Guest essay by Eric Worrall
While Anthony was setting up his exhibit with Willis at the AGU convention, in another part of the conference, Governor Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown has vowed to launch his own satellites, if Trump switches off NASA satellite climate data collection.
California governor: ‘If Trump turns off the satellites, California will launch its own damn satellite’
California Gov. Jerry Brown gave a fiery speech on climate change policy on Wednesday, during which he said, “If Trump turns off the satellites, California will launch its own damn satellite,”according to The Los Angeles Times.
Brown was speaking at the 2016 meeting of the American Geophysical Union, a prominent body of scientists who study Earth and space.
In November, a top adviser to President-elect Donald Trump suggested the incoming administration would eliminate NASA’s earth science programs.
That would mean failing to launch, shutting down, or turning over the suite of satellites that provide the trove of data NASA releases about the Earth and its land, oceans, and air. That data set is critical for tracking hurricanes, coastal erosion, glacial melting, land use, wildfires, and even the approach of solar storms. Scientists across disciplines — and the world — have since told Business Insider that such a move would hurt their ability to do research.
The AGU meeting, not normally a hothouse of news-making political dissent, this year has been the site of public protests and appeals to Trump not to cut back or defund climate research.
I’ve got no problem with a few additional climate satellites. A few state based satellite launches and space missions could be an exciting new addition to America’s space efforts, and would be far more productive use of taxpayer’s money than funding useless wind turbines.
Addendum by Anthony:
Here is Brown at AGU:
Given Brown’s track records on big projects, such as the ill-fated bullet train to nowhere and his idea for water tunnels under the California Delta, the chances of him actually starting his own space program are pretty slim, even if he demands it. That, and all this saber rattling is nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction to a psychotic episode by Eric Holthaus in the Washington Post:
Readers may recall he is the same guy who vowed to have a vasectomy to save the planet, and to never fly again, then went ahead and had a child anyway, then later lectured us about family size. Holthaus is nothing more than a clickbait generator.
Right outside of where Brown was speaking at AGU16, other heads were exploding on the street as this was being pitched to AGU attendees.
Class act, these people.
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More fake news, and this time with a straw man slant
Yes, accentuated by a picture of a smokestack that is belching nothing but steam (it dissipates completely within the picture frame). These idiots don’t know enough to avoid being exposed by their own misguided propaganda.
That’s usually the first true indication of stupidity….they are unaware that they are stupid.
Steam, like CO2 is a … “pollutant” … of great concern, because water is a “greenhouse gas”. (^_^)
Oxygen produced by plants is also a … “pollutant” … (per my rant about this evil gas in another post – rust damage, free-radical damage, etc. on a mass scale heretofore unknown).
We refuse to accept a fake America.
Eric Holthaus’ suggestion to “preserve federal climate data” is of course missing an asterisk, where the subsequent note would clarify that the data will be preserved, but never subject to disclosure under FOIA requests made by critics. After all, “We have 25 or so years invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it?”
Credit where it’s due, he did not use the typical stopped down shot taken against the setting sun to make the condensing steam look like “dirty CO2”. We don’t know what that stack is connected too but there is a fair chance that there is combustion products in there too.
Most things that steam need to produce CO2 to do it.
RockyR,
The real irony of today’s fake news meme intersection with Russian interference in the election is that it is the Left/Progressive side in the US that peddles half-truths and propaganda deceptions. While if anything, the Russia-Wikileaks release of DNC and Podesta emails exposed the truth of how the Progressives, Democrats, and their media lap dogs operated to the American public.
The correct scientific term is EVAPORATES. Real honest smoke will dissipate but it will not EVAPORATE at atmospheric temperatures.
G
It looks to be a forced draft cooling tower, not a smoke stack. Still condensed water vapor however. I used to tell my grandchildren, when very small, that such towers were cloud making machines.
The photograph shows the coal fired Merrimack Station in Bow, New Hampshire.
See https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2015/03/12/utility-sell-power-plants-save-customers/zjiuEQi6qCE6FILrmR1RvO/story.html
@ur momisugly Robert Kernodle, Would love to read your oxygen as a pollutant rant but can’t seem to find it. Could you perhaps post a link?
Regarding the sign: The voters did reject a FASCIEST America when they rejected Clinton.
So, the whole thing is already at the Fascist/Hitler stage… This is the bottom of the barrel. Good News, as President Trump is bound to exceed expectations.
It’s the exact opposite of what happened when President Obama was elected. He was the Great Hope. All was possible. In the end, this Democrat was a disappointment and had to resort to undemocratically circumventing Congress through abusive regulations to try to accomplish his agenda.
