Status report on changes to WUWT, with user poll

changeAs readers know, I announced changes to WUWT’s format last Sunday, and the changes went into effect overnight from Sunday night to Monday morning. As is the case with any change, there will be some issues, some people won’t like it simply because it is change, and some will embrace it.  Below I’ll address the improvements and the things remaining to be fixed.

My goal was to bring WUWT into a more modern realm and address these issues:

  1. Scroll off – stories often disappeared down the page too quickly and didn’t get seen
  2. Style – WUWT still looked like a blog rather than the most read resource it has become
  3. Readability – The way it was presented didn’t lend itself to readability as well as it should
  4. Mobile compatibility – the mobile theme we used to have was terrible, we needed to make the experience better for tablet users and phone users
  5. Comment filtering – was problematic, too many comments were being held that shouldn’t be, some comments that should be held for inspection haven’t been
  6. Comment reading – there was a lot of room for improvement
  7. Comment SPAM – moderators were getting overwhelmed

What we’ve done and learned:


 

1. Scroll off – stories often disappeared down the page too quickly and didn’t get seen The new Expound theme format of providing “capsules” on the main page seems to have solved this nicely. I can report we are getting a consistent 40-50% increase in daily page views, which means more people are reading stories than they were before. I call that success. Also, the new format provides for “infinite scroll” on the main page, making it easier to find older stories. Just keep scrolling down.

2. Style – WUWT still looked like a blog rather than the most read resource it has become  – Besides the new theme format making WUWT more professionally styled from the get-go, I’ve spent since Sunday night making CSS tweaks to all sorts of visual style parameters, many of which were brought up in the previous thread. I could not have done this without the help of WUWT reader Jim Reekes, who offered help in that original thread. At this point, I think most of the major style, color, and formatting issues have been addressed. However, there may be some that can still be improved upon. I’ve tried to accomodate many requests, but I can’t please everyone. What we have now is what I consider the best strategy based on user input.

3. Readability – The way it was presented didn’t lend itself to readability as well as it should – Font size tweaks and color tweaks have made WUWT more readable, IMHO. Jim has helped be put the fonts into “em” mode in CSS, which helps them scale much better to various venues. Your mileage may vary. Bear in mind that for those who have font size issues, the zoom control of your browser using the CTRL and +  or CTRL and – key combinations is your best friend. BTW CTRL and 0 (zero) resets your zoom. Pressing CTRL and the scroll wheel on your mouse does the same thing,

4. Mobile compatibility – the mobile theme we used to have was terrible, we needed to make the experience better for tablet users and phone users–  From what I’ve seen myself on my own set of mobile devices, and the reports I’m getting from users, the new mobile device compatible theme is a win all around.

5. Comment filtering – was problematic, too many comments were being held that shouldn’t be, some comments that should be held for inspection haven’t been – I’ve spent several hours tweaking this, with the most recent change made this morning that caught a problem that caused a lot of comments to be held when they were not supposed to be. We’ll see how the new setup goes. For those suddenly have a comment in moderation that think that their comment is being held on purpose, bear in mind that this is algorithm and keyword based, and never perfect. Don’t take it personally. Some people who have been problematic, such as doing thread bombing with off-topic posts or otherwise making nuisances of themselves may still be held for moderation.

As before, if you need attention, leave a new comment with the full word “moderator” in it. Comments that use my name are also held, so that I see them in the firehose of comments we get daily.

6. Comment reading – there was a lot of room for improvement I think we’ve got this one sorted out. Early versions of the theme for comments weren’t very good, but I think we have a good balance of size, color and style now. Many people have reported they like the new 3D offset for blockquoted text. Thank Jim Reekes for that one.

In the past, we’ve had a lot of requests for threaded comments, and I tried it a couple of times, but didn’t like the way it flowed. Some readers didn’t either. Now, I’ve enabled threaded/nested comments again, and I think it works better with the new format. Both Climate Audit and Judith Curry’s sites use threaded comments, and while “me too” isn’t a reason, being able to reply to people directly below or to make a correction update directly below your own comments is.

As it stands now, pressing the small blue “Reply” link below a comment will pop up the comment form right there in place, no more scrolling to the bottom to post comments, though you can still do that.

TonyB writes on the original change thread:

I’ll give the ‘reply’ facility a go. Not sure how we will notice comments that are inserted days after the event. On the whole I prefer the linear format of WUWT over the nesting format of Climate Etc but let’s give it a fair chance.

If you want, you can be notified of new comments via email, simply by checking the box on the comment submission form where I highlighted in yellow:

WUWT_commentform

Some people don’t like threaded comments, and I get that. But let’s see how it goes with the new format. Some people worried that nested comments would allow “last word” derogatory comments to happen months later. That’s rubbish, we have tool in place to prevent such things from happening, though I’m not going to give details to what they are. Basically, we don’t have the problem now with regular linear comments, nested comments won’t make this non-problem worse.

NOTE: You can test comments before posting them on the WUWT “test” page.  Get them right by trial/error, then copy/paste them where you want them to be. There’s also help there too for making italics, bolds, blockquote, and other codes.

One thing you can do right now is to insert images, simply by putting in the image URL in the form http://someserver.com/images/graphic.jpg (.gif and .png files are also supported)  WordPress will automatically format and display the image in comments.

7. Comment SPAM – moderators were getting overwhelmed – I think we have this under control now, though spammers are always trying new things.


 

 Things that remain to be addressed:


1. There are a couple of missing elements, such as comment count, and “leave a comment” on main page entries  – I had hoped this was available to tweak in CSS; sadly, no. This feature is actually missing from the Expound theme. WordPress has a bug report into the developer, so we’ll see how that goes. Unless the developer fixes the theme, I can’t address this feature unless I move WUWT off of wordpress.com and onto private hosting. WordPress.com doesn’t allow us to tweak PHP code for security reasons.

For now, comment counts appear on the top of the story itself after you click to see it in full. In the meantime, for those that want to see which posts are getting the most traffic, can view the Top Posts & Pages on the right sidebar.

2. Navigation buttons within posts – some people lamented that the previous/next story buttons have disappeared – they haven’t! They simply moved. See screencap below. They are at the bottom of the story. Like with the comment count issue, I can’t move them unless I move my entire blog.

WUWT_story-navs1

3. Comment editing – a feature to allow editing of ones comments for a few minutes after posting – this is my most requested feature over the years, and wordpress.com has steadfastly refused to provide this feature even though I continually ask for it.  Again, I can’t implement this unless I move off wordpress.com or pay their $500/month “Enterprise” service…which I tried last year, and was a disaster in my view. It wasn’t worth the money and the comment editor they provided was lame.


 

And there may be others that need attention that have gotten lost in the shuffle, or haven’t been noticed yet.

While I can’t promise we can handle all requests, we’ll at least try.

Finally, I’d like your opinion on the changes in this poll.

 

 

Thanks to everyone for your patience through this upgrade, and thanks for being part of the WUWT community.

I’ll have another major announcement coming next week, a big one that will allow our community to make a difference in what Michael Mann calls “The Climate Wars” Stay tuned.

UPDATE:

Readers may recall in the original thread that I made quite a stink about the new WordPress “beep boop” editor, and even wrote a full post about why I thought it was a stunning failure. WordPress seemed oblivious, but I and many others continued to bombard them with emails, posts, phone calls, and anything we could do to tell them how bad this change was.

Today, all of the sudden, things were back to normal, and this appeared above the editor page:

wp-editor-posting experience

That “new and improved posting experience” aka the “beep boop” editor, is corp-speak for “we took this turkey out back and shot it in the head”.

Two thoughts:

1. Users win. Lesson to WordPress – trust your users.

2. Thank you WordPress for finally seeing the light.

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Latitude
August 27, 2014 11:31 am

nested threaded comments (whatever they are called) are going to have to be ignored by me…..I’m mostly time constrained, and don’t have time to start from the very beginning of comments, and read them all each time…to see if I’m repeating something. missing something that already been said, or missing an interesting conversation
The old way I could mark where I left off….and take it back up there again and not miss a thing
I’ll miss a lot with the replies this new way…..and don’t want to be repeating what’s already been said

Otter (ClimateOtter on Twitter)
Reply to  Latitude
August 27, 2014 11:43 am

It’s Deja Vu all over again!

Latitude
Reply to  Otter (ClimateOtter on Twitter)
August 27, 2014 1:29 pm

well I guess there is one plus to it……….I can call you a big doodie head……and no one will ever see it!
LOL

Reply to  Latitude
August 27, 2014 1:19 pm

I can only post when I reply to a post. I don’t understand why. Help.
This site is quite good because it tries to address all of the issues which are thought to or have a potential impact on the climate. All and all Anthony has done a good job.

ShrNfr
Reply to  Latitude
August 27, 2014 1:28 pm

Overall, however, I think that collecting thoughts on a particular aspect within a thread outweighs any inconvenience. Many times I have to hopscotch through the comments to get the gist of a conversation in which something is being debated, and frankly I am not sure that I am not missing some of it.
For my vote I give thanks to Mr. Watts for his work on the format and give it an overall thumbs up. That and a Charlie Card with tread on it gets you a ride on the Green Line in Boston.

rogerknights
Reply to  Latitude
August 27, 2014 4:59 pm

What’s needed is for the system to prominently highlight the new comments since your last visit.

Rainer Bensch
Reply to  rogerknights
August 28, 2014 12:53 am

Yes, like it was in Compuserve times.

TonyG
Reply to  Latitude
August 28, 2014 6:26 am

I have always used the “notify me of follow-up comments” option and it works the same with nested comments. I still get ALL comments on the post made after mine, so I can keep up with the discussion without a problem.

Editor
Reply to  TonyG
August 28, 2014 9:32 am

Yup, that’s exactly what I do, always have. I think the nesting is a huge step forward and allows for much better following of conversations.
I must confess, I like the new format. Well done boss.

August 27, 2014 11:33 am

Thank you Anthony.
I like the format so far.
No worries, mate!

Otter (ClimateOtter on Twitter)
August 27, 2014 11:44 am

Definitely liking this new setup, especially when it comes to researching older articles you have posted. Thanks!

Tom G(ologist)
August 27, 2014 11:45 am

WAYYYYY better than the former format. Thanks.

bobbyv
August 27, 2014 11:49 am

I find the font a bit dense, but like the layout.

Gene Selkov
Reply to  bobbyv
August 29, 2014 12:41 am

I like the layout, but the font is unreadable on my 1920×1280 screen. Too large, too dense, too cluttered. I know I can scale the page to address the first concern, but that makes the smaller fonts present on the page unreadable, and no amount of scaling will remove the serifs or increase line spacing. Reading is no longer effortless and the amount of effort it requires jumps my threshold of tolerance. I scan a few lines and bail out (knowing full well that I may be missing something important).

E Martin
August 27, 2014 11:50 am

Can’t wait for next week!

The other Ren
August 27, 2014 11:53 am

Much superior format in my opinion. Easier to read, right side bar just seems easier to browse and find stuff. Works well on my big monitor. Two thumbs up.

larrygeary
August 27, 2014 11:54 am

There seems to be a nesting limit to the comments. There was a comment, I replied, someone replied to me, and there was no way for me to reply to that comment without starting a new top-level comment.
“Many people have reported they like the new 3D offset for blockquoted text.”
I don’t like it, or the font it uses.
Over all, I like the improvements. I like the latest posts near the top, though it has kept me from scrolling down much to see even earlier posts I might have missed.

rogerknights
Reply to  larrygeary
August 27, 2014 5:04 pm

“There seems to be a nesting limit to the comments. There was a comment, I replied, someone replied to me, and there was no way for me to reply to that comment without starting a new top-level comment.”
The technique for handling that is to use the nearest Reply button upthread and use it. Your reply will inline, so you will have to quote what you are replying to unless it was the one just above yours.

