Wake Up Australia, we are becoming Green and Defenceless

Guest opinion by Viv Forbes

As Australia’s industrial capacity declines, Australia is becoming green and defenceless.

History holds lessons.

Back in Dec 1941, Japan suddenly attacked the huge US Naval base at Pearl Harbour. Three days later, two “invincible” British warships, “Repulse” and “Prince of Wales” were sunk by Japanese planes off Malaya. Soon Japanese armies were rampaging through Asia towards Australia. By Feb 1942, the British fortress of Singapore surrendered and Japanese bombs were falling on Darwin. By Sept 1942 the Japanese army had slashed their way down the Kokoda Track and could see the lights of Port Moresby. They were looking across Torres Strait to Australia. At that time, most of our trained soldiers were fighting Rommel in North Africa or in Japanese prison camps.

Suddenly Australia was on its own and needed to defend itself with what we had here.

Armies need soldiers, weapons, bullets, vehicles, fuel, food, alcohol (and cigarettes).

Soldiers volunteered and were conscripted. Australian conscripts formed part of the force that met the Japanese on the Kokoda Track.

Enfield Rifles, Bren Guns and Vickers Machine Guns were produced in large numbers at the Small Arms Factory at Lithgow supported by feeder factories in the area. Britain lost so many weapons at Dunkirk that Australian factories were sending guns to them. We could not do that now.

Motor oil was produced in limited quantities from oil shale at Glen Davis, but petrol was in serious short supply, and had been rationed since 1940. With the fall of Singapore, this shortage became severe, and charcoal burners suddenly appeared to keep cars and trucks moving. Kerosene was scarce so carbide lights were widely used. The demand for charcoal was so great that firewood became scarce so it was also rationed.

To conserve supplies for soldiers, rationing was introduced for tea, clothing, butter, sugar, meat and cigarettes. Hotels were only allowed to serve alcohol twice a day for one hour at a time of their choosing.

An immediate critical shortage was copper for cartridge cases and communications – Australia had mines producing lead, zinc, silver, gold and iron, but there was a critical shortage of copper.

Fortuitously, just before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, an exploration drill hole at Mount Isa had struck rich copper ore.

Mount Isa was called on to avert a calamitous shortage of copper in Australia. With government encouragement, Mount Isa Mines made the brave decision to suspend the profitable silver/lead/zinc operations and convert all mining and treatment facilities to extracting copper.

The lead concentrator could be converted to treat copper ore, but the biggest problem was how to smelt the copper concentrates. Luckily the company had skilled engineers and metallurgists in the lead smelter. In a miracle of improvisation, scrap steel and spare parts were purchased and scavenged from old mines and smelters from Cloncurry, Mt Elliott, Mt Cuthbert and Kuridala and cobbled into a workable copper smelter. In 1943 the first Mount Isa blister copper was produced. Production continued after the war when Mount Isa returned to extracting the then more profitable silver/lead/zinc. Later new plant was built enabling both lead and copper metal to be produced from this fabulous mine.

This story of the importance of self-reliance has lessons for today.

The war on carbon energy, the carbon tax, the renewable energy targets, escalating electricity costs and the voices in Parliament calling for Emissions Trading Schemes have all unnerved our big users of carbon fuels and electricity. Smelting and refining have become threatened industries in Australia, and closure of the Mount Isa copper smelter and the Townsville copper refinery has been foreshadowed. Already six major metal smelting/refining operations have closed in Australia this century and more are likely. The closures have affected copper, lead, zinc, steel and aluminium – the sinews of modern industry. And the car industry, with all its skills and tools, is closing.

More and more land and offshore waters are totally closed to exploration and mining. Offshore exploration for oil is very limited, except in the north-west. On land, there is no exploration in green no-go areas and the “lock-the-gate” rent-a-crowd are trying to prevent gas explorers from drilling even on their own exploration tenements. Local production and refining of oil is also declining, and it was estimated recently that by next year, half of Australia’s oil refining capacity will have closed. In the event of a disruption to tanker routes, Australia has just 12 days of diesel supplies before city fuel and food supplies start to dry up. Will we see charcoal burners on cars and trucks once again?

Heavy industry is scorned, and is migrating to Asia. We are losing the resources, skills and machinery needed for our own security, while we fritter away precious resources on green energy, direct action, carbon capture and storage and other pointless anti-carbon chimeras.

Our foolish green energy policies and the suicidal war on carbon fuels are killing real industry leaving us unskilled and defenceless – like a fat toothless walrus basking on a sunny beach.

Wake up Australia.

For those who would like to read more:

Australian Fuel supplies very vulnerable to disruption. Food and Fuel Chaos within days:


“Mines in the Spinifex – the Story of Mount Isa Mines” by Geoffrey Blainey, Angus and Robertson, 1960

“The Challenge of Standing on the Shoulders of Giants” by Collin Myers, Congress of the International Mining History Association, Charters Towers, 2014


Viv Forbes, 11/11/14

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Ian W
December 6, 2014 6:50 am

There will come a time when the actions of the anti-industry greens will be seen for what they are – sedition. Their claim that they are saving the planet has no scientific merit, they are Malthusians destroying civilization.

Flyover Bob
Reply to  Ian W
December 6, 2014 8:56 am

You unjustly defame Malthus! He accurately described the conditions of his time. He should be praised for sounding the alarm. Rational people set about to alter those perameters. The only things that keep those conditions from returning are hard work and innovation.

Ian W
Reply to  Flyover Bob
December 6, 2014 9:18 am

He was wrong though – look at the population now compared to his ‘time’ which was at the end of the Little Ice Age. Since then it has warmed out of the little ice age, then with industrialization the world has started to be rescued from a critical shortage of CO2. With the increase in CO2 greening the deserts and increasing the fecundity of forests and vegetation ending the shortages of food that Malthus followed by Ehrlich’s “population bomb” were concerned about. Population on the Earth is not increasing geometrically as Malthus claimed it is actually starting to stabilize it has stabilized not due to lack of food – but to the greater availability of energy and health care. Meanwhile, food supplies are increasing and many farmers in US and Europe are actually paid not to produce crops. The major reason for loss of forestation is the encroachment of green driven bio-fuel plantations. Search the internet on humans being a cancer on the Earth, you will see many who hold to that view and would return the Earth to less (sometimes far less) than a billion people, which seem to always include them and their families. It is these greens who see a return to the agriculture and technology of Malthus’ time as Utopian and will now do anything to force it.

Brian H
Reply to  Flyover Bob
December 6, 2014 10:49 am

Industrialization can take credit for many things, but CO2 is following the 800-yr lag since the Medieval Warm Period, and rising with sea temps just like it’s supposed to.

Silver ralph
Reply to  Flyover Bob
December 6, 2014 11:21 am

Just because Malthus was ahead of his time, does not mean he was wrong. There have been many civilisations down the milennia, who failed to maintain their society, production and technology, and sucummed to famine and a steep polulation decline.
Look at Western Rome, as the Germanic tribes began to invade, and the centralised authority lost control. The population decline was precipitous. Look at Syria, when the Muslims took control in the 8th century, leaving 700 Dead Cities in their wake around Aleppo alone. Look at Angkor Wat, the largest Medieval city complex in the world. Its decline has been blamed on climate change or a change in religion, but whatever the cause the irrigation system became unusable and the society was destroyed.
As soon as political control is lost, the system can no longer maintain itself. So the presence of raw materials in the ground or fields ready for planting is of no benefit whatsoever, if the political and social organisation cannot extract, process or use them. And we are as secure in our future, as the Kmer Cambodians of the 15th century were.
The Dead Cities of Aleppo.
the ruins of Angkor Wat.

Reply to  Flyover Bob
December 6, 2014 12:19 pm

Perhaps the Greens who see massive population reduction as a necessity for earth could volunteer …….. or be conscripted …….

Reply to  Flyover Bob
December 6, 2014 3:10 pm

Malthus was a clueless idiot. He used poor math on even worse data to come up with a conclusion that even people in his own time thought wooly. Look up Fabian socialism to see from where Malthus’ ideologies (idiotologies?) came.
He was just another of the elite wanting to get rid of the “undesirables” or “the wrong kind of people” in order to paper his own nest.
Our civilization needs to destroy the malevolent misanthropic Malthusians, not the other way ’round.

Leonard Lane
Reply to  Ian W
December 6, 2014 10:22 am

Spot on! +1

Reply to  Ian W
December 6, 2014 2:15 pm

The failure of greens is due in part to their socialist ideology, which philosopher R.T. Allen traces back through Hegel to Gnosticism. [1]. Although most greens claim to be secular, they have fallen for the oldest religion in human experience: worship of the earth.
This is confirmed when it is realized that most green demands converge on the same set of solutions: collectivist policies, more government, and less personal liberty.
Socialism used to be justified on the claim that we all would be more prosperous when we all live at the expense of everyone else. Now it is justified on the claim that society would be more “equitable”.
[1] see From Flew, Marx and Gnosticism, by R.T. Allen, Philosophy Vol 68, No 263, (Jan, 1993), pp. 94-98)

Reply to  buckwheaton
December 6, 2014 2:32 pm

“Socialism used to be…when we all live at the expense of everyone else. Now it is…more “equitable”.
How long before people realize that splitting the pie “equally” results in less pie, because the splitters take half of it.

Reply to  buckwheaton
December 6, 2014 3:17 pm

Not sure if this will thread correctly, I’m replying to Jorge,
Years ago in a galaxy far, far, oops, I mean 5th grade, I had a libtard (NH?) teacher explain to the class that in our wonderful great society (LBJ was prez) that if we want a bigger piece of the pie, they just make the pie bigger. A troublemaker, er, skeptic (me) asked, “what happens when you run out of pie, or ingredients”…
The teacher didn’t like that, nor did she have an answer to it. I did get to think about it in the principal’s office for a while, though…50 years ago… some things never change, especially in Kalifornistan…

Sun Spot
Reply to  buckwheaton
December 6, 2014 8:01 pm

buckwheaton; you are conflating socialism, philosophy and religion! This is about none of these, it is about “Green Ideology” and MONEY MONEy MONey MOneyMoney money, follow the money and the money point to capitalist extremism as much as anything else. Keep in mind that all extremist ideologies lead to the same place whether they be socialism, capitalism communism or fascism.

Santa Baby
Reply to  buckwheaton
December 7, 2014 10:57 pm

If I have to share I will do that only with those that have more to share than I do?

Jim Francisco
Reply to  Ian W
December 7, 2014 7:25 am

II agree with Ian W. His statement “Their claim that they are saving the planet has no scientific merit” needs much discussion because I think, as do many others, that many scientists are just using CAGW to stop or reduce population growth and industry. Let’s argu the merits of those notions some more. What are the facts?

johann wundersamer
Reply to  Jim Francisco
December 8, 2014 7:55 am

jorge, jeff – in a galaxy far, far …
made me smile.
similar situation, in times as far away I got the german reply ‘gefährliche Halbbildung’.
My poor translation ‘dangerous semi-education’.
T’was dangerous these day’s. Education.
Times ago and worlds apart.
Thanks for reminding – Hans

Mike Bromley the Kurd
December 6, 2014 6:52 am

The weakening promulgated by fat bureaucratic walruses in the seats of power.

Reply to  Mike Bromley the Kurd
December 6, 2014 9:36 am

You are more correct than you recognize since Australia, and the State of Queensland and its New Basics Project have been piloting the global transdisciplinary K-12 education paradigm as explained in detail here. http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/opting-out-as-the-remedy-may-mean-accidentally-accelerating-nonconsensual-transformations/
When the focus is altering mental models and how students view reality, it is so much easier to push these state-led dirigiste visions of transforming economies and societies. Reality though is still there waiting to dictate the actual consequences of all these schemes.
What Queensland piloted is now coming to the US and Canada via the 21st Century Learning paradigms dictated in frameworks attached to the Common Core State Standards and the Next Generation Science Standards. And already retired taxpayer-funded pensions get augmented by $3-4000 a day consulting charges to push all this.
No telling what Michael Fullan’s speaking fee is by now. You can bet he is not flying coach from Toronto either.

December 6, 2014 6:53 am

Truer words were never spoken.

C.M. Carmichael
December 6, 2014 7:01 am

Get a good Vegan cookbook, when the food riots start, catch, clean and cook the Vegans, they are free range, lean, grain fed and pesticide free. Best of all they are weak and easy to catch, you can use compost for bait.

Dave Fales
Reply to  C.M. Carmichael
December 6, 2014 7:54 am

My smile for the day. Thank you.

Reply to  C.M. Carmichael
December 6, 2014 8:23 am

I don’t know about that “pesticide free” bit. There aren’t really many controls over what constitutes organic and “pesticide free” usually means free from synthetic pesticides (as opposed to organic pesticides).
Synthetic pesticides are manufactured to exacting specifications and have been rigorously tested to demonstrate their safety. Organic pesticides are assumed safe because they are organic and specifications are usually lacking.

James the Elder
Reply to  Taphonomic
December 6, 2014 1:52 pm

If THC was a pesticide, a lot of our mutual problems would vanish.

Reply to  Taphonomic
December 6, 2014 2:45 pm

I’m more concerned about Ecstasy (MDMA) content than THC. That stuff is horrible.

