Guest essay by Eric Worrall
British Conservative Politician Ian Duncan MEP is worried that when Britain Leaves the EU, the entire European Union green programme could collapse, because Britain won’t be around to pay for it.
Brexit could ‘derail’ EU attempts to fight climate change and reduce greenhouse gas emissions, say MEPs
Exclusive: European Carbon Trading Scheme (ETS) could lose £1.7bn worth of funding once Britain exits the trade bloc
Shehab Khan @shehabkhan Wednesday 8 February 2017 16:45 GMT
Brexit could “derail” the European Union’s attempts to combat climate change and reduce greenhouse gas emissions, according to British MEPs.
Britain’s decision to leave the trading bloc could have a detrimental impact on the European Carbon Trading Scheme (ETS), which is the flagship policy aimed at cutting carbon emissions across the continent.
The United Kingdom is committed to providing almost €2bn (£1.7bn) worth of funding for the scheme, without which it is not yet clear how the system will survive.
…
Ian Duncan MEP, who is the Conservatives’ European spokesman on energy and climate change and also the lead lawmaker on reforming the ETS, said there was a “serious risk” Brexit could stop the functioning of the scheme, leading to “disastrous” consequences.
“In order for ETS to work a number of funds were created to help Eastern European nations to address the challenges of modernising their Soviet-era energy generators and manufacturing companies.
“The UK is one of the major contributors to this fund and after it leaves the finance for this fund will not be there,” Mr Duncan told The Independent.
“Without it, there is a serious risk not only that the ETS stops functioning post-Brexit, but that the EU loses support for its climate change targets altogether. With Donald Trump in the White House, the consequences of this could be disastrous for global efforts to tackle climate change.”
…
I think these fears are well founded.
Some of those former Soviet bloc countries are strangely reluctant to abandon coal. For example energy hungry Poland, whose heavy industry based economy has surged on the back of cheap coal power which allows it to undercut other members of the European Union, for some reason doesn’t want to go back to being poor.
Without a deluge of British cash to ease the transition back to penury, it will be much more difficult to convince Polish politicians to look the other way as the European Union attempts to dismantle the crown jewel of Poland’s economy.
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It doesn’t need Britain’s help. It will collapse from its own weight and the social benefits of carbon.
Well I am sure that the non elected European Commission will already be calculating the estimated loss of revenue and adding it to the farcical 60 billion euros that they are already claiming Britain agrees to pay BEFORE they start negotiating.
It took the EU over 7 years to negotiate a simple trade agreement with Canada. In order to agree with Britain – everyone of the EU members has got to agree with every detail. So for example Spain will have to agree to lose all its fishing in British waters.
So there are two possible courses:
1. there is the “we leave in name only – pay the EU billions, give up fishing, agree to be bound by all EU decisions, agree to allow international companies to overturn UK law etc. etc.
2. There is the “we leave with no agreement” … except the absolute bare minimum – which might be a quid pro quo for a transitional arrangements such as (some) EU members allowed to stay in UK for UK people resident in EU allowed to stay in e.g. Spain.
For obvious reasons, we are not going to accept the first, so it is almost certain we will leave with virtually no long-term substantial agreements in place. And that will be purely down to the EU – and it is both why we are leaving and also what we have to accept when we leave.
As Ian Duncan Smith said, the question of EU residents could be sorted out with a five minute conversation before article 50 is implemented. But the EU is refusing to address a simple issue before Art. 50 that would likely alleviate a lot of fear amongst foreign residents.
As for leaving with just the bare minimum of an agreement, what must be remembered is that the UK isn’t sitting around twiddling its thumbs waiting for a decision from the mighty EU, we are doubtless talking to other countries outwith the EU.
If the EU drags its heels, as it usually does, on negotiations with the UK, we will be heading off into the distance whilst they are in limbo, infighting and backbiting. Their ivory tower, the bureaucratic structure they value so much, will be hung by its own petard.
Arguably, Brexit could be the best thing ever to happen to the EU as reform will be forced upon them in order to react quickly to changing political and financial conditions.