Sweet Old Bob
August 27, 2014 11:54 am

Nothing can improve without change.Some people will always hate change,but so what!
Life goes on ,with or without them!

Mike McMillan
August 27, 2014 11:59 am

You might try reducing the indent on the nested comments. Deep threads tend to squash the last comments into a narrow column.

rogerknights
Reply to  Mike McMillan
August 27, 2014 5:07 pm

Not much of a problem here, because there are only three levels.

Nigel in Waterloo
August 27, 2014 11:59 am

Too much white space between comments, could be a little more compact without losing readability.

rogerknights
Reply to  Nigel in Waterloo
August 27, 2014 5:10 pm

The blank line above “Reply” could/should be dropped.

August 27, 2014 12:02 pm

A compromise on the threaded list is to display the “Reply” button only a short time (1-24 hours) after the comment is posted. This allows for immediate corrections, additions, errata to a comment, without a hydra of multi-day old threads. This is obviously a PHP programming issue, but I think one whose merit should be considered (if it hasn’t already).
Nested thread management is going to depend upon people finding a social custom that works well.

Paul Coppin
Reply to  Anthony Watts
August 28, 2014 4:31 am

WP might not be as accommodaating as it once was -but I’ve been successful in the past getting them to modify a stock template, particularly about white space control. If your needed changes would make sense to all template users, you might be able to get them to do the mods.

kadaka (KD Knoebel)
August 27, 2014 12:03 pm

2. Navigation buttons within posts – some people lamented that the previous/next story buttons have disappeared – they haven’t! They simply moved.
Nah, it was the top set that did disappear, the convenient ones. The other set right above the comments is still there.
The site does look very nice. Good job.

Martin C
Reply to  kadaka (KD Knoebel)
August 27, 2014 1:12 pm

I sure would like to have the ‘previous/next’ story link at the TOP of the Article be put back.
Having at the bottom is fine, but after reading an article, and comments, it’s so much easier to go the the next article by going to the top of the Page (scrolling up until it stops) rather than scrolling up, and looking for the ‘bottom’ of the article, just before the comments.

Martin C
Reply to  Martin C
August 27, 2014 1:14 pm

. .I should have also stated that I DO LIKE the new format. I like the ‘capsules’ of the articles at the top, then the rest below. The readability and font is fine to me . . .

SCheesman
Reply to  Martin C
August 27, 2014 4:20 pm

Let me second this request… with long articles you end up searching and scrolling forever to find the next linked story.

August 27, 2014 12:04 pm

It’s gorgeous. “Notify me of follow-up comments via email” is the best way to keep up with a thread. It eliminates the need to hover, lurk, frequently revisit, skulk, slink, creep, edge, worm, ghost, pad, or tiptoe around a thread you are following.
PS. Did you know that some sites allow you to search a user’s comment history? No, no reason why I bring that up. (: Ty to Jim Reekes.

Matthew R Marler
August 27, 2014 12:07 pm

I like the new format for its aesthetics, but I find the font harder to read.

Reply to  Matthew R Marler
August 27, 2014 1:06 pm

I’m with you. My company from another life spent several thousand dollars researching readability fonts. Helvetica style fonts like the name headers won hands down as easiest to read and a huge increase in understanding. But I guess it is what it is.

Richards in Vancouver
Reply to  Wayne Delbeke
August 27, 2014 1:47 pm

Tell your “company from another life” to re-run their data, specifically the demographic details of their responders. Best data shows a push: people who grew up with serifed fonts (like me) find them much easier to read, whereas those who learned from sans-serif (eg. Switzerland, the Nordic countries) prefer the sans. But the “tipping point” is this: sans lovers can adapt more easily to serif than the other way around.
Bottom line: Keep the Sans! (I want a tee shirt to that effect.)

KRM
Reply to  Matthew R Marler
August 27, 2014 2:44 pm

The readability of the font seems to vary depending on the device. I had no problem on my tablet or laptop, but it becomes very irregular and unpleasant to read on my 1920 x 1080 wide screen.

Matthew R Marler
Reply to  KRM
August 27, 2014 3:23 pm

KRM, that might be my problem. I guessed when I posted that my “problem” would not be an actual problem unless shared by many people.

DanMet'al
August 27, 2014 12:08 pm

Of course, the greatest strength of your WUWT blog is the quality of the blog posts (articles) and the added benefit of the many enlightening comments. That said, the new WUWT format is a significant improvement that showcases better the information and commentary provided by WUWT.
Dan

David, UK
August 27, 2014 12:11 pm

Thanks, Anthony. To be a bit picky, I would have liked a voting option of “like” in addition to “love” or “hate” but that said, I really do like it. Just wish ‘double-tap’ worked on smart devices to zoom in on paragraphs. Of course we can zoom with touch/swipe gestures, but I do like to be able to just double-tap to get instant fullscreen view of an article. Thumbs up though!

latecommer2014
Reply to  David, UK
August 27, 2014 12:37 pm

Hi David…..I bought an iPad because it does do the double tap

Paul Coppin
Reply to  latecommer2014
August 28, 2014 4:34 am

My Android tablet does the double tap… This site looks ok on my tablet, but the twenty-ten did too…

Frodo
August 27, 2014 12:15 pm

This is a fantastic site. With all the media and politicians they carry around in their pockets like so many nickels and dimes, the CAGW crowd is trying to get away with a horrible fraud, with associated grave costs to humanity. Anthony and some other brave souls are doing a great job shedding light on all the deception and lies. That’s the main thing, getting the truth out – everything else is secondary. I like the site, and even if some people don’t think it’s perfect, you should get at least a 30 year grace period before anyone has the right to criticize it.
Seriously, though – God bless you, Anthony, and all that you and the other contributors to this site, do.

August 27, 2014 12:19 pm

Many good features of the change. I think 3D blockquotes are gimmicky; they make the quote stand out, but probably more than is wanted, and if several they dominate the look of a page. I’m a big fan of color contrast, and it’s good now.

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Nick Stokes
August 27, 2014 8:26 pm

Bueno!

August 27, 2014 12:20 pm

Some folks almost always struggle with change but then, once they “get used to it”, they wouldn’t have it any other way.
I am adjusting and am feeling positive amidst this ” climate of change”.

August 27, 2014 12:21 pm

The participation in “like” features drops exponentially after the first three comments. There are hardly any votes near the bottom of the thread. It is worthless.

Reply to  Anthony Watts
August 27, 2014 12:25 pm

What I am getting at is that I dislike “like.” Thank you.

Reply to  Anthony Watts
August 27, 2014 1:30 pm

Okay, I see – I should have directed my response to the commenter who wants the “like” feature. I can use the new Reply button to do that.
Old habits, and all that. Don’t expect too much of me at first. T.y.

August 27, 2014 12:25 pm

Congratulations!
You work hard, you get good results (most of the time).
WUWT has met and vanquished another webmaster’s challenge.

Richard G
August 27, 2014 12:25 pm

The font and readability issues in my opinion have been resolved. Thank you Anthony, Jim and everyone who contributed. I’m using 150% zoom setting on my desktop and it fills the screen perfectly without cutting anything off.

kenw
August 27, 2014 12:29 pm

I like it.

TRM
August 27, 2014 12:29 pm

Good work Mr Watts. If you ever get tired of this climate / weather thing you could cut it as a sysadmin easily. My only request would be to have logins via Google authentication but it’s not a big issue for me.
Cheers

NZ Willy
August 27, 2014 12:32 pm

The right-hand column (with all the links etc) takes up too much of the screen, I’d suggest making it a little narrower with a smaller font.

LeeHarvey
August 27, 2014 12:33 pm

While you’ve got the developer on the line to talk about comment counts…
You know those little tags on the main page thumbnails that show the tags associated with the article? Isn’t there a way to make the text in those tags hyperlinked to the appropriate tag category?

LeeHarvey
Reply to  LeeHarvey
August 27, 2014 12:34 pm

Wait, never mind. I see that’s been corrected since yesterday.
Bang up job!

August 27, 2014 12:37 pm

I am on the fence at this point. If the comment count was visible on the review pages I would have been in the Love it category.
Keep at it! Waiting for next week. BTW, any update on the status of the paper?

August 27, 2014 12:38 pm

I think it’s great. The darker font helps when I’m outside on my iPad. [BTW, what is the font?]
I saw a blue background for comments about three hours ago. Did that disappear? I loved it. Thought it was wonderful with the Jim Reekes white blockquote: again, very tablet friendly.

Reply to  policycritic
August 27, 2014 1:08 pm

I agree with you on the blue background. Not sure why it was there but I did feel it helped the readability of this font.

Chris4692
Reply to  Wayne Delbeke
August 27, 2014 2:01 pm

I thought the blue helped separate the comments while not being distracting.

Tonyb
August 27, 2014 12:42 pm

You have responded to various criticisms such as font type and size and overall it looks far better than the old version which now seems dated, although it didn’t at the time ( a few days ago!)
Let’s wait and see how the nesting works.
Tonyb

Oldseadog
August 27, 2014 12:43 pm

Every change has good and bad but this is fine by me. If I can work it anyone can.
One thing that would be good for me, the original technodinosaur, would be a “forward” button at the bottom of each story so that I could forward it by e-mail to someone else.
I see that my spellchecker STILL doesn’t like the word “technodinosaur”.
Or maybe I’m not spelling it the N. American way.

greymouser70
Reply to  Oldseadog
August 28, 2014 3:43 am

Oldseadog: You can fix that by right clicking on the word with the squiggly red line under and selecting and to dictionary. That way if you ever type it again you computer recognizes it as a proper word.

greymouser70
Reply to  greymouser70
August 28, 2014 3:44 am

That should … add to….

Bloke down the pub
August 27, 2014 12:45 pm

Being an imperfect human being, I recognise the temptation to use the reply button to get a post closer to the top of the list than would otherwise be possible. So far I have resisted the temptation.

GogogoStopSTOP
August 27, 2014 12:46 pm

Anthony, I love the new look & function. Note that on your banner, “The world’s most viewed site on global warming and climate change.” The “and climate change” gets lost in the brightness of the aurora borealis.
Just prophetic, or a subtle dig, LOL.

Oldseadog
August 27, 2014 12:47 pm

TRM:
I wouldn’t have anything to do with Google.

Paul Westhaver
Reply to  Oldseadog
August 27, 2014 1:43 pm

Testing reply, but me too. Start page, duck duck go.. etc.

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Oldseadog
August 27, 2014 8:30 pm

Agree.

Steve in Seattle
August 27, 2014 12:53 pm

Yep, its REALLY good, I like the main page TOP, with the stories cluster, and font is easier to read. Thanks.

Vincent
August 27, 2014 12:55 pm

I didn’t have any gripes about the previous format, but the new one is great. No complaints and thanks for your effort.

Mike Singleton
August 27, 2014 12:56 pm

Like it all, especially the font change.

Victoria
August 27, 2014 12:57 pm

I love this site Anthony. And most of those who comment as well. I’m no scientist and some of the details discussed here can be a little above my comprehension but its good to aim high. Thanks for helping bring a little sanity to this crazy world.

Amatør1
August 27, 2014 1:00 pm

The font puts me off, it hurts. I will not scroll up and down to look for, new nested comments. Maybe I’ll just go somewhere else.

Warren in Minnesota
August 27, 2014 1:04 pm

I would like to see the author of each story shown on the home page. That is now missing. Was the story written by Anthony or someone else?

