Awww… Mike Mann's summer vacation was ruined by the 'spectre of climate change'

“Hockey stick” conjurer Michael Mann’s recent article bemoaned how, even on vacation, he couldn’t get away from his work. He traveled to Glacier National Park and was confronted with the “spectre of climate change” in the form of melting glaciers.

glacier-park-postcardClimatologist David Legates, on the other hand, points out that those glaciers have been melting since around 1860! Instead of crying about Earth’s climate, he spent his vacation much more productively: celebrating the wondrous contributions that hydrocarbon energy has made in our lives and living standards over the last 150 years. He shares his experiences in this informative commentary.

What I did on my summer vacation – another climatologist’s perspective

by Dr. David R. Legates

I recently read an article in which “hockey stick” creator and climatologist Michael Mann discussed his summer vacation. Reporting on his travels to Montana, Dr. Mann lamented the fact that glaciers in Glacier National Park are receding. He blamed this on human-caused climate change. He said he tried to get away from work but just couldn’t, because the “spectre of climate change stares you in the face as you tour the park.”

I likewise did my level best to get away from life, but was no more successful. You see, I’m a not just a climatologist. I am also a human being, and am acutely aware of the life-long struggle for survival experienced by billions of destitute, desperate people on our planet – and of the innovative, determined human spirit that stares you in the face as you peruse the daily news and tour our nation’s museums.

Dr. Mann was viewing glaciers that have actually been receding since the end of the Little Ice Age, back around 1860. He got upset because he thinks (and wants us to believe) that they have been losing ice only since 1975 or so – and it’s our fault, because carbon dioxide emissions from our cars, factories, electricity generating plants, home heating units and other sources are causing “unprecedented” global warming.

I instead visited three museums that are within a one-hour drive from my home: the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasbourg, PA, the Air Mobility Command Museum at Dover Air Force Base in Dover, Delaware, and the Chesapeake-Delaware Canal Museum in Chesapeake City, Maryland.

What I saw underscored how far we Americans have come since the Civil War and Industrial Revolution, in large part because of fossil fuel-driven technology – and how far billions of less fortunate people worldwide still have to go, to achieve a standard of living, health and welfare close to what we enjoy. Unfortunately, and unforgivably, they are being held back by policies that elevate misplaced concern about hydrocarbon energy and “dangerous manmade climate change” above the needs of people.

At the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania you see the impacts the railway had on building this great nation. From simple steam engines that could carry just two people, to huge steam locomotives that connected our country’s two far-flung shores, to the diesel and electric locomotives that built the industrial backbone of this country, the ingenuity of the last 150-plus years sits quietly on display as an historical reminder of our legacy.

The Air Mobility Command Museum is a testimony not just to aviation, but to air cargo transportation.  The amazing machines, and the intrepid men and women who flew them, helped us move equipment and supplies to support troops, provide assistance in areas ravaged by natural disasters or human catastrophes, and keep freedom alive in places like West Berlin during the 1948-49 airlift.

They also stand as marvelous monuments to human innovation – and a testament to our ability and determination to support freedom and democracy, and lend assistance when needed to the plight of those less fortunate, even when located in the far reaches of our planet.

Connecting two important waterways, the Chesapeake-Delaware Canal is truly a miracle of human entrepreneurship. Originally dug by hand, the fourteen-mile-long canal connects the Chesapeake and Delaware Bays, reducing the shipping distance from Baltimore to Philadelphia by nearly 300 miles.

Eventually, the canal was deepened and its locks removed, to allow goods to be shipped directly by ocean-going vessels without having to offload them to a turnpike, or later the railway. This greatly increased the region’s economic viability and encouraged development of the mid-Atlantic area.

But as I looked these monuments, I did so with sadness. This ingenuity was brought about by forward-looking men and women who used their energies to develop machines and enhance their efficiency, with the ultimate goal of helping humankind.

Today, however, there are those who see this effort as wrong and (dare I say it?) even evil. They want to restrict energy and its availability, and thereby limit our ingenuity, innovation and progress by draining the very lifeblood that made these earlier developments possible.  Without coal and oil, there would have been no railroads and no cargo transportation, either by air or by sea.

Democracy would likely have been but a distant memory in most of Europe and Southeast Asia – or maybe not even a memory at all.  The United States would not have developed as it did, and it certainly would not be the world’s leader in innovative thinking that it is today.  It is quite likely that we would not be far removed from the conditions in which Africa currently finds itself.

These three museums only offer a small glimpse at the myriad of marvels produced by human ingenuity, and the role that hydrocarbon energy has played in them since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. The development of inexpensive energy led to phenomenal, previously unheard of increases in industrial output and worker efficiency, in wages and free time, in living standards and human health and welfare.

They also provided us with the weekend and vacation time, and the physical wherewithal, to experience the wonders of God’s creation — as well as the ability to attend to environmental stewardship.

