difficult to include the author in that large mass of humanity. Pity.

    • “an audience largely composed of male engineers and meteorologists – mostly retired.”

      They can now speak freely if they can’t be fired. A no-brainer.

  17. Gibbons’ screed ignores any notion that wisdom comes with age. I guess having been around the block quite a bit in life doesn’t help one learn any of life’s lessons. I am not saying that all older people are smarter than their younger counterparts, but their are no doubt many cases where it is true.

    His rant also appears to me to be yet another attempt at the blending or merger of Marxism or Socialism with environmentalism and climate alarmism. This of course is something that has been going on now for quite some time. Marxist-Socialism hasn’t really proven itself with a great deal of success in history when compared with the free markets and democracy (with some socialism blended in), so they have to go in through the back door of environmentalism and climate alarmism to get to the elevator and the top floor of political power.

    I’m sorry Gibbons, but the snow on my roof means that I’ve learned enough of life’s lesson to know that it is just plain stupid to blindly climb on board the bandwagon of mass hysteria and group-think without asking any questions — and a lot of them. Those who are still questioning the climate alarmist hysteria and group-think have waaay too many issues and unanswered questions for the alarmists. I’ve seen science get things wrong initially (the now dwarf planet Pluto for example as well as the cause of stomach ulcers) and taking years and decades to get it right.

    And please excuse me for working hard much of my life and saving and investing to earn the net worth that I now have. Gibbons, your screed demonstrates that YOU are the one who have much to learn about life, about science and how it works, and about the pathways to success. I strongly recommend that you start learning rather than preaching your garbage to others.

    • Well done! The problem I have with these people is that even when they are wrong they just won’t go away. I think one problem is truly that there a lot of fairly stupid, poorly educated people out there who actually think they are smart. They’ve been told their whole lives they’re special and smart, and the only thing they do is parrot smarter people while never truly understanding anything. They’re argument is often “well, you don’t have a degree in’x’ , so therefore your argument is invalid, even though I don’t have a chance in hell at even understanding your argument because I have a social work degree, but it’s from college so it proves I’m smart. 97% of something proves me right!” If there weren’t so many of them it might be funny, but sometimes I wonder where the actual smart people have gone on the left. I voted democrat many times but there’s no way in hell I can do that now because whatever they are it ain’t democrat.

      • Where have the smart people on the left gone? Good question.

        My view; all smart people who experience psychological emotional problems suffer tremendous mental impairment. Today’s left is driven by emotion, their arguments are based on emotion. Their education is based on appeal to emotion. Identify politics is based on the principle of ” divide and conquer” Not one high school student in my son’s class could name ONE benefit of CO2. But all could endlessly fret about polar bears, ice loss, SL rise and hurricanes. And today’s snowflakes run to their safe spaces when anyone makes reasoned rebuttals to their trigger issues. All their issues are trigger issues. And they love pot and so ignore scientific evidence that MJ lowers IQ, and like all dependency drugs, has many adverse psychological affects.

        Additionally many of those that reject all religion have a tendency to want to be God. Most everyone that wants to be God, (desires power over others, the basis of most crime) tends to be a leftist statist.

        In short their intelligence is crippled by their psychological issues and their emotion charged biased education.

      • @David A

        I don’t think this has anything to do with ‘left’ or ‘right’ in the political spectrum – it is tied more with individual and group psychology. Most of the people who indulge in the kind of relentless identity politics you describe might identify as left wing, but are by and large ignorant of the mechanisms and history of social and political systems. The like to wear the clothes of a social group that makes them identify with and feel like the historically ‘oppressed’ as this is a good vantage point from which to channel their own feelings of bitterness, unfulfilled entitlement and anonymity into attacking others while protecting themselves from retaliation by characterising anyone who disagrees with them as ‘the oppressor’ (in a way a failure to escape a stage of development that is normally confined to childhood years). Meanwhile the construction of an ideological belief system – a simulacra of reality populated by idols of altruism, social concern, compassion, guilt about inherited status – worshipped at a superficial level with no understanding of these concepts that doesn’t spring from the internal references of the belief system itself – helps to further this self-characterisation and also allow for the compensatory suppression of the real motivating core of this newish brand of Guardianista politics: a form of pure authoritarianism and often a manifestation of deeply buried prejudice (including social and racial) which laid bare would be in open conflict with their stated beliefs.

        Put simply, these are people who have found a way to legitimise bullying to make themselves feel better about failure to reconcile with who they really are, and failure to be who they would really like to be. Amongst the many other idols they have appropriated for themselves, the most crushingly ironic is the term ‘liberal’. They should be called out for what they are and branded authoritarians.

      • there a lot of fairly stupid, poorly educated people out there who actually think they are smart

        Zackly.

      • JJB MKI wrote:

        it is tied more with individual and group psychology…

        Wow, great summary and I think you’re correct. But explaining this takes so long that you’d be hit with at least 7 bike locks and 3 bottles of urine before you’d be one sentence in.

      • HotScot
        September 23, 2017 at 5:43 am

        Where have the smart people on the left gone?

        By definition, there’s no such thing.

        Reading earlier up thread, the answer appears to be that as they get older the smart people move to the right.

        SteveT

      • Good observation, ChilemIke I have been telling family and friends that the parties they traditionally voted for on the left are that in name only. They’ve outsourced their real constituency. The vote gets you global elitist gov, regulating you without your being able to do anything about it.

        I don’t let the right off either. Were it not for Trump, the GOP was headed in the same direction. The swamp is full of in-name-onlys. Indeed, had Hillary won, we would have ended with 8yrs of more designer-brained millennials, and that would have removed the only roadblock to the global elite gov of the western world.

        I was cheered by Brexit, but now I see all parties have been homogenized. What happened to UKIP? I don’t know. They engineered Brexit and then seemed to disappear when Farage retired, losing the clear edge. Are UKIP and Donald the best thing ever? No, but they are the only ones who dont think any enterprise is too big to fail and they know turning this mess around is going to be fought tooth and nail – the swamp is a perfect analogy.

        So for a couple of terms, you need crocodile wrestlers instead of Rhodes Scholars.. If they can fix the economy while they’re draining the swamp for their own citizens, it would evolve back to a good path on its own.

