Guest essay by Andi Cockroft
In a carefully orchestrated propaganda campaign that is actually flying very low under the radar NZ’s Ministry for the Environment is seeking Public Consultation on just what targets should be set heading into Paris.
The spin is already quite well established, since all the usual pre-conceived “CO2 is bad”, “renewables are good” memes are played out.
With mind-numbing adherence to IPCC doctrine, the documents and slick video presentations attached to the consultation website already lay down the idea that NZ must cut its emissions, with no mention of any supporting science as to why we should cripple our economy.
The earth is heating up (well no its not), sea levels are rising (well no more than they have since the mini ice-age) and mankind is doomed unless urgent action is taken.
So we have NZ’s Government already demonstrating pre-conceived ideas and then looking for Public Consultation to support that.
Here’s their video:-
…and their preconceived propaganda – a 20 page PDF here
Well, perhaps WUWT readers – and certainly the Kiwis amongst us – could deliver a different message to the one they expected.
Submissions must be in either online, or via email to climate.contribution@mfe.govt.nz by 5pm on 3rd June 2015
To read the whole thing, visit the MfE Website here, or simply complete an online submission here. Better yet, download a Word Document file that you can edit to your heart’s content here
Consultative meetings have already started, and I’m sorry I only became aware of these today
How to find out more
Public meetings and hui
Public meetings and hui will be held in the following cities. All meetings and hui are open to everyone. There is no need to RSVP.
| Date | Location | Venue | Type | Time |
| Wednesday 13 May | Nelson | Rutherford Hotel
27 Nile Street West |
Hui | 4:00 pm |
| Public meeting | 6:30 pm | |||
| Wednesday 13 May | Gisborne | Te Tini O Porou
Cnr of Tyndall and Huxley Roads |
Hui/Public meeting | 5:30 pm |
| Thursday 14 May | Invercargill | Ascot Park Hotel
Corner of Tay Street & Racecourse Road |
Public meeting | 2:00 pm |
| Thursday 14 May | Whangarei | Discovery Settlers Hotel
61 – 69 Hatea Drive |
Hui/Public meeting | 5:30 pm |
| Friday 15 May | Hamilton | Hotel Novotel Hamilton Tainui
7 Alma Street |
Public meeting | 2:00 pm |
| Monday 18 May | Rotorua | Copthorne Rotorua
328/348 Fenton Street |
Hui/Public meeting | 5:30 pm |
| Monday 18 May | Auckland | Copthorne Auckland City
150 Anzac Avenue |
Public meeting | 7:00 pm |
| Tuesday 19 May | New Plymouth | Copthorne Hotel Grand Central
42 Powerderham Street |
Public meeting | 11:30 am |
| Hui | 2:30 pm | |||
| Tuesday 19 May | Wellington | The Thorndon Hotel
24 Hawkestone Street |
Public meeting | 7:00 pm |
| Wednesday 20 May | Christchurch | Russley Golf Club and Function Centre
428 Memorial Ave |
Hui | 5:00 pm |
| Public meeting | 7:15 pm | |||
| Thursday 21 May | Dunedin | Kingsgate Hotel Dunedin
10 Smith Street |
Public meeting | 6.30 pm |
Contact for enquiries
You can also find out more by calling the consultation hotline (0800 678 345) or emailing climate.contribution@mfe.govt.nz.
MfE Proffer These Extra Sources:-
You might find the information listed below helpful when preparing your submission. You don’t have to read these; the discussion document provides the key information.
New Zealand’s greenhouse gas inventory 1990–2013 snapshot
A summary of New Zealand’s Greenhouse Gas Inventory 1990-2013
New Zealand’s Sixth National Communication (2013)
Includes current domestic policies and projected emissions out to 2030.
Other useful links
- United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change website
- What is an INDC? [World Resources Institute website]
- Other countries’ INDCs [United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change website]
- IPCC Fifth Assessment Report [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change website]
Hopefully, the NZ government is simply making absolutely certain that by biasing their documentation totally to the politically correct view they cannot be accused of bias, but that the NZ population will present them with a stream of politically invorrect opinion.
Hopefully …
I already wrote to John Key, and told him that NZ should lead the world out of the wilderness, and tell all the Kyoto lookalikes to go and Jump in the Tasman Sea.
And Take our Ausie cobbers with us; screamin’ and hollerin if need be.
G
By having the Kyoto lookalikes jump into the Tasman Sea they would be causing pollution! ( and a smelly one at that!).
Yes Mike but such politically incorrect opinion will just be completely ignored.