It is all these opportunities that people in undeveloped and under-developed countries wish to emulate. But for that to happen, we must help keep the cost of energy low and shun policies and practices that make it expensive and unreliable. If we make energy so expensive that only the rich can afford it, the poor and the vulnerable will be denied access, and will be condemned to nasty, brutal and short lives marked by squalor, deprivation, starvation and disease.

I find it immoral to suggest that the abject poverty, disease and malnutrition that still afflict much of the world must be ignored, while we concern ourselves with “saving the planet from global warming.”

Are national park glaciers – whose existence and demise are affected primarily by the same natural forces that repeatedly spawned and melted mile-high, continent-wide Pleistocene ice fields – more important than the more unfortunate inhabitants of our planet? Assuming, of course, that by addressing greenhouse gas emissions we can positively alter the planet’s climate, or that we can know what climate is optimal.

It is ironic that it is our affluence – created by our technological innovations and use of hydrocarbons – which has allowed us to become environmentally conscious. When people are in dire need of food, clothing, shelter and other basic necessities of life, they cannot be concerned with environmental issues. To cite just one example of thousands, because the people of India and Bangladesh are so poor, the Ganges River serves as both their source of drinking water and their cesspool for untreated sewage. Their poverty prevents them from focusing on even the most basic environmental concerns.

Moreover, freedom and energy availability go hand-in-hand. Oppression thrives when subjects are kept poor and deprived of technological advancements. When people have the time and ability to travel and communicate, to be innovative, and to organize to produce a better way of life or fight a common enemy – freedom grows. Inexpensive energy is the key to ending both poverty and oppression.

More than two million people will visit Glacier National Park this year, to marvel at nature. I wonder how they would have gotten there … or whether they would have had the time to do so … if it were not for the transportation innovations that resulted from hydrocarbon fuels.

I would encourage them to visit these museums – or museums like them – to see what humans have built, and ponder what our future will likely be if backward-thinking policies cause their legacy to vanish. May they marvel at the wonders of nature, and perhaps lament the loss of glaciers. But may they also lament the loss of life caused by too little use of fossil fuels, not by too much of such life-enhancing fuels.

__________

David R. Legates, PhD, CCM, is a Professor of Climatology at the University of Delaware in Newark, Delaware, USA.

h/t to Paul Driessen

Advertisements

139 thoughts on “Awww… Mike Mann's summer vacation was ruined by the 'spectre of climate change'

  1. New flash, Mr. Mann. The glaciers in Glacier National Park have been melting for a lot longer than the time humans have been using fossil fuels. Might I suggest a Geology 101 course. If you have the acumen to pass that, perhaps you could try Geomorphology.

    • USGS says they reached their maximum size around 1850, when forest clearing and burning was at its heyday: http://nrmsc.usgs.gov/research/glacier_retreat.htm
      And I don’t buy the false dichotomy Dr. Legates espouses. Rich countries shifting towards renewables does not mean poor countries have to stop developing, and in fact rich countries can develop technologies that help the poor countries follow a more sustainable development path, learning from past mistakes.

      • Coal fired power is the most sustainable form of power we currently have …
        ….because it feeds the world’s biosphere, releasing that building block of all life on Earth, CO2, from sequestered carbon deposits.

      • Maybe in another couple decades our ability to use solar will be advanced enough to provide some electricity to the third world…. Until then it is extremely immoral to deny funding of fossicle fuel powered energy to those who need it, as banks have done. The false dichotomy is your own since many thousands more will needlessly die prematurely due, primarily, to their inability to produce energy. To say that we can use our present green techknowledgy to help them now is hopelessly naive.

      • Developing countries have been refused loans by the World Bank for the funds to build coal fired power stations. This happened to Malawi where there is plenty of coal. They continue to struggle.

      • Don’t worry the eeevil World (American) Bank has stopped funding fossil fuel plants but the freeedom loving Communist Party of the Peoples Republic of China is ready with the dollars. Any African nation that is willing to give up a little farm land and provide minor access to mineral resources can get a new Ultra- Supercritical Boiler http://www.power-technology.com/projects/yuhuancoal/

      • The USGS is cherry picking if they say the maximum was around 1850. They’re only considering the Holocene. Was Puget Sound being scoured by glaciers in 1850? The Cordilleran ice sheet covered much more area 25,000 years ago, and many times previous to that. God I hate it when government bureaucrats and government funded sucklings ignore geology when talking about climate change.

    • He might be more suited to Theology. Climate Theology, that is … all glaciers melt, it’s what they do isn’t it, otherwise the whole of the USA would be covered still from the Ice Age.

    • The receding Mendenhall glacier has exposed the remains of a thousand year old forest. Warmer temps during the MWP??

    • “Guess the glaciers didn’t melt during the MWP.
      ..
      Must be warmer now then during the MWP”
      Because glaciers never move an inch, especially downhill.

      • Carbon date the tree stumps at the edge of the melting glaciers in Glacier National Park, then get back to me …

      • “Carbon date the tree stumps at the edge of the melting glaciers in Glacier National Park, then get back to me …”
        You haven’t understood. Your idiotic statement would only make any sense if glaciers didn’t move. I was not referring to any trees.