    • I wouldn’t say that older people are any smarter than any other group. However, having been around the block a few times gives us a perspective that younger people lack.
      That is, it’s hard to scare us with environmental ghost stories, because we’ve seen it all before.
      New nonsense crops up every couple of decades. Acid rain, nuclear winter, ozone, global cooling, now global warming.

      • “I wouldn’t say that older people are any smarter than any other group. However, having been around the block a few times gives us a perspective that younger people lack.”

        Give me wisdom over intellect. Wisdom is better than silver or gold.

      • It’s much more than that though. There is a generational difference which transcends age. The difference between how those who grew up in the 50s – 70’s and later generations is a stark one and involves the fact that, in general, we were taught how to think, not what to think.

      • Oldsters may not be smarter that the youngsters, but they 1) were educated at a time when educational rigor and standards were valued, 2) probably spent some of their lives reading books that broadened their perspective and 3) had years more experience in dealing with the do-do of fad movements.

      • My grandfather on my mother’s side only had a 6th grade education, but he likely knew more about the world and how to live in it than a football field full of today’s college grads.

      • “Acid rain, nuclear winter, ozone, global cooling, now global warming”

        and then after that came an inconvenient pause
        which gathered steam till there was no way of stopping it,
        so round and round we go until we’re back to global cooling …

    • Not only that, they are unlikely to be neurotic, while at the same time having been taught and used the testing of null hypotheses.
      Al Gore films look like neurosis on steroids.
      Basically the climate is dangerous and alarmingly so, and we caused it.
      https://www.google.com.au/search?q=photograph+of+Al+Gore&tbm=isch&imgil=XBeV4A38anGveM%253A%253BjZwNmRxBbnjzPM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.gettyimages.com%25252Fphotos%25252Fal-gore&source=iu&pf=m&fir=XBeV4A38anGveM%253A%252CjZwNmRxBbnjzPM%252C_&usg=__BEaE4cl9snF4TT4kKLMjSPRI-50%3D
      Al Gore is, however old and grey, but one would not want to press that point.
      The scientists that opposes the consensus is independent, so retired and beyond reach of financial threats.
      They have time to sort out data.
      As soon as they retire they speak up.
      They do so brilliantly.
      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/09/21/welcome-to-australia-where-its-always-warmer-somewhere/
      Its good to know someone cares enough to sort out this mess of science, particularly the data.
      Climate scientists following the consensus, remind me of the doctor struggling with a diagnosis which may not be falsifiable, yet predict grave outcomes, but the patient fails to follow prediction and stays healthy.
      Al Gore is the Prophet who, in a counter intuitive manner from Biblical history, is actually listened to in his own times.
      He gives life to those in need of a faith that cannot be denied.
      His media appearances and film are Sacramental, in that they ‘give grace’ to those true believers who want to save the planet, of itself a noble cause.
      However it is the old and wiser who seek knowledge of itself, in the old scientific culture.
      That was where scientific research at universities was seen as an end in itself.
      Looked at dispassionately, CO2 science ‘needs more work’.
      The old and grey are prepared to do this holistically and humbly.
      ‘We don’t think we know the answers’.
      CO2 climate control with accelerated warming is a hypothesis in search of validation.
      The Al Gore narrative is like a sacrament in search of a theology.
      It remains a theory in search of a science that is falsifiable.
      As such it has entered the realm of revealed truth.

  18. It is amazing how racist “progressives” are. Then again, I don’t know why I’m surprised. Progressives also stood behind another scientific “theory” that was “proven” through scientific consensus 100 years ago. Fortunately, not-so-progressive forces finally pushed eugenics into the dustbin of history.

    • A foundational principle of modern Progressivism is separatism; whether that “separateness” is race, income, class, sex, your brand of corn flakes, etc.

      It is required that some sort of grievance be alleged with whatever group you can find/create in order to justify your existence. Otherwise, your existence is unnecessary and hence there’s no way for your to enrich yourself with the money of those who are “grieved”.

      • They do seem to want everyone on a plantation. I suspect they see themselves as, if not the plantation owner, at least the overseer riding around a horse with a bull whip.

  19. Call me what ever you want – Meh.
    When the narrative and bullshit doesn’t fit the observable trends and data, color this ol engineer skeptical.

  20. There is no end to the loonies screaming racism. It’s incredible how totally stupid and clueless these people are. When you drag in racism, you might as well put up a banner saying “I know I’m wrong and I’m desperate”.

  21. Leftists/Socialists divide people into little groups, which they want to control as their powerbase, and there always has to be a Bad Guy, in this case the White Man, they can flog, to make it look like they are fighting the tyranny of the majority group in society and defending the “little guy”.

    Keep in mind, the Leftists/Socialists *always* blame someone else, other than themselves, for all of society’s problems.

    When in doubt, the Left always reverts to racebaiting as their final answer.

  22. “Others, who have not enjoyed such an armchair ride in life, report far higher levels of risk aversion”

    Bloody hard armchair :-(

    • Absolutely.
      Thanks to this aptly named Gibbons (with apologies to our many simian friends), I now realise that I have spent my entire life riding in an armchair.

      And strange to say that my parents and grandparents and their parents all seem to have had an amazingly cushy life as well.

      Funny how much we all seem to have achieved whilst riding armchairs from the most humble beginnings through war, tempest, armchair -fighting not only well armed opponents (many of which were obviously by their race, themselves bloody pampered armchair riders) but ignorant savages into the bargain (without an armchair between them on which to ride).

      And my indolent ancestors seem to have had the gall to rise from crushing poverty to become doctors, scientists, engineers (gasp!!), teachers (lots of them!), NCOs and officers in army and navy. Without any silver spoons in sight. And despite coming (on my father’s side) from an Anglo-Indian background.

      Just goes to show what cushy lives they all had and how none of them became even tollerably rich apart from in intelligence, humanity and experience. And in the quiet knowledge that they had improved the lives and prospects of so many others.

      The Gibbons of this world no doubt have much to be ashamed of – their fathers, their Country, their parents’s beliefs. Would that they could all be back in those halcyon days, dancing round maypoles in the snow.

      Better than earning your crust writing drivel for a failing crapsheet like the Grauniad.

    • Poor little petals wouldn’t have a clue what a “hard ride” is.