Reply to  Warren in Minnesota
August 28, 2014 6:43 am

I agree with Warren. You’ve really lost something very valuable by not showing the author of each story on the home page. It results in a loss of identity and uniqueness. We want to see your name particularly. It’s a matter of branding and product differentiation for sure, but I just miss it. Without those names, you look more common and less personal. Bring it back!
As the to other changes – Well done, indeed.

Scott
August 27, 2014 1:13 pm

The one change that is affecting me is that the links on pages no longer change color when viewed or clicked through. I also miss the forward one article and back one article buttons.
Otherwise great change. Thanks for all the work you guys put into this site. I have been a daily reader for a couple years now.

earwig42
August 27, 2014 1:16 pm

The opening page seems too busy for me but the success of the new main means I’m in the minority. I can live with that. Love the nesting of replies! I agree with NZ Willy, the right hand column should be smaller.
All-in-all the changes are a big plus. Thanks.

OK S.
August 27, 2014 1:17 pm

I voted “unsure” but I’m really not. Everything is OK except for nested replies. I’ll read them the first time through, but not later. This site simply has too many comments to have to reread them all just to find a new one.

William Mason
August 27, 2014 1:20 pm

I like the new format on the comments. When someone is replying to another post I don’t have to mark where I am at and scroll way back up to see which one they are referring to. Now it is right there which make more sense to me. Good job on the remodeling.
Cheers,
William

August 27, 2014 1:21 pm

Never mind I see you can post at the end. Silly me. Thanks.

Gary
August 27, 2014 1:21 pm

Looks great, Anthony. And btw you’re approaching 200 million views!

M Courtney
August 27, 2014 1:22 pm

The style changes are nice. But style is merely superficial. It does look more professional but the substance was always good anyway.
The nested comments is the big change.
And I don’t like the way that debates are closed in on themselves instead of cross-fertilising.
So I voted “not sure yet”.

DaveW
Reply to  M Courtney
August 27, 2014 10:01 pm

I like the way they are nested so I can disagree with you directly and not 50 comments down the page.

Paul Coppin
Reply to  DaveW
August 28, 2014 4:43 am

However, with linear commenting, I can go quickly go to one place to find the “new business”, and my memory hasn’t failed enough yet to not remember what I read 50 comments above. With nesting, I feel like I’m circling a dozen drains after the first bunch of replied comments – Way. Too. Slow. to process new info.(Is it possible to up the font style in the comment posting blocks -really have to squint to read what I’m posting which is going to add more typos…:)

John V. Wright
August 27, 2014 1:26 pm

Anthony, we appreciate all your efforts and expertise here in the UK. The new format is fine. In a couple of months those who are not finding it so easy to adjust will have adapted. More power to your elbow and to your dedicated mods.

DD More
August 27, 2014 1:27 pm

Anthony, like the new font and color bars. Would it be possible to have a ‘view sort button’ with nesting as basic and by posting / comment number to allow reading as posted?

August 27, 2014 1:28 pm

Am I the only one who noticed an almost double loading time compared to the old design?
Seems that something preloads 3-4 times on a white page before the content becomes visible.

Reply to  Anthony Watts
August 27, 2014 3:57 pm

Thanks Anthony for reply.
I just recorded the status bar of my FireFox 31 with HyperCam to see what is loaded before the content appears.
In this order after invoking this article as an example:
1. waiting for wattsupwiththat.com… (about 1.5 sec.)
2. transfer data from wattsupwiththat.com… (about 1 sec.)
3. connected to http://www.osdpd.noaa.com... (about 1 sec)
4. waiting for wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com… (about 1.5 sec.)
5. read widgets.wp.com (about 1 sec.)
6. waiting for public-api.wordpress.com… (about 1.5 sec.)
7. read s0.wp.com… (about 0.5 sec)
8 about 1.5 sec. preparation pause before content appears.
Maybe this long loading time occures because I’m in Germany, but it has never ever been so long before.
With the old design, I had about 3 sec. for the whole page being readily loaded.

Reply to  Anthony Watts
August 27, 2014 4:03 pm

There is something to true about that longer loading time and blank screen. I’m using IE 11, Win 7 (but a semi-public wifi) at the moment. It’s maybe a little longer, not double, and It is no deal breaker. Auto load of images, can be a factor. But it is worth monitoring the load time stats.

Reply to  Anthony Watts
August 27, 2014 4:12 pm

Can’t imagine this.
I have 50 MB VDSL network with fixed IP. Browsercache was cleared before.
However, this all repeats with each change of a page (maybe WP mistakenly has a no-cache meta tag set?).
I understand that you can’t do anything much here.
I’ll keep an eye on it. 😉
Thanks for your really great efforts for this excellent site!
Peter

August 27, 2014 1:41 pm

I will add this and that is I really like and appreciate this site.

Paul Westhaver
August 27, 2014 1:41 pm

Banner – WUWT -love it…..not a rainbow and that is good. Slimmer, less real estate.
4 columns set up – I don’t care although I tend to scan articles up and down and may miss one… OK though.
Commenting – testing now… If you can see this is is working for me using Opera today. Commenting is a main attraction to your site.
Styling – looks nice and “professional” but I don’t care.
Images with articles – I am visual and respond well to image cues.
Looks like a lot of work right here doing this.
Nice Job.

Paul Westhaver
Reply to  Paul Westhaver
August 27, 2014 1:46 pm

Self reply on Commenting… works fine for me with Opera. I think I will like the nested context replies… It will be harder for trolls to disrupt .

Otter (ClimateOtter on Twitter)
Reply to  Paul Westhaver
August 27, 2014 3:23 pm

Which Opera, The Magic Flute?

August 27, 2014 1:46 pm

All in all, I think this format change is a move into the new century. I think it is fine — and the few missing bits seem to be a Word Press thing anyway.
Well done.

ossqss
August 27, 2014 1:50 pm

Works and looks great on my mobile devices and PC. Great work!
Now if I can only find a mobile browser with a vertical scroll bar…….

Jimbo
August 27, 2014 1:52 pm

Anthony,
Just one point. Bolded quoted parts of text don’t come out well on my latest version of Firefox, but is OK on Explorer. What to do?

PhilipPeake
August 27, 2014 1:53 pm

For threaded comments: Some indication that what you are looking at is pat of a thread, and not a top-level comment would be useful.

DavidG
August 27, 2014 1:53 pm

I voted love it after two days. Thanks for
hard work.

August 27, 2014 1:57 pm

Latitude
August 27, 2014 at 11:31 am
nested threaded comments (whatever they are called) are going to have to be ignored by me…
*
I’m with Latitude on this. The only way I get to enjoy Judith Curry’s full dialogue in comments, or Jo Nova’s, is if I leave reading their articles until it is old news and most of the comments are in. By then, often as not, I don’t get back to it at all because – guess what? – it’s old news.
With WUWT, I got everything and never missed a comment. No more. Yes, I could be emailed 50 times or a 100 for each thread to tell me of each new comment is in, but I won’t bother. I’d be inundated. That will also cut down my visits here as there is no point checking for comments hidden in the main body of the thread and only finding the handful added to the end.
That means, instead of coming in multiple times a day, I’m better off visiting once a week, just so there is something to read in the old stuff. As for any new stuff, basically, I’ll have to read your headlines and move on. Sorry, Anthony, it wouldn’t matter if you only got 20 comments per thread, but you get hundreds and you’re making it hard work for your readers who want to keep up with the dialogue. I would have to comb through each thread multiple times every day, re-reading all the comments to find which are the new ones, which alone would take hours. All I had to do before was refresh the page.

Reply to  A.D. Everard
August 27, 2014 2:15 pm

The email updates are very tidy. You do not receive 50 to 100 emails. The new comments all appear in same email (which has the same title as the post), in your inbox.
It is hard to remember to check the box to get the emails updates, and also, you have to make a comment in order to get the comments in your email. If you don’t have anything much to contribute, you have to follow the thread without emails.
Some of the research and comments are then in your email history for later reference because you have copies. Or you can delete the thread. So that is how it works.
You can still follow the link in the email back to WUWT, and this will give WUWT back some of the web traffic it might have missed from lurking. I have wondered if a drop in hits would occur if more people used the neat email update feature. I don’t have an answer for that.

M Courtney
Reply to  Zeke
August 27, 2014 3:31 pm

But that pulls you into commenting.
I have very little to say but can understand the debate. I need discouragement from contaminating the debate with my views – except on the subject of my views, of course. But should be welcomed to lurk.
The design changes are great. It looks good.
But nesting comments will change the nature of the resource, Not a good change, in my opinion.

Reply to  Zeke
August 27, 2014 4:47 pm

Thanks, Zeke. Just to clarify, are you saying the comments themselves will be emailed, not just notification? That might be okay. It’s the searching through and rereading (again and again) the comments I’ve already seen that I’m against. To me, missing half (or more) of the dialogue meant losing the community, which is what I come here for.
I love the rest of the changes – just not this. I’ll try it. 🙂

Reply to  Zeke
August 27, 2014 4:49 pm

Hi M. Courtney. Maybe we can post simply saying, “Posting to get emailed comments.” I’m willing, if it works that way. If notification is simply notification, then it doesn’t help.

Reply to  Zeke
August 27, 2014 6:12 pm

@ADEverard, with the new format, you receive the full text of each new comment, whether it is upstream or most recent. If the comment is a reply to another, it tells you that. It is a good feature.

Reply to  A.D. Everard
August 27, 2014 9:50 pm

Hi Zeke – well, I’ve tried it now. It does give each comment, but not neatly together. I’ve received 51 emails since I last posted here (some hours now, but just the one thread). So I’ll need to think about that some more. At least I get the comments, though, and in the right order.

Reply to  A.D. Everard
August 28, 2014 9:45 am

Interesting. Perhaps I get all comments in one email because I have a WordPress account.

Reply to  A.D. Everard
August 28, 2014 12:19 pm

It’s not that, I have a WordPress account, too. Clearly, there’s some setting somewhere I don’t know about. I rather liked the idea of all comments neatly packaged. 🙂

Reply to  A.D. Everard
August 30, 2014 1:44 pm

I’m sorry we couldn’t get you set up with that.
I also “follow” WUWT but I don’t know if that really helps.

Reply to  A.D. Everard
August 31, 2014 5:25 pm

Me, too. 🙂

Reply to  A.D. Everard
August 31, 2014 9:14 pm

Zeke, I may have found it! At the bottom of each email is a subscriptions option link. From there, not in settings, but in comments, there’s a delivery frequency dropdown tag. Mine was set for “immediately”, but there is also “daily” and “weekly”. So I shall try one of those.
I’m writing this, one to click the “notify me” box again, but also to thank you. If you had not mentioned it, I would not have known the option was there. I’ll let you know how it goes. Cheers! 🙂

Reply to  A.D. Everard
August 31, 2014 9:17 pm

Sorry, under “sites” (not “comments”).

Reply to  A.D. Everard
September 1, 2014 11:05 am

“Watts Up With That? You get weekly post and instant comment emails for this blog Edit
Send new posts by email:
Instantly
Daily
Weekly
Off
Send new comments by email:
On
Off

Thanks ADEverard. Look, I found this setting also sends you all the comments. I just tested it and it works. (This is under the “Edit Blogs I Follow” section of your wordpress account.) It is waaayyy too much for WUWT but it might be fun for a less busy site. It sends one email per post, all comments included.
FYI, my new posts by email from WUWT is set for Weekly.

Reply to  A.D. Everard
September 1, 2014 3:18 pm

Thank you so much, Zeke, you’ve helped a lot. 😀

Fly-on-the-wall
August 27, 2014 2:12 pm

The new format is excellent. To me it looks more professional and more readable.
Onwards and upwards is my impression.