It’s the facade of consensus..
It is interesting that Australia and NZ were both, a few years ago, hijacked by leaders who claimed to be rational on CO2 but were phonies sneaking in climate extremist policies.
The Australians fired their fraud, but the one in NZ has managed to avoid being outed, so far.
Rudd and Gillard (Aus PM’s – PantoMimes) were by no means leaders and it is an insult to the senses to call them such. They were bickering themselves, while the Australian economy died. One was more worried about his hair than anything else). Helen Clark (PM, now with a comfy seat at the UN) “screwed” NZ’ers living in Australia on February 26th 2001 by allowing John Howard to make NZ citizens, living, working and paying taxes, temporary residents, ie, second class residents (Special Class Visa 444 visas) and thus not qualifying for Govn’t support. I have been through this immigration process and I would not wish it on anyone. I understand there is going to be a review and re-instate NZ’ers status as permanent residents, just like Aussies are in NZ.
Patrick,
Thanks for the reply but I am not following where your concern sheds light on bad cliamte policy based on CO2 obsessions.
Ok, maybe I wandered off a bit. Australians DID NOT fire the fruadsters as numbers were pretty much even. Climate and RET’s (Renewable Energy Targets) are still policy, just not so vocal and obvious as before. Sure the “proice ohn cahbon” has gone, but emissions policy is still entrenched in Govn’t. Abbott is running the risk of an early election, Paris climate change gabfest happens in September. That’s a big window in politics. The leftist, pro-agw media, are stalking Abbott on every word relating to “climate change”, and they slate him at every chance. I suspect Abbot will call and early election after Paris. He and the LNP coalition may find themselves in opposition.
Patrick:
The Labor Party recorded its lowest two-party preferred vote since 1996 and lowest primary vote since 1931.
This resulted in 90 seats for LNP (Abbott) to 54 seats for Labor and a handful to independents (this is for the Lower House – the house which initiates legislation). Rudd/Gillard were fired quite decisively!
Problem is the Upper House (the Senate or House of review) half Senate election did not give Abbott absolute power to pass legislation (we need both houses to pass legislation which must be initiated in the Lower House)
The LNP, whilst achieving many objectives, behaved a bit like roosters and were easy targets. Bluntly they would not have been able to sell virgins to the proverbial Ammm.
Yes they could lose the next election but they did go to the 2013 election with commitments to established CO2 targets and RET via direct action.
I doubt whether they will call an early election as the current electoral system would only exacerbate the imbalance in the Senate even if they succeeded in winning the Lower House. There are moves afoot to address some of the voting anomalies afflicting the Senate voting ( a bit complex to explain but some Senators, who would not have had a hope in high heaven, were elected. We have a preferential voting system – superb. But some rules were relaxed, by legislation, to accommodate the large number of candidates which then resulted in these loopholes).
It is a tenuous political limb to totally snub the international community on CO2. Not so easy I suggest; slowly, slowly cachee monkee – if Abbott lasts that long.
It was by no way a “lanslide” result. Media like to suggest it was as in the KRudd747 2007 election. Not so! I agree, Abbott has a chore on his hands and 2016 is just a few months away. I do not see Abbott staying as leader of the LNP coalition, I see someone like Turnbull taking that role, sadly, for Australia. I do see a Labor lead federal Govn’t after the next election, sadly.
“Carefully orchestrated propaganda campaign” sums it up neatly, and adds insult to injury. No doubt NZ taxpayers have forked out large sums for scientists and economists to answer this question already, and are now also paying for this charade.
climanrecon:
“No doubt NZ taxpayers have forked out large sums for scientists and economists to answer this question already, and are now also paying for this charade.”
=====================================================
Not so much. So far, we’ve been lucky. Very lucky.
Considering we’ve a population of about 4.5million, (yep, that’s all!) even if we stopped emitting CO2 completely, (which would require everything and everyone including the Pollies to stop breathing) then the annual global CO2 emssions would never notice. It would be unmeasurable.
As it is, any reductions we could make would also be unmeasurable. .
But no one sees that. CLS (Chicken Little Syndrome).
Mike, thanks for the heads up. Unfortunately I can’t make any of the public meetings but will certainly put in a written submission. You never know if it does any good but does make you feel a bit better! They need to know there’s another take on this whole issue.
Sorry, it was Andi’s piece..thanks Andi!
If it is like the consultations held in the UK, then it is a waste of time. The UK Government has to do consultations to tick the right box, but it ignores all points that it disagrees with and that do not fit in with its chosen position. It usually makes minor cosmetic changes to enable it to claim it has taken notice of consultation comments.