Reply to  Taphonomic
December 6, 2014 5:19 pm

Actually THC and its co product CBD kills cancer. According to the US government:
If you want more look up “cannabis kills cancer” . The US government has known this since 1974 and ordered the information suppressed as much as possible to continue prohibition. Targeting the young, the poor, and Blacks. And willing to kill 500,000 cancer victims a year to keep it going.
“Look, we understood we couldn’t make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue…that we couldn’t resist it.” – John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale of the War on Drugs.

Reply to  Taphonomic
December 6, 2014 6:43 pm

M Simon
None of the “cannabis kills cancer” claims are credible. At all. Credibility is more important than the claim.

Reply to  Taphonomic
December 6, 2014 6:54 pm

‘Rigorously tested to demonstrate their safety’? – lmfao!

Reply to  Taphonomic
December 7, 2014 5:20 am

December 6, 2014 at 6:43 pm
Well the lab data is there. Cannabis is antiproliferative, antiangiogenic, antimetastatic, and apoptotic in relation to cancer. There are no reputable human trials because governments around the world, due to Prohibition, don’t allow them. But there are data points. And lots of anecdotes.
Now why not allow the trials if governments are so sure it won’t work? Because if it does work all these governments are complicit in mass murder on a scale that would make even Mao envious.
Watch the fist 8 minutes of the first video here:
The article itself deals with some human trials. Also look up “biochemist Dennis Hill cancer”.

Reply to  Taphonomic
December 7, 2014 9:10 pm

Except that report is badly biased. It is illegal to use any material as a pesticide, natural, or synthetic, unless it has been registered for that use. A pesticide can only be registered for use after rigorous testing and an MSDS attests to any potential hazards attendant on their use.
Thus the organically acceptable potassium soap used for killing aphids and, incidentally, a manufactured, not naturally occurring material, you must use an approved product such as Safers, or Hitman. If you use SWMBO’s dishwashing liquid, you are breaking the law!
Naturally occurring pesticides such as Dipel (bacillus thuringiensis var. berliner), while they are extremely toxic to caterpillars are completely safe for the agricultural worker and the consumer of the product it’s used on. Here’s an extract from the MSDS:

Acute Toxicity: No adverse health effects are expected if this product is used in accordance with the
label. Poisoning is unlikely to occur.
Signs and Symptoms of Systemic Effects: Direct contact with eyes may cause mild irritation.
Inhalation of dust may result in respiratory tract irritation
Eye: Non-Irritant
Skin: Non-Irritant and non-sensitizer
Ingestion: Not a likely route of exposure
Inhalation: Not a likely route of exposure

It is certainly true that the LD50 of vinegar for rats is 1/60 of glyphosate, Monsanto’s popular herbicide, but I note that there are no restrictions on the amount of vinegar you can use in a food product. I doubt that you would ever receive permission to use glyphosate directly in a food for human consumption. Of course, since you believe the tosh you linked to, you might want to make your pickles with synthetic herbicides. I’ll stick to vinegar for killing weeds except when I’m using citric acid.

Reply to  Taphonomic
December 7, 2014 9:21 pm

@ M Simon
I can attest to the anti inflammatory effect of CBD. And there are none of the unwanted, deleterious side-effects of prednisolone, the only other drug that as efficacious at managing my osteoarthritic pain. If it also reduces my chances of contracting cancer, that’s a bonus. Nice article in The Scientist on the state of play in the field:

Reply to  C.M. Carmichael
December 6, 2014 11:18 am

trouble is they are full of sh1t

Reply to  Leo Smith
December 6, 2014 1:10 pm


Reply to  C.M. Carmichael
December 6, 2014 5:57 pm

LOL, but they lack Vit.B.12 and have serious intellectual problems because of it. Mad diseases.

Reply to  bushbunny
December 6, 2014 6:36 pm

Hi bushbunny, that is so funny. Hope you are well.

Reply to  C.M. Carmichael
December 7, 2014 2:09 pm

Thanks for making my day!

Richard Ilfeld
December 6, 2014 7:04 am

And this is not different from the US.
Perhaps less subtle —
We have shut down our rare earths mines and depend on China; we buy our rocket motors from Russia
thus ceding the high ground to our adversaries. People in wonderment that we can’t build Keystone and
move oil safely ignore the stupidity of our inability to transport plentiful water to our most prolific agricultural
ares on the west coast. We get out Veggies from Mexico and our Orange Juice from Brazil. We support tugs around the world because we still import their energy (unless the administration actually prefers thugs to the civilized). We’ll scrap the A-10 (the most effective ground support aircraft, ever) and pour money into the F-35, likely to see most of its action on pedestal mount display at base entrances, given how poorly it flys. Customers who no better are recycling their money into f-18s. We focus attention on an overweight unfortunate dying in a confrontation with the police, ignoring the stupidity of the government that created the locally unique crime of selling single ciggies he was busted for, and elevated it to task force importance.
Oh yeah, our Secretary of Stupidity thinks “Climate Change’s the biggest problem facing the world. As did your former PM. As Bugs would say “Maroons!”
We English speakers have a lot to share. G’day, mates. “That’s the way it is, December 6, 2014”.

Joshua Pike
Reply to  Richard Ilfeld
December 6, 2014 7:12 am

Does Obama literally want to bring the USA to its knees? I ask this as an outsider because each time I read another news article about Obama’s slow disemboweling of the country, I think to myself that perhaps he is taking systematic action, as part of a grand design… then I fear I may be straying into conspiratorial domain.
Ignorant-but-ready-to-learn Millennial.

Reply to  Joshua Pike
December 6, 2014 8:03 am

It’s certainly been a topic for debate. Harder to find people to debate with lately.

Reply to  Joshua Pike
December 6, 2014 8:33 am

If he didn’t, what exactly would he be doing differently?

Reply to  Joshua Pike
December 6, 2014 8:33 am

I read a blog by Elena Filatova, a Ukranian photojournalist- http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/index.html She see the leaders of the west as puppets of the elite.
A real “view from the trenches”, I think.

Reply to  Joshua Pike
December 6, 2014 9:38 am

My view, in short is that our corporations and the uber-wealthy own the US government. 4 billion dollars was spent on the last election and the number I heard was that this 4 billion was donated by .2% (yes the decimal is in the right place) of the population. And over the last four years, I read somewhere that the lobbyists in Washington have been paid another six billion. We now have the best government money can buy.
So who really is to blame for the fisacos of our nation when our government is bought lock stock and barrel by a tiny percent of our population? Follow the money.

Joe Crawford
Reply to  Joshua Pike
December 6, 2014 10:31 am

I’m reminded of a news broadcast after a plane crash a few years back. The news reporter was interviewing one of the survivors. When she asked him how he managed to get out of the fiery cabin he said that he just saw a light through the smoke and ran toward it, climbing over whomever or what ever was in his way. A little shocked, she asked him about the other people left in the plane. He replied:
“You just have to get what you can get when you can get it”.
This seems to be the attitude of the Wall Street crowd, Hollywood and a lot of the public (as opposed to private) business community (i.e. Make the numbers for this quarter and screw the future, you can fix that later). Any short term edge (e.g advantage) you can buy right now will put money in your pocket, rather than your competition’s.

Leonard Lane
Reply to  Joshua Pike
December 6, 2014 10:37 am

Obama promised three major things before he was elected. 1) socialized medicine–done, 2) a civilian police force as well armed and powerful as the military–nearly there, and 3) to fundamentally transform the country–done.
Our military is on track to reach pre WW II levels soon, our coal industry is being forced out, there has been no increase in jobs for American workers since 2000 (Bush and Obama both supported open borders and influx of untold millions of illegal aliens), violence in the streets is a government program to seize more and more power for Obama and the radical leftists (ever notice how occupy wall street ended just after Obama’s 2012 re-election) and now the occupy organizers and fanning the anti-police riots and demonstrations, etc. etc.
Obama, like other dictators we have known, has done his best to do the things he promised. He is not incompetent, he is evil.

Greg Cavanagh
Reply to  Joshua Pike
December 6, 2014 11:45 am

He said he wanted to cripple America and increase the cost of living, before the election.
He didn’t lie about his intentions, but he’s lied through his teeth to make it happen.
This was one of the first youtubes created soon after his election.
7 lies in 2 minutes.

Reply to  Joshua Pike
December 6, 2014 1:06 pm

That’s what I believe. “Rules for Radicals” by his buddy Saul Alinsky appears to be the blueprint.

Reply to  Richard Ilfeld
December 6, 2014 8:43 am

Right On

Brian H
Reply to  Richard Ilfeld
December 6, 2014 11:00 am

Don’t be too hard on American rocket and space entrepreneurs; SpaceX is building superior gear at <½ the price of the old Atlas Russian rockets, and even undercuts the Chinese. The Dragon2 capsule is superior to the Orion, and can maneuver from orbit to landing, designed to land wherever it wants, including its own launch pad. SpaceX's re-usable rockets will be unique, and cut the cost to orbit by 100 – 1000X. When NASA finally shoots for Mars in 2030 (if it's lucky), it will find colonies of Musk's Martians waiting for them. Etc.

Reply to  Brian H
December 6, 2014 1:48 pm


Reply to  Richard Ilfeld
December 6, 2014 2:49 pm

Greg Cavanagh
December 6, 2014 at 11:45 am
Thanks for the reminder in the video. I have not forgotten and I’ll never forget.

David S
December 6, 2014 7:14 am

As an Aussie I am pleased we have a conservative government. However I would hate to waste the opportunity to lead the world on climate change. Let’s not pretend that global warming exists,and that direct action is doing something about it. Let’s follow the Chinese and promise that we will continue to increase emitting CO2 for the next 16 years. The greenies said that agreement showed that the Chinese are serious about doing something on climate change . I think we should be just as serious.
I think the government should admit its sceptical and run a TV campaign promoting that there has been a pause, that none of the models are right and that spending billions of dollars to change it won’t make any difference.
I think a series of debates should also be held . The ABC could hold them .it might be illuminating for their audience to actually find out that the science isn’t settled. This could be a role model for how the charter against bias is managed.
If we get another Labor / Greens government in 2 years time I will have to emigrate overseas as our country will become a banana republic .

Reply to  David S
December 6, 2014 7:41 am

You country won’t become a Banana Republic, it will be more like a Totalitarian Banana Dictatorship David. There is a big difference, IMO.

Reply to  Bobby Davis
December 6, 2014 2:12 pm

No David B the ABC could NOT hold the debate………..marginalize them…..no skeptic would be able to start or finish an answer if they were in charge.
Make it an independent open production.

Arno Arrak
Reply to  David S
December 6, 2014 8:53 am

That green plague is everywhere – Australia, Europe, America. They have taken over scientific organizations, scientific publications, and political power which is used to enforce their insanity. It is an insanity because their main effort is aimed at stopping the use of fossil fuels essential for an industrialized society. If successful it will mean the end of our civilization. Some of their leaders that are presently in high administrative positions like Holdren have even expressed the desire to do that in the past. The fairy tale we are told is that increasing carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will warm up the world and lead to a holocaust. The pseudo-science cooked up to support this stupidity is demonstrably untrue. To show just how wrong their claim is you don’t have to do anything but pay attention to global temperature. It so happens that there is no warming now and there has been none for the last 18 years. Kids graduating from high school this year have never experienced warming during their entire lifetimes. But what does IPCC, the alleged “guardian” of world temperature say about it? For each of the past 18 years they have forecasted warming. And why do they do that? There is no secret about it. They say that their greenhouse theory, first announced by Arrhenius in 1896, says so because atmospheric carbon dioxide kept increasing during these 18 years. The last part is true, but the predicted warming simply did not show up. If you are a scientist and a theory predicts warming but you get nothing at all for 18 years in a row you are justified in tossing this theory into the waste basket of history. Their claim that this theory is based on the radiation laws of physics is simply false. What we need is a greenhouse theory that is not in conflict with the laws of physics. Such a theory is the Miskolczi greenhouse theory, MGT. It differs from the Arrhenius theory in being able to handle more than one greenhouse gas simultaneously absorbing in the infraed band. Arrhenius can only handle one – carbon dioxide – and is incomplete because carbon dioxide is not even the most important greenhouse gas in the atmosphere. According to MGT, The two most importantngreenhouse gases, carbon dioxide and water vapor, form a joint optimum absorption window in the IR. Its optical thickness is fixed at 1.87, determined by Miskolczi from first principles. If you now add carbon dioxide to the atmosphere it will start to absorb in the IR just as the Arrhenius theory predicts. But this will increase the optical thickness. And as soon as this happens, water vapor will begin to diminish, rain out, and the original optical thickness is restored. The added carbon dioxide will of course continue to absorb but the reduction of water vapor keeps total absorption constant and no warming is possible. This warming that did not happen would have been called greenhouse warming by the Arrhenius theory we just dumped in the waste basket of history. Since greenhouse warming is said to be the cause of anthropogenic global warming or AGW it follows that there is no such thing as AGW. It is nothing more than a pseudo-scientific fantasy, cooked up by some over-eager climate workers to justify their greenhouse hypothesis. It does not exist but nevertheless it is used by the global warming movement as justification of their war on carbon dioxide. This being the case, there is absolutely no reason for emission controls or restrictions on burning fossil fuels because carbon dioxide is not the cause of any global warming they want to stop. All existent laws, regulations, and rules based on this fairy tale were introduced under false premises and must be rescinded. And those responsible for promoting and supporting this pseudo-scientific farce should be fired for incompetence.