    • S.tracton, I’m sitting here waiting for what I’m sure will be your highly educated response to Richard T’s statement…
      Waiting…
      Still waiting…
      Observation: WUWT is a tough place to just spout crap – too many people here really do know what they’re talking about.

      • Carbon date the tree stumps at the edge of the melting glaciers in Glacier National Park, then get back to me.
        See if you can find any < 3000 years old.

      • s.tracton
        At issue is whether it was warmer in the past than after the industrial revolution.
        The exposed tree stumps demonstrate that before the industrial revolution there was a period warmer than now. Whether that warmer period was 1,000 years ago or 3,000 years ago does not alter the fact that there was a period when it was warmer than now before the industrial revolution..
        You introduced the irrelevance of WHEN before the industrial revolution it was warmer than now by raising the MWP which everyone assumed to be the Medieval Warm Period 1,000 years ago. But you are not disputing that it was warmer than now 3,000 years ago in the Minoan Warm Period which is also an MWP.
        Richard

    • Does this help, not Glacier National Park but high Andes.
      Evidence of a high-Andean, mid-Holocene plant community: An ancient DNA analysis of glacially preserved remains
      Methods: We examined remains between 4576 and 5222 yr old, using PCR amplification, cloning, and sequencing of a fragment of the chloroplast trnL intron. We then matched these sequences to sequences in GenBank.
      Key results: We found evidence of at least five taxa characteristic of wetlands, which occur primarily at lower elevations in the region today.
      Conclusions: A diverse community most likely existed at these locations the last time they were ice-free and thus has the potential to reestablish with time. This is the first genetic analysis of vegetation uncovered by receding glacial ice, and it may become one of many as ancient plant materials are newly uncovered in a changing climate.

      Read more here:=
      http://www.amjbot.org/content/97/9/1579.full

  2. I wonder what measures Mann has taken personally, to reduce his “carbon footprint.” Like all sneering arrogant hypocritical human-hating elitists, he wants to inflict his “return to the Stone Age” energy philosophy on the rest of us while exempting himself and the other members of the Green Nomenklatura.

    • Stone age humans had fire. These eco-bleeps think fire is bad. Clearly they want us to devolve to a state before we had fire. Did we have language then? Were we human then? When was the fall from eco-Eden? When we got fire? Language? Walked upright? Dropped from the trees? Ceased being amoeba?
      Sorry for the rant, but I feel strongly about this.

      • You are quite right-the eco-loonies want to return to the Neolithic Era when the planet supported between 1 and 10 million humans, not 7 billion. Funny how they do not tell us their “Utopia” entails we become 99.9% human-free.

  3. We were there last week, also. The glaciers are little different visibly them what they were 2001 and 1991, when we visited the park.
    I’m glad I didn’t know Mann was there. It might have adversely affected my day.

    • We were there in early August. There is a picture of the glacier above Hidden Lake taken in 1930 — hard to see much difference in extent of glacier then versus now.

  4. The Wisonsononion Glacier [melted] from SE WI to above the arctic circle over 15 THOUSAND years ago. Duh!

  5. It’s a matter of rates, I guess. Some of the glaciers in the cascades that I remember are now snow fields. They don’t move anymore. So maybe they were retreating, but now it’s dramatic. Our grandchildren won’t see them as glaciers. I guess that’s okay with all you.

    • Yes! I’d be very happy to see every last bit of ice melt. Unfortunately, we’re still in the Pleistocene and it’s not going to happen. Instead of bemoaning the coming and going of ice, you ought to thank your lucky stars you lived during an interglacial and not a max. If you want to experience what you’re complaining about go visit Antarctica. The chances of your grandchildren experiencing ice are far greater than not.

    • Exactly, I’d be very happy if we lived in a climate like the early eocene. No ice from pole to pole. But that doesn’t look very likely according to mounting evidence.

    • Being OK is irrelevant. Climate changes and ice fields come and go without asking anyone’s opinion. Fact is retreating glaciers in Europe and Greenland are revealing villages buried when the glaciers advanced. The people who lived there were not given a choice, The lucky ones became climate refugees the unlucky ones died.

  6. HEAR HEAR!
    All mankind would be infinitely better off if we concentrated on furthering the achievements of the giant minds and productive hands of men and women from our remarkable history – rather than listen to the ravings of low-life depressive maniacs like MM. The real irony is that some fools pay him to continue with those useless ramblings.
    Philosophers, Artists, Engineers and Scientists have take us from the Stone Age to the society we enjoy now.
    What we do need is more of our genuine heroes fixing the real problems like sanitation, clean water and housing for the more disadvantaged countries.
    This diabolical waste of useful funds on chasing phantom ‘bogeymen’ must be stopped NOW!