Doug
August 27, 2014 2:15 pm

This is one of my favorite sites, if not the top, certainly in the top 2 :).
Is there any ways to control the foreground text color in the comments?
Reason I ask is that most of the wp sites appear to have the normal comment text darkness at ~75% or less, i.e., grey and starting to fade into the background. The peepers aren’t what they used to be here.
Or is there some setting in my browser (firefox) that I have overlooked?
OTH, typing this in the Reply box appears as normal black on white just fine.

Doug
Reply to  Anthony Watts
August 27, 2014 3:09 pm

Thanks, a little bit :). If I had my druthers, one more notch please.

rogerknights
Reply to  Anthony Watts
August 27, 2014 5:32 pm

Yes, please darken it another notch (or two)!!! I dislike the gray look so much it’s almost outweighed all the other positive changes. Who’ll object if it’s darker??

Gunga Din
August 27, 2014 2:16 pm

If you want, you can be notified of new comments via email, simply by checking the box on the comment submission form where I highlighted in yellow:

====================================================================
Also, holding down the CTRL key and hitting the F key will bring up (somewhere on your browser) a “Find in page” line. Type in the word or phrase (your name?) you are looking for and you can then scroll down or up to see replies. (But you will still need to open the post in question.)
Regarding the poll, I said “unsure” because love it or hate it didn’t reflect my opinion.
My opinion would be more along the lines of, “If it makes it easier and works for you, I’ll get used to it.”
Thanks for having this blog at all!

August 27, 2014 2:16 pm

I like the new format. The only suggestion would be to change the color of hotlinks when they are clicked, so it’s easy to tell what has already been read. Sometimes the same link is in another comment, and a color change would show the reader they have already seen it.
Otherwise, it’s a big improvement. Thanks for all the effort!

dp
August 27, 2014 2:21 pm

I like the theme so much I installed it on one my my self-hosted blogs this morning. I also tweaked it quite a bit but I’m too busy right now to fiddle the PHP code but plan to do so later. The documentation is pretty weak but the visual impact is excellent. Like most WP themes a certain amount of reverse engineering is needed. We need an Expound theme co-op for these optimizations. I’m going to post a theme mod page to both document and share what I’ve done else I’ll forget in 3 months when the next WP upgrade comes along.

Richards in Vancouver
August 27, 2014 2:24 pm

Anthony, from my viewpoint it’s all good. This comes from a frequent visitor (at least once a day) who was entirely at home with the old setup.
I used the nested feature above to reply to someone who prefers sans fonts. I can repeat here: Keep the serifs! Much easier for me (it’s a demographic thing), and the sans-lovers are notable (and to be commended) for their relative ease of adaptation.
Hope this makes life easier for you and your mods. In your honour I might paint my screen white.

Patrick Pimblett
Reply to  Richards in Vancouver
August 27, 2014 4:12 pm

Anthony, Thank You, I tell you 3 times. I am a reader, not a commenter, I came here in 2008 or 2009 looking for info on Stevenson screens, had fun with the Surface Stations pages, and I have been here daily since. I will repaint something white for you also. I was here Saturday morning when you hit 100,00,000 page views, I hope I can do it again this Saturday. Break a leg next week, I can’t wait.

rogerknights
Reply to  Richards in Vancouver
August 27, 2014 5:36 pm

I like the serifs too. A couple of days ago they were back, but only for a few hours.

PiperPaul
August 27, 2014 2:31 pm

Some sites offer the option of Nested or Flat for comments (IMDB for example), so you can flip between the two views. Don’t know if WordPress can do this, though.

u.k.(us)
August 27, 2014 2:31 pm

The recent font changes seem to work well.
Some of the commenters names used to be live links…..is this no more ?

rogerknights
Reply to  u.k.(us)
August 27, 2014 5:39 pm

They’re still live links, but you have to hover over them to detect which they are. This should be fixed.

Michael Larkin
August 27, 2014 2:34 pm

The main thing that concerned me was the font readability. It is now much improved, so many thanks for that. I think it would be better still if it was the same font as appears in comment boxes prior to posting, but nonetheless, it is definitely no longer off-putting.
My overall verdict at this point is that the changes have been worthwhile and successful; as you say, Anthony, let’s see how the nesting works out. I’m used to it on Judith and Jo’s blogs, so it’ll probably work here so long as it doesn’t go too deep.
We’re lucky to have this WUWT resource, Anthony, and a responsive blog owner like yourself. You put in enormous time and effort and are doing not only your regular readers, but the whole world, a great service by having the blog at all. Hence it would be churlish to niggle about minor things one might not think perfect: As you say, you can’t possibly please everyone, but to me it looks like you’ve made some excellent choices and achieved a near-optimal result.

Adam
August 27, 2014 2:46 pm

Fantastic changes Anthony. The website looks impressive and the content is the best there is on this subject. Thanks for implementing threaded comments too. Some people don’t like them but when you read the old linear comments you can see that there are threads (people will copy and paste the comment they are replying to) in there so it makes sense to formalise this.

Truthseeker
August 27, 2014 2:48 pm

Your efforts in this area have been more than justified as you have done the difficult task of making something that was very good even better.
I do like the reply feature as it allows specific conversations to be followed easier. The best blog for comment layout is Jo Nova where the common html tags are available at the top of the comment box and there is a “preview” button. The combination of these things prevent the vast majority of posting errors. Also she has green and red thumbs. These are great for people to express a “drive-by” opinion quickly and easily. Having only a “Like” button is the progressive version – you are only allowed to like other people and if you “dislike” then you must be a bad person.

rogerknights
Reply to  Truthseeker
August 27, 2014 5:42 pm

Like!

FrankKarr
August 27, 2014 2:58 pm

The new format is excellent Anthony. Now replies (if made use of) are bundled together rather than scattered willy-nilly. I am in awe how you keep up the pace of this blog. Best regards.

H.R.
August 27, 2014 3:04 pm

As a long-time reader and fairly regular commenter…
I really, really, really, really (did I remember to mention ‘really’?) like all the changes…
…except the in-line replies. If you are checking in on article from time to time because it has generated a lot of comments, you always have to start over at the top to look for new in-line replies. Without the in-line comments, just scroll down to where you left off and keep going. And if there has been an added in-line reply from a moderator or the author of the article, it’s easy to catch as you’re scrolling down to where you left off.
All the other changes have been aces. They are genuine improvements in my book. I like it!

Lil Fella from OZ
August 27, 2014 3:28 pm

Top job! Well done, Anthony.

John M
August 27, 2014 3:33 pm

I like most of the changes, but not a fan of nesting. We’ll see how it goes. I think the activity at Judith Curry’s site has soured be on nesting, where a few diehards waste everyone’s time replying to each other.
I haven’t seen it here yet, maybe because you have a lot more unique (in every sense of the word!) commenters. Also, you have so many new posts that folks don’t end up in the same comment thread for days and days.
And last, really appreciate all your effort and how responsive you are to your readers.

Randy
August 27, 2014 3:59 pm

Looks great to me. If more people are reading key posts, it is a good thing.

Climate Heritic
August 27, 2014 4:02 pm

I like the current format. However two things that I consider need looking at are.
1) Too much WHITE SPACE, it could do with a little less. The white space does make a difference in reading especially the clarity of what is being read. However too me its just a little too much. That is, the white space is overpowering the rest of the format.
2a) I prefer threaded comments, as one is able to follow a conversation on a given point. The problem with nested comments is when they go too deep and the text becomes squashed vertically (maybe the ctrl + wheel might compensate for this). This might be a problem that can be visited, I believe this issue has come up before.
2b) Is it possible for users to alternate between nested and non nested comments, themselves?
Regards
Climate Heritic
PS Anthony, really appreciate all your effort that you have done in exposing the real truth behind the climate.

Brute
August 27, 2014 4:12 pm

For what is worth, the font family change is a problem for me too. Extra ink to draw each character means less visibility and less readability. Compare the main text font with the quote text font. The second is far superior in terms of clarity.

Latitude
August 27, 2014 4:14 pm

A.D. Everard
August 27, 2014 at 1:57 pm
Latitude
August 27, 2014 at 11:31 am
nested threaded comments (whatever they are called) are going to have to be ignored by me…
*
I’m with Latitude on this. The only way I get to enjoy Judith Curry’s full dialogue in comments, or Jo Nova’s, is if I leave reading their articles until it is old news and most of the comments are in. By then, often as not, I don’t get back to it at all because – guess what? – it’s old news.
With WUWT, I got everything and never missed a comment. No more. Yes, I could be emailed 50 times or a 100 for each thread to tell me of each new comment is in, but I won’t bother. I’d be inundated. That will also cut down my visits here as there is no point checking for comments hidden in the main body of the thread and only finding the handful added to the end.
That means, instead of coming in multiple times a day, I’m better off visiting once a week, just so there is something to read in the old stuff. As for any new stuff, basically, I’ll have to read your headlines and move on. Sorry, Anthony, it wouldn’t matter if you only got 20 comments per thread, but you get hundreds and you’re making it hard work for your readers who want to keep up with the dialogue. I would have to comb through each thread multiple times every day, re-reading all the comments to find which are the new ones, which alone would take hours. All I had to do before was refresh the page.
====
Thanks, you said it much better….
Exactly what is wrong, or time consuming about replying to someone this way? copy..paste..and answer

Streetcred
August 27, 2014 4:27 pm

Comment filtering – was problematic, too many comments were being held that should be, some comments that should be held for inspection haven’t been

Are you sure? 😉

Streetcred
Reply to  Streetcred
August 27, 2014 11:29 pm

I love the new blog format. Only suggestion is that the above quote needs to be changed at source …

August 27, 2014 4:30 pm

I like the new theme, except I have a few comments:
1. I don’t like the font. It is too big. It looks blocky and clunky.
2. I don’t like the new header image.
3. The summary boxes for the top 5 posts don’t seem to work properly. They clump all the text together in one big sentence, losing line breaks and formatting from the actual past.

Editor
Reply to  Jarryd Beck
August 27, 2014 5:08 pm

I think 3. was a problem in the 2010 theme too.

Steve P
August 27, 2014 4:33 pm

I voted “unsure” mostly because I dislike the appearance of the block quotes, especially the font.

Clunky & Horsey

Also, I could be mistaken, but It seems the previous format had a slightly narrower column width that worked well for rapid speed reading through all comments because of less side-to-side eyeball motion, but perhaps that’s just my own idiosyncrasy.
Finally, I’ve decided I prefer the linear format as opposed to in-line replies.
All in all, it’s a nice makeover, and a lot of work, which I recognize and certainly appreciate, especially the ability to add graphics & images to a comment.

Steve P
Reply to  Steve P
August 28, 2014 8:32 am

Please see my additional comment, below, at August 28, 2014 at 8:30 am

Chip Javert
August 27, 2014 4:36 pm

I like the new all-articles “landing page”, and individual article formats, especially indented comments (who knew?). I know fiddling with colors and fonts is laborious and (almost) thankless work. I also appreciate the scalability issues that come with increased volume. The reader community needs to understand the new admin tools are necessary to maintain quality (not to mention, give you time to eat & sleep).
However, the content of WUWT is so rich that at some point, I simply focus on accessibility and readability. Your recent efforts do a good job of maintaining this site as the “gold standard”.

August 27, 2014 4:42 pm

Looks nice, no real problems so far. But I’m a novice.

Theo Goodwin
August 27, 2014 4:47 pm

Nested comments encourage those who are suffering from testerone poisoning. Please, not here. WUWT commenters should be writing substantial paragraphs addressed to a broad audience. Most of them have done that for years. That is a major reason that WUWT is the best there is.

