Bill McKibben Goes Full Jackboot on Climate Change

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Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Bill McKibben wants the world to wage war against Climate Change, by giving governments full wartime powers to seize private property and coerce businesses into supporting the effort, and with strict government control of the economy.

A WORLD at WAR

We’re under attack from climate change—and our only hope is to mobilize like we did in WWII.

BY BILL MCKIBBEN

August 15, 2016

In the North this summer, a devastating offensive is underway. Enemy forces have seized huge swaths of territory; with each passing week, another 22,000 square miles of Arctic ice disappears. Experts dispatched to the battlefield in July saw little cause for hope, especially since this siege is one of the oldest fronts in the war. “In 30 years, the area has shrunk approximately by half,” said a scientist who examined the onslaught. “There doesn’t seem anything able to stop this.”

World War III is well and truly underway. And we are losing.

To make the Stanford plan work, you would need to build a hell of a lot of factories to turn out thousands of acres of solar panels, and wind turbines the length of football fields, and millions and millions of electric cars and buses. But here again, experts have already begun to crunch the numbers. Tom Solomon, a retired engineer who oversaw the construction of one of the largest factories built in recent years—Intel’s mammoth Rio Rancho semiconductor plant in New Mexico—took Jacobson’s research and calculated how much clean energy America would need to produce by 2050 to completely replace fossil fuels. The answer: 6,448 gigawatts.

“It was public capital that built most of the stuff, not Wall Street,” says Wilson. “And at the top level of logistics and supply-chain management, the military was the boss. They placed the contracts, they moved the stuff around.” The feds acted aggressively—they would cancel contracts as war needs changed, tossing factories full of people abruptly out of work. If firms refused to take direction, FDR ordered many of them seized. Though companies made money, there was little in the way of profiteering—bad memories from World War I, Wilson says, led to “robust profit controls,” which were mostly accepted by America’s industrial tycoons. In many cases, federal authorities purposely set up competition between public operations and private factories: The Portsmouth Naval Shipyard built submarines, but so did Electric Boat of Groton, Connecticut. “They were both quite impressive and productive,” Wilson says.

“Usually, when people from different worlds are dealing with each other, they get into conflicts and then dig in their heels deeper,” Berk says. “But because the stakes are so high and it’s moving so fast, no one doubts that if you don’t get a handle on this battle in the Atlantic, then the immediate consequences will be really grave. So they’re willing to do this kind of pragmatic trial and error. They start to see that ‘I can’t dig in my heels–I need this other person to learn from.’” In the face of a common enemy, Americans worked together in a way they never had before.

Read more: https://newrepublic.com/article/135684/declare-war-climate-change-mobilize-wwii

The McKibben post is well worth reading in full, amongst other things it contains interesting reflections about the climate policies of current US presidential candidates.

Leaving aside the question of whether renewables can replace fossil fuels (according to top Google engineers, they can’t), think about what a grim world McKibben wants to create.

The government would have unconstrained power to seize private property, and direct business people to work for the government for whatever “profit” the government decided was fair, on pain of having their assets forcibly removed and handed to someone else.

McKibben handily skirts around how he would deal with non business people, political opponents who object to or obstruct his war on climate, but it seems pretty obvious what would happen, if wartime history is any guide. A government willing to seize property and treat productive people as slaves simply wouldn’t tolerate opposition. At the very least public opposition to government policy would lead to long term internment – incarceration without due process.

Worst of all, McKibben’s war would never end. McKibben actually laments that control of the economy was handed back to private individuals after WW2.

That attitude quickly reset after the war, of course; solidarity gave way to the biggest boom in personal consumption the world had ever seen, as car-packed suburbs sprawled from every city and women were retired to the kitchen. Business, eager to redeem its isolationist image and shake off New Deal restrictions, sold itself as the hero of the war effort, patriotic industrialists who had overcome mountains of government red tape to get the job done. And the modest “operations researchers,” who had entered and learned from the real world when they managed radar development during the war, retreated to their ivory towers and became much grander “systems analysts” once the conflict ended. Robert McNamara, a former Ford executive, brought an entire wing of the Rand Corporation to the Defense Department during the Kennedy administration, where the think-tank experts promptly privatized most of the government shipyards and plane factories, and used their out-of-touch computer models to screw up government programs like Model Cities, the ambitious attempt at urban rehabilitation during the War on Poverty. “The systems analysts completely took over,” Berk says, “and the program largely failed for that reason.”

Read more: Same link as above

If I had written a post anywhere near as outrageous as McKibben’s jingoistic demand for a war on climate, his demand for wholesale surrender of liberty and property rights to government, I would be called a fascist. But because McKibben is a green, he gets a free pass from mainstream media to demand the unthinkable.

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Where are the calls to prosecute and imprison these seditious fascists?

bill johnston

“Wait for it………..Wait for it…….. I keel you!
h/t Jeff Dunham

Bill Johnson, he sort of looks like Achmed the Dead Terrorist too…I wonder who the ventriloquist is that makes ol Kibben “talk”…

Evan Jones

Now, now. He is not saying anything unlawful. In that light, he gets to say what he likes and we get to say what we want. And no one goes to jail. That’s how i like it. These things go back and forth, after all.