Wooow stop!!!.. Hold on… what is happening here. This is a right wing New Zealand government, voted in by farmers and other haters of all things socialist. Are you saying that they have succumbed to the logic of the left? Don’t tell me the hard line right wing PM John Key has listened to his chief science advisor Sir Peter Gluckman. Surely JK knows Sir Peter is there merely to fool the left into thinking he is listening to them. How could he be living in the real world?
No. Key has always been a keen supporter of AGW. Just like Cameron in the UK. I pitty NZ’ers are their economy is struggling, so too Australia, with NZ’ers lliving in Aus returning to NZ because there is, also, nothing here.
Patrick. You need to do some reading. Nz’s economy is very much on the up. Certainly doing better than Australia’s. Perhaps if you are so happy living in Australia you had better stay there. Going to be very interesting to see how Tony Abbott copes with the attention this looming El Nino will bring. Meanwhile I feel comfortable living in a democracy where people are asked their opinion.
Patrick – none of your information concerning New Zealand appears correct. Key was not a supporter of CAGW before he first became prime minister (2008). Indeed, when an opposition MP (2002-2008) he made remarks consistent with being a confirmed sceptic. However, since taking power, he (or more accurately his government) have been low key supporters of CAGW. I believe that the NZ government is simply playing a cowardly game to avoid being branded as deniers by its European trading partners, while waiting for the CAGW scare to blow over. They are also locking in the “pink Tory” vote (what might be called RINOs in the US), i.e. bien-pensant greeny National party supporters. The Nelson electorate of Nick Smith is a good example of this demographic. We have a proportional electoral system, this means governments are reluctant to take positions that go against any widely held “consensus”.
NZ has an Emmissions Trading Act which (in so far as I understand it) in effect taxes all power (including hydro and geothermal electricity, which make up 70-80% of generation) in the name of CAGW. This is of course a highly regressive form of taxation, penalising the poor more than the rich.
New Zealand’s economy is doing well at the moment – it has the fastest grwoth rate of any OECD country. Wages and GDP are growing, inflation is close to zero, unemployment and welfare dependency are trending down. The government will probably be running a surplus about 18 months from now, something most Western governments can only dream of. NZ has been widely described as a “rock star” economy.
I hope that helps to correct your impressions.
“simon
May 14, 2015 at 12:13 pm
Patrick. You need to do some reading. Nz’s economy is very much on the up.”
That is not what my NZ friends are saying.
“Paul Deacon
May 14, 2015 at 1:12 pm
Patrick – none of your information concerning New Zealand appears correct. Key was not a supporter of CAGW…”
Errr, yes he was and yes he still is. But then we are talking about politicians…nuff said!
According to this article, Cameron is far from being an AGW supporter.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/21/david-cameron-green-crap-comments-storm
The China plan is the most workable. Following their lead would surely be acceptable to everyone in question!
+100
+200, a C each!
Oz just had a similar consultative process to NZ and I did suggest we fit in with our major trading partner, ahem…China!! 🙂
In truth though, our Minister is genuinely committed to achieving the targets on CO2.
He seems to give Figueres more time than is warranted given she publicly tells us to get rid of our coal.
And now America is sending aircraft to Aus.
You commented on wattsupwiththat’s link.
New Zealand Government Seeks Public Consultation on Emission Targets
wattsupwiththat.com
New Zealand does not need, nor wants, an Emission Target. It can save from NOT employing a lot of unnecessary public servants as bean counters (carbon usage and CO2 production) and so reduce Government Expenditure on pandering to domestic eco-religious cults and the United Nation’s IPCC.
If America cuts CO2 by 30% by 2030, using IPCC own math, this would reduce global warming by 0.03C by 2100.
Given New Zealand’s population is about 1/63rd that of the U.S., if New Zealand did the same, their “contribution” would be about 0.0005C by 2100….
The world has gone completely insane….
It’s the number of sheep and cows that is the “problem”, apparently.
There isn’t a sheep or people problem, it’s more of a bull problem….
Or maybe the problem is bull?
Kiwis are copy cats.
http://joannenova.com.au/2015/04/last-half-hour-to-add-your-opinion-for-australian-contribution-to-paris-unfccc/
I am a NZ citizen, but live in Aus. Do you think it will be worth submitting my opinion? I was unaware of the Australian version.
If Anthony and mods will allow this OT post to Andi (I know him personally and we worked for the same company in Wellington, NZ). Have not seen you post online for a while (And now I have been banned from facebook). Hope all is well with you matey.