  7. And in my neck of the woods at Hallett Cove in South Australia-
    http://www.sa.gsa.org.au/Brochures/HallettCoveBrochure.pdf
    “During the Recent ice age about 20 000 years ago,
    sea level was about 130 metres lower than today
    and South Australia’s coastline was about 150
    kilometres south of where Victor Harbor now is.
    The ice cap started to melt about 15 000 years ago.
    Sea level began to rise and reached its present level
    about 6000–7000 years ago.”
    Obviously a result of all those aboriginal cooking fires and bush burnoffs to flush out marsupial game
    No doubt the usual suspects at The Guardian are choking on their imported fair trade coffee over our Prime Minister’s recent observations-
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/29/tony-abbott-says-first-fleet-arrival-is-the-defining-moment-in-australian-history

    • I am in Brissie. I keep pointing out to our local Watermelons that 16,000 years ago you could walk from Geelong to Hobart, and people indeed did. Then Bass Strait happened. I don’t think a LOT of Toyota Hiluxs’ were on the roads at the time. Bass Strait is 50-70m deep (hasn’t changed much at all for 7,000 years) and throwing a bucket load of CO2 at the waves will just get you wet and cold!

  8. I’m guessing the Mann the Maroon didn’t visit in 2011 for obvious reasons.
    http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/glacier-s-going-to-the-sun-road-to-open-july/article_a91704e2-a909-11e0-ae30-001cc4c03286.html
    I was fortunate enough to be treated to a lecture on the crown of the continent later that year.
    http://www.nps.gov/glac/naturescience/ccrlc.htm
    The lecturer was a bit dis-heartened in the global warming section of his presentation because they were unable to measure how much the glaciers had receded that summer because the snow made the glaciers inaccessible. I was able to internalize my laughter (just barely)..

  9. Legates is a signatory of the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation’s “An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming”.[9]
    The declaration states:
    “We believe Earth and its ecosystems — created by God’s intelligent design and infinite power and sustained by His faithful providence — are robust, resilient, self-regulating, and self-correcting, admirably suited for human flourishing, and displaying His glory. Earth’s climate system is no exception.”
    Says it all.

    • Hear, hear.
      This greatness was created for us, given to our care. But as with the Parable of the talents, we know we are to put it to good use, and make it prosperous, profitable. We were never meant to preserve it as we found it.
      And it is manifestly obviously that no matter how great we think we are, before this greatness we are hardly noticed. It is beyond our capacity to truly harm this planet. Our magnificent advanced civilization can be wiped out with a single hiccup from the Sun. A single stray asteroid can do more damage in ten minutes than we could in ten centuries.
      Says it all, indeed.
      Good find. Have a jerky strip.

    • Isaac Newton had similar religious beliefs regarding “intelligent design”, dabbled in occultism and alchemy, and held private religious views that if had been made public, would have branded him a heretic (eg he rejected the concept of the trinity).
      His physics turned out to be pretty darned good though.

    • There was this one thing that was said as well. ” Go forth and multiply ” We are doing that but I hope it is for the betterment. The Mann’s of this world , as was stated earlier, seem to want to go in the opposite direction.

    • I guess you guys really better not read what the illustrious John Kerry has said about climate change.
      Oh, btw; did you know he won three purple hearts?
      There are believers in a higher power on both sides of this argument and that alone disqualifies no-one.
      Ad-hominems are not science.

  10. I agree with you. I, too, find it immoral that fat cat western enviromentalists (sic) are determined to keep Africa poor for the benefit of their own piety. It is a pernicious colonialism. (hey, throw their own ideological garbage back in their face)

  11. Rather hard to get away from Climate Change at Glacier National Park. When I was there in 2004 all the NPS informational signs had some mention of how much the glaciers had receded since the old photos include in the signs were taken. And those signs were rather faded with age and sun exposure.

    • My guess is there’s no glacier in North America south of 60, with the possible exception of the Columbia Ice Field in Banff/Jaspar, that predates the LIA. We’re still below the global temps of the MWP, so the glacial remnants may not melt away completely before the next cooling period. And that might be upon us already.

  12. I wonder if Mr. Mann even knows or cares about this – my CAPS – Ref. sorry – Wackapedia :
    Going-to-the-Sun Road is the only road that crosses Glacier National Park in Montana, USA, going over the Continental Divide at Logan Pass. It was completed in 1932. …
    …The road is one of the most difficult roads in North America to snowplow in the spring. Up to 80 feet (24 m) of snow can lie on top of Logan Pass, and more just east of the pass where the deepest snowfield has long been referred to as Big Drift. The road takes about ten weeks to plow, even with equipment that can move 4000 tons of snow in an hour. The snowplow crew can clear as little as 500 feet (150 m) of the road per day. On the east side of the continental divide, there are few guardrails due to heavy snows and the resultant late winter avalanches that have repeatedly destroyed every protective barrier ever constructed. The road is generally open from early June to mid October, with ITS LATEST EVER OPENING ON JULY 13 2011.
    So, the Going-to-the-Sun Road was opened before July 11th in 1932, 1933, 1934, 1935, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951. 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010. (I don’t think it was because of the plow technology – check the glacier park plowing photos.)
    Do you think Michael Mann is at all aware of this?
    Has he checked Hubbard Glacier (the largest tidewater glacier in North America) or Taku Glacier (the largest glacier in the Juneau Ice field)? Both are advancing…

    • J.P. Peterson;
      No, you’ve got it all wrong.
      You see, advancing glaciers must be warming and melting more causing them to slip faster down the mountain.
      See, scientifically both retreating AND and advancing glaciers are scientific PROOF of CAGW.
      You must now know much about science.
      /sarc off

  13. Don’t be too tough on Mikey.
    It’s a long bicycle ride from Penn State to Glacier National Park and back again.
    No way he added to global warming so he could waste resources traveling on hydrocarbons.