Greg

Agreed, he should be free to show us just how unhinged he really is. Don’t hold back Bill, let it all out.
He has the appearance of being pretty close to the edge of insanity. Look at those eyes, he isn’t well, he’s anxious and desperate. Desperate that it’s all going to fall apart pretty quickly now.
He looks like some fired-up evangelical bible basher warning of the wrath of God and the end of the world.
Not surprising since this kind of eco-fascism bears all the hallmarks of a religious sect.
The call for war time emergency powers shows just how desperate he’s getting about lack of any of this alarmist crap actually manifesting itself. His urgency is to grab total control before everyone realises that after 30 years of “the end is nigh” , it does seem to be getter any nigher.
Meanwhile the climate propaganda team at the Guardian are trying to relaunch Wadham’s stupid claims of ‘ice-free Arctic”. Having just been proven wrong with his prediction in 2012 that the Arctic would be ice-free this year, he is not promising ice-free for next year or 2018.
Some people never learn.
Despite apparently have spent a good part of his career studying polar ice he clearly has very little understanding of what drives and keeps making foolish predictions which only go to prove how totally clueless he is.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/21/arctic-will-be-ice-free-in-summer-next-year

Farmer Ted.

Yes, but! Keep your eye on the pea.
Lots of talk. What’s the action?

MarkW

Free speech means you get to say even outrageous things.
Anyone who wants to ban speech like McKibben’s, is as bad as McKibben.

Michael C. Roberts

It is the forum and the reach of the masses that is the point. Here, as we react to McKibben’s words we have the potential to reach those within the sphere of WUWT’s influence (though relatively large for a science website, it probably amounts to less than the press releases and re-reporting in various media of McKibben’s statements). That he espouses control of economic production and the use of energy sources, along with the venue and method of promulgation that make his statements more ‘alarming’ to those with a more Capitalistic viewpoint. McKibben is espousing Fascism, by description:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
Very difficult to see this otherwise; although I am open to opposing opinions…
Regards,
MCR

Joel Snider

And again, this is the crowd that has come to prominence, forcing agenda-item after agenda-item, always riding on the protections of free speech, and now that their own doctrine has become mainstream, the first thing they want to do is criminalize dissent to their own belief system. Church Lady circa 2016.

This is the way the “Brown Shirts” acted in 1932 when Hitler was an “Up and Coming”Nazi,before WW2.History is repeating itself,sadly.
The new fascism of the left is filled with violence and hate.

MarkW

In my experience, the true nature of the left comes out whenever they get power.
The desire to use government to silence all disagreement is part of the left wing DNA.

Latitude

People are funny animals…
They tend to look on the outside….like they are on the inside

Evan Jones

Agreed (except it is also not always so funny).

Goldrider

Right? Mad as a March hare!

jorgekafkazar

Projection.

Tom in Florida

Perhaps he is right. This is a World War and once again free people everywhere will have to rise up and unite to defeat the proposed tyranny of fascists like Bil McKibben.

Allencic

As I often say, “When I want a top scientist “go to” person about climate my first thought is Bill McKibben an English major from Harvard.” Or I could go to another Harvard scientist, Barack Hussein Obama. Or that fabulous Harvard alchemist, Al Gore who has been able to turn CO2 into gold. A bit of an educational pattern developing in those who’ve profited from the AGW scam don’t you think?

M Seward

And how could you go past the inimitable Timothy Leary another star from Harvard although they did spot him for what he was eventually. Either way, Mad Billy McK is in great company.

jorgekafkazar
brians356

Society gossip columnist. He wrote the “Talk Of The Town” column for The New Yorker Magazine! Don Quixote and J. J. Hunsecker rolled into one.

Aphan

OH THE IRONY-
“To make the Stanford plan work, you would need to build a hell of a lot of factories to turn out thousands of acres of solar panels, and wind turbines the length of football fields, and millions and millions of electric cars and buses.”
Ok Bill….since we currently do NOT HAVE the kind of technology in place in which “a hell of a lot of factories” could be built that run COMPLETELY and EFFICIENTLY on renewable energy sources, what you are saying is that in order to even BUILD that “hell of a lot of factories” we would have to burn even more than a hell of a lot of FOSSIL FUELS, let alone what it would take to build all of the solar panels, wind turbines, and electric cars and buses that you want to have PRODUCED by that hell of a lot of factories.
I’ve long given up any hope that these people realize how idiotic, insane, and completely hypocritical they sound to rational, logical human beings. But I will continue to point it out. For example:
Somebody tell McFibben-from nsidc themselves-
“As of August 14, Arctic sea ice extent was 5.61 million square kilometers (2.17 million square miles). This is the third lowest extent in the satellite record for this date and slightly below the two standard deviation range”
In 2012, the Maximum Winter Ice Extent in May was the highest it’s been in YEARS, right up against the 1981-2010 average, and then it dropped like a lead balloon, completely out of the 2 standard deviation range by a long shot. May of 2016 shows maximum ice extent BELOW the 1981-2010 2 standard deviation range for that time of year, and yet our end of summer melt is right now just “slightly” below the two standard deviation range. 4 years ago, a hell of a lot of ice, ended the season with very little ice (if you can consider anything measured in millions of square kilometers as very little of anything). This year, not so much ice ended the season with just below average ice. Shut up Bill.

H.R.