Self sterilisation of these guys is a great idea. I support it!
Cheers
Roger
http://www.rogerfromnewzealand.wordpress.com
Hey earth to JB, you are about termed out buddy, so you better get cracking with your satellites. I suggest you employ Elong Must to put them up.
He’s very good at doing stuff and making tons of money doing it.
How he manages to operate so profitably is something even The Donald is not that good at.
G
Brown doesn’t need satellites for data or anything else…his mind is made up no matter what the overhead assets ping back to us Gaia destroying units down below. And I’m all for preservation of raw data, before it is fed into the Dr Seuss Fix-It Machine that CoolsDownPast and HeatsUpPresent. Keep up the good work, Anthony.
I suspect that the NASA unit in Trump’s crosshairs is GISS, the operator of the most egregious “Dr. Seuss Fix-it Machine”.
I have great difficulty with the concept of continuing to “adjust” bad near-surface data, rather than fixing the system and collecting good data.
Seems to me I saw reference to a “climate reference network of 50 stations sited outside metro areas”, that were selected for being far from development (so they don’t need “adjusting”). They already are reporting, but since they aren’t showing “warming”, they aren’t reported to the public. Like the sat data, they don’t get mentioned since they don’t fit the “narrative”.
Actually, CRN is 100+ stations. but essentially US only.
It’s the satellite data that is the most reliable, as long as the “scientist” data-handlers are not allowed to alter the data once it is collected. Because the satellite observations disagree with land-based readings, the data-handlers have decided that land-based readings, subject to the urban heat island effect and rural station dropout, are more reliable, having more excuses to make adjustments (always toward warming). As ocean temperature buoy data also does not agree with claims of warming, the data-handlers have opted for ocean data from ships monitoring their water intake or bucket readings; yeah, that’s so cutting edge and reliable. And sea level rise rates are no doing what they want, so they chose the gold standard sea level gauge to be in Hong Kong where the gauge is on landfill and known to be sinking of its own accord. Just as these fraudulent scientists cherry-pick and/or alter the data, they feel free to cherry-pick the sources of their data, keeping an eye on the goal, falsifying the record and satisfying their bosses.
Yep. It would be stupid to shut down the satellites, it’s GISS “Earth Science” that needs to be shut down and moved to NOAA. If Trump is smart he’ll do it like any other layoff in the private sector, the people at GISS will get notice they have some number of days to find a job then they’ll be terminated. At the same time NOAA will receive a budget to run the satellites and authority to hire staff.
Let NOAA separate the wheat from the chaff.
Actually, from what can see, quite a bit of the surface data “adjustments” happen at NOAA, …
…. before being handed to Gavin for further manipulation.
Well a quite large number of errant “weather” reporting stations; actually Temperature and humidity recording stations, are actually more accurately describes as “whether?” reporting stations.
They are situated at or on airport runways, with loads of concrete and steel, and jet plane blast furnaces; and the ONLY “whether?” report they are there for, is WHETHER it is safe for the pilot sitting on that runway to take off, with his plane loaded and balanced as he has it or is it too hot and humid, or he even might wonder if a 40 knot crosswind is safe for his plane on take off, or more particularly on landing.
If you are the pilot of a plane you do have options. Well you actually only have one optional choice. That is what they call ” The Takeoff “.
For the pilot of a plane the takeoff is completely optional; it’s his choice.
Everything else about flying a plane is mandatory; but you do always have the option to NOT take off.
Ergo; the ” Whether? ” reporting stations at airports.
G
Haven’t skeptics been doing this all along—preserving as much data as possible to verify adjustments?
Moonbeam can use any excess energy from the Ivanpah energy producing facility to launch his own damn satellites.
G
Brown doesn’t need the satellite data we have already. You need to take a look at the real message here.
Shutting down the satellites would be the best thing Trump could do to advance the AGW agenda since they don’t support the hypothesis. It’s data from RSS and UAH that challenged the fabrications coming out of GISS, which were all based on surface land/sea data adjustments.
If California actually did put up it’s own birds, you can be sure they’d support the AGW hypothesis, at least until CA underwent voter registration reform and Moonbeam was tossed on his butt. Californian’s aren’t likely to toss Moonbeam on the subject of “climate change”, but if he doesn’t actually do something about California’s failing water and energy policies he’ll be tarred and feathered.
3 thoughts:
– The single party rule in Sacramento since Arnie the RINO shows clearly on which side the despots exist.
– The Left thought they had the keys to unlimited power with a President Hillary Clinton and a Democrat senate
– The Left is resisting their loss of political power in Machivellian fashion.