The figures being thrown about are to excite the legacy media who manage to totally miss RAL. There is always an overspend for each budget period (RAL) that is then spread out across the members. They will reasonably asking us to cover our share of the costs of the overspend accrued during our membership. There are pension liabilities too. And leaving will have costs for us to replace EU functions which was why we never wanted to use saving money as a reason for leaving since it would backfire. The same amount of money will be spent but we will direct how.
There is not enough time for the hugely complex deal to replicate how we trade with the EU and how our systems work in just 18 months. So we will be leaving without a deal by our choice since the sensible leave option of joining Efta and remaining in the EEA has been rejected by May & Co. Whether anything can be salvaged will depend on how amicable the EU wish to be once the plain horror of our exit crisis becomes clear to even the thickest of MPs.
EU Opposition to Climate Change to Collapse
=========
the headline seems to read backwards. Isn’t this what is being suggested?
EU Position on Climate Change to Collapse
Any nation unwilling to become poor for climate’s sake is unworthy. Come on, follow Ontario’s example.
Or even South Australia’s.
I hope you just forgot the sarc tag, by god, Ontario??? What a mess, the once proud leader in manufacturing in Canada , now a wasteland.
Haven’t you heard? Our “hydro” prices are going to go down by 25 percent. The people of Ontario are grovelling in gratitude to our fearless leaders.
They are basically borrowing money to fund this act of generosity and social responsibility. Our grandchildren will be happy to subsidize our green follies.
Fortunately, our grandchildren aren’t around yet so we can’t ask their opinions.
This in a province who’s electricity used to be 83 percent “carbon-free” and is now, after all the idiocy, 86 percent “carbon-free” (you have to look at delivered MWh and not installed MW because that’s where the “carbon” is actually produced).
Smart Rock: But… but they’re being saved from Global Warming, aren’t they? So they should be grateful anyway.
Ironic that one of the big lines from the CAGW crowd is ‘do it for our grandchildren.’
Of course, ‘for the children’ is already a big buzz line for pretty much any group asking for money and/or forcing expensive, intrusive regulation.
Take a look at what Kevin O’Leary has to say about the mess that Ontario is in.
What a shame.
🙂
How dare those Brits? Refusing to be trimmed for the benefit of Gang Green.
The UN/EU must be slipping.
John, that’s a good one “Gang Green”.
Hope you don’t mind if I borrow it at appropriate times and places.
Leonard,
Only if you pay me a royalty.
Might need to check with the Jets
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=gang+green+football+team&*
One can only hope!
Isn’t the term “Carbon Trading Scheme a bit blatant?
Maybe just use “scham” instead?
And if it is a “trading” scheme, why does it need external money input to make it work?
I’ve sometimes been tempted to buy one ton of ‘carbon’.
It’s not very expensive and the thought of chasing them up for deliver of my ‘goods’ would be worth it.
“Isn’t the term “Carbon Trading Scheme a bit blatant?”
I wondered about that myself. Apparently, they have no fear. Or maybe scheme means something different in Britain. The dictionary does give two interpretations of it. Scheme means to cheat people where I come from.
In vocabulary classes way back when, I learned it as a synonym for plan, but with a negative connotation. A plan where the end goal is to cheat or defraud.
But also look at “schematic”, which afaik is connotatively neutral and at least partially synonymous with “blueprint”.
It’s the kind of occurrence one can imagine Basil Fawlty describing tongue in cheek with the comment, “Oh what a terrible shame!”.
lol — yes. And then, he might try to cheer them up with a joke or two….
“Don’t — mention — the WAR!”
(youtube — “Fawlty Towers”)
🙂
The British sense of humour.
Hi, Ms. M., that was always my favorite one, i especially liked the high steppin’. If memory serves me, there were only half a dozen episodes of “fawlty towers”, but EVERYBODY seems to remember the show. My other fav was the one where basil thinks all the guests are having affairs with one another. (and the guests end up thinking basil is having a gay affair with manuel)…
Fonz, it never continued because John Cleese (Basil) fell out with his wife (Polly), sadly. I think he did a world tour called ‘the alimony tour’ after that to blatantly pay for his alimony. Gotta love that guy!