Aphan,
a) Haven’t caught one of your comments in a while, you been away or have I not been paying attention?
b) You wrote:

Ok Bill….since we currently do NOT HAVE the kind of technology in place in which “a hell of a lot of factories” could be built that run COMPLETELY and EFFICIENTLY on renewable energy sources, what you are saying is that in order to even BUILD that “hell of a lot of factories” we would have to burn even more than a hell of a lot of FOSSIL FUELS, let alone what it would take to build all of the solar panels, wind turbines, and electric cars and buses that you want to have PRODUCED by that hell of a lot of factories.”

Bill knows and ignores that. He’s a paid propagandist and recruiter. Bill was preaching to people who don’t think; they respond to the emotion of what was said. It’s his job to whip the masses into a frenzy. For all the money that’s been paid to him to do that job, sometimes I think his employers should examine the return on their investment. Hmm… I guess they are satisfied ’cause they keep paying him.

Aphan

H.R.
Did you miss me? Or were you enjoying my silence? Lol
Been reading WUWT every day, but started a new job and have been working my butt off, so not much posting time. 🙂

old construction worker

What? you mean the ice isn’t gone. But Big Al said it would be gone by 2009. I read it on the internet so bit must be true. LOL

Thomas Englert

We lack a modern day Albert Speer to make the Stanford plan work, irrespective of whether it’s needed or not.

Hivemind

We also lack a modern day Hitler, his boss, to send anyone who complained about losing their freedoms to the concentration camps.

Jim Yushchyshyn

“We would have to burn even more than a hell of a lot of FOSSIL FUELS, let alone what it would take to build all of the solar panels, wind turbines, and electric cars and buses that you want to have PRODUCED by that hell of a lot of factories.”
For a while, probably for decades, yes we will.

Harry Passfield

McKibben: IS as McKibben is – and both are enemies of the people. (punctuation is all).

The way I see it is this is an act of desperation, since by now even this knuckledragging drooling envirofascist.,must realize that the bushel full of warmists predictions are not happening.
Sea Level not accelerating. Arctic ice is still there are the end of another summer..Antarctica sea ice are record highs in recent years.Warming trend per decade well below the IPCC projected rate.The missing Hotspot is still missing.Landfalling Hurricane drought,No long term trend changes to drought index.No increase in Hurricane or Tornado rate per year,on and on the marching failures that McKibben can’t continue to ignore.
When La Nina comes in,reducing the temperature,he will go into shock again with more babbling bullcrap.

TeeWee

These are the Globalist and representatives of the entrenched political class that Wikileaks warned us about. These well funded activist while few in numbers are very vocal and supported by a corrupt media that Wiki also informed us about. Its is high time these people be shouted down and rejected. WUWT is doing a good job at that.

markl

These are some seriously deluded people. The more evidence pointing to natural variability in our climate the more shrill their rants become. Hopefully they will implode soon before more damage is done to humanity.

No surprise to me. I understand these people. Anthony thinks Bill M. is a good guy but slightly misguided. I consider him to be evil – he knows exactly what he is doing and for what purpose and it is not for the prosperity of humanity.
Do not treat these scum like members of your family – they will sacrifice you and your entire family for their agenda. They are 100% INtolerant. Just review the 20th century for intolerant ideology for the wonderful results.

rw

He probably is a good guy. And he doesn’t “know exactly what he is doing” – \I would call that the Omniscience Fallacy. But you don’t need that form of explanation to justify your conclusions, which I concur with.

EricH

“… used their out-of-touch computer models to screw up government programs…”
Anyone else see the irony here…?

Harry Passfield

Yes, EricH, that quote alone needs a whole load more publicity. I just hope that anyine in the future debating McKibben will remind him of his words.

John Harmsworth

That’s the money quote, right there! Ridiculous!

AmyHolbrook

Wow, scary! Looks crazy. My impulse would be not to believe anyone who looks so furious.

And the trouble with him is he has admitted that he doesn’t understand the science, why should he? He’s a writer, not a scientist, he doesn’t have science degree. But this is a scientific topic not a political one. when I live in Vermont I saw many people like Bill. They have political goals they and global warming is a way to achieve their political goals. I has not whatsoever to do with the facts.

Paul Coppin

“Bill, your rubber room is ready for you.”

u.k(us)

Nothing more dangerous than a cornered animal.

n.n

Scientific mysticism with its unbridled reach in time and space has replaced the limited domain of science.
People who presume to act as mortal gods (e.g. monopoly formation) are historically first-order causes of catastrophic anthropogenic evolutionary dysfunction, including causing unprecedented collateral damage (e.g. mass a-bortion).

McKibben says it is war, thereby confirming what Aeschylus (525 -456 BC) said. “In war truth is the first casualty,”

brians356

“Suppose they gave a war and nobody came.”

Paul Coppin

“But because McKibben is a green, he gets a free pass from mainstream media to demand the unthinkable.”
Mainstream media doesn’t even know he exists, which is a good thing. Unfortunately, politicians do, which is a very bad, just awful, can’t get any worse thing.

MarkW

Most of the media would gladly support fascism, so long as they were the ones running it.

Watermellon

Andrew D Burnette

Ha ha. Thanks.

Harry Passfield

Ristvan: Initially, I quite misread that: What a mellon!

Mellon head.

With comments like his, he is red on both sides.