Patrick, it’s definitely worth making a submission, but make sure you note you are a citizen. I expect other non-local submissions will go straight into the bin.
Hi Patrick, Cool mate. I see no reason why you should not have your say from the UK.
Many have commented that this government, just like its predecessor the Clark led Labour one, is so crass arrogant that they do as they please and ride rough shod over public opinion. So many referenda have been ignored – like selling SOE’s for example.
Yet national just had a huge shock by way of the by-election in Northland. A huge swing away from National and into the hands of the renegade Winston Peters, What a rout and a wake-up call for Key.
Oh dear. Old Winston eh, “pulling the punches”. Seen him do that on Courtenay Place, literally (I don’t recall which year). I will lodge my opinion this w/e. All the best to you Andi. (OT, you still in the Landi world?).
I thought it may be of interest to you that some of the people who sold PostBank to ANZ (Remember that?) were the same people who setup KiwiBank (Now also “sold” if I am right). I met some of them once. Appraently the term “civil servant” didn’t apply to them. And I was “told” that in no uncertain terms.
One of the main NZ papers is owned by Fairfax which is a way out leftist company which produces the Age and Sydney Morning Herald both now leftist rags with a strong hatred of Tony Abbot the Australian Prime Minister. I hope the NZ public does not fall for the spin and lies pushed by public servants (with their snouts in the money trough and the socialist fellow travellers.
Before I got fully banned from facebook (FB. Heh! No big loss there), almost ALL of my NZ based FB friends unfriended me because their FB friends didn’t like the fact I held an opposing opinion on AGW “consensus”. Oh well…
While the propaganda is reprehensible it’s another matter of “who cares?” NZ is just a small island nation. In terms of GDP it would not even make the top 50% of U.S. States, coming in along with such international powerhouses as South Carolina and Kentucky. Going into Paris the big thing is that China and India will have no part of serious reductions, and Germany, Great Britain and Canada will laugh at any draconian proposals. Russia will play the U.S. and Obama and Kerry for the Rubes that they are, and the whole thing will be a farce, so again, who cares? Let a few commies on an island spew their nonsense to the point that it finally blows up in their faces.
I think NZ’ers would care if Key commited NZ to emissions targets and systematic and deliberate destruction of their economy. Hey, they pay enough taxes as it is. When I migrated to NZ in 1995, that year the UK received, in road fund license fees (Road tax) for private vehicles ALONE, about ~75% of the value of the GDP of NZ. So yes, small potatos.
Oh dear climate change scammers, how have you managed to fool so many? is this the generation of the naive? When will this ever end?
@ Charlie. It is the result of a “dumbing” down of a generation that are now in their late thirties early forties. As a parent of those I have seen this coming for 25 years, no matter how much we (as parents in PAC’s and board members) tried to stop it, it was a scary thing to watch, homeschooling made up for it.
If they are anything like the political meet and greets here in the states, you can be sure that the meetings will be pre-packed with political supporters and anyone who looks like they might disagree with the pre-set agenda will find it very difficult to get in.
Tell them to bring back whaling. Whale oil is natural. Deliver each one of them a sheep (for those cold lonely nights)
Sorry, wrong spot. Meant to add to my comment under
Consultation from the public means they have already decided. Throw a spanner in the works and tell them you want 100% reduction. Tell them you want to be a hobbit.
Hobbits had more sense, they stopped that guy building huge towers all over the place from imposing global government on them.
No Alex. I prefer to breathe. It’s more comfortable.
This is the Delphi Technique — weaponized.
It is designed to create the illusion of participation, input, and consensus when in fact the decision has already been made.
It also serves as a powerful rear-guard action.
To counter it you follow their path to the extreme. When they are forced to disclose the results , it will appear that they have been influenced by extreme radicals.
You realise ‘Weepy Bill’ is really a skeptic.
The NZ government brochure is a very politically correct document. If we look through it we can see they show very little imagination or creative tendencies. For example, they could ask the public if they thought financing investments to help hydropower developments in other nations was acceptable. This option has pretty good earnings potential if it’s done in a country with the right geography and business need.
It is a sort of manipulation. They start calling it a problem and then asks for solutions.
It takes a lot of guts to ask if it at all is a problem and in what way, that need some measures.
Only very few would suggest no target, as you are asked for a target.
Their graphic on the road to the future clouds out the depopulation and misery that accompanies a genocidal policy of negative economic growth. Just what the doctor ordered.