      All most of the AGW alarmista have had is a soft armchair ride….

      ….. thanks mostly to “old white men”. !!

  23. “From my vantage point outside the glass doors, the sea of grey hair and balding pates had the appearance of a golf society event or an active retirement group …”(Gibbons).
    ===================================
    Over at Alarmism Central™ DesmogUK (“clearing the PR pollution”) your intrepid reporter Gibbons describes the Irish Climate Science Forum (ICSF) as “secretive” but managed to take this micro spy-camera snap from outside the glass doors, possible disguised as a hatcheck girl:

  24. Reductio Ad Absurdum

    It can’t be the fault of “White” people, since all “White” people have surely originated from Africa. Therefore, certainly the sins of the fathers have passed to the sons:

    “It is only in Europe that you will find large numbers of blondes and redheads, brunettes, pale skins and olive skins, blueeyed and green-eyed people living together in the same communities. Across the rest of the world people are almost uniformly darkhaired and dark-eyed.

    Why this should be remains unknown, and in particular how such mutations can have arisen so quickly since Europe was colonised by Africans just a few tens of thousands of years ago.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-511473/All-blue-eyed-people-traced-ancestor-lived-10-000-years-ago-near-Black-Sea.html#ixzz4tTMfk8W

    • “sy computing September 22, 2017 at 9:29 pm

      Reductio Ad Absurdum

      It can’t be the fault of “White” people, since all “White” people have surely originated from Africa.”

      mDNA suggests that is true.

      • Patrick:

        “mDNA suggests that is true.”

        I’m aware. I meant the absurd part to pertain to:

        “Therefore, certainly the sins of the fathers have passed to the sons:”

      • “sy computing September 22, 2017 at 11:08 pm”

        At last! Someone who knows what I am talking about. Thank you!. So few even consider this even with evidence.

      • At last! Someone who knows what I am talking about. Thank you!. So few even consider this even with evidence.

        I prefer cash or check…3.5% surcharge on credit cards.

        ;-)

    • I read an article yesterday that claimed blue eyes can be traced back to one individual. Supposedly, all blue-eyed people share the same one ancestor.

  25. The greatest generation are old, and largely white. They built a new world on the ashes of the old, partly destroyed by white people too, it should be said. But this writer John Gibbons, what has he done as a return on investment on the air he has breathed and the water he has drunk and the food he has eaten? I’ll bet he couldn’t hold a candle to the least of the greatest generation.

  26. It used to be that the elders in all tribes were the repository of history and knowledge, they were listened to and the tribal leaders came from their ranks. They were the data base of the tribes.

    (young=below 50)

    Now societies have become youth worshipping, with the consequent rashness and hubris. Look at North Korea, and the bizzare government in Greece presently, who act like a highscool committtee. Isn;t even Trump pretending at youth?

    • Yes, it used to be that a tribal member’s very survival depended on those, older, experieced members telling them what to do and what not to do.

      As for Trump, the people around him can’t keep up with him. He may not be young in years, but he sure doesn’t show it.

  27. Global Warming only proves there re many many very stupid people in the World. Now why doesn’t that surprise me?

    • “Global Warming only proves there are many, many very stupid people in the World.”

      Sadly, I have to agree with you. There is a lot of misinformation floating around in too many people’s heads, and they apparently don’t have the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff.

  28. That is funny : “Climate deniers want to protect the status quo that made them rich” – so climate affirmers want to change status quo to become poor.

  29. I resent the idea of being called a climate denier. I am not a climate denier.
    Firstly it belittles victims of the Holocaust by rating a lack of faith in people’s work with clear cut evidence of being not of the standard an engineer would rate as minimally acceptable as being equally important as the death of millions of people and those doing it should feel total shame.
    Secondly I believe climate exists. I see evidence of it every day.
    Thirdly. What I do not believe in is the pronouncements of those charlatans who call themselves climate scientists. They call themselves scientists and since they call it science I have a right to demand external funding and verification of any aspect of their work before I believe it.
    As an amateur I have tried to measure temperatures and found that it is impossible to get accurate to one degree the temperature across even a relatively small garden. One major reason for the failing is that any passive enclosure now that we have air quality that was a dream in even pre industrial society solar effects on measurement is more extreme than it used to be especially in the presence of different ground characteristics. Even dried grass compared to green areas means we get nearly half a degree difference and gravel in one corner of the garden and concrete in the other result in reading changes depending on wind direction even though more than the stated distance from the measuring point in the standard requirement That far too many readings are taken in areas of now urban but originally rural locations is ignored by these sloppy so called scientists.
    Perhaps it is just that the old have learnt not to trust blindly and require successful prediction as the only real reason for trusting a soothsayer or doom monger who demands faith not enquiry into the basis of their predictions.

    • Never mind an accurate temperature in a garden. I have two thermometers in my lounge. When in the same place, they read the same temperature, When they are separated they are different by up to a degree C.

      SteveT

  30. La inteligencia,la educación,el conocimiento,el respeto,la cultura,la honradez,el amor,el perdón,la caridad,no depende si eres blanco o negro,si eres rico o pobre,si eres joven o viejo;DEPENDE de que quieres ser o que quieres hacer con tu vida. El problema del Calentamiento Global es que fue explicado por alguien que no sabia de lo que se trataba,solo se imaginaba,suponía y termino explicando mal y lo “peor” es que “no quieren rectificar” no quieren aceptar que se equivocaron. Pero no todo esta mal,hay muchas cosas buenas y en lo que no se equivocaron es que el CALENTAMIENTO GLOBAL ES CIERTO. En mi Teoría demuestro que el Calentamiento Global – Cambio Climático se da cada fin de siglo 1980-2020 y lo causan 60% las ERUPCIONES VOLCÁNICAS, 30% SOL,10% HOMBRE. Se termina el Calentamiento Global (se esta terminando) y el CLIMA de este hermoso planeta se debe a 60% SOL, 20% ERUPCIONES VOLCÁNICAS, 20% HOMBRE. El hombre CONTAMINA y eso es algo que no se debe permitir.