Same ol, same ol. No price tag for Jacobson’s plan (my estimate is at least $23 trillion). Declaring war on things has a really bad record. We declared war on poverty. And lost. We declared war on cancer. And lost. Etc.
Notice the art work in McKibben’s piece at NR. Kinda remind you of something? All we need are blond, healthy peasants in the field…
I’m willing to help fight the effects of global warming, although I’d feel a bit more enthusiastic if we could actually pin down those effects. But we should phase our efforts in with the least expensive first.
Start with a revenue neutral carbon tax with all monies returned via rebates on social security. All the political independents and conservatives who are about to tell me that you can’t trust the government with this money–that’s the only reason you independents and conservatives have for existing on this planet (just kidding…). Go make sure that doesn’t happen.

Bob Cormack

A “revenue neutral carbon tax” is not exactly harmless: It will raise the cost of producing (and hence the price of) everything and will be a major inducement for production to go offshore to a less insane government. As a result, a great many local jobs will be lost, and the newly jobless people won’t even be able to afford the cheaper imported products, much less the artificially inflated local products that (somehow — probably due to government subsidy) still survive.
Those who support the idea of a “revenue neutral tax” don’t understand anything about how an economy works, because they are mostly socialists who think that things are produced magically somehow and will never go away no matter what you do to the producers.
They are also, apparently, too dim to take any lessons from the experience of socialist nations, such as Venezuela.

Bob Cormack:
” … and will be a major inducement for production to go offshore to a less insane government.”
No they won’t. Hillary has proposed an “EXIT TAX” to prevent it. And we know she is an expert on such things. (And I suspect she will win but what an awful 4 years is in the offing.)

3x2

thomaswfuller2
[…] Notice the art work in McKibben’s piece at NR. Kinda remind you of something? All we need are blond, healthy peasants in the field […]
Probably the very first thing I noticed.
Looks so much more innocuous when one uses wind turbines though.

Eugene WR Gallun

thomaswfuller2
How do you get from your first paragraph to your last paragraph? I am amazed by the transition.
Poverty and cancer are real and you say throwing money at them didn’t work. You don’t even know what effects (if any) global warming is having yet you advocate throwing money at “those effects”.
So pass a tax that you can’t give a good reason for passing? A tax with no designated specific purpose except vague promises to fight global warming effects that can’t even be named? — And then you dis people who suggest that new money stream will be ill used?
In your own way you are as crazy as McKibbles. Not all your Bits are there.
Eugene WR Gallun
PS — “Kibbles ‘n Bits” is a dog food.

MarkW

Cancer survival rates are way, way up. Many cancers that used to be incurable, are now curable. I wouldn’t say that throwing money at cancer research has been a total waste.
Has there been waste and fraud in cancer research. Quite possibly, but that’s far from saying it has had no value.
On the other hand, despite the trillions spent fighting poverty, poverty is as bad, if not worse than it was in the 50’s and 60’s.

Aphan

“On the other hand, despite the trillions spent fighting poverty, poverty is as bad, if not worse than it was in the 50’s and 60’s.”
Not exactly accurate MarkW
From The National Poverty Center-http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/
*******
“How has poverty changed over time?”
“In the late 1950s, the poverty rate for all Americans was 22.4 percent, or 39.5 million individuals. These numbers declined steadily throughout the 1960s, reaching a low of 11.1 percent, or 22.9 million individuals, in 1973. Over the next decade, the poverty rate fluctuated between 11.1 and 12.6 percent, but it began to rise steadily again in 1980. By 1983, the number of poor individuals had risen to 35.3 million individuals, or 15.2 percent.
For the next ten years, the poverty rate remained above 12.8 percent, increasing to 15.1 percent, or 39.3 million individuals, by 1993. The rate declined for the remainder of the decade, to 11.3 percent by 2000. From 2000 to 2004 it rose each year to 12.8 in 2004. The poverty rate continued to increase, peaking at 15.1 percent in 2010, the highest poverty rate since 1993. The poverty rate has remained relatively stable for the past 4 years.
Since the late 1960s, the poverty rate for people over 65 has fallen dramatically. The poverty rate for children has historically been somewhat higher than the overall poverty rate. The poverty rate for people in households headed by single women is significantly higher than the overall poverty rate.”
******

3x2

Eugene WR Gallun
I am amazed by the transition.
Poverty and cancer are real and you say throwing money at them didn’t work. You don’t even know what effects (if any) global warming is having yet you advocate throwing money at “those effects”.

(I don’t claim to speak for Thomas) …
Poverty is maintained by denying those in it, any kind of way out like using their own resources eg Coal to get themselves out.
Here is a country that was a complete hell hole not too long ago …
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiVj9uD4dXOAhUCnBoKHU6BBkQQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.internationaltravellermag.com%2Fideal-itinerary-for-48-hours-in-shanghai%2F&bvm=bv.129759880,d.ZGg&psig=AFQjCNFXi701AcBfO9HasitDjZqe6HzZ6g&ust=1471980550907774

3x2

Sorry for the mess of a URL earlier … (Distracted by a young child) ….
http://s1.it.atcdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Shanghai.jpg

So, ThomasWfuller2 in relationship to cancer, do think we should quit looking for a cure?