It’s hardly surprising that Trump electors in the electoral college have been receiving death threats.
The most dangerous place in the world is between a leftist and free stuff.
MarkW,
I would phrase it slightly differrent, as in:
The most dangerous place in the world is between a leftist and
free stuffother people’s money.+10 to both versions!
California will only fix its problems after adopting proof of legal residence laws for voter registration. Until then, anyone and his dog will vote in California and they will continue to vote the gravy train party.
I doubt that will help. California is as Liberal as they come and they don’t need any help keeping that way.
There’s a huge difference between Liberal and Socialist Mark. Many Liberal Californian’s aren’t socialist. Some are. “Guest workers” vote socialist, not liberal.
“There’s a huge difference between Liberal and Socialist” …. not in California.
Bartlby, it’s only a matter of degree, and not a big one either.
To the Marks: A difference of degree? Not large?
Socialism, like Communism, depends on a central authority and controlled economy. No socialist system can exist with out both. A constitutional free market system doesn’t require a central committee. Free market capitalism operates under a distributed model. There are no examples of free market socialist or communist states. None at all. That’s a pretty big difference.
There are quite a few liberals that aren’t socialist/communist in California and in other places. Liberalism is completely inconsistent with socialism and always has been. Do either of you know what the word “liberal” even means?
I thought it was the satellites and ARGO buoys that proved the pause in the face of highly biased and inflated land-based stations and random ocean measurements from ships.
But, but, but measuring temperatures on rooftops, at airports and on “ships passing in the night” are how we’ve always done it.
I wondered about that too. Didn’t scientists go to using land temperatures and ship port temp measurements because the satellites and bouys turned on them?
Well, that would be the cynical view of course. Selection bias is a known problem in the sciences. The satellites and buoys weren’t agreeing with model output, so rather than fix the models they decided to fix the data. They could do that with the land based measures easier than the alternative so they did.
They even managed to make it sound all “scientificy” (which is like “bigly” only different) in the journal articles they wrote. It was amusing and tragic at the same time.
Right on!
The only thing I would add is that the unadjusted raw data should be as available as possible. That’s one thing Mr. Trump can help with. He can open the departments and let some light shine in. It would be a bad thing if he just closes things down and destroys all the data.
You don’t know Trump. Don’t believe the picture being put out by lefty weasels.
well, he’s not “anti-science” but there is a danger that useful projects will get hit in the shakedown.
Since the activist-scientists will be being as obstructive as possible, this may not all happen in the best and most logical fashion.
The left have not even begun to realise how much damage they have to done to science the enviro movement and the useful work the EPA used to do.
I believe, if I am not mistaken, (I was once before) that the ARGO buoys are the deep diving ones that go up and down like elevators taking data.
There are other oceanic buoys taking environmental data; not really climate, and not really weather.
They measure simultaneously the near surface (-1 meter) ocan water Temperature, and the near surface (+3 meter) oceanic air (lower troposphere) Temperature.
John Christy et al, reported (Jan 2001) that those Temperatures are not the same, and they aren’t correlated (why would they be, with winds, orders of magnitude higher than ocean currents).
That report based on about 20 years of gathering those data, essentially trashes ALL of the oceanic historical temperature records, taken from random water on ships, that assumes that water from an arbitrary depth is identical to the ocean air Temperatures.
Because they aren’t correlated, it is not possible to reconstruct oceanic lower tropospheric air Temperatures from those fake water Temperatures, to combine with the land measurements taken by all of those fake weather stations that the Anthony Watts project discombobulated.
So credible near surface measured lower tropo temperatures, only go back to about 1980 when those buoys were first put out there. That pretty much coincides with the start of the era of satellite measurements.
G
There is NO SUCH THING as climate data. There is weather data.
Climate is characterization of weather. Analysis of data, not data.
Listen to the ones you already have ya eejit.
Anyone arguing against ‘teh evidence’ [tm reg c lol] is using the satellite data to do so ya eejit.
Brown lived for a time in the warehouse district of Oakland while serving as mayor. Make that the unregulated fire hazard district.
There’s nothing wrong with NASA collecting satellite data. They should definitely do so, and then release the raw data for others to analyze, instead of adjusting it. Collect it, put it on a website, and be done with it.
Collect, hide, adjust? We can do without that part…
Nasa releases all their data.
Including every photograph of the moon that they’ve ever taken , with masking anything.
OH, look a flying pig.
Steve the point is they shouldn’t be collecting or analyzing it at all; that’s not their charter, it’s NOAA’s.