Is there a kiwi out there who is more adept at putting together submissions than me who can create a “form” submission.
The more people that make submissions the better. How much influence we would have who knows? I do agree that a decision has already been made but there is no harm in trying.
I’m not sure whether I am more adept than you, but will give it a go. I have given up on writing letters to the NZ Herald, which will not publish any anti-AGW stuff, and when I complained to my Member of Parliament Jamie-Lee Ross about the obvious governmental bias he sent a form letter which contradicted my statement that there had been no global warming for 18 years by stating that there were 2 contradictory sets of figures. Obviously they believe the figures provided by Chief Science Advisor Gluckman (a paediatric doctor) than those of the many experts who contradict AGW theories. Well, I suppose Gluckman is no worse than a certain Indian Railways Engineer! I have referred J-L R to WUWT, but doubt whether he would ever follow it up and read a few pages!
Pollspotting: Another Poll Goes Horribly Wrong.
Have fun everybody, make sure they know they can not do this because “everybody knows” it “needs to be done”.
h/t to Kate at SDA
Patrick
I live in the Northland electorate and voted for Winston in the by-election. I cast my first vote at the 1966 general election and in all that time I’ve never been as pleased with a result. It’s only the second time I’ve voted NZ First, the previous occasion was a protest vote against the odious John Banks in the Whangarei electorate in the mid-1990s, so I’m a long way from being anti-National.
I don’t know how you form any of your political opinions, but I’d have to say I’ve never seen, on this forum, such a series of clangers. Paul Deacon has got it right.
And the idea that Abbott will call an election after Paris is a complete flight of fancy. Why after Paris? Climate change is not a game-breaker in Australian politics.
I went to the Auckland meeting last nite ( conspiracy theorists might wonder that the venue was changed at the last minute to the Rendevous Hotel) .
I’d like to apologise to all realists – the meeting was so full of loudmouthed eco loons that completely shouted down the one brave guy who tried to point out the propaganda in the printout – that I chickened out from saying the same .
I can report that the ecoloons were in full flight with the general consensus being ( from speaker after speaker) that NZ must commit to reducing all emissions by 40% by 2020.
You gotta laugh .
I wanted to ask how – do they suggest killing very cow and sheep in NZ or banning cars and planes ??
The ignorance was gobsmacking .
One loon stood up and and said we should abandon all cows and only allow chicken farming – I kid you not .
I wanted to ask – how would she suggest we milk chickens to keep the economy from collapsing .
The “Professor ” stood up and said “when we get to 4degree warming ” blah blah .
I mean – 4degrees – where on any paper published anywhere does it even begin to look like we’ll ever get to 4 degrees warmer ??? What are the chances ??
Another professor stood up to point out Climate is changing and hurricanes , floods and droughts were so much worse thanks to global warming
Note : Floods and droughts .
I mean – what global warming ??? – there is none so how can it have caused any floods and droughts and surely a professor would take the time to read up on the subject before speaking – to discover there is no increase in any of these weather related events .
This is the complete rubbish being reguritated at these meetings .
II am a coward – sorry everyone .
Don’t feel too bad. I salute you for just turning up.
It had crossed my mind to go to the Whangarei meeting but the very thought of being alone in a room full of econazis turned my spine to jelly. Plus an hour’s drive each way holds no appeal.
I may be wrong about being alone, though. Provincial New Zealand, apart from the Coromandel, seems less enthused with the Greens than are central city types. Lord Monckton filled the top floor of the Okara Park rugby grandstand on a Sunday four or more years ago and packed out a smaller venue for a midweek meeting at the city library a couple of years later.
I’m interested to know how the meetings go in the smaller centres.
Yeah, lots of echo loons and shouting, weeping, emotion at last night’s Wellington meeting too. Crazy stuff being spouted. The venue was changed at the last minute to a nearby girls school due to numbers. A total fact free zone. Rational thinking and facts definitely not welcome
I went the New Plymouth’s meeting today. There were 23 members of the public in the room if I counted correctly. 21 on the side of ‘we need a bigger emissions target’, and 40% reduction by 2030 was proposed by the green MP. She sat next to me. There was only me and one other guy on the ‘we don’t need any emissions target’ side. The green MP put a vote to the meeting. It was obviously 21 to 2. The discussion went way off topic at times. Even into the psychological benefits of organic farming and gardening. Both me and the other guy were able to put our points to the meeting. But as others here have said, it was really a wasted effort.
I salute your bravery nzrobin , well done for speaking up .
This “discussion ” is turning into “ecoloon ” field days where they can all piss on each others backs .