Reply to  Arno Arrak
December 6, 2014 9:45 am

Yes, all the World’s Science Academies, ALL Scientific Professional Societies, all major universities, NASA and NOAA — who conclude ‘Earth is Warming, Man is The Cause, and the net effects are likely to be strongly negative — should be purged of scientists just as the Nazis did in WWII.
Then we would be left with the anti-science amateurs who can, I’m sure, employ their mysticism or witchcraft to develop all the new technologies needed by the world.
What a great idea.

Reply to  Arno Arrak
December 6, 2014 10:19 am

warrenlb will never get it through his head that his constant ‘appeals to authority’ is a logical fallacy.
But if it weren’t for logical fallacies, warrenlb wouldn’t have much to say.

David A
Reply to  Arno Arrak
December 6, 2014 10:33 am

It is curious how Warren believes all the absurd alarmist predictions, which failed to happen, because some political leaders of Post Normal institutions support them.

Brian H
Reply to  Arno Arrak
December 6, 2014 11:06 am

There’s an 800-yr lag of CO2 following global temperature. 800 yrs ago, there came the Medieval Warm Period. Duh.

Reply to  Arno Arrak
December 6, 2014 4:34 pm

As a climate science researcher, I don’t think much about appeals to authority.
I also don’t think much of these “scientists” who think I should be called a d*… :

Mark Boslough, Physicist
David Morrison, Director of the Carl Sagan Center for the Study of Life in the Universe, at the SETI Institute
Bill Nye, CEO the Planetary Society
Ann Druyan, Writer/producer;  CEO, Cosmos Studios
Ken Frazier, Editor, Skeptical Inquirer
Barry Karr, Exec Director, Committee for Skeptical Inquiry
Amardeo Sarma, Committee for Skeptical Inquiry Executive Council, Chairman GWUP (Germany)
Sir Harold Kroto, Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Ronald A. Lindsay, President & CEO Committee for Skeptical Inquiry and Center for Inquiry
Kenneth R. Miller, Professor of Biology, Brown University
Christopher C. French, Dept of Psychology, Goldsmiths University of London
Daniel C. Dennett, Center for Cognitive Studies, Tufts University
Massimo Pigliucci,  Professor of Philosophy at CUNY-City College
Douglas Hofstadter, Director, The Center for Research on Concepts and Cognition, Indiana University
Stephen Barrett, Co-founder of the National Council Against Health Fraud (NCAHF), and the webmaster of Quackwatch
Scott O. Lilienfeld, Professor, Department of Psychology, Emory University
Terence Hines, Dept of Psychology, Pace University
James Randi, President James Randi Educational Foundation
Seth Shostak, Senior Astronomer and Director of the Center for SETI Research
Joe Nickell, Senior Research Fellow, Committee for Skeptical Inquiry
Henri Broch, Physicist, Emeritus, University Nice Sophia Antipolis, France
Eugenie C. Scott, Chair, Advisory Council, National Center for Science Education
Edzard Ernst, Professor of Medicine, Emeritus, University of Exeter, UK
Indre Viskontas, Cognitive Neuroscientist, Host Inquiring Minds Podcast
David J.  Helfand, Professor of Astronomy, Columbia University
Mario Mendez-Acosta, Journalist, Science Writer, Mexico City
Cornelis de Jager, Astrophysicist,  Past President, International Council for Science
Sanal Edamaruku, President, Rationalist International
Loren Pankratz, Psychologist, Portland VA Medical Center, Retired
Sandra Blakeslee, Science Writer
Benjamin Radford, Deputy Editor of the Skeptical Inquirer Magazine
David Thomas, Physicist and Mathematician
Stuart D. Jordan, NASA Astrophysicist, Emeritus
David H. Gorski, Cancer Surgeon, Wayne State University School of Medicine
Anthony R. Pratkanis, Professor of Psychology, UC @Santa Cruz
Jan Willem Nienhuys, Mathematician, Waalre, The Netherlands
Susan Blackmore, Psychologist,  Visiting Professor at the University of Plymouth
Ken Feder, Anthropology,  Central Connecticut State University
Jill Tarter, Bernard M. Oliver Chair, SETI Institute
Richard Saunders, JREF Million Dollar Challenge Committee,  Producer – The Skeptic Zone Podcast
Jay Pasachoff, Field Memorial Professor of Astronomy, Williams College
Lawrence M. Krauss, Director, The ASU Origins Project, Arizona State University
Barbara Forrest, Philosophy, Southeastern Louisiana University
Kimball Atwood, Physician, Newton, MA
James Alcock, Psychologist, Glendon College, York University, Toronto, Canada
Massimo Polidoro, Science writer, author, Executive Director CICAP, Italy
E.C. Krupp, Director, Griffith Observatory


Reply to  Arno Arrak
December 7, 2014 9:38 pm

warrenlb wrote @ December 6, 2014 at 9:45 am

Yes, all the World’s Science Academies, ALL Scientific Professional Societies, all major universities, NASA and NOAA — who conclude ‘Earth is Warming, Man is The Cause, and the net effects are likely to be strongly negative — should be purged of scientists just as the Nazis did in WWII.
Then we would be left with the anti-science amateurs who can, I’m sure, employ their mysticism or witchcraft to develop all the new technologies needed by the world.
What a great idea.

My question is: “Are they all illiterate?” After 30 years, any decent science makes it into tertiary level texts. You might expect to find your CAGW in a standard such as TR Oke’s Boundary Layer Climates, but that hasn’t been updated since 1987!
The Changing Earth: Exploring Geology and Evolution by James S. Monroe contains but one passing reference in the prefatory material to some believing that carbon dioxide is affecting the climate.
I know I’m being silly, you don’t appear to answer questions, but could you tell me of a tertiary level climatology text, introductory, or advanced, that deals with the topic of CAGW? Until such is provided to me, I will continue to hew to The Received View; i.e. what is taught at tertiary level.

Reply to  David S
December 6, 2014 8:57 am

I don’t know why every country doesn’t just say that they will peak in fossil fuel usage in 2030, like China, and thereafter they might do something about it. Obama is cool with that so why not?

Reply to  Keitho
December 6, 2014 2:32 pm

Sensible approach. Unfortunately you are forgetting the 100B$/a that the men in suits are trailing as bait.

Arno Arrak
Reply to  David S
December 6, 2014 10:31 am

Oh, one more thing. Should my advice on dismantling all the regulations passed under false premises be followed I claim a modest one percent of their cost as my reward for saving the world from these huge expenses.

Reply to  David S
December 7, 2014 3:29 am

aunty abc to run some fact not fiction on climate?
David, you have a career in comedy awaiting you:-)
the recent labor wins in vic n sth aus are a serious worry

Reply to  David S
December 7, 2014 5:22 pm

Yes, we should follow the Chinese and allow emissions to rise along with the standard of living and wealth. Interglacials are warmer, but don’t sell your overcoat.

December 6, 2014 7:23 am

Viv Forbes
Sincere thanks for that. I have often made a similar point about here in the UK.
As you say, we in the UK lost most of our military at Dunkirk. Our navy was good but magnetic mines, U-boats and – as you also say – air attacks were better. Our relatively small air force was magnificent as we stood alone against H1tler while working to get the industrial might of the US and the military might of the USSR to join us in the struggle for the survival of Europe.
We survived because we had a faith in science and technology so we engaged in electronic warfare, espionage, and advanced technologies that multiplied the effectiveness of our intelligence services, our propaganda, and our air defences. And it worked.
The day may again come when our nation’s survival depends on a trust in science and technology. But that trust is being destroyed by the warmunists who are proclaiming a need for poverty, starvation and deprivation to avoid a climate problem which has no supporting evidence but they proclaim. The day will come when public learns of what the warmunists have done in the name of science. And when people learn that then they may lose all trust in science.

Reply to  richardscourtney
December 6, 2014 8:28 am

Viv Forbes,
You make good points and the timing of the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor reflects on the need to maintain a countries basic industries, military, and skilled workforce as being paramount to its national security.
Richard Courtney,
I agree with you. But I am concerned that the next play, which seems to be beginning now, will be to limit the exposure of the great scam on the basis that if it is totally exposed to the public it will discredit science in general, academia in particular, and governments especially. Note that I left out MSM as it has already been discredited. If they want to put the blame on academic deception, that would be well within their right to do so.
I believe that the only hope for science, academic institutions, as well as government, and the mainstream media is a full and honest exposure of what has been fabricated by the so called “environmentalist” movement. The failures, deceit, and plundering by previously well respected academic institutions is appalling. A gentle “sweeping under the rug” is not going to bring respect back to these once leading monuments of the free world. I don’t believe the mainstream media will ever recover. Only a complete and open reversal will offer any chance of that but I will not hold by breath.
The past 25 to 30 years has taken a serious toll on western freedom and international security. Only truth and transparency can offer any hope of a long term recovery.

Reply to  eyesonu
December 6, 2014 9:33 am

Very many thanks for that. I completely concur.
At present there seems to be another of the occasional troll infestations that attempt to disrupt WUWT. I have tried to correct some of the misrepresentations by trolls although the inevitable responses from trolls are – for reasons you need not know – a personal risk for me.
Hence, the fact that you and tonyb have each taken the trouble to say you agree with my post in this thread is a genuine pleasure for me and has provided support I needed. I am truly grateful to both of you.

Reply to  eyesonu
December 6, 2014 10:25 am

Richard Courtney,
As always, I agree with your comments. You are certainly right about the recent troll infestation. But don’t be concerned, there are only a small handful of them. They are being forced into their climbdown, after being refuted on every point they try to argue.
When one side constantly deflects, misdirects, moves the goal posts, changes the subject, and refuses to answer science-based questions, they are fighting a rearguard action. They lost the debate, and everyone knows it, even them. But their sensitive egos just won’t let them admit that Planet Earth is right, and they are wrong.

Reply to  eyesonu
December 6, 2014 3:55 pm

Doesn’t the US have the “most transparent government in history” now? ;-0

Reply to  eyesonu
December 7, 2014 12:19 am

I have arrived at exactly the same point as you, eyesonu, but let’s see how they get out of this hideous mess they have created. I expect a “giant squirrel” moment is about to reveal itself.

Reply to  richardscourtney
December 6, 2014 8:38 am

I think what concerns me in the UK is that we have a power grid that in winter operates very close to maximum and in to the mix we are throwing renewables that can not provide a reliably calculated base load.
Today is gloriously sunny but with no wind so we will get some solar power. Yesterday was dull gloomy and windless so no input from renewables. What energy such renewables do provide is very expensive.
Throw into the mix the need for reliable and secure fuel supplies from sources that are not going to turn off the tap and the UK is not in a good place.
We are surrounded by ocean and that could provide the renewable predictable power we need. I also see no alternatives to half a dozen new nuclear power plants as realistically no more coal powered ones will be built here, although Germany seems to have managed this trick
I have bought a generator I hope I don’t need to use it.

Reply to  tonyb
December 6, 2014 9:13 am

Thankyou for your response to my comment which amplified a mention of the UK WW2 situation mentioned in the article by Viv Forbes, and then said why I think this matters to the present situation.
Your response is about the present situation in the UK and I fear we may be straying too far from the topic of the thread. However, I write to support your views and to clarify my own.
I strongly agree with you when you say

We are surrounded by ocean and that could provide the renewable predictable power we need. I also see no alternatives to half a dozen new nuclear power plants as realistically no more coal powered ones will be built here, although Germany seems to have managed this trick

As to your ocean point, I refer to this which I am sure you have read but may be of interest to others. It demonstrates that I am opposed to stupidity (hence, against wind powered and solar powered subsidy farms) but in favour of sensible renewables that provide despatchable power of use to the electricity grid.
And, yes, we need reliable and indigenous fuel supply so we need to start fracking for shale gas as a matter of urgency.
I, too, hope you don’t need to use your generator but when the available gas reserves are acknowledged then this winter may be touch-and-go for that. And the Greens alone are responsible for that.

Reply to  tonyb
December 6, 2014 9:24 am

For the sake of accuracy, wind is currently providing about 10% of UK power.

Anything is possible
Reply to  tonyb
December 6, 2014 9:29 am

tonyb December 6, 2014 at 8:38 am
“Today is gloriously sunny but with no wind so we will get some solar power.”
Except that Jersey, the most southerly point in the British Isles, got just 8 hrs and 22 mins of daylight, and even at noon, the Sun was just 18 degrees above the horizon.
In mid-winter, solar power in the UK is pretty much useless, even on the rare days that are “gloriously sunny”

Reply to  tonyb
December 6, 2014 10:53 am

Anything isossible
Yes agreed, that is why I used the phrase ‘Some’ solar power. When the solar farm developers make their case to the councils they fail to mention how the power their arrays provide will fall off exponentially from September. Anyone who has solar lights knows they become useless here from mid October. Solar is no substitute for calculable base load from grown up power stations

Reply to  tonyb
December 6, 2014 11:05 am

You are being selective. Those figures are provided by the renewables trade body. Here are the national grid figures which use the same source.
You will note they comment on its extreme variability. You can take the data and grh things.
How often was 10 percent of our power supplied, when needed?
How much dd it cost?
What would you do in the very frequent situations we have here when the sun isn’t shning and the wind isn’t blowing?
I am not against renewables per se but their day will not come until someone invents appropriate storage technology and the price comes down. . Having said that they are a blot on our landscapes
You don’t save the environment by trashing the countryside.