Mother, NASA also studies the data on my dime and duplicates what another agency is supposed to be assigned to do, also at my expense. No conservative wants the government to stop doing weather and climate research. We just want only Harry, not Tom, Dick, AND Harry to do it. NASA should provide the satellite and keep it going. NOAA should handle the raw weather data that comes from it. Why is this efficient form of government service so hard for you to understand?
There’s no real reason NASA should be involved in data collection. The should launch the satellites and consult on satellite design, perhaps even build the satellites.
Data collection and analysis belongs to the PI, who should be, in the case of weather and “climate” studies, operate under the aegis of NOAA. That’s what NOAA is for, regardless of what the know nothing climate activists say, NASA is not chartered to do terrestrial atmospheric or oceanic research.
NASA usually maintains the satellite communications networks.
MarkW,
At NOAA, we have our own satellite communications network – thanks.
I don’t know why everyone forgets that the USGS designed and launched the first Earth Resources Technology Satellite in 1972, and then maintained a fleet of subsequent Landsat satellites for decades, including processing the data and developing many of the algorithms for extracting information from multispectral imagery, BEFORE the responsibility was handed over to NASA. NASA has deviated far from its original Congressional charter, to the detriment of other organizations that can probably do a better job. One of the important differences is that NASA reports to the executive branch, while USGS and NOAA report to Congress. I think that makes NASA more susceptible to political influence when they are involved with a politically-charged research program.
I don’t think the Trump administration will have any objection to NASA launching budgeted satellites if they’re the most cost-effective means. It’s all the other global warming activism that seems out of character for an agency that began as a space hardware producer.
re:”And this guy [Brown]was not only elected, but re-elected…” C. Jones
California is a ONE PARTY state. It will be Democrats from Brown till the collapse thanks to three factors that transformed the demographics:
1) Illegal (non-white) immigration,
2) legal (non-white) immigration includes “refugees” virtually all non-white,
3) net exit of whites from California since the 1970s.
Limited government appears to be at best a fragile concept confined to white countries at rare times in some of their histories. That time has passed for California.
Dan Kurt
Those may be factors, but the main factor I think is that California has nice weather, advantageous geology and a strategic location, so naturally economic activity and smart, productive people flock here (I am in the belly of the beast), and wealth is thus created. However, wealth creation also draws government dependents who feed off of it: bureaucrats, activists, illegal immigrants, lifetime welfare recipients, etc etc etc. Add to that the current momentum and the demographics, and you’ve got an irreversible trend.
The good news is that any votes over 50% are wasted votes, and purely act as fodder for the snowflakes to cry about the popular vote in lost elections.
California effectively gave illegal immigrants the right to vote once they gave them drivers licenses, and the ability to register to vote if you had a drivers license. You are absolutely correct. California has become Venezuela. California will continue to go down hill until it literally is a cesspool of Progressive induced poverty and starvation.
Dan, I’ve lived in CA on and off since 1965 and I disagree. The “non-white” contingent has always been a significant part of California’s culture and economy. Spanish is California’s second language because it was originally a Spanish Territory through it’s proxy state of Mexico. It’s only recently that California became a member of the US in 1850.
Right now the problem California has can be boiled down to it’s absurd voter registration rules, of which there are none. Unless California adopts rules requiring voters to prove legal residence for registration, non-residents will be allowed to vote and the gravy train won’t stop.
California has a long heritage of guest/migrant workers in the ag industry, who provide valuable services to not only California, but also the rest of the US and the world by keeping food affordable. California taxpayers (land owners primarily) carry the burden of supporting that industry by funding schools attended by the children of migrant workers along with other public infrastructure like water, power, sewage, garbage, and medical care. To add insult to injury, California is a net creditor state with respect to Federal taxation, receiving less than 60% of the taxes it pays back from the Feds in program funding.
It’s an upside down economy and the solution is to restrict voting rights to legal residents. Allowing “guest workers” to vote is belling the cat.
Bartleby,
In the 1850s there were far too few Californios to resist the influx of Argonauts looking for gold. My parents moved from the Midwest to California in 1957. I mistakenly took Spanish in high school, thinking it would be helpful. I never had occasion to use it. However, by the 1970s, the Latino population started to grow substantially and by the 1980s, it was common to see Mexican flag bumper-stickers in East San Jose. One also often saw Mexican flags (sans an American flag) flying on poles in the Central Valley. There definitely has been a change in the ethnic composition of California in the last generation, largely fueled by illegal immigration and liberal apologists who have made them de facto citizens.