thomaswfuller2
Do you even understand what “revenue neutral tax” means?
Revenue Neutrality-
“A condition of fiscal policymaking in which any increase or decrease in tax revenues be achieved with a commensurate increase or decrease in tax revenues. For example, a proposal to decrease taxes for one economic group must include a mechanism to increase tax revenues from another source in order to offset the revenue decrease.”
1-
If you create a “carbon tax”, you create a new tax that does not now exist. That’s an INCREASE. You then MUST, by very definition of the term “revenue neutral”, offset that increase by DECREASING tax revenues somewhere else, immediately. You cannot create an increase that at some future point will decrease when it’s withdrawn as SS rebates. The decrease must happen at the same time, and at the same rate, that the new increase takes place. How do you propose to accomplish this?
2-
How the crap would you determine exactly how much “carbon” each and every individual person on social security “used/uses” in order to “rebate” them all equally and fairly? Because for every person that dies without being able to use their “rebate”, you get an automatic “increase” in a system that is supposed to be revenue neutral.
3-
People who are drawing on their social security will STILL be creating a “carbon footprint”, how do you make sure their lifelong carbon output equals their lifetime’s carbon rebate?
Oh, and the reason independents and conservatives exist, it because progressives and liberals must be kept in check. It’s a natural balance created by the universe to keep idiotic and irrational people from believing that we’re going to capsize Guam with too many troops, or that Neil Armstrong planted a flag on Mars in 1969 (thank you Hank Johnson (D) and Sheila Jackson Lee (D) ).

Ok it’s official, McKibbon is a waste of good skin that is breathing my air.
What a freaking crackpot. I think the piece of sky that fell on his head smashed what was already broken into itty bitty pieces.

Kamikazedave

Did McKibben’s parents have any children who lived?

i think McKibben is basically an authoritarian personality who would latch on to any holy cause, and does not much care what cause. What he finds attractive about climate change is not the scientific merits, but the opportunity to coerce the proletariat.
Interesting, though, how people avocating an authoritarian system always see themselves as the authority.

Javert Chip

Tom
You have just beautifully stated the modus operandi of our power-hunting so-called-elites.
They would sell their souls to control other people.

Eugene WR Gallun

Tom Halla
No, a man who wants to live under the boot is a masochist. McKibben is begging for a boot to kiss.
Eugene WR Gallun

observa

It’s war alright as these sad sack cretins get more histrionic and looney tooney by the day-
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/any_minute_now/
What kind of future has Travis’ kid got with that attitude-
“Here’s a provocative thought: Maybe we should protect our kids by not having them,” Rieder says.
The dude needs close monitoring from the child protection agency by all accounts.

Javert Chip

Yea – where were his parents when we needed them?

dam1953

Two observations.
1 – Mckinney’s plan has been tried before for a different cause. It’s caused communism. It didn’t and won’t work for a number of reasons but mostly because communism’s basic tenants contradict natural selection.
2- If the left is serious about winning their climate war they have to be prepared to use any and all weapons, including nuclear. Since they are not willing to go nuclear they either aren’t serious about the problem or solution or they are prepared for millions of people to die.

TonyL

Since they are not willing to go nuclear

I would not be so sure. Perhaps the reason they have not gone full nuke is that they have not had the chance yet.
After all, this guy does liken the situation to WW III, and we all know what that means. Further, two recent posts here detail some arguments that humans are a plague on the planet and need to be exterminated.
I think it is best to keep in mind, at all times, that we are dealing with some seriously mentally ill people here.

I believe dam1953’s comment was a clever reference to nuclear *power*, not nuclear weapons. indeed, nuclear power is a far better solution to efficient, high-availability low-carbon electricity than any so-called renewable.
I’ve long admired Socolow and Pacala’s willingness to go where the data leads and include nuclear in their famous “wedges” paper, despite the resulting storm of ignorant criticism. Replacing a lot of coal power with nuclear is an intelligent “no regrets” concept, especially considering the paucity of tsunamis in the US states generating the most coal power.

Bulldust

Putting the mental into environmental?

MarkW

The nuke plant survived the tsunami. Unfortunately the back up diesel generator did not.

Eugene WR Gallun

Bulldust — “Putting the mental into environmental” Got to love it — Eugene WR Gallun

Bulldust

Thanks .. I must admit I was rather pleased with it myself. One must endeavour to find ways to amuse oneself, no?

Paul Westhaver

L-U-N-A-T-I-C
The full moon was on Aug 18th. So good ole Bill the wacko was a bit premature.

John Boles

It seems to me that so many of the greenies (Guy Mcpherson, McKibben, et al) merely pay lip service preaching the standard sermon about CAGW and then go on driving cars, flying, using electricity, heating their homes, etc. They seem to have an attitude that they are doing good work by telling the little people to stop using energy, and so they themselves are off the hook and free to use energy because they are getting the good word out, telling others not to use energy. I wonder how they justify it in their minds.

That guy is a flat out communist! Anyone that uses unapproved things like air conditioning, would get people tossed out of their home and the place seized is really really insane.

Marcus

..All the watermelons are showing their true colors…it must be getting worse for them then we thought !

3x2

For them, it’s as though National Socialism and Communism never existed. Forget warming, we really will be in trouble if they ever get their way.

PiperPaul
R. Shearer

Does it come in green?

PiperPaul
mpcraig

Lol…Sixteen minute turnaround, well done…

PiperPaul

1. I didn’t see R. Shearer’s post right away
2. I am color-blind
3. Had to wait for TinyPic
Would have been faster.

Pat Kelly

There’s many reasons why Bill McKibben’s plan won’t work, but the biggest two reasons are: China and Russia.

John Harmsworth

One more: sanity!