Theo Goodwin
Reply to  Theo Goodwin
August 27, 2014 4:48 pm

Excuse me, testosterone poisoning.

davidmhoffer
August 27, 2014 5:03 pm

Didn’t read all the comments, so apologies if these things have already been said.
2. Navigation buttons within posts – some people lamented that the previous/next story buttons have disappeared – they haven’t! They simply moved.
True, but I have to scroll through the post to find them. When one is trying to quickly move to the next story, the link at the top was dead simple to find because all you had to do was skip to the very top. Now the links are buried somewhere between the top of the article and the bottom of the comments. Sure, if I’m reading the article, they stand out. But if I’ve skimmed a couple of paragraph and have decided I’m not interested and want to move on, finding the link isn’t simple or quick like it was before. It may be a small thing, but I find this rather annoying.
replies/nesting
There are multiple reasons why I detest this feature, even though I understand why some people like it. But my biggest issue is that I tend to read to the bottom of a thread, and a few hours later come back and refresh the window to what new comments there are. Since “replies” show up as new comments, the window will refresh at the first “reply” that I have not yet seen, which may be at the beginning of the thread, or somewhere in the middle, etc. Problem being that this leaves me scrolling from THAT comment, through all the stuff I have already seen, to try and find the stuff I haven’t. It is one thing to read the replies that already exist, quite another to return to a thread and try and make sense of what is new and what isn’t.
over all
I like the changes, and for every point above that reads as a complaint, please accept 10,000 thank yous for all you have done and continue to do.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
August 27, 2014 7:30 pm

But my biggest issue is that I tend to read to the bottom of a thread, and a few hours later come back and refresh the window to what new comments there are.

Try clicking on the date and time of the last comment you read.
Then, when you refresh, you will remain on that comment number. Everything after it will appear for you.

Reply to  Zeke
August 27, 2014 8:14 pm

(Of course, you can’t do that today, because all of the comment links are misdirecting to other comments. But that happens sometimes here. Today, when you click on a link in Recent Comments, you must scroll down to find that comment.)

richardscourtney
Reply to  davidmhoffer
August 29, 2014 1:35 am

davidmhoffer
I agree completely with your post.
I especially agree with your dislike of “nesting”. It destroys ability to follow a thread and makes it certain that recent comments will be missed in long threads.
One can always look for specific people. For example, if I were at a ‘solar’ thread then I would search for comments by Lief, but there may be a new or occasional commenter of merit (e.g. Spencer and Pielke occasionally post to WUWT threads) and I cannot know to search for his comment.
In summation, I think the new WUWT format is a great improvement but the adoption of ‘nested’ comments is a mistake.
Richard

Editor
August 27, 2014 5:05 pm

Anthony, I voted “Love it!” even though I wanted a choice like “It’s a nice improvement, warts and all.”
I’m not surprised that almost every little thing has people who really like it or couldn’t care less, I’ve seen that in other venues.
I’m a bit surprised at how many people miss the comment count, but given that’s usually a good indication of the interest in the topic, I guess a lot of people have figured that out. Big wart, I hope the theme gets that added. I’ll work on getting that into my Guide to WUWT and maybe move the recent summary to the top of the page. Maybe tonight, more likely this weekend, I don’t have other plans.
Kudos to Jim Reekes. I can’t tell exactly what he did and what you did, but I suspect he did a heck of a lot more than I could have done even if I had time. One of these years I’ll learn CSS and Javascript.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Ric Werme
August 28, 2014 4:59 am

I’m a bit surprised at how many people miss the comment count, but given that’s usually a good indication of the interest in the topic

================================================================
I used it not so much to gauge interest but to see if there are any new comments in a post that caught my eye. That’s why I’d like to see, in addition to the comment count and if it can be done in WordPress, the date and time of the last comment.
I know I could check the notify me via email box but I already get too much email.

August 27, 2014 5:10 pm

Is there a reason the font keeps changing? I wasn’t fond of the new font but realized that it was different and easier to read when I posted in a thread before. After the post though, i noticed the font changing back and forth, what’s up with that? 🙂

rogerknights
August 27, 2014 5:16 pm

If you want, you can be notified of new comments via email, simply by checking the box on the comment submission form where I highlighted in yellow:

But that provides notification of ALL comments. WP should have a box that reads, “Notify me of replies to my comment (or to replies in this comment-level, if the comment is at the lowest (3rd) level).

Editor
Reply to  rogerknights
August 27, 2014 10:55 pm

Click on reply, note box labeled “Notify me of follow-up comments via email.” I set up one, not sure it took. At least I didn’t get a flood of Email.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Ric Werme
August 28, 2014 5:04 am

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/08/27/status-report-on-changes-to-wuwt-with-user-poll/#comment-1720377
======================================================================
Not a reply. Just testing to see if “copy link location” still works and what it looks like in the new format.

tz
August 27, 2014 5:29 pm

Now if you can only fix the RSS or add a full article feed to the teaser feed that only has enough words to maybe introduce the author and some irrelevant metadata or social …

AlexS
August 27, 2014 5:37 pm

I have checked i hate it. But i don’t hate it.
I just think it is heavier overall.
The comments are much more difficult to read. Now instead of a commenter text we have commenter name with such a big black characters that makes more difficult to read the text.
In the past i just speed read the comments and only if i wanted to know who wrote it i would look up to the person name . Now it is in my face.
P.S:The Poll shouldn’t use heavy loaded expressions if it is to have some value.

Eugene WR Gallun
August 27, 2014 5:40 pm

As far as I can tell all the changes are for the better. I like the look of everything and how the articles are presented. You have kept the good and added good to it. Good on you.
Eugene WR Gallun

rogerknights
August 27, 2014 5:50 pm

I wish the Recent Posts list were higher in the sidebar, or that there were some quick way to get to it.

Barbara Skolaut
August 27, 2014 5:52 pm

Didn’t vote, since you don’t have the choice “It’s your blog and you can do what you want with it; I’ll still come by each day.”
Thanks for all you do, Anthony (and mods). WUWT is a breath of fresh air in a morass of idiocy. Please keep it up.

Keith A. Nonemaker
August 27, 2014 5:57 pm

Please consider using Verdana as the default font. It scales better than any other, which is helpful to vision-impaired readers like myself.

JFD
August 27, 2014 6:04 pm

Blue font is hard to read. To me, it is a question of functionality over aesthetics. I read to the end of an article early in the morning then make a pencil note of the time at the end. In mid afternoon, I take a break then scroll down to my noted time and read to the bottom again. Nesting comments does not allow this to happen. My mind is still good enough to remember the original comments and tie the follow ups to the original comment(s). I had to switch to gmail, the first thing I did with my inbox was to eliminate nesting. I offer this as support for my blue font comment:
start paste
9. Using colored text Black fonts are the easiest to read, while colored typography is not recommended for body text because it can cause readability issues. Dark blue and dark green fonts are a little easier to read then others, but it’s generally best to stick to black for large paragraphs. Rather, color fonts should be used sparingly to create a sense of drama by highlighting certain words, drawing attention to your logo or creating eye-catching headlines.
end paste
As I have said many times Anthony, thank you for all of your good, hard work in the past 7 years that I have been reading WUWT.

Robert in Calgary
August 27, 2014 6:09 pm

Anthony,
I picked unsure at this point.
Good – I’m back to reading at the default size. Very nice.
Bad – nesting, hate it. Others have laid out good points for that view.
Unsure – in my usual visits to WUWT, comment count and recent comments are my two main resources. If the count is currently unavailable as it was, are you willing to bump up the recent comments widget a few spots?
Thanks,

CRS, DrPH
August 27, 2014 6:12 pm

I love the photo in the header! It reminds me of this lesson I learned a little while ago:
The Earth’s atmosphere is an extremely thin sheet of air extending from the surface of the Earth to the edge of space. The Earth is a sphere with a roughly 8000 mile diameter; the thickness of the atmosphere is about 60 miles. If the Earth were the size of a basketball, the thickness of the atmosphere could be
modeled by a thin sheet of plastic wrapped around the ball.
https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/atmosphere.html

Ha ha ha ha ha ha hmm
August 27, 2014 6:20 pm

My opinion, this new format is as painful as watching the Weather Channel.

wayne
August 27, 2014 6:24 pm

Finally found a combo that works for me at least for right now… turn off all styling through the browser and now the type is large and readable, comments are actually numbered with sub-comments coming underneath each, but hard to find extraneous side-bar information and the comment edit control is so tiny but paste-able from an external text editor with spelling checking I generally use.
A WordPress level typeface selection would be so great (A-largest, A-large, A-normal type of control), it’s nearly mandatory for us aging scientists that remember science before AGWese. Nesting has its plus and minuses but in general it would be perfect if there were some supported way but via RSS to tell the actual flow sequence of comments.
I don’t mind the style per se, it is classier, but it seems so much of the functionality/type-size has changed that is making your site much harder to read and use for those of us that prefer to follow and read ALL comments and their logical flow. Some people will say nesting helps there and I agree when reading old, static threads but on a developing thread you have no way to tell where the new comments are being placed.
And BTW, I find no way to “vote”.

dmacleo
August 27, 2014 6:26 pm

haven’t used it enough to say I love it (so I left poll unanswered) but I will say so far I like it.
looking good.
WP doesn’t allow editing on non-$$$ plans because it is sql heavy especially if you track edits.
but I never understood why they blocked other commenting script integration (disqus/livefrye) as that would actually be less of an sql load on them.

johanna
August 27, 2014 6:45 pm

First kudos to Anthony for all the work you put into this site – have a big party when you hit 200 million views!
Overall, the new look is clean and modern, and the extra features will be welcomed by many. But, I voted “not sure” because:
1. Minor niggle – not displaying the author’s name on the homepage. Those of us who are time-poor sometimes have to decide quickly whether or not to read something, and knowing the author helps. If I see “Jim Steele”, I’m there, no matter what he is writing about. Others, not so much. 🙂
2. While the typeface is OK, the old one was easier to read for those of us with less than perfect eyesight. If you keep this one, darkening it a bit more would help. Getting rid of the shading was definitely an improvement – thanks for that!
3. I’m with Latimer, A D Everard and others about nesting. Again, those of us who are time poor (or just trying to avoid multiple clicks every time we return to a thread) find nesting a pain in the rear. I don’t visit Judy Curry’s and Jo Nova’s as often as I would like because of it. I usually wait until a thread has been up for a few days before I start reading.
It does encourage endless, repetitious flame wars from a few noisy and boring usual suspects. It doesn’t matter on a site with few comments, but when there are a hundred or more it becomes a deterrent to participation. But, as you have said, let’s see how it goes.
Thanks again to the boss, the mods and elves for a wonderful resource.

DaveW
Reply to  johanna
August 27, 2014 10:22 pm

If I understand you correctly on #3, I think the solution would be nested sets that could either be displayed or hidden (with the number of sub-comments listed, so you’d have an idea of what you might be bypassing). The only problem I have with the Curry and Nova comments is that I still have to scroll past a lot of dreck to see if something new and interesting has been added.
With replies to particular posts nested and hidden unless opened you could scroll through the set of sets of comments more quickly and open sub-threads when you were interested in the argument first displayed. It might also discourage some of the exhibitionists that need to see their names and drivel on display and allow for the development of more reasoned discussions within sub-threads. Seems more likely to keep the main thread on topic but still allow for the development of sideline discussions. One could always post both within a subthread and in the main thread.