I think Dr Moonbeam doesn’t understand that satellites disprove the climate science he believes in. It is the adjusted land record the climate religionists use. Satellites show much less temperature change and in particular have not shown the heating in the region of the atmosphere that co2 must heat if it is working. So, climate “scientists” refuse to use the satellite data anyway. Dr Moonbeam should check with his climate fanatic friends to see if they even want him to launch satellites.
Logic..,
Exactly my reaction, does he not realize that his CAGW crowd rejects the satellite data because it shows less warming that the adjusted ground measurement data? That’s why they call him Moonbeam claiming sea level rise will flood airports well above sea level.
“I think Dr Moonbeam doesn’t understand that satellites disprove the climate science he believes in. It is the adjusted land record the climate religionists use.”
Instead of Brown threatening to launch his own satellites, he should threaten to create his own Hockeystick chart, if Trump deletes the ones being used now by NOAA/NASA.
Does anyone remember if anyone even on the fringes of the fringe of the Tea Party movement being this unhinged?
And this guy was not only elected, but re-elected…
Uh, no. The Tea Party were the Nice People, and proud of it.
At least until DC scorned them, then they started smoking crack, and became the alt-right.
Yeah, that was kinda my point: this guy is about as mainstream as California can get (which tells you something…). And he’s completely off his rocker. How the MSM can paint the TP as extreme, yet give this guy not only a pass, but a platform, is telling.
The Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) is strong with this one.
I would prefer that they eliminate the fiddling with the data rather than shutting down the data collection. Allow independent researchers to fiddle if necessary. Perhaps a few Universities could vie for which adjustments are the most appropriate and it could be transparently debated rather than under the table adjustments that corrupt the starting point.
I’ll give a call up to the tower.
If they stop fiddling with the data, what’s the point of GISS then? Just as well to Dis-GISS the whole outfit, keep the best elements and set up a new office; the UCDO, “Un-adulterated Climate Data Office”.
The Environmentalists are now on the run, and have completely bought in to their own propaganda that the Right are somehow suppressing science – while all the time it is the Environmentalists who are doing that.
Now is the time to hit them good and hard by funding some real hard science – that will put the global warming scam to bed once and for all…
Biased non-science nuts in high places are the real threat to the planet. That’s you Jerry and Michael.
WSJ
Disclosure of Climate Costs Is Urged
Companies should publish an assessment of the losses they could suffer through climate change as part of their routine financial statements, according to a panel of financial and business executives chaired by Michael Bloomberg.
What’s he going to do when Trump bans ugly old bald socialists
He’ll probably look elsewhere for more billions on rail projects to nowhere and take away from highways.
Trump will tax their tana leaves.
Move to Vermont?
They need it with their current population decline.
Tell Brown Trump has suggested giving California to Texas.
“We’ll just, well, (puff, puff, puff — STEEEEEEEAM comin’ out my nostrils!!!!!) we’ll just start our own damn California up……. up in the Yukon!”
lolololo
That guy is such a CLOWN.
Yeah, the clown who has lead the state to a budget surplus and one of the strongest economies in the country, and the 6th largest in the world. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/07/05/california-economy-gdp-6th-largest/
Typical Liberal Fake News! Like our Unemployment numbers have gone dramatically down while our labor participation rate is the lowest since the 70s. California is so in debt that the numbers on unsecured Pension liabilities rival the US National Debt! Kalifornians live in a Fantasy World of their own making!
…and the largest recipient of federal aid
The budget surplus is a result of “forgetting” to include liabilities, pensions in particular.
The “6th largest” is illusory, Chris.
(Source: http://www.breitbart.com/california/2016/12/14/rick-perry-secretary-energy-existential-threat-liberals-funding/ )
It’s not illusory, Janet, California’s GDP growth was double that of the rest of the US at 4.2%. http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-california-econ-growth-20160722-snap-story.html
sz939, please provide links to disprove my GDP statement. Rants don’t count.
Latitude said: “…and the largest recipient of federal aid”
Nope. Darn those facts! https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/
Now, you may mean in an absolute sense, irregardless of population. That may be true, but given that CA has a population 50% larger than #2 (Texas), that is what one would expect. On a per capita basis, that’s not remotely accurate.
“The budget surplus is a result of “forgetting” to include liabilities, pensions in particular.”
Can you point me to a state that adjusts their present day surplus/deficit taking into account all future pension and other obligations?
Hey Chris, more fun with numbers (“budget surplus”). While I don’t dispute the claim as to the size of the economy, a closer look makes things not so rosy as one might think from the headline ….. those pesky pension thingies for one example.
P.S. California has always been ranked high. In 1974 it claimed 9th. But that was based pretty much on California agriculture production. I wonder if that has changed (sarc).