I have the set, but im not sure I recall the episode you describe. I’ll have to watch it again, I suppose 🙂
“Jer0me March 6, 2017 at 12:19 am”
No. Both came to the conclusion that any more than the initial 12 episodes would ruin the comedy. You look at how many “seasons” of various series there are and they get worse with every season.
Cleese (Real name Cheese) is a notoriously difficult person to work with.
Desperately politically incorrect.
I love it.
Of course, no one is allowed to forget the holocaust (and yes, I do believe it happened) but it’s now at the point that even the allies are forced to feel guilty about it.
Dear Janice,
A good clip indeed. I just couldn’t resist this piece of “writing” (again).
START OF LETTER
The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent events in Syria and have therefore raised their security level from “Miffed” to “Peeved.” Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to “Irritated” or even “A Bit Cross.” The English have not been “A Bit Cross” since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from “Tiresome” to “A Bloody Nuisance.” The last time the British issued a “Bloody Nuisance” warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.
The Scots have raised their threat level from “Pissed Off” to “Let’s get the Bastards.” They don’t have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.
The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from “Run” to “Hide.” The only two higher levels in France are “Collaborate” and “Surrender.” The rise was
precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France ‘s white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country’s military capability.
Italy has increased the alert level from “Shout Loudly and Excitedly” to “Elaborate Military Posturing.” Two more levels remain: “Ineffective Combat Operations” and “Change Sides.”
The Germans have increased their alert state from “Disdainful Arrogance” to “Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs.” They also have two higher levels: “Invade a Neighbour” and “Lose.”
Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels ..
The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.
Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from “No worries” to “She’ll be right, Mate.” Two more escalation levels remain: “Crikey! I think we’ll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!” and “The barbie is cancelled.” So far no situation has ever warranted use of the last final escalation level.
Regards,
John Cleese ,
British writer, actor and tall person
And as a final thought – Greece is collapsing, the Iranians are getting aggressive, and Rome is in disarray. Welcome back to 430 BC.
END OF LETTER
Regards,
WL
The other event that could do away with the EU carbon scheme is a South Australia type blackout. Given weather conditions and conventional plant downtime, most of western Europe could crash. If it happens close enough to the elections. . .
The Green movement is already in trouble in Germany. They are cutting down old growth forests to build wind farms…that isn’t a sick joke.
Climate “Science” on Trial; Clear-Cutting Forests to Save the Trees
https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2017/02/25/climate-science-on-trial-clear-cutting-forests-to-save-the-trees/
Climate “Science” on Trial; How Does Ice Melt In Sub-Zero Temperatures?
https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2017/03/05/climate-science-on-trial-how-does-ice-melt-in-sub-zero-temperatures/
That nothing to the bird-murdering going in California due to ‘green’ projects slicing up endangered golden eagles as they travel on their routes that the gauntlet of giant bird choppers now blocks. At least the ‘streamers’ (yes, that is what they are called) that ignite as they pass over solar concentration plants provide entertainment from the mass murder of birds – all to satisfy the ‘Green’ investors who want to economically rape the taxpayer for subsidy funds. They are not the good guys, they are evil.
+1
About as well said as it can be. “Streamers,” that is an interesting way to describe a bird burned to death. I guess using euphemisms like that keep PETA off the backs of the green industries.
Perhaps we should set up webcams to watch them burn and stream it on the internet.
Bad press for the Greens, and not something they can deny happening if it is going out in real time.
co2islife – PETA is not about animals. It’s another leftist organization that preys on idiots who love animals and who don’t look into what PETA is actually doing.
@ur momisugly co2islife:
I posted the links to UAH LT and MT on the other thread. Did you get them OK?
You asked for the value of the SD for the data set.
UAH LT (Global) , start to finish:
mean = 0.02425
std. dev. = 0.2266
Thanks.
co2islife
March 5, 2017 at 6:45 pm
“The Green movement is already in trouble in Germany. They are cutting down old growth forests to build wind farms…that isn’t a sick joke.”
This has nothing to do with green. If there is a possibility to make business, humans will use it.