Paul Westhaver

I’ve been following this Extinction Level Event nonsense for 16 or more years now. I have heard “We must act now or we will all die” Sooooooo many times that I forget the full catalogue of doom that we are now supposed to be enduring, since it so vast.
I am sure Anthony has a running list of Doom Dates and we’ve past them… (not the UN -revised to keep it going list) … so what bee got in McKibben’s bonnet on Aug 15th?

R. Shearer

It’s too late. About 90%of us died from starvation in the 1990’s.

Paul Coppin

And the remaining 10% burnt up in the spate of AGW…

Noo, according to Paul Ehrlich, I died of starvation in the 1980’s. This is being written by a ghost.:-)

AllyKat

I was dissolved by acid rain in the 1990s. Fortunately, I had already suffocated because “we” cut down the rainforests. Prior to suffocation (or was it after?), I was burnt to a crisp by the sun because the ozone layer was destroyed by too much Aquanet.
If only I had listened to my betters and denounced my parents while demanding they send all their money to the doomsayers. If only my parents had protected me by not having me…
…I would not be around to notice that just about every doom and gloom prophecy made in the last few decades has not been fulfilled. Or that all those different “problems” have the exact same proposed solution, which will not actually “solve” the “problem”, but will cause new ones. Or that the solution enriches the doomsayers. Or that the doomsayers are not actually subject to their proposed changes. Or…

R. Shearer

Meanwhile, Hilliary flies 20 miles and back from Nantucket to Martha’s Vineyard, on a private jet of course, for a $100,000 a head fundraiser.

yam

“Everything for the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”
A Benito Award for McKibben.

Mark from the Midwest

… “FDR ordered many of them seized.” ????
What alternative history does McKibbles believe in. Wartime powers don’t give the Federal Government the right to sieze private property, at best it enables expedited due process. But it’s still, legally, a “taking” and requires fair market compensation. During WWII most corporations were more than happy to do their patriotic duty, it was good business. Ford Motor, General Dynamics, (Electric Boat), and North American Aviation, (Rockwell Aerospace), all grew at enormous rates during WWII. And it was the war, more than anything from the New Deal that finally pulled the U.S. out of depression.
The other problem with McKibbles idea is that war time efforts are aimed at “making stuff”, not “not making stuff.” There;s a big difference.

Alan Robertson

This administration regularly violates the Constitution’s Takings Clause via EPA judgements against private use of private land and via any and all bureaucratic means available through other agencies, most commonly, the Bureau of Land Management. In fairness, it isn’t just within this administration’s guidance that the various bureaucracies subvert Constitutional processes, although the current admin. has exaerbated and refined unconstitutional government action through a long series of Executive orders.

Tsk Tsk

Repeat after me: Wars do not cure depressions. It is NEVER good economics to blow up perfectly serviceable capital and people.

Bartemis

Indeed. The war employed people, but goods were rationed, and it could in no way have been called prosperity. When it ended, the economy sank back down. Fortunately, many of the crackpot New Deal policies had been suspended for the war, and Truman was unable to get them reinstituted. Once his “Fair Deal” was soundly defeated, the economy started back up again, this time for real.

MarkW

It wasn’t the war so much as it was FDR abandoning the thousands of pages of regulations that had been put in place in order to “solve” the Great Depression, that got the US out of the Great Depression.
It was necessary to dump these regulations in order to free up businesses so that they could make the stuff needed to win the war.

Correction: It was productivity instead of New Deal meddling that eliminated the Depression. You can’t make prosperity by building weapons, you only protect it with them.
Richard Salsman and others have chronicled how government policies created the Great Depression and prolonged it. Read Breaking the Banks regarding government forcing of credit (which also caused the Recession of 2008) and The Capitalist Manifesto for a broad look at what individual freedom supported by defense and justice systems does for humans.
McKibben is of course the opposite, a collectivist heavily of the Marxist flavour.

Bill McKibben is a Groucho Marxist.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/08/19/climate-philosopher-demands-a-tax-on-children/comment-page-1/#comment-2281977
Marxists come in many packages with many labels – for example:
Trotskyites, Leninists, Maoists, Stalinists, Shachtmanites, etc.
When I was at McGill in the 1960’s. there were about a dozen different Marxist groups – so many that their group names were extremely long – just to differentiate them.
In general, we observed that they fit into two groups:
1. The make-love-not-war, dope-smoking Harpo Marxists,
and
2. The nasty, angry, violent Groucho Marxists.
Most climate alarmists have embraced a Harpo Marxist approach and a few are Groucho Marxists – they just do not realize it – they think they are “Progressives”.
Regards, Allan 🙂

markl

Well put. I’m going to steal this:-)

Barbara

GOOD COP/BAD COP
Environmental NGOs and Their Strategies Toward Business
Chapter 2: “Who Is Part Of the Environmental Movement”
This Chapter is about how the Environmental Movement is involved in business affairs/company affairs.
Has diagrams of environmental networks. Such information as interlocking boards and foundations.
Helps to explain how this whole affair works and who’s involved.
http://www.erb.umich.edu/Research/Faculty-Research/2010goodcop_badcop_hoffman.pdf
Well worth reading.

Barbara

SAGE journals
“The Varied Work of Challenger Movements: Identifying Challenger Roles in the U.S. Environmental Movement”
Abstract:
“Adopting a mixed method approach, we explore the heterogeneous nature of the work undertaken by challengers in the U.S. environmental movement.”
Article is pay-walled.
http://www.sagepub.com or internet search using article title.
Canadians are involved in this as well and there is more information on this subject on the internet.
“Challengers” must be the new name for this kind of activity.