    • Or translated said:

      Intelligence, education, knowledge, respect, culture, honesty, love, forgiveness, charity, does not depend on whether you are white or black, whether you are rich or poor, whether you are young or old; you want to be or what you want to do with your life. The problem of Global Warming is that it was explained by someone who did not know what it was, just imagined, supposed and ended up explaining badly and the “worst” is that “do not want to rectify” do not want to accept that they were wrong. But everything is not bad, there are many good things and what they were not wrong is that GLOBAL WARMING IS TRUE. In my theory I show that global warming – climate change occurs every end of the century 1980-2020 and is caused by 60% VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS, 30% SOL, 10% MAN. Global Warming is finished (it is ending) and the CLIMATE of this beautiful planet is due to 60% SOL, 20% VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS, 20% MAN. The man CONTAMINATES and that is something that should not be allowed.

      https://www.google.com/search?q=spanish+to+english&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

    • Not true. Many young people are giving up sciences if they question climate change as they know they cannot get the university grades required if they do not spout the climate change mantra. We are losing good engineers as well from this. Also they see that there is little money or prestige in the sciences as they have in general lost respect of many people I believe largely as a result of the antics of the climate fraternity.
      What is most striking tome is that people whose one skill is in making fiction appear true ie actors etc are the biggest and highest profile believers in man made climate change while engineers whose one skill is in applying science to the real world and making things work based on it are the greatest disbelievers. Surely that should tell us something about the nature of this particular field of science.

  31. Is this debate coming down to a tussle between technically qualified people, like engineers, who have some idea what is going on, and arts graduates, such as journalists, who have none?

    • Yes and who has the ear of the public? The Guardian does not even join in the press complaints procedure so it cannot be touched for its racist and ageist articles. It can spread its message to hundreds of thousands while we get a few hundred if we are lucky.

    • Is this debate coming down to a tussle between technically qualified people, like engineers, who have some idea what is going on, and arts graduates, such as journalists, who have none?

      Oh? Arts graduates are morons eh?

      Mr. Hill I submit to you I will *destroy* the theory of AGW with my BA: Philosophy quicker and more efficiently than you will do with your BS:MSc:PhD[Whatever] and I will do it with the words of the IPCC itself.

      And you?

      • Philosophy is not Arts.

        Its even cooler than fizzix. That’s why they have Metterfizzix. That like – Fizzix, that goes up to eleven!

      • sy, you have touched on the reason technically qualified people fail to get their points across. The selling of climate change alarmism is just that, selling. Sales 101 teaches you that most people make decisions based on emotions and “what’s in it for me”. Climate change alarmism is clearly based on emotional fear and the desire to appear intelligent and concerned about the future world. Facts just get in the way. Look at all the emotional appeals used by organizations looking for funding: pictures of dirty, hungry children living in shacks; pictures of animals in small cages looking at you with sad eyes; pictures of people with cancer and every other disease looking helpless. All these are intended to entice you to send money. Sales 101 is alive and well in the climate change alarmists corner.

      • Leo:

        “Its even cooler than fizzix. That’s why they have Metterfizzix. That like – Fizzix, that goes up to eleven!”

        Nah dude twelve!

        It’s like, “Whoa”, that Metterfizzix of Fizzix…what do they call that…”Stringery Theoretically” or whatever…who needs angels, demons, gods and flying dragons!

      • Tom:

        “The selling of climate change alarmism is just that, selling.”

        I hadn’t looked at it from the aspect of a Sales pitch, but I can see where you might make that point.

        I look at it from a logical perspective. I don’t understand why this shouldn’t be enough to reject the theory outright as pure speculation:

        “In sum, a strategy must recognise what is possible. In climate research and modelling, we should recognise that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible. The most we can expect to achieve is the prediction of the probability distribution of the system’s future possible states by the generation of ensembles of model solutions. This reduces climate change to the discernment of significant differences in the statistics of such ensembles. The generation of such model ensembles will require the dedication of greatly increased computer resources and the application of new methods of model diagnosis. Addressing adequately the statistical nature of climate is computationally intensive, but such statistical information is essential.”

        http://ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg1/505.htm

        No one needs a STEM degree to understand the above invalidates the proposition of AGW. I don’t need to do any lab experiments. I don’t need to “understand” complex mathematics, physics, climate science, etc.

        All I need to do is look at the “Bible” of AGW and notice it contradicts everything they propose to be true.

  32. John Gibbons has declared his hatred against defined groups of people, his motivations and decided to provide them for distribution in a newspaper. And Guardian has decided to disseminate them.

    Difficult to find a clearer cut case for a court to lift “presumption of innocence” and hold them accountable for inciting race crimes.

    • Only after slavery was made economically unnecessary by white men who mined coal and built machines that made heavy manual labour no longer economically a mainstay of society.

      • Plenty of white slaves of course. ‘To the shores of Tripoli;’

        Michael Greenwood (1731-1812), a Faversham man enslaved overseas before being ransomed by Britain, is remembered by a plaque at 89 Abbey Street. Greenwood, after being press-ganged in Faversham’s Market Place in 1748, was serving in HMS Lichfield when she was wrecked off Morocco in 1758. He and other survivors were enslaved by the Moors for 17 months until ransomed by Britain. Greenwood kept a captivity diary, now in the possession of descendants in Queensland, Australia. After returning to Faversham, he lived at 89 Abbey Street and worked as an oyster dredger.

        http://www.faversham.org/history/wall_plaques_-_people/michael_greenwood.aspx

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade

        Wiki willl have to do as a reference for now, plenty more to look up for those interested.

  33. what is it with the progressive left’s hatred of old people

    The guardian wrote that old people stole young people’s future re the Brexit vote.

    Progressive liberalism is a cancer in society that needs to be snuffed out

    • “what is it with the progressive left’s hatred of old people”

      I suspect in the mind of the “Regressive”, the aged take valuable resources away from the young, i.e., tax money. And if not tax money, then inherited money.

      I personally know a very wealthy Leftist cattle rancher in TX that was charged with caring for his elderly mother suffering from Alzheimer’s.

      He called her an “Albatross across his neck” because she cost him a significant portion of his inheritance money to care for her.

      He also complained of high taxes. And this from a Progressive Leftist, who should rather be more than willing to share from his great ability to each according to his need!!

      Hypocrites.

      • Yes progressives forget who built the soft lives they enjoy, the old.

        I suggest we conscript progressives to go fight ISIS, without air support or tanks.