And, to be fair, they do not cut down old growth forests. There are single patches in commercional managed wooldlands.
Still I say it makes no sense.
But Solar and Wind renewables are so cheap, and virtually cost nothing to maintain and run, so why the squealing…as always…like collective stuck pigs whenever the notion of removing any slush funds to these ‘cheap and ever so reliable’ energy creators is raised.
The other point being that if this subsidy energy system falls over if the British take away the money tree then how come all the other players are so lacking in commitment to not put in the extra Euro and pounds.
Unless of course it is not all about the renewables but also about the money, and the authority and political clout, of dispensing it to all then right thinking types to further establish their power base.
Subs for the Buds.
And the goose wailing about this possible collapse of the scam is a …Conservative Poltician!!!
The Conservative Party of today is just one part of the left wing LibLabCon establishment. It has been taken over by lefty liberals and forms part of the elite Westminster bubble.
Politicians are OK when you put them on a democratic leash – the problem is that they want to escape and “be free” … and that essentially was what Europe (appeared) to offer them.
No True Scotsman.
This is a greed vs morality issue not a Left / Right thing.
A choice of candidates, but not of platforms. Just the way the left-liberals like it.
And the downside is……?
Elections coming soon to an EU neighbor near you. Going to be interesting. Is the tide about to turn for the EU? We can only hope that turns out to be the case.
Getting out from unelected committees is always a good thing.
Everything about Brexit is good.
Not quite. My pension is in pounds but I live in a US$-linked place so I have lost about 20% of my income. That is not good.
Consider it a Cost of Freedom.
There is a lot of argument about whether we pay into the EU £8 billion or £14 billion per year, rebates etc la la la. Then every couple of days recently there are all these other costs that keep cropping up like this £1.7 billion. The other day there was a £2.4 billion that we paid into something or other. These payments are over and above the 8 or 14 billions membership fee. Then the fish they are stealing from our waters where they are fishing 60% of our catch and 90% of the fish we consume are imported from outside Europe.
When the EU says that we have to pay in £60 billion for the next two years for things committed to it is starting to sound like it is about right. We are paying into the EU about £30 billion a year. Not just membership fees less rebate but all these other added extras.
It is an effing joke. We are being milked dry.
Some of that money comes back, but I’m not sure hiw much. It’s not zero, however, as your argument implies.
None of it should have left in the first place.
Every country should be looking to its own interests first.
One you have no homeless, no people dying needlessly for lack of affordable health care, and no poverty, then you look to help others.
To do anything else as an elected member of government is to fail at your appointed task.
We pay roughly 50bn to the EUSSR annually. They give us back some of our own money (around 20bn), with the proviso that they decide what it gets spent on. Oh yeah, and it must have a sign saying that it “was built/made/repaired/etc by the EU.
Sounds like it is time for a hard unilateral break. Setup checkpoints at the tunnel, and tell them to F-off!
Didn’t someone say that “climate change” actually caused Brexit? Just like it “caused” ISIS?
That evil co2 molecule.. it’s responsible for everything!
Do you think that Nox is becoming the New Co2 ?
That made me laugh, huhne!
(sorry, couldn’t resist 😉
Inexpensive, reliable, and plentiful energy empowers the poor of the world most of all.
Let’s focus on those criteria.
Brexit may help the Polish economy. The country actually needs its workers back. Who knew? link
The people in Poland didn’t survive this long by being stupid . The payor countries
in their hearts know its a giant con job and so does the UN but so far none want to be the first to be sentenced to eternal politically incorrect damnation . Once it starts it will be a Hindenburg . Trump can save the USA hundreds of $Billions and right now they need a minimum of $54 billion just to start getting the military back to pre Obama starvation .
One executive order and the con- game unravels . Just do it .
you’re quite right. The EU grows by wrecking the economies on its borders so that they face long term economic decline or joining the EU empire. This is because if all your main trading partners are in the EU you are at a severe disadvantage as a small nation outside.
However… if a big nation like the UK leaves … this gives anyone outside the EU a potential competitive advantage trading with the UK. And yes, if the UK flourishes, as it looks likely to do, then it will encourage other countries to exit and start trading with the UK.