  14. “…glaciers have been melting since around 1860!”
    (it must have been those infernal steam-driven, polluting trains.)

  15. trafamadore says:
    Some of the glaciers in the cascades that I remember are now snow fields. They don’t move anymore. So maybe they were retreating, but now it’s dramatic. Our grandchildren won’t see them as glaciers. I guess that’s okay with all you.
    Aw-w-w. Retreating glaciers. The same old scare.
    Whatever you ‘remember’ means nothing. You might be right, or you might be wrong. But your mind is made up: global warming is gonna get your grandchildren. And how many glaciers would your grandchildren see, anyway? Do you take them glacier sightseeing? Do you even have grandchildren?
    There are more than 160,000 glaciers on the planet right now. Some are advancing, and some are retreating. More are retreating, because the planet is naturally recovering from the Little Ice Age: one of the coldest times of the current Holocene. What else would you expect?
    There will always be glaciers somewhere. OK then, what’s the next item on your list of things to worry about? Vanishing Arctic ice? Polar bears becoming extinct? Ocean “acidification”? Global methane burps? No more Arctic penguins? Or some other wild-eyed climate scare?
    Relax already. There is nothing unusual happening. It’s all natural. And it’s all good.

    • What principle in physics accounts for the ” naturally recovering from the Little Ice Age”

      Global heat loss?
      Global heat gain?
      Global redistribution of stored heat?
      Net gain of heat?
      Should be easily explainable in terms of thermodynamics.

      • Steve P September 5, 2014 at 8:26 pm…
        And also your explanation for the warming that ended the last glacial max. And the other cooling and warming periods of the Holocene. May as well throw in the cooling and warming that produced glacial maxima and interglacial warm periods all through the Pleistocene. I’m sure I’m not alone waiting with baited breath for your elucidation. TIA

      • The very thing that caused the LIA, likely caused the recovery we now enjoy. Climate is driven by cycles that cause, through weather an albedo change. Polar ice is not the effect of climate change, rather the cause. If you haven’t looked at Alex Popes website, you will have another well thought out point of view to consider
        http://www.Popesclimatetheory.com

      • You’d think so.
        And yet, climate “scientists” have repeatedly failed to explain it, instead going off on the irrelevant and incorrect tangent regarding carbon dioxide.

      • No need to explain anything. Mann’s hockey stick not only got rid of the Medieval Warm Period but also the Little Ice Age.
        The climate and glaciers were in stasis until somebody first rubbed two sticks together.

    • >>Relax already. There is nothing unusual happening. It’s all natural. And it’s all good.<<
      And, much more important, we cannot change a single thing.
      Except in a global thermonuclear war. And even then, some cockroaches will survive…

  16. @trafamadore
    Retreating glacier does not equal catastrophic end of life nor does it even imply that human CO2 emissions are the direct cause of the retreat of the remnant.
    By way of camparison…
    In my kitchen, near the Pacific and near Seattle, the ice was a MILE AND ONE HALF THICK, say 12000 yrs back. Except for miniscule remnants LIKE GLACIER and COLUMBIA etc…this mile and one half THICK ice was ALL G..O…N…E by 6 thousand years ago, long before any human could have been thought to affect the climate. The miniscule ice retreat that brings you to tears for your children, is, by my estimation, also but a remnant and not worthy of your intense concern or knashing of teeth.
    It happens. It HAS happened. It WILL happen, but this blip in geophysical variables is, as yet, but a blip, and is just a tiny reminder of how distorted the conclusions of very sparse data can be, espcecially when used to fuel a religious viewpoint.

  17. I hate to say it, but the Western world seems to have lost its cultural mojo. China today was what Victorian England and post-Civil War US were. China, and to some extent India, have the drive, the vision and the belief in themselves and the future. We seem to have given up and let self-appointed busybodies govern our progress and way of life.

  18. I do believe that “Strasbourg” is in France, and “Strasburg” is in Pa. Very nice area around Strasburg Pa, I visited it often while a student at the Univ. of Delaware.
    Of course with a modern windmill charging up your electric car you could maybe make it from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh in 20 hours or so (on a windy day). That’s a little bit better than the canals and inclined planes (yes canals and inclined planes built by the State of Pennsylvania) across the mountains of western Pa. They where replaced (made obsolete) by the Pennsylvania Railroad (a private enterprise) back in the 1850’s. And then replaced again by the airplane in the 1950’s (for passengers, hauling lots of heavy freight is still done very efficiently by railroads today).
    Cheers, Kevin.