    • Leftists divide people in under-dog identities and major identities. Major identities may not not complain, i.e. as a white male you may not complain, according to them, if you are being insulted, for example. Males or Whites are not a real majority, but considered one because some places like western fire departments consist of them. Nearsighted is that, but progressivism is a Western thing anyway.

      You could complain as a homosexual, even if you were White and Male. However you may not use those identities, but the basis of your trouble may only be the sexual identity.

      Progressives see this kind of sexism and racism, identityism, valid and proper, if not even something to strive for. That racism is racism whatever the race of racist and the target of racism, just is not in their dictionary. If you point it out from a dictionary for real, they’ll just say the dictionary was written by a White Male, which not necessarily is true but is a part of their world-view.

      Equality of gender means putting women ahead even when it is chrystal clear that equality means all are treated equally.

      One of the worst of these is that Germans are supposed to carry more guilt on what Naczis did, and males are supposed to give a head start for women just because pre WWII society was very inequal (and not only against women). A real liberal does not require an identity group member to take guilt on the deeds of the other in the identity group. Like, no liberal requires Muslims to carry the guilt on the prophet number uno marrying a child. No liberal requires that, but many progressives want that White try more as a group. Progressives require only that Whites and Males and Christiams take responsibility over the deeds of other Whites and Males, and Christins. They have a word for this, I guess, because it is an integral part of their leftist agenda. And it is not racism and sexism, but something like the necessary war against patriarchy, or antihegemonial fight, or something like.

      Progressivism stinks on aggression, elitism, and virtue-signalling.

      • In the mind of a leftist, the daughter of a leading black surgeon is deserving of help. While the son of a white coal miner needs to be held back.
        All in the name of equality.

  34. I loved this
    And there is an aspect the Guardian has not dared to point: It is not just Old school Scientists who are sceptics. Anyone old enough, even and old grandmother like me, can see clearly that the “climate alarmists” want to make us pay for still being alive, and having to be fed, and housed, and warmed. This especially, as we, old people tend to feel the cold , more than the young.
    The young would like to strip us of our right to vote, of our money, of our homes… They think they will be better off without us. And most of the tax measures they want to have in place, are going to be hardest for us old people. They do not understand that, with a bit of luck , they too shall end up being old, and feeling cold…

    Thank You All very much for this entry.

    • The young would like to strip us of our right to vote, of our money, of our homes… They think they will be better off without us.

      Sadly it would seem you have spoken truly.

      I can only *hope* with all my heart that such an evil, dastardly, and immoral regard of those with hoary head will *not* overtake the American populace.

      Matthew 15:4
      For God said: ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’

      Matthew 19:19
      “honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.”

      Leviticus 19:32
      “‘You shall rise up before the grayheaded and honor the aged, and you shall revere your God; I am the LORD.”

  35. Gentry bigotry. Hatred of the elderly. “All blacks are …” is supposed to be offensive, but “all white people are…” and “all old white people are…” is completely okay. Got it.

    • Leftists tend to see people as members of groups, rather than as individuals.
      They also declare that anyone who isn’t a leftist, who does this is racist, sexist, whateverist.

  36. The entire edifice of modern life with science, democracy, rule of law, the vast increase in life expectancy, the feeding of billions who would otherwise has starved and sensitivity to the needs of those who are different was created over the past 500 years by white men, often when they were young.
    The authoritarians amongst us, whether of so called left or right, are aware of the power that has accrued to old white men as a result of their past successes and want it for themselves. Thus they must first, somehow, discredit old white men and turn the rest of the populace against them.
    No lie or devious strategy is unacceptable to them since authoritarians always believe that their ends justify any means.

  37. Come to think of it, protecting inorganic material (e.g. outside air and fossils) from life is astronomical and new to human history.

    John Gibbons’ way of thinking is astronomical, but nothing new. He could start by studying the story behind the portrait of Adele Bloch-Bauer I in Neue Galerie, New York.

  38. Hey! – We have the Millennials and we have the Baby Boomers, but what do we call that lot between who created these terms (and write such articles)?

  39. Yeah, …right…. “old white guys….” like: Hippocrates, Euclid, Aristotle, Plato, Thomas Aquinas, Galileo, Michelangelo, da Vinci, Newton, Pasteur, Lavoisier, Bell, Tesla, Maxwell, Watt, Hahn, Einstein, Fermi, etc., etc.

    These “old white guys” were empiricists that advanced humanity and science by pursueing scientific truth, rather than pursuing grant money, fame, political agendas and political correctness. These “old white guys” adhered to the Scientific Method and understood that when empirical data refuted their hypotheses, they adjusted or abandoned their hypotheses, rather than adjusting the data to match their erroneous assumptions…

    CAGW has become a joke because those advocating this disconfirmed hypothesis fail to base their understanding on the scientific principles and methods “old white guys” established over two millennia ago…

    The reason for most of humanity’s problems is that “old-white-guy” empiricism has been replaced by Leftists’ empirical and moral relativism in pursuit of polical correctness…

      • linus pauling and his work on sickle cell anemia. Oh and DNA. Oh and organic chemistry. His name is rarely ever mentioned in science blogs.

      • Einstein came up with theories and are still argued today. Pauling actually changed science and medicine beyond the theory stage. Also was outspoken and possibly jailed for saying that radiation was harmful to living organisms. My opinion is that Einstein is highly overrated.
        I must admit that i am not completely familiar with everything that hes done. If it were that life changing i would be aware of it.

  40. As far as I can see the proponents of AGW are no spring chickens, and are very pale.
    Also they have been enriched by their position.
    Projection.

  41. A minor point, but I think painting any group of people in bigoted one-dimensional terms should be called a monotype, not a stereotype, but I know I’ll never win that one Ed.

    Now I have the ultimate proof that giving up 30 plus years of reading The Guardian was a necessary and smart move. I’m truly sorry the newspaper has been so pathetic that it could publish such idiotic views.

    Sadly none of the people running the Guardian seem to show any understanding of what they are destroying, let alone science or the fact that engineers and technically trained people might have good reasons for not going alongwith current fashions in climate religion.

    • The shrill racism, the naked extremism of this Guardian piece betrays the desperation of the proponents, clinging on to the splintered shards of their dying green faith. They hasten the final collapse of their group think bubble with this foolishness. My prediction is that in less than a decade you will feel able to resume your Guardian subscription.