Brian H
Reply to  tonyb
December 6, 2014 11:12 am

The advancement of energy technology has been from ‘catch as you can’ renewables to compact, intense, dependable sources. The effort to roll this backwards is perverse. NO renewables are viable sources for non-stop industrial society.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  tonyb
December 6, 2014 12:16 pm

MikeB says that wind is providing 10℅ of UK’s power at the moment. Great! But what he neglects to say is, just what is that as a proportion of installed wind? I mean, how would it look to brag that your local FF power station was usually running at 20℅ ? Taxpayers would be demanding a refund. No, MikeB?

Reply to  richardscourtney
December 7, 2014 9:56 pm

Richard, what has been done has been in the name of science, but it wasn’t science. That must be the message for the future in order to restore trust.

Reply to  The Pompous Git
December 8, 2014 12:50 am

The Pompous Git
You say

Richard, what has been done has been in the name of science, but it wasn’t science. That must be the message for the future in order to restore trust.

Yes, I strongly agree, but many people fail to distinguish the difference you state.
For example, and NOT to start running an off-topic hare, many cite e.g. the long-ago Crusades and e.g. the present-day atrocities of ISIS as being “religion”, and they fail (refuse?) to understand those horrors were conducted in the name of religion.
To cite a statement often quoted at this time of year

The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

but nobody claims the light has overcome the darkness, either.

Reply to  richardscourtney
December 8, 2014 1:06 pm

Too late.
I have had a life long love of Science. I now divide it into “The Scientific Method” that still gets that love and admiration, and “the science industry” that has proven itself immoral, untrustworthy, and a money whore. I can not now trust in the word of any self proclaimed “scientist” without personally investigating their claim or seeing the work of others who attack it.
In short, they have moved from “top of my trust ladder” to “about the same as the politicians who set their agenda; or just a bit below used car salesmen”.

December 6, 2014 7:26 am

Was going to say – sounds like the good old USA…

Alan Robertson
December 6, 2014 8:01 am

Viewers might notice the photo of Che Guevera on the Phoenix, AZ classroom wall (Source: L.Alphonse, Managing Editor, US News & World Report) in the linked story about Obama’s Climate Change propaganda campaign.
Green agenda, or Red agenda?

Reply to  Alan Robertson
December 6, 2014 8:05 am

There’s more good information on the White House and World Bank initiatives at: http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/

Reply to  Alan Robertson
December 6, 2014 8:54 am

You have to fight to eliminate Common Core in our schools to get rid of Obama’s Climate Change propaganda campaign.

Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
December 6, 2014 9:47 am

What about Evolution, Relativity, DNA, and Plate Tectonics proposed by the same batch of corrupt Scientists?

David A
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
December 6, 2014 10:35 am

Really? Links please.

Brian H
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
December 6, 2014 11:16 am

Not “the same group” of corrupt scientists. Those were independent researchers and thinkers not beholden to leftist activists who have concentrated on getting a stranglehold on funding sources.

Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
December 6, 2014 8:25 pm

Regarding plate tectonics. That theory was posed by an amateur geologist who was ridiculed for it in life. He died before his theory was proven. Don’t let truth get in the way of your factless rant!

Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
December 6, 2014 8:34 pm

Why do you keep citing the same examples, when repeatedly you’ve been shown how they not only don’t support your point, but in fact make the skeptics’ case for us.
Evolution, Relativity, and Plate Tectonics were not proposed by “the same batch of corrupt Scientists” but by individuals or small groups working outside of mainstream, big science as it existed in their day. Which of course was much less than today’s academic-government-Green industrial complex controls “science”.
DNA was borderline, but still a small group working on a shoestring. The antithesis of pay to play “climate science” of today, in which Mann’s first question about his HS challengers was to ask about their “financing”, which of course was themselves.
CACA is totally corrupt & its corrosive influence is causing the rest of science to rot as well.

Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
December 6, 2014 10:38 pm

Warren “What about pointed sticks? (Monty Python)” lb.
Sorry Mods, could not resist.

Mike Maguire
December 6, 2014 8:03 am

If one were able to step back and view our planets response to increasing CO2 objectively and make assumptions based only on observations the past 3 decades. The most obvious change would be seen as a greening of the planet.
Hundreds of studies confirm what is irrefutable plant science and biology from the well understood law of photosynthesis.
What’s insanely absurd is that the “green” party is against what clearly is a beneficial gas which life on this planet is responding to positively.
The reason is that a political position has been established and defined for the green side to identify with based on humans emitting CO2 by burning fossil fuels. This type of CO2 has been defined as pollution and bad. No matter the booming biosphere and vegetative health of the planet or bin busting crop yields and world food production……….CO2 is pollution because it comes from humans burning fossil fuels.
It’s pollution, because it’s a greenhouse gas that warms the atmosphere and humans have defined that the perfect temperature of the planet was exactly the temperature before they started increasing the CO2…………no matter that life actually has benefited from modest warming.
The entire argument then, is based on this eventually leading to catastrophic warming and a tipping point at which all this beneficial CO2 and beneficial warming suddenly explodes in the other direction and all hell breaks loose with extreme droughts, heat waves, melting ice, rising oceans and dying creatures accelerating based on a theory from mathematical equations fed into global climate models.
The absurd part of this is that 2 sides have been clearly defined.
One side, the greens are actually against what is greening the planet because of the effect of CO2 down the road, based on a theory of temperatures relative to what some humans view as the perfect temperature is defined.
This side points to every drought or heat wave as evidence of the extreme weather from greenhouse gas warming(even while the warming has stalled).
The other side points to every snowstorm or record cold wave as evidence that greenhouse gas warming is not as powerful as projected.
Funniest thing recently, is that the greens, in order to disarm the other sides use of using increasing snow and extreme cold waves, has incorporated increasing snow and extreme cold as being part of their all encompassing weather extremes from global warming.
It really is ironic though. The greens are emphatically against the very thing that is greening out planet.

Reply to  Mike Maguire
December 6, 2014 9:31 am

Humans have defined that the perfect temperature of the planet was exactly the temperature before they started increasing the CO2

Yes, ironically that was at the start of the industrial era, a period called the ‘little ice age’, when we had frost fairs on the Thames. I’m sure that no one really wants to go back to that, they just don’t realise what they are saying.

Brian H
Reply to  Mike Maguire
December 6, 2014 11:19 am

All those disaster scenarios are actually consequences of Cooling, not Warming. The entire AGW theory is bass-ackwards.

Patrick bols
December 6, 2014 8:10 am

Anyone not with their heads in the sand must have noticed by now that earth is not warming and that the expensive models build by pseudo scientists are all wrong. A sacred principle in science is that any hypothesis should be open to be proven wrong. IPCC folks have been proven absolutely wrong.
It is therefore unfortunate that serious debate and research on our climate has become impossible. The bunch of pseudo scientists operating the IPCC have destroyed the raw data on which their manipulated conclusions are based.
The only solution is to start real scientific research from scratch. Set up protocols that reasonable people can agree upon and then execute those protocols in an open society atmosphere (Karl Popper)
Meanwhile, it does not make sense to take any action because we may be barking up the wrong tree and take actions that will truly harm the planet and humanity.

Reply to  Patrick bols
December 6, 2014 8:30 am

Anyone not with their heads in the sand must have noticed by now that earth is not warming
That’s not really true at all. The media is still pumping out the warming scare stories. Every day I see a dozen stories on warmest ever, greatest ice loss, longest drought, worst storm, etc. As long as the voice of authority says it’s warming, it IS warming.
I often have this debate with my younger co-workers. They are very smart engineers, but absolutely refuse to believe that governments would shift the truth. They’re still scratching they’re collective heads over the latest jump in heath insurance premiums. A few years ago they confidently assured me an increase would never happen, and that rates would actually DROP because of ACA. BTW, not one of them heard about the Gruber videos.

Reply to  Paul
December 7, 2014 2:26 pm

December 6, 2014 at 8:30 am
“As long as the voice of authority says it’s warming, it IS warming.”
That is the point – anyone who still hasn’t noticed that Western media is run by imbecile propagandists is braindead.

December 6, 2014 8:16 am

Whether or not one agrees with the green policies being promoted in Australia , UK and US ,a puzzling feature of these projects is that they are being being promoted most by left wing politicians who know that their own natural constituents, workers in the manufacturing industries or the lower echelons of the public services will be the most heavily affected.
In the US the situation has a further twist . From the BBC and numerous media articles Detroit is exhibited as the classic example of a de – industrialised city , with resultant dereliction, despair and crime. The impression given , also , is that the now departed auto factories had a high percentage of workers from Black and recent immigrant families. If Obama plans to Detroitise (ugly name suits ugly purpose) other cities in US is it not likely that it will be members of his own community that will suffer the most . He is often photographed lunching and playing golf with leaders of the African American communities – do they not take the opportunity to point out the perils for their people of what Obama is doing?
Another oddity is the absence of any calls for restraint from union leaders many of whose members will be affected if industries close , and if the loss of GDP means that public services are closed down for lack of revenue by local or central Govt. Did Reagan so totally destroy the unions in the US that they no longer have a say in the nation’s affairs?

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  mikewaite
December 6, 2014 8:41 am

Two words: Cognitive Dissonance.

Brian H
Reply to  mikewaite
December 6, 2014 11:23 am

Union leaders long ago became wannabe-monopolists, selling their members’ labour to the highest bidders — who then gradually went bankrupt.

December 6, 2014 8:30 am

lot of manufacturers looking to us aluminum to save weight yet that takes a buttload of energy to make.
cheap reliable energy is needed.

Reply to  dmacleo
December 6, 2014 8:30 am

should say looking to USE

Peter Miller
December 6, 2014 8:58 am

If it can’t be grown, it’s got to be mined.
Just another example of a humongous flaw in typical greenie thinking.

December 6, 2014 8:59 am

Well Viv, there will be no need for any national defense by any nation once the One World Dictatorship is up and running. Of course, freedom-loving individuals might have a strong need for self-defense against the One World Dictatorship, but that’s another topic.
It seems there are some Westerners in power right now working for a World Government, so of course they would actually believe cutting military budgets in the here and now makes perfect sense. Moving manufacturing to China and India also makes sense to these… fools… because they think they will be running the One World Dictatorship and deciding which country will specialize in particular activities. However, China might have plans contrary to the those of the One World Dictatorship fellows. Oh, and the Middle East seems comfortable with a One World Dictatorship, so long as it is Islamic and runs under Sharia law.

December 6, 2014 9:01 am

When I grew up in Oz in the ’40s, it was called the Kokoda Trail, not Track, but of course that may have changed since. Apart from that, agree with everything.

Reply to  Canehan
December 6, 2014 2:32 pm

Canehan………..my father fought in New Guinea with the 7th Div. AIF…….It was known in our household as the Kokoda track.
“”Kokoda Trail” or “Kokoda Track” ?
There has been a considerable debate about whether the difficult path that crossed the Owen Stanley Range should be called the “Kokoda Trail” or the “Kokoda Track”. Both “Trail” and “Track” have been in common use since the war. “Trail” is probably of American origin but has been used in many Australian history books and was adopted by the Australian Army as an official “Battle Honour”. “Track” is from the language of the Australian bush. It is commonly used by veterans, and is used in the volumes of Australia’s official history. Both terms are correct, but “Trail” appears to be used more widely.”

Reply to  redress
December 6, 2014 4:41 pm

Lets not restart the Trekker Trekkie wars again. By the way, anyone know which side won?

Stephen Richards
December 6, 2014 9:02 am

I can’t understand the eastern europeans falling into the same trap again. The communist trap. This time around it is watermelons so they are a little disguised but still evident.
But, not only are the eastern europeans falling for it but the whole of our legacy polis. I see no alternative to voting UKIP, AfD and FN.

Reply to  Stephen Richards
December 6, 2014 9:50 am

Those pesky scientists –falling prey to evidence and physics. Not much chance of that happening here on WUWT.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  warrenlb
December 6, 2014 10:08 am

Ooh look, a – dang, it’s gone. Not much chance of a Warmunist Troll sticking around these days.

Reply to  warrenlb
December 6, 2014 10:29 am

Bruce Cobb,
Right as usual. wlb has been thrashed in debate, now he’s just a hit ‘n’ run troll.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  warrenlb
December 6, 2014 12:19 pm

Take away their funding, Warren, and see if they agree with you then.

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  warrenlb
December 6, 2014 12:26 pm

warrenlb a bit off subject if you would, how did your garden do this year with all that nice CO2? Mine did real good this year. You do garden or farm don’t you? You do understand that if your luddtie “scientists” have their way you are going to have to feed yourself? Don’t you?

Old England
Reply to  warrenlb
December 6, 2014 1:01 pm

Your comments show you to be either a gullible fool and a paid up member of the AGW religion or an active part of the AGW scam.
You should either get an education to help you understand science or see a trick cyclist who can help you understand the difference between honesty and lies, and if necessary what a moral compass is.