Brown is a clown. There is NO credit to him for this ranking while there are many deficits that he owns.
While he was merely attending to the working day affairs of the state much of California was willing to abide by his eccentricities. Now he has definitely slipped off the slope again. CA’s budget cannot plan for the massive public sector retirement pensions and entitlements that it so blithely acquiesced to. Now Moonbeam wants to initiate a CA space program? Well a fair bit of the expertise is here, but none of the manufacturing base necessary. Where does he plan to build them? And, unless he plans on strictly polar launches, Vandenberg won’t fit the bill either. So, Brown wants CA to state a space program, but will have to “off-shore” the project to other states.
Oh yeah the CA voters are gonna be real happy about sending newly established tax revenues to Alabama, Louisiana, Florida…..
And the media mocks Trump for having knee-jerk responses….the hypocrisy…it burns…
A budget
surplus that is mostly smoke and mirrors, combined with a weak economic recovery that he had nothing to do with.
As to CA being the 6th largest economy, it was that decades before Brown became governor.
Typical leftist, taking credit for things he had nothing to do with.
Yes…. what about the $1 Trillion in unfunded pension debt? Right now, the budget “looks” good because the Dems/Progressive keep passing new taxes and fees on it’s citizens. We are the only state in the nation that pays a 60cents a gallon CO2 tax on gasoline. Continually raising taxes and fees only works over the short term. Eventually you kill the Golden goose. With the AGW scam going up in smoke, California’s supply of easy money to feed the Progressive appetite is rapidly drying up.. The piper is almost done with his song… and will be expecting to get his pay.
Chris
December 15, 2016 at 7:35 am
Latitude said: “…and the largest recipient of federal aid”
Nope. Darn those facts!
====
Chris are you a total loon….
You linked to states most dependent….I said recipient of
California gets the most federal aid of any other state
Chris,
Having lived in California from 1956 through 2004, (I made a conscious choice not to go back to California when I retired in 2009) I have some personal insight on its success story. People who got wealthy during the Gold Rush, like Leland Stanford, put their money to good use. Early legislators saw the importance of education and established the state-funded University of California system, once the admiration of even the Ivy League eastern schools. The computer revolution, and its attendant wealth creation, was a direct result of superlative higher education. California is blessed with abundant agricultural land, and after the people put in reservoirs, became the breadbasket of the country. However, the quality of the education is declining as it has been taken over by liberals, both in the classroom and in the legislature. Technology companies are leaving the state because of taxation. The population has swollen so much that homes are covering the formerly productive agricultural land, and water shortages are becoming common, along with environmentalist’s demands to remove dams.
I think that California is living on borrowed time, like someone spending their principal at a breakneck speed, instead of living on the dividends of their investments.
Chris
You failed to mention CA also has 37% of welfare recipients and the famous hi-speed train to, well, nowhere.
“… lead the state to a budget surplus…”
New South Wales used to have very good state budgets, often with surpluses under Labor. Then the Liberal party got in and discovered the trick. Borrowed money was put on the books as income. This skewed the books to look better than they were, all the while the debt was getting higher and higher.
Californians should probably call the auditors in.
It’s a good bet that Gov.Brown knows the costs of renewable energy storage. Solution: Get California power from outside the state and avoid any storage costs.
SEC Tehachapi Beacon GEN 4 FESS
Commissioned March 12, 2010
Flywheel – Wind storage
100 kW project paired with wind production.
Duration at Rated Power: 15 min.
California funded.
http://www.energystorageexchange.org/projects/1417
And:
Tehachapi Wind Energy Storage Project – Southern California Edison
Commissioned July 1, 2014
Lithium-ion Battery
8,000 kW project
Duration at Rated Power: 4 hrs.
Cost ~ $50 million
DOE funding ~ $25 million
http://www.energystorageexchange.org/projects/8
Javert, nice try but wrong. http://aattp.org/its-official-the-states-with-the-highest-numbers-of-welfare-recipients-are-gop-controlled-red-states/
MarkW said: “As to CA being the 6th largest economy, it was that decades before Brown became governor.”
False, it happened this year. http://fortune.com/2016/06/17/california-france-6th-largest-economy/
Former Califormian,
Agriculture is important but far from the most dominant sector in CA: https://www.statista.com/statistics/304869/california-real-gdp-by-industry/
For sure pension liabilities are a big issue long term, as they are for many states.
Going from 9th globally to 6th is a huge deal, I am surprised you act as if it were not. Passing up France, which has a much higher population. Next to fall will be the UK at 2.65T, which is just a tiny bit bigger than CA’s 2.5T.