      • I hope so Eric, but I suspect Leo is likely to be proved right.
        This may just be me being old, but I wasn’t over-impressed either with Cambridge University recently announcing that it was considering allowing students to take examinations using laptops and not having to put pen or pencil to paper. Apart from all the potential for, let’s put it kindly, conjuring up material not in the student’s head by using (internet enabled?) laptops,I just think there is a virtue in being made to actually set down answers in your own hand. A bit like having to understand the dimensions of a problem to interpret the correct answer if you use a laptop than punching some buttons on a calculator (I’m not advocating reverting to slide rules just making a point about understanding calculations and words).

      • You can disable the wi-fi routers in the area of the testing hall. However it won’t make much difference. With tera-bytes of storage, they can easily store every text book available on their laptops, and search it quickly.

    • Isn’t the Guardian that news outlet that decided to eschew ads for revenue, and wants your subscription money to support it? I only occasionally go there, because most of their editorials are tripe, and frequently bereft of real-world facts, and I certainly have no intention of financially supporting them

  42. Strange, when I read John Gibbons, it would almost seem as he was making the bizarre case that gender and ethnicity would be a factor in the level of fear and worries, or even distrust and resentment of people. In that case, even if he was right, he’d qualify as a fairly serious bigot. Not to mention that he links a color (white) and age (old) to having some inherently dysfunctional mindset, which is by definition discrimination, to write about it so specifically. Unbelievable ironic this stuff is being published while it’s undermining its moral premise. And of course, there’s always one or two social studies which can serve as quasi-academical justification. Probably quoted out of context as the conclusions of such studies are generally rather tentative and not meant to be used by journalists. Or at least, one would presume.

  43. I am a 63 yr mechanical engineer by training. I am not bald and I am not gray and I really hope I meet Mr. Gibbons one day so we can compare notes about our relative value to the world. He is not an author, real authors don’t write trash like that. Childish critiques like that do him no favors and confirm to me that the people of words really are no more use to the world than used car salesmen and catwalk models. Desperate.

    • We have racism, genderism, hairism, and ageism, but Gibbons makes it as far as engineerism – enginerophobia? What I’m not surprised on, people who are leftards and write to newspapers do have a fracking problem with nerds, i.e. professionals of hard sciences, to the extent that they easily give up when faced a problem with numbers. They say mathematics is hard and tend to think people who can calculate are retarded socially if not completely.

      Climate change topics are all topics with a great deal of numbers. See the problem?

  44. Just another furious strand of the Guardians tried n tested alarmist strategy to demonise ‘den*ers’ at every turn. Attack, isolate, undermine and all that. Isn’t it odd how ‘settled’ science needs aiding and abetting with such nefariously dark arts when all they actually need is evidence?

  45. Here in New Zealand our major ? newspaper The New Zealand Herald has degenerated into a Marxist rag with pathetic writing like this and the journalists just love climate change and scare stories and a lot of columns are wired from overseas . I canceled my subscription as it was like reading something out of a science fiction thriller ..We have the same PC rubbish and we are not allowed to criticize any one except if they are white middle aged males .I mix with a large number of people of different ethnic origins and I like to point out to them a peanuts cartoon .A little black boy was talking to a little white boy and the black boy said “I like being black” and then the white boy says “I like being white” so the black boy says “you’re racist “

  46. Old people remember when the saying “They’d tax the air we breathe if they could” was a joke. . .

      • Nerves will run out sooner. Taxes may stand only when people accept them by voting tax-raisers like Greenies. I’m seeing AfD in Germany as proof of that people have had enough of Greenies.

  47. I notice the glaring omission in this mature-white phobic article – where are all those non-white younger folks in all this? The groups that seems totally oblivious to the entire issue are the young non-White minorities. In point of fact, the only group that can be considered enthusiastic about global warming are the young, White, college crowd, who are also enthusiastic about
    all kinds of strange things, censorship of opinion being but one. These are the true denialists – they deny the fact that , for example, global warming, whatever the causes, has had zero effect on such things as cyclonic storms and floods and droughts. The reaction to the recent hurricanes would lead one to believe that they think that strong hurricanes never existed before global warming took over. How they manage to explain those 12 years of hurricane drought is an unreported issue. The problem with young folks is that they have little experience and therefore a very restricted perspective. Young folks always think that their generation is the greatest of all time. One could quite easily shred any such ideas about this generation by simply looking at the things they DON’T vocally oppose – BLM, and Antifa, for example. This is what Fascist behavior is all about.

  48. Santa Denial Is The Fault Of Old Wise People…(but it’s ok to lie once in awile to keep the mischievous kids in line).

    Quid Pro Quo

    • Al Gore’s sing along Christmas album 2017

      Santa got run over by a Tesla

      Frosty is melting

      I’m getting a carbon tax for xmas

      Green is good (duet with the grinch)

      Better Watch Out (Santa Claus is going to drown).

      • Those sound like fun, we should send our list to Paul Shanklin!

        Hark the Starving Polar Bears Cry

        The 12 Days of Warming

        Away in a Tesla

        All I Want for Christmas is My Two Wind Mills

        O Come All Ye Faithful ( … oh co-ome yee to Al Gore’s estate. … born the King of Warming … etc)

  49. I think it’s downright profound how alarmists use the same “logic” to blame old white people as they use to blame CO2.

  50. I have an alternative theory. Retired engineers and meteorologists are trained in physics, chemistry, math and meteorology. They are science literate and their many years of experience made them wise. They are not gullible to climate catastrophes.

  51. I couldnt agree more with your alternative explenation. And here I speak as one of the few “climate deniers” of my generation. Being in my 20’s I have experience first hand the transition. When I went through college they where already pretty insistant in the clamate change mantra. In almist every subject there was a climate change chapter, and in the test you has to get the “correct” answear id you wanted to pass.
    It has only gotten worse in the last ten years.

  52. “… likely to favour protection of the current industrial capitalist order which has historically served them well”

    Is there a reason not to favor what has historically served well for everyone?