Brian
August 27, 2014 7:05 pm

Format away Anthony!
I know what effort is involved with catering to the masses. The current theme is an improvement IMHO. I have some issues with formatting, readability, etc… with every blog site I visit. Whether this is due to my choices of browsers, add-in’s, extensions, or OS’s I use or the site; I dunno. I do know that you listen to your visitors, and promptly address known issues. If I have any issues that prevent me from being able to connect and consume your content or quickly prove/disprove datum on your excellent reference pages, I’ll let you know. I consider this site to be a bridge between science and understanding. As I tread upon it, I keep in mind that I have to:
A) Watch my step
B) Expect construction every so often
C) Adjust to prevailing conditions
D) Be on the lookout for trolls
Thanks for doing all that you do.
~ Brian

August 27, 2014 7:09 pm

It looks the same through RSS, and that’s just fine with me.

August 27, 2014 7:19 pm

The new format seems okay. Some WordPress Themes look downright appalling to me, but this one seems reasonable. Ironically, WUWT was one of the blogs I looked at a lot when choosing to use Twenty-Ten for my own blog. Twenty-Ten may be showing it’s age, but it’s nice and simple, and the readability is pretty good.
On #2 … I would not poo-poo WUWT looking like a blog too much. It is a blog, after all, and some people prefer a simpler layout. But you know …. consider DrudgeReport — It looks like absolute crap, but that doesn’t seem to stymie the traffic. 😛

Tom in Florida
August 27, 2014 7:25 pm

davidmhoffer
August 27, 2014 at 5:03 pm
‘replies/nesting
There are multiple reasons why I detest this feature, even though I understand why some people like it. But my biggest issue is that I tend to read to the bottom of a thread, and a few hours later come back and refresh the window to what new comments there are. Since “replies” show up as new comments, the window will refresh at the first “reply” that I have not yet seen, which may be at the beginning of the thread, or somewhere in the middle, etc. Problem being that this leaves me scrolling from THAT comment, through all the stuff I have already seen, to try and find the stuff I haven’t. It is one thing to read the replies that already exist, quite another to return to a thread and try and make sense of what is new and what isn’t.’
———————————————————————————————————————–
I agree 100%. Now, what is going to happen on a solar thread when Leif answers each person by the reply button? To keep up with all of his new comments and rebuttals we are going to have to go back to each original comment and scroll through those replies, then repeat the process with each person he is dealing with. I like the way Leif does it now, show the statements he wants to comment on and his answers all in one post. Easy to read, easy to follow, no jumping around, no missing anything.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Tom in Florida
August 27, 2014 8:07 pm

I just wish Leif would learn how to properly blockquote. It aint rocket surgery.

rogerknights
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
August 28, 2014 9:17 am

That’s something I’ve wanted to say for a long time. I even went to his site to find an e-mail address I could send him my opinion, but I couldn’t find one.

kadaka (KD Knoebel)
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
August 29, 2014 1:09 am

rogerknights said on August 28, 2014 at 9:17 am:

That’s something I’ve wanted to say for a long time. I even went to his site to find an e-mail address I could send him my opinion, but I couldn’t find one.

http://leif.org/
It’s right there on the home page, in the center in plain view, leif at leif dot org.
*head-desk*

jdgalt
August 27, 2014 7:32 pm

The multi-column format does nothing for me; if I want to view other stories I go to the home page. Fortunately the RSS feed is still sequential. It would be even better if RSS feed items contained the whole post instead of just a half-line teaser.
I’m not sure yet if threading the comments was an improvement or not. The ability to switch between threaded and sequential would be really useful.
The ability to vote comments up/down would be nice. But I’m glad you haven’t gone with Disqus because of its requirement that I manually find and hit a “Load more comments” button, over and over again, before all the posts are visible to my browser and I can search them with ctrl-F. Keep them all in one big page, please!
It does seem odd that we’re allowed to use Gravatar.com to log in, but our gravatars are never shown.

jdgalt
Reply to  jdgalt
August 28, 2014 9:10 pm

PS. I just noticed, and find quite annoying, that posts no longer have links to the previous and next post (thus allowing easy sequential reading). Please bring them back, if not at the top then at the bottom.

mountainape5
August 27, 2014 7:42 pm

Create a new custom blog, this one is old and bad in everything (design, speed, etc). Host the new one yourself on a cloud server.

Jeff Alberts
August 27, 2014 8:04 pm

My thoughts, if anyone cares:
– I use an RSS reader (Feedly, since Google Reader went away). I rarely visit the WUWT home page, so I really have no opinion of it.
– Nested comments: Don’t care for them. As others have mentioned, you’d have to re-read an entire thread each time you come back to it in order to see new comments which are replies to others. I don’t like it on CA either. Rarely go to Jo Nova’s, but wouldn’t like it there for the same reasons. My typical WUWT experience is as follows: See new stories in RSS reader, read teaser, click through to WUWT if I;m interested, read the story, read comments if story is interesting, maybe comment, maybe not, but will keep the tab open on my browser for a couple days as I follow new comments from where I left off. Can’t do that effectively with nested. I tried using email notification, but quickly tired of constant email notifications while at work and unable to follow up. Once I’d get home I’d have to still try and figure out what was new. That lasted for about a week before I was sick of it. And if you’re following 10 stories? Can you say insanity?
What would be more effective, IMHO, is a reply button which jumps you down to the “leave a reply” box, automatically placing the comment you’re replying to inside blockquote tags. It’s then a simple matter to delete the parts of the comment you don’t need to duplicate, and add your reply below. Unfortunately that also requires some programming, javascript at the least.
Of course I can muddle through, but my WUWT experience will be greatly reduced. Of course I don’t contribute much, if anything, of value here, so some may rejoice. 😉

Robert in Calgary
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
August 27, 2014 8:25 pm

“What would be more effective, IMHO, is a reply button which jumps you down to the “leave a reply” box, automatically placing the comment you’re replying to inside blockquote tags. It’s then a simple matter to delete the parts of the comment you don’t need to duplicate, and add your reply below. Unfortunately that also requires some programming, javascript at the least.”
Now that would be very sweet. Very big time for the “most read resource it has become” 🙂

rogerknights
Reply to  Robert in Calgary
August 28, 2014 9:28 am

Amazon has a very slick setup, whereby Replies are put at the end, but there are links back and forth, and there is a thumbnail of the comment if you hover over the reply. (Or something like that. Anyway, it’s worth copying, if possible.)

August 27, 2014 8:08 pm

All great, a big improvement. A pity the Read More link has gone, but it’s not a big issue.
And mountainape5, what a useless comment! Be helpful when people ask for help.

davidmhoffer
August 27, 2014 8:23 pm

Zeke August 27, 2014 at 7:30 pm
Try clicking on the date and time of the last comment you read.
Then, when you refresh, you will remain on that comment number.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In which case, I would have missed any replies to comments that I was interested in….
D***ed if you do and d***ed if you don’t….

August 27, 2014 8:24 pm

I love everything except nested comments. But that speaks about me more than it does the blog. It makes it seem like the entire room is talking at the same time and the noise overwhelms me. Plus I can’t track with the hard turns and tangents away from the thread topic that nesting ends up encouraging.
So I use the search function (control F) to scan for certain names and topic words, and just don’t read most of the comments. Sorry about that but it is the best I can do to cope with nesting.

August 27, 2014 8:45 pm

I like everything about the new format. Nesting is fine with me. I treat it just like I treat trolls / non-contributors, I have them pretty much figured out and skip the dreck.
I can get through even a fairly long thread in 5 – 10 minutes by speed-reading so maybe it’s me; but I like nesting due to the immediacy of response. But it can get stupid and deep leveled so I just fast-forward. It really depends on the topic for me though. Some I will pick our every word, others, I’ll just scan.
But even more important than the newness of the format, Anthony I really appreciate how you are always open to trying new things and welcoming innovation. It keeps things exciting – even inspiring.
Great blog.

August 27, 2014 9:02 pm

What I love most is having more topics on the page without having to search through previous post pages. I usually follow several posts for quite some time so the new format makes it better for this Anthony groupie.

August 27, 2014 9:05 pm

oops. I typed your name instead of Anth*********. The moderation filter still catches that one I see. There is something just not right about having your name in the list of bad words to say. Just not right. LOL!

Robert in Calgary
August 27, 2014 9:12 pm

To follow up on a point that’s been made by several folks.
I also don’t go to Climate Etc. or Jo Nova’s all that often.
At Judith’s, the nesting and alarmist trolls are factors. At Jo’s, it’s the nesting.
When I do visit Judith’s and Jo’s, I typically read a thread only the only time.
Here at WUWT, the linear method made following a thread enjoyable.

August 27, 2014 10:13 pm

Latitude
August 27, 2014 at 4:14 pm
…Thanks, you said it much better….
Exactly what is wrong, or time consuming about replying to someone this way? copy..paste..and answer
*
Totally agree, Latitude, it was no trouble keeping up with what everyone was talking about or responding to, and easy to mark where we were at and come back to it.
I just tried the email thing, and got 51 emails just for this thread in a matter of hours, each with a comment, true, but they are there, not here and don’t flow at all – If I got emails with all threads I’m interested in, I’d be snowed under, they’d be jumbled together and I’d have hundreds a day to open before I could read on. So, no, it doesn’t work without a lot of hassle.
Like you, I shall miss out. We won’t be the only ones.
I also suspect the trolls will be very quick to realize they can fill up the top section of the comments with their rubbish and force readers to wade through their lot before they reach the proper dialogue. I’ve noticed some of that at Judith Curry’s already. After all, the specialty of trolls is derailment. They’ll have open go and nothing to stop them.
So, hey, things might turn around again. 🙂
By the way, Anthony – or moderator – I’m still being held up in moderation every time (I’m referring to a reply to Zeke, Aug 27th 9:50 pm where I did not mention your name or anything that should trigger moderation). I do run a WordPress blog, is that the cause of it?

rogerknights
Reply to  A.D. Everard
August 28, 2014 9:32 am

I also suspect the trolls will be very quick to realize they can fill up the top section of the comments with their rubbish and force readers to wade through their lot before they reach the proper dialogue. I’ve noticed some of that at Judith Curry’s already. After all, the specialty of trolls is derailment. They’ll have open go and nothing to stop them.

That’s because there are no moderators on JC’s site, unlike here. And she virtually never bans anyone.

Reply to  rogerknights
August 28, 2014 12:25 pm

The trolls come in here, too, though. They are well known for trying to set the thread in new directions or attempting to ruffle feathers. Not that I mind, I find it entertaining and the quality of replies to them is excellent. I’m just pointing out that they will all group at the gate, so to speak. The old way at least forced them into order of appearance.

jimmyjoe
August 27, 2014 10:40 pm

One thing that I hope can be brought back is that once a post is read, its headline in the “recent posts” section is grayed (or some other color) out, so that I know which posts I have read before. Memory ain’t what it used to be.

rogerknights
Reply to  jimmyjoe
August 28, 2014 9:36 am

Alternatively, the New entries could be highlighted somehow (fewer changes to the text would be needed that way). This is THE solution to the objectionable aspect of nested comments, so it’s amazing that it hasn’t been “addressed.”

rogerknights
Reply to  rogerknights
August 28, 2014 9:39 am

Oops–I misread you comment as referring to marking individual comments as read or not read. But I agree that clicked-on threads in the Recent Posts list should change color.

redc1c4
August 28, 2014 12:34 am

i don’t understand why any changes were made at all: the format was settled for years and 97% of the readers agreed with that.
🙂

Latitude
Reply to  redc1c4
August 28, 2014 6:42 am

because it’s human nature to muck with it when you have a good thing going….. 😉

Latitude
Reply to  Latitude
August 28, 2014 8:24 am

I only have 1 dislike …and that’s the nested threaded posts….so it’s my dislike of the one thing no ‘s on the end
…the rest of it is working great….so far!
Let’s see, something constructive…..ok, got it….you’re not near as grouchy right now as I thought you would be
😀

Mr Green Genes
August 28, 2014 1:42 am

I like the blockquote thing, although maybe the font could be a notch smaller.
As for nesting or otherwise, there are pros and cons for each. Linear posts would be fine, but only if everyone who posted a response to a comment upthread included a reference. Courtney snr. is excellent for this and it makes his replies easy to comprehend. Unfortunately, a lot of others don’t; until we’re all up to Richard’s standard, nesting will make things simpler. The downside is, of course, that it’s much more difficult to pick up from the last post read, when coming back after a time-out. I gather from something our host said that switching from one to the other as a user option isn’t possible so, on balance, I’m willing to give nesting a chance.
There is one enhancement I’d like to see and that is a ‘Preview’ option. For those of us who are occasional posters, some of the formatting codes are a b!tch to remember and to get right whilst in the throes of composition and errors do creep in.
All in all though the new look is good and only serves to enhance the quality of the content.