What is your proof that Brown had nothing to do with it?
Latitude, you are the loon. Of course it is likely a state with a 50% greater population than the number 2 state would received the most federal aid. Duh, Captain Obvious. That’s like bragging that the US, with a population of 300M, has a larger economy than Canada with 35M. Of course it should.
But what you didn’t mention – gee, I wonder why? – is that CA gets back less from the federal govt than they pay in taxes. It’s red states that get more than they pay in. So much for the liberal welfare queen stereotype. http://aattp.org/its-official-the-states-with-the-highest-numbers-of-welfare-recipients-are-gop-controlled-red-states/
Take care of yourselves there. Messages about global warming not being so bad is a few years to early for the unhappy Hillary voters to take in their stride. Here in Ottawa, the river is frozen and the municipality is making the annual outdoor rink in the kids’ park. I’m finding it hard to believe the Arctic isn’t frozen up to it’s usual extent.
I have no doubt we are going to catch up there fast in the coming weeks. I was up in central Quebec (latitude of Jame’s Bay) guiding a tour of a new mine/plant and monitoring taking of a bulk sample a week ago and it was – 20C with a good NW breeze. This is actually mild compared to central and western Canada.
I’m all for launching new satellites. I just don’t want the certifiable interpreting the data. Re Trump, he’s draining the swamp, so I’m sure he’s aware the alligators will be snapping at his A55.
“I’m finding it hard to believe the Arctic isn’t frozen up to it’s usual extent.”
Me too, given the unusual early season snowfalls in the Far East and outbreaks of really cold arctic air in Southern Siberia. But apparently it’s not. FWIW, I’m about 150km SOUTH of Montreal and the temp is in the teens F predicted to drop below zero (F) by tomorrow morning. Wind is howling. Had snow on the ground pretty much continuously since before (US) Thanksgiving. As of this morning the seasonal accumulation on the table on the table on our deck is up to about 7inches. This site https://www.ventusky.com/ gives really interesting pictures of worldwide temp, wind, precipitation, etc. Looks convincingly like NH Winter at the moment.
Upstate NY here reporting: 2 feet of snow before Thanksgiving, snow off and on all the time since then, snow on the ground now, tonight it will be below zero F and this is record breaking cold.
Don K,
I think the answer to the conundrum is that the jet stream has displaced the cold Arctic air southward, allowing warmer mid-latitude to fill the void.
The temperatures here in southern Ohio appear close to breaking a 100-year record for the latter part of this week, which is surprising since because of AGW it is so warm that the temperatures have wrapped around and it is showing as cold.
“I’m finding it hard to believe the Arctic isn’t frozen up to it’s usual extent.” It’s like leaving your fridge door open and the kitchen gets cold.. Of Course, the Fridge warms up to keep the total in balance as demanded by the laws of physics and enthalpy. So like a dog fixating on the one “SQUIRREL!!!!!”, it serves a purpose that only a dog understands. The whole warming song and dance is just that…. No one knows what the net flux is at any time by simply looking at atmospheric temperature in pitifully few pin points of data in a very large system. They don’t know the specific heats nor the state of the constant temperature phase changes for water and atmosphere, water vapour, ice, and on and on. Tiny minds, with even tinier minds cheering the cause on. But I Digress. I came here for coffee.
-the old man.
Well, Old Man, here ya go! 🙂
(youtube — Frank Sinatra, “They Got an Awful Lot of Coffee in Brazil”)
NOT on topic??!
#(:)) Of COURSE it is! Who can endure dealing with clowns like Brown and little sidekick Chris all day without taking a coffee break?
Thx Janice. I needed that. I feel better now. Merry Christmas. (Can I say that? 🙂
When polar air moves south, non-polar air moves up to the pole to replace it.
As a result, every time there is a Siberian Express in the US, the pole actually warms up.
This is why big swings in temperature in polar regions is nothing unusual, despite Griff’s hyperventilating about it.
MarkW: That’s the story, for certain. Without having to account for having to bother with figuring out how to do instantaneous global integration at time t for the Earths magnificent Atmospheric and Oceanic global thermal energy distribution systems, it would be a lot easier to make bold statements about the real rise and fall trend line if things were static. They’d just measure where the sun hits and bounces. No need to integrate, add, subtract, worry about the dark side, pole in the shade, pole in the sun, Vapor migration, phase shifts of water from solid to liquid then vapor..
Ask an astronaut how well his suit works on the sunny side when the distribution system shuts down . He’s counting on the heat gain moving to his A55. I’m a bit grumpy today as you can see. Forgive me. It’s -5 in Victoria. IN VICTORIA!!!