Reply to  warrenlb
December 6, 2014 2:20 pm

Just seeking information on troll locomotion.
Can they run – or do they scamper – or slither?
Auto, getting very concerned about the watermelon control of the media, much of politics, chunks of the unions [they have a part to play in protecting individual workers, but may have mislaid their scripts in the last forty years or more], and the luvvie culture in many parts (you love me as ‘Mr. President’ here’s what I think on – ah – watercolour painting, the North West Passage, the role of . . . . whatever. I played a president – so I am a major public figure. Trust me . . .[Goodness, I played Joseph – step-father of Jesus. Trust me. Indeed, if I could find the doll that, in 1959, played the baby Jesus, I’d say trust the one that played Jesus. Absurd, no? Auto]), not least Hollywood, but certainly not only . . . . .

Stephen Richards
Reply to  warrenlb
December 7, 2014 1:19 am

Yours was a really strange comment as a reply to mine but FYI I have a BSc (physics) MSc (Solid state Physics). So, physics?, pesky scientists? yes we are all here. This site includes engineers from marine to power stations, to computer, electricity transmissions systems etc.
If you want to come here for a discussion on your religion we might not be the best but for science, none better.

Gary Pearse
December 6, 2014 9:11 am

Yeah but what you have is the situation that you didn’t stop them at Kokoda Track this time. They are sitting in parliament.

December 6, 2014 9:16 am

Thanks, Viv. Wise words.
I hope people will listen and vote accordingly, while they still can.

December 6, 2014 9:32 am

Not to detract from your thesis, but the arrival of the USMC from 8,000 miles away should hardly go unremarked in any discussion of the immediate post-Pearl Harbor period. Yes I know Britain and its empire had been at war for years, you make the point how that drained Oz manpower and resources yourself. And yes I know those Marines didn’t go to work in the mines, but they freed up a lot of miners to do so. A bit tangential to be sure, but a remarkable episode often unremarked even in the USA.

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  rayvandune
December 6, 2014 1:01 pm

rayvandune No the 1st mar div. hit Gaudlcanal early august 1942. It was the 32 inf div.USA that fought acoss the Owen-Stanley mountains in nov of 1942. They were proceded by dribs and drabs from various USA & USA air corps units One of tha first aircorp units came straight from the US and reached Port Moresby by late feb 1942 My Dad was one of them. The Glory is theirs, not the marines.
Respectfully michael

December 6, 2014 9:43 am

“Prakash Javadekar, Indian Union Minister for Environment and Forests, speaks to media at a press conference in New Delhi on Dec 5, 2014. India will not sign any deal to cut greenhouse gas emissions at UN climate talks that threatens its growth or undermines its fight against poverty, the environment minister said Dec 5. — PHOTO: AFP – See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/south-asia/story/india-says-wont-sacrifice-growth-climate-talks-20141205?fb_action_ids=10152618751263742&fb_action_types=og.comments#sthash.PUWvUNir.dpuf
To which I commented:
Very sensible:
That AGW fraud has one beneficial side effect: “Global warming did serve a couple of useful purposes. The issue has been a litmus test for our political class. Any politician who has stated a belief in global warming is either a cynical opportunist or an easily deluded fool. In neither case should that politician ever be taken seriously again. No excuses can be accepted.”
To wit: http://tinyurl.com/ptgrz34 & http://tinyurl.com/ot2hlp4 & http://tinyurl.com/q4rtmvf

December 6, 2014 9:57 am

At least Australia now has a prime minister who once rightly called CACA “crap”, but now seems to be singing a different tune. The global scam won’t have a hope of being ended until the US gets a new, skeptical president to go with its more skeptical but still insufficiently so congress.

Reply to  milodonharlani
December 6, 2014 10:27 am

But even in the GOP, there are True Believers, or those who conveniently claim to be:

Reply to  milodonharlani
December 6, 2014 8:19 pm

He’s a politician, and losing the popularity contest. He needs more support from other areas because he’s losing support from his usual bases, so there is an appeal to the “green-left” in the public. Australia is now in a very dangerous position with regards to climate change support (Abbott has been strong, but he has opponents in both houses and supporters of some “action” on climate change not to mention a strong left-leaning public and media). I suspect that after the cabinet shuffle that will happen early in 2015, there will be a leadership challenge from Turnbull. If Turnbull wins, and that is likely is he does, climate change and some sort of carbon tax will be back on the agenda and Australia will be fast-tracked down the path of economic destruction!

Reply to  Patrick
December 6, 2014 8:23 pm

Sad, but probably true.
The Left is counterattacking viciously.

December 6, 2014 10:21 am

Viv Forbes – Thanks for writing that good article.
re Kokoda: You might also have pointed out that the conscripts (“chocolate soldiers” because they weren’t real soldiers) forced the Japanese into their first defeat on land (Milne Bay) and then dished out the second (Kokoda). Before sanity prevailed, they then faced the prospect of courtmartial by the remote top brass at home (because they retreated before they clawed theri way back). Those guys had a tough time!
re Lock the Gate : I think your criticism is somewhat unjustified. The problem arises primarily because of Australia’s legal system. Boiled down to its essentials, a mining company has the right to destroy private property without compensation. It is easy to envisage that with a different legal system the CSG companies would be welcomed in many places where they are now fiercely resisted.

December 6, 2014 10:36 am

Some optimism is in order for Australia, when you consider that it went from nothing to a great country in a mere 150 years. A big backlash against Green Dogma is coming, which in Europe will be triggered by major power outages.
Another reason for optimism is that Greenery exists largely within a bubble that most people are unaware of. Yes they control most of the media, but who pays any attention to that?

Reply to  MikeUK
December 6, 2014 6:53 pm

Where are all the trolls today, here is a job vacancy that would suit any of the ecofascists out there: http://pindanpost.com/2014/12/07/a-frack-free-job-vacancy/
Thanks, Viv for keeping up the truth telling.

Reply to  MikeUK
December 7, 2014 12:10 am

MikeUk, “Australia” was in no way nothing before European colonisation. There was a strong people and culture that existed for 40,000 years or more before Europeans arrived.

Stephen Richards
Reply to  MikeUK
December 7, 2014 1:22 am

Yes they control most of the media, but who pays any attention to that?
97% of the population. You must remember that the vast majority of people are virtually illiterate and easily lead.

December 6, 2014 10:47 am

I should not follow these posts on politics….leads me to despair and shows so clearly why the sceptics get so readily dismissed on a political level. There shows virtual zero understanding of modern globalised economies. And though there is some perception of the depth of deceptions, it never goes very deep.
Lets look at it: not only the UN (with WMO, WHO, IMO and all), but ALL the science academies, and certainly a majority of climate scientists chosen to advise government, believe that GHGs will be a problem. In the UK we have a conservative government that goes along with this, even it has some sceptical voices, in a coalition with Liberals, who with one voice accept it, and a Labour opposition that also accepts it. There are no communists in the UK parliament – but I doubt they would differ much.
Are these governments affected by ‘green’ lobbying? We have one Green Party MP. No other policies of the Greens influence government here – so why climate change? Of course, what the Green Party thinks or believes about climate change is not relevant to government. What is relevant is what government scientific advisors think – which they are bound by statute to listen to. And every single one speaks with the same voice.
Likewise the NGOs….not just the environmental NGOs (where even the societies for bird protection, butterflies, woodlands and wilderness) have joined the Climate Coalition, but also Oxfam, Save the Children, CAFOD and all the development groups. Who advises them? The scientists, of course. It was the scientists who invented the threat of global warming – with the head of NASA to the fore.
So – you cannot blame ‘greens’ for accepting the word of all the worlds’ science institutions and disregarding a bunch of bloggers who can’t take the time to publish (with honourable exceptions – Spencer, Lindzen, McKittrick etc) and whose arguments most scientifically illiterate people cannot follow. Some of the best left-liberal journalistic minds in my country simply dismiss sceptics as ‘deniers’.
What I DO blame the current ‘greens’ for – as well as the left-liberal journalists, is an acute lack of critical faculty – and because I know that faculty once existed, it is actually a form of ‘wilful blindness’. None of them want to look over the past history of environmental science and prediction – a history of major failures and big consequences. And none of them want to look at the nature of the climate policy gravy-train and who jumped on board – because of course, they all boarded it right at the start, before there were such public doubts.
It suits ANYONE who believes the science (such as the Millennium Ecosystem Assessment) that tells the world’s government that resources are finite, the era of cheap energy is over, and our current trajectory of economic growth and industrialisation of the rest of the planet is not sustainable. Sceptics display the SAME level of wilful blindness toward these issues as the ‘greens’ do to data, observations, the blogosphere, the environmental impact and cost of renewables, and the implications of channeling hundreds of billions of climate-aid dollars through the World Bank.
The ONLY reference I have seen here on WUWT to scientific error and institutional corruption of science, is Eric Worrall’s look at String Theory. Far MORE relevant is the way that ALL the world’s science institutions once supported a theory of radiation damage that sanctioned X-raying pregnant women – and the story of how one single woman scientist overturned that theory. Science buried that story and society buried that woman with not a single honour to her name.
Or – the time when every environmental scientist supported predictive models of toxic substances being dispersed in the ocean (a philosophy of dilute-and-disperse). Only a handful of working scientists dissented and they would have gotten nowhere without the political work of Greenpeace International at the UN (where I was their chief advocate for ten years – as an independent consultant, not a paid employee). In that work I gained insight into the workings of scientific committees and UN secretariats. We won our cases – stopping toxics going directly into the oceans and fostering clean-production-strategies. Please – sceptical community – take a look at the nature of immuno-suppresent PCBs, carcinogenic Toxaphenes and PAHs, radioactive waste, gender-benders, fire retardants….it has NOT been your preferred right-wing governments that spearheaded the reforms, rather the ‘socialists’ of Germany, Denmark and Sweden. Or maybe you just don’t care about real pollution?
I wrote up all the deficiencies of the UN system of that time (1980-1993) in an invited paper for ‘Marine Pollution Bulletin’ (the editor was a marine zoologist who knew my work). Reprints were ordered from my small research group by nearly 100 marine labs around the world. However, Google Scholar revealed when I last looked – 2 citations! That is how science protects itself. My paper dealt with all the issues of how a false consensus is constructed and defended and why (the huge spin-off from ‘dilute and disperse’ theory in monitoring labs, computer models, toxicology testing and lucrative UN consultancy work). Plus, of course, reputations to defend and asses to cover.
I wrote about all this in ‘Chill: a reassessment of global warming theory’ – which the sceptical blogosphere along with the left-liberal press consistently ignored and failed to review. Why? Because half of it demonstrates the value of past ‘green’ activism, even it lays bare the hypocrisy and vested interest of modern greens.
In actuality – science (and I was once a scientist) is in the process of correcting the models. The truth will out. And yes, as the global warming ship sinks, the greens and environmentalists may well go down with it, even science itself may not recover. But if that is the case, then the political world will be the poorer.
Meanwhile, instead of posts on String Theory, how about someone out there looking at capital flows – who owns what, where? Before making comments about Australian industry. All the well-off Americans and Europeans who love their right-wing governments rely upon those governments to keep their financial returns positive. Large numbers of people simply hand over their money to the banks. Who hand a large portion over to global industrialists and finance houses with the sole criteria of increasing the return. Thus, large capital flows to China, India, Brazil, Russia etc where there IS a return to be made. There ARE such things as ethical and sustainable investment funds ….they constitute less than 1% of capital flows. That does not seem to bother the right-wing sceptical community one bit.
That goods are no longer manufactured in Australia is because no Australians could afford to buy them. It is the same in Europe. Walk around any capital city – the centres are full of elite designer shops for clothes, shoes, watches, furniture and fittings, artwork and for some reason I can’t figure, handbags for women, all at prices that only the elites can afford. They are made from real cloth, not plastic, by artisans in Europe. Then you have banks, estate agents, insurance offices and escape merchants (travel agents). Then you have the tenement blocks of the people that service this elite economy. And they are themselves surrounded by Malls and giant Supermarkets. Virtually no food is sourced locally. Normal food shops have disappeared – other than a few farmer’s markets and niche organic suppliers. In the giant all-purpose supermarkets, virtually all clothes, furniture, fittings – whatever the label, are made in China. And that is where the urban poor can afford to shop, because the rest of their money goes on rent, fuel and temporary escape from the cell-block.
Whilst European and American governments print money to bail out their economies (they give it to banks who send it to China!) and are effectively bankrupt, China runs a $2 trillion dollar cash reserve. That is why Obama looks so small. Bringing back George Bush, junior or senior, or the ghost of Ronald Reagan will not alter that equation! But we have to remember – it is not ‘China’s’ money…..it belongs to the global banking system.
Now here is how offsets work for the banks. To limit CO2 emissions in western industries costs $50-100 per tonne.So industry buys an offset – say, from a Philipine pig-farmer who wants to build a biogas plant. That costs $2 per tonne of CO2 saved. But you can’t buy direct – you need an agent. He buys for $2 and sells to the banks for $10, who sells to industry for $15. Industry saves $35-85 per tonne. But now you see why the banks support the coalition’s fight against carbon dioxide. And the modern ‘greens’ – many of them are bureaucrats who advise the banks or act as agents or aspire to do so. If they leave the city, they do go to exotic wildlife locations, usually by plane, and stay in a safari lodge.
Of course – it is a form of taxation, and the smartest can easily avoid it. But not the urban poor whose food and fuel bills continue to rise, while their wages fall. Meanwhile, after nearly crashing the global economy and bringing ‘austerity’ and destitution to the West, they continue to invest in the East and make huge profits. Science and the bankers have always been the best of friends – they both have their roots in the Masonic Lodges of London in 1650. They lunch together. Of course, this is NOT conspiracy. It is simply collusion – or as we would say in urban north of England – knowing which side your bread is buttered.