    • Thomas, I guess he means as opposed to the agrarian socialist feudal model that has served everyone else so well ;)

  53. It’s worth noting how few sceptics remain on CiF these days. They’ve banned everyone else with alternate opinions so it’s become a bubble of climate doom. It used to be very entertaining but now, not so much. Their loss.

  54. Perhaps it’s time we dropped the term ‘denier’ and its related words, and used ‘opposing view’ instead.
    Denier, skeptic, alarmist, hotter/hottest, EVER – those are all appeals to the baser emotions that are used as a means of scaring the cracker crumbs out of people.
    It doesn’t work on me, because it’s been used and abused for such a long time now that the impact is gone. Why? Because if it’s a sunny day with a temperature of 85F in the shade, it’s a hot day. If it’s a sunny day with a temperature of 72F in the shade – not remotely hot.
    I think you can see where I’m going with this. The Warmians have been banging the drums loudly for quite some time, and still have not proved their point in any way that satisfies my need to know. Hysterics, hyperbole, and using pejoratives like ‘old white men’ just do not work on me, not now and not in the future, either.
    Not one of those people can answer this obvious question: Okay, we’ve had a longish warm period to advance civilization, so what are YOU going to do when it comes to an end?
    Trust me, everything I’ve dug into in geology, geophysics and paleontology (no, not a degree, just looking for accuracy) says that these Good Times are going to come to an end.
    I think they will be completely unprepared for it.

    • “Perhaps it’s time we dropped the term ‘denier’ and its related words, and used ‘opposing view’ instead.”

      “Contrarian” is a word I like, because it is neutral-ish.

  55. I’m investing in a sun bed and a wig in order to transform into a “Meatloaf” denier. (2 out of 3…)

  56. Maybe why so many who question the consensus are older is we’ve been around long enough to remember what the weather was like in “the old days” and notice that things ain’t all that different.
    Plus we haven’t been given the cash that the true believers get.

    James Bull

    • Good point, James Bull.

      Those who are a little older have seen these climate “changes” before, and we survived the doomsday calls, of Global Cooling and Global Warming and are thriving, while the youngsters are sweating blood about their future on Earth, because of the CAGW propaganda being spewed in every direction by people who don’t really know what they are talking about.

      But don’t count all the youngsters out. I have had several young people decide CAGW was not true, or had not been proven and they did so all on their own.

      One of these was a nine-year-old boy last year. Having never discussed CAGW with him, I was pleasantly surprised to realize that he understood what was going on and had not bought into it, although they are bombarded with this propagand on a frequent basis in school.

      Skepticism can’t be taught. You either question the status quo/current thinking, or you not. Some people can become skeptics but this follows being badly fooled by someone or something.

      There may be a lot of new skeptics around when all this CAGW BS has been shown to be Climate Hyperbole.

  57. What a brilliant journalistic idea. Combine an article decrying climate skepticism, while also using the popular ‘divide and separate the population’ meme – Double bonus points. A real money spinner.

  58. Gibbons is playing class warfare as it was in the old USSR. You don’t have to show proof when you create envy.

  59. COMPLAIN TO THE IPSO
    A comment in the article, this would be worth having more people do.
    If they received many complaints it would have a better effect.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/22/climate-deniers-protect-status-quo-that-made-them-rich#comment-105661747

    “I’ll be reporting you to the Independent Press Standards Organisation in violation of the Editors’ Code of Practice Article 12

    12. Discrimination
    i) The press must avoid prejudicial or pejorative reference to an individual’s, race, colour, religion, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation or to any physical or mental illness or disability.
    ii) Details of an individual’s race, colour, religion, gender identity, sexual orientation, physical or mental illness or disability must be avoided unless genuinely relevant to the story.”

    Or this could even be reported as a hate crime.

    Hate Crime and Crimes Against Older People
    http://cps.gov.uk/publications/equality/hate_crime/index.html

    “All crime is unacceptable but offences that are driven by hostility or hatred based on personal characteristics set a particular challenge to a civilised society. For the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) therefore, effectively addressing all forms of hate crime and crimes targeting older people remain a core commitment.”
    – Alison Saunders CB, Director of Public Prosecutions.

    Britain to treat internet hate crime as seriously as offline offences
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-internet-hatecrime/britain-to-treat-internet-hate-crime-as-seriously-as-offline-offences-idUKKCN1B10R8

    • Well, good. I’ll file a complaint with the Home Office (do they still have that?) against Gibbons and the Guardian for his prejudiced comments and the Guardian for supporting them, as I am and old white person, and I am NOT going away.

  60. Climate skepticism leads to baldness? Heaven forfend! My wife says the only thing she likes about me is that I still have a full head of hair. I’d better start bowing down to the climate Gods!

    • ‘I don’t advise a haircut, man. All hairdressers are in the employment of the government. Hair are your aerials. They pick up signals from the cosmos and transmit them directly into the brain. This may be the reason bald-headed men are uptight.’

  61. I have yet another theory: Retired scientists and engineers are no longer at risk of getting fired for calling their bosses on bullshit claims. They used them to make a living, and now they are going to use the stable base enabled by them to expose them for what they are.

  62. “Not all climate sceptics are white:” There is another odious social dynamic underlying all this. Having excluded (not so tacitly) this demographic from de facto “diversity”, it is perfectly acceptable to make гасiзт and hateful remarks about them.

    This group is identified with those who sparked the Age of Enlightenment, the industrial revolution and the polico-economic modern civilization and its attendant freedom and justice – all reviled now, belittled in the pall of political correctness-иеомагхisм and under attack and deconstruction.

    What of the younger generation of this етниiсiту? Half of it differentiate themselves by being self-loathing supporters of the ‘onslaught’ against the old order . Ironically, this group, unwittingly, along with its more cynically political, monied and powerful elders, assume the leadership role in planning the future destiny of the rest of “diversity”, the very term itself an invention of this leadership grouo group. An evolution of соlоиiаliзм and old fashioned гасiзм, anyone?

    Disclaimer: I’m one of these old guys who takes no credit for development of the “old” order. I simply am a beneficiary of it. Being a world traveler and amateur student of world history, neither do I subscribe to notions of sцрегiогiту of any groups of humanity, knowing that other groups created civilizations at a time when my group was hunting and gathering in the forest.

  63. 60 years ago, universities weren’t graduating black females in the sciences.