1 What is Brown going to use for money? California doesn’t have any.
2 Are those who are saving the data saving the adjusted data or the unadjusted data?
It’s not data until it’s been properly adjusted.
Chris4692,
And who is going to make sure that it doesn’t get adjusted AFTER it gets moved off government servers? Who will be watching the hen house?
There are more than 20 climate research satellites (of which 2 actually provide some data somewhere that someone can use).
And there are more than 20 planned and proposed ones to go up (of which none will provide data that an ordinary taxpayer can get their hands on).
The data just doesn’t get used anywhere in a useful purpose.
This is far from a complete list but at least an example of how many there are and how many have never provided anything to climate science that you have heard of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_climate_research_satellites
Progressives in CA shut down emission free nuclear’s $.04KWh and now produce too much solar they are forced to export to Nevada power at a loss of $.08KWH. They turn their backs on 4th generation Molten Salt Reactors, but build nature killing Wind and Solar Thermal.
I am glad the adults are taking over the EPA and DOE.
Sounds like another Trumper Tantrum that those on the left are having as they cannot get to grips at the thought of President Trump!
Jerry Brown is desperately trying to build a legacy. Using a creative accounting, he balanced the budget. And look at his legacy in Oakland, with a police department under a federal supervision, and famously bad schools.
And then there are the sanctuary cities, and likely some sanctuary college campuses. If Trump gets to do as he plans, those sanctuary places will be curbed and brought within the law, including withholding of federal funds. The rest of us have been paying for that lawlessness for long enough. How many illegal alien criminals are in CA who will have to be “repatriated” at considerable cost?
Maybe he’d have shred of credibility if he paid attention to what one can actually observe from said satellites….
CLOWN hardly covers it.
If they paid attention to the satellite data we could make a movie about it.
Clown Killers from Outer Space.
you mean …. DARTH BOBO oh noes…
(fx) Jaws Theme….
Brown’s faux outrage reeks of virtue signaling.
gosh !! – ya reckon? /sarc
@Bill Illis -you are correct to a certain extent. Earth observation satellites should have FOSS projects associated with them – that’s obvious. The obfuscation of access – particularly to OCO-2 data has been epic. Presently it’s mostly only anointed haruspices who get to dig about in the data…
Maybe I missed something, but I don’t recall Trump threatening to shut off any NASA satellites. My reading of his comments are that NASA’s job is deep space missions NOT Earth satellites, BUT there ARE agencies that should (and do) have the job of monitoring Earth weather and satellites. Like the NOAA, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Gee even their name indicates that the Atmosphere is their job.
So what I believe Trump is getting at is that agencies should do their jobs and not others jobs. And maybe more importantly, jobs shouldn’t be duplicated.
NASA transfers their Earth weather/atmosphere programs to NOAA (or whichever agency is appropriate). Now the NOAA probably already has people and equipment working on the same issues, meaning redundancies that need to be eliminated. By combining all the current duplicate efforts under one agency, Trump should be able to save money and just keep the very best people.
Now I can see where the ‘scientists’ and bureaucrats are scared of this. many of them will lose their powerful positions and/or their jobs. But a businessman, like Trump, doesn’t care. He wants the most bang for his buck (in this case OUR tax dollars) and doesn’t want to pay 2 people when only one is needed.
I was going to make a very similar comment. Thanks. You saved me the trouble.
Ditto for me. I don’t understand why Moonbeam isn’t being called out for strawman tactics. Another MSM failure, AGAIN. Why is governance so difficult for this democracy and fair and unbiased reporting non-existent? Very depressing. GK
What one would expect NASA is to lend their astronautical experience to get the satellites built to appropriate standards launched into a stable orbit and then turn the mission over to the appropriate agency, sub-contracting for mission control infrastructure, data collection and actual flight operation.
NASA just joined the ‘Global Warming’ gravy train like (practically) every college and university in the U.S. With Congress throwing car loads (train not auto) of money at CAGW everyone wanted their share. How can you blame ’em. After all, it is a bureaucrats primary responsibility to expand his domain. We surely can’t hold that against ’em. /sarc
ddpalmer,
Again, don’t forget the US Geological Survey. In recent years the ranks have been swelled with biologists, so the USGS has the capability to weigh in on such things as the water cycle, the carbon cycle, land use changes, and impacts on plant and animal life. They are probably better qualified for such things than either the typical NASA or NOAA scientist.
On the one hand I see someone talking to any and everybody even those who disagree with him and on the other I see people shouting screaming and throwing their toys about.
I know who I would trust more to do what they say they will.
James Bull