  19. I have come up with a new term that I think beautifully sums up the sub set of humanity that are true believers in CAGW (among other airheaded things).
    They are a “drivelisation”, a post rational degeneration of civilisation which evolved in a pseudo scientific/academic Tower of Babel (which explains the gibberish).

    • Sounds good. ‘Climate driveler’ sounds like a good retort to ‘Climate denier’. Although I’m still most favoring ‘Climate delusionist’ at the moment.

  20. Dr.Legates wrote;
    “Today, however, there are those who see this effort as wrong and (dare I say it?) even evil. They want to restrict energy and its availability, and thereby limit our ingenuity, innovation and progress by draining the very lifeblood that made these earlier developments possible.”
    Indeed, and every one of them is all too willing to jump on a Boeing 747 (or an Airbus, “bus” is an appropriate choice of words IMHO) to fly off to Tahiti and “con-fab” about how “All the rest of us” are ruining the Earth and only with their wisdom might we survive.
    As soon as Michael Mann stops consuming “evil fossil fuels” to fly out to Glacier National Park and “weep” about our future might I even consider taking him seriously. If “global warming” is a awful as he suggests why the h–l is he consuming fossil fuels to observe it’s effects ???? Can’t he call a buddy (OK it’s probably a given that a nerd like him has few “buddies” to call) and ask them to “take a peek at the glacier for me so I don’t have to fly out here and consume all that evil fossil fuel ????
    What a soap opera….
    Cheers, Kevin.

  21. Perhaps Mr. Mann could have a quick read at the “whacky” page on the Columbia ice field before Mr. Connolly decides to change things. Did they really start to melt in 1844???

  22. Work???. You wouldnt last a year as an private sector meteorologist who’s livelihood depends on actually being right

  23. (y)
    Ha ha
    Seems Mann is at the center of his universe for sure and even without an Obama bong.
    His brain is just “wired all wrong.”
    Ditto

  24. I just want to put a good word in for GG-1, now at home in the Pa. State RR Museum in Straussburg. All electric and very efficient is GG-1, just the machinery to soothe the green soul. Although it is in black, not Pennsy green.

  25. >>To cite just one example of thousands, because the people of India and Bangladesh are so poor, the Ganges River serves as both their source of drinking water and their cesspool for untreated sewage. Their poverty prevents them from focusing on even the most basic environmental concerns.<<
    Absolutely right.
    As Bert Brecht said eight decades ago: Grub first, then ethics
    Overpopulation can only be reduces by improving the standard of living. That requires cheap energy. Only then the scales will come into balance.

  26. >>I find it immoral to suggest that the abject poverty, disease and malnutrition that still afflict much of the world must be ignored, while we concern ourselves with “saving the planet from global warming.”<<
    Couldn't agree more. And that abominable Mann still lives in the era of Bến Tre: 'It became necessary to destroy the town to save it'. But the difference is that Mann is trying to persuade the world to destroy itself by means of fighting a non-existent "AGW".

  27. It is truly unfortunate that many among us do not realize and appreciate what the alternative to melting ice land-based masses really means.

  28. If the learned boy scientist would but check the age of snout ice of the world’s glaciers he would discover an amazing fact – it’s been a while since the global climate was glacier-building friendly. Note to the boy wonder – the LIA is over. Most new glacier building ended when it ended. What we have are the eroded remains of a time long gone. Fear not for glaciers – when nature chooses they will return. There is nothing in the kit we humans have that can stop it. Your models are wrong and are junk. The hockey stick is junk. Climate science practiced by the 97% is junk. Nature decides which is right and which is an illusion. American climate science is a global embarrassment. Stop it, now. Just admit and accept you are too stupid to work in this area.

  29. dp
    September 5, 2014 at 11:34 pm

    Stop it, now. Just admit and accept you are too stupid to work in this area.
    _________________________
    May be some are Kerry-like loonies, but none of them is *that* stupid to give away such a lucrative sinecure just because he is incompetent.

  30. Oh, Mann. No way increasing energy price to cool the planet is winning you friends. Even the green politicians have figured it out now.

  31. Having lived in Montana, where there are plenty of eco-loons (especially around the U of M in Missoula), any mention of Glacier NP is always immediately followed up with a sad look of resignation and, “…yeah, gotta go before they’re all gone.”
    It’s not enough that I hate Mann on his own, but the fact that he went acting as if he had no idea of what he’d “find”, makes me loathe him even more. He went there for that purpose alone, just like all the other bits of hikertrash who either inhabit Montana or visit.
    And before you wonder what I’m talking about, unlike Wyoming, Idaho, and the Dakotas, Montana is very close to being a ‘blue’ state. If it wasn’t for Billings – their largest city and a major livestock, mining, and refinery hub – it would be a lock for the Libs.