That is why EU leaders have repeatedly said: “Britain mustn’t be better off outside the EU than inside” … it’s in effect a political dogma of the EU … destroy those outside and force them to join. Fortunately the UK is big enough and stubborn enough to go it on our own.
“Trump can save the USA hundreds of $Billions and right now they need a minimum of $54 billion just to start getting the military back to pre Obama starvation .”
I heard a retired general, General Keane, that I respect very much say over the weekend that to get the U.S. military back up to where we need it will require an expenditure of about $100 billion per year for the next four years.
I expect the final figure will be closer to $100 billion than $54 billion. McCain is already saying it needs to be higher. But, on the other hand, Trump has proven to be able to talk the price down on some government items in the past, so maybe he can make $54 billion do the same amount of work that $100 billion can do. It will be interesting to see what they do.
He could make reasonable requests to other countries to help fund the US Navy. After all, they’ve benefited from American warships policing the seas for decades. Piracy and privateering didn’t end with the age of sail.
Oh, boy, Eric Worrall — LOVE hearing about Brexit! 🙂
So much so that I am going to post:
this
The Gathering Storm — Marlborough scene
(youtube)
We shall defend our island….
and this
Go, United Kingdom, gooooo! #(:))
Rule, Britannia!
(youtube)
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves!!!
And, oh, what a great gallery of witnesses cheers you on!
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/11/20/article-1229643-074D175C000005DC-589_468x293.jpg
Go get ’em, you ruddy Britons! We didn’t fight ol’ ‘itlr an’ ‘is gang to ‘and over the kingdom to Merkel and her lot!
Unfortunately, Heath, a Tory, committed the UK to EU slavery in 1973.
For which he deserves eternal damnation. He only had a mandate from his own government to negotiate, but signed us up anyway.
Exactly CORRECT.
This little video explains how the bastards started the evil (EU) project …
https://youtu.be/7Nf5KeC4dAs
Those were the days!
Janice, where the problems started, the chartering of the Bank of England.
Book: Pawns in the Game, by William Guy Carr.
Slated as anti-semitic, it’s actually anti-Khazar.
John Doran.
“jdseanjd March 6, 2017 at 12:54 am
Janice, where the problems started, the chartering of the Bank of England.”
Good point. The very start of the modern banking system of interest bearing debt, no wealth creation other than for those in the system.
Without interest, there are no loans. Without loans, there is no economy.
Granted, MarkW. But the BOE 1694 Charter authorised Fractional Reserve Lending. If a bank has £100 in its vaults it can lend out £1,000 & charge interest on the lot. @5%, that’s £50 the first year, half its original stake. They’re lending out money which doesn’t exist, & that’s fraud. Think of a young couple getting a mortgage: a lifetime of slavery to debt created out of thin air. It’s so immoral, it’s untrue.
Read also: The Creature from Jekyll Island, by G. Edward Griffin. His newsletter: needtoknow.news
3.5 hr youtube video: Bill Still Money Masters
Best, JD.
Sends shivers down the spine and the hairs on my neck stand up.
And they can’t figure out that this just one reason brexit happened?
I remember someone observing that it took a lot of rich people to keep Mahatma Ghandi living in poverty. With the “deluge of British cash [required] to ease the [European] transition back to penury,” it seems the EU has embraced the same cash-flow transcendentalism.
Sarojini Naidu: “The world will never know how much it costs us to keep Gandhi poor”.
=========
H/t Robert Trumbull. Robert Stimpson, the only journalist eyewitness to Gandhi’s assassination, had gone to Birla House that day looking for a lost belt, which hadn’t been lost at all.
=================
Tell him not to worry,
all the “immigrants” from the middle east will gladly pay for climate change 😉
Cheers
Roger
http://www.rogerfromnewzealand.wordpress.com
And now after so many years, just as UK BREXITs, a memorial to those who died defending – some outdated abstract concept once known as democracy.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4282556/D-Day-memorial-British-saviours-Brexit.html
Hurray! The sooner the better.