Eugene WR Gallun

Allan MacRae —
Groucho Marxists and Harpo Marxists!!!!!!! I missed that. Thank you for repeating it. I will keep that close to my funny bone.
Eugene WR Gallun

Alan Robertson

Bill McKibben is another of the climate darlings which NPR (gov’t. radio) regularly interviews or references as an expert on climate matters, along with such notable voices as George Monbiot and Gavin Schmidt.

John W. Garrett

The guy really is a fruitcake. He reminds me of Rasputin.
What I don’t understand is how he’s managed to control the Rockefeller heirs. They really ought to know better.

Alan Robertson

One does not become more wise and enlightened by becoming ever more deeply embedded into the elite classes. Instead, one becomes more distant from the wider range of human thought and condition. The dark lenses through which the born elites gaze, become ever darker, mirrored, reflecting only their own thinking and that which they perceive will continue and maintain their wealth and control, as well as their status and acceptance within their peerage.
The elite classes recognize McKibben for what he is and have pegged him as useful. Thus, he is given a public voice and touted as an expert, prompting this conversation.

The heirs often take their good fortune for granted, and have no idea how to generate wealth. Rags to riches to rags in the third generation is the standard formulation. Perhaps the Rockefeller fortune was so immense, its heirs have made it to the fourth.

Barbara

Check out Steven C. Rockefeller & Bill McKibben. Maybe more Rockefeller than McKibben. Then checkout Rockefeller & Maurice Strong.

ralfellis

The guy really is a fruitcake. He reminds me of Rasputin.
What I don’t understand is how he’s managed to control the Rockefeller heirs.
_______________________________
The same way that Rasputin got into and controlled the Romanovs. He told them what they wanted to hear (especially the regina), and he said it so convincingly she thought he was a mystic or prophet.
R

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/08/15/paul-krugman-explains-how-to-break-the-climate-policy-deadlock/comment-page-1/#comment-2279509
[excerpt]
The global warming alarmists have been consistently wrong, since none of their scary predictions have materialized. The warmists have perfect negative credibility to date.
Furthermore, that is ample evidence of unethical conduct by the warmists in the Climategate emails, the Mann hockey stick fiasco, the temperature data revisions, etc.
The climate skeptics have a much better predictive track record – below is our example from 2002. Our predictions were certainly “surprising” for that time and certainly “high-risk” – our co-author Dr. Sallie Baliunas was forced out of Harvard, allegedly by the current US President’s Chief Scientific Advisor and others – a shameful act and a great loss to the scientific community.
Regards to all, Allan MacRae, P. Eng.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/08/12/the-moral-case-for-fossil-fuels/comment-page-1/#comment-2277431
[excerpt]
IN SUMMARY:
All the above predictions that we made in 2002 have proven correct in those states that fully adopted the Kyoto Accord, whereas none of the global warming alarmists’ scary warming projections have materialized.

KevinK

As the son of a WWII veteran and the nephew of 5 WWII veterans I am appalled at how this loon compares his belief that he can wage war against the climate to all the sacrifices and suffering from WWII.
Complete lunacy.
Does he not realize that building all of the infrastructure to replace all of the carbon based energy would require massive use of even more carbon based energy ?
Concrete and rebar require massive amounts of energy to produce, you could not possibly install enough “carbon free” energy fast enough to even produce all the needed materials to make more “carbon free” factories.
The Solar City factory in Buffalo is powered by the electrical grid. It cannot even power itself.
With loons like this fighting this “war” we may as well declare victory already and pat each other on the back and call it a day.
There is no need for this “war on climate”, and it most certainly cannot be won, even if we shoot all the disbelievers and force the survivors to do “exactly as McKibben” says.
Somebody should look into some mental health care for Mr. McKibben, seems he has a bad case of Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Cheers, KevinK

The Original Mike M

Or maybe “Self Inflicted Stress Disorder”?

Eugene WR Gallun

The Original Mike M — “Self Inflicted Stress Disorder” Too good, just too good! Hahahahaha! — Eugene WR Gallun

Love it! 🙂

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/05/21/the-economic-impact-of-greenhouse-gas-emissions/comment-page-1/#comment-2220950
[excerpt]
Fossil fuels have delivered humanity from the worst forms of poverty and slavery.
Now, warmist scoundrels and imbeciles want to deny the benefits of cheap fossil fuel energy to the poorest of humankind, and drive the rest of us backwards into energy poverty. What the warmists are advocating is not only wrong, it is harmful and it is evil.
Cheap, abundant reliable energy is the lifeblood of humanity – it IS that simple!
Best regards, Allan MacRae, P.Eng.

FJ Shepherd

The first casualty of war is truth. Somehow, truth became a casualty long before this war was declared.

H.R.

Whew! “Weepy” Bill looks sure looks different in that picture. Oh! He shaved off the ‘toothbrush’ mustache. That’s what it is.

Wolfman

Elites believe in rule by the enlightened, like them. Free markets, true free expression, and personal freedom are always considered suspect by them. Fascism and socialism share a lot with feudalism. Kings and Lords are now politicians, and the new clergy are the technology elites–but both have abandoned the scientific, economic and governmental principles that created the modern world. Now, the gradual move toward more equality and shared prosperity 4will be replaced by a desire to impose their “enlightened” vision.