Reply to  Peter Taylor
December 6, 2014 12:32 pm

Peter Taylor
You make some good points but your argument is plain wrong because it is based on two blatant errors.
Firstly, you say

Lets look at it: not only the UN (with WMO, WHO, IMO and all), but ALL the science academies, and certainly a majority of climate scientists chosen to advise government, believe that GHGs will be a problem.

The Russian Science Academy has not agreed that “GHGs will be a problem” so “all” is a (slight?) exaggeration. And while the executives of other science academies have made such statements none of them has checked to determine if their Fellows and Members agree that “GHGs will be a problem”.
It seems you are unaware that the executives of the science academies have been deliberately usurped by Greens. I suggest you read Lindzen’s interesting and shocking analysis of the usurpation which names names and can be read here. If you are right that the opinions of science institutions influence government then the usurpation of the executives of those institutions refutes your claim that the Greens don’t influence government. And the government chooses and appoints the advisors it wants.
Secondly, you wrongly assert

Of course, what the Green Party thinks or believes about climate change is not relevant to government. What is relevant is what government scientific advisors think – which they are bound by statute to listen to. And every single one speaks with the same voice.

No! There is no compunction of any kind for a British government to “listen” to what its “scientific advisors think”.
The government requires its scientific advisors to be – as the saying goes – “on tap but not on top” so the government selects and appoints its scientific advisors to say what the government wants the public to be told. And the government replaces a scientific advisor who steps out of line by saying other than what the government wants said; e.g. see here.
You rightly say,

In the UK we have a conservative government that goes along with this, even it has some sceptical voices, in a coalition with Liberals, who with one voice accept it, and a Labour opposition that also accepts it. There are no communists in the UK parliament – but I doubt they would differ much.

When the entire spectrum of mainstream political parties agrees a single policy then perhaps you could consider the political desire which they all share. In this case, the desire is for taxation.
All governments need taxation for them to function as a provider of goods and services, but people don’t want to be taxed.
Governments desire taxes that people want to pay. We have one such tax in the UK and it is called the National Lottery. Second to a tax that people want to pay is a tax that people will not oppose, and what kind of person would oppose a tax to protect our children and grandchildren? One such tax is the Non-Fossil Fuel Obligation (NFFO) which is applied to all large generators of electricity and is justified by much of it being used to subsidise windfarms and solar farms. There would be no excuse of a NFFO without the subsidy farms.
There is no conspiracy in any of this (excepting, perhaps, by some Green activists). It is a bandwagon which your post suggests you fail to observe.

Reply to  Peter Taylor
December 6, 2014 1:14 pm

“The ONLY reference I have seen here on WUWT to scientific error and institutional corruption of science, is Eric Worrall’s look at String Theory.”
Not true,. I think that almost all the points you make in your post have been touched upon over the years here at WUWT. (pro and con).
And who is the 1 woman that is responsible for overturning the X-raying of pregnant women? You are right, I don’t think she has been discussed on WUWT – but I may be wrong on that..

Reply to  Peter Taylor
December 6, 2014 2:31 pm

“There are no communists in the UK parliament – but I doubt they would differ much.”
Brendan O’Neill of the “Spiked!” site is a communist (not that he advertises it much) and fiercely opposes the CACA Cult. There are many archived articles of interest there, but the search function isn’t very helpful.
“ALL the science academies”
The Australian Geological Society was unable to renew its alarmist position statement at the 5-year mark because of a deadlock among the membership on the issue.

Silver ralph
December 6, 2014 11:00 am

What I detest most, is the outright lies of politicians. In the UK they say we are making more cars than ever, to persuade us that all is well.
But it is not well at all. Our car plants are assembly halls. They ship in a semi-complete car, they bolt on its wheels and bumpers, and roll it out of the assembly line. You could run our car plants with a dozen people. There is no local casting, no local machining, no local component manufacture, no local electronics manufacture – it is all a sham to evade import duties.
Birmingham, which was once the tin-bashing and component workshop of the world, now specialises in daytime television, carpet slippers in the supermarket, rotten teeth, and cheap supermarket cider at 15p a pint. Walk around our market towns, and you will find half the shops are closed and derelict, because there is no money in the system.
If there is any money in the economy, it is not where it needs to be. We don’t need more Russian oligarchs pushing London house prices into the stratosphere. We don’t need more hypocritical Arabs, with their gambling, whiskey, whores, and gold-plated Rolls-Royces. And we certainly don’t need wads of money for ‘Green Jobs’, which end up purchasing windelecs (wind turbines) from Germany and China.
What we really need, is good old-fashioned businesses, that employ people, make things, and put money back into the local economy. But if the Greens manage to engineer a week-long electrical blackout, as seems likely, the whole place is going to go down the tubes.
Feel better now……….

Old England
Reply to  Silver ralph
December 6, 2014 1:04 pm

You forgot to mention that there are areas of Birmingham along with some other major cities where it is not exactly safe to be on the street unless you are of a particular (imported) religious persuasion.

Reply to  Silver ralph
December 6, 2014 7:52 pm

Honda in Swindon make their cars on site. It is not an assembly plant. Honda used to get body panels from Rover across the road (A416/8 I don’t recall anymore), but ~80% were rejected because Rover was rubbish. In 1994, Honda installed their own panel pressing plant.

Reply to  Silver ralph
December 7, 2014 2:31 pm

“We don’t need more Russian oligarchs pushing London house prices into the stratosphere. ”
You can stop worrying about that, as UK is as usual gung ho on any conflict the US wants. Ok you might keep Abramovic, he’s not particularly liked by Putin.

December 6, 2014 11:02 am

As soon as the minerals market takes a downturn, the Australian “economy” fizzles out.
The Labgreens have spent the treasury into massive debt aided and urged on by a manically destructive mass media – so be it.
Of course the whining, spoon-fed left will blame Tony Abbott for the loss of jobs and “conditions” It will have to happen that the inevitable occurs.
When I tell my English students in Thailand that an Australian “worker” assembling Ford and GM cars gets paid more than ten times what their fathers, brothers and uncles get (and live happily and well) they are aghast.
I live on less than a worker at Toyota and Honda, and i live well. with no designer clothes or $5 espresso.

December 6, 2014 11:18 am

the strong prey on the weak. if you are not strong, expect to become prey to those that are. given the choice, a mugger would rather steal from a little old lady than a large man in his prime.

Harry Passfield
December 6, 2014 11:51 am

Viv, in many blogs it’s become a common cliché to invoke Orwell’s 1984 as being a text book rather than a novel, but I like to think that, as far as Oz goes – especially seeing how Greens are taking sway – that soon you’ll be referencing Neville Shute. (On The Beach).

December 6, 2014 1:10 pm

The “greens” are making the US even more defenseless and by extension, Australia (and Japan and other countries). Our military is equipped with gear that is basically a relic of the cold war. The M1 tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles that make up our ground forces were built in the 1980’s and the factories that built them no longer exist. The factory that built our C-17 cargo planes no longer exists. The steel mills that made the steel no longer exist. The power plants and coal mines that powered these mills and factories no longer exist. If we were to get involved in any sort of confrontation that resulted in any significant loss of military equipment, we would not be able to replace it. It would take years to open the mines, build the mills, build the factories, build the power plants, and then, finally, build the equipment.
The damage that these people are doing to our manufacturing infrastructure (while at the same time acting to MOVE that infrastructure to China) has not received enough attention.

Reply to  crosspatch
December 6, 2014 1:17 pm

No surprise it’s under-reported, since the MSM’s denizens are glad to see American power decline.
Boeing C-17 plant in Long Beach will shut down next summer.
One reason why CA now votes so far Left is because its aerospace industry has been gutted, along with much other economic activity.

Reply to  milodonharlani
December 6, 2014 1:54 pm

How many windmills does it take to power one aluminum mill or one electric arc steel mill reliably? Answer: All of them still isn’t enough.

Reply to  milodonharlani
December 6, 2014 1:56 pm

The governor of Oregon wants to breach the dams that powered the aluminum mills that won WWII & the Cold War.

Reply to  milodonharlani
December 6, 2014 2:00 pm

And the McDonnell Douglass plant in Long Beach has already shut down. It is now Douglass Park.

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  crosspatch
December 6, 2014 2:51 pm

crosspatch hello. By trade I am a machinist. Done tool&die. Yes we have fewer factories but there capacities have increased. One machinist now operates two to three CNC machining centers. they can run 24/7/365. This is the true weak point-People! It takes time to train a machinist, a iron monger a shipwright.
It takes a mere eight years to train a climate scientist it takes twenty to get a crackerjack tradesman. And tto make matters worst, guess who is the only person who can train a trades-person?

Reply to  Mike the Morlock
December 6, 2014 4:09 pm

A very true and important point.
Once those and other technical skills are lost to our society, they are really gone forever.
It would then take a whloe team of outsiders and a couple of generations to restore them.
It is for this reason manufacturing industries MUST be maintained.
It may be marginally cheaper for the great and growing multinationals to manufacture offshore, but our government should ignore their pleas for evergrowing returns, and ignore their copious political donations, and legislate to retain these factories and these skills.

Reply to  Mike the Morlock
December 6, 2014 4:17 pm

“One machinist now operates two to three CNC machining centers. ”
Great. Where does the steel come from?

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
December 6, 2014 6:47 pm

crosspatch Some of the stock is imported, some is produced here in the US. Some at recycleing mills, some new. Note some of the exotic metals are only produced here. Also a weak link in the chain, carbide for cutting tools. Most of the ore is imported. South Africa I think is still the largest source. No Carbide no industry…surprise

December 6, 2014 1:31 pm

Green as in naive.

December 6, 2014 1:36 pm

And Australia has disarmed the populace. So when China and India get around to fighting over Australia, the Australians can just watch.

Reply to  Gamecock
December 6, 2014 1:57 pm

The totalitarian statists are trying to disarm Americans, too.
Soviet defector “Viktor Suvorov” claimed that China covets Australia. Your scenario is plausible.

Reply to  milodonharlani
December 6, 2014 2:14 pm

The Aussies have no nukes, either. Because they love peace . . . or something or other. No way to deter China. Totally dependent on Perfidious Albion and an American president who hates America. What could go wrong?

Reply to  Gamecock
December 6, 2014 3:18 pm

Of Australia’s 24 million people, about 17 live on the mainland east coast. South & West Australia & the Northern Territories, where the most resources lie, would be easy pickings. Australian armed forces number 80,561. They’re great men & women, from my own experience, but too few, too poorly supported.
China has 1.4 billion people & India 1.3 billion. Given the sea & air lift they presently lack, it would be nolo contendere.
But they’d probably island hop through Indonesia anyway. Maybe Vietnam would interfere with China’s Drang nach Süden.
Nah. They’d just get nuked.

Reply to  Gamecock
December 6, 2014 5:19 pm

Australia has disarmed the populace and rabbits and pigs are taking over the landscape. When the last of the soil is gone no-one else will want it anyway.

Reply to  Gamecock
December 6, 2014 7:39 pm

You say Australia has disarmed the populace, that was under Howard. And yet, gun crime and illegal gun imports have risen. I always thought the banning of gun ownership would be a bad thing for law abiding people. And it seems to be true!

Reply to  Gamecock
December 6, 2014 7:42 pm

By far the two largest sources of migrants to Australia are now India and China, in that order.

December 6, 2014 1:56 pm

Very insightful article!

December 6, 2014 2:02 pm

Great Post by Viv Forbes. The Decline of the West applies also to all of Western Europe and the United States. Without a return to sanity from the Green Blob, there will be great dangers ahead for us all.

December 6, 2014 2:24 pm


December 6, 2014 2:36 pm

Not to worry. We won’t be defenseless when China has enough invested here, and not so green either.

High Treason
December 6, 2014 2:41 pm

Although information is scarce on the net, the 1975 Lima Declaration gives the big clue as to why Australia has deliberately sabotaged manufacturing and agriculture. It was signed by Whitlam and ratified by Frazer.
Beware, your blood will boil when you see the ramifications of Lima. It is UN treachery at its worst, although what they have planned for the US in the next few weeks is equally treacherous and quite possibly the final nail in the coffin. Perhaps the conspiracy theorists have been right all along. Remember, those that tried to expose the Nazis were dismissed as conspiracy theorists but history showed they were right.
Talking about conspiracy theories, who else has noticed a flood of new conspiracy theories flooding the net which start out with pretty well proven UN treachery, but then go on with Holocaust denial, destroying any semblance of credibility.These look like an attempt to discredit conspiracy theories, especially the ones exposing the UN. As for Holocaust denial, my father told me his experiences during the war since I was a small child, over 10 years before Holocaust denial even reared its ugly head. Sure, my parents made up their stories, along with other Jews spontaneously, with the foresight that in 10 years time there would be groups (OK, David Irving in particular, along with Islamic groups) that would refute history, in spite of glaringly obvious evidence.
Knowledge is Power. Power is freedom. Check out Agenda 21 and Lima Declaration for yourself. Download Agenda 21 off the UN’s web site (they are actually proud of their green bible)- try to read the gobbldeygook. Read between the lines (mainly what is NOT being proposed) to verify the validity of exposes on the net. Knowledge is Power. Power is Freedom.