    It’s a shear perversity of the universe that in today’s affirmative action environment, the education offered to black females is of such poor quality they confuse politics with science, objective evidence with models.

    That the room was full of old white pates is a failure of contemporary education, not a failure of science.

    • 3 black ladies put man on the moon doncha know. They rewrite history before your very eyes and yet no one says anything becuzz raciss

  64. When one replaces reason and logic with bigotry, the argument is lost. From there onward, the only path available is a downward spiral of hatred, misery, and death.

      • Been there. Been a participant. Been called “batshit crazy”.
        Still no answers to the questions I asked.
        They weren’t hard. Maybe a bit out of context,
        What programs did Hansen use and what programs does Gavin currently to archive data?
        Hansen cooled the past. Any “warmist” or “lukewarmers” or any others deny that?
        How did he do that? What I brought up is a possible method. ( I doubt he poured over past paper records.)
        Gavin is “in charge of” the current records. Such a method could be used “realtime” to display what numbers/data can be found on the internet.
        So, what programs were/are used and what “test” were/are used to determine what makes it onto the internet?
        Simple answers could cure my “batshit craziness”.

        PS In defense of the one who called me and another that (and Fabulous gave a “+1” to), I’m not sure were commenting on the exactly the same thing.)

  65. We learned that it is OK to evaluate the evidence for ourselves, to reach our own conclusions.

    Also that when the evidence doesn’t conform to what we want it to look like we simply dismiss it as ‘fake’.

  66. The Nazis realised that to indoctrinate the population concentrate on the youth and control the media. The control of the educational institutions, the burning of heretic books , the elimination of opponents all are part of the same propagander strategy. The main resistance to the Nazis would’ve come from older white people as well.

  67. I have a BSEE, masters in mathematics, and three years towards a physical oceanography PhD. My armchair took me to Viet Nam, two industries that collapsed under me, a divorce, and financial ruin.

    I’m a retired old fart now, with a progressive son in law who thinks I am stupid and uninformed about climate science because I don’t (won’t) read the Boston Globe to learn about climate change.

    Priceless!

  68. So he would be against anti aging drugs (when I introduce them to the population) because eventually everyone will be old (but not white of course if I only sell these drugs to select parts of the population which I do not intend doing)?

  69. Click my name to see what an old, white, nearly bald, retired, licensed mechanical engineer who has been researching this subject for a decade has to say.

    In summary, CO2 has no significant effect on climate; water vapor does and has increased about 8% since 1960. The good news is the temperature increase is self-limiting because of increasing cloud cover. The bad news is humanity is in for increased precipitation related flooding.

    • Progressives are some of the most racist, sexist and ageist people on the planet. Whereas old-fashioned racists were/are pro-white, progressive racists are anti-white; and where old-fashioned sexists were pro-male, progressive sexists are anti-male.

      I don’t really know if there is such a thing as an “old-fashioned” ageist, but progressives are unapologetically ageist – as the Guardian article makes quite clear.

  70. The Guardian’s old-white-males sneer is not new. In the March 13, 2009 thread “Who makes up the IPCC?” a guest post by Steven Goddard at https://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/13/who-makes-up-the-ipcc/, he wrote:

    Suzanne Goldenberg recently complained in the UK Guardian about the ICCC (International Conference on Climate Change) global warming “deniers” :

    The 600 attendees (by the organisers’ count) are almost entirely white males, and many, if not most, are past retirement age. Only two women and one African-American man figure on the programme…

    I
    I found this thread by searching for “Guardian Chicago conference”. The search result mentioned that this thread is “Uncategorized.” At one point it was mentioned here that well over 1000 early threads have not been categorized. It would strengthen WUWT’s message if such threads wr categorized so they could be located by using the Categories search box. It’s amazing to me that no call for volunteers to do this categorizing has been issued, although many here are willing and able to do so, and although I’ve been grousing about this issue for at least four years.

    Anthony, or Mods, or other influentials here, please Do Something!

  71. It’s telling that the Guardian writer describes Prof Lindzen’s address as a “jeremiad” (quote “noted US climate contrarian, Richard Lindzen. His jeremiad against the “narrative of hysteria”) Lindzen doesn’t do jeremiads. But Guardian-reading climate alarmists most certainly do. A sad case of psychiatric projection.

    Also, I once managed to download a pdf of the slides for Lindzen’s London presentation. I don’t know if he said “narrative of hysteria” in the spoken part of his address, but I’ve just checked and found that neither of the words ‘narrative’ or ‘hysteria’ appear anywhere on the slides

  72. “Climate denial”, as in the denial of the ‘greenhouse effect’ and anthropogenic global warming, really DOES originate with a bunch of old white people: Sadi Carnot, William Thomson. Rudolf Clausius, James Maxwell, Ludwig Boltzmann, Willard Gibbs, Gustav Zeuner, and Johannes van der Waals.

  73. Excellent insight into the lack of critical and independent thinking by younger generations. I have 5 kids with the oldest being 30 and only one of them consistently engages in questioning common narratives. It’s very sad and when I try to discuss alternative views, they shut me down.

  74. Excellent insight into the lack of critical and independent thinking by younger generations. I have 5 kids with the oldest being 30 and only one of them consistently engages in questioning common narratives. It’s very sad and when I try to discuss alternative views, they shut me down.

  75. NASA says “Antarctic Sea Ice Reaches New Record Maximum”. It was also “old white people” who dreamed up the global warming scam in the first place. To me it is simple. I have come to distrust everything from politicians and the corporate media. I have never heard them shill for anything harder than global warming, or rather climate change or what ever they are spewing now. Fooled me most of my life but now I got the picture. If CNN says it and it furthers the globalist agenda I tend to believe the thousands of scientists who risk their careers to say it is baloney.

  76. For the group that has claimed over and over again that “The climate science is settled“, they sure just can’t stop trying to convince everyone of that fact. If it’s settled, why keep talking about it? If it’s settled, ignore these “old white guys” and move on. If it’s settled why does it matter what anyone said? If it’s settled why ask for more money and continue to study it?

    One important thing I learned in my life is that it never hurts to listen to the opposite point of view. There is a chance you may learn something. On the other side, if you never listen to what others have to say, you will not learn anything new and will only know what you already know.

Comments are closed.