The Original Mike M

McKibben is really just an anachronism, he would have fit in perfectly about 90 years ago as say a trusted political advisor … for Stalin.

with each passing week, another 22,000 square miles of Arctic ice disappears
It’s called summer

tomwys1

Come October, with each passing week, another 22,000 square miles of Arctic ice re-appears.

Ah, but that is only a tactical retreat to fool us and all the better crush us again next spring.

RBom

Guess 6448.org will replace 350.org and continue McKibben’s ponzi scheme.

John

He has lost it. Totally. Period.

Johann Wundersamer

“It was public capital that built most of the stuff, not Wall Street,” says it all: ‘renewables’ will never fulfill the task and will never pay of.
A costly burden.

The general delusion here is that FDR’s wartime controls were absolute – they were not, and the hilarious claim that govt run production was efficient. It was those govt folks who designed the worst weapons we built during the war – the Sherman tank was a disaster and the bazooka, amongst other weapons from govt labs, was also a disaster. Warplanes, on trhe other hand, were designed and built by airplane manufacturers, not govt beaurocrats, and they dominated the skies within a few years, despite the giant lead the Japanese and Germans had in building planes. And the torpedoes from those folks at the Groton works were terrible. The biggest advantage our ground troops had was their mobility – provided by trucks and jeeps, which didn’t require any help from FDR or his incompetent wartime folks. Actually, FDR’s govt did little aside from decreeing which articles were to be produced. These decrees were not seen as
“controlling” an economy but rather as a temporary necessity, and the public widely supported such alterations in the products produced. Of course, such changes would have become much less popular if the war had lasted longer, since an enormous number of consumer goods was unavailable or in short during the war – everything from gasoline to auto parts, cars were not available, nor stoves nor refridgerators, nor much in the way of consumer hardware.
But, of course, McKibben’s biggest idiocy is his idea of what is required – windmills and solar panels are a really dopey method of producing low carbon power. Nuclear power, especially with the imminent production of molten salt reactors, capable of being built in factories and quickly deployed and costing a fraction of current nuclear power and a very small fraction of wind power, would be the method chosen by those without the enormous ignorance of a McKibben. McKibben is criticized for being a fraud with respect to climate change, but he’s a bigger fool when it comes to his proposed
solutions.

Alan Robertson

“Nuclear power, especially with the imminent production of molten salt reactors…”
———————-
Still vaporgear, at this point.

Alan, remarkably it’s only “vaporgear” because the technology has been blocked by politicians.
Study the Galena Alaska project, a 10mW “nuclear battery” that should have become operational 3 years ago, but was sidelined for unspecified regulatory reasons. Gen IV technology is ready to deploy. Now.

Gamecock

They have been imminent for 60 years.

skorrent1

How idiotic of him to claim that “out-of-touch computer models … screw up government programs” and not realize what is going on now. How much more out-of-touch can climate models be?

Logos_wrench

And all the “deniers” need to be put into concentration camps. Again just like WWII. What is wrong with these nutballs. If anything disproves the liberal fallacy that poverty and education is the problem,it is people like this.

StarkNakedTruth

“…And all the deniers need to be put into concentration camps.”
I’m surprised McKibbon isn’t calling for deniers to be burned at the stake.
Oh wait…massive amounts of CO2 released into the atmosphere. Never mind.

ScienceABC123

Typical progressive/leftist rant – “People won’t do what I want, so the government should force them to!”

Bruce Cobb

Bill seriously needs to stop guzzling the Greenie Koolade, and chillax. I mean, he could give himself a heart attack or stroke or something, and die.
Then who would we laugh at?

Javert Chip

England’s Prince Charles.
God save the queen…please!

DredNicolson

God save the queen; the prince is on his own.

Markon

“At the very least public opposition to government policy would lead to long term internment – incarceration without due process.”
In Canada I envisioned this scenario and named it Suzukulag, after big green supporter David Suzuki, a supposed scientist who lies for the CBC propaganda mill and who has a history of scaring children with terrifying tales of a “man caused” global warming apocalypse. This embarrassment wants to jail global warming dissenters while he maintains several multi-million dollar properties.
The Green Reaper is sharpening it’s scythe. The ban on DDT, and the consequential death of 50 million or so, is nothing but a warm up act.

PiperPaul

Screwzuki’s parents or grandparents were interned during WW2, I think, so he’s just trying to get his revenge on western white man’s society.

DDT is still being produced for malaria control.

Eugene WR Gallun

it should be allowed in the US for bed bug control — an epidemic already. In Portland, Or. one fears to ride the trolley or sit in the public library for fear of picking them up. It has gotten that bad.
Eugene WR Gallun

skorrent1

It’s true that after DDT was banned as too dangerous to use in America, it was still available for export. What a wonderful ad for both the product and the US. “America won’t use that poison on themselves, but they’ll ship it here to kill you!”

MarkW

I’ve been wondering how long until the residents of Miami start demanding it be allowed down there.

MarkW

skorrent1: It was available for export, however US foreign aid was often made contingent on the country receiving the aid, banning DDT.

Take a good look at McKibben there, voters
That is your tax dollars at work. Courtesy of the EPA and a few other agencies along with leftist foundations that keep McKibben well funded.
Want more of your money going to McKibben and other anti-American fascists? Vote Democrat.
Want to see if McKibben and his kind plan on a “night of the long knives”? Vote Democrat.
McKibben is hyper-activist fervent enough to fill the hobnail shoes of historical downright zealous fascists.