December 6, 2014 2:45 pm

Its actually a variation of the resources curse. Exporting minerals makes almost any other activity uneconomical, because it drives up the local prices in international terms, by pushing up the value of the Aussie dollar.
The only way to combat the resources curse is to use the mineral revenue to reduce other costs in the economy, for example by reducing taxes. Anyone who has ever visited the capital city of Australia, and seen the vast winding acreages of civil servant housing estates springing up like mushrooms for as far as the eye can see, knows we have diddly squat chance of reducing taxes.

Neil Jordan
December 6, 2014 2:53 pm

This unexpected objection to the USA EPA carbon rules might offer some hope.
[begin excerpts]
Crow leader says Obama administration power plant carbon emissions rules would cripple Montana tribe’s economy
The leader of the Crow Nation in Montana joined 17 state attorneys general Friday in challenging the Obama administration’s effort to reduce carbon emissions from power plants by 30%, saying it would cripple the tribe’s already fragile economy.
“Without any regard to humans’ lives, they are saying we have to shut down carbon emissions by this much,” Old Coyote said Friday. “The EPA is overstepping their bounds. They are taking it to another level where it will be devastating to us.”
In a letter sent to Gina McCarthy, the Environmental Protection Agency’s administrator, Old Coyote and Montana Atty. Gen. Tim Fox said the EPA “utterly failed” to consider the economic effects of the proposal to reduce carbon emissions 30% from 2005 levels by 2030.
The letter also said the EPA did not properly consult with the Crow Nation or offer alternatives to mitigate the proposal’s effects.
In a statement, EPA officials said they met with Crow leaders in July after the proposal was released and sent two letters notifying them of the proposal. Old Coyote said that the letters were boilerplate announcements and that the meeting did not seek the tribe’s input.
“They said, ‘Oh, hi, hello, we are the EPA and this is our regulation,'” Old Coyote said. “There was no conversation.”
Fox said that the Crow Nation could seek to scuttle the rule if its officials can prove the EPA did not properly consult with them.
“The lawmakers should be the ones working it out, not the agency saying, ‘This is what we are going to do whether you like it or not,'” Old Coyote said.
[end excerpt]

Reply to  Neil Jordan
December 6, 2014 3:00 pm

Funny. Just last night I was discussing the Crows’ reliance on carbon with friends at dinner.
Their clout in DC is however limited.

lyn roberts
December 6, 2014 3:09 pm

Why are we so reliant on China, MONEY MONEY & MONEY. I fear we are close to the possibility of a dictator in China, who will change their world outlook, cut us western devils off and we will be back in the 1800’s in a couple of weeks. Would we be able to cope NO, result riots to no gain in the long term except deaths as a result of. Then a possibility of an foreign invasion when we are down and vulnerable.. I wonder if this has occurred to any of the elite of our western governments. Too much focus on football, basketball, horseracing, and I will include global warming in that group, we are being distracted while Rome is burning.

December 6, 2014 3:28 pm

“By Sept 1942 the Japanese army had slashed their way down the Kokoda Track and could see the lights of Port Moresby.”
At this point, Viv leaves us hanging and doesn’t finish her story about the Japanese invasion of Australia. Sorry, but nothing I’ve read on WWII even mentions Australia. So I have to ask, what happened? Did the copper from Mount Isa save the day, or did the Japanese continue to advance until outside help arrived?

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  Louis
December 6, 2014 4:20 pm

American and Australian forces stopped the sea landings at “Milne Bay” American national guard toops (32div) and Australian “Desert Rats” threw them back across the Owen Stanley Mountains taking Buna
Also US Naval forces stopped earlier Japanese sea invasions in the battle of the Coral Sea. resulting in the loss of the USS Lexington and heavy damage to the USS Yorktown. Japan lost a light carrier and damage to two main line carriers. It was a long and bitter war.

Reply to  Louis
December 6, 2014 4:25 pm

“The British gave the patents for the RR Merlin engines to the US, where variants powered the
air armadas that beat the Luftwaffe and Japanese air force in the Pacific.”
Not the Japanese. The US Navy planes used Pratt & Whitney engines.

Reply to  Louis
December 6, 2014 4:29 pm

The Japanese withdrew because they needed the troops elsewhere. IMHO, they didn’t have sufficient troops or supplies to take Port Moresby anyway.
They say war is hell. The Kokoda Track Campaign must have been the inner circle of hell. At one point all the troops facing the Japanese were running a fever. In the mean time there were fat assed politicians as well as General MacArthur accusing the troops and their officers of being unwilling to fight. It makes my blood boil.

Reply to  commieBob
December 7, 2014 12:36 am

Blood boil – yes indeed. It was General Blamey who accused the troops and MacArthur would have taken advice from him. The troops mocked Blamey and refused to salute him afterwards. The bitter fighting slowed up the Japanese long enough to severely stress their supply line, and was a crucial factor in the eventual defeat of the Japanese. The whole campaign was bitter like maybe no other in WWII. All prisoners were executed by both sides, and some Australians were eaten. Blamey was clueless.

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  Louis
December 6, 2014 4:33 pm

Lewis in the first months of the war the japanese shoot everthing out of the air; P-40s, P39s, Brewster Buffalos, and Hurricanes. (one squadron in Singapore) And yes the Merlin made the P51. But it was the P38s, Wildcats, Hellcats and Corsair changed the tide.

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  Louis
December 6, 2014 5:10 pm

Gamecock,the point is that the Brits did not give the Australians the ablity to make Spitfires. Instead they were forced to use American P40s.Which they put to good use. A squadron of them operated out of Milne Bay during the seaborn invasion by Japanesee Marines. Oh and they also landed TANKS! The Aussies did not have tanks, nor at that time did we in that theater.
To steal from J. Stalin It takes a very brave man not to be a hero.

Reply to  Louis
December 8, 2014 2:07 am

True, that the battles and US successes on Guadalcanal affected the eventual outcomes on the Kokoda Track.
But more needs to be said about the magnificent fighting retreat of the Australian forces across the Owen Stanley ranges, because these poor b’s were truly hard done by the self serving senior command of the time – first and foremost being TBM (That B**tard MacArthur). (It was actually more a series of set piece battles as the Australian troops fell back to the next defensive positions. Note the following account says nothing about the severe terrain or the fact no prisoners were taken). Sorry it is long, but needs to be stated.
Japanese troops landed on landed on the north east coast of Papua on 21 July 1942. The first defensive battle (an earlier ambush had killed 15 Japanese troops) was by a force of 77 men of the Papuan Infantry Battalion and the Australian 39th Div who were defending Kokoda village and airfield and they were attacked on 29th July 1942 by a force of 500 to 1000 Japanese infantry and marines. The first frontal attacks came at 3 in the afternoon, by 5.00 PM Japanese troops had scouted to the rear of the defenders through the jungle, and at 2.00 AM their positions were overun. Several men including two senior officers were lost on the track and killed at the site, and the remaining defenders slipped away though the jungle to retreat to Deniki. (This was the start of fighting in the mountains). The Lewis and Bren guns of the defenders had resulted in severe Japanese casualties, and later captured documents showed the Japanese troops had reported that they had overrun a position of an estimated 1,200 defenders. However, Major Allan Cameron (at HQ) stated that the retreat indicated a ‘lack of fighting spirit’ and later sent the company (B Company) primarily involved in the engagement back in to attempt to retake the position. (This was to set the pattern of underestimating what had actually been achieved, and of starting a merry go round of replacing good experienced officers with newer officers newly tasked with instructions to ‘get the job done’.)
On 9th August, 3 companies (ie, 430 men of A, B and C company of the 39th Battalion) were sent from different directions (paths and jungle tracks) to retake the position, at that stage held by 1000 Japanese troops. C company was ambushed on the track and pinned down for an entire day before withdrawing at nightfall. B company encountered a Japanese force (actually advancing to take Deniki) on their track and fought a two day fighting retreat. A company, approaching from a different direction managed to take and hold the lightly defended village of Kokoda, setting up a defensive position on a ridge near the airstrip, hoping to get reinforcement and supplies by air, but this never eventuated due to communication problems. Initially the Japanese had only sent one company to confront this force, underestimating its size. The first assaults started in the morning, and after nightfall Japanese soldiers started to infiltrate the Australian positions and there was close quarters fighting throughout the night. However after the retreat of the other two companies, the full force of the Japanese then focused on the village defenders (about 100 men). By 5 PM of the next day the defenders were out of food, and very low on ammunition, and so made a fighting retreat into the jungle to the west. They carried their wounded via several neighbouring tracks and villages, eventually rejoining Australian forces at Isuvara, 5 days after this attack had started. They lost 23 killed with 17 wounded.
This second Kokoda engagement had a strategic consequences out of proportion to the size of the forces engaged. The bold attack on Kokoda came as a surprise to Japanese commanders in Rabaul who reasoned that if the Australians were bold enough to retake Kokoda, even if only briefly, then they must have a large force in the area. This prompted the Japanese to consider postponing the attack on Port Moresby until more troops and supplies arrived, and until Milne Bay was taken. This was reinforced by news of the US landing at Guadalcanal, on 7 August. On 16 August a decision to postpone the attempt to take Port Moresby was made. Senior Japanese officers interviewed after the war thought that the factor most influencing the postponement was not Guadalcanal but rather ‘stronger than anticipated Australian resistance at Kokoda.’
The Australians fought a brief “resist then retreat” actions at Deniki losing 6 dead and 4 wounded.
On 26th of August General Horii moved 2,500 troops forward against the 39th Battalion and elements of the 49th and 53rd Battalions dug in at Isurava (1200 men in total) and with the aid of mortar and mountain gun support almost succeeded in breaking through. The Australians brought up another battalion (800 men) and re-established their original positions. (The method being short sharp counter attacks, quick dashes forward by men using automatic weapons, Brens and some Thompson guns, covered by heavier machine guns). Losses were high. General Horii realized the defenders had been reinforced so committed his own reserves, bringing his attacking force up to 6,500 men. By the 28th of August the Japanese were repeatedly attacking frontally and on both flanks. By 29 August they had moved men into positions in ridges either side of the defenders, pouring machine gun and mortar fire down in support of each attack.
As their perimeter shrank again on 29 August, and Japanese companies began to close in on the flanks, the defenders retreated. The heavily mauled Japanese did not immediately pursue them. Both sides were by now suffering severely from dysentery and malaria. Over the period from 25 August to 31 August the Australians lost 99 killed and 111 wounded.
The Australians left a group to defend then retreat from Eora and Templeton’s crossing, with an Australian loss of 21 killed and 54 wounded. Japanese losses there were about double the Australian losses.
The Australians dug in 1495 men for a determined defense at Efogi. (Better known in Australia as the battle of Mission Ridge-Brigade Hil) This was a good defensive position, and good visibility of open areas allowed US air support to cause casualties among the advancing Japanese forces. But the Australians were subject to accurate artillery fire, and unfortunately the Australian commander had positioned his men in three groups one behind the other with gaps between positions. The total Japanese force taking part in the entire assault on this position was only 1570 men, but Japanese flanking moves were somewhat lucky and moved a battalion onto a ridge in precisely between two of the Australian positions. Fierce Australian counter attacks failed to dislodge them, and half of all Australian casualties at Efogi occurred in those engagements.
The simple summary of “the Australians counter attacked but could not break through” does not do the men of either side justice here. It is worth reading the words of Kokichi Nishimura (Book, The Bone Man of Kokoda) on the Australian counter -attacks at Efogi. Nishimura’s platoon had climbed all night to establish positions on the ridge and dug shallow defensive scrapes just off the ridge line in the jungle. “The Australians counter attacked at 7.00 AM, at 10.30 AM, at 3.00 PM and at 4.30 PM. The bullets came like rain and we often could not see the men until they were 10 meters away”*. Fighting was at extremely close quarters, with Nishimura wounded through the upper chest in the final counter attack by two bullets from a submachine gun which had glanced off his helmet at point blank range. He killed the man who had shot him, but was almost completely incapacitated himself. By dawn, the Australians had slipped away into the jungle and he gathered together the survivors of his 25 man platoon. There were only two others besides him, both severely wounded. Both later died, while Nishimura recovered and went on to serve (and survive) in Burma (an even greater nightmare).
Australian casualties at Efogi were in total 87 dead and 77 wounded but as the Australians disengaged through the jungle some 500 troops were not to get back to their own lines for several weeks. The Japanese lost 60 dead and 165 wounded.
The Australians (with yet another commander at the helm as they were all replaced at each perceived failure) next dug in at Ioribaiwa, and the Japanese by now could only muster 1650 fighting men. (Horii had by now landed 10,000 men, and had initially sent 6500 forward over the mountains.) The Australians had a numerical advantage here, but were subject to intense bombardment by 8 artillery pieces, causing 50% of their casualties. Japanese flanking moves ran into extended Australian defences, and a fighting stalemate ensued. Unfortunately the new Australian commander blinked first, perhaps mainly because of the artillery fire and not knowing of his significant numerical advantage, and so pulled his force back to Imita Ridge.
All of these actions were initially seen and portrayed by high command, especially McArthur, as defeats. In fact they were all extremely well fought engagements and extremely sapping on Japanese strength and morale, and Ioribaiwa was to be as far as the Japanese were to advance. The losses in Guadalcanal, and the naval actions which cut off supplies and reinforcements came into play at this point and when the Australians later regrouped and moved to retake Ioribaiwa, they found the Japanese gone, now in retreat to Gona and Buna on the north coast.
The later battles of Buna and Gona in November/December of that year were terribly mismanaged by MacArthur and similarly absent Australian commanders, as they sent inadequate forces into action with no artillery or heavy weapons to retake what were supposed to be lightly manned makeshift defences. In fact it was primarily a swamp and the Japanese had built hundreds of earth covered log reinforced bunkers with overlapping fields of fire on any raised ground, all equipped with machine guns. Instead of the 1,500 defenders there were 6,500. The bunkers were overgrown by jungle and virtually invisible until they opened fire. Many of the brave men who had fought the fighting retreat over the horrific Kokoda trail were subsequently lost here. Many US troops (some who had clawed their way across mountain trails even worse than Kokoda (terrain wise, but no Japanese defenders) saw their first action under these terrible conditions, and died under the command of another merry go round of command replacements as the Japanese positions held out. Eventually Bren gun carriers then light tanks were landed to take the positions, but these too suffered terribly, restricted as they were to narrow log tracks in the swamps; tracks covered well by Japanese antitank guns.
There is much that could be said about the fighting at Buna/Gona but this quote perhaps sums it up:
“After we took the position I was amazed to see the bodies of our dead were covered in a fine green powder. I was looking in wonder and could not work out what it was, then I realized it was finely shredded leaves from the machine gun fire.” *
“The Bone Man of Kokoda”. Kokichi Nishimura
“A Bastard of a Place” Peter Brune
“The Ghost Mountain Boys” James Campbell
And: http://kokoda.commemoration.gov.au/into-the-mountains/
* (Quotes and times not exact: Have not got the books in front of me right now).