  32. If you enjoyed Lake McDonald at the west side of the park, then you need to be thankful for glaciers melting. Since the glaciers are below the freeze line they were going to melt over time any way.

  33. If Mann is that worried about the melting glaciers all he had to do was get his buddy St Gore there and thanks to the Gore affect those glaciers would be rolling down the hills before they knew it.

  34. One amazing point about railroads — private industry w/o government help spanned a continent w/tracks in the 1860s. No other country ever accomplished that so early, and then not without “government” help (trans-Siberian railroad).
    Even in the 60s growing up there were still local railroad spurs reaching almost any point even in small towns w/industries lined-up along them. All privately funded and built. Nowadays, even simple state and federal highway “projects” drag on for yrs that private industries would have finished in a tiny fraction of the time.

    • Yes, up until the mid 50s or so, the train station was one of the central locations in any city or town, some of which were “just a whistle stop.”
      The move to the suburbs in the 50s was accompanied by promotion of motor vehicles with a reduced role for rail. In my opinion, the railroads fell victim to the typical greed & corruption fed by success, which ultimately invokes public outcry, and government involvement.
      It’s much less expensive to haul freight by rail, than over the road by truck, but we clever humans have figured out a way to use the less efficient means of transport.

  35. Did Dr Mann walk/bike from his residence to Glacier National Park? Because if he didn’t, he most certainly got there using a fossil fuel transportation, which is creating the very climate change he is worried about.
    So why, if Dr Mann is so concerned, why does he continue to make the problem worse? No one forced him to travel. Dr Mann, if you are so concerned, take a Stay-Cation. Please stop polluting planet earth with your fossil fuel travel so those of us that care can enjoy the carbon free environment.

  36. We seem to have given up and let self-appointed busybodies govern our progress and way of life.
    ==================
    it started small. it started in the early 80’s with the word chairman. the day free speech ended and was replaced by politically correct speech. it was OK to say fzck, but heaven help you if you said chairman.
    Once the rules of free speech went out the window, the seeds were sown. politics were shown to be superior to personal freedoms. the tyranny of the group was superior to the personal rights and freedoms earned through the struggle and deaths of thousands over centuries.
    Personal freedom is the basis of western society. Yet we gave it up without a single shot being fired and replaced it with politics, in the believe that political correctness was more important than freedom. but no one stopped to ask. if we need to say chairperson instead of chairman, why don’t we say wo-person instead of woman?
    AGW is simply an extensions of political correctness. It survives because so many are afraid to speak out. They fear for their jobs and their social standing, over a matter of belief. This intolerance of ideas survives only because we have placed free speech second to politics.

    • Yeah, yeah, but what about the “son” part in “person”?
      I suggest “perundefinedoffspring”. It has the advantage of including heteros, gays, trannies, LSMFTs, and to whom it may concern.

  37. Mann might want to read the national park’s own web page which clearly states (paraphrasing) that the park is so named for the features left by glaciation rather than the glaciers themselves.
    I have color slide images taken by my father of Glacier Park 62 years ago, and, guess what, it looked pretty much the same then as it does now.
    As long as I’m pontificating on this subject, I would also like to add how tired I have grown of going to national parks and while attending a lecture or tour having to listen to the incessant mantra about how humans are destroying the environment and how the national parks are suffering because of it. Hence, I rarely attend these lectures now.

  38. Use the goathaunt.gov web cam
    They have the current temp at the ranger stations up.
    This hour there 34 F and that is at a low elevation.
    They also have the dates they will close some roads due to expected snow.
    Sept. 15th or so this year. When faced with facts they act.
    When the msm will lie them a path they take the lie path.
    Glacier Park has five or six web cams, when it snows you can see it.
    It is not a Mann made hockey stick.

  39. I must apologize to Michael Mann since it appears my getting in the car and driving to Glacier National Park for vacation has clearly been one contributing factor to his inability to enjoy getting on the plane and then driving (I don’t, for one second, believe he bicycled through the park) around Glacier National Park for his vacation.
    Ok, it was more than a few years ago that I went there, but Carbon is forever.

    • Let thy conscience be quieted. Carbon (at least the carbon you’re referring to here) is NOT forever. As CO2 it cycles continually from the atmosphere into and out of various natural ‘carbon sinks’. I’m sure there are other commenters who can quote the exact figure of the time it takes CO2 to cycle in/out of the atmosphere. It’s a matter of mere single or low double digit years. Maybe you’re punning ‘diamonds are forever’. Diamonds, of course, are a crystalline structure of pure carbon atoms and like any other atom are indestructible unless subjected to thermonuclear processes (or enough heat and pressure to nearly duplicate them). So the CO2 you emitted all those years ago is pushing up daisies or trees somewhere. That’s a GOOD thing!

    • Michael Mann does not bicycle. He has a wooden tricycle. With wooden wheels. (You can count the tree-rings on them.)