NZ Willy
August 28, 2014 2:12 am

Fonts need work, they’re too big all around. Makes this site look like a “Jayvee” site (now where have I heard that word?). Simple to solve — find a favorite website with relaxing easy to read smaller font, and use that.

Greg
Reply to  NZ Willy
August 28, 2014 3:39 am

Second that !
Anthony, I came back to this thread to make just this point. I have no strong opinions on the other changes but I really dislike the ‘in your face’ fonts that are used for most of the article text. I feel like I’m being shouted at.
Too big, too bold.
I’m guessing that this has been made bigger because it is a serif family font that does not display too well at small point sizes. Probably also the reason for using a bold version of the font. Even at bigger, bolder settings I find harder to read. It is actually quite obstructive.
I imagine this will be even more of a problem on a lot of hand-held devices.
The font that I get in this box for entering a reply is a nice, simple clear font (Vandana?).
I would suggest using this or a similar Sans-serif font for the main text or articles and comments.

Greg
Reply to  Greg
August 28, 2014 10:40 am

Thanks for the reply Anthony.
Correct about the monitor size but this is a comment relative to recent changes, I’ve been a daily visiter here for a number of years (with same monitor and other equiptment ) and have found the previously used fonts to be much more readable.
Verdana was designed specially for relatively low res devices like computer monitors as opposed to printers with much higher precision that handle serif fonts well.
Serif fonts require high res to work well. I imagine they look nice on an Apple retina display but not so much on most hand held devices or 1024×768 monitors.
Yes, I can scale down to get smaller fonts but this just exaggerates the problems of rendering serif fonts and it gets very hard to read.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Greg
August 28, 2014 5:37 pm

I’m on a 1080 monitor, and the font as of this comment is a perfect size. The font after the initial change was too small. This one is the goldilocks font.

Bill Jamison
August 28, 2014 3:14 am

While I really like the new format I think you need to adopt a standard format for the content. Here’s a current example:
Climate Alarmism: When Is This Bozo Going Down? By Patrick J. Michaels and Paul C. “Chip” Knappenberger Climate alarmism is like one of those pop-up Bozos.
With the synopsis running together it can be hard to tell what part is story and what part is headline, etc. A standard clear format should be adopted so it’s easy to understand the synopsis without having to try to decipher the run on sentences:
Climate Alarmism: When Is This Bozo Going Down?
By Patrick J. Michaels and Paul C. “Chip” Knappenberger
Climate alarmism is like one of those pop-up Bozos.

steveta_uk
August 28, 2014 3:20 am

If it isn’t possible to add additional “next” and “prev” links, as an alternative is it possible to insert an HTML tag at the link locations, and add a “goto links” button at the head and tail of the posts?

Paul Coppin
August 28, 2014 4:22 am

Yeah, still don’t like the nested comments, like listening to 6 conversations at once. In this thread alone, I gave up paying any attention to the discussion about a 1/3 of the way down. Maybe that’s a good thing – I’ll get a couple of hours back a day by reading the articles, ignoring the comments and moving on. Unless you’re making money off the ads – have a look at their placement – one of the biggest killers of attention is trying to pick the good stuff out of the dreck – this format can look like an “entertainment” blog really quick.
After looking at it for a couple of days, personally, I’m not a fan of the magazine format – it tends to turn WUWT into a tabloid, and nothing destroys a site credibity with smart thinkers than the appearance that it wants to be the Daily Mail. The essence (and importance) of WUWT isn’t specifically the articles (the content is available all over the web, sometimes days earlier) its the discussion about the content that makes this site. Personally, I think this format trivializes the commentary and is considerably over-styled. All of that b*tching done, I also know much work is involved in getting a WP format to work well and look good and represent your “brand”, so take the comments with a grain of salt.

Chris Schoneveld
August 28, 2014 4:47 am

A lot of space is lost by indenting the text of the first comment. This is unnecessary because the commenter’s name is in bold type and clearly separated from the text. That the replies are progressively indented is of course necessary. On IPads and iPhones space is precious and should not be compromised by estatic considerations.

Tom in Florida
August 28, 2014 4:59 am

One of the great things about WUWT is the calling out of incorrect information by those that have a better understanding of a subject. It is a great way for many of us to learn new things and unlearn things we get wrong. The old comment style made it easy to do this. One could scan through all the new comments very quickly and read things that catch your attention. Sometimes it may be something you weren’t even thinking about but is contrary to your knowledge . It was also easier to scroll down and find certain people whom I always read, i.e: Dr Brown at Duke, Leif, Pamela Grey, Nick Stokes and yes even Mosher, to name just a few. Usually one of those comments will get me interested in that particular discussion. Nesting comments does not allow me to do this very easily and even finding those comments can be time consuming.

Harry Passfield
August 28, 2014 5:15 am

OK, I’m going to bang on about my pet peeve: constant finger scrolling to get to bottom or top of long lists of comments when on a tablet.
May I suggest inserting “##top” and “##bot” at top and bottom of pages (or whatever you please) so that I can issue a ‘Find in page’ to get to where ever.
BTW: I do know I can do a find on ‘leave a reply’ or ‘home’ but both can appear in text so don’t go straight to top/bottom. The special chars help.

dmacleo
August 28, 2014 5:55 am

I have bad eyes and the fonts are EASY for me to read, and while not a huge fan of nested comments I feel you have struck a good balance.
you cannot please everyone, best you can do is only upset 50% of them.
IMO you got it right here.

NZ Willy
Reply to  Anthony Watts
August 28, 2014 7:33 am

The problem is that CTRL +/- adjusts the display size but the page width shrinks or grows and the sentences don’t re-wrap. So when reducing the display size I get empty space at left & right. On other sites, when you use CTRL +/-, the page width continues to fil the screen and the sentences re-wrap to give more text on screen — which is how html is designed to work.

Editor
Reply to  NZ Willy
August 28, 2014 9:12 am

Its called ‘white space’ and in most publications its considered classy. The more cluttered a publication or web site, the more downmarket it generally feels.
tonyb

Tom O
Reply to  Anthony Watts
August 28, 2014 7:34 am

I agree, Anthony, it IS easier to complain. I’d rather the content, too, so do what you got to do.

rogerknights
Reply to  Anthony Watts
August 28, 2014 9:51 am

“I’m limited to about three dozen that have been preselected for me.You can see them in this image, with fonts I can choose on the right.”
I see a list that shows fonts beginning with the letters A-F. I couldn’t scroll it down to see if Georgia is available. I read one book that recommended using it in place of Times New Roman on account of its better readability and its equal pervasiveness. It’s what I use in my Word documents.

Espen
August 28, 2014 7:23 am

What I like: The new front page – well done!
What I don’t like: The choice of fonts
What I’m not sure of: Whether the mobile site really is any better

Tom O
August 28, 2014 7:32 am

I like the threaded posts concept. I sometimes enjoy looking at comments made as replies to what I consider a dumb post – many of Mosher’s come to mind. It is better to have all the bricks lined up than scattered throughout the comments. Thanks again.

Dave Etchells
August 28, 2014 7:53 am

tl;dr, so apologies if this has already been said. I like the new design a lot, and am happy many issues have been addressed, but find the body text rather hard to read. It could just be my old eyes & declining mental powers, but I think slightly more leading (vertical space) between lines would help a great deal.
BTW, I don’t know if I’ve ever said it explicitly, but thank you *SO* much for the time, effort, and dedication you (and all your volunteers) put into this site. It’s truly a unique and incredibly valuable resource, globally important, and I think having a global effect. Thanks again.

Steve P
August 28, 2014 8:30 am

In my comment above, August 27, 2014 at 4:33 pm, I used the term column width when I should have written line length, i.e; the number of characters per line, or CPL.
Typographic style guides usually recommend about 60 cpl for best legibility. In its current incarnation, WUWT comments reach to over 80 cpl, while the Leave a Reply input box runs to over 100 cpl.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characters_per_line
I also used the word font where I should have used typeface. As typographers, graphic artists, and a few pedants know, a font is a subset of a typeface. Helvetica is a typeface, while Helvetica 14 point bold is a font.
I prefer Helvetica for legibility. It is easier on the eyes than Times Roman, or most other serif typefaces.
I also, correctly, used the graphic arts’ term Horsey to describe the appearance of the blockquotes, which are in a different typeface from the body text, and are both bolder, and larger; hence, horsey.
I suggest that blockquotes should use the italic font of the body text typeface, in the same point size.
Another dimension in typesetting is leading or the space between successive lines of type. This morning, the comment text appears much denser, as if the leading has been reduced significantly. Too dense, imo. Main article leading looks fine.
In looking to grab the date & time of my earlier post, I was startled to see many new comments littered throughout the comment thread, and I can see it will be a chore to scroll through the entire thread again to read the latest comments/replies.
Even with the linear format, disputes have arisen about what was said, read, or understood, which are a function of human nature, and not of WUWT’s format. The nested comments will only add to the babble, I fear.
And to echo what others have said, above: it is the content here that is the most important thing. Where the host gets the energy to fiddle with the CSS is beyond me, but obviously, there are some savvy hands in the wheelhouse, and many contented readers here.

rogerknights
Reply to  Steve P
August 28, 2014 9:55 am

“I suggest that blockquotes should use the italic font of the body text typeface, in the same point size.”
I agree.

August 28, 2014 8:45 am

I like the new changes though I will have to see how the threaded comments evolves.
For myself, I find the threaded comments at Judith Curry’s site very difficult to read as there are always 20 similtaneous discussions going on without any quick visual way to scan and separate them. I always read comments at WUWT and almost never at Judy’s. Just my two cents.

Editor
Reply to  daviditron
August 28, 2014 9:14 am

davidtron
I agree with your comments about nesting, but at Climate Etc its easier to follow as generally there is a single article that is debated for several days. The likely problem here is that you have 20 simultaneous discussions in 5 or 6 threads that become impossible to follow due to the sheer number of articles presented each day..
tonyb

michael hart
August 28, 2014 8:57 am

I think one of the problems with Judith’s site is that the nesting encourages trolls and people who love the sight of their own comments without having to read down through other, possibly relevant, replies first.
I don’t think WUWT suffers from that problem significantly, but we’ll see how it goes.

Editor
Reply to  michael hart
August 28, 2014 9:09 am

Michael
I think that is an insightful comment, but having said that very many people here are guilty of not reading more than the first few comments-particularly in a long thread-before scrolling to the bottom and voicing their opinion.
tonyb

Gunga Din
Reply to  climatereason
August 28, 2014 9:45 am

I’m guilty of that at times. But sometimes I’d scroll down because I’d have to in order to “reply” to an earlier comment. I’d go back sometimes and find that someone else had already said the same thing.
That less likely to happen with this new format. +1 for nested comments.

ttfn
August 28, 2014 9:14 am

Very nice look. I like most everything but the nesting of comments. I have no problem with the concept, just wordpress’s implementation; eg no sorting of active threads, too much indent causing web masters to limit depth to a couple levels meaning you’re back to where you started after a reply to a reply except now you’re reading down more than left to right. You may as well give stokes’ comments their own page. I think you should wait till they fix it, but I’ll live with whatever you decide. Thanks for all you do.