Reply to  markx
December 8, 2014 2:43 am

Fascinating account, thanks for posting.
I’m a Viet Nam vet, and I can recomment a book I know you would enjoy, We Were Soldiers Once, And Young by Harold Moore. The fighting was every bit as vicious, although starvation wasn’t a problem.

Reply to  markx
December 8, 2014 4:59 pm

Thanks DB. I will get that book and read it.
I have also read a lot on Vietnam (or the American War as the Vietnamese call it) and marvel at the men who struggled there; especially how hard they fought in a war which was unfocussed and chaotic.
Hats off to you and your comrades in arms and all who weathered that conflict, from all sides.
Many of us who, like me, have been lucky enough to live in times and places free of such struggles perhaps need to stop and give thanks occasionally for how fortunate we have been.

Reply to  markx
December 8, 2014 5:22 pm

Perhaps an error in the above account of the battle at Efogi. (Mission Ridge-Brigade Hill). Another account says the Japanese attacked with 5,000 men, not 1,500. (1,500 may have been the flanking force).
This makes more sense given the numbers available, and the established tactical doctrine that to take a fixed position a numerical advantage of 4 to 1 is usually required.

Reply to  markx
December 8, 2014 6:01 pm

A very good account of The Buna-Goma battle:
Shows MacArthur in a very poor light.

December 6, 2014 3:33 pm

One should also note that cowardly JohnHoward abolished Australia’s armament manufacturing businesses.

lyn roberts
December 6, 2014 4:01 pm

Website for Bombing of Northern Australia by Japanese forces, also mentions USA ship’s close by and in harbor at time.

lyn roberts
December 6, 2014 4:06 pm

website for Invasion of Papua New Guinea by Japanese Forces, and Australian response.

December 6, 2014 4:10 pm

Australia is rapidly heading down the path to 3rd world status. We won’t grow nor make anything for Australia. Ford and Holden (GM) are pulling out in 2016. China is buying so much farmland, not to grow anything for Australians, it’s quite amazing. And our politicans are supporting this drive!
Thankfully, by the time people (Greens etc) and politicians realise what’s going on, I’ll be long dead!

Reply to  Patrick
December 6, 2014 4:26 pm

Learn to speak Spanish, and sneak across the southern U.S. border. You’ll be fine.

Reply to  Gamecock
December 6, 2014 7:33 pm

Que? And change my name to Manuel?

High Treason
December 6, 2014 5:14 pm

Australia is 4th world. A previously developed nation that lives on borrowed money and sells off what productive assets it has to fund the first world lifestyle.I have exactly the same feeling-hope to be gone by the time the SHTF, but alas, I probably will be around. I keep telling my kids that hopefully I will be gone by then, but you guys WILL be around and it is not going to be pretty.
So many people are just so STUPID- they just refuse to listen. These morons will be the first to complain-“why didn’t you do something. “

michael hart
December 6, 2014 5:33 pm

As New order sang: “Everything’s Gangreen”

December 6, 2014 5:46 pm
December 6, 2014 5:53 pm

Finally someone has nailed the lunacy of the de-industrialisation of my country. During WWII we made tanks ships, fighter planes, field guns, rifles, submachine guns, machine guns, tyres, lathes, milling machines as well as the thousands of other bits and pieces that a nation needs to defend itself.
In recent years hundreds of manufacturing plants have closed or are closing- Timken bearings, ACL engine parts and pistons, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Holden and Ford engine and car plants, Borg Warner, Sunshine Harvesters, Chamberlain tractors………I could type for hours.
All the while the Greenies sip cafe lattes, tap on their Chinese made IPads and talk about their latest trip to Nepal without acknowledging it was courtesy of JetA1 fossil fuel.

December 6, 2014 6:38 pm

OT but I don’t where else to ask: what happened to Watts et al (2012) paper? A new version of it was promised more than two years ago and we still haven’t seen it. Any info?

December 6, 2014 7:26 pm

I do not agree with Vic Forbes.
Australia is now leading the world in rolling back the warmulonian inanity. Australia has voted in a PM who stated before the election “global warming is crap” and after the election that Australia would tolerate no more “socialism masquerading as environmentalism”. The carbon tax introduced by the Mendacious Bovine has been repealed as has the mining tax. Flim Flammery has been sacked from his $180,000 per year climate commissioner job. Further the RET (renewable energy target) has been placed under review, causing a 87% crash in “investment” in Big Wind subsidy farming. So there is a lot of good news.
While the green tape and carbon tax during the Gillardio-Kruddulence era did cause a significant impact on industry, the primary causes of de-industrialisation has been the union movement and wage competition from Asian neighbours.
[Warmulonian? The mods have new mental images of interstellar TV characters complete with worried eyes, warped foreheads and fevered brows. .mod]

Reply to  Konrad.
December 6, 2014 10:15 pm

Well, I have to disagree with you, to a point. The incumbent gummint is pro-progress and not so pro-AGW, but a semi-supporter (For votes you understand).
By far the biggest fools in Australia, are the Australian people. To allow themselves to be fooled by the likes of Flannery (Who’s first degree level qualification is English lit) and Garnout (Who in the 70’s negotiated with the PNG Govn’t to allow land to be sold for mining, the Ok Tedi gold mines of which he was on the board of directors and profitted handsomely out of it too).
PS. No-one in Australia votes for a PM. Voters in Abbotts electorate vote for him as an MP. It’s the party who elects a leader (Abbott) who usually becomes the PM after an election and forming a Govn’t.

December 6, 2014 8:51 pm

The rise and rise of authoritarian television in the guise of Reality TV in Australia really concerns me. I wanted to research their funding as I suspect a Green money trail that will lead to those of a globalist mindset. However, It is just another one of the detailed and obsessive things I probably won’t find time to complete.
The sheer volume of this type of programming on Free-to-air during primetime in Australia is astonishing to me!
The production company Greenstone (G)* is responsible for a large number of the programs and it turns out, almost all of this type (Their Factual Series.) were funded by Government (NZTV in this case).
Here is a sample of the Brave New World of of Australia television:
Border Patrol (G)
Border Invasion USA
Border Security: International
Border Security USA
Coastwatch (G)
Coastwatch OZ (G)
City Beat (G)
Beat Squad (G)
Dog Patrol (G)
Dog Squad (G)
Send in the Dogs (British)
The Force Behind the LInes
Highway Patrol (G)
Motorway Patrol (G)
Highway Cops (G)
Highway Patrol – Outrageous Characters (G)
Highway Patrol – Worst Drivers (G)
Nabbed (G)
Cops – Miami Florida
Cops – Adults Only: Coast to Coast
Cops – Special Edition
There are more and many are less overtly authoritarian but of high propaganda value:
Cause of Death: Unknown (G)
Courtroom (G)
CIU – Crash Investigation Unit (G)
Private Investigators (G)
Serious Crash Unit – SCU (G)
Special Investigators (G) etc…
*December 2013 Greenstone was purchased by Australian company Cordell Jigsaw Zapruder known as CJZ.

Reply to  Scott Wilmot Bennett
December 6, 2014 10:08 pm

Another reason why I have PVR. FtA TV is a disgrace in Aus, and I refuse to pay for Foxtel (Ads). FtA and Foxtel TV will soon be a thing of the past (Where have we heard thta before?) when NetFlix comes to Aus.

Reply to  Scott Wilmot Bennett
December 6, 2014 10:30 pm

Spot on Scott.
Someone also gave an opinion that the great glut of CSI shows on US television is meant to fool Amercans into thinking they actually have a functioning legal system. While the truth is 95% of incarcerations in the USA result from plea bargains (ie locked up with minimal access to legal advice- visiting hours only – and threatened with a raft of dire charges and sentences, unless you plead guilty to this one so you will only get a few years.)

Reply to  markx
December 7, 2014 2:32 am

The CSI shows are pure propaganda IMHO, the real history is very telling! To be a coroner was and still is one of the most corrupt and corruptible institutions ever invented! But do you ever hear anybody speak of it?
I just glanced at the TV guide tonight and noticed a couple of new reality shows:
Gold Coast Cops
Territory Cops
And here is a list of drama series that aired weekly (Some twice weekly) in Australia when I compiled it. Note their underlying commonalities:
Elementary (American crime drama)
Dexter (American crime drama)
The Shield (American Crime drama)
Person of Interest (American crime drama)
Longmire (American crime drama)
The Killing (American crime drama)
CSI (American police procedural crime drama)
CSI: Miami (American police procedural crime drama)
Major Crimes (American police procedural drama)
The Mentalist (American police procedural drama)
The Closer (American police procedural drama)
NCIS (American police procedural drama)
NCIS: Los Angeles (American military/police procedural drama)
Cold Case (American police procedural drama)
Criminal Minds (American police procedural drama)
Hannibal (American Thriller/Police procedural drama)
Blue Bloods (American police procedural drama)
Waking The Dead (British police procedural crime drama )
The Bill (British police procedural series)
Blue Murder (Crime drama)
Lewis (Detective drama)
Fairly Legal (Legal drama/Comedy-drama)
Danger Man (Espionage)
The Americans (Period drama about KGB spies)
Breaking Bad (Crime thriller)
Persons Unknown (Detention(?)/Thriller)
New Tricks (British Comedy/Drama/Crime)

Reply to  markx
December 7, 2014 3:50 am

I could have summed up that list with the word “crap”! so much easier to type…

December 6, 2014 9:28 pm

he Collins Class submarine was a good design. The build quality, not so good; as the Coles Report attested.

December 7, 2014 11:05 am

When you heat the environazis talk about “green”, take your wallet out of your pocket and look at the contents. That is the “green” the environazis are referring to.

December 7, 2014 12:03 pm

Australia any time soon will get heavy rainfall, it will be more green.

December 7, 2014 2:33 pm

Lewis P Buckingham
December 6, 2014 at 12:43 pm
“We desperately need submarines to protect us and our sea lanes.”
Any maybe a port facility not owned by China.

December 9, 2014 5:40 am

[snip – we don’t publish long comments in all caps because it LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE SHOUTING! resubmit in lower case please -mod]

Cam (Melbourne, Australia)
December 20, 2014 3:10 am

I actually disagree to some extent. Whilst the Greens command far too much clout for a minor party (getting typically 10-12% of the primary vote) and overachieves in the media due to its sensationalism, it was the former Government (yes, who got into bed with the Greens) that started this by making the business investment environment in Australia completely ‘fluid’, after near on 25 years of relative stability, under proactive reforms, consultative processes and sound economic policies (under both Labor and Liberal regimes).
The current Government is trying to rectify this, but is now stuck like a rabbit in the headlights due to negativity in the press and in the polls. The resources super profit tax, the ETS/CT, umming and ahhing about company tax rates, the non-response to the Henry Review, its incestuous links with the trade union movement and the resultant outlandish wages and conditions in the resources industry, combined with a higher than required official cash rate due to the obsessive spending (and borrowing under the Rudd/Gillard regime), resulted in the Aussie dollar being far too high, and killing the export market. Add to this the ALP’s mantra of ‘big government is good government, and the resulting bureaucratic bottlenecks, it is now wonder big business is pulling out of Australia.
Green ideologies are just one factor.

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