  40. NWS weather for Glacier Park area.
    OK, today, high of 60 F lower elevations.
    Tue, Wed. Thur. this week lows below freezing, snow with highs of 30 F.
    Mike just needs to work more with Gore he is only off a week or so.
    Had he waited he could have made a snowmann graph too.

  41. Kenny
    September 6, 2014 at 7:05 am
    Global Thermonuclear War? How about a nice game of chess? (j/k)
    ____________________________
    ***GGG***
    “The only winning move is not to play.”
    Thats what that abominable Mann and his bunch of deadheads have forgotten. They are trying to manipulate a self-regulating, well-working system because of their skewed ideas.

  42. Michael Mann is such a gaseous clown. Of course he knew what he was going to see in Glacier National Park, and pretending that receding glaciers there are a phenomenon of human generated “climate change” in the past few decades is simply dishonest. Those glaciers have been retreating since the mid-19th century, as discussed above. The Manniac would have done better to expend more fossil fuels to get himself to Glacier Bay, Alaska, where he could view the dramatic retreat of glaciers since…. sometime after 1794 but long before 1879.
    On John Muir’s visit there in 1879, he and his companions observed the dramatic changes since George Vancouver’s explorations of 1794:
    [John Muir 1879]

    “Glacier Bay is undoubtedly young as yet. Vancouver’s chart, made only a century ago, shows no trace of it, though found admirably faithful in general. It seems probable, therefore, that even then the entire bay was occupied by a glacier of which all those described above, great though they are, were only tributaries. Nearly as great a change has taken place in Sum Dum Bay since Vancouver’s visit, the main trunk glacier there having receded from eighteen to twenty five miles from the line marked on his chart. Charley, who was here when a boy, said that the place had so changed that he hardly recognized it, so many new islands had been born in the mean time and so much ice had vanished. As we have seen, this Icy Bay is being still farther extended by the recession of the glaciers. That this whole system of fiords and channels was added to the domain of the sea by glacial action is to my mind certain.”

    [John Muir 1879]
    changes from 1794 to 1916

    “Glacier Bay was first surveyed in detail in 1794 by a team from the H.M.S. Discovery, captained by George Vancouver. At the time the survey produced showed a mere indentation in the shoreline. That massive glacier was more than 4,000 feet thick in places, up to 20 miles wide, and extended more than 100 miles to the St. Elias mountain range.
    By 1879, however, naturalist John Muir discovered that the ice had retreated more than 30 miles forming an actual bay. By 1916, the Grand Pacific Glacier – the main glacier credited with carving the bay – had melted back 60 miles to the head of what is now Tarr Inlet.”

    For an example of Mannian method, there is this example of dishonesty by omission — no mention of Muir discussing the receding glaciers on our National Park Service’s page for John Muir. It is just about impossible to learn anything about John Muir’s 1879 visit and not know that he was so struck by the changes since Vancouver’s 1794 expedition. Yet, our National Park Service uses Muir without mention of the most dramatic aspect of his visit:
    no mention of John Muir’s 19th century observations of dramatic retreat of glaciers in Glacier Bay

  43. note: in my last paragraph “this example of dishonesty by omission” refers to the NPS page linked at the bottom of my comment

  44. Memo for Michael Mann: Glaciers melt during the summer and accumulate snow in the winter. That is just how the system works.

  45. Which is it, is Michael mann an incompetent scientist, a scumbag scientist or maybe just a scumbag.
    He knows the receding glaciers in Glacier National Park have little if anything to do with human activity (he can’t be that stupid). I think he is just a run of the mill regular scumbag.

  46. The Mann from UNCLE discovers SPECTRE melting glaciers?
    United Nations Climate Lying Extrapolators
    Skeptical People Enjoying Carbon, The Resultant Energy.

  47. News flash Mikey Mann, its worse than we thought. Global warming has caused your brain to evaporate. Its been shrinking for years, but now it is all gone.

  48. What I did on my summer vacation (2014) – a non-climatologist’s perspective
    Cruise on the Thames River in London. I told my young daughter it used to freeze during winters in the 17th century. It stopped freezing since the 19th century.
    Visited the Royal Observatory at Greenwich. One of the oldest observatories in the world where the Prime Meridian is located. The British invented the Greenwich Meridian Time (GMT) to accurately measure time to coordinate train schedules.
    Visited the Museum of Science and Industry at Manchester. This city was at the heart of the Industrial Revolution. It had the first public railroad in the world – the Liverpool-Manchester railroad. Automated textile manufacturing and precision machine tools were invented in this city.
    Visited the Museum of Natural History at Manchester University. Incredible dinosaur bones. They became extinct long before man walked on earth. Not all extinctions are due to man. The first stored-program computer was made in this University by Alan Turing et al.

  49. I know just how the great mann feels. I recently took a trip to northern New Hampshire and was shocked – shocked I tell you – to find that the glaciers on the presidential range have melted completely away. Completely!
    Not only that; some of the mountains in Coos county have eroded so much that they are now just hills. Some are now not even 2000ft. high. Something very serious is going on and it is far worse than we thought.

Comments are closed.