Alan Robertson
August 28, 2014 9:35 am

To our gracious host:
Thank you so much for everything you have done with WUWT.
Your efforts have a huge impact in many areas, not just science, education and politics.
Truth will set us free.
Your work benefits all of mankind.

August 28, 2014 9:44 am

Alan perfectly expressed my thoughts. Thanks for everything, Anthony.

August 28, 2014 10:02 am

The WUWT top graphic used to have a small list of general items and topics which the blog addressed. How did it go?
“Commentary on puzzling things in life, nature, science, weather, climate change, technology, and recent events by AW.”
Has there been any change in the topics and goals of the site, or is this description just tucked in somewhere else?

Reply to  Zeke
August 30, 2014 2:01 pm

“Commentary on puzzling things in life, nature, science, weather, climate change, technology, and recent events by AW.”

Okay, “Curious things” are still on the menu.
Curious things
Mystery of the sailing stones of Death Valley solved – ‘climate change’ immediately blamed for no good reason
That’s good.

greymouser70
August 28, 2014 10:29 am

Anthony: I’m not sure if it’s a browser issue or not, but from the home page I only see eleven (11) stories and then the rest of the scroll down is blank except for the side bar. Can you check this? Thanks

dmacleo
Reply to  greymouser70
August 28, 2014 10:50 am

refresh page, what should happen as you scroll down into that white space the older articles appear. they do not preload, its a progressive page load setup from the looks of it.
I see a lot of articles.
now internet explorer has been known to have issues with it especially IE8 but IE10 and up should be ok.

Reply to  dmacleo
August 28, 2014 7:11 pm

And look, you can change the page in the address bar…
http://wattsupwiththat.com/page/1000/
I picked page one thousand and got this story from 2011, with the Wivenhoe Dam scandal. Ah I have only to scroll down and look at this or that, to flood my soul with memories…
Model trumps observation – dam operator caught in fabrication
From Operator of dam ‘invented’ rain data Hedley Thomas, National chief correspondent March 26, 2011 12:00AM EXTREME rainfall so rare it happens on average once every 2000 years has been “invented” by the government operator of a major Queensland dam as part of its explanation for releasing huge volumes of water that caused most of…

Gilbert K.. Arnold
Reply to  dmacleo
August 29, 2014 7:36 am

Even after refreshing the page, it still doesn’t work. It seems to work fine in IE. But I use Firefox almost exclusively unless some site absolutely refuses to work in Firefox.

Reply to  greymouser70
August 28, 2014 11:40 am

Infinite Scroll takes a while to populate, as dmacleo said.
I took around two minutes to get to May of 2014. You will notice in the address bar that these are pages:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/page/95/

August 28, 2014 11:17 am

I’m perfectly happy with the changes. Thank you!
Auto

Greg R
August 28, 2014 11:23 am

“Infinite scroll” on the main page is nice. Could you use the same approach on individual articles, so that comments get downloaded just in time? You would need to move this “Leave a reply” stuff up to the top of comments. But it could spare weak connections a lot of wasted download.

carlbrannen
August 28, 2014 11:37 am

I only catch up perhaps every week or two. It’s hard to remember which articles I’ve read and which I’ve not, given that a lot of it gets repeated in other venues, but abbreviated. So I use the change in color of the “read more” link to tell me when I’ve caught up. But now that doesn’t work.
Ideal would be to let me know that I’ve explored an article before by changing the color of the title.

David A. Evans
Reply to  carlbrannen
August 28, 2014 1:48 pm

I liked that too!
DaveE.

Doc Tor
August 28, 2014 12:05 pm

Have only tried the new format on my iPad so far. Greatly improved readability. Thanks!

David A. Evans
August 28, 2014 1:46 pm

Hate it!
It’s even slower than Farcebook now and I thought that was pedestrian!
DaveE.

Steve P
Reply to  David A. Evans
August 28, 2014 2:02 pm

You may be right about F-book, but pedestrian does not mean slow; it means dull or uninspired.

Captain Dave
August 28, 2014 2:26 pm

moderator or webmaster
Minor currency issue – under Humor/Satire, Daily Bayonet is listed. That site has not had any new content added for over two years.

johanna
August 28, 2014 5:16 pm

I see that as per my request way above, the authors’ names are now included in the lead-in to articles on the homepage. No name means it’s an AW piece.
Thanks!

August 28, 2014 6:22 pm

Really improves the readability.

Ben
August 28, 2014 8:39 pm

Anthony – Still reviewing your changes. The first impression is that you’ve made some outstanding decisions, to make the site appear more professional. Plus as you’ve mentioned, it should improve the efficiency for your mods’ control of spam. ‘Tis a good thing.
One thing you might want to review is the WUWT logo at the top of the page. The new overall header look is fine. It’s a matter of personal choice, to some extent. However, if you can, would like to see you adjust the fade characteristic of the letters WUWT, so that they don’t go to black, where the top edges of the letters are not very visible. Hopefully that point is written so you understand the point I’m trying to make.
Given the choice, would much rather see the full letters without the fade. Or, create a decreased vertical fade, such that the full letters are clearly visible. This is your primary logo for the public. Be proud of it and allow it to be fully seen. Nothing wrong with some kind of fade, but it looks like the top of the letters are being lost in a shadow at the top of the screen… or some such thing.
Your mileage may vary. However, I think the site will look more professional, if you allow the WUWT letters to be more clearly and boldly seen on your page.
Congratulations on your outstanding site. The data, studies and articles you have provided have an enormous reach, as individuals share what they’ve learned. Well done sir!

Werner Brozek
August 28, 2014 9:09 pm

Everything is great in my opinion except for the nesting. I agree with other people who do not like it. However I just had a slightly different experience on another thread. It now has 340 comments so I did not count how many times “SonicsGuy” responded. At any rate, I responded to a criticism he had of me at 9:05 AM. After a number of comments down, he again repeated his criticism of me at 9:39 AM and it was obvious he did not read my earlier nested reply. However with all of his dozens of posts in my estimation, he would have had to read potential replies to all previous posts to see if any were answered before posting something new. But without nesting, he just has to go to his last read post before resuming it.
For me, I had to take the time to check both of my entries and the latest one to keep updated. Of course it is no big deal to check on two entries, but if I had ten entries on ten different posts, that would be 100 clicks instead of 10 when resuming my WUWT reading. And I still could miss something interesting on a different reply where I had no input.

August 28, 2014 9:36 pm

I agree with Werner’s comments. Everything is excellent, except for the nesting replies. The old way was better.

Robert in Calgary
August 29, 2014 6:23 am

I truly hate nesting. If it stays, I’ll have to make a radical change and only come here once or twice on the weekend.
Nesting ruins my enjoyment of WUWT.

Editor
August 29, 2014 7:43 am

Having tried it for a few days I must agree that the only thing I still dislike about the new format remains the nesting.
When there are so many stories each day and each might retain interest for 4 or 5 days, the number of potential conversations you might wish to follow becomes far too many to make it feasible.
The linear thread system works well on a high volume of articles/high volume of comments blog such as this one.
tonyb

M Courtney
Reply to  tonyb
August 29, 2014 7:54 am

I’ve held off speaking for a day or two to giver it a go.
But I concur. The nesting isn’t easy to work with.
Love the design changes though.

Robert in Calgary
August 29, 2014 7:53 am

Anthony,
tonyb sums it up in one sentence.
“The linear thread system works well on a high volume of articles/high volume of comments blog such as this one.”
Here, nesting is a huge negative. It adds nothing positive. If your goal is to “up the game” at WUWT, Jeff Alberts laid out the path to follow.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/08/27/status-report-on-changes-to-wuwt-with-user-poll/#comment-1720283
“What would be more effective, IMHO, is a reply button which jumps you down to the “leave a reply” box, automatically placing the comment you’re replying to inside blockquote tags. It’s then a simple matter to delete the parts of the comment you don’t need to duplicate, and add your reply below. Unfortunately that also requires some programming, javascript at the least.”
This method is in use at the Skyscraperpage forums where I follow some Calgary and Vancouver topics.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/
With that, I’m off to work.
regards,

johanna
Reply to  Anthony Watts
August 29, 2014 4:39 pm

” And, BTW climate audit has threaded comments, but for some reason I don’t see people complaining about it there. I’m not sure why.”
It’s manageable at CA because the number of head posts and volume of comments is much lower than here (although it’s still irritating).
I go to CA maybe every 2-3 days to see if anything new has been put up, and for threads that I’m interested in, I skim through all the comments each time to see if there are any new ones in the body of the thread.But that’s not feasible for this site – to keep up I check in almost every day and there are usually several topics on the boil that I like to follow. Under the old system, I would just keep the tabs for those threads open and read new comments by doing a page refresh.
Anyway, I’m happy to give it a go, but suspect that my visits will be fewer if nesting continues. I’ll only read threads after they are pretty much done and dusted WRT comments.

kadaka (KD Knoebel)
Reply to  Anthony Watts
August 29, 2014 4:39 pm

90% of the complaints about nested comments could be addressed with a fully functioning CA Assistant, which colors comments based on age and can hide old ones, etc.
Can you ask Mr. Pete if he could get CA Assistant fully functioning on this site?

August 29, 2014 10:51 am

@Steve P 8/28 8:30 am
In looking to grab the date & time of my earlier post, I was startled to see many new comments littered throughout the comment thread, and I can see it will be a chore to scroll through the entire thread again to read the latest comments/replies.
On the whole, I think the nesting is working well.
The social dynamic rule about nested replies is:
Do not expect your reply to be seen unless:
1. if the reply is within an hour of the parent comment, or
2. you are replying to the person who wrote the parent comment and they will see it only if your are lucky.
If you want your comment to be read by the general readership, then make it a level one reply with reference to poster, date and time like the old days.
Nesting is a tool. It is a new tool that doesn’t obsolete the old methods. Use the tool wisely.

Werner Brozek
Reply to  Stephen Rasey
August 29, 2014 11:23 am

Do not expect your reply to be seen unless:
1. if the reply is within an hour of the parent comment, or
2. you are replying to the person who wrote the parent comment and they will see it only if your are lucky.

I think you are on to something. So for example if someone in Britain says something while I am sleeping, and I do not see it until 4 hours later, then perhaps I should not reply via the reply button but at the bottom as before?
Perhaps we need to be educated as to how to make the best use of the reply feature. And we need to be aware of the fact that we do not always know the time zone or work schedule of participants so a lack of a prompt reply can readily be explained.

Steve P
Reply to  Stephen Rasey
August 29, 2014 11:50 am

Agreed. The host has requested we give it a try, and I’m interested to see what dynamic develops. I think your suggestions are good. One obvious utility to nested replies is the ability to add corrections, errata and such in closer proximity to the original, flawed comment.

August 29, 2014 11:44 am

@Werner 8/29 11:23 am,
A nested reply within an hour is probably going to be read in context of the parent comment. But if it is several hours later, then I would make a nested reply only if you expect it to be missed except by anyone anyone reading parent for the first time or perhaps the author of the parent.
Expect a nested reply to a 12 hour old comment to be mostly ignored, so use it for a focused purpose.
—–
Experiment: This started off as a nested reply to Werner’s. Then I hit the “Cancel Reply” box. The Edit box kept my text. And I think I can still hit the “Post Comment” button.
